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Can Alastair Cook break Sachin Tendulkar's record for most Test runs?

TalentSpotterPk said:
Anybody ?
What are Younis Khan's stats at number 3 in test cricket from 2000 to 2010 ?
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Average of 51, with 13 centuries in 49 matches. Played matches in South Africa, Australia and England in that position.
 
Cook is just 300 runs behind Tendulkar after 120 tests (including current one).
 
Pretty much guaranteed the record if he plays for the next 7 years.

If I'm repeating what I said previously then apologies, but it just reaffirms my past opinion.
 
He will be turning 31 in a couple of months, he will have to score 1000 runs a year till he is 38 to beat the little man. Not impossible, but very very hard.

I have tremendous respect for the bloke though, has made a good comeback after a couple of bad years. His next series in SA this December will be a huge test for him.
 
Bilal7 said:
Lol, the desperation to not sound like a hypocrite is strong in this thread. :))
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I am afraid the desperation is on your part here. You have been trying to prove that Younis is an ATG contender even though he doesn't have much of a case.
Cook has never dominated pace-bowling or spin-bowling, unlike a Younis Khan who regularly owns spinners that are well-respected in their home countries. Yes, he has a tougher job since he opens the batting and credit where it's due, he's great at his job and is the best opener of this generation. That does not make him a better batsman than Younis Khan, who by the way, has batted at #3 for a period of time to great effect.
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Again, watch the Australian and Indian series. Cook was utterly dominant against pace in Australia and spin in India; dominance doesn't necessarily mean high strike rate, but batting with authority and having the upper-hand. Younis is dominant against spin even when he is not scoring runs against them, but he is all over the place against pace bowling.

You are confusing high strike rate with dominance; if strike is the criteria than Afridi is arguably the most dominant player, but that couldn't be further from the truth because he has never been in command of the bowling.
Another ridiculous criteria is being introduced by separating middle-order and opening batsmen. The divide has generally been between the top order, which includes the #3 batsmen and the middle-order. Going by this, Cook is at best, the third-best top-order batsman of his era, behind Amla and Sangakarra. The divide between those two and Cook is substantial to boot.
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It is important to distinguish between openers and middle-order batsmen; opening in Test cricket remains the toughest job for a batsman in this game, and openers deserve extra credit for this. However ultimately, you cannot compare apples with oranges and openers and middle-order batsmen need to be rated separately. Cook is head and shoulders above every opener of his generation; no one is even close, that alone is good enough for him to be considered among the best batsmen of his generation, and that is my criticism - openers very often slip under the radar.
This however, is rarely considered when the majority of the cricket world rates players. Matthew Hayden was probably the best opener of his time but who would rate him ahead of any one of Ponting, Lara or Sachin as a test batsman? Hafeez has arguably, been Pakistan's best opener in the last five or six years, yet who would rate him ahead of Asad or Azhar as a test batsman?
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Hayden isn't even close to being the best opener of his generation; Smith was, and he's an all-time great.

Hayden was thunderous but he had an obvious weakness - he was not adept at playing the moving ball, and thus failed in England, South Africa and New Zealand.
I do think that Cook will end up as an ATG, since I'm not a hypocrite, nor a hipster and won't change the goal-posts depending on the player I've assessing. Younis Khan is a better batsman though and is a surefire ATG.
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What hypocrisy? What goalposts? For me, the most significant criteria of ATG status is comparison with your peers - that is why Bradman is the best ever batsman; Marshall is the best ever bowler; Sobers/Imran are the best all-rounders of all time; Gilchrist is the best wicket-keeper batsman ever; Viv Richards is the greatest ODI batsman of all time. Unfortunately, Younis does not fit this criteria.

In your world, he might be a surefire ATG but as things stand, he is nothing more than a Pakistan great; his ultimate legacy is of a middle-order batsman who wasn't even in the top three of his generation, an era that is regarded as comparatively easier for batting compared to previous ones; had he proved himself to be better than Sangakkara, Amla and de Villiers, he would have been an ATG; as things stand, he is not.

If he scores big and helps Pakistan win matches in Australia and England next year, he will be considered as an ATG.

Only 3/30 hundreds have come in England, South Africa (that too on a dry wicket; failed on traditional SA wickets) and New Zealand. His average in Australia looks pretty but he is yet to score a hundred there. Of course, it can change if he scores big next year.

Cook has the most hundreds by an overseas batsmen in the subcontinent and has dominated Australia and India away from home, helping England to historic series wins. Winning the Ashes in Australia and winning in India is the pinnacle for English cricket, and he has played starring roles in both. In addition, he has performed everywhere and has hundreds in all countries. He has played just two Tests against minnows only.

Cook's standing in English cricket today is the same as Younis' in Pakistan cricket; one of the best the country has produced, but unlike Younis, he is entering the prime years of his career and has another 5-6 years left in the tank, which is why he is well on his way to becoming an all-time great, and he is much better placed for that accolade than Younis.

Younis' legacy is that of a middle-order batsman who wasn't good enough to be in the top three of his generation; Cook's legacy is of an opener who was head and shoulders above every opener of his generation. That says everything that needs to be said.
 
Injuries start creeping in once you're 34-35, especially with Cook's workload.

Its gonna be a long and hard battle
 
Bilal7 said:
Did Ponting also hide down at #4 towards the end of his career? Was Sachin playing hide and seek his entire career? It is easier to bat at #4 and #5 as far as facing the pacers is concerned but unless the batsman in question hasn't shown the ability to play the new-ball well, it is silly to say that they were hiding there. Younis averages 50+ at #3 so he was certainly not hiding.

With regards to playing spin and reverse-swing, #4 and #5 are the harder positions to bat at than the top-order.
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Ponting batted at #4 at the end of his career when he was well past his best, so I am not sure where you are going with this.

Younis started to bat at that position in his peak. There was no justification of throwing a rookie Azhar into the deep end, he should have batted in between Younis and Misbah.

However, Younis has lived up the precedence set by Inzamam and MoYo, i.e. reluctance to bat at 3.

Yes Tendulkar did not have the guts to bat at #3 in Tests and it counts against him; it is one of the few reasons why he is not the best Test batsman ever in spite of holding the most records.

Dravid shielded him from the new ball and that's why he is the unsung hero of Indian cricket; he is overrated by Pakistanis who are bitter towards Tendulkar's greatness and underrated by Sachinistas, who refuse to accept that he played a pivotal role in Tendulkar's success.

Batting at #4 and #5 are the easiest positions to bat for a Test batsman, especially an Asian one; most of them are adept at playing spin, but they struggle against the new ball. At these positions, you are protected from the new ball and you are also well settled at the crease when the second new ball arrives, barring exceptions of course.

At 3, you are more exposed to the new ball and at 6, you are more exposed to the second new ball.
 
Most English good players of recent past with or without injuries have retired between 32 to 34 age . Barring Kevin who we don't know would have played till what age. This list included Collingwood aswell who was a natural athlete and was averaging 40 after 68 tests and had two bad series was dropped and retired.

Whereas if you see cook he already has played 113 test matches which are alot by England's standard (can't be compared with Australian Indian or south African standards)

I don't see him playing test cricket for more than at maximum 4 years , whereas probably even if he plays 5 more years from now on whose probability is 0.01 % than too he won't break Tendulkar's career.

Had AB been a Pakistani he would have played till age of 40,41 and would have broken Tendulkar's record but he won't play till that age being south African so he won't break that record.

Sangakara could have given it a shot and could have passed Sachin in 2,3 years but he retired . I think he just got tired of international cricket and preferred leaving the game at peak unlike kallis, pointing, Clarke, mahela etc
 
Mamoon said:
Ponting batted at #4 at the end of his career when he was well past his best, so I am not sure where you are going with this.

Younis started to bat at that position in his peak. There was no justification of throwing a rookie Azhar into the deep end, he should have batted in between Younis and Misbah.

However, Younis has lived up the precedence set by Inzamam and MoYo, i.e. reluctance to bat at 3.
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From 2004 to 2010 Younis khan played test cricket 6 years out of 7 years in total. In those 6 years Younis batted at number 3 position and he averaged 58.5 with the bat in those 6 years of cricket.

When you refer to Younis khan the test batsman you refer to his peak years from 2010 to 2015 in UAE and with him hiding from the new ball and Azhar helping him by batting at number 3 position. But you forget thay Younis also had another peak of 6 years on the trot while averaging 58.5 in those 5 years and while batting at number 3 position with both inzimam and you suffer coming after him.

Fine Younis never had a peak year like you sun's world record year of 1600 plus runs neither he has the charisma style and poise of yousufs batting nor the lazy elegance timings and brutal power of inzimam but you have to count these things

A . Peak years of 11 years unlike yousuf and inzimam with averaging 60 in those 11 years and never averaging below 50

B . Has batted at number 3 position more than inzimam , yousuf and miandad.

C. When he came at number 3 there was no shoals Mohammad or saeed Anwar, Amir sohail batting above him as opener to see off new ball and mostly he had to bat against the new ball with salmans , toufeeqs , farhats , yasirs, butts, hafeezs falling cheaply more often than not.

D. In test cricket the most pressure games have been against India especially crowd pressure. I agree Indian bowlers area great but home or away Younis's record against India has been better than inzimam and yousuf. He was a nightmare for India in tests the way sangakara was nightmare for us in tests.

E. Ponting was a class player better than younis. But don't forget that he had openers like slater mark waugh harden and langer so he has no comparison with younis batting at number 3 for Pakistan. If Ponting got exposed to new ball 30 percent of the times while batting at 3 , Younis got exposed to new ball 8t percent of times batting at number 3.

F. When younis khan was dropped from Pakistan's test team by ijaz Butt when they had differences Younis had averaged 53 last year and 57 in last 4 years in test cricket so if he misses out on 10,000 test runs than it will be due to that 1 year of missing test cricket and losing opportunity to score 900 to 1000 runs that year.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
From 2004 to 2010 Younis khan played test cricket 6 years out of 7 years in total. In those 6 years Younis batted at number 3 position and he averaged 58.5 with the bat in those 6 years of cricket.

When you refer to Younis khan the test batsman you refer to his peak years from 2010 to 2015 in UAE and with him hiding from the new ball and Azhar helping him by batting at number 3 position. But you forget thay Younis also had another peak of 6 years on the trot while averaging 58.5 in those 5 years and while batting at number 3 position with both inzimam and you suffer coming after him.

Fine Younis never had a peak year like you sun's world record year of 1600 plus runs neither he has the charisma style and poise of yousufs batting nor the lazy elegance timings and brutal power of inzimam but you have to count these things

A . Peak years of 11 years unlike yousuf and inzimam with averaging 60 in those 11 years and never averaging below 50

B . Has batted at number 3 position more than inzimam , yousuf and miandad.

C. When he came at number 3 there was no shoals Mohammad or saeed Anwar, Amir sohail batting above him as opener to see off new ball and mostly he had to bat against the new ball with salmans , toufeeqs , farhats , yasirs, butts, hafeezs falling cheaply more often than not.

D. In test cricket the most pressure games have been against India especially crowd pressure. I agree Indian bowlers area great but home or away Younis's record against India has been better than inzimam and yousuf. He was a nightmare for India in tests the way sangakara was nightmare for us in tests.

E. Ponting was a class player better than younis. But don't forget that he had openers like slater mark waugh harden and langer so he has no comparison with younis batting at number 3 for Pakistan. If Ponting got exposed to new ball 30 percent of the times while batting at 3 , Younis got exposed to new ball 8t percent of times batting at number 3.

F. When younis khan was dropped from Pakistan's test team by ijaz Butt when they had differences Younis had averaged 53 last year and 57 in last 4 years in test cricket so if he misses out on 10,000 test runs than it will be due to that 1 year of missing test cricket and losing opportunity to score 900 to 1000 runs that year.
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Correction in last point.

He did play two tests in the year he had issues with ijaz Butt and averaged 60 in those two tests not 53 and in previous 4 years he did not average 57 in fact he averaged 60.
 
Mamoon said:
Ponting batted at #4 at the end of his career when he was well past his best, so I am not sure where you are going with this.

Younis started to bat at that position in his peak. There was no justification of throwing a rookie Azhar into the deep end, he should have batted in between Younis and Misbah.

However, Younis has lived up the precedence set by Inzamam and MoYo, i.e. reluctance to bat at 3.

Yes Tendulkar did not have the guts to bat at #3 in Tests and it counts against him; it is one of the few reasons why he is not the best Test batsman ever in spite of holding the most records.

Dravid shielded him from the new ball and that's why he is the unsung hero of Indian cricket; he is overrated by Pakistanis who are bitter towards Tendulkar's greatness and underrated by Sachinistas, who refuse to accept that he played a pivotal role in Tendulkar's success.

Batting at #4 and #5 are the easiest positions to bat for a Test batsman, especially an Asian one; most of them are adept at playing spin, but they struggle against the new ball. At these positions, you are protected from the new ball and you are also well settled at the crease when the second new ball arrives, barring exceptions of course.

At 3, you are more exposed to the new ball and at 6, you are more exposed to the second new ball.
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Mamoon ji....there are so many things to criticise Sachin about. But barring the odd exceptions, he was never asked to bat at No 3 at all.

Unlike Ponting, Sanga, Dravid...No 4 was his spot all along.

After Dravid retired, Pujara came to that slot.

You are right about Sachinistas under-rating Dravid.

There is also a rabid gang (maybe not as big online but still exist) called Dravidistas. Man, you should look at them go at Sachin.

Very very vicious. :))

Humans aren't different no matter what the situation. Any community will find a sub group and fight.
 
TalentSpotterPk said:
From 2004 to 2010 Younis khan played test cricket 6 years out of 7 years in total. In those 6 years Younis batted at number 3 position and he averaged 58.5 with the bat in those 6 years of cricket.

When you refer to Younis khan the test batsman you refer to his peak years from 2010 to 2015 in UAE and with him hiding from the new ball and Azhar helping him by batting at number 3 position. But you forget thay Younis also had another peak of 6 years on the trot while averaging 58.5 in those 5 years and while batting at number 3 position with both inzimam and you suffer coming after him.

Fine Younis never had a peak year like you sun's world record year of 1600 plus runs neither he has the charisma style and poise of yousufs batting nor the lazy elegance timings and brutal power of inzimam but you have to count these things

A . Peak years of 11 years unlike yousuf and inzimam with averaging 60 in those 11 years and never averaging below 50

B . Has batted at number 3 position more than inzimam , yousuf and miandad.

C. When he came at number 3 there was no shoals Mohammad or saeed Anwar, Amir sohail batting above him as opener to see off new ball and mostly he had to bat against the new ball with salmans , toufeeqs , farhats , yasirs, butts, hafeezs falling cheaply more often than not.

D. In test cricket the most pressure games have been against India especially crowd pressure. I agree Indian bowlers area great but home or away Younis's record against India has been better than inzimam and yousuf. He was a nightmare for India in tests the way sangakara was nightmare for us in tests.

E. Ponting was a class player better than younis. But don't forget that he had openers like slater mark waugh harden and langer so he has no comparison with younis batting at number 3 for Pakistan. If Ponting got exposed to new ball 30 percent of the times while batting at 3 , Younis got exposed to new ball 8t percent of times batting at number 3.

F. When younis khan was dropped from Pakistan's test team by ijaz Butt when they had differences Younis had averaged 53 last year and 57 in last 4 years in test cricket so if he misses out on 10,000 test runs than it will be due to that 1 year of missing test cricket and losing opportunity to score 900 to 1000 runs that year.
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Firstly, Ponting has had better openers but he was at a different level to compared to Younis when it comes to playing pace.

I am aware of Younis' peak in 2006, but he has not stood out at any point over his peers and at times he has also struggled to rise over batsmen in his own team. For example, in 2006 he was overshadowed by MoYo and for much of that period, he was overshadowed by Inzamam as well.

He did well in England in 2006 but MoYo was amazing; he did well in Australia but in the same innings that he scored 87 odd, MoYo scored that brilliant hundred.

He scored a triple hundred in 2009 but Kamran ended that year as our leading run scorer in all formats.

He only came to the fore as our leading batsman when Inzamam and MoYo retired, and he stood out against a decent batsman like Misbah and two rookies like Azhar and Shafiq.

Another point to consider is that MoYo outperformed him when both played together in the same team; there is no better comparison than that.

For these reasons, I do not agree that Younis is ATG material; you cannot be an ATG when you have never been the best in the world at any point and have been overshadowed by two other great batsmen as well while playing alongside them.

Of course all of that can change if he produces special performances in Australia and England next year.
 
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[MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION]

Just so that we are clear, the discussion is not about whether Younis is a top class Test batsman or not. Of that, there is no doubt.

I am simply reflecting on why he does not have a case to be considered an all-time great and I'll restate my points:

At no point in his career has he been the best Test batsman in the world. From his team, he was overshadowed by Inzamam and MoYo early in his career, and in other teams, we had Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Kallis and Dravid.

After their retirement, he was overshadowed by Sangakkara and in the last few years, Amla and de Villiers.

Michael Clarke had a brief little peak as well in 2012-2013 when he stood tall among others.

Keeping this in mind, there is no case of him being an ATG. Essentially, he's in the same category as Mahela, albeit perhaps a touch better.
 
Cook won't reach it and Pakistan fans should stop dreaming about the possibility because English fans or Cook himself sure as hell do not care.

But I think Cook is criminally underrated.

He plays as an opener and you just cannot statistically compare a middle order batsman (esp #4 and #5) to than opener because it is definitely much tougher.

Secondly Cook plays about 50% of his Test matches in England which many players over the course of Test history have found to be tough. Yes it is his home conditions and he has great familiarity to it but no matter how well you know the conditions it cannot be comparable to playing your home tests on some Indian pattas or dust bowls which don't throw demons. In England weather and pitch both combine to make batting hell some seasons. Secondly Cook plays a huge chunk (prolly 30-50%) of his away test matches in a given period in Australia which is the toughest tour.

So average wise it is just not an intelligent comparison and Sachin will always have a higher per innings stat.
 
Mamoon said:
[MENTION=138980]TalentSpotterPk[/MENTION]

Just so that we are clear, the discussion is not about whether Younis is a top class Test batsman or not. Of that, there is no doubt.

I am simply reflecting on why he does not have a case to be considered an all-time great and I'll restate my points:

At no point in his career has he been the best Test batsman in the world. From his team, he was overshadowed by Inzamam and MoYo early in his career, and in other teams, we had Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Kallis and Dravid.

After their retirement, he was overshadowed by Sangakkara and in the last few years, Amla and de Villiers.

Michael Clarke had a brief little peak as well in 2012-2013 when he stood tall among others.

Keeping this in mind, there is no case of him being an ATG. Essentially, he's in the same category as Mahela, albeit perhaps a touch better.
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Imo if he has a 2006 like tour of England in terms of runs this summer then he has a claim for this time period.
 
No Test opener in the last 10 years has exhibited the same level of discipline and concentration levels that Cook has, and that is why he is miles above his peers.

There are two ways to judge a player: statistics and observations; he stands tall on both fronts. His statistics are ridiculous; and you can also easily observe why he is the best opener of his generation.

Of course he has his weaknesses, such as inability to perform against McGrath and Warne, but we have to consider that he played them in 2007, only a year after his debut.

There is no credible way you can disprove that Cook is not on his way to ATG status.
 
Slog said:
Imo if he has a 2006 like tour of England in terms of runs this summer then he has a claim for this time period.
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Yes, if he can score runs in England and Australia next summer, he will end up in the same category as Sangakkara/Dravid/Kallis.
 
He will break all of SRT's records.

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It's possible if he plays about 70 Tests from here. He'll need more innings than a #4 bat since he's an opener. He's not going to average like 55.
 
Cook will fizz out in few years... he doesn't have the determination or love for the game... which tendulkar had... I had hopes with 3 years back but then he hit a rough patch in form so now it's IMPOSSIBLE. I REPEAT IMPOSSIBLE
 
todfod 11 said:
Definitely you haven't seen the best years tendu
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Cook is I think unfortunate that he was born in England, one of the most difficult place for batting second being an Englishman he has to play the Ashes every year against most tough opposition since last 20 years. If sachin has had to play his most part of career on English wickets & against Australian attack on England & Australia wickets what will be his record.
 
Cook dropped again by Sarfaraz Ahmed.

It seems like Pak players, like Pak fans would love to see Cook break the record :sachin

Insha-allah he will get there.
 
I had this thought in my mind 3-4 years ago when he was around 7000 runs and then he slowed down and I gave up with that hope but now after seeing his current dedication It looks quite possible unless he doesn't mess up himself.


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Statistically people do realize the amount he needs in the given amount of time with the given constraint of average age of retirement for an English player?
 
Alaistair Cook is a good, very good opener. For opener having played mostly after 2000 I rate him 3rd equal.

1 and 2 are without a doubt Hayden and Smith (in witch ever order you want).

3 and 4 are Cook and Sehwag. Completely different, hard to compare. You had prefer Cook in tough situations and Sehwag to win you matches you tought you couldn't win.
 
JaDed said:
Statistically people do realize the amount he needs in the given amount of time with the given constraint of average age of retirement for an English player?
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Don't take average age as a criteria. Stewart and Gooch both retired in their 40s. England don't have a back up opener anyways so I don't think he'll be retiring any time soon
 
junaid.ahmed said:
Cook is I think unfortunate that he was born in England, one of the most difficult place for batting second being an Englishman he has to play the Ashes every year against most tough opposition since last 20 years. If sachin has had to play his most part of career on English wickets & against Australian attack on England & Australia wickets what will be his record.
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Sachin has played more matches against a better Australian team in Australia (and has a better record) than Cook.
 
junaid.ahmed said:
He has good number of runs against second class Austraian attack.
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Mobashir said:
Most of the big runs are agaisnt second class attacks and on roads.
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Its true Tendulkar has scored tons against second class bowlers like McGrath, Warne, McDermott, Huges, Gillespie, Lee on placid tracks like Perth, Melbourne, Sydney, Adelaide. Even won a man-of the series in the only series against the worst Aus team of all time in Aus 1999 lol

Compare that to Cook taking on legends like Babar, Rahat Ali, Imran Khan on a belter of a UAE surface.
Cook is anyday better than that midget. Shall surpass him soon Insha-allah.
 
So McGrath, Warne, McDermott, McGill, Gillespie etc are a second class attack and Siddle, Lyon, Hazlewood, Starc etc are a first class bowling attack?

Also I thought the Australian tracks nowadays are very flat as well (they certainly were according to most people here after Kohli's 4 hundreds).
 
Mamoon said:
I am afraid the desperation is on your part here. You have been trying to prove that Younis is an ATG contender even though he doesn't have much of a case.


Again, watch the Australian and Indian series. Cook was utterly dominant against pace in Australia and spin in India; dominance doesn't necessarily mean high strike rate, but batting with authority and having the upper-hand. Younis is dominant against spin even when he is not scoring runs against them, but he is all over the place against pace bowling.

You are confusing high strike rate with dominance; if strike is the criteria than Afridi is arguably the most dominant player, but that couldn't be further from the truth because he has never been in command of the bowling.


It is important to distinguish between openers and middle-order batsmen; opening in Test cricket remains the toughest job for a batsman in this game, and openers deserve extra credit for this. However ultimately, you cannot compare apples with oranges and openers and middle-order batsmen need to be rated separately. Cook is head and shoulders above every opener of his generation; no one is even close, that alone is good enough for him to be considered among the best batsmen of his generation, and that is my criticism - openers very often slip under the radar.
Hayden isn't even close to being the best opener of his generation; Smith was, and he's an all-time great.

Hayden was thunderous but he had an obvious weakness - he was not adept at playing the moving ball, and thus failed in England, South Africa and New Zealand.


What hypocrisy? What goalposts? For me, the most significant criteria of ATG status is comparison with your peers - that is why Bradman is the best ever batsman; Marshall is the best ever bowler; Sobers/Imran are the best all-rounders of all time; Gilchrist is the best wicket-keeper batsman ever; Viv Richards is the greatest ODI batsman of all time. Unfortunately, Younis does not fit this criteria.

In your world, he might be a surefire ATG but as things stand, he is nothing more than a Pakistan great; his ultimate legacy is of a middle-order batsman who wasn't even in the top three of his generation, an era that is regarded as comparatively easier for batting compared to previous ones; had he proved himself to be better than Sangakkara, Amla and de Villiers, he would have been an ATG; as things stand, he is not.

If he scores big and helps Pakistan win matches in Australia and England next year, he will be considered as an ATG.

Only 3/30 hundreds have come in England, South Africa (that too on a dry wicket; failed on traditional SA wickets) and New Zealand. His average in Australia looks pretty but he is yet to score a hundred there. Of course, it can change if he scores big next year.

Cook has the most hundreds by an overseas batsmen in the subcontinent and has dominated Australia and India away from home, helping England to historic series wins. Winning the Ashes in Australia and winning in India is the pinnacle for English cricket, and he has played starring roles in both. In addition, he has performed everywhere and has hundreds in all countries. He has played just two Tests against minnows only.

Cook's standing in English cricket today is the same as Younis' in Pakistan cricket; one of the best the country has produced, but unlike Younis, he is entering the prime years of his career and has another 5-6 years left in the tank, which is why he is well on his way to becoming an all-time great, and he is much better placed for that accolade than Younis.

Younis' legacy is that of a middle-order batsman who wasn't good enough to be in the top three of his generation; Cook's legacy is of an opener who was head and shoulders above every opener of his generation. That says everything that needs to be said.
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Mamoon said:
Ponting batted at #4 at the end of his career when he was well past his best, so I am not sure where you are going with this.

Younis started to bat at that position in his peak. There was no justification of throwing a rookie Azhar into the deep end, he should have batted in between Younis and Misbah.

However, Younis has lived up the precedence set by Inzamam and MoYo, i.e. reluctance to bat at 3.

Yes Tendulkar did not have the guts to bat at #3 in Tests and it counts against him; it is one of the few reasons why he is not the best Test batsman ever in spite of holding the most records.

Dravid shielded him from the new ball and that's why he is the unsung hero of Indian cricket; he is overrated by Pakistanis who are bitter towards Tendulkar's greatness and underrated by Sachinistas, who refuse to accept that he played a pivotal role in Tendulkar's success.

Batting at #4 and #5 are the easiest positions to bat for a Test batsman, especially an Asian one; most of them are adept at playing spin, but they struggle against the new ball. At these positions, you are protected from the new ball and you are also well settled at the crease when the second new ball arrives, barring exceptions of course.

At 3, you are more exposed to the new ball and at 6, you are more exposed to the second new ball.
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A batsman who has 30 test centuries with an excellent conversion rate, along with a few double-centuries and a mammoth triple-century "doesn't have much of a case"? A batsman who averages 50+ both away and in the fourth innings of a test match, in addition to having a century against every single team that he has played against, "doesn't have much of a case"? A batsman who has played several iconic knocks against an array of diverse bowlers whilst batting in both, the top and middle order, doesn't have a case? A batsman who is arguably, among the top ten players of spin of all time and who has a very good record in pace bowling havens like England, New Zealand and Australia, "doesn't have much of a case"?

Please. Younis will end his career as an ATG and you, being a Pakistani should be happy about that, not bitter. It is also strange that you say that Younis, "doesn't have much of a case" as far as being an ATG goes but then go on to say that if he scores runs in Australia and England next year, he'll become as good as Kallis and Dravid. If scoring some runs overseas next year is all that it takes to make Younis as good as Dravid, surely he does have a case for ending up as an ATG, right now.

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As for Cook, let it be known that I do think he will end up as one of the all-time greats, possibly even better than someone like Smith. There is a possibility that he won't make it, keeping in mind how the careers of his English peers like KP, Trott, Strauss and even Bell went off-track due to various reasons. However, I believe Cook will make it.

My only problem is with the double-standards that are used with regards to the domination over the bowlers criteria, if you can call it that. Just a couple of days ago, Younis was never going to be an ATG because he doesn't dominate the pacers but that doesn't seem to be a hindrance for Cook.

No need to twist and turn here, dominating certainly does not refer to accumulating runs at your own (slow) pace. This is what Kallis, Dravid and Chanderpaul have done for most of their careers and Cook is no different to these batsmen. The bowlers were generally, never put off their line and length by these steady accumulators, their rhythm was not tinkered with and there was never a threat of the game being taken away by these types. They were certainly never dominant over the bowlers. The game does need it's accumulators and defensive batsmen though, which is why both Kallis and Dravid are two of the best of all time and Chanders nearly misses out.

The divide in the batting-order is between the top order (#1-3) and the middle-order (#4-6). The #3 batsman has as tough a job as the openers, because even though he gets a little respite from the innings turnover and the new-ball, he has the added responsibility of being mentally prepared to play a variety of innings, gets exposed to spin bowling more and is expected to score more runs than an opener. There is a reason the greats of the game say that your best batsman should bat at #3.

Keeping the above in mind, Cook never was the best top-order batsman at any point in his career. This is without considering that there are only 20 openers competing to be the best in the world, whereas there is a much larger pool of 40 batsmen competing to be the best middle-order batsman in the world. You can even start boosting someone up by saying they are the best batsman in the world at a particular position in the batting order but is it really something great if the competition consists of a handful of batsmen? If you want to use peer-comparison, then keep it simple and talk about who the best batsman in the world is. Cook certainly was never the best batsman in the world.

This is the same argument that Steyn's fans use. Just because Steyn is the sole ATG pace bowler in the world today, they cite the massive gap between him and his peers to prove that he's the GOAT as far as fast bowling goes. If you're going to be consistent with your arguments, do you also believe in this? Is Steyn a better bowler than Marshall because the gap between the former and his peers is larger?

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Yes, Ponting moved down to #4 towards the end of his career, I have said as much but it was a tactic implemented to get the best out of him, not because he was suddenly scared of the new ball. The same tactic was used by the Pakistani management and seeing how successful Azhar has been a #3 and how Younis's performances have entered a different level at #4 is justification enough. This isn't a situation like that of Australia where they were trying #3 batsmen left and right and all of them were failing but good 'ole captain Pup never took up the job. Younis was certainly capable of batting at #3 for a lot longer but he didn't need to and would be more beneficial to the team by batting a spot lower, which is what happened.

So just because Asian batsmen are good against spin, #4 and #5 and especially easier for them? Are you using their skill against them? By the same token, opening should be the easiest spot for an English batsman because they are great against pace bowling, no? :yk2

Like it or not, Younis Khan is a future ATG. Cook is one too, even if he's not as god as Khan.
 
Bilal7 said:
A batsman who has 30 test centuries with an excellent conversion rate, along with a few double-centuries and a mammoth triple-century "doesn't have much of a case"? A batsman who averages 50+ both away and in the fourth innings of a test match, in addition to having a century against every single team that he has played against, "doesn't have much of a case"? A batsman who has played several iconic knocks against an array of diverse bowlers whilst batting in both, the top and middle order, doesn't have a case? A batsman who is arguably, among the top ten players of spin of all time and who has a very good record in pace bowling havens like England, New Zealand and Australia, "doesn't have much of a case"?
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ATG status is not attained only by accumulation of runs and hundreds. You cannot be a great if you do not stand out among your peers and competitors, and this has been Younis' problem throughout his career.

He was overshadowed by Inzi and MoYo earlier on in his own team, and interestingly enough, in matches both played together, MoYo has actually outperformed him and played better overseas knocks as well (Australia 04; England 06). Not to mention batsmen in other teams like Tendulkar, Lara, Ponting, Kallis, Dravid who towered above him.

In the last 5-6 years after emerging from Inzi and MoYo's shadow and becoming the undisputed main batsman in the team, he still hasn't been able to rise above his competitors, with the likes of Sangakkara, Amla and de Villiers enjoying superiority over him.

The ultimate legacy of Younis Khan is that of a batsman who was undoubtedly a great for his country, but was not good enough to be even among the top 3 batsmen of his time and hence, he does not qualify for the most universally acceptable criteria of ATG-ness. Younis the Test batsman is comparable to Chanderpaul. Terrific stats, runs, hundreds, averages etc., but never good enough to stand out in his era.

If you consider Chanderpaul an ATG then your criteria is quite a different one, and one that is not shared by most of the neutral observers.

Please. Younis will end his career as an ATG and you, being a Pakistani should be happy about that, not bitter. It is also strange that you say that Younis, "doesn't have much of a case" as far as being an ATG goes but then go on to say that if he scores runs in Australia and England next year, he'll become as good as Kallis and Dravid. If scoring some runs overseas next year is all that it takes to make Younis as good as Dravid, surely he does have a case for ending up as an ATG, right now.
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The problem is that at his age, performing well in Australia and England is quite a long shot, but if he can overcome all of that and perform brilliantly, he will certainly have a very strong case.

Keep in mind that performing in overseas conditions is not necessary to become one of the top batsman in the world at a certain point; someone can be the best batsman in the world after a terrific home season, but titles like ATG etc. are based on your entire careers, and when you consider the entire career, performances in overseas conditions do have a significant role.

Younis has not played in Australia since 2004/2005 and England since 2006 - that is an extremely long time, and it certainly counts against him. He played very well in Australia and England at that time, but he was overshadowed by MoYo in both countries, and thus Younis once again failed to stand out when he had a batsman of comparable class in his team.

Younis only became the stand out batsman for Pakistan from 2010 onwards when both Inzi and MoYo retired (unofficially) and he was surrounded by two rookies in Azhar and Shafiq, as well as Misbah who was never a great.

He had a chance to prove his class in South Africa in 2013 but he failed in both the first and third Test on lively wickets, couldn't even score a 50. He cashed in on the dry wicket of Cape Town but so did Shafiq, and thus once again failed to stood out when he had the opportunity and wasn't even our top scorer.

This is the story of his career - that lack of extra bit to help him come into the limelight. His dominating performance vs. Australia last year was his first in nearly 9 years where he had stamped his authority on the series rather than score in one innings and go missing in the rest, which is why that series has potentially pushed him close to the ATG status, but as I mentioned before, it all depends on how he performs in England and Australia next year.

If he does well, he can sneak into the lower-tier ATG category.

As for Cook, let it be known that I do think he will end up as one of the all-time greats, possibly even better than someone like Smith. There is a possibility that he won't make it, keeping in mind how the careers of his English peers like KP, Trott, Strauss and even Bell went off-track due to various reasons. However, I believe Cook will make it.
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Cook has pretty much made it already. He is only 30 and has achieved more in his career than the vast majority of Test openers in history, and is already breaking records of veterans like Kallis. He has dominated Australia and India away from home and helped his team triumph, and he is potentially going to break Tendulkar's records as well.

Not to forget, he is leagues above other Test openers of his time.

My only problem is with the double-standards that are used with regards to the domination over the bowlers criteria, if you can call it that. Just a couple of days ago, Younis was never going to be an ATG because he doesn't dominate the pacers but that doesn't seem to be a hindrance for Cook.

No need to twist and turn here, dominating certainly does not refer to accumulating runs at your own (slow) pace. This is what Kallis, Dravid and Chanderpaul have done for most of their careers and Cook is no different to these batsmen. The bowlers were generally, never put off their line and length by these steady accumulators, their rhythm was not tinkered with and there was never a threat of the game being taken away by these types. They were certainly never dominant over the bowlers. The game does need it's accumulators and defensive batsmen though, which is why both Kallis and Dravid are two of the best of all time and Chanders nearly misses out.
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You are confusing attacking cricket with dominance. In Tests, you can be dominant even if you are an accumulator, if that was the case then Kallis and Dravid won't be considered all-time greats. However, if you are attacking and capable of destroying the opposition, then it certainly goes in your favor; the likes of Viv Richards, Lara, Ponting and even KP would be rated lower than they are now if they weren't attacking, and that is why Cook will not rank alongside the former three because of the brand of cricket that he plays, but that does not mean that it will stop him from becoming an ATG.

For Younis it is a certainly a problem; he has not dominated any of the big teams enough and as I've explained already, he got overshadowed by MoYo in Australia and England and couldn't even outscore and outperform Shafiq in South Africa in 2013, so this is where he falls short of greatness.

Younis dominated India in India in 2005 and in Pakistan in 2006. He was our best batsman in both series, which is not surprising given his mastery against spin. However, it was only in UAE vs Australia in 2014 that he once again dominated a series even though he had the opportunities - he did not play in England and Australia in 2010 due to his usual dramas, he failed vs. South Africa in the UAE in 2013 and and I've explained the South African series in 2013 as well.

He had a good series in South Africa in 2006-2007 (was our top scorer I think), but it was Inzamam who played a brilliant back of the wall unbeaten 92 in Cape Town to take us from 160-7 to 260-8 while Younis got bounced out by Ntini for 40 odd early in the innings, and in the second innings while chasing 192 he scored a 50, but it was Kamran whose counter-attacking fifty in that partnership took us home.

In the third Test in difficult conditions, he failed and the only batsmen who showed up was MoYo.

So where is that all-time greatness that you are talking about? What are the innings and performances that tower above the best Inzamam and MoYo have produced and neither of them are ATGs?

He has had plenty of opportunities but he has failed to grab them. Most runs and hundreds is not the defining element, for example MoYo was much better placed than Younis to become our top-scorer and leading century-maker but he wasn't greater than Inzi.

The divide in the batting-order is between the top order (#1-3) and the middle-order (#4-6). The #3 batsman has as tough a job as the openers, because even though he gets a little respite from the innings turnover and the new-ball, he has the added responsibility of being mentally prepared to play a variety of innings, gets exposed to spin bowling more and is expected to score more runs than an opener. There is a reason the greats of the game say that your best batsman should bat at #3.
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Number 3 is a tougher position than number 4/5, and the reason why the best batsmen often tend to bat at 3 is because at this position, they are better protected from the new ball and they can grab by the game by the scruff of its neck as well.

This does not make the openers job any easier.
Keeping the above in mind, Cook never was the best top-order batsman at any point in his career. This is without considering that there are only 20 openers competing to be the best in the world, whereas there is a much larger pool of 40 batsmen competing to be the best middle-order batsman in the world. You can even start boosting someone up by saying they are the best batsman in the world at a particular position in the batting order but is it really something great if the competition consists of a handful of batsmen? If you want to use peer-comparison, then keep it simple and talk about who the best batsman in the world is. Cook certainly was never the best batsman in the world.
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Again, you cannot compare middle-order batsmen to openers. They are two different specialist jobs. It doesn't matter if they are 20 or 40 openers, the fact is that Cook is well ahead of his competitors and so was Smith before him, and thus both are definite all-time greats.

Yes it certainly great to be so ahead of your peers like Cook is. He is as ahead of others as a Test opener as Steyn is as a Test bowler.
This is the same argument that Steyn's fans use. Just because Steyn is the sole ATG pace bowler in the world today, they cite the massive gap between him and his peers to prove that he's the GOAT as far as fast bowling goes. If you're going to be consistent with your arguments, do you also believe in this? Is Steyn a better bowler than Marshall because the gap between the former and his peers is larger?
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I have no issues with someone comparing Steyn with Marshall, given how far ahead he is of his peers. He is averaging 22 when most of the top pacers of his era are averaging between 28-30. That is considerable. That is why I have no problem with people calling Bradman the best ever, given how far ahead he was of his time.

I personally prefer Marshall because he looks like a more exciting and intimidating bowler to me, just like I prefer Wasim over McGrath but we know who the better Test bowler was.
Yes, Ponting moved down to #4 towards the end of his career, I have said as much but it was a tactic implemented to get the best out of him, not because he was suddenly scared of the new ball. The same tactic was used by the Pakistani management and seeing how successful Azhar has been a #3 and how Younis's performances have entered a different level at #4 is justification enough. This isn't a situation like that of Australia where they were trying #3 batsmen left and right and all of them were failing but good 'ole captain Pup never took up the job. Younis was certainly capable of batting at #3 for a lot longer but he didn't need to and would be more beneficial to the team by batting a spot lower, which is what happened.
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Just because Azhar did well does not mean it was the right thing to do, and what you call tactic by the think tank has been a tradition of our senior batsmen. None of them were willing to battle the new ball, and Younis is no different in this respect. The fact that he is still not willing to bat at 3 even though Azhar is injured says it all really.

Malik may have scored 245 but he is not a number 3 Test batsman by any means, he should be batting in the middle/lower-oder.

So just because Asian batsmen are good against spin, #4 and #5 and especially easier for them? Are you using their skill against them? By the same token, opening should be the easiest spot for an English batsman because they are great against pace bowling, no? :yk2
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Opening is not easy in any part of the world, especially in England and South Africa because of the lateral movement. It is no surprise that both Cook and Smith average more away from home. For Test openers, their achievements are remarkable.

4/5 is comfort zone for batsmen everywhere, especially for subcontinental batsman who are good against spin. No wonder Tendulkar, Inzi, MoYo, Younis etc. did not have the guts to bat at 3 for most of their careers.

Like it or not, Younis Khan is a future ATG. Cook is one too, even if he's not as god as Khan.
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He isn't, unless he does something special in England/Australia next year; for now he is in the Chanderpaul category, a tier below ATG status.

How is Younis better than Cook? What criteria are you using? Cook has won his team series in Australia and India, where no Englishman can bat. He has just become the must successful overseas batsman in Asia, and he is adept against all types of bowling. Younis is only better at playing spin, but for an Englishman, Cook isn't far behind, while Cook is superior against fast bowling.

You will say Younis has better average, but that is why you cannot go by averages only. Once again, the average of an opener cannot be compared to a middle-order batsman. How many openers in the last 15-20 years have averaged 50+, compared to the number of middle-order batsmen who have?

:tyrion
 
Can Alastair Cook end up with more Test runs than Sachin Tendulkar?

Cook started playing Tests less than 10 years ago and he is nearly at 10,000 runs. He averages around 1k test runs/year and is 31 years old. He has been in decent enough form recently, so it can be reasonably assumed with a good degree of surety that he will play AT LEAST for another 2-3 years and end up with at least 13k runs.

Very high chance that he will overtake Sanga, Dravid, Kallis and Ponting (who is #2 and sits at 13,378) in 2019 when he will be 34.

However, the pinnacle here is SRT...at 15,921 runs. So assuming Cook takes over the #2 spot at age 34, he will need around 2.5k more runs, which he should be able to get if he plays for another 3 more years (age 37).

Considering what we have seen from other players (Younis, Misbah, Sanga) who played/have played beyond age 37, it is not unlikely that Cook has the ability to do the same. So Cook can do that, and if he can continue his form beyond age 34 (which is also quite possible) he can overtake SRTs Test record.
 
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I doubt it.

Cook just doesn't seem to have a technique to survive quality pace bowling. And Aus/SA bowling in tests is improving. India have started producing rank turners so it wont be easy for even a good player of spin like him to score freely there.

In my opinion he will get to 13k max.
 
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HitWicket said:
Cooks quite probably the fittest batsman around in test cricket right now so I'd expect to see him stay on longer than that.
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Sure about mental aspect?

English players suffer from psychological issues more than others though.
 
Almost 4 years ago when he was at the age of 27years and reeling around 7000+ runs I had the same thought that he could surpass SRT but over the past 4 years his pace for scoring runs dropped down. It may be his age factor and given the same reason he may not be able to even surpass Kallis and ponting or even sanga unless he decided to stay until the age 38.

Sent from my SM-G900FD using Tapatalk
 
Tendulkar started playing at 16 and he played for 24 years from then on. Even if Cook plays till the age of 36, that will still be 10 years less than Tendulkar. So it's doubtful he can reach the mark. And ECB will drop him as soon as his form dips so he may retire at 35 or even before.

However, if you ignore age and ECB factor, then he has a shot. After 125 matches, Tendulkar had scored 10281 runs. And he played 75 matches after that, scoring 5k runs. So, if Cook plays another 75 matches then he will definitely break Tendulkar's record.
 
3 years ago he had a legit chance but Cook has a tendency to have one lean season ever 3 seasons or so which hurts his bid for this record big time. Secondly as an opener he naturally doesn't get the same run scoring opportunities as middle order batsmen. Opening is the toughest position in Tests.

Finally I doubt he will play till he's 40
 
He averages 46 and is hardly a batsman people wanna watch play so even if he crosses the mark somewhow it won't do him much favour and 99% people would still comfortably put Tendulkar over.

Was a relevant question 3 years ago though when he was averaging 50+, had just won Ashes, and a test series in India through his own batting.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
He averages 46 and is hardly a batsman people wanna watch play so even if he crosses the mark somewhow it won't do him much favour and 99% people would still comfortably put Tendulkar over.

Was a relevant question 3 years ago though when he was averaging 50+, had just won Ashes, and a test series in India through his own batting.
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An opener averaging 45 is equivalent to a middle order averaging 50. Agree with your other points though
 
Well he is a better batsman than SRT, it is only a matter of time that he surpasses him in number of runs scored and other parameters.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
He averages 46 and is hardly a batsman people wanna watch play so even if he crosses the mark somewhow it won't do him much favour and 99% people would still comfortably put Tendulkar over.

Was a relevant question 3 years ago though when he was averaging 50+, had just won Ashes, and a test series in India through his own batting.
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Didn't know indians care about averages over longevity. Isn't longevity what makes Tendulkar exceptional in the first place? Otherwise, there are plenty of batsmen with better averages and a more attractive game than him. You shouldn't use double standards just because it's Cook.
 
It's a wet dream of some Pakistanis to see Sachins runs record being broken. Dunno why. But I guess the major claim to fame Sachin has is the longevity records like most runs, most centuries etc so it would really suck for him if someone else takes it after a fraction of matches as him
 
endymion248 said:
Didn't know indians care about averages over longevity. Isn't longevity what makes Tendulkar exceptional in the first place? Otherwise, there are plenty of batsmen with better averages and a more attractive game than him. You shouldn't use double standards just because it's Cook.
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What?

Who has a better average than Tendulkar?
 
Don't think Cook will play another ODI, he has played 92 so far.

In 24 years of career, SRT played 463 one dayers. 463-92 = 371. That's about 5 times more work load than Cook's workload for tests.

Come on! Cookie stay fit and get that number. SRT did it with 5 times more work load.
 
It seems to be every Tendulkar fan's self-defense mechanism that even if he does, he won't be considered a better batsman.

Of course not, but it will still be a massive achievement for Cook. Personally I don't think he will get there.
 
Mamoon said:
It seems to be every Tendulkar fan's self-defense mechanism that even if he does, he won't be considered a better batsman.

Of course not, but it will still be a massive achievement for Cook. Personally I don't think he will get there.
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It would mean somethig if someone like KP, Ponting gets there though.

Sanga, Kallis, Cook etc all in same boat. They never had a chance to begin with.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
He averages 46 and is hardly a batsman people wanna watch play so even if he crosses the mark somewhow it won't do him much favour and 99% people would still comfortably put Tendulkar over.
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I am not talking about who's better or will end up better, I'm talking about if Cook will break SRT's record. Quite an insecure fella you are
 
freelance_cricketer said:
It would mean somethig if someone like KP, Ponting gets there though.

Sanga, Kallis, Cook etc all in same boat. They never had a chance to begin with.
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It will definitely mean something to non-Indians. Yes all three are similar but the difference is that Cook became prolific at a very young age.
 
To belittle Tendulkar's achievements as 'longetivity records' is unfair (although understandable since this is a Pakistani forum)

Bowlers like Warne,Donald,McGrath, Steyn etc at various points of their careers have mentioned that he is the best they've faced. One of the few batsmen to have scored tons against every ATG bowler he has faced (and he faced many, probably thrice as many Cook will face in his career) and average 40+ in every cricketing nation he set foot in (for 24 long years)

And to do that while having the second most successful ODI career after Viv Richards is quite something.
 
Itl be a great achievement if he does break tendulkars record, but it doesn't mean to say cook will be a better bat than tendulkar, likewise tendulkar has more runs than lara but in my opinion lara at peak was in a league of his own
 
Mamoon said:
It will definitely mean something to non-Indians. Yes all three are similar but the difference is that Cook became prolific at a very young age.
Click to expand...

Having 3 of our own in the 10k club, we'd be most welcoming to new members. Alistair is a very nice bloke, i see no Indian insecurity with him. Just stating the obviopus to establish where Cook's priorities should lie. He's done swimming with little fishes and with his entry into the club he'll have to make a niche for himself. To average 46 in today's era is anything but legendary.
 
freelance_cricketer said:
When did Younis Khan have a better average than Tendulkar? What are we talking here?
Click to expand...

I can understand if you blocked it out of your memory, happens with traumatic events.

ENpsd8u.png

cZybMf2.png
 
endymion248 said:
I can understand if you blocked it out of your memory, happens with traumatic events.

ENpsd8u.png

cZybMf2.png
Click to expand...
One player can barely play pace and has a horrible record overseas while other has remained consistently reliable throughout his career. I'll leave the verdict to the neutrals.

Drops mic
 
Not impossible , but extremely hard.

ST's records are almost unbeatable. Only Kohli has a chance of beating ST's record of 49 ODI centuries.
 
Aman said:
YK wouldn't be averaging 53 after 300+ innings.
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It's not even that.

Younis has placed most of his games home at for last 05 years, so that totally takes the gloss off.

Sachin averages above 40 in almost every country in the world, while Younis would have weak averages if they break it down.

That's a misleading average.
 
Records are meant to be broken but doubt cook has in it him to break this record. He owes a lot to Andy flower for being the captain after a horrendous year with bat and uninspiring stint as captain.

Also has a sense of entitlement and comes across as a whiny prat with comments like "Something needs to be done about Warne" and "so called friend" comment on Swann after latter criticised his captaincy.

He has a good technique but doesn't seem mentally strong enough to last that long.
 
Aman said:
YK wouldn't be averaging 53 after 300+ innings.
Click to expand...

Good to see an intelligent poster on here for a change.


Its funny when people compare stats of people having played 100-2-- innings with Tendulkar lol. 12 years vs 24 years. Good job. :14:
 
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