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Australia v Pakistan | 1st Test | Brisbane | Dec 15-19, 2016 | Pre-Match Thread

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[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] would insist Asif out of all 3 still.
 
Hamzakhalid said:
[MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] Bhai Rahat, Sohail or Imran?
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Rahat.

I know the batting would be marginally less weak with Sohail Khan, but the bottom line is 7 left-handed Aussie batsmen.

Only the left-armers can get them LBW. So I'd go Amir/Rahat/Wahab as my bowling attack, and yes, I know that's one dimensional.

But I wouldn't want a 4 man bowling attack. I'd want 2 all-rounders, Yasir Shah and 2 specialist quicks.

And tomorrow morning if I was Mickey Arthur I'd seriously consider pulling the surprise of the century and selecting the bowling coach, Azhar Mahmood. He is basically exactly what you want as your fifth bowler in a pink ball Test!
 
Junaids said:
Rahat.

I know the batting would be marginally less weak with Sohail Khan, but the bottom line is 7 left-handed Aussie batsmen.

Only the left-armers can get them LBW. So I'd go Amir/Rahat/Wahab as my bowling attack, and yes, I know that's one dimensional.

But I wouldn't want a 4 man bowling attack. I'd want 2 all-rounders, Yasir Shah and 2 specialist quicks.

And tomorrow morning if I was Mickey Arthur I'd seriously consider pulling the surprise of the century and selecting the bowling coach, Azhar Mahmood. He is basically exactly what you want as your fifth bowler in a pink ball Test!
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This is stuff of legend really

Hats off!
 
Just saw the pitch, it looks like it will be a low scoring unless the grass is shaved off.

Pakistan had 2 games against Kiwis on green mambas. I think pakistan bowlers will enjoy this green track more than aussies. Only 1 thing stops Pakistan from winning this series its their batting. If batting holds well and score 300 we have a great chance and we do have batting depth to do that. I would play rahah instead of wahab.
 
Junaids said:
Rahat.

I know the batting would be marginally less weak with Sohail Khan, but the bottom line is 7 left-handed Aussie batsmen.

Only the left-armers can get them LBW. So I'd go Amir/Rahat/Wahab as my bowling attack, and yes, I know that's one dimensional.

But I wouldn't want a 4 man bowling attack. I'd want 2 all-rounders, Yasir Shah and 2 specialist quicks.

And tomorrow morning if I was Mickey Arthur I'd seriously consider pulling the surprise of the century and selecting the bowling coach, Azhar Mahmood. He is basically exactly what you want as your fifth bowler in a pink ball Test!
Click to expand...

Same here. Think Rahat may have been giving Azhar and YK some nightmares with the pink ball in the nets
 
Either we will demolish the Aussies or get blown apart ourselves. There will be no in-between situation.
 
Junaids said:
Rahat.

I know the batting would be marginally less weak with Sohail Khan, but the bottom line is 7 left-handed Aussie batsmen.

Only the left-armers can get them LBW. So I'd go Amir/Rahat/Wahab as my bowling attack, and yes, I know that's one dimensional.

But I wouldn't want a 4 man bowling attack. I'd want 2 all-rounders, Yasir Shah and 2 specialist quicks.

And tomorrow morning if I was Mickey Arthur I'd seriously consider pulling the surprise of the century and selecting the bowling coach, Azhar Mahmood. He is basically exactly what you want as your fifth bowler in a pink ball Test!
Click to expand...

Junaids uncle was inching far too close to the cliff with each post, but now it seems he has stepped off it :yk
 
Will this match last 3 days, that is the question.

Will Pakistan cross 200 in any innings,that is the question.

Will there be slightest rivalry to make neutrals like us interested, that is the question.
 
Hilarious how some fans are underestimating Australia. We will get smashed in ever test. No match will last 5 days.

Someone suggested that it could go either way, either we blow them away or vice versa lol

We have won what one test match in Auz in the last 20 years.

There is only one team getting blown away
 
Mainul said:
Will this match last 3 days, that is the question.

Will Pakistan cross 200 in any innings,that is the question.

Will there be slightest rivalry to make neutrals like us interested, that is the question.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your interest, but the Pakistani cricket team does not play to please the Bangladeshi cricket fans.
 
castortroy said:
Hilarious how some fans are underestimating Australia. We will get smashed in ever test. No match will last 5 days.

Someone suggested that it could go either way, either we blow them away or vice versa lol

We have won what one test match in Auz in the last 20 years.

There is only one team getting blown away
Click to expand...

If we are bowling first on a day night swinging pitch then Australia can be bowled out for under 150.
 
Its gonna be Sohail who plays ahead of Rahat and Imran only because the batting option he offers as a no.8..
along with the fact that he was our highest wicket taker in the series vs NZ (for one reason or another) he will get the nod ahead of the other two..

Also considering he was very good in the WC in these bowling conditions
 
These Pink Ball Test Matches are 3 day affairs, so I don't see this one going down 5 days, and Sohail has had a rest for 15 days so I think he can stay for the first Test, we might have to bring in Rahat or Imran for the other two any way... considering Toyota Corolla Indus is durable but its Engine loses its steam in subsequent innings
 
However all eyes will be on our Lamborghini - Mohammad Amir.. he has to get atleast a 4'fer in this series or he should be sent packing for good.. no more excuses man, even Rahat and Sohail have outperformed him by atleast getting a 4'fer and a 5'fer respectively..

Its like saying Virat Kohli can't get runs on flat wickets.. Amir should've no excuses whatsoever anymore
 
Pete Rose said:
This has no logical basis whatsoever.
If people think we will lose because of squad selection: rather than lack of exposure to these conditions, then they deluding themselves.
Click to expand...

Conditions is fundamental reason that no asian team never winning test series in AUS/SA. Our ATG team was able draw series against mighty WI (back in 80s), win in ENG/NZ/IND but never in AUS/SA... Bounce is serious problem for us to over come. No amount of change can fix that.

India recently has been playing AUS once every year(test or ODI), this is going to help them, atleast their batters will perform better... We are playing after 7 years(2009 till now), that's a generation worth of time :facepalm:

Look at SA, they just win the series, because they play bounce everyday. Comparing their batsmen with ours on these pitches is injustice....
 
All I want from our bowlers is to pitch it up, no short stuff. New ball is all about length, that's the only way to get Warner and Smith out. We cannot waste new balls, they cannot leave too many balls, you have to make them play at fuller length...If I see them wasting new ball, then whole reason of Mickey as coach is point less :(
 
Pakistan need to tap the spirit of Lord's.
No one was giving them a chance before that test match.
If it helps they can take inspiration form India's last match here, where they scored 400 runs in their first innings.
 
I really do hope Mohammad Amir can make his mark here, don't want to see him get 2-3 wickets per innings, I want 5'fers from him with those snaky in swingers and finally the most important thing, fielders taking his catches!
 
If we win the toss, should we bat or bowl first ?

Brad Haddin said its better to bat first even if there's a bit of juice in the pitch as the surface quickens up on Day 2 and the nicks will carry.
 
ExplicitAI said:
I really do hope Mohammad Amir can make his mark here, don't want to see him get 2-3 wickets per innings, I want 5'fers from him with those snaky in swingers and finally the most important thing, fielders taking his catches!
Click to expand...

I never understood the fascination with Amir, in his career he has lit only one series on fire (the no-ball series), all rest of the time he has performed as worse than mediocre bowlers in tests.
SR of 60+ avg of30+, what's so special?
 
Markhor said:
If we win the toss, should we bat or bowl first ?

Brad Haddin said its better to bat first even if there's a bit of juice in the pitch as the surface quickens up on Day 2 and the nicks will carry.
Click to expand...
It depends on the weather. If there is overcast throughout the day, then bowl first.

Nicks are going to carry regardless. Gabba is very lively.
 
Junaids said:
Rahat.

I know the batting would be marginally less weak with Sohail Khan, but the bottom line is 7 left-handed Aussie batsmen.

Only the left-armers can get them LBW. So I'd go Amir/Rahat/Wahab as my bowling attack, and yes, I know that's one dimensional.

But I wouldn't want a 4 man bowling attack. I'd want 2 all-rounders, Yasir Shah and 2 specialist quicks.

And tomorrow morning if I was Mickey Arthur I'd seriously consider pulling the surprise of the century and selecting the bowling coach, Azhar Mahmood. He is basically exactly what you want as your fifth bowler in a pink ball Test!
Click to expand...

Apart from other fantasies, I have one question here which I need a bit technical explanation from you - why right arm pacers, particularly swing bowlers can't get LBW to left-handers?

Without going to CI; my memory tells that from Lille to Kapil to Alderman to Hadlee to Botham to Dilley to Anderson to Styen to Pollock to Waquar to Gillespie to Phillander to Ambi - I have seen them getting lots of LBW to lefties, bowling over the wicket - and I am not even bothering to mention Mac here. Since the % of lefti is much lower, obviously LBW against them will be lower in terms of count. In a synomous context, Wasim, Zak, Vaas, Whitney, even Reid despite his height had lots of LBW against right handers.

Coming to technical terms - it's easier for a right arm out-swing/Leg-cutter to get plumb LBW than right armer's in coming balls to right handers. Against in coming ball to right handers; quality batsmen try to take the impact outside line of off, hence often the ball has to beat through his forward defense; but it can't swing much to miss leg; almost for similar reason off-spinners hardly get LBW to right handers, bowling from over the wicket. On contrary, a good out swing bowler bowling over the wicket & from close to wicket (perfect example was Kapil Dev) has the best chance to get LBW if he pitches within line & brings it back to hit the sticks - it's almost plumb always & gets lefti batsman cramped on forward defence. You can check CI what Kapil or Hadlee did to Border or Yellop or Gower; later Mac & Styen to almost every lefty. It's difficult for bowlers with having inswing/cutter as stock ball to get lefties LBW - for that Imran, Waquar & Snow developed Yorkers.

Now, Sohail struggles against lefti because he can't put his out swing to perfect spot for lefti; while Imran doesn't have the out swing, neither pace to bowl Yorkers - that's their problem; but you are generaliging everyone here. I can tell you that Kapil or Hadlee would have been licking their lips to bowl at this 7 lefti line up as it makes them duel leathal - their stock ball becomes wicket taking threat. Sometimes in last decade WI put few lineups with 6-8 lefti in it - check what qualityright arm pace bowlers did to them.

Without putting motherhood statement, please come up with solid explanation - otherwise it'll end up like Yasir & Lefti; Sohail & his wrong length; Alderman & his 3 years isolation, Jadeja & his darting; Phillander & his skin colour discussion.
 
I'm getting the same feeling I got before the Lords test.

The PCT has a knack of putting its detractors in its place. At the moment no one is even giving us a chance just like before the Lords test.


Would be lovely if we put these over-rated Aussies in their place.
 
Sami, Azhar, Babar, Asad, YK, Misbah, Sarfu, Amir, Sohail, Yasir, Rahat - is my playing XI.

Biggest trap at Gabba (at least in Day Test, shouldn't be different in D/N much - Gabba condition has some unique characteristics, which shouldn't change much) for every touring side is that - coming to AUS, they experience the extra bounce on the track, with a bit of grass - get's excited & immediately think that - it's a bowl first wicket.

ABSOLUTELY wrong idea - it's a trap. AUS is dominant at Gabba, hence either way it might not matter much; but teams have to bat first at Gabba, if they have any chance to win - be it risking a 3 day rout, if it goes wrong. Gabba is the Aussie tour opener & I have hardly missed any Test at Gabba over the years - the wicket is unique there. It's a bit greenish slow track on Day one, which becomes rock hard & fast on Day 2/3, then absolute belter in Day 3/4; finally cracks start to appear with double pace & uneven bounce - on that Gabba track, the best 2 bowlers I have seen are Warne & Mac - particularly Warne was unscoreable in Day 5. Many teams have put AUS in - lots or uhs & ahs with ball flying past edges, but Aussies will finish the day 1 with 4 or 5 down & then next day they'll reach either side of 400, because they know how to survive at Gabba on Day 1 - after that it's impossible to compete. I have hardly seen Aussie Captain opting to bowl first, even against that WI side at Gabba. Besides, any touring team has dropped more catches at Gabba than any other venue - because of difference in bounce at Aussie venues, edges fly behind batsman at a different height & angle; often it takes time to adjust that for tourists - they are caught in between reverse-cup or side-cup while catching at slips at Gabba, before adjusting to that at WACA.

I think, last time AUS lost at Gabba was in 1988 against WI - Border opted to bat against that pace attack; previous year, ENG forced them to follow on after being put in to bat. Last time IND took a bold decision to bat first & got the Aussies in a tight corner. PAK MUST, MUST back their strength & bring their best match winners in to the game - that's Yasir bowling to an inexperienced AUS lineup with even just about 200+ at hand; supported by the pacers with new ball.

Might end in 3 Days if PAK bats first & things go wrong, but any given condition at Gabba, I'll take PAK defending 170 in 4th innings than PAK facing even 256 after Aussie's 1st innings on Day 2 - absolutely no chance to compete thereafter; Aussies will take a 50+ lead after 1st innings & then will start batting on day 3 track to declare at 353/7 with 130+ overs left to get 10 wickets. May be, the scores will be different for D/N matches - but not the match pattern. PAK has to be bold enough to bat first.
 
Slog said:
Pak lineup?

For me

Sami
Azhar
Babar
YK
Misbah
Shafiq
Sarfaraz
Yasir
Sohail
Amir
Rahat
Click to expand...

Wahab in for Sohail. I actually think Sohail's the better bowler for 2 odd spells but his fitness is just not upto the mark especially if there is not going to be a regular fifth bowler.
 
Bat first. Bowling first would make playing Yasir pretty pointless because there won't be any footmarks to play with especially if we play three left armers.
 
Today was Dominoes wacky Wednesday deal. Buy 1 get 1 free. Got that, also got Doritos and coke.

Got some coldcuts aswell as for back up.

All prepared for this test game
 
Junaids said:
Expanding on my declaration comment above..........

It's hard work to bowl people out in daylight, except on the first day.

The grass dries out and neither reverse swing nor spin works. As a bowling team, if you have to bowl in daylight you need to be supremely economical so that the scoreboard doesn't advance before Dinner.

During the Dinner break the humidity starts to revitalize the grass on the pitch so seam movement returns, as does swing in the air.

But it's still conventional swing. And so it works best with a new ball.

It means that the team strategy has to change from that used in a day Test. This Pink Ball Day/Night business in Australia is actually like a hybrid between ODI and Test cricket.

You obviously try not to lose wickets against the new ball, even in daylight. But then as a batting team in daylight you have to press down hard on the accelerator and score as many runs as you can before Dinner, so that you can declare and bowl when bowling is easiest.

Consider two ways of scoring 240 and then bowling:

1. The Pakistan way:
Session 1: 60-3
Session 2: 150-4
Session 3: 240 all out at the close

This is a disaster in Aussie Day/Night conditions. You have scored too slowly in good batting conditions, and then used up the good bowling conditions to crawl your way to a decent total. But now the opposition will get to bat in Daylight tomorrow, and your bowlers will have no assistance.

Option 2: The Aussie Day/Night way
Session 1: 100-3 (first hour 30-2, second hour scoring at 4 per over)
Session 2: 240-7 declared (scoring at 4.5 per over through the session
Session 3: First hour reduce opposition to 30-5, ultimately 60-7 at the close.

There is just no point crawling to a higher total and using up the hardest batting conditions to do so.
Click to expand...

my thoughts exactly; pakistan must win toss and bat first even if its a green top. survive the first hour and then go at a brisk rate to hit 250 in the first 2 sessions. bowl in the third and take their top order cheaply.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
What are team news ?

Sohail ? Imran ? Rahat ?


What is the news from camp ?
Click to expand...
I have no camp news but I have weather news.

It's really, really humid.

If you recall the two Adelaide Day/Night Tests, in a dry climate, the ball doesn't swing during daylight (except in the first session of Day 1) but then the nighttime coolness makes condensation occur on the wicket and the pitch starts to speed up and take seam, while the floodlit conditions allow swing too.

The grass is being cut shorter at Brisbane, but the extra humidity may make it swing even during the day.
 
Junaids said:
I have no camp news but I have weather news.

It's really, really humid.

If you recall the two Adelaide Day/Night Tests, in a dry climate, the ball doesn't swing during daylight (except in the first session of Day 1) but then the nighttime coolness makes condensation occur on the wicket and the pitch starts to speed up and take seam, while the floodlit conditions allow swing too.

The grass is being cut shorter at Brisbane, but the extra humidity may make it swing even during the day.
Click to expand...
The ball almost always swings at Brisbane even during the day, so it will not be a surprise.
 
Junaids said:
I have no camp news but I have weather news.

It's really, really humid.

If you recall the two Adelaide Day/Night Tests, in a dry climate, the ball doesn't swing during daylight (except in the first session of Day 1) but then the nighttime coolness makes condensation occur on the wicket and the pitch starts to speed up and take seam, while the floodlit conditions allow swing too.

The grass is being cut shorter at Brisbane, but the extra humidity may make it swing even during the day.
Click to expand...

Not looking forward to us batting in these conditions. We were troubled by swing even by that young CA XI. Need to somehow scrape to a competitive total.
 
Junaids said:
I have no camp news but I have weather news.

It's really, really humid.

If you recall the two Adelaide Day/Night Tests, in a dry climate, the ball doesn't swing during daylight (except in the first session of Day 1) but then the nighttime coolness makes condensation occur on the wicket and the pitch starts to speed up and take seam, while the floodlit conditions allow swing too.

The grass is being cut shorter at Brisbane, but the extra humidity may make it swing even during the day.
Click to expand...


Thanks alot for the update.


Can you post the Video i referred you to watch few weeks ago on twitter. It was a single delivery visual of this season where ball pitched on 5th stump and knocked legstump ?
 
Chief Destroyer said:
The ball almost always swings at Brisbane even during the day, so it will not be a surprise.
Click to expand...
I was at last year's Red Ball Test and it didn't.

Kevin Mitchell Junior has been experimenting with very short grass for Tests of all colour balls. Last year the ball went gun barrel straight, but the Kiwis had been sent - like Pakistan this year - to a ground with no bounce for their only warm-up match, so Australia racked up a huge score on a grassless track with no lateral movement, then beat NZ by exploiting bounce with which they were unfamiliar.

That might be the plan this year too.

The difference is, the pink ball swings until it loses its shine. Amir with a Pink Ball would be much more lethal than Boult was with last year's red ball. And Southee had a bad back.
 
Junaids said:
I was at last year's Red Ball Test and it didn't.

Kevin Mitchell Junior has been experimenting with very short grass for Tests of all colour balls. Last year the ball went gun barrel straight, but the Kiwis had been sent - like Pakistan this year - to a ground with no bounce for their only warm-up match, so Australia racked up a huge score on a grassless track with no lateral movement, then beat NZ by exploiting bounce with which they were unfamiliar.

That might be the plan this year too.

The difference is, the pink ball swings until it loses its shine. Amir with a Pink Ball would be much more lethal than Boult was with last year's red ball. And Southee had a bad back.
Click to expand...

Not sure what match you watched because I saw swing for 15-20 overs. That's as much as you expect from a kookaburra. Kiwis just wasted it bowling rubbish.
 
In any sport between two Teams ..... you either Teach a lesson or Learn one yourself !!!!!! Let's see what happens in this Test Match.
 
waleed88 said:
However all eyes will be on our Lamborghini - Mohammad Amir.. he has to get atleast a 4'fer in this series or he should be sent packing for good.. no more excuses man, even Rahat and Sohail have outperformed him by atleast getting a 4'fer and a 5'fer respectively..

Its like saying Virat Kohli can't get runs on flat wickets.. Amir should've no excuses whatsoever anymore
Click to expand...
Agreed man. Except not sure if we should drop him for good. He will destroy in domestics anyway, regardless of whether or not he is dropped.
 
Unless something has changed, I'm expecting an atatck of:

Mohammad Amir
Rahat Ali
Wahab Riaz
Yasir Shah
Azhar Ali

I think the LBW situation with all Australia's left-handers means that the left-arm quicks will all be picked.

And don't forget, last time this happened - in 1983-84 - the most effective Pakistan bowler Down Under to all the Aussie left-handers was actually the very mediocre Azeem Hafeez.......who just happened to be a left-armer, but not one in the class of the current crop.
 
Junaids said:
Unless something has changed, I'm expecting an atatck of:

Mohammad Amir
Rahat Ali
Wahab Riaz
Yasir Shah
Azhar Ali

I think the LBW situation with all Australia's left-handers means that the left-arm quicks will all be picked.

And don't forget, last time this happened - in 1983-84 - the most effective Pakistan bowler Down Under to all the Aussie left-handers was actually the very mediocre Azeem Hafeez.......who just happened to be a left-armer, but not one in the class of the current crop.
Click to expand...

Azhar Ali cannot be known as part of any attack. lol

I think Pak should bowl first, really get stuck into the Aussie batsmen early. 3/4 wickets in the firt session wil set up the series.
 
I would be surprised to see Sohail Khan dropped. He has been like one of the betters if not the best. Under lights who would you prefer? Wahab or Sohail? Most would pick Sohail.
 
Prince of Pakistan said:
I would be surprised to see Sohail Khan dropped. He has been like one of the betters if not the best. Under lights who would you prefer? Wahab or Sohail? Most would pick Sohail.
Click to expand...
It's a showdown between Rahat and Sohail. Wahab is a guaranteed pick.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Azhar Ali cannot be known as part of any attack. lol

I think Pak should bowl first, really get stuck into the Aussie batsmen early. 3/4 wickets in the firt session wil set up the series.
Click to expand...
I actually disagree.

I have wondered about inserting the Aussies, but I just can't see how it could work.

If you do that and bowl them out in 2 sessions for 200, then you bat under lights and probably score even less, then have to bowl by day again tomorrow. You could lose inside 2 days.

And if you put them in to bat and don't bowl them out until the end of day 1, then they've scored too many runs.

I think Pakistan needs to bat first, but score quickly in the second session and then declare at Dinner on anything above 220.

That only requires 220 runs in 60 overs.

The key is just to bowl from straight after Dinner.
 
Last edited:
Junaids said:
I actually disagree.

I have wondered about inserting the Aussies, but I just can't see how it could work.

If you do that and bowl them out in 2 sessions for 200, then you bat under lights and probably score even less, then have to bowl by day again tomorrow. You could lose inside 2 days.

And if you put them in to bat and don't bowl them out until the end of day 1, then they've scored too many runs.

I think Pakistan needs to bat first, but score quickly in the second session and then declare at Dinner on anything above 220.

That only requires 220 runs in 60 overs.

The key is just to bowl from straight after Dinner.
Click to expand...

Australia are the superiour team in these condtions. If Pakistan is hoping to win this series it must re-address the balance of power immediatly to put Aus under pressure and think they can lose.

Batting first scoring 80-2 first session isn't too bad but isn't a strong position either.

Take a risk bowl first and have Aus 75/4, early winning position gained. The lights haven't been used much in Aus so can't really take them into too much account at this stage.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Australia are the superiour team in these condtions. If Pakistan is hoping to win this series it must re-address the balance of power immediatly to put Aus under pressure and think they can lose.

Batting first scoring 80-2 first session isn't too bad but isn't a strong position either.

Take a risk bowl first and have Aus 75/4, early winning position gained. The lights haven't been used much in Aus so can't really take them into too much account at this stage.
Click to expand...
We have almost 30 tests and first class matches under lights - trust me, the first hour after dinner is much harder than the first of the day.
 
Junaids said:
We have almost 30 tests and first class matches under lights - trust me, the first hour after dinner is much harder than the first of the day.
Click to expand...

Even more reason to bowl ,when bowling is your strength and batting is as delicate as can be. Bowling first cant really lose the game on the first day.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Even more reason to bowl ,when bowling is your strength and batting is as delicate as can be. Bowling first cant really lose the game on the first day.
Click to expand...

You don't follow cricket at this ground much, do you?

That's how England lost the First Tests in both 94-95 and 98-99!
 
Pak in England few months ago was so hyped up, I just don't feel like they're hyping our tour in Australia the same way.
 
Junaids said:
You don't follow cricket at this ground much, do you?

That's how England lost the First Tests in both 94-95 and 98-99!
Click to expand...

Ground history is a weak indication of any present match especially involving Pakistan. The first session or the first day will be very tough for Pakistan to bat against Start & Hazlewood on a pitch with assistance. Bowl first, try to take the advantage yourself.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Even more reason to bowl ,when bowling is your strength and batting is as delicate as can be. Bowling first cant really lose the game on the first day.
Click to expand...

never bowl first at the Gabba (or any Australian ground)
 
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