Boxing Thread

[shaz619]

All good here too bro. I'm rooting for GGG to win and I hope he does it by KO, crushing Canelo in the process but I'm also aware that physically Canelo is better, but we'll see on fight night, how much the juice was giving him an edge or at all.

Do you think Canelo can improve his stamina, I've heard that he's slimmed down so he can be more active and work longer in rounds to sway the judges - tactically can either man do better, this time out?

I think regardless you'd have to give Canelo the edge as far as endurance is concerned, in the last fight he just failed to hold the centre partly due to tactics but also GGG's pressure. Both can definitely do better, in the last fight Canelo seemed to be happy admiring his work after making GGG miss but did nothing to follow up with a counter, he will need to take more risks this time / keep the fight in the centre but maintain range and use his hand / foot speed. GGG on the other hand will need to feint more instead of throwing pitter patter jabs, cut the ring of better and attack the body; he will risk leaving himself open but that will be one of the most essential keys to his victory in my view.

 

[Savak]

Am not sure whether Canelo after the drug scandal and the fact he is now going to slim down will have the same strength, power and punch resistance.

People predicting Canelo to KO GGG are forgetting the fact that GGG will make adjustments of his own in the rematch and may come with a different strategy, he has promised he will not let Canelo off the hook this time and will be even more determined to go for the KO rather than leaving it to the scorecards.

In the first fight GGG was clearly the aggressor, he had a better jab and outjabbed Canelo comfortably, he threw a lot more punches than Canelo but Canelo connected with 4 more power shots but overall after from the first 2 and last 3 rounds, GGG won the rest of the rounds and the fight should have been ruled in his favor. Lol Canelo's expression after GGG took his best punch of the fight and still kept coming forward like a boss is something to behold. GGG also took a 7-8 punch combination from Canelo and was still standing still and upright.

 

[blackanhyellow]

Not sure I am happy with this decision.

How did a judge have Canelo winning the 12th?

 

[Savak]

I thought GGG won the fight just like the first, what is wrong with the sport of Boxing. In both fights Canelo started strong, in the last fight he started strong and finished strong but lost all the middle rounds, in the second fight Canelo started fast again but GGG won all the other rounds.

Is the sport of boxing this corrupt where HBO will protect their cash cow? GGG has been robbed twice and he is the 36 year old fighter against a young fighter in his prime.

 

[Syed1]

GGG got robbed

 

[90MPH]

Totally disgusted with the decision.

This was daylight robbery in front of our eyes.

Boxing is probably the most corrupt sport when it comes to decisions.

I feel for GGG. Glad he didn’t give an interview because it’s totally pointless.

 

[blackanhyellow]

G is 36 years old his career is pretty much done.

Canelo is a bigger star in the States, and has age on his side.

So ofcourse they were going to protect their blue eyed boy.

Not to mention this sets up a Canelo v GGG 3 to make some more money.

As far as this fight was concerned, GGG lost a few early rounds but made them up in the later rounds.

Canelo is a beast though, the chin on him is legendary.

 

[Savak]

G is 36 years old his career is pretty much done.

Canelo is a bigger star in the States, and has age on his side.

So ofcourse they were going to protect their blue eyed boy.

Not to mention this sets up a Canelo v GGG 3 to make some more money.

As far as this fight was concerned, GGG lost a few early rounds but made them up in the later rounds.

Canelo is a beast though, the chin on him is legendary.

I hope the last 2 results do not hurt GGG's legacy and standing in the sport where everyone goes "He lost his last 2 fights to Canelo therefore it proves he was over rated".

Despite my sympathies with GGG, i seriously hopes he hangs it up, he has declined significantly and father time waits for no one, with each and every month he is only getting worse and by the time of the rematch he will be 37 years old, he cannot continue to take punches like he does and should walk away from the sport with his faculties intact.

 

[Varun]

Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez beats Gennady Golovkin on points to take WBC and WBA middleweight titles

Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez claimed the WBC and WBA world middleweight titles by inflicting a first career defeat on Gennady Golovkin with a gripping points win in their Las Vegas rematch.

The Mexican claimed a frenetic final round on the scorecards which proved critical in preventing a repeat of the draw both men shared 364 days earlier at the same T-Mobile Arena venue.

At the end of a contest which showcased the expert skill level of two of the sport's finest practitioners, Alvarez scored a 114-114 115-113 115-113 majority decision.

Golovkin, whose first defeat comes in his 40th bout - left the ring immediately without conducting an interview as his rival - fighting for the first time since serving a six-month drugs ban - celebrated.

"My corner told me that I needed to win the final round and that what's I did. I'm very emotional," said Alvarez, who has previously held world titles at middleweight and light-middleweight.

Golovkin told reporters afterwards: "I'm not going to say who won tonight, because the victory belongs to Canelo according to the judges. I thought I fought better than he did."

Alvarez looked close to tears after a decision which will again prompt controversy as, for spells in the fight, Golovkin seemed to be edging the physical side of a tactical battle, with his jab proving key early on.

But with scoring already criticised in their first bout before Alvarez's two failed doping tests in February, it is perhaps not surprising that once again controversy will remain attached to this rivalry, with talk of a rematch almost certain.

Few could argue the hype surrounding their second meeting was not justified as the bout ebbed and flowed. Celebrities including actors Will Smith and Denzel Washington, and sports stars such as Mike Tyson and LeBron James sat ringside as over 21,000 inside the arena were taken in by a bout in which neither man looked like capitulating at any stage.

After Golovkin's poised jab clearly won the opening three minutes, Alvarez's response in the second - including a solid right uppercut - pointed to the back-and-forth contest that was to come.

All four judges gave 'Canelo' four of the opening six rounds despite some of the more eye-catching work coming from Kazakhstan's Golovkin, who landed a notable left hook in the fourth.

But Alvarez - who sustained a cut above his left eye which worsened as the bout developed - began to close distance in order to nullify Golovkin's jab. At times their heads were almost touching, bringing hooks and uppercuts into focus, with Alvarez landing a well-placed right to the body in the sixth.

Alvarez, a man steeped in the art of fighting with six brothers who also hold professional boxing records, was game in walking forward repeatedly, a contrast to his a largely back-foot performance last time.

His mother was pictured praying at ringside after a ninth round which saw both men launch repeated attacks and Alvarez almost came unstuck in the 10th as a left hook to his jaw briefly rendered him limp, only for him to somehow instantly find poise.

But his work up close perhaps won the judges over. Ringside stats showed Alvarez landed 46 body punches compared to his rival but after landing a right to the body and left to the face in the final round, he ate two uppercuts in the closing 10 seconds as both men responded to the noise around them.

They embraced before each raising their hands but the cards prompted Mexican celebration on the country's Independence weekend.

"If the people want another fight then we'll do it again," said Alvarez, beaten only by Floyd Mayweather in a 53-fight career. "We'll do it, no doubt."

In essence the judges were only one round adrift and that's how close it was.

Controversy will be generated. There are bound to be boxing fans out there who felt Canelo won and there will be loads of people shaking their heads.

All judges were in agreement for the first six rounds, it was 4-2 at that stage and we ringside had it the other way around to Golovkin.

There will be an awful lot of talk for the next few weeks and that is one upside for the sport. It wouldn't have got this amount of talk had it not been a controversial result. If the third fight does happen, you would imagine it would happen back here in May next year.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/boxing/45538350

 

[blackanhyellow]

I hope the last 2 results do not hurt GGG's legacy and standing in the sport where everyone goes "He lost his last 2 fights to Canelo therefore it proves he was over rated".

Despite my sympathies with GGG, i seriously hopes he hangs it up, he has declined significantly and father time waits for no one, with each and every month he is only getting worse and by the time of the rematch he will be 37 years old, he cannot continue to take punches like he does and should walk away from the sport with his faculties intact.

GGG arguably won both fights against Canelo that is the funny part. So no I dont see this as tarnishing his legacy.

He definitely should hang up the gloves now. I agree he is in decline.

But a 36 year old was dominating in the last few rounds against a 28 year old, so GGG still has a couple more fights left in him.

Maybe a third fight against Canelo is on the cards.

 

[blackanhyellow]

A big flaw in boxing is how judges favour more well known fighters.

The judges had Canelo winning on points against Amir Khan (before the KO). Anyone watching that fight with their eyeballs would know Khan outboxed Canello and won majority of the rounds, until ofcourse Canelo upped the tempo eventually knocking out khan. Yet still the scorecards showed the judges has Canelo ahead on points.

 

[Savak]

A big flaw in boxing is how judges favour more well known fighters.

The judges had Canelo winning on points against Amir Khan (before the KO). Anyone watching that fight with their eyeballs would know Khan outboxed Canello and won majority of the rounds, until ofcourse Canelo upped the tempo eventually knocking out khan. Yet still the scorecards showed the judges has Canelo ahead on points.

I had Khan winning all the rounds leading to the KO in that fight.

 

[Savak]

GGG arguably won both fights against Canelo that is the funny part. So no I dont see this as tarnishing his legacy.

He definitely should hang up the gloves now. I agree he is in decline.

But a 36 year old was dominating in the last few rounds against a 28 year old, so GGG still has a couple more fights left in him.

Maybe a third fight against Canelo is on the cards.

The third fight is pointless. He is not going to KO Canelo and without that he cannot win the judges no matter if he wins all the rounds on the cards, you will HBO commies orgasming over everything Canelo does

 

[Eagle_Eye]

Canelo must have promised the judges steak dinner....

GGG should have doped himself upto his eyeballs in training and gone all out for a knockout. The judges were never going to let him win on points.

 

[kingusama92]

Entertaining night.

GGG was robbed in their first fight. This one was closer (wouldn't call it a robbery) but I still had him winning by a bit.

Boxing and its judges have tarnished the sport in recent years to the point it feels scripted. Whether it's Mayweather calmly dancing around the ring knowing he'll win by decision (at least he earns the points I suppose) or Alvarez getting handled only to come out with a draw/win, there's a lot wrong with what's going on.

They're choosing a few big names and propping them up with bad decisions.

I'm not sure GGG should take the third fight. He isn't good enough to KO him anymore and the decision will go to Canelo again.

 

[shaz619]

The draw was the correct result in the first fight neither man did enough to stamp their authority and one of the cards being outrageously wide in favour of Canelo took away from that, the official result was no robbery at all it's just a narrative spewed by casuals.

All 3 judges cards were on point this time round, one had it a draw and the other two had Canelo winning by 2 points; these were an excellent reflection of a high calibre competitive fight between two modern greats at 160 lb. I scored the bout in favour of GGG, 116-114 and was routing for him badly to win; but honestly I just can't complain about the result, there were so many swing rounds that could have gone either way.

GGG knew he is the B side and he knew he was the away champion in Vegas competing against the biggest superstar in Boxing and he also knew that he lost on points last time round. Yet during the first half of this fight he was being out worked, Canelo was the aggressor and GGG in general spent most of the fight moving away from the pocket, even with Alvarez pushing forward GGG did not attack the body and majority of the cleaner work came from Canelo, in the second half GGG sat on his punches a lot more and made Canelo feel the pace, he clearly landed the more damaging blows and you could tell the younger mans tank was running on empty but he had his moments with those looping right hands and kept moving forward. It's nothing to do with age, GGG can still go and power is the last think you lose, t's time people appreciate Canelo's incredible chin and elite skill levels; he essentially fought the fight GGG wanted him to and did enough to win in the eyes of the judges. It was a very competitive fight and like I said I had GGG up by 2 points but when the other fighter wins officially by a similar margin you can't really complain.

GGG will still go down as one of the best middleweights of his era , I've been a sceptic when he had been running through B and C level fighters but even in defeat he has shown that against the younger fighter he couldn't be dominated and the same can be said for the Jacobs fight although I had the latter up in that encounter, it doesn't matter who you are or what era you fight in but when you step up in class you're not going to be able to just run through your opponents, it turns in a chess match. Roberto Duran was defeated by Hagler, Hearns and Leonard, but that didn't tarnish his legacy and am sure GGG will probably enter the Boxing Hall of Fame one day.

Would love for either man to face Billy Joe Saunders next, not many of you will appreciate his elite skill because he doesn't have as big a profile, but trust me; for me, until he is defeated neither man can claim the 160 lb undisputed championship. It will be a very tough fight for Canelo or GGG and they'd have to knock BJS out because I don't think even a Canelo can defeat him over the 12 round distance. I haven't read the papers this morning so don't know what the reaction is to the GGG/Canelo fight in general but who wouldn't want to see a third fight ? everyone is entitled to their opinion on the outcome but from the POV of a Boxing fan whether you're a casual or purist am sure everyone got their monies worth.

 

[shaz619]

The speed was a huge factor for me in this fight, despite being out for so long Canelo was very sharp and it allowed him to dictate the pace in general, he commanded range incredibly well with his jab and it kept GGG off balance even when he wasn't landing it, GGG threw the stiffer Jab but Canelo was measuring distance better and his feints prevented GGG from landing anything clean or taking more risks, we have to give his skill credit to be honest. I found it shocking how BT sports had GGG up 4-2 through the first 6 rounds that was just ridiculous. Am very upset for GGG though and while we as Boxing fans won, I feel as if the sport lost in many ways at the same time

 

[shaz619]

Both fighters expressed interest for a third bout, wouldn't mind that at all ! Very rare to see a trilogy at this level in the current era, we are so blessed.

 

[kingusama92]

This says it all.

Not a single Canelo win among the experts.

Harold Lederman (HBO Sports): 116-112 Golovkin

Brian Campbell (CBS sports): 116-112 Golovkin

Dan Rafael (ESPN): 114-114 draw

Stephen A. Smith (ESPN): Golovkin won

Arash Markazi (ESPN): 114-114 draw

Brett Okamoto (ESPN): 114-114 draw

Teddy Atlas - Golovkin won

Salvador Rodríguez (ESPN Mexico): 114-114 draw

Eduardo Lamazón (Televisa): 116-112 Golovkin

Gareth A Davies (The Telegraph): 116-112 Golovkin

Josh Peter (USA Today): 115-113 Golovkin

Sports Illustrated: 114-114 draw

Dylan Hernandez (LA Times): 115-113 Golovkin

Lance Pugmire (La Times): 114-114 draw

BoxingScene: 114-114 draw

Chris Mannix (Yahoo! Sports): 115-113 Golovkin

Kevin Iole (Yahoo! Sports): 114-114 draw

The Guardian: 116-112 Golovkin

Joe DePaolo (Washington Post): 115-113 Golovkin

Mike Coppinger (Ring Magazine): 114-114 draw

Douglass Fischer (Ring Magazine): 114-114 draw

Mike Baca II (Ring Magazine and Undisputed Champion Network): 115-113 Golovkin

Al Bernstein (Showtime Sports): Golovkin won

Sherdog.com: 116-112 Golovkin

Jai Bednall (news.com.au): 115-113 Golovkin

Brian Mazique (Forbes): 114-114 draw

Adam Abramowitz (Ring Magazine and SN Boxing): 115-113 Golovkin

Tom Craze (Bad Left Hook): 116-112 Golovkin

Fraser Coffeen (Bloody Elbow): 115-113 Golovkin

Anton Tabuena (Bloody Elbow): 115-113 Golovkin

The Associated Press: 114-114 draw

Adam Caparell (Complex Sports): 116-112 Golovkin

Bill Simmons (HBO and The Ringer): 114-114 draw

Steven Muehlhausen (Sporting News): 116-112 Golovkin

Andreas Hale (Sporting News): Golovkin won

Michael Montero (MonteroOnBoxing): 115-113 Golovkin

Matt Christie (Boxing News): 115-114 Golovkin

George Willis (New York Post): 114-114 draw

Gary Melo (SportsNet Canada): Golovkin won

Below The Belt Podcast: 115-113 Golovkin

World Boxing News: 115-113 Golovkin

Jeff Powell (Daily Mail): 116-113 Golovkin

Marcos Villegas (Fight Hub TV): 114-114 draw

Michelle Joy Phelps (Behind the Gloves): 115-113 Golovkin

Lennox Lewis: Golovkin won by 2 rounds

Fight Nights: 115-113 Golovkin

Michael Woods (NYFights.com): two point edge for Golovkin

Dieter Kurtenbach (San Jose Mercury News and the East Bay Times): Golovkin won by 3 rounds

Rafael G (the Fight City): 116-112 Golovkin

 

[shaz619]

This says it all.

Not a single Canelo win among the experts.

Michelle Joy Phelps, Dan Rafael I wouldn't call majority of these people experts, they are reporters / journalists outside the fighters and a couple of respected names who don't score with their fandom.

But their cards are not terrible and not even one of the cards has GGG up by a compatible margin, that should show you that it was a close fight so it doesn't make any sense to call this a robbery or dispute the official cards. Canelo's skill should be the focus especially when they are severely under rated, many stated he would never face GGG, he did, then they said GGG would knock Canelo out, he didn't, Canelo was then criticised for using lateral movement and how he wouldn't fight in the pocket in the rematch, he did just that during the entire fight and did enough get the win although by a small margin. Moreover, Abel Sanchez GGG's own trainer who had the best view scored the fight a draw.

 

[in_cutter]

GGG robbed yet again. What a farce.

Great fight though...at best, a draw.

 

[in_cutter]

Two amazing boxers that can take a punch. Respect to both.

 

[kingusama92]

Michelle Joy Phelps, Dan Rafael I wouldn't call majority of these people experts, they are reporters / journalists outside the fighters and a couple of respected names who don't score with their fandom.

But their cards are not terrible and not even one of the cards has GGG up by a compatible margin, that should show you that it was a close fight so it doesn't make any sense to call this a robbery or dispute the official cards. Canelo's skill should be the focus especially when they are severely under rated, many stated he would never face GGG, he did, then they said GGG would knock Canelo out, he didn't, Canelo was then criticised for using lateral movement and how he wouldn't fight in the pocket in the rematch, he did just that during the entire fight and did enough get the win although by a small margin. Moreover, Abel Sanchez GGG's own trainer who had the best view scored the fight a draw.

I agree this was a close fight (not a robbery in my eyes) but I thought GGG won by a small margin. At worst, it should have been a draw based on certain swing rounds and no way should it have led to a Canelo victory.

In the end, this will go down as a loss on GGG's record and that's the "robbery" I suppose.

 

[kingusama92]

On a side note, if HBO's commentators had their way, Canelo won every round.

 

[shaz619]

I agree this was a close fight (not a robbery in my eyes) but I thought GGG won by a small margin. At worst, it should have been a draw based on certain swing rounds and no way should it have led to a Canelo victory.

In the end, this will go down as a loss on GGG's record and that's the "robbery" I suppose.

I had GGG up by 2 points to and you agree it was a close fight so I don't understand how a Canelo victory should not have been a remote possibility in such a close fight objectively judging the action, all three judges got it right on this occasion. And I was routing for GGG just like you.

The commentary on HBO was actually biased in favour of GGG, even their lead scorer had him up by a pretty healthy margin. Roy Jones Jnr was the only guy respectable on their panel and he called it right.

 

[kingusama92]

I had GGG up by 2 points to and you agree it was a close fight so I don't understand how a Canelo victory should not have been a remote possibility in such a close fight objectively judging the action, all three judges got it right on this occasion. And I was routing for GGG just like you.

The commentary on HBO was actually biased in favour of GGG, even their lead scorer had him up by a pretty healthy margin. Roy Jones Jnr was the only guy respectable on their panel and he called it right.

Only Lederman was fair. Kellerman was severely biased (I'm still trying to find those imaginary successful body shots from Alvarez) and Roy Jones Jr tagged along.

It's a common schtick with Kellerman where he roots against older athletes.

In my eyes, this was a close fight in the sense it could be a draw or a GGG win. It wasn't and shouldn't have been a "any result is on" decision.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=8597]kingusama92[/MENTION]

Kellerman was also making out as if every jab GGG was throwing channelled the spirit of Larry Holmes, I don't like quoting punch stats and always take them with a pinch of salt but as per compu box, Canelo landed 46 body punches compared to just 6 of GGG's. When you are entirely foccused on your favourite fighter you may not have picked up on Canelo's excellent body work but if there was any doubt about that, watch the post fight press conference, GGG was asked if he was bothered by any of Canelo's power shots, he said no but acknowledged that the body shots were good, so no they weren't imaginary, am not sure how you missed them anyway because they were pretty stand out in much of Canelo's offence and another reason for GGG backing up.

In a fight where you would be open to the possibility of a draw, explain how a win by your non-favourite fighter via a couple of points shouldn't be plausible? In a close fight, all results are plausible but from your POV as a GGG fan then I can see how only a draw or a GGG win would be possible.

 

[shaz619]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Sanchez: I Can't Complain About Decision; Canelo Fought Great <a href="https://t.co/GXl1g7UYmu">https://t.co/GXl1g7UYmu</a> <a href="https://t.co/N5IkKnEOXn">pic.twitter.com/N5IkKnEOXn</a></p>— BoxingScene.com (@boxingscene) <a href="https://twitter.com/boxingscene/status/1041322332231368704?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">16 September 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[kingusama92]

[MENTION=8597]kingusama92[/MENTION]

Kellerman was also making out as if every jab GGG was throwing channelled the spirit of Larry Holmes, I don't like quoting punch stats and always take them with a pinch of salt but as per compu box, Canelo landed 46 body punches compared to just 6 of GGG's. When you are entirely foccused on your favourite fighter you may not have picked up on Canelo's excellent body work but if there was any doubt about that, watch the post fight press conference, GGG was asked if he was bothered by any of Canelo's power shots, he said no but acknowledged that the body shots were good, so no they weren't imaginary, am not sure how you missed them anyway because they were pretty stand out in much of Canelo's offence and another reason for GGG backing up.

In a fight where you would be open to the possibility of a draw, explain how a win by your non-favourite fighter via a couple of points shouldn't be plausible? In a close fight, all results are plausible but from your POV as a GGG fan then I can see how only a draw or a GGG win would be possible.

Imaginery at the specific times he was calling them. If a boxer clearly misses and I say "Wow what a great body shot," that's incredible bias or bad eyesight.

Perhaps, he thought this was a radio commentary?

I agree, Canelo got good body shots in throughout the fight and of course, Kellerman was on top of those too!

As for bias, I can definitely understand that argument and it does happen. A GGG fan will see his positives more than the Canelo's. But a shoddy commentary job is always noticeable and in fact, I've seen UK commentators do the same with Amir Khan (and I cheer for Amir).

The idea of being open to a draw means giving multiple swing rounds (in my eyes) to Canelo. At no stage does that mean it would end up 115-113 for Canelo.

 

[khan991]

Last nights fight brought boxing back. That was an epic fight. I had it ggg winning it by one round. It was still a great fight and i dont consider it robbery

 

[shaz619]

Imaginery at the specific times he was calling them. If a boxer clearly misses and I say "Wow what a great body shot," that's incredible bias or bad eyesight.

Perhaps, he thought this was a radio commentary?

I agree, Canelo got good body shots in throughout the fight and of course, Kellerman was on top of those too!

As for bias, I can definitely understand that argument and it does happen. A GGG fan will see his positives more than the Canelo's. But a shoddy commentary job is always noticeable and in fact, I've seen UK commentators do the same with Amir Khan (and I cheer for Amir).

The idea of being open to a draw means giving multiple swing rounds (in my eyes) to Canelo. At no stage does that mean it would end up 115-113 for Canelo.

I agree commentary in general can certainly improve but it can also be due to ones fandom rather then the network, for example BT sports Barry Jones had GGG up 5-1 in the first 6 which is just insane. Lol if you're open to a draw and there are multiple swing rounds as you say then that would in fact result in a 2 point victory for Canelo , say a draw is scored 114-114, and in that card there are multiple swing rounds, assuming those swing rounds are scored in Canelo's favour he wins 115-113

 

[shaz619]

Last nights fight brought boxing back. That was an epic fight. I had it ggg winning it by one round. It was still a great fight and i dont consider it robbery

Well said mate, hit the nail on the head. We shouldn't overlook what a fantastic fight it was, people will always score fights based on who they wanted to win but this was a competetive war and even Abel Sanchez accepted the result. Boxing and the fans were the biggest winners, both fighters were also paid handsomley. No losers at all, GGG fans shouldn't look at this loss as an insult because his performance did not harm him, you don't always win in close fights and GGG triumphed over a controversial win vs Jacobs, you win some and you lose some in Boxing especially at the highest level, refreshing to see two top P4P fighters face each other at their best, we didn't have to wait for this like Manny/Floyd.

 

[KingKhanWC]

In a close fight it's hard to argue any result although I had GGG winning by 2 rounds. Congratulations to Canelo who had huge pressure on him after the drugs controversy. A 3rd fight should happen which will allow GGG another chance to win and if he doesn't he cant complain any longer.

 

[Haroon786]

I had it personally as a draw as there were far too many rounds in the second half of the fight where it was too tightly contested to definitively state either fighter had earned the round. Thrilling contest and I'm gutted for GGG but this was by no means a robbery, yes the scorecards could have been reversed in the favour of G but the fight was too close IMO and the fact that Canelo was the aggressor and managed to upend Golovkin at his one game must have earned him some credit in the eyes of the judges. I'm also disappointed that G didn't go for the KO early on but it seemed like Canelo's body attack really gassed him badly in the first half of the fight.

 

[Savak]

Lol at people saying no robbery, when the wrong guy gets declared victorious and that also two times, it is a robbery. GGG at 36 years old when he is faded won the two wars with a younger, fresher, highly backed in his prime skilled fighter Canelo.

And do jabs no longer count on boxing score cards anymore? In both fights GGG out jabbed Canelo, in both fights he threw more punches. The vast majority of boxing fans are correctly calling it as it that GGG got robbed two times in a row.

GGG if he cannot ko Canelo should no longer fight him but i know because there is so much money on the line, both fighters will do it again.

On a serious note, wars like this can shorten or end boxing careers, i wonder if the 2 fighters will be the same again.

 

[WC-Passion]

It's hilarious to see the meltdown on Boxing twitter over Canelo beating GGG but I do have to feel for the guy, he deserved the win.

Also credit to Alvarez, the guy is a monster. Love watching his fights.

 

[Amjid Javed]

If the 1st fight had not been such a shambles in scoring from judges (Byrd and Trella) then i think most boxing fans would have had no issue with the result of this 2nd fight being so close or Canelo been given decisions. But its clearly obvious numerous times when canelo has fight espcially in vegas he seems to get given home scoring.

Go back to 5 years against FMJ and 1 judge scored it a draw!

This 2nd fight wasnt a full blown robbery like 1st fight but the result wasnt correctly given either.

 

[shaz619]

Lol at people saying no robbery, when the wrong guy gets declared victorious and that also two times, it is a robbery. GGG at 36 years old when he is faded won the two wars with a younger, fresher, highly backed in his prime skilled fighter Canelo.

And do jabs no longer count on boxing score cards anymore? In both fights GGG out jabbed Canelo, in both fights he threw more punches. The vast majority of boxing fans are correctly calling it as it that GGG got robbed two times in a row.

GGG if he cannot ko Canelo should no longer fight him but i know because there is so much money on the line, both fighters will do it again.

On a serious note, wars like this can shorten or end boxing careers, i wonder if the 2 fighters will be the same again.

Am sorry but there are only a minority of fans who are screaming robbery and those are GGG fans, it's always a robbery when the person you want to win loses and fights are scored from their POV. GGG was running through C and B level fighters, no one spoke of his age then when he was in his 30s; but it's bought up when he struggled against legit tests at 160 lb vs Jacobs and Canelo, the fact is that when you step up you no longer will look invincible. Assuming GGG had aged significantly and was shot, the last thing you lose as a fighter is your power yet Canelo was able to absorb his offence.

GGG fans pointed out how Canelo would never face GGG he did, then they stated he would knock Canelo out, he did not and then they claimed he will back pedal / is no real mexican, Canelo fought the fight in the pocket and overwhelmed GGG mano a mano, he out manned him in the ring, this is a fact sadly. There was a lack of intent on GGG's part and he was unable to cope with Canelo's pressure. Some times in fights like these it comes down to who wants it the most and GGG didn't despite holding the mental advantage over Canelo who proved to be a lot stronger mentally.

GGG failed to cut the ring off, he failed to attack the body and while the jab is the most important weapon in Boxing and GGG has a fantastic one at that, he wasn't feinting enough, wasn't able to control range with it and simply did not land it enough to cause significant damage, this is not amateur boxing where punches landed are rewarded based on a points scoring system even when you land on the guard or arms with those pitter patter jabs. Canelo landed the cleaner more powerful blows, cut him in half with his body work (if you're a true mexican you work the body) and GGG had no answer to his speed / pressure, there really was no plan B and GGG showed that he has poor ring generalship even when Canelo fought the fight Team Golovkin wanted!

So don't blame Canelo, the judges or golden boy; blame GGG and his corner! He also knew coming into this fight that he is the B side and promised a knock out, I agree that the judges generally can be kind to Canelo but GGG also knew this, but on this occasion it did not matter because he was humiliated over 12 rounds anyway, he was humiliated so bad that his own trainer had to shut up all the fools who scream robbery, in Abel Sanchez's own words:

“Obviously, we wanted [Golovkin] to do a lot of different things,” Sanchez said during the post-fight press conference. But when they’re in the ring, they’re gonna do the things that they see available to them. Canelo fought the fight that he needed to fight today to win. The judges saw him win. That’s what’s important. You have to give credit to Canelo, instead of trying to say what we didn’t do. He fought a great fight.”

“I think, first of all, we have to congratulate Canelo,” Sanchez said. “Two guys fought a great fight. They gave us [their] all in the ring. Canelo is a champion today. He deserves it. He fought a great fight. "

There really isn't no more to be said, Canelo deserved the win and while Boxing Twitter can have a meltdown as [MENTION=138836]WC-Passion[/MENTION] pointed out, Alvarez is the undisputed P4P King and a future hall of famer. Canelo just out classed GGG in all departments and he doesn't need to oblige GGG with a rematch, GGG wasn't kind to Danny Jacobs was he? GGG didn't step up to face Andre Ward when that fight was handed to him on a plate did he? When things turn south he doesn't even have the class to give a post fight interview to his loyal fans, quiet frankly am losing respect for this whinging B/C level opposition (outside the one good win over Jacobs which has been disputed) specialist and I will be shocked if he fights Billy Joe because I will guarantee you that he will not win a single round against him.

 

[shaz619]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en-gb"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://t.co/q4GE1O6iRd">pic.twitter.com/q4GE1O6iRd</a></p>— javier (@JavierAvocado) <a href="https://twitter.com/JavierAvocado/status/1041411550072864768?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">16 September 2018</a></blockquote>
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Just wasn't able to land anything clean or put any combinations together. GGG's IQ was exposed, he just came across as a brawler on auto-pilot, except the one thing unique about his performance was the constant back pedalling, it wasn't lateral movement, he just seemed to not want it enough, the body shots took his soul and he was made to respect Canelo's power, he basically was dethroned at his own game, Canelo came out with all the tools expected from GGG. It does hurt his legacy if am honest, his resume will show a draw and a loss the two times he stepped up in the P4P class, the only way to erase it is to beat Canelo if they oblige him. That wont happen, am glad people have accepted that his power isn't as destructive as they thought, I mean in his last fight he beat some bum in a round or 2, wasn't he too old then? GGG will always look great against smaller guys or those a level or two below him even at 39. Canelo is the more skill full fighter unfortunately and uses his brain in the ring to.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Really disappointment in BJS, this is too far. [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

 

[Savak]

Am sorry but there are only a minority of fans who are screaming robbery and those are GGG fans, it's always a robbery when the person you want to win loses and fights are scored from their POV. GGG was running through C and B level fighters, no one spoke of his age then when he was in his 30s; but it's bought up when he struggled against legit tests at 160 lb vs Jacobs and Canelo, the fact is that when you step up you no longer will look invincible. Assuming GGG had aged significantly and was shot, the last thing you lose as a fighter is your power yet Canelo was able to absorb his offence.

GGG fans pointed out how Canelo would never face GGG he did, then they stated he would knock Canelo out, he did not and then they claimed he will back pedal / is no real mexican, Canelo fought the fight in the pocket and overwhelmed GGG mano a mano, he out manned him in the ring, this is a fact sadly. There was a lack of intent on GGG's part and he was unable to cope with Canelo's pressure. Some times in fights like these it comes down to who wants it the most and GGG didn't despite holding the mental advantage over Canelo who proved to be a lot stronger mentally.

GGG failed to cut the ring off, he failed to attack the body and while the jab is the most important weapon in Boxing and GGG has a fantastic one at that, he wasn't feinting enough, wasn't able to control range with it and simply did not land it enough to cause significant damage, this is not amateur boxing where punches landed are rewarded based on a points scoring system even when you land on the guard or arms with those pitter patter jabs. Canelo landed the cleaner more powerful blows, cut him in half with his body work (if you're a true mexican you work the body) and GGG had no answer to his speed / pressure, there really was no plan B and GGG showed that he has poor ring generalship even when Canelo fought the fight Team Golovkin wanted!

So don't blame Canelo, the judges or golden boy; blame GGG and his corner! He also knew coming into this fight that he is the B side and promised a knock out, I agree that the judges generally can be kind to Canelo but GGG also knew this, but on this occasion it did not matter because he was humiliated over 12 rounds anyway, he was humiliated so bad that his own trainer had to shut up all the fools who scream robbery, in Abel Sanchez's own words:

“Obviously, we wanted [Golovkin] to do a lot of different things,” Sanchez said during the post-fight press conference. But when they’re in the ring, they’re gonna do the things that they see available to them. Canelo fought the fight that he needed to fight today to win. The judges saw him win. That’s what’s important. You have to give credit to Canelo, instead of trying to say what we didn’t do. He fought a great fight.”

“I think, first of all, we have to congratulate Canelo,” Sanchez said. “Two guys fought a great fight. They gave us [their] all in the ring. Canelo is a champion today. He deserves it. He fought a great fight. "

There really isn't no more to be said, Canelo deserved the win and while Boxing Twitter can have a meltdown as [MENTION=138836]WC-Passion[/MENTION] pointed out, Alvarez is the undisputed P4P King and a future hall of famer. Canelo just out classed GGG in all departments and he doesn't need to oblige GGG with a rematch, GGG wasn't kind to Danny Jacobs was he? GGG didn't step up to face Andre Ward when that fight was handed to him on a plate did he? When things turn south he doesn't even have the class to give a post fight interview to his loyal fans, quiet frankly am losing respect for this whinging B/C level opposition (outside the one good win over Jacobs which has been disputed) specialist and I will be shocked if he fights Billy Joe because I will guarantee you that he will not win a single round against him.

I don't have time to respond in detail. I don't even follow GGG that much or even Canelo and not a fan of either, but I was watching GGG fight videos from 2012 to now, he is 35-36 years old and you can see the difference, he has lost a step, his punch speed is slower and can no longer throw the same kind of combinations.

In both these encounters that I saw, GGG is the one who has outlanded in both fights on the punch stats, if you take a poll of the vast majority of the global population, all will say GGG got robbed in both fights.

Canelo I agree is the better technician, has better defence, he came in with a better game plan and has good Ring IQ too and has a very granite chin and is GGG toughest opponent, but he has been granted a draw and a win due to corruption that he did not deserve and was let off very leniently for a failed drug test which has put people away for years. But I don't feel he is invincible. But in both these fights which I saw the brawler inspite of being 36 years old which is getting on a bit for a pressure fighter won both times.

As far as Canelo is concerned, I have noticed weaknesses too, Khan was outboxing him and beating him speedwise before his chin as expected got caught. Canelo also doesn't look to be a fast mover in the ring and he fades and runs out of gas in the middle rounds. I can see why Floyd beat him comfortably. I will be interested to see how he does against Jacobs

But no doubt both these fights were great and there is no question both these guys are No 1 and 2 respectively in the division.

Btw if you criticize GGG for a weak resume and for just being a brawler and a knock out artist against weak opposition, how can you defend Tyson then?

 

[shaz619]

I don't have time to respond in detail. I don't even follow GGG that much or even Canelo and not a fan of either, but I was watching GGG fight videos from 2012 to now, he is 35-36 years old and you can see the difference, he has lost a step, his punch speed is slower and can no longer throw the same kind of combinations.

In both these encounters that I saw, GGG is the one who has outlanded in both fights on the punch stats, if you take a poll of the vast majority of the global population, all will say GGG got robbed in both fights.

Canelo I agree is the better technician, has better defence, he came in with a better game plan and has good Ring IQ too and has a very granite chin and is GGG toughest opponent, but he has been granted a draw and a win due to corruption that he did not deserve and was let off very leniently for a failed drug test which has put people away for years. But I don't feel he is invincible. But in both these fights which I saw the brawler inspite of being 36 years old which is getting on a bit for a pressure fighter won both times.

As far as Canelo is concerned, I have noticed weaknesses too, Khan was outboxing him and beating him speedwise before his chin as expected got caught. Canelo also doesn't look to be a fast mover in the ring and he fades and runs out of gas in the middle rounds. I can see why Floyd beat him comfortably. I will be interested to see how he does against Jacobs

But no doubt both these fights were great and there is no question both these guys are No 1 and 2 respectively in the division.

Btw if you criticize GGG for a weak resume and for just being a brawler and a knock out artist against weak opposition, how can you defend Tyson then?

GGG/Canelo

Credit to both Canlo Alvarez and GGG on a terrific fight but am not going to mince my words when it comes to GGG's performance or judge him like one of his fans despite routing for him (see my posts in this thread). You can take a poll of the entire universe, it won't really mean anything because the perfect outcome for them is one which involves their favourite fighter winning, however industry experts did not have a problem with the result including GGG's own trainer Abel Sanchez, he gave support to the judges and pointed out how they were positioned all around the ring with the best eye beyond the corner men, in his own words GGG only did things which were available to him although he did hope for much better.

If fans scored fights, Ricky Hatton would have been ahead on the score cards before he was stopped by Mayweather. Pro Boxing is not a sport which can be measured by statistics, you take them with a pinch of salt or else we would be relying on the amateur incarnations scoring system. You can clearly see from this picture after the fight and the action what those numbers do not show:

A robbery is a fight where one decisively dominates 80%+ of the fight and still finds himself on the losing end, the judges and Canelo did not screw GGG, GGG screwed GGG because this wasn't a fight which he dominated in such fashion, we can say the same from the POV of Canelo to an extent to, this is why when there's a couple of points in it and one or the other gets the nod in a competitive bout no one can really complain, but it's not really an issue among the purists. Canelo fought a better fight and GGG failed to do all the things he said he would do, am surprised this has not been highlighted enough. He did not attack the body, cut the ring or put any significant combinations together, largely due to Canelo taking away the effectiveness of his jab.

GGG is not going to be the same fighter he was at 25 but in this era especially with the knowledge available when it comes to sports science, we do have plenty of late bloomers, Wladmir almost beat AJ despite being 40+, Bernard Hopkins holds multiple worlds record for being the oldest world champion in his 40s, Rocky Mariciano retired undefeated in his 30s, Floyd Mayweather had the greatest run of his career in his 30s, other famous late bloomers include Earnier Shavers and Sergio Matinez. If GGG belongs in the same class then his age shouldn't be an issue, more over he is hardly an old man as it is and his biggest weapon in power is the last thing you lose as a fighter and he was unable to do any damage with it.

GGG would struggle against Canelo whether it was 2012 or 2017, styles make fights and his systematic brawling is tailor made for a counter punching technician like Canelo, he just moves forward methodically throwing his jab without feinting it, against journeyman who lack lateral movement, speed and ring generalship he will be able to land it successfully, cut them off and set up his power punches, more over he'd be able to work on the inside to, but when you're up against someone who is faster, sharper and light on their feet it isn't so easy, if it wasn't for GGG's granite chin he would get stopped brutally by a Canelo, he was looking one dimensional even against Kell Brook before his team threw in the pre-meditated towel. Kell lacks heart but he has some skill, been world champ and the most important in this example is that he was another counter puncher.

Canelo does have weaknesses (which is why he struggles vs Jacobs and BJS) but over the last couple of years he has added more strings to his bow which I didn't think he would be capable off and the biggest being his foot movement, no longer is he flat footed and while his ring generalship has been excellent with more experience his adaptability has become his biggest strength, very rare to see a fighter go from being a counter puncher which plods forward with poor technique (the youngster who fought Floyd) to one which can move laterally to one which can hold his own vs a brawler in the pocket with his speed and upper body movement to slip / slide loaded up punches. There is no shame in losing rounds to Amir Khan, I mean who is able to do it consistently! the only way to beat him is by knock out, I never both scoring his fights which makes watching them even more enjoyable.

Mike Tyson

GGG doesn't deserve a comparison to the great Iron Mike Tyson who is a member of every elite Boxing Hall of Fame, unlike Triple G he was no brawler (one with a good jab may I add), Tyson was a technically sound KO artist at his peak and no fighter in the history of our sport has dismantled fighters in the fashion he did.

Tyson's career was that of two phases, one under Cus D'amato and Kevin Rooney, then the second phase under... his own demons. Tyson at his peak was invincible despite being handicaped as a HW by his lack of height he made incredible use of Cus D'amato's peak a boo style which revolves around placing your hands in front of your face, improving your protection with the forearms in front of the face and the fist at nose-eye level whilst Tyson moved his head side to side, bobbing, weaving and blind siding his opponents with counters. During this period Tyson was invincible and undefeated then in 1988 (prior to the Douglas defeat) many of his problems outside the ring were starting to come to light.

For one his marriage to Robin Givens was heading for divorce, he was abusing various substances, did not train properly and it all culminated in one of his greatest mistakes in allowing Don King and Bill Cayton to buy out his contract; these fools were instrumental in getting Kevin Rooney fired who was instrumental in honing Tyson's craft and Peek-a-Boo style; when he was fired Tyson was no longer effective, he completely dropped the peek a boo style, there was zero head movement and he relied mostly on his freakish power to win fights because never go into the ring with a proper training camp behind him or game plan, his only goal would be to make weight so he wouldn't lose his title on the scales and get paid. It all would culminate in that defeat to Douglas who should have been counted out in the 8th round were it not for incompetent reffing.

Then in the 90's the less said the better, the issues I point out in 1988 would be magnified and he was past his best days but given his raw talent, still managed to win the undisputed HW Championship.

I'v never really understood where these rumours regarding Tyson's resume originated from, my understanding is that it is mostly folk who have never studied or followed heavyweight boxing in the 80's but no problem we can go through it:

Larry Holms - This was the only KO loss of his career and after losing to Mike he won a further 22 bouts and lost just 3 times.

Michael Spinks - Tyson's greatest win, Spinks was the Lineal Heavyweight Champion and the man who beat the man (Much like Tyson Fury in the current era), he was an undefeated 2 weight world champion and both Tyson and Spinks were both in the top two spots of the best Heavyweights in the world, in the biggest fight of all time at the time (shattered all box office records) Tyson beat Spinks within seconds!

Trevo Berbick - World Champion, defeated Page, Tate and Ali; also went the distance with Holms.

James Bonecrusher - Beat Witherspoon in just one round! KO win over Bruno as well. He was no can at all. You can judge him perform for yourself on youtube.

Bruno - Due to some high profile losses he tends to fall under the radar but is one of the best heavy weights we have ever produced in British Boxing history, he lost to prime Tyson but prior to that was performing well before being stopped by the highly ranked Witherspoon and James Bonecrusher (same can be said with regards to his fight with Lewis), Frank would lose once again to the 90's Tyson but prior to that had become World Champion by beating a McCall who dethroned Lennox Lewis when his brains were still working.

Pinklon Thomas - One of the most talented all round boxers in the aftermath of Holms reign, he had just one defeat to Berbick before he challenged Tyson.

Tucker - A gold medalist at the pan american games, he was one of the best heavyweights of the 80s in america, was 34-0 prior to challenging Mike and one of his wins included Buster Douglas who would then go onto beat the likes of Berbck, McCall and Tyson himself after that.

Tyrell Biggs - Was a former world champion and Olympic Gold medalist, undefeated prior to facing Tyson and was soundly beaten.

Carl Williams - Had a record of 22 wins and 2 defeats coming into the fight, one of his defeats was to former world champion Holms in a controversial fight in which he competed very well.

Tilman - This is a very under rated win in my opinion, Tyson was coming into the fight on the back of a beating from Douglas; Tilman had won Olympic gold as an amateur and at that level held 2 wins over Mike, it all could have gone quiet wrong as Mike you'd think would have been affected by his defeat to Douglas, but then Tilman was blown away as if he was nothing in just 1 round.

Ruddock - Another under rated win partly due to how he was beaten swiftly by Lewis, but coming into a fight with Tyson he had lost just once and had a great career before turning pro. He performed quiet well against Tyson in both fights in a losing cause.

Many of these Tyson victims suffered severe reputation loss after being dismantled by Tyson and the KO's also ripped a piece of their soul, the 80's were notorious for substance abuse and all said fighters dealt with the defeat with drugs, this also played a role in how well they would do in the division in years which would pass but their individual skill can never be in doubt especially if you watched them perform, they were a product of the golden era and would have competed very well in the 70s but a combination of narcotics and the shear brilliance of Mike Tyson ruined their pursuits in the sport. But they did forge very impressive streaks in the lead up to their challenge of Tyson. Douglas in a way is a great example of talent in 80s, many would look at him and say, oh what a bum! 44-1 under dog! etc, but if you watched the fight it was rare to see a man Busters size move so well, he was fast, sharp and put his punches together so well, he had shown the same ability vs Tucker as well. It's a shame he lacked the consistency required to remain at the top.

Beyond these names there were plenty of other fringe contenders to, I find it hard to accept that anyone would put GGG's resume on a level playing field as Mike Tyson who ranks inside the top 3 for facing the most world champions in heavyweight boxing history.

Final Thoughts

GGG is a great fighter, but despite being ranked among the top P4P fighters in the world today he has struggled to dominate both Jacobs and Canelo, there is no signature performance against an elite talent for him to boast but that's not to take away from his effort in both fights against Canelo but I do feel his fans overly rate him based on a KO streak vs inferior opposition, in many cases some who were moving up from 2 weights below him! You can still make an argument for him among the best 160 lb fighters ever but I can't see him beating Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, Duran or Bernard Hopkins, I'd put him a tier below those names, Canelo can end his career in the same likeness of the real fab 4 of international sport.

But right now I think it is more important to appreciate both fighters for putting on on hell of a fight and showing their world class pedigree, am not a fan of belittling the wins of fighters who earned their victory or getting too caught up in the result unless it was a day light robbery which was not the case here; am not denying that judges can be favourable to the A side in Vegas but a close fight like this, we can't complain. I wanted GGG to win as well and was disappointed, but he was beaten by the better fighter. In the end the real winners were the Boxing fans, never forget that.

 

[shaz619]

Really disappointment in BJS, this is too far. [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

Am a big fan of his as you know but I can't defend that mate, I think it's unacceptable mainly from the POV of exploiting someone who clearly has serious mental health issues. BJS is a prankster but I don't believe he was using his brain here and the behaviour was pathetic, as a fan of his Boxing I hope he isn't penalised severely for this by the board. The Police will be getting involved as well however, just silly stuff from Billy what the heck

 

[shaz619]

GGG/Canelo

Credit to both Canlo Alvarez and GGG on a terrific fight but am not going to mince my words when it comes to GGG's performance or judge him like one of his fans despite routing for him (see my posts in this thread). You can take a poll of the entire universe, it won't really mean anything because the perfect outcome for them is one which involves their favourite fighter winning, however industry experts did not have a problem with the result including GGG's own trainer Abel Sanchez, he gave support to the judges and pointed out how they were positioned all around the ring with the best eye beyond the corner men, in his own words GGG only did things which were available to him although he did hope for much better.

If fans scored fights, Ricky Hatton would have been ahead on the score cards before he was stopped by Mayweather. Pro Boxing is not a sport which can be measured by statistics, you take them with a pinch of salt or else we would be relying on the amateur incarnations scoring system. You can clearly see from this picture after the fight and the action what those numbers do not show:

A robbery is a fight where one decisively dominates 80%+ of the fight and still finds himself on the losing end, the judges and Canelo did not screw GGG, GGG screwed GGG because this wasn't a fight which he dominated in such fashion, we can say the same from the POV of Canelo to an extent to, this is why when there's a couple of points in it and one or the other gets the nod in a competitive bout no one can really complain, but it's not really an issue among the purists. Canelo fought a better fight and GGG failed to do all the things he said he would do, am surprised this has not been highlighted enough. He did not attack the body, cut the ring or put any significant combinations together, largely due to Canelo taking away the effectiveness of his jab.

GGG is not going to be the same fighter he was at 25 but in this era especially with the knowledge available when it comes to sports science, we do have plenty of late bloomers, Wladmir almost beat AJ despite being 40+, Bernard Hopkins holds multiple worlds record for being the oldest world champion in his 40s, Rocky Mariciano retired undefeated in his 30s, Floyd Mayweather had the greatest run of his career in his 30s, other famous late bloomers include Earnier Shavers and Sergio Matinez. If GGG belongs in the same class then his age shouldn't be an issue, more over he is hardly an old man as it is and his biggest weapon in power is the last thing you lose as a fighter and he was unable to do any damage with it.

GGG would struggle against Canelo whether it was 2012 or 2017, styles make fights and his systematic brawling is tailor made for a counter punching technician like Canelo, he just moves forward methodically throwing his jab without feinting it, against journeyman who lack lateral movement, speed and ring generalship he will be able to land it successfully, cut them off and set up his power punches, more over he'd be able to work on the inside to, but when you're up against someone who is faster, sharper and light on their feet it isn't so easy, if it wasn't for GGG's granite chin he would get stopped brutally by a Canelo, he was looking one dimensional even against Kell Brook before his team threw in the pre-meditated towel. Kell lacks heart but he has some skill, been world champ and the most important in this example is that he was another counter puncher.

Canelo does have weaknesses (which is why he struggles vs Jacobs and BJS) but over the last couple of years he has added more strings to his bow which I didn't think he would be capable off and the biggest being his foot movement, no longer is he flat footed and while his ring generalship has been excellent with more experience his adaptability has become his biggest strength, very rare to see a fighter go from being a counter puncher which plods forward with poor technique (the youngster who fought Floyd) to one which can move laterally to one which can hold his own vs a brawler in the pocket with his speed and upper body movement to slip / slide loaded up punches. There is no shame in losing rounds to Amir Khan, I mean who is able to do it consistently! the only way to beat him is by knock out, I never both scoring his fights which makes watching them even more enjoyable.

Mike Tyson

GGG doesn't deserve a comparison to the great Iron Mike Tyson who is a member of every elite Boxing Hall of Fame, unlike Triple G he was no brawler (one with a good jab may I add), Tyson was a technically sound KO artist at his peak and no fighter in the history of our sport has dismantled fighters in the fashion he did.

Tyson's career was that of two phases, one under Cus D'amato and Kevin Rooney, then the second phase under... his own demons. Tyson at his peak was invincible despite being handicaped as a HW by his lack of height he made incredible use of Cus D'amato's peak a boo style which revolves around placing your hands in front of your face, improving your protection with the forearms in front of the face and the fist at nose-eye level whilst Tyson moved his head side to side, bobbing, weaving and blind siding his opponents with counters. During this period Tyson was invincible and undefeated then in 1988 (prior to the Douglas defeat) many of his problems outside the ring were starting to come to light.

For one his marriage to Robin Givens was heading for divorce, he was abusing various substances, did not train properly and it all culminated in one of his greatest mistakes in allowing Don King and Bill Cayton to buy out his contract; these fools were instrumental in getting Kevin Rooney fired who was instrumental in honing Tyson's craft and Peek-a-Boo style; when he was fired Tyson was no longer effective, he completely dropped the peek a boo style, there was zero head movement and he relied mostly on his freakish power to win fights because never go into the ring with a proper training camp behind him or game plan, his only goal would be to make weight so he wouldn't lose his title on the scales and get paid. It all would culminate in that defeat to Douglas who should have been counted out in the 8th round were it not for incompetent reffing.

Then in the 90's the less said the better, the issues I point out in 1988 would be magnified and he was past his best days but given his raw talent, still managed to win the undisputed HW Championship.

I'v never really understood where these rumours regarding Tyson's resume originated from, my understanding is that it is mostly folk who have never studied or followed heavyweight boxing in the 80's but no problem we can go through it:

Larry Holms - This was the only KO loss of his career and after losing to Mike he won a further 22 bouts and lost just 3 times.

Michael Spinks - Tyson's greatest win, Spinks was the Lineal Heavyweight Champion and the man who beat the man (Much like Tyson Fury in the current era), he was an undefeated 2 weight world champion and both Tyson and Spinks were both in the top two spots of the best Heavyweights in the world, in the biggest fight of all time at the time (shattered all box office records) Tyson beat Spinks within seconds!

Trevo Berbick - World Champion, defeated Page, Tate and Ali; also went the distance with Holms.

James Bonecrusher - Beat Witherspoon in just one round! KO win over Bruno as well. He was no can at all. You can judge him perform for yourself on youtube.

Bruno - Due to some high profile losses he tends to fall under the radar but is one of the best heavy weights we have ever produced in British Boxing history, he lost to prime Tyson but prior to that was performing well before being stopped by the highly ranked Witherspoon and James Bonecrusher (same can be said with regards to his fight with Lewis), Frank would lose once again to the 90's Tyson but prior to that had become World Champion by beating a McCall who dethroned Lennox Lewis when his brains were still working.

Pinklon Thomas - One of the most talented all round boxers in the aftermath of Holms reign, he had just one defeat to Berbick before he challenged Tyson.

Tucker - A gold medalist at the pan american games, he was one of the best heavyweights of the 80s in america, was 34-0 prior to challenging Mike and one of his wins included Buster Douglas who would then go onto beat the likes of Berbck, McCall and Tyson himself after that.

Tyrell Biggs - Was a former world champion and Olympic Gold medalist, undefeated prior to facing Tyson and was soundly beaten.

Carl Williams - Had a record of 22 wins and 2 defeats coming into the fight, one of his defeats was to former world champion Holms in a controversial fight in which he competed very well.

Tilman - This is a very under rated win in my opinion, Tyson was coming into the fight on the back of a beating from Douglas; Tilman had won Olympic gold as an amateur and at that level held 2 wins over Mike, it all could have gone quiet wrong as Mike you'd think would have been affected by his defeat to Douglas, but then Tilman was blown away as if he was nothing in just 1 round.

Ruddock - Another under rated win partly due to how he was beaten swiftly by Lewis, but coming into a fight with Tyson he had lost just once and had a great career before turning pro. He performed quiet well against Tyson in both fights in a losing cause.

Many of these Tyson victims suffered severe reputation loss after being dismantled by Tyson and the KO's also ripped a piece of their soul, the 80's were notorious for substance abuse and all said fighters dealt with the defeat with drugs, this also played a role in how well they would do in the division in years which would pass but their individual skill can never be in doubt especially if you watched them perform, they were a product of the golden era and would have competed very well in the 70s but a combination of narcotics and the shear brilliance of Mike Tyson ruined their pursuits in the sport. But they did forge very impressive streaks in the lead up to their challenge of Tyson. Douglas in a way is a great example of talent in 80s, many would look at him and say, oh what a bum! 44-1 under dog! etc, but if you watched the fight it was rare to see a man Busters size move so well, he was fast, sharp and put his punches together so well, he had shown the same ability vs Tucker as well. It's a shame he lacked the consistency required to remain at the top.

Beyond these names there were plenty of other fringe contenders to, I find it hard to accept that anyone would put GGG's resume on a level playing field as Mike Tyson who ranks inside the top 3 for facing the most world champions in heavyweight boxing history.

Final Thoughts

GGG is a great fighter, but despite being ranked among the top P4P fighters in the world today he has struggled to dominate both Jacobs and Canelo, there is no signature performance against an elite talent for him to boast but that's not to take away from his effort in both fights against Canelo but I do feel his fans overly rate him based on a KO streak vs inferior opposition, in many cases some who were moving up from 2 weights below him! You can still make an argument for him among the best 160 lb fighters ever but I can't see him beating Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, Duran or Bernard Hopkins, I'd put him a tier below those names, Canelo can end his career in the same likeness of the real fab 4 of international sport.

But right now I think it is more important to appreciate both fighters for putting on on hell of a fight and showing their world class pedigree, am not a fan of belittling the wins of fighters who earned their victory or getting too caught up in the result unless it was a day light robbery which was not the case here; am not denying that judges can be favourable to the A side in Vegas but a close fight like this, we can't complain. I wanted GGG to win as well and was disappointed, but he was beaten by the better fighter. In the end the real winners were the Boxing fans, never forget that.

[MENTION=142288]TQ89[/MENTION] Is very under rated poster on combat and followed Tyson's career very closely, let me know if I've missed anything out or made any mistakes, but I've been reading the Undisputed Truth and watching Forgotten fighters although not finished yet but have watched the greatest highlights of of Witherspoon, Bonecrusher, Spinks and Tucker recently; these blokes were fighting men. Forgotten Fighters chronicles Michael Dokes, a great example of the what could have been in the 80s; very few could match his speed and he had buckets of raw talent as a heavyweight, he underachieved due to the narcotics boom / substance abuse in addition to signing with Don King who didn't pay you properly, controlled your life in / outside the ring and destroyed your will to live, Tyson was not the only heavyweight he ruined, many careers at Heavyweight were ruined in the 80s due to his influence.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Am a big fan of his as you know but I can't defend that mate, I think it's unacceptable mainly from the POV of exploiting someone who clearly has serious mental health issues. BJS is a prankster but I don't believe he was using his brain here and the behaviour was pathetic, as a fan of his Boxing I hope he isn't penalised severely for this by the board. The Police will be getting involved as well however, just silly stuff from Billy what the heck

I am also a big fan, his boxing has been a breath of fresh air ever since he beat Eubank jnr. Billy just went a bit too far but as you say exploiting that woman was plain wrong, crossed the line of banta.

He may get a few months suspension, nothing more which would be fair imo.

 

[TQ89]

[MENTION=142288]TQ89[/MENTION] Is very under rated poster on combat and followed Tyson's career very closely, let me know if I've missed anything out or made any mistakes, but I've been reading the Undisputed Truth and watching Forgotten fighters although not finished yet but have watched the greatest highlights of of Witherspoon, Bonecrusher, Spinks and Tucker recently; these blokes were fighting men. Forgotten Fighters chronicles Michael Dokes, a great example of the what could have been in the 80s; very few could match his speed and he had buckets of raw talent as a heavyweight, he underachieved due to the narcotics boom / substance abuse in addition to signing with Don King who didn't pay you properly, controlled your life in / outside the ring and destroyed your will to live, Tyson was not the only heavyweight he ruined, many careers at Heavyweight were ruined in the 80s due to his influence.

You took the words out of my mouth bro. There is no fighter i would rather compare with tyson. The fact of the matter is tyson is considered a brawler by many casual fans (this is not a diss on the OP above as i am not thet active on PP these days, i am basing this on my discussion with lot of folks in sherdog boxing forum which i used to frequent a lot in 2009-2013.)

Tyson was never a brawler. He was a technically sound pressure fighter, a perfect combination of brawns & brain. There is ton of difference btw being pressure fighter & a brawler. Good examples of brawler would be George Foreman in 70's, Rocky marciano in the 40's/50's. Tyson belongs in the joe frazier category (as both were tremendous pressure fighters) but he was blessed with raw athleticism & power that is unprecedented even among heavyweights. There is a reason he topped espn's hardest hitters list.

The less said about his performance in the 90's, the better. He was only utilized to sell PPV's to casual fans & he made a lot of money doing that breaking multiple records in the process. But he was never the same as he was in 1984-1988. Also that weak opponents claim has been debunked many times i think by me & you in a separate mike tyson thread but it wont matter to those who don't like him anyway. I cant & never will defend his 90's where Don king booked him against easy opponents to make him look good such as his fight before tyson vs holyfield one (the night tupac died)& fooled viewers into thinking tyson was way more dangerous than he actually was.

GGG although is tough & has a lot of heart but he is not ATG material. I don't hate him but i am also not a fan of his. It would be foolish to compare GGG with tyson based solely on their fighting style. Tyson fighting was very very technical in the 80's where as GGG always had issues with lateral movement but made it because of his grit.

Tyson's major weakness was his reach which was exceptionally short for a heavyweight which is what makes his achievements more admirable cause nearly every guy he fought in the 85-90 had a significant reach advantage over him.

 

[Red Devil]

GGG/Canelo

Credit to both Canlo Alvarez and GGG on a terrific fight but am not going to mince my words when it comes to GGG's performance or judge him like one of his fans despite routing for him (see my posts in this thread). You can take a poll of the entire universe, it won't really mean anything because the perfect outcome for them is one which involves their favourite fighter winning, however industry experts did not have a problem with the result including GGG's own trainer Abel Sanchez, he gave support to the judges and pointed out how they were positioned all around the ring with the best eye beyond the corner men, in his own words GGG only did things which were available to him although he did hope for much better.

If fans scored fights, Ricky Hatton would have been ahead on the score cards before he was stopped by Mayweather. Pro Boxing is not a sport which can be measured by statistics, you take them with a pinch of salt or else we would be relying on the amateur incarnations scoring system. You can clearly see from this picture after the fight and the action what those numbers do not show:

A robbery is a fight where one decisively dominates 80%+ of the fight and still finds himself on the losing end, the judges and Canelo did not screw GGG, GGG screwed GGG because this wasn't a fight which he dominated in such fashion, we can say the same from the POV of Canelo to an extent to, this is why when there's a couple of points in it and one or the other gets the nod in a competitive bout no one can really complain, but it's not really an issue among the purists. Canelo fought a better fight and GGG failed to do all the things he said he would do, am surprised this has not been highlighted enough. He did not attack the body, cut the ring or put any significant combinations together, largely due to Canelo taking away the effectiveness of his jab.

GGG is not going to be the same fighter he was at 25 but in this era especially with the knowledge available when it comes to sports science, we do have plenty of late bloomers, Wladmir almost beat AJ despite being 40+, Bernard Hopkins holds multiple worlds record for being the oldest world champion in his 40s, Rocky Mariciano retired undefeated in his 30s, Floyd Mayweather had the greatest run of his career in his 30s, other famous late bloomers include Earnier Shavers and Sergio Matinez. If GGG belongs in the same class then his age shouldn't be an issue, more over he is hardly an old man as it is and his biggest weapon in power is the last thing you lose as a fighter and he was unable to do any damage with it.

GGG would struggle against Canelo whether it was 2012 or 2017, styles make fights and his systematic brawling is tailor made for a counter punching technician like Canelo, he just moves forward methodically throwing his jab without feinting it, against journeyman who lack lateral movement, speed and ring generalship he will be able to land it successfully, cut them off and set up his power punches, more over he'd be able to work on the inside to, but when you're up against someone who is faster, sharper and light on their feet it isn't so easy, if it wasn't for GGG's granite chin he would get stopped brutally by a Canelo, he was looking one dimensional even against Kell Brook before his team threw in the pre-meditated towel. Kell lacks heart but he has some skill, been world champ and the most important in this example is that he was another counter puncher.

Canelo does have weaknesses (which is why he struggles vs Jacobs and BJS) but over the last couple of years he has added more strings to his bow which I didn't think he would be capable off and the biggest being his foot movement, no longer is he flat footed and while his ring generalship has been excellent with more experience his adaptability has become his biggest strength, very rare to see a fighter go from being a counter puncher which plods forward with poor technique (the youngster who fought Floyd) to one which can move laterally to one which can hold his own vs a brawler in the pocket with his speed and upper body movement to slip / slide loaded up punches. There is no shame in losing rounds to Amir Khan, I mean who is able to do it consistently! the only way to beat him is by knock out, I never both scoring his fights which makes watching them even more enjoyable.

Mike Tyson

GGG doesn't deserve a comparison to the great Iron Mike Tyson who is a member of every elite Boxing Hall of Fame, unlike Triple G he was no brawler (one with a good jab may I add), Tyson was a technically sound KO artist at his peak and no fighter in the history of our sport has dismantled fighters in the fashion he did.

Tyson's career was that of two phases, one under Cus D'amato and Kevin Rooney, then the second phase under... his own demons. Tyson at his peak was invincible despite being handicaped as a HW by his lack of height he made incredible use of Cus D'amato's peak a boo style which revolves around placing your hands in front of your face, improving your protection with the forearms in front of the face and the fist at nose-eye level whilst Tyson moved his head side to side, bobbing, weaving and blind siding his opponents with counters. During this period Tyson was invincible and undefeated then in 1988 (prior to the Douglas defeat) many of his problems outside the ring were starting to come to light.

For one his marriage to Robin Givens was heading for divorce, he was abusing various substances, did not train properly and it all culminated in one of his greatest mistakes in allowing Don King and Bill Cayton to buy out his contract; these fools were instrumental in getting Kevin Rooney fired who was instrumental in honing Tyson's craft and Peek-a-Boo style; when he was fired Tyson was no longer effective, he completely dropped the peek a boo style, there was zero head movement and he relied mostly on his freakish power to win fights because never go into the ring with a proper training camp behind him or game plan, his only goal would be to make weight so he wouldn't lose his title on the scales and get paid. It all would culminate in that defeat to Douglas who should have been counted out in the 8th round were it not for incompetent reffing.

Then in the 90's the less said the better, the issues I point out in 1988 would be magnified and he was past his best days but given his raw talent, still managed to win the undisputed HW Championship.

I'v never really understood where these rumours regarding Tyson's resume originated from, my understanding is that it is mostly folk who have never studied or followed heavyweight boxing in the 80's but no problem we can go through it:

Larry Holms - This was the only KO loss of his career and after losing to Mike he won a further 22 bouts and lost just 3 times.

Michael Spinks - Tyson's greatest win, Spinks was the Lineal Heavyweight Champion and the man who beat the man (Much like Tyson Fury in the current era), he was an undefeated 2 weight world champion and both Tyson and Spinks were both in the top two spots of the best Heavyweights in the world, in the biggest fight of all time at the time (shattered all box office records) Tyson beat Spinks within seconds!

Trevo Berbick - World Champion, defeated Page, Tate and Ali; also went the distance with Holms.

James Bonecrusher - Beat Witherspoon in just one round! KO win over Bruno as well. He was no can at all. You can judge him perform for yourself on youtube.

Bruno - Due to some high profile losses he tends to fall under the radar but is one of the best heavy weights we have ever produced in British Boxing history, he lost to prime Tyson but prior to that was performing well before being stopped by the highly ranked Witherspoon and James Bonecrusher (same can be said with regards to his fight with Lewis), Frank would lose once again to the 90's Tyson but prior to that had become World Champion by beating a McCall who dethroned Lennox Lewis when his brains were still working.

Pinklon Thomas - One of the most talented all round boxers in the aftermath of Holms reign, he had just one defeat to Berbick before he challenged Tyson.

Tucker - A gold medalist at the pan american games, he was one of the best heavyweights of the 80s in america, was 34-0 prior to challenging Mike and one of his wins included Buster Douglas who would then go onto beat the likes of Berbck, McCall and Tyson himself after that.

Tyrell Biggs - Was a former world champion and Olympic Gold medalist, undefeated prior to facing Tyson and was soundly beaten.

Carl Williams - Had a record of 22 wins and 2 defeats coming into the fight, one of his defeats was to former world champion Holms in a controversial fight in which he competed very well.

Tilman - This is a very under rated win in my opinion, Tyson was coming into the fight on the back of a beating from Douglas; Tilman had won Olympic gold as an amateur and at that level held 2 wins over Mike, it all could have gone quiet wrong as Mike you'd think would have been affected by his defeat to Douglas, but then Tilman was blown away as if he was nothing in just 1 round.

Ruddock - Another under rated win partly due to how he was beaten swiftly by Lewis, but coming into a fight with Tyson he had lost just once and had a great career before turning pro. He performed quiet well against Tyson in both fights in a losing cause.

Many of these Tyson victims suffered severe reputation loss after being dismantled by Tyson and the KO's also ripped a piece of their soul, the 80's were notorious for substance abuse and all said fighters dealt with the defeat with drugs, this also played a role in how well they would do in the division in years which would pass but their individual skill can never be in doubt especially if you watched them perform, they were a product of the golden era and would have competed very well in the 70s but a combination of narcotics and the shear brilliance of Mike Tyson ruined their pursuits in the sport. But they did forge very impressive streaks in the lead up to their challenge of Tyson. Douglas in a way is a great example of talent in 80s, many would look at him and say, oh what a bum! 44-1 under dog! etc, but if you watched the fight it was rare to see a man Busters size move so well, he was fast, sharp and put his punches together so well, he had shown the same ability vs Tucker as well. It's a shame he lacked the consistency required to remain at the top.

Beyond these names there were plenty of other fringe contenders to, I find it hard to accept that anyone would put GGG's resume on a level playing field as Mike Tyson who ranks inside the top 3 for facing the most world champions in heavyweight boxing history.

Final Thoughts

GGG is a great fighter, but despite being ranked among the top P4P fighters in the world today he has struggled to dominate both Jacobs and Canelo, there is no signature performance against an elite talent for him to boast but that's not to take away from his effort in both fights against Canelo but I do feel his fans overly rate him based on a KO streak vs inferior opposition, in many cases some who were moving up from 2 weights below him! You can still make an argument for him among the best 160 lb fighters ever but I can't see him beating Leonard, Hagler, Hearns, Duran or Bernard Hopkins, I'd put him a tier below those names, Canelo can end his career in the same likeness of the real fab 4 of international sport.

But right now I think it is more important to appreciate both fighters for putting on on hell of a fight and showing their world class pedigree, am not a fan of belittling the wins of fighters who earned their victory or getting too caught up in the result unless it was a day light robbery which was not the case here; am not denying that judges can be favourable to the A side in Vegas but a close fight like this, we can't complain. I wanted GGG to win as well and was disappointed, but he was beaten by the better fighter. In the end the real winners were the Boxing fans, never forget that.

What a fantastic post. Very insightful and astute analysis!

I'd like to nominate this for POTW [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION]

 

[Abdullah719]

What a fantastic post. Very insightful and astute analysis!

I'd like to nominate this for POTW [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION]

Consider it done.

 

[Bilal7]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] - Do you see Khan beating Brook if that fight ends up happening? I think that is too much risk for little reward. He's better off fighting Manny first and then going after Brook. Should also look for a potential title match to solidify his legacy and then retire.

 

[shaz619]

You took the words out of my mouth bro. There is no fighter i would rather compare with tyson. The fact of the matter is tyson is considered a brawler by many casual fans (this is not a diss on the OP above as i am not thet active on PP these days, i am basing this on my discussion with lot of folks in sherdog boxing forum which i used to frequent a lot in 2009-2013.)

Tyson was never a brawler. He was a technically sound pressure fighter, a perfect combination of brawns & brain. There is ton of difference btw being pressure fighter & a brawler. Good examples of brawler would be George Foreman in 70's, Rocky marciano in the 40's/50's. Tyson belongs in the joe frazier category (as both were tremendous pressure fighters) but he was blessed with raw athleticism & power that is unprecedented even among heavyweights. There is a reason he topped espn's hardest hitters list.

The less said about his performance in the 90's, the better. He was only utilized to sell PPV's to casual fans & he made a lot of money doing that breaking multiple records in the process. But he was never the same as he was in 1984-1988. Also that weak opponents claim has been debunked many times i think by me & you in a separate mike tyson thread but it wont matter to those who don't like him anyway. I cant & never will defend his 90's where Don king booked him against easy opponents to make him look good such as his fight before tyson vs holyfield one (the night tupac died)& fooled viewers into thinking tyson was way more dangerous than he actually was.

GGG although is tough & has a lot of heart but he is not ATG material. I don't hate him but i am also not a fan of his. It would be foolish to compare GGG with tyson based solely on their fighting style. Tyson fighting was very very technical in the 80's where as GGG always had issues with lateral movement but made it because of his grit.

Tyson's major weakness was his reach which was exceptionally short for a heavyweight which is what makes his achievements more admirable cause nearly every guy he fought in the 85-90 had a significant reach advantage over him.

Great post bro, totally agree with you. A guy like Mike should never have done as well as he did, if you look at all the heavyweights at a similar height as him they did not acheive no where near as much success. Boxing forums in general have declined now, I use to like east side boxing before it was revamped but majority of folk come across as drunk yobs. We have much better discussions on PP.

 

[shaz619]

[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] - Do you see Khan beating Brook if that fight ends up happening? I think that is too much risk for little reward. He's better off fighting Manny first and then going after Brook. Should also look for a potential title match to solidify his legacy and then retire.

Brook would defo have the edge over him, I think Amir at this point is just passed it and his movement isn't effortless like it use to be and there ought to be more lapses when it comes to his lack of focus. Khan has fought of his back foot during his entire career and when you get older you're no longer able to rely on some of your natural gifts, I don't think Amir is capable of making adjustments to fight a bit more flat footed. He has had a long lay off so he could prove me wrong but I just think he has nothing to prove and should call it a day, agreed; Manny should be the fight he targets without a doubt.

 

[KingKhanWC]

What a fantastic post. Very insightful and astute analysis!

I'd like to nominate this for POTW [MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION]

+1

Shazbear has kept this thread alive with his great boxing knowledge and his excellent writing skills. One of his many superb posts.
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]


Prediction for tomorrow AJ v Pov? Round and method please.

 

[shaz619]

+1

Shazbear has kept this thread alive with his great boxing knowledge and his excellent writing skills. One of his many superb posts.
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]


Prediction for tomorrow AJ v Pov? Round and method please.

Thanks bro, you and TQ89 are amazing to love talking to you guys about boxing.

Am going for AJ by KO, not sure what round it will be but I"ll say between 6-12. Povetkin is tough but he is old now and no longer on the juice to help him out he was unable to stop Christian Hammer and even my neigbours grandma would be able to get showreel KO over Price but that's not to say that Povetkin won't carry pop because he will. He's a small guy and it goes back my post just now about how special Tyson was because no one could do the things he could at a similar height, Povetkin is around about the same height as Tyson but isn't so explosive in his movement, Tysons movement was so under rated his footwork was exceptional; one of the basics of improving it is skipping and am sure you'd have seen plenty of Tyson's videos where he is jumping the rope like a middleweight, just watching him train during his prime was a spectacle in itself lol

The last big guy Povetkin fought was Wladmir and he didn't fair so well, I still see him having his moments and wouldn't be shocked if he drops AJ but would still see this as an upset if he manages to pull of a win, his best shot is for AJ to fight him on the inside. If AJ boxes behind his jab then it will be an easy win for him but there's pressure on Femi X to deliver an exciting fight for the casuals after his dull performances in the last couple of stadiums.

What is your prediction mate? does Povetkin have a shot in your view?

 

[KingKhanWC]

Thanks bro, you and TQ89 are amazing to love talking to you guys about boxing.

Am going for AJ by KO, not sure what round it will be but I"ll say between 6-12. Povetkin is tough but he is old now and no longer on the juice to help him out he was unable to stop Christian Hammer and even my neigbours grandma would be able to get showreel KO over Price but that's not to say that Povetkin won't carry pop because he will. He's a small guy and it goes back my post just now about how special Tyson was because no one could do the things he could at a similar height, Povetkin is around about the same height as Tyson but isn't so explosive in his movement, Tysons movement was so under rated his footwork was exceptional; one of the basics of improving it is skipping and am sure you'd have seen plenty of Tyson's videos where he is jumping the rope like a middleweight, just watching him train during his prime was a spectacle in itself lol

The last big guy Povetkin fought was Wladmir and he didn't fair so well, I still see him having his moments and wouldn't be shocked if he drops AJ but would still see this as an upset if he manages to pull of a win, his best shot is for AJ to fight him on the inside. If AJ boxes behind his jab then it will be an easy win for him but there's pressure on Femi X to deliver an exciting fight for the casuals after his dull performances in the last couple of stadiums.

What is your prediction mate? does Povetkin have a shot in your view?

I think Povetkin will have trained for his fight harder than he has ever done, this is his final hurrah. The added dimension is he is Russian and the state wants him to win badly against a British fighter in Britain and take his belts. Povetkin knows he will be a Legend in Russia for all time if he can pull this one off. So his motivation cant be better and his fitness and conditioning will be there. However I agree he is past it now esp coming up against a boxer in his prime.

I think AJ will be a cautious but at the same time throw some distance hooks to test him out. It depends on how Povetkin reacts, if he comes back for a tear up AJ will look to pick him off early and go for big blows to knock him out within 6 rounds. If Povetkin is cagy so will AJ and this could turn into a 10 rounder where I then expect AJ to stop him with a flurry of shots. I dont think Povetkin will be knocked out but i am going for a round 10 stoppage to AJ. Povetkins only chance imo is to land a flush left hook right on the chin which will knock down AJ and then to finish him off but this is a long shot in this fight.

 

[shaz619]

I think Povetkin will have trained for his fight harder than he has ever done, this is his final hurrah. The added dimension is he is Russian and the state wants him to win badly against a British fighter in Britain and take his belts. Povetkin knows he will be a Legend in Russia for all time if he can pull this one off. So his motivation cant be better and his fitness and conditioning will be there. However I agree he is past it now esp coming up against a boxer in his prime.

I think AJ will be a cautious but at the same time throw some distance hooks to test him out. It depends on how Povetkin reacts, if he comes back for a tear up AJ will look to pick him off early and go for big blows to knock him out within 6 rounds. If Povetkin is cagy so will AJ and this could turn into a 10 rounder where I then expect AJ to stop him with a flurry of shots. I dont think Povetkin will be knocked out but i am going for a round 10 stoppage to AJ. Povetkins only chance imo is to land a flush left hook right on the chin which will knock down AJ and then to finish him off but this is a long shot in this fight.

Totally agree with you there, that's how I see the fight panning out in those situations as well. You'e right there is a lot on the line from Povetkin's POV so he should turn up in tip top condition and be motivated very highly, he also has the experience of fighting in similar stadiums although he will not have come across such an atmosphere especially after folk have had a few to drink lol Am disappointed with the under card, outside the Luke Campbell fight who I believe is a very special talent there's not a lot to look forward to is there

 

[KingKhanWC]

AJ damaged nose, possibly broken.

Povetkin all over him after 2 rounds.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Good comeback from Joshua to win in round 7. Povetkin tried hard but just didn't have the steam at his age to continue with aggression against the bigger man.

 

[mani1]

Povetkin looked like he gassed after 5 rounds.

 

[shaz619]

AJ damaged nose, possibly broken.

Povetkin all over him after 2 rounds.

Good comeback from Joshua to win in round 7. Povetkin tried hard but just didn't have the steam at his age to continue with aggression against the bigger man.

Povetkin looked like he gassed after 5 rounds.

I had Povetkin up by a point before the stoppage which was expected, Povetkin is skilled but just too old and he did gas, he should have maybe put a bit more in during first half but you can't criticise his effort because he had to be cautious to. What was interesting though, the smaller man was able to establish range early on and he was pivoting quiet well to, AJ had issues with Povetkin's movement which would decline as the rounds progressed. Makes you wonder how tough fights with Fury and Wilder will be for AJ. But beyond that AJ weathered the storm and is a very clinical finisher, good win for him although not perfect at all like sky are pointing out it made for great viewing.

Luke Campbell looked sensational in the co-main event and avenged a close points defeat to the french man from 3 or 4 years ago, he is on another level right now and won around about every round, excellent foot work, nice tight defence, head movement and shoulder roll is there, very good speed and one of the best jabs in the division. So much depth at lightweight but he is the mandatory to Mikey Garcia's WBC title, what a fight that would be; I suspect Garcia will vacate to face Spence though.

 

[Savak]

Povetkin gave AJ a lot of problems, AJ did well to adjust and his strategy of letting Povetkin shoot his load and survive the onslaught and go for the kill later was correct. Eventually Povetkin 39 years of age caught up with him, you can't fight that aggressive inside fighting style for long at that age.

 

[shaaik]

Anthony Joshua stops Alexander Povetkin to retain world heavyweight titles

Anthony Joshua delivered a stunning finish to stop a game Alexander Povetkin and retain his world heavyweight titles at Wembley Stadium.

The IBF, WBO and WBA champion, criticised in some quarters for failing to finalise a deal with the division's other high-profile names, responded emphatically with a seventh-round stoppage of the Russian, who had never been beaten inside the distance.

After an early chess match in which Joshua suffered a bloodied nose before cutting his rival, the Briton grew in confidence and a savage right hand followed by a left hook began an onslaught which would prove telling.

Another right-left combination downed Povetkin, who somehow made the count, only to stagger into a left hook which saw him slump into the ropes, leaving referee Steve Gray with no option but to intervene.

Roars poured down to ringside as the rain had all day, with Joshua's corner ecstatic and rightly so. His display showcased poise, intellect and power, sending a message to the heavyweight division that the champion will take some stopping.


I got my knockout streak back - Joshua

Joshua, who had been suffering from flu during his preparations and had a problem with his right hand before the fight, paid tribute to his opponent.

"Povetkin is a very tough challenger, he proved that with good left hooks and counter punches," he said.

"I came in here to have fun, and give it my best. I knew he was strong to the head but weak to the body. I was just mixing it up.

"It could have been seven, maybe nine, maybe 12 rounds to get him out of there, but the ultimate aim was to be victorious.

"And I got my knockout streak back," added Joshua, who was taken to 12 rounds for the first time in his previous fight against New Zealand's Joseph Parker in Cardiff in April.

Joshua back in limelight after Fury v Wilder announcement

Less than 24 hours after WBC champion Deontay Wilder and Tyson Fury confirmed their 1 December fight, Joshua snatched the heavyweight limelight back his way.

He will be back at Wembley on 13 April and whoever steps in with him next will face questions as to how they thwart the champion after a display like this.

His last outing here was a see-saw encounter with Wladimir Klitschko. On that night, he came of age, setting new levels of excitement and expectation.

The Joshua name now carries such weight that the likes of Povetkin - the 2004 Olympic super-heavyweight champion and a mandatory challenger who had lost just once in 35 outings previously - was arguably overlooked by the masses.

But, crucially, not by Joshua's team. There had been rumblings, even before the fight was signed, that those around him saw Povetkin - who has twice failed doping tests - as a significant risk. The challenger's experience, low centre of gravity and sleight of foot, despite his 39 years, were live threats.

After landing a solid left hook on the bell in the first round, Povetkin clearly had Joshua's attention but by the fourth, the Briton had dropped his lead hand, showing confidence in his judgement of distance against a man known for leaping in with shots from obscure angles.

He slipped a shot in the fourth to drive an uppercut home, drawing groans ringside. With Povetkin cut above his left eye in the fifth, a Joshua right hook found the temple. Then the Russian winged a left hook home in the sixth and he chased his man, sensing vulnerability.

The pair tapped gloves to start the seventh, a sign respect was flowing. But Joshua broke the challenger's heart. From a position of calm, he erupted into life in the middle of the ring, with a corking right hand sending Povetkin backwards and a left hook flowing seamlessly off the back of it.

Moments later, with Povetkin limp against the ropes, it was over - another step in a remarkable career.

With 22 professional bouts under their belts, Wladimir Klitschko, Lennox Lewis and Mike Tyson were still chasing a world title. Joshua, by contrast, has now defended his six times.

'The most impressive display of Joshua's career' - analysis
BBC Sport boxing correspondent Mike Costello: "It was a brilliantly placed and timed right hand. He was getting the measure of Povetkin in the early rounds. Unlike Carlos Takam and Parker - Joshua's last two opponents - Povetkin was here to win.

"I think the quality of opponent, for all Povetkin has done, for me, the way he was beaten makes it the most impressive display of Joshua's career."

BBC Radio 5 live boxing expert Steve Bunce: "It was a cracking right hand. I don't think Joshua was hurt or stung at all and that's an achievement. He was moving great, throwing different shots, so it was controlled and he didn't waste anything."

Who's next?

There will be some who continue to demand a stellar name. Povetkin's failed to sell Wembley out, with around 70,000 turning out on a sodden day.

But the Russian - only beaten by Klitschko in the past - is now a glowing name on Joshua's record.

Taking on the likes of Fury or Wilder next makes sense from a boxing perspective but outside of the ring is a different matter. Negotiations with Wilder have proven tedious, while Fury will need to beat the American in December to be able to face Joshua as soon as April.

Dillian Whyte - already beaten by Joshua but much improved since - appears the most likely candidate at this stage. His own fine form and a long-standing rivalry will be easy sells for Eddie Hearn, who promotes both men.

"My number one choice would be Wilder," said Joshua. "All I want to fight is serious challengers. If Dillian wants to fight here he is also more than welcome."

Heavyweights will continue to call Joshua's name. The type of pay day that comes with a man who has sold more than 300,000 tickets in four fights is a jackpot draw.

After this destructive victory, though, rivals will know they are stepping in with a man who is getting better.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/boxing/45616241

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Povetkin looked like he gassed after 5 rounds.

He is 39 years old so not really that surprising. Also being much smaller than Joshua he had to work a lot harder to make an impact, which he did well to be fair. AJ looked wobbled at the end of that first round and fought very cautiously after that, he seemed very fearful of little Povetkin's power which surprised me. The Russian was a very good fighter, but too small and old too have posed such problems, I think Joshua has been found out as a limited fighter and now I can understand why he has spent the last few years ducking fights with Wilder and Fury.

 

[shaz619]

He is 39 years old so not really that surprising. Also being much smaller than Joshua he had to work a lot harder to make an impact, which he did well to be fair. AJ looked wobbled at the end of that first round and fought very cautiously after that, he seemed very fearful of little Povetkin's power which surprised me. The Russian was a very good fighter, but too small and old too have posed such problems, I think Joshua has been found out as a limited fighter and now I can understand why he has spent the last few years ducking fights with Wilder and Fury.

To AJ's credit though, the storm never phased him and he made some pretty good adjustments by switching the attack to body; earlier he was premeditating with his power shots but that left hook - right hand combo was set up with all the good body work and feints he did. I don't really like him but as a fighter massive respect and he does have a lot of heart, a flawed heavyweight but one which deserve the no.1 spot right now. Fury may have the best win at HW but AJ has the best resume amongst all HW's, that too despite having a smaller number of fighters and a shorter career amateur/pro. Additionally, he has been a credit to UK Boxing in general; the sport will always be healthy but I can't remember a time a British fighter sold out stadiums back to back like this ever.

All AJ, Fury and Wilder are flawed; but without a doubt they are the top 3 Heavyweights in the world and their heart is especially criminally under rated. They have reached heights others in the division can only dream off, a lot of it does come down to their fighting spirit. Wilder is not the most technically sound, AJ is one dimensional and Fury is a mad-hatter; their vulnerabilities keep the division exciting though and debate in head-to-head scenarios are generally polarising. In 2019, am sure we will finally crown the undisputed champion. Can't wait for the first chapter in December, Fury / Wilder is the biggest fight of the year in all of combat.

 

[IMMY69]

To AJ's credit though, the storm never phased him and he made some pretty good adjustments by switching the attack to body; earlier he was premeditating with his power shots but that left hook - right hand combo was set up with all the good body work and feints he did. I don't really like him but as a fighter massive respect and he does have a lot of heart, a flawed heavyweight but one which deserve the no.1 spot right now. Fury may have the best win at HW but AJ has the best resume amongst all HW's, that too despite having a smaller number of fighters and a shorter career amateur/pro. Additionally, he has been a credit to UK Boxing in general; the sport will always be healthy but I can't remember a time a British fighter sold out stadiums back to back like this ever.

All AJ, Fury and Wilder are flawed; but without a doubt they are the top 3 Heavyweights in the world and their heart is especially criminally under rated. They have reached heights others in the division can only dream off, a lot of it does come down to their fighting spirit. Wilder is not the most technically sound, AJ is one dimensional and Fury is a mad-hatter; their vulnerabilities keep the division exciting though and debate in head-to-head scenarios are generally polarising. In 2019, am sure we will finally crown the undisputed champion. Can't wait for the first chapter in December, Fury / Wilder is the biggest fight of the year in all of combat.

Come on mate admit you’re warming a little to AJ?

 

[shaz619]

Come on mate admit you’re warming a little to AJ?

I respect any man that steps between those ropes and while he is a questionable character there is good to, but at the same time it's not my place to be concerned about any of that remotely because am a Boxing fan so will focus on that, I have bought up those things in the past to call out the hypocrisy of certain fans behaviour towards other fighters. When it comes to his achievements and skill I have always been objective, even towards my own favourites; see this thread, I've never been quick to even jump on GGG's hype train. But I have been warming to what AJ has done for Boxing in the UK over the last couple of years, I will praise and criticise when appropriate; there's no denying that Ricky Hatton, Joe Calzaghe, Amir Khan, David Haye, Carl Frampton and AJ have all been great servants for the sport here, we take a lot for granted until it is gone for good.

 

[Savak]

Am surprised to see Britain being the Mecca of HW boxing and the decline of HW boxing in the US even though the US has a much larger market. I bet if AJ shifts base to the US he can easily make ten times more money than what he is making in the UK.

 

[MenInG]

The World Boxing Super Series hoped to revolutionise boxing. Saudi Arabia wants change of its own. Maybe the two fit like hand in glove after all.

It is not Las Vegas, nor is it New York and Madison Square Garden... it is the desert. It is part of the world that has never seen boxing of this level before.

So just how has George Groves versus Callum Smith, a world-title fight, the final of the World Boxing Super Series and a bout which would fill a UK arena with ease, ended up 4,000 miles away?

Global ambition, the price of oil, a Crown Prince, a country's freshened image and, of course money, were all parts of the puzzle that led to the King Abdullah Sports City Arena in Jeddah.

'This is not about two Brits'
"I don't want to compare us to Muhammad Ali but taking events like the 'Thrilla in Manila' or the 'Rumble in the Jungle' has shown big events can go to new places," says World Boxing Super Series boss Kalle Sauerland.

"We are the first major boxing event to take place in the Middle East region - that's making history."

Sauerland, whose family has a rich history of promoting in Germany, Scandinavia, the US and more, has always maintained the World Boxing Super Series is a global event. Great Britain may be having a boxing boom, and Groves and Smith may hail from Blighty, but so be it.

Fans asked why? This bout, mouthwatering on paper, was chiselled into the fight calendar. Some baulked at the process and cost of visas, others questioned where tickets were being sold, while internet whispers pointed to a hefty fee paid to the Super Series were it to land in Jeddah.

"I saw comments stating 'we had to go there'. That's rubbish," adds Sauerland, who is about to oversee season two of the Super Series.

"It's a site deal. I've done many in boxing before. It's a simple site deal based on us going there. To be honest, financially it would have been better to be in the UK as we'd have had a massive crowd at a football stadium.

"This is not about two Brits, it's about the Champions league of boxing. As everyone knows, Champions League teams travel, no matter where the teams are from."

From oil to major events
Fans wishing to travel to Jeddah needed a visa. To get one, they required an invite from a Saudi resident that would in turn form part of an application to the Saudi Embassy.

One of the 37 agencies who provide visas listed by the Saudi Embassy - Gulf Visa - charged £249 for the service and say the process "can be difficult to understand" on their website.

But it is here, at this potential barrier, that the country's future aspiration becomes clear. This week, the creation of a new visa was announced, one that will be accessible for a huge Formula E event in December and one which will be easier to obtain, aimed at tourists looking to simply attend music, sport or entertainment events in the future.

The move is a small part of Vision 2030, Saudi Arabia's strategy for transitioning away from a largely oil-dependent economy. Oil prices plummeted from more than $140 a barrel in 2009 to just over $25 in 2016. While they have recovered to $80, the swings prompted a rethink of how a prosperous future will be achieved.

The WWE has held a televised stadium show there, Formula E has signed a 10-year race deal in the region and the UFC is expected to one day land in the desert. These large-scale events send a message that Saudi Arabia is open for the biggest events and visitors in tow.

Speaking of large scale, the world's first 1km high building is set to open in Jeddah next year. Bold statements are being sent globally.

"The vision isn't just to hold these events but to make them world-class, to show this country is competing," says Hussam Al Mayman, a reporter, producer and presenter in Jeddah.

"Those in charge do have the mentality and the finances to pull something like that off. It's more an attitude of 'we need this, these wins are crucial' rather than being about financial return.

"It's more about laying the foundations for a solid platform for our future."

'As a country, we were fed up'
In tandem with economic change comes cultural adaptation.

The country which only allowed women to drive in 2018, one where cinemas were banned until this year, where alcohol is outlawed and where gender segregation is in place in some public places, wants to re-invent its conservative image.

Women are still asked to wear an abaya to cover themselves in public but even this law appears to be easing. Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman - who heads up Vision 2030 - said earlier this year that a woman's attire is down to her choice.

Some are taking things into their own hands. Despite exercise in public being largely taboo for women, boxer and kick boxer Halah Alhamrani began offering women-only combat classes in her spare room. She now boasts her own Jeddah studio called Flag Boxing - Fight Like A Girl.

There you will find women, or mums watching their daughters, thumping punch bags in this most conservative of states.

It seems widespread change is afoot. A youthful population - where stats show around 58% are under the age of 30 - are demanding it. The stigma of laws deemed stringent by western protocol may, however, take time to shift.

Zoe Robinson - a 2008 Paralympic Boccia gold medallist - has travelled the world following Smith, his boxing brothers and Manchester fighter Anthony Crolla.

"We put her application in and they said she'd be given a garment to wear on arrival," said Smith's trainer Joe Gallagher. "I know we have to respect the country and culture but it has understandably unnerved her a little, which is a shame."

Al-Mayman added: "Newcomers are embraced. The country has lived in harmony with the expat community for years. So don't believe the hype.

"I don't see any issue at all as long as people are respectful of the culture here. I wouldn't kiss my wife or girlfriend in the street but you can walk around with a female and no-one will really bother you. It's very diverse as there are so many sub-cultures here.

"Certain things were part of an extreme past and that has gone mainly. As a country we were fed up of it."

'Are fans familiar with the contestants? I doubt it'
The message from the fighters on the venue has been humble. Asked by media if they would encourage people to begin boxing at Wednesday's news conference they were unanimous in saying yes.

Both, though, admit they have not paid too much attention on the wider cultural impact of the bout as their focus is so intense on simply winning.

The temperature could be at around 36C when they walk to the ring at what will be around 21:00 BST in the UK, or 23:00 locally, on Friday - though the arena is air-conditioned.

Getting them there has been no easy feat. Gallagher explained every bit of kit had to be documented, energy drinks were initially not allowed to be transported, neither was simple medication such as hydration sachets.

Sauerland expects a healthy number of expats in the Arena, mixed with locals who will almost certainly be witnessing boxing for the first time.

He is the first to state his worldwide promotional work has taught him cultures engage with a fight night differently, from the quiet, studious offer German fans can bring, to the rugged gladiatorial feel brought by Danish crowds.

Al Mayman, who covered the WWE when it sold out a 60,000-seat stadium in Jeddah, added: "There is some interest in boxing here. We all grew up loving the Rocky movies.

"The fight has gathered interest as a boxing event because people are intrigued to have one in Saudi.

"But are fans familiar with the contestants? I doubt it to tell the truth. Most of the attendees will be there because it's a first."

British fight fans may well feel frustrated a bout of such magnitude is not on their doorstep. But when consideration is given to the fact season two of the Super Series visits America twice and Japan in the coming weeks, Sauerland's insistence on his product being of global nature is backed up.

Saudi Arabia, Jeddah and an all-together new audience will benefit. Those watching will be exposed to a new art. For the region and the sport broadly, surely that cannot be a bad thing.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/boxing/45663650

 

[shaz619]

The World Boxing Super Series hoped to revolutionise boxing. Saudi Arabia wants change of its own. Maybe the two fit like hand in glove after all.

It is not Las Vegas, nor is it New York and Madison Square Garden... it is the desert. It is part of the world that has never seen boxing of this level before.

So just how has George Groves versus Callum Smith, a world-title fight, the final of the World Boxing Super Series and a bout which would fill a UK arena with ease, ended up 4,000 miles away?

Global ambition, the price of oil, a Crown Prince, a country's freshened image and, of course money, were all parts of the puzzle that led to the King Abdullah Sports City Arena in Jeddah.

'This is not about two Brits'
"I don't want to compare us to Muhammad Ali but taking events like the 'Thrilla in Manila' or the 'Rumble in the Jungle' has shown big events can go to new places," says World Boxing Super Series boss Kalle Sauerland.

"We are the first major boxing event to take place in the Middle East region - that's making history."

Sauerland, whose family has a rich history of promoting in Germany, Scandinavia, the US and more, has always maintained the World Boxing Super Series is a global event. Great Britain may be having a boxing boom, and Groves and Smith may hail from Blighty, but so be it.

Fans asked why? This bout, mouthwatering on paper, was chiselled into the fight calendar. Some baulked at the process and cost of visas, others questioned where tickets were being sold, while internet whispers pointed to a hefty fee paid to the Super Series were it to land in Jeddah.

"I saw comments stating 'we had to go there'. That's rubbish," adds Sauerland, who is about to oversee season two of the Super Series.

"It's a site deal. I've done many in boxing before. It's a simple site deal based on us going there. To be honest, financially it would have been better to be in the UK as we'd have had a massive crowd at a football stadium.

"This is not about two Brits, it's about the Champions league of boxing. As everyone knows, Champions League teams travel, no matter where the teams are from."

From oil to major events
Fans wishing to travel to Jeddah needed a visa. To get one, they required an invite from a Saudi resident that would in turn form part of an application to the Saudi Embassy.

One of the 37 agencies who provide visas listed by the Saudi Embassy - Gulf Visa - charged £249 for the service and say the process "can be difficult to understand" on their website.

But it is here, at this potential barrier, that the country's future aspiration becomes clear. This week, the creation of a new visa was announced, one that will be accessible for a huge Formula E event in December and one which will be easier to obtain, aimed at tourists looking to simply attend music, sport or entertainment events in the future.

The move is a small part of Vision 2030, Saudi Arabia's strategy for transitioning away from a largely oil-dependent economy. Oil prices plummeted from more than $140 a barrel in 2009 to just over $25 in 2016. While they have recovered to $80, the swings prompted a rethink of how a prosperous future will be achieved.

The WWE has held a televised stadium show there, Formula E has signed a 10-year race deal in the region and the UFC is expected to one day land in the desert. These large-scale events send a message that Saudi Arabia is open for the biggest events and visitors in tow.

Speaking of large scale, the world's first 1km high building is set to open in Jeddah next year. Bold statements are being sent globally.

"The vision isn't just to hold these events but to make them world-class, to show this country is competing," says Hussam Al Mayman, a reporter, producer and presenter in Jeddah.

"Those in charge do have the mentality and the finances to pull something like that off. It's more an attitude of 'we need this, these wins are crucial' rather than being about financial return.

"It's more about laying the foundations for a solid platform for our future."

'As a country, we were fed up'
In tandem with economic change comes cultural adaptation.

The country which only allowed women to drive in 2018, one where cinemas were banned until this year, where alcohol is outlawed and where gender segregation is in place in some public places, wants to re-invent its conservative image.

Women are still asked to wear an abaya to cover themselves in public but even this law appears to be easing. Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman - who heads up Vision 2030 - said earlier this year that a woman's attire is down to her choice.

Some are taking things into their own hands. Despite exercise in public being largely taboo for women, boxer and kick boxer Halah Alhamrani began offering women-only combat classes in her spare room. She now boasts her own Jeddah studio called Flag Boxing - Fight Like A Girl.

There you will find women, or mums watching their daughters, thumping punch bags in this most conservative of states.

It seems widespread change is afoot. A youthful population - where stats show around 58% are under the age of 30 - are demanding it. The stigma of laws deemed stringent by western protocol may, however, take time to shift.

Zoe Robinson - a 2008 Paralympic Boccia gold medallist - has travelled the world following Smith, his boxing brothers and Manchester fighter Anthony Crolla.

"We put her application in and they said she'd be given a garment to wear on arrival," said Smith's trainer Joe Gallagher. "I know we have to respect the country and culture but it has understandably unnerved her a little, which is a shame."

Al-Mayman added: "Newcomers are embraced. The country has lived in harmony with the expat community for years. So don't believe the hype.

"I don't see any issue at all as long as people are respectful of the culture here. I wouldn't kiss my wife or girlfriend in the street but you can walk around with a female and no-one will really bother you. It's very diverse as there are so many sub-cultures here.

"Certain things were part of an extreme past and that has gone mainly. As a country we were fed up of it."

'Are fans familiar with the contestants? I doubt it'
The message from the fighters on the venue has been humble. Asked by media if they would encourage people to begin boxing at Wednesday's news conference they were unanimous in saying yes.

Both, though, admit they have not paid too much attention on the wider cultural impact of the bout as their focus is so intense on simply winning.

The temperature could be at around 36C when they walk to the ring at what will be around 21:00 BST in the UK, or 23:00 locally, on Friday - though the arena is air-conditioned.

Getting them there has been no easy feat. Gallagher explained every bit of kit had to be documented, energy drinks were initially not allowed to be transported, neither was simple medication such as hydration sachets.

Sauerland expects a healthy number of expats in the Arena, mixed with locals who will almost certainly be witnessing boxing for the first time.

He is the first to state his worldwide promotional work has taught him cultures engage with a fight night differently, from the quiet, studious offer German fans can bring, to the rugged gladiatorial feel brought by Danish crowds.

Al Mayman, who covered the WWE when it sold out a 60,000-seat stadium in Jeddah, added: "There is some interest in boxing here. We all grew up loving the Rocky movies.

"The fight has gathered interest as a boxing event because people are intrigued to have one in Saudi.

"But are fans familiar with the contestants? I doubt it to tell the truth. Most of the attendees will be there because it's a first."

British fight fans may well feel frustrated a bout of such magnitude is not on their doorstep. But when consideration is given to the fact season two of the Super Series visits America twice and Japan in the coming weeks, Sauerland's insistence on his product being of global nature is backed up.

Saudi Arabia, Jeddah and an all-together new audience will benefit. Those watching will be exposed to a new art. For the region and the sport broadly, surely that cannot be a bad thing.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/boxing/45663650

There's a new initiative in Saudi to bring such events over to help improve the country's image, a WWE event was held their recently as well and another is due this year. What I found surprising was how the people over there were so in touch with all the characters and product, perhaps they will surprise me in the same way when it comes to the sport of Boxing. Maybe this will pave the way for big events in places like Dubai, but it all comes down to money and Saudi have that in abundance to make such events possible.

 

[shaz619]

Am surprised to see Britain being the Mecca of HW boxing and the decline of HW boxing in the US even though the US has a much larger market. I bet if AJ shifts base to the US he can easily make ten times more money than what he is making in the UK.

Am not sure because if he could make that much money right now over there he'd be boxing in the US, that's not to say that he can't get a fat check over there but needs to build his profile gradually and there are plans for him to box globally. From the Wladmir fight and beyond he has fought in stadiums and PPV buy rates must average close to a million, it's all just unprecedented.

The UK has always been an amazing place for Boxing but it's true the US had led the way in the past, a big reason for the decline in US are the ridiculous PPV price tags and Floyd Mayweather; he put such a huge emphasis on being unbeaten that fighters are afraid to take more risks, when the best face each other we tend to get exciting fights but now that throw back era in America where everyone cared for legacy they think more about their financial value which ought to take a big hit if they lose, back then it didn't matter as much. But more companies have embraced a Netflix like service and costs are a lot more reasonable so the future does look more promising on that front, but it's interesting you bring this up because HBO drop Boxing after nearly half a century in the sport today! they gave us so many beautiful memories, end of an era.

 

[shaz619]

Junior turned the tables there on Kugan watch the video towards the end @<a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/member.php?u=43583" target="_blank">KingKhanWC</a> @<a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/member.php?u=16" target="_blank">Amjid Javed</a> , Kugan had a Jubbah on lol Chris wanted to pay tribute to the historic event by having green shorts with the Shahada but when he was made aware that it would be disrespectful he improvised with the design and the locals loved it. It was an under-card bout but he was very proud to be on the card of a debut Boxing event for the first time in the ME, which is why he was even more shocked by the Irish man quitting due to an 'injured' shoulder, it was so injured that he was happy to have a bare knuckle fight after Chris had a few words with him about his self retirement in the corner.

I was really trying to see who was working Chris's corner ? we all want that big mong of a father to not be involved in any of his affairs and to be fair if he was around we all would know lol so it's pleasing to see senior was no where to be found. I've read rumours that Chris has been working with Floyd Sr in the US, Sr may not have a lot left in the tank as far as training is concerned but if he can teach Chris a little about defence and a Jab it would have done him the world of good. In this fight he was trying to use his Jab a lot more and be evasive which is good news, Chris has the heart of a lion, very good power and some raw talent but he's not going anywhere if he does not throw his punches in straight lines, but there were many positives to take away from this fight even if it was so short, hopefully moving forward he works harder on setting up those power punches instead of going all out. If he has quietly got rid of his dad even better when it comes to his career prospects which would have drastically improved!

Not sure if you guys checked the final out but it was terrific, it was a close fight until the stoppage but it was Liam who was landing the more damaging blows until the finish. What was the stand out feature of his performance was how he was able to utilise his height and reach advantage, the command over range and distance was excellent, Groves is a terrific counter puncher but wasn't able to land anything clean and that in the end was his downfall, maybe if he had used his feet a bit more it could have helped him but there's a fair amount of mileage on those legs. Full credit to Callum Smith regardless, he was so disciplined and focused, a man his size is rarely so good on the inside as well but his strength is definetly using his physical attributes, never saw him over comit even once, hands were nice and tight throughout the fight and he picked Groves off so well without outside the pocket. Great tournament once again.

Groves ruled out retirement, Callum could be fighting in America next for a unification bout and Chris is rumoured to be facing Degale in December.

Ali's daughter on the left there handing the inaugural Muhammad Ali Super Middleweight Trophy to Callum who is now just the third fighter after Ward and Calzaghe to win the Ring Magazine title in this division, fantastic achievement.

 

[shaz619]

Junior turned the tables there on Kugan watch the video towards the end @<a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/member.php?u=43583" target="_blank">KingKhanWC</a> @<a href="http://www.pakpassion.net/ppforum/member.php?u=16" target="_blank">Amjid Javed</a> , Kugan had a Jubbah on lol Chris wanted to pay tribute to the historic event by having green shorts with the Shahada but when he was made aware that it would be disrespectful he improvised with the design and the locals loved it. It was an under-card bout but he was very proud to be on the card of a debut Boxing event for the first time in the ME, which is why he was even more shocked by the Irish man quitting due to an 'injured' shoulder, it was so injured that he was happy to have a bare knuckle fight after Chris had a few words with him about his self retirement in the corner.

I was really trying to see who was working Chris's corner ? we all want that big mong of a father to not be involved in any of his affairs and to be fair if he was around we all would know lol so it's pleasing to see senior was no where to be found. I've read rumours that Chris has been working with Floyd Sr in the US, Sr may not have a lot left in the tank as far as training is concerned but if he can teach Chris a little about defence and a Jab it would have done him the world of good. In this fight he was trying to use his Jab a lot more and be evasive which is good news, Chris has the heart of a lion, very good power and some raw talent but he's not going anywhere if he does not throw his punches in straight lines, but there were many positives to take away from this fight even if it was so short, hopefully moving forward he works harder on setting up those power punches instead of going all out. If he has quietly got rid of his dad even better when it comes to his career prospects which would have drastically improved!

Not sure if you guys checked the final out but it was terrific, it was a close fight until the stoppage but it was Liam who was landing the more damaging blows until the finish. What was the stand out feature of his performance was how he was able to utilise his height and reach advantage, the command over range and distance was excellent, Groves is a terrific counter puncher but wasn't able to land anything clean and that in the end was his downfall, maybe if he had used his feet a bit more it could have helped him but there's a fair amount of mileage on those legs. Full credit to Callum Smith regardless, he was so disciplined and focused, a man his size is rarely so good on the inside as well but his strength is definetly using his physical attributes, never saw him over comit even once, hands were nice and tight throughout the fight and he picked Groves off so well without outside the pocket. Great tournament once again.

Groves ruled out retirement, Callum could be fighting in America next for a unification bout and Chris is rumoured to be facing Degale in December.

Ali's daughter on the left there handing the inaugural Muhammad Ali Super Middleweight Trophy to Callum who is now just the third fighter after Ward and Calzaghe to win the Ring Magazine title in this division, fantastic achievement.

Callum* Bloody Smith dynasty

 

[barah_admi]

Groves quit on all fours, shaking his head. Sad end to a career that could have been so much more.

 

[shaz619]

Groves quit on all fours, shaking his head. Sad end to a career that could have been so much more.

At first I thought he went down to the head shots as well but if you watch the replay it was the body shot that sucked the wind out of him and forced him to shake his head, those liver shots will take down the toughest of men; Loma finished Linares in a similar fashion this year. Groves hasn't retired yet and overall he had a decent career, he was at his best under Adam Booth though, over the years his foot speed has declined and while he is still great a little more flat footed, Groves was a lot harder to beat when he used lateral movement a lot more frequently.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Groves has took so much punishment over his career he should think of retiring now. He's a tough tough bloke who will not back down but maybe over the hill now. Well done to Smith, that was a sweet left hook and he finished off Groves very well not getting too excited.

Eubank Jnr looking decent too but I have no idea what was going on in the fight towards the end. lol. Nice shorts and nice outfit by Kugan too. When I was in Saudi I was told not to wear the headband with the scarf as it's only Sheikhs who should wear them. Wonder if he was stopped for a photo?

 

[barah_admi]

Opinions on Wilder v Fury?

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">&#55357;&#56882; THAT ESCALATED QUICKLY &#55357;&#56882;<a href="https://twitter.com/Tyson_Fury?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Tyson_Fury</a> wants to feel <a href="https://twitter.com/BronzeBomber?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@BronzeBomber</a>'s power, is shoved and the bouncers have to step in between them.<br><br> Contains strong language<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WilderFury?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WilderFury</a> <a href="https://t.co/vES4CkXK5o">pic.twitter.com/vES4CkXK5o</a></p>— BT Sport Boxing (@BTSportBoxing) <a href="https://twitter.com/BTSportBoxing/status/1046725975654969345?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 1, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[shaz619]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">�� THAT ESCALATED QUICKLY ��<a href="https://twitter.com/Tyson_Fury?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Tyson_Fury</a> wants to feel <a href="https://twitter.com/BronzeBomber?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@BronzeBomber</a>'s power, is shoved and the bouncers have to step in between them.<br><br> Contains strong language<a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/WilderFury?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#WilderFury</a> <a href="https://t.co/vES4CkXK5o">pic.twitter.com/vES4CkXK5o</a></p>— BT Sport Boxing (@BTSportBoxing) <a href="https://twitter.com/BTSportBoxing/status/1046725975654969345?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 1, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Biggest fight of the year, wish I could be there

 

[shaz619]

Opinions on Wilder v Fury?

It's a personified Heavyweight Super Fight, Tyson has been out a long time but he is still a threat for Wilder. I've been waiting for this years! if it wasn't announced so abruptly maybe I would be in Vegas to!

 

[KingKhanWC]

Opinions on Wilder v Fury?

The biggest fights are often when two undefeated champions meet esp in the heavyweight division. Here you have two fighters who are both very hungry even after so many fights. In terms of boxing skills Fury is superiour but Wilder has a very powerful right hand and with both being huge men, a knockout is very much on the cards.

Wilder is clear favourite for me, he's been active and is in very good shape. Fury has worked hard to get to fitness but imo still has some ring rust to get rid of. I think this fight maybe two fights too early for him but never rule him out because Fury has ring intelligence, he can box and move very well. But his biggest asset is his heart and determination, the man will never be scared or give him even if he is hurt.

I would have to go with a Wilder stoppage but not early on, after round 6.

 

[shaz619]

The biggest fights are often when two undefeated champions meet esp in the heavyweight division. Here you have two fighters who are both very hungry even after so many fights. In terms of boxing skills Fury is superiour but Wilder has a very powerful right hand and with both being huge men, a knockout is very much on the cards.

Wilder is clear favourite for me, he's been active and is in very good shape. Fury has worked hard to get to fitness but imo still has some ring rust to get rid of. I think this fight maybe two fights too early for him but never rule him out because Fury has ring intelligence, he can box and move very well. But his biggest asset is his heart and determination, the man will never be scared or give him even if he is hurt.

I would have to go with a Wilder stoppage but not early on, after round 6.

Fans in saudi arabia were heckling Eddie Hearn and chanting Tyson Fury's name was surprised lmao

Wilder is defo the favourite and when this was first rumoured I was the first to say no chance! but I've had a think about it and man, there's only one Tyson Fury lol he's touched in the mind and will put his life on the line when he enters those ropes, it truly will be dog eat dog; both men are ruthless. Tyson is a technician but never be in doubt when it comes to his killer instinct. These Gypsies can fight and do anything necessary to win. Am going with a Tyson Fury win, if he does get caught I believe he will weather the storm but even at this stage feel as if his movement and ring generalship will be too much for Wilder to consistently land clean blows and it wouldn't shock me if Tyson just put it on him in a surprise turn of events and fought off his front foot!