SO it begins, the fallout of the disastrous defence of the WC crown...
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Can England retain their World Cup title in 2023?
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New Delhi, Nov 2 (PTI) England cricketers have resorted to a sporadic use of inhalers to deal with high-pollution levels in major Indian cities over the course of their dismal World Cup campaign.
British newspaper 'I' reported that the some of the England cricketers were forced to take inhalers, usually used by people suffering from Asthma.
Test captain Ben Stokes was seen using the inhalers during training ahead of the game against Sri Lanka in Bangalore.
British newspaper 'I' reported that the some of the England cricketers were forced to take inhalers, usually used by people suffering from Asthma.
Test captain Ben Stokes was seen using the inhalers during training ahead of the game against Sri Lanka in Bangalore.
He’s been mistreated by the ECB board. He’s resigning more in protest of that than the performance. They selected him and once again refused to offer him a central contract.
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Cricket World Cup 2023: Joe Root says he would still choose England's XI over Australia's
Joe Root says he would still choose England's XI over Australia's "every day" despite their struggles at the World Cup in India.
England are bottom of the table and are effectively out after five defeats in six matches while Australia are third after four wins in a row.
Australia will mathematically end England's title defence with a win on Saturday in Ahmedabad.
"Man for man I'd have this team every day over the Australians," said Root.
"We might not have played as well as we can but when we play our best stuff, the best teams struggle to compete with us.
"We have to remember that and take that into the next couple of days, both in physical practice and mentally to make sure we're in that frame of mind to take on Australia, which is what it's about for us now."
England came into the World Cup as one of the favourites but have struggled throughout.
They were thrashed in their opening game by New Zealand, then beat Bangladesh, but have since lost to Afghanistan, South Africa, Sri Lanka and India.
Root said it was a "great time" for England to play Australia, as they look to end the competition on a high and qualify for the 2025 Champions Trophy in Pakistan.
They must finish in the top seven to guarantee a spot in that tournament, though eighth will be good enough if Pakistan finish in the top seven.
"It's great opportunity to get back to what we expect of ourselves, the levels we put on ourselves, the levels that are expected externally as well," said Root.
"We're a far better side than what we've shown."
Australia will be without all-rounders Mitchell Marsh, who has flown home for personal reasons, and Glenn Maxwell, who suffered a concussion after falling off the back of a golf buggy.
Root said England's performance has been "frustrating" but said it was not similar to the disintegration experienced at previous World Cups or Ashes tours.
"This doesn't remind me of any previous experiences," added the former Test captain, who featured in the 5-0 Ashes defeat of 2013-14, and the 2015 World Cup, where England exited at the pool stage.
"It has been unique in many ways.
"Other tours, previous Ashes, there's been other stuff going on away from the performances that had a massive effect on how we played - this is not comparable to those experiences."
Instead, Root said England's players had "let down" captain Jos Buttler.
"I feel this isn't a reflection of his captaincy," said Root.
"He's a brilliant leader, he's got a great cricket mind on the field, and he'll do a number of wonderful things as an England captain in the future.
"If it's another motivator for us as a group of players, it's to start performing to a level that is respectful to him as a captain."
BBC
Joe Root says he would still choose England's XI over Australia's "every day" despite their struggles at the World Cup in India.
England are bottom of the table and are effectively out after five defeats in six matches while Australia are third after four wins in a row.
Australia will mathematically end England's title defence with a win on Saturday in Ahmedabad.
"Man for man I'd have this team every day over the Australians," said Root.
"We might not have played as well as we can but when we play our best stuff, the best teams struggle to compete with us.
"We have to remember that and take that into the next couple of days, both in physical practice and mentally to make sure we're in that frame of mind to take on Australia, which is what it's about for us now."
England came into the World Cup as one of the favourites but have struggled throughout.
They were thrashed in their opening game by New Zealand, then beat Bangladesh, but have since lost to Afghanistan, South Africa, Sri Lanka and India.
Root said it was a "great time" for England to play Australia, as they look to end the competition on a high and qualify for the 2025 Champions Trophy in Pakistan.
They must finish in the top seven to guarantee a spot in that tournament, though eighth will be good enough if Pakistan finish in the top seven.
"It's great opportunity to get back to what we expect of ourselves, the levels we put on ourselves, the levels that are expected externally as well," said Root.
"We're a far better side than what we've shown."
Australia will be without all-rounders Mitchell Marsh, who has flown home for personal reasons, and Glenn Maxwell, who suffered a concussion after falling off the back of a golf buggy.
Root said England's performance has been "frustrating" but said it was not similar to the disintegration experienced at previous World Cups or Ashes tours.
"This doesn't remind me of any previous experiences," added the former Test captain, who featured in the 5-0 Ashes defeat of 2013-14, and the 2015 World Cup, where England exited at the pool stage.
"It has been unique in many ways.
"Other tours, previous Ashes, there's been other stuff going on away from the performances that had a massive effect on how we played - this is not comparable to those experiences."
Instead, Root said England's players had "let down" captain Jos Buttler.
"I feel this isn't a reflection of his captaincy," said Root.
"He's a brilliant leader, he's got a great cricket mind on the field, and he'll do a number of wonderful things as an England captain in the future.
"If it's another motivator for us as a group of players, it's to start performing to a level that is respectful to him as a captain."
BBC
Undoubtedly the worst World Cup performance in history considering the expectations bestowed upon them. Before the WC, I thought they were an intelligent batting lineup who had revolutionized cricket. Now I’m starting to feel they’re all glorified hacks who managed to luck their way to a WC in 2019 in home conditions. Don’t forget they were defeated by relatively weak Pakistan and Sri Lankan teams during the group stage of their tournament as well.
When history looks back, it will look at 2015-2019 as an aberration of what has been a horrible horrible 20 years of English cricket. Don’t forget, they also haven’t held the Ashes since 2017. New Zealand has not managed to actually win a tournament but looking at overall results and consistency they’ve clearly been the best team of around the last 10 years.
When history looks back, it will look at 2015-2019 as an aberration of what has been a horrible horrible 20 years of English cricket. Don’t forget, they also haven’t held the Ashes since 2017. New Zealand has not managed to actually win a tournament but looking at overall results and consistency they’ve clearly been the best team of around the last 10 years.
But everything is hunky dory and fine during ipl lol !
.. but yeah something needs to be done for the aur pollution levelsYupp, as I posted somewhere else, cronyism at play in ECB as well. However if England were on track to semis he wouldnt have announced retirement mid tourney, if nothing else he would have wanted to play in KOs.
With no chance of England qualifying hes announced it mid WC.
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3 November - Ahmedabad - England player Ben Stokes pre-match press conference
[Reporter:]
Obviously, the results haven't been what you wanted but playing Australia, is that something that almost exists in its own bubble and provides its own goal and its own motivation?
[Ben Stokes:]
Yeah, I think, England and Australia is in any sport whenever the two nations come together and play against each other it's always a big occasion. Sort of regardless of if that's in a World Cup or bilateral series or whatever it may be - you're right in saying that.
We've had a disastrous World Cup and there's no point sugarcoating that because it's the truth. But we know these last three games, for us, we've got a lot to play for. I think the biggest thing that we've got to play for is obviously the pride of what it is to put the three lines on your chest, walking out onto the field every time is a very special occasion and something that we value very highly. So, yeah, I know there'll be a lot of noise around England, Australia in the next game, but regardless of who we play against the feeling of putting that shirt on is something that we take very seriously.
[Reporter:]
And the people watching back home obviously it's three months since the Ashes finished and the rivalry the tensions and stuff on the field, create great interest in the game in cricket and got a lot of people invested. So, it's just another chance to sort of entertain back home and keep those people involved.
[Ben Stokes:]
Yeah, I guess so. I hope people from Australia watch and I hope people from England watch.
[Reporter:]
On a personal level for you as well, you came out of retirement and the job then was to get to the final stages, get into those big moments. Obviously, as you said, it's been disastrous. You're not able to do that, but do you still feel that there's something for you personally to do and play for when you can't get to those end stages?
[Ben Stokes:]
Yeah, it just goes back to what I said there. Never take every game you play for your country for granted. That's enough for me.
[Reporter:]
Mohammad Shami is obviously bowling beautifully at the moment; can you talk us through what it was like to face him and what sort of challenges he offers at the moment?
[Ben Stokes:]
I've played a lot of cricket against Shami, he's a fantastic bowler and I think we watched him last night and they brought a stat up in a World Cup is quite phenomenal actually. He's been obviously the bowler of the World Cup, I think. I don't think he's played every game but the way in which he's, in every situation and every game he's come in it's been incredible the amount of wickets he's taken. He's just found a way to be able to get wickets. Obviously that spell against us was one of many he's had this World Cup. Sometimes you just say to the opposition that you're very good and Mohamed Shami's been very good throughout this whole World Cup.
[Reporter:]
Can I just ask about your bowling, you've been an all-rounder your whole cricketing life, haven't you? How has it been, just being in the field? Is it very frustrating? And how long until we might see you bowling again?
[Ben Stokes:]
Not bowling makes it seem a lot longer than what it normally is. But it's been, obviously over the last 18 months, it's been will I, won't I, whereas actually this World Cup it's not had to sort of worry about that and be able to just focus on going out there and trying to contribute to team with runs which is obviously something I've not been able to do, but yeah, it's probably the first time since I've had this knee issue where it's been quite clear that I'm not going to be bowling.
So, from that sense, it's probably actually been not relief, but just not having to worry about, waking up and going, yeah - feel like I can bowl today. Or nah, not today. If that makes sense.
[Reporter:]
In this World Cup campaign as England have sort of lost games, a lot of the players, coach, have come out and not been able to put their finger on what actually has gone wrong so quickly. And everything's sort of been the same, feeling in the group is good, all that sort of thing. Is there anything that you have been able to recognize? And if not, is the fact that no one's been able to work out what's gone wrong, is that part of actually the problem?
[Ben Stokes:]
No, I think the problem is that we've been crap. To be honest with you, we've been crap. Everything we've tried throughout this World Cup, through trying to put pressure back onto the opposition in a way in which we know, or trying to soak up the pressure in a different way, which we know we've done before and been successful with, it's just not worked.
Every opportunity that we've had in front of us where we feel like we can take control of the game, the opposition's managed to get it back towards them. And we've just not been able to put a full game together, or even got close to putting a full game together except against Bangladesh. If you dive too much into it around cricket, you find you come out with more questions than answers.
We know that as individuals and as a team, I think that's where it is as a team, we've been nowhere near good enough to be able to compete in a World Cup, which has been incredibly disappointing because we know we're so, so much better than what we've shown out here. And not having an answer and being able to understand as to why it's gone wrong is very simple. That's the answer. Because if we knew what had gone wrong, we would have been able to fix it. But unfortunately, we don't. It's just been one of those tournaments where, yeah, it's just been a disaster. And there's no point sugarcoating it because it's probably what you're all going to write anyway, and it's true.
[Reporter:]
You say if you knew what was wrong, you'd fix it. You've been in situations, whether as captain or at the T20 World Cup last year in Australia where you sort of came out and gave a bit of inspiration yourself whether it be in a talk or on the field, is there anything that you do before a game like this?
[Ben Stokes:]
I think through experience it's something that I've always - well especially over the last five six seven years is I've always been able to stay quite level through success and through failure. I'm only as good as my next game, which is an easy way to park success and park failure, and then just concentrate on the next game ahead of us.
You can't live on a reputation of things that's gone on in the past, because you're always judged on by what you do on any given day. But, yeah, can't really explain or say as to why things have gone so wrong for us as a team.
[Reporter:]
Now that you've played most of the teams in India, sort of playing for pride, who would be your World Cup winners, if I would ask you to predict which is the team, I mean, would it be India, or would it be South Africa, who's also making big totals, big scores.
[Ben Stokes:]
South Africa looking good? Probably not the answer you wanted.
[Reporter:]
You spoke about the obvious chatter that comes with Australia-England contest, but personally do you have a way of like dealing with it? Do you get amused by it? Do you like hearing everything that people are saying? Or do you just dismiss it and say, doesn't matter to me?
[Ben Stokes:]
Yeah, playing for as long as I've played, you know what comes with it. There's always a bit more chatter when England play Australia and whatever it is. So yeah, you just see it and I understand why. It's a bit like when India and Pakistan come and play each other. There's always going to be that rivalry.
[Reporter:]
If you have to pick a single funny or happy moment on this tour, which you've said has been a crap, but anything funny, anything happy that you would take away, that sticks in your mind?
[Ben Stokes:]
Sorry, I wasn't prepared for that question. Ask me again tomorrow and I'll have some of that.
[Reporter:]
You've been a part of two global teams that have won global titles, 2019 and then last year. Compared to those two teams and one here, is there anything that's changed in the dressing room or on the field? I mean, obviously performance is the one big thing and results, but anything apart from that that's changed?
[Ben Stokes:]
Performances and results.
[Reporter:]
I think we all know England are really struggling to go through, not mathematically out yet, if that was to come tomorrow against Australia and they were the ones to knock you out, mathematically speaking does that make it worse than anywhere that it's your big rivals?
[Ben Stokes:]
No, I thought about it though. No, I don’t think who you lose the World Cup, you're out, you're out. I don’t think it matters.
[Reporter:]
We saw you using an inhaler on the ground. In Bangalore, Is the air too bad? Are you guys struggling, you and the England players, with that?
[Ben Stokes:]
I've actually got exercise and juice asthma, so sometimes going from - I get it when it's cold, but obviously it doesn't happen here that often. But sometimes it happens when you go to a new city in India where the air is slightly different. So yeah, that could be a reason for it. Bangalore when we actually turned up just felt a lot fresher, but doing the running that I was doing does bring it on a lot easier than normal. So, that could be a reason for it.
[Reporter:]
I was going to ask you about the inhaler as well. Is that condition something that's new? Have you had it a number of years?
[Ben Stokes:]
I've had it for ages, yeah.
[Reporter:]
Any other players been using inhalers over here?
[Ben Stokes:]
Not that I know of.
[Reporter:]
Just checking on the knee, is coming to the World Cup delayed having an operation or any further treatment? And are you going to be okay for the Test Series in February?
[Ben Stokes:]
Yeah, I'll be fine for the Test Series in India. But yeah, I am having surgery after the World Cup.
[Reporter:]
And have you been told what you're having done and how long you'll be?
[Ben Stokes:]
Well, so we go to those meetings and generally take a physio and a doctor with me and then those two-start talking and then I just turn up and get put to sleep, wake up and hopefully it's better.[/S]
[Reporter:]
Obviously, the results haven't been what you wanted but playing Australia, is that something that almost exists in its own bubble and provides its own goal and its own motivation?
[Ben Stokes:]
Yeah, I think, England and Australia is in any sport whenever the two nations come together and play against each other it's always a big occasion. Sort of regardless of if that's in a World Cup or bilateral series or whatever it may be - you're right in saying that.
We've had a disastrous World Cup and there's no point sugarcoating that because it's the truth. But we know these last three games, for us, we've got a lot to play for. I think the biggest thing that we've got to play for is obviously the pride of what it is to put the three lines on your chest, walking out onto the field every time is a very special occasion and something that we value very highly. So, yeah, I know there'll be a lot of noise around England, Australia in the next game, but regardless of who we play against the feeling of putting that shirt on is something that we take very seriously.
[Reporter:]
And the people watching back home obviously it's three months since the Ashes finished and the rivalry the tensions and stuff on the field, create great interest in the game in cricket and got a lot of people invested. So, it's just another chance to sort of entertain back home and keep those people involved.
[Ben Stokes:]
Yeah, I guess so. I hope people from Australia watch and I hope people from England watch.
[Reporter:]
On a personal level for you as well, you came out of retirement and the job then was to get to the final stages, get into those big moments. Obviously, as you said, it's been disastrous. You're not able to do that, but do you still feel that there's something for you personally to do and play for when you can't get to those end stages?
[Ben Stokes:]
Yeah, it just goes back to what I said there. Never take every game you play for your country for granted. That's enough for me.
[Reporter:]
Mohammad Shami is obviously bowling beautifully at the moment; can you talk us through what it was like to face him and what sort of challenges he offers at the moment?
[Ben Stokes:]
I've played a lot of cricket against Shami, he's a fantastic bowler and I think we watched him last night and they brought a stat up in a World Cup is quite phenomenal actually. He's been obviously the bowler of the World Cup, I think. I don't think he's played every game but the way in which he's, in every situation and every game he's come in it's been incredible the amount of wickets he's taken. He's just found a way to be able to get wickets. Obviously that spell against us was one of many he's had this World Cup. Sometimes you just say to the opposition that you're very good and Mohamed Shami's been very good throughout this whole World Cup.
[Reporter:]
Can I just ask about your bowling, you've been an all-rounder your whole cricketing life, haven't you? How has it been, just being in the field? Is it very frustrating? And how long until we might see you bowling again?
[Ben Stokes:]
Not bowling makes it seem a lot longer than what it normally is. But it's been, obviously over the last 18 months, it's been will I, won't I, whereas actually this World Cup it's not had to sort of worry about that and be able to just focus on going out there and trying to contribute to team with runs which is obviously something I've not been able to do, but yeah, it's probably the first time since I've had this knee issue where it's been quite clear that I'm not going to be bowling.
So, from that sense, it's probably actually been not relief, but just not having to worry about, waking up and going, yeah - feel like I can bowl today. Or nah, not today. If that makes sense.
[Reporter:]
In this World Cup campaign as England have sort of lost games, a lot of the players, coach, have come out and not been able to put their finger on what actually has gone wrong so quickly. And everything's sort of been the same, feeling in the group is good, all that sort of thing. Is there anything that you have been able to recognize? And if not, is the fact that no one's been able to work out what's gone wrong, is that part of actually the problem?
[Ben Stokes:]
No, I think the problem is that we've been crap. To be honest with you, we've been crap. Everything we've tried throughout this World Cup, through trying to put pressure back onto the opposition in a way in which we know, or trying to soak up the pressure in a different way, which we know we've done before and been successful with, it's just not worked.
Every opportunity that we've had in front of us where we feel like we can take control of the game, the opposition's managed to get it back towards them. And we've just not been able to put a full game together, or even got close to putting a full game together except against Bangladesh. If you dive too much into it around cricket, you find you come out with more questions than answers.
We know that as individuals and as a team, I think that's where it is as a team, we've been nowhere near good enough to be able to compete in a World Cup, which has been incredibly disappointing because we know we're so, so much better than what we've shown out here. And not having an answer and being able to understand as to why it's gone wrong is very simple. That's the answer. Because if we knew what had gone wrong, we would have been able to fix it. But unfortunately, we don't. It's just been one of those tournaments where, yeah, it's just been a disaster. And there's no point sugarcoating it because it's probably what you're all going to write anyway, and it's true.
[Reporter:]
You say if you knew what was wrong, you'd fix it. You've been in situations, whether as captain or at the T20 World Cup last year in Australia where you sort of came out and gave a bit of inspiration yourself whether it be in a talk or on the field, is there anything that you do before a game like this?
[Ben Stokes:]
I think through experience it's something that I've always - well especially over the last five six seven years is I've always been able to stay quite level through success and through failure. I'm only as good as my next game, which is an easy way to park success and park failure, and then just concentrate on the next game ahead of us.
You can't live on a reputation of things that's gone on in the past, because you're always judged on by what you do on any given day. But, yeah, can't really explain or say as to why things have gone so wrong for us as a team.
[Reporter:]
Now that you've played most of the teams in India, sort of playing for pride, who would be your World Cup winners, if I would ask you to predict which is the team, I mean, would it be India, or would it be South Africa, who's also making big totals, big scores.
[Ben Stokes:]
South Africa looking good? Probably not the answer you wanted.
[Reporter:]
You spoke about the obvious chatter that comes with Australia-England contest, but personally do you have a way of like dealing with it? Do you get amused by it? Do you like hearing everything that people are saying? Or do you just dismiss it and say, doesn't matter to me?
[Ben Stokes:]
Yeah, playing for as long as I've played, you know what comes with it. There's always a bit more chatter when England play Australia and whatever it is. So yeah, you just see it and I understand why. It's a bit like when India and Pakistan come and play each other. There's always going to be that rivalry.
[Reporter:]
If you have to pick a single funny or happy moment on this tour, which you've said has been a crap, but anything funny, anything happy that you would take away, that sticks in your mind?
[Ben Stokes:]
Sorry, I wasn't prepared for that question. Ask me again tomorrow and I'll have some of that.
[Reporter:]
You've been a part of two global teams that have won global titles, 2019 and then last year. Compared to those two teams and one here, is there anything that's changed in the dressing room or on the field? I mean, obviously performance is the one big thing and results, but anything apart from that that's changed?
[Ben Stokes:]
Performances and results.
[Reporter:]
I think we all know England are really struggling to go through, not mathematically out yet, if that was to come tomorrow against Australia and they were the ones to knock you out, mathematically speaking does that make it worse than anywhere that it's your big rivals?
[Ben Stokes:]
No, I thought about it though. No, I don’t think who you lose the World Cup, you're out, you're out. I don’t think it matters.
[Reporter:]
We saw you using an inhaler on the ground. In Bangalore, Is the air too bad? Are you guys struggling, you and the England players, with that?
[Ben Stokes:]
I've actually got exercise and juice asthma, so sometimes going from - I get it when it's cold, but obviously it doesn't happen here that often. But sometimes it happens when you go to a new city in India where the air is slightly different. So yeah, that could be a reason for it. Bangalore when we actually turned up just felt a lot fresher, but doing the running that I was doing does bring it on a lot easier than normal. So, that could be a reason for it.
[Reporter:]
I was going to ask you about the inhaler as well. Is that condition something that's new? Have you had it a number of years?
[Ben Stokes:]
I've had it for ages, yeah.
[Reporter:]
Any other players been using inhalers over here?
[Ben Stokes:]
Not that I know of.
[Reporter:]
Just checking on the knee, is coming to the World Cup delayed having an operation or any further treatment? And are you going to be okay for the Test Series in February?
[Ben Stokes:]
Yeah, I'll be fine for the Test Series in India. But yeah, I am having surgery after the World Cup.
[Reporter:]
And have you been told what you're having done and how long you'll be?
[Ben Stokes:]
Well, so we go to those meetings and generally take a physio and a doctor with me and then those two-start talking and then I just turn up and get put to sleep, wake up and hopefully it's better.[/S]
FearlessRoar
T20I Star
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- Sep 11, 2023
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- 30,521
England’s title defence is on the brink of collapsing well short of the knockout stages at the ICC Men’s Cricket World Cup 2023.
A sixth defeat coming at the hands of arch-rivals Australia on Saturday, or in one of their other remaining matches against Netherlands and Bangladesh, will confirm what already seems most likely - England’s title defence is over before it truly began.
"It has been a disastrous defence of the title,” Atherton said on the latest episode of The ICC Review podcast.
"I think most people could accept a team that played pretty decent cricket and just came up short. That happens in sport.
"There is no divine right to win every game, no divine right to win these competitions, and England have been very good for a long time
"But it's the way England have just been hammered. If you look at the defeats, five of them have been by unbelievable margins.
"I don't think anybody saw that coming, and it is very difficult to understand.”
England’s campaign has barely got going after being thumped in the tournament opener - a rematch of the epic 2019 final against New Zealand - by nine wickets.
The convincing 137-run win over Bangladesh that followed put England back on track, but four straight defeats since then mean they have one win from six matches and a growing list of problems to address.
"The end result is England have not done very well, and therefore you'll find reasons to fit the performance,” Atherton said.
"So whether it's the toss, whether it's the selection, whether it's the central contracts that were announced, who knows?"
"You could probably say it's a combination of all those things, little things that have added up and eventually have meant that this team is a long way short of where it should be.”
England’s biggest-ever defeat in terms of runs in an ODI came against South Africa when they never looked like reaching the target of 400 and soon collapsed to fall 229 runs short.
That result was one of several crushing losses that have left England with the worst net run rate at the tournament and in bottom place on the standings with three matches to play.
"The obvious mistakes, the biggest I thought was the toss at Mumbai when Jos (Buttler) put South Africa in to bat on a roasting hot day, a must-win game,” Atherton said.
"But I thought that was, in terms of the captain's role, that was the biggest mistake.
"You can then look at other things like selection, but I had sympathy for making one or two changes because they were going so poorly before that.”
England have managed one century to opener Dawid Malan and four fifties across an entire batting group that has made little impact in a tournament otherwise being powered by big hitting and record-breaking totals.
Joe Root has two half-centuries but like the rest of the current middle-order is averaging under 30 and with a strike rate under 100 at this Cricket World Cup.
Even Ben Stokes, so often England's saviour including in the 2019 World Cup final, has had little influence with 48 runs in three knocks since overcoming injury issues that still prevent him from bowling.
"The bottom line is that many of their best players have just not hit form. Root, (Jonny) Bairstow, Stokes, Butler himself, they are all over 30 but they're not over the hill.” Atherton said.
"What happens in sport is that confidence just drains away rather more quickly than it builds up."
"It takes a long time for a team to become dominant as England were in one-day cricket, a long time to build that kind of really strong core of confidence there. But it doesn't take much for it to whittle away."
"One or two players not hitting form, one or two defeats, and suddenly you're in crisis mode and that can be very difficult to change.”
Source: ICC
A sixth defeat coming at the hands of arch-rivals Australia on Saturday, or in one of their other remaining matches against Netherlands and Bangladesh, will confirm what already seems most likely - England’s title defence is over before it truly began.
"It has been a disastrous defence of the title,” Atherton said on the latest episode of The ICC Review podcast.
"I think most people could accept a team that played pretty decent cricket and just came up short. That happens in sport.
"There is no divine right to win every game, no divine right to win these competitions, and England have been very good for a long time
"But it's the way England have just been hammered. If you look at the defeats, five of them have been by unbelievable margins.
"I don't think anybody saw that coming, and it is very difficult to understand.”
England’s campaign has barely got going after being thumped in the tournament opener - a rematch of the epic 2019 final against New Zealand - by nine wickets.
The convincing 137-run win over Bangladesh that followed put England back on track, but four straight defeats since then mean they have one win from six matches and a growing list of problems to address.
"The end result is England have not done very well, and therefore you'll find reasons to fit the performance,” Atherton said.
"So whether it's the toss, whether it's the selection, whether it's the central contracts that were announced, who knows?"
"You could probably say it's a combination of all those things, little things that have added up and eventually have meant that this team is a long way short of where it should be.”
England’s biggest-ever defeat in terms of runs in an ODI came against South Africa when they never looked like reaching the target of 400 and soon collapsed to fall 229 runs short.
That result was one of several crushing losses that have left England with the worst net run rate at the tournament and in bottom place on the standings with three matches to play.
"The obvious mistakes, the biggest I thought was the toss at Mumbai when Jos (Buttler) put South Africa in to bat on a roasting hot day, a must-win game,” Atherton said.
"But I thought that was, in terms of the captain's role, that was the biggest mistake.
"You can then look at other things like selection, but I had sympathy for making one or two changes because they were going so poorly before that.”
England have managed one century to opener Dawid Malan and four fifties across an entire batting group that has made little impact in a tournament otherwise being powered by big hitting and record-breaking totals.
Joe Root has two half-centuries but like the rest of the current middle-order is averaging under 30 and with a strike rate under 100 at this Cricket World Cup.
Even Ben Stokes, so often England's saviour including in the 2019 World Cup final, has had little influence with 48 runs in three knocks since overcoming injury issues that still prevent him from bowling.
"The bottom line is that many of their best players have just not hit form. Root, (Jonny) Bairstow, Stokes, Butler himself, they are all over 30 but they're not over the hill.” Atherton said.
"What happens in sport is that confidence just drains away rather more quickly than it builds up."
"It takes a long time for a team to become dominant as England were in one-day cricket, a long time to build that kind of really strong core of confidence there. But it doesn't take much for it to whittle away."
"One or two players not hitting form, one or two defeats, and suddenly you're in crisis mode and that can be very difficult to change.”
Source: ICC
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FearlessRoar
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Defending champions England are Officially Out of the World Cup after a 33-run defeat to Australia in Ahmedabad!
IAJ
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I wonder which one has performed worst in this WC: England's batting or Pakistan's bowling? England obviously out of the WC but pakistani bowling have been pathetic as well.
Amjid Javed
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What a shambles of a world cup for England, I hope they have one very poor performance left in them for when they play pakistan
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Must be the worse title defense ever!
Knocked out at the hands of their arch rivals.
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Buttler: We have let everyone down
England skipper Jos Buttler:
"Disappointment. I feel like we're having the same chat after every game at the minute. There are improvements again today, getting back to more like the stuff we can play, but it is still short.
"It's certainly a low point. I've had a few but definitely as a captain, to be stood in this position when you arrive in India with very high hopes is incredibly tough.
"We certainly haven't done ourselves justice. Coming into the tournament we fancy ourselves to have a real go at it and push whoever it was going to be all the way. It's incredibly tough, you know, to reach those highs. Everyone knows how much hard work goes into that. And even when you come up short, there's so much hard work that goes into into that.
"We've let ourselves down. We've let people down at home that the people who support us through thick and thin."
England skipper Jos Buttler:
"Disappointment. I feel like we're having the same chat after every game at the minute. There are improvements again today, getting back to more like the stuff we can play, but it is still short.
"It's certainly a low point. I've had a few but definitely as a captain, to be stood in this position when you arrive in India with very high hopes is incredibly tough.
"We certainly haven't done ourselves justice. Coming into the tournament we fancy ourselves to have a real go at it and push whoever it was going to be all the way. It's incredibly tough, you know, to reach those highs. Everyone knows how much hard work goes into that. And even when you come up short, there's so much hard work that goes into into that.
"We've let ourselves down. We've let people down at home that the people who support us through thick and thin."
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Jos Buttler Post Match Press Conference After AUS vs ENG Match World Cup 2023
[Reporter:]
Inaudible
[Jos Butler:]
Pride and guys wanting to get back to playing better cricket which we threatened today. We threatened but still not good enough.
[Reporter:]
You talked about and sort of Ben about seeing this game as a chance. I know you're mathematically out now, but you'd accepted that you were already and it was about regaining pride. Do you feel like you competed a bit harder? You got anywhere close to that?
[Jos Butler:]
Yeah, we did. Absolutely. We're still with areas to improve. I thought the bowling performance, taking early wickets, those two guys try and set the tone for Australia being very aggressive. So, to take those two wickets was crucial. We were in a really good spot. It was a frustrating partnership from Zampa and Stark. If we could have wrapped it up a bit quicker there. But yeah, look, we only lost by 30 and there's plenty of areas you can find those runs.
[Reporter:]
As you say the bowlers have stepped up a little bit in the last couple of games, are you at a loss to explain how such an experienced batting lineup as you've got and you've stuck with this same team sort of through a couple of tricky results and the tricky collapses are you at a loss to explain how that is not coming right and as a second part to that? How close have you come to plugging Harry Brook into that and let him go?
[Jos Butler:]
Yeah, absolutely and the guys who we were selecting have been top players for a long time and sort of, time kind of says that at some point they'll get back to you know being the best and you know so Johnny's dismissal today they're just the kind of things that just seem to keep happening and you don’t get that break. But yes, for sure I think my own form has been something that's probably the most frustrating thing. Obviously, I've had a pivotal position in the batting lineup, so to play as poorly as I have done has had a big effect on the team.
[Reporter:]
I guess after the result tonight, the game on Wednesday against the Dutch has a bit of added significance in terms of Champions Trophy qualification. How do you lift the guys for that one?
[Jos Butler:]
Yeah, absolutely by exactly that. You know, the Champions Trophy is a tournament we want to be involved in and if we're going to be involved in it, we need to win some games of cricket.
[Reporter:]
Jos looking at Malan's dismissal today, it proved to be quite against the run of play as well. He looked quite settled, the team looked quite comfortable at that stage. The way he got out and then immediately after that the way you got out did his dismissal sort of affect the way you were batting you think?
[Jos Butler:]
No not at all. The run rate is getting to a point where you have to try and score some runs and he obviously took an option on. I never criticise guys for being positive and trying to score runs.
Personally, I wanted to try and put some pressure back on the opposition. It was a mis-execution, the ball was in the right area to hit. And I didn't manage to play the shot correctly. So his dismissal had no effect on mine.
[Reporter:]
You've always kind of talked about the faith and the belief that you have in yourself and the players and your methods. When it has been such a long-running, repeated defeat, does that get shaken at all? Have you had that kind of belief shaken in yourself or your team?
[Jos Butler:]
I wouldn't say the belief shaken, more just the frustration grows and adds. Like I said, these are top quality players. I speak about myself more. I think the belief in my game is as high as it's ever been really, which means why there's so much frustration. Coming into the tournament I felt in fantastic form, as good a form as I've been in. So, to be sat here having had the tournament I've had is incredibly frustrating, but it doesn't shake your belief. If I stop believing in myself, I've got to make sure I'm the last one that does that. You guys will give up on me a lot earlier than I'll give up on myself.
[Reporter:]
Just on your batting, has it felt as though the captaincy has taken any kind of toll or is it something that's completely irrelevant to that and just a rhythm thing? Do you have any sort of, I suppose, diagnosis as to what's happened?
[Jos Butler:]
No I wouldn't say the captaincy. It's something I've enjoyed that responsibility in T20 cricket and ODI cricket before this tournament. I felt like it's brought out a lot of really good things in my batting. So, it's been frustrating I think I can't quite put a finger on why I'm not playing to the level I expected myself I've played a lot of cricket in India and played a lot of IPL cricket here so it's not as if I don't know the conditions or the grounds yes you know and as I say as a captain you want to lead from the front. So, of all the things that have happened on this trip, I'd say my own form has been my biggest frustration, because you want to lead from the front as a captain.
[Reporter:]
With that being a must-win game against the Netherlands you obviously want to put your best team out there with the best chance of winning at this point just with so many players not being able to be in form, does that best batting line-up for that game look increasingly like, including Harry Brook?
[Jos Butler:]
We can digest this game and we'll come up with what we think is the best team to win the next game.
[Reporter:]
How are you personally? How are you dealing with what I imagine must be a pretty tough time?
[Jos Butler:]
I'm having a great time, thanks. Yeah, frustrated, yeah, disappointed. Yeah, all of the above.
mominsaigol
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How come no one made a thread on this?
Regardless while Pakistan is a hot topic, The biggest disappointment this world cup is easily England.
We all expected Nedthelrands, Bangladesh and even Sri Lanka to never make it, but before this world cup 80% of people not just on Pakpassion but across the whole world, all cricket lovers predicted England to either win or atleast reach the semi finals.
Everything was going great, former defending champions as well as 2022 t20 wc winners, and the highlight being giving India the most humiliating phanti out their.
And yet
In this cup, they've been pathetic, losing to minnows left and right and minus them beating the weakest team of the tournament they've looked completly off color. You know things are bad when their tailenders were batting better against Australia then their front line batters.
So what happened? How did this team who in the previous world cup bazzballed every team and minus a few upsets and occasional close games, dominated and humiliated teams on most occasions go from that to looking like a side that would currently even struggle against Sides like Nepal?
Regardless while Pakistan is a hot topic, The biggest disappointment this world cup is easily England.
We all expected Nedthelrands, Bangladesh and even Sri Lanka to never make it, but before this world cup 80% of people not just on Pakpassion but across the whole world, all cricket lovers predicted England to either win or atleast reach the semi finals.
Everything was going great, former defending champions as well as 2022 t20 wc winners, and the highlight being giving India the most humiliating phanti out their.
And yet
In this cup, they've been pathetic, losing to minnows left and right and minus them beating the weakest team of the tournament they've looked completly off color. You know things are bad when their tailenders were batting better against Australia then their front line batters.
So what happened? How did this team who in the previous world cup bazzballed every team and minus a few upsets and occasional close games, dominated and humiliated teams on most occasions go from that to looking like a side that would currently even struggle against Sides like Nepal?
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Probably just one step to far for this bunch. Theyve had a decent run and it was going to end at some point.
Englands ODI strategy was to try and BATDEEP at the expense of picking quality bowlers. It worked for a long time but now everyone has started hitting its no longer as effective.
In this world cup I don't think they have really read conditions well and have been quite gung ho at times.
It will be interesting to see if Buttler remains at the helm for the T20 WC
Englands ODI strategy was to try and BATDEEP at the expense of picking quality bowlers. It worked for a long time but now everyone has started hitting its no longer as effective.
In this world cup I don't think they have really read conditions well and have been quite gung ho at times.
It will be interesting to see if Buttler remains at the helm for the T20 WC
mominsaigol
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I don't think their philosophy is to bat deep. I think their philosophy is to attack like crazy all the way up till 11th.
Batting deep implies, taking things deep into the innings classic 1990 style which tends to work of a collapse happens and a recovery process starts.
It's just this bazzball philosophy crumbled apart, they have no strategy on recovery or slowing down. You can't just bash every ball especially if some are good deliveries
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BATDEEP is different to taking the game deep. They stack their team with batters from 1 to 11.
And their approach to ODI cricket started long before Bazball. Baz has zero to do with LOIs.
Kriketer
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How the mighty have fallen. Where are the usual crowd (we know who he is) who kept going at Pakistan for England sending their C or D team to Pakistan and how they/he kept claiming England A would have whitewashed Pakistan in T20 series just because they were considered the best limited over team and Pakistan is a nothing team according to him.
Haven't seen him around after Fakhar playing one of the best chasing knocks in ODI cricket
Haven't seen him around after Fakhar playing one of the best chasing knocks in ODI cricket
mominsaigol
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Okay
BunnyRabbit
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Their 2015 rejuvenation was built around having batters going after the ball from the word go. Roy, Hales and Bairstow were the three architects who carried the baton very well. In this world cup, with Roy's career winding down and thin form, they decided to include a middle order batter (Brook) for an opener's spot. So they ended up having without an additional opener. Malan like we all know is a slow starter. He doesn't go after the ball till his 30-35th delivery. So starting the match with 6+rpo was only going to happen depending on Bairstow's runs. Bairstow was pretty disappointing throughout. He never really took on the bowlers like he used to, even when he scored a fifty. They should have looked at getting a backup opener someone like Billings, Duckett, Vince, Jacks etc in the squad. Their whole mantra of eating the opponents before getting eaten up blew up here due to their poor selections and lack of awareness.
There's a lot of pressure of Buttler and Mott and rightly so. But Buttler despite having a wt20 to his name has never felt like a leader.
There's a lot of pressure of Buttler and Mott and rightly so. But Buttler despite having a wt20 to his name has never felt like a leader.
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They had more than enough talent in their team to retain the title but unfortunately they failed to deliver in the big games. Stokes injury also didn't help as we saw how well he has performed in the last couple of games. Having said that, they still have something to play as Champions Trophy 2025 place is up for grab and today's win against Netherlands have put them in a great position to secure their qualification for this big event.
Technics 1210
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There is a very good article in the Daily Telegraph that actually pin points England’s abject failure in this world cup to their kit! Apparently England’s kit was the worst, in that it trapped heat/humidity rather than expel it!
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Cricket World Cup 2023: England a 'sinking ship' and need to 'take responsibility', says Eoin Morgan
England are a "sinking ship" and players need to "take responsibility" for a poor World Cup, says former captain Eoin Morgan.
The holders, who faced the Netherlands on Wednesday, cannot make the semi-finals after six losses in seven games.
Before the Netherlands match in Pune, assistant coach Carl Hopkinson spoke to the media - a role usually taken by the captain, coach or a senior player.
"I was very surprised and shocked by it," Morgan told Sky Sports.
"Bear in mind the thought process that goes behind it, you sit in meetings as a leader, a captain or a head coach.
"You make those decisions in the side. When things are going wrong, you need absolute clarity and direction.
"You have to front up."
England have struggled throughout their time in India, with their only victory coming against Bangladesh in their second game.
Defeat by Australia on Saturday mathematically ended the defence of the title won in 2019 when Morgan was captain.
Morgan retired last year, leaving Jos Buttler to take over as captain under coach Matthew Mott.
"At the moment, it's a sinking ship and you need people to take responsibility," said Morgan.
Morgan implemented an aggressive approach following England's early exit at the 2015 World Cup.
That was built on attacking with the bat - they broke the record for the highest one-day international total three times under him - but in India they have been bowled out in their past five matches.
"The message has to be clear and concise, and it has to be aggressive because naturally every player in the side, bar maybe Joe Root, has a better aggressive game than a defensive game," said Morgan.
"You don't want to play against an England team that comes out all guns blazing."
BBC
England are a "sinking ship" and players need to "take responsibility" for a poor World Cup, says former captain Eoin Morgan.
The holders, who faced the Netherlands on Wednesday, cannot make the semi-finals after six losses in seven games.
Before the Netherlands match in Pune, assistant coach Carl Hopkinson spoke to the media - a role usually taken by the captain, coach or a senior player.
"I was very surprised and shocked by it," Morgan told Sky Sports.
"Bear in mind the thought process that goes behind it, you sit in meetings as a leader, a captain or a head coach.
"You make those decisions in the side. When things are going wrong, you need absolute clarity and direction.
"You have to front up."
England have struggled throughout their time in India, with their only victory coming against Bangladesh in their second game.
Defeat by Australia on Saturday mathematically ended the defence of the title won in 2019 when Morgan was captain.
Morgan retired last year, leaving Jos Buttler to take over as captain under coach Matthew Mott.
"At the moment, it's a sinking ship and you need people to take responsibility," said Morgan.
Morgan implemented an aggressive approach following England's early exit at the 2015 World Cup.
That was built on attacking with the bat - they broke the record for the highest one-day international total three times under him - but in India they have been bowled out in their past five matches.
"The message has to be clear and concise, and it has to be aggressive because naturally every player in the side, bar maybe Joe Root, has a better aggressive game than a defensive game," said Morgan.
"You don't want to play against an England team that comes out all guns blazing."
BBC
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Rob Key, the managing director of England men’s cricket has said that England overthought several key decisions during their disappointing World Cup defence in India.
In the Interview he further said:
“You look at the way that the last couple of games we played, if we won the toss, we had a bat,”
“We didn’t know that at the start. We weren’t married to a way of what was our best way to go about things and that was due at times to a lot of overthinking. We almost probably felt like we’ve got a good understanding of things here, when the dew comes down and then it actually becomes easier to bat."
“But that wasn’t the case if you didn’t get through to the dew, if you were six or seven down by that time. So I think we underestimated how tough it was going to be in those conditions and we got a lot wrong. When you get to somewhere like Mumbai, and it all seems so simple now, you’re worried about dew and all of this stuff."
“I hold myself accountable for a lot of it really. I’ve set up a coaching team that had no local experience, really. Actually someone who knows these conditions really well says ‘By the way, it’s hotter than the sun out there; make sure you have a bat’. We got so caught up in what was going to happen five or six hours down the line.”
Wisden
In the Interview he further said:
“You look at the way that the last couple of games we played, if we won the toss, we had a bat,”
“We didn’t know that at the start. We weren’t married to a way of what was our best way to go about things and that was due at times to a lot of overthinking. We almost probably felt like we’ve got a good understanding of things here, when the dew comes down and then it actually becomes easier to bat."
“But that wasn’t the case if you didn’t get through to the dew, if you were six or seven down by that time. So I think we underestimated how tough it was going to be in those conditions and we got a lot wrong. When you get to somewhere like Mumbai, and it all seems so simple now, you’re worried about dew and all of this stuff."
“I hold myself accountable for a lot of it really. I’ve set up a coaching team that had no local experience, really. Actually someone who knows these conditions really well says ‘By the way, it’s hotter than the sun out there; make sure you have a bat’. We got so caught up in what was going to happen five or six hours down the line.”
Wisden
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