Can Ravichandran Ashwin be one of the indian greats?

[SLcric123]

He avgs 25 with the ball and 33 with the bat and already has 5 MOS in his bag.

Can he join likes of Kapil Dev, Pollock and Botham as a bowling All-Rounder?

 

[troodon]

Ashwin is no Chris Woakes.

To me he is a bowler who can bat a bit. Not a genuine all rounder. He can make a wonderful night watchman. Does not throw his wicket away easily.

 

[yasir_shah_fan]

I think he can join Kallis and Pollock but certainly not in the mould of Kapil Dev, Botham, Imran Khan and etc

 

[SLcric123]

Ashwin is no Chris Woakes.

To me he is a bowler who can bat a bit. Not a genuine all rounder. He can make a wonderful night watchman. Does not throw his wicket away easily.

Ashwin has got three 100s already albeit vs WI but he has been a very decent batsmen and can make a claim as a bowling AR.

 

[Ab Fan]

I think he can join Kallis and Pollock but certainly not in the mould of Kapil Dev, Botham, Imran Khan and etc

Kallis is definitely up there with Kapil or Botham even if we are harsh with him. He is an ATG test batsmen and is a good fifth bowler. Kallis stats are like matchable to Sobers although I do agree he is nowhere that good. Pollock can be mentioned below Kallis/ Kapil/ Botham as he was mostly a no.8 batsmen.

 

[Ab Fan]

Ashwin is no Chris Woakes.

To me he is a bowler who can bat a bit. Not a genuine all rounder. He can make a wonderful night watchman. Does not throw his wicket away easily.

No way is he a night watchman. He doesn't score fast but he can play clutch knocks. Night watchmen are those who mostly avg in mid 20s and have 1-2 century over their career.Ashwin is as good as Ali or Woakes as a batsmen.

 

[The_Odd_One]

He is a Wasim Akram type all-rounder who will end up as one of the great bowlers who could also score runs sometimes.

 

[endymion248]

Kallis is definitely up there with Kapil or Botham even if we are harsh with him. He is an ATG test batsmen and is a good fifth bowler. Kallis stats are like matchable to Sobers although I do agree he is nowhere that good. Pollock can be mentioned below Kallis/ Kapil/ Botham as he was mostly a no.8 batsmen.

Pollock is below Kapil and Botham?

You have an obvious bias for batting all-rounder, Pollock was a much better bowler than Kapil and Botham.

 

[Suleiman]

Ashwin is no Chris Woakes.

To me he is a bowler who can bat a bit. Not a genuine all rounder. He can make a wonderful night watchman. Does not throw his wicket away easily.

He's more than a nighty.

He's like a slightly better Robin Peterson.

 

[The_Odd_One]

Pollock is below Kapil and Botham?

You have an obvious bias for batting all-rounder, Pollock was a much better bowler than Kapil and Botham.

I think Pollock averages in low 20s against every team barring Australia. That is a phenomenal record as a bowler alone.

 

[Ab Fan]

Pollock is below Kapil and Botham?

You have an obvious bias for batting all-rounder, Pollock was a much better bowler than Kapil and Botham.

Pollock is a better bowler than Kapil/ Botham. Never denied that but the latter two are better ARs than Pollock as they are better batter than Pollock who was at max a no.8 batsmen.

 

[endymion248]

Pollock is a better bowler than Kapil/ Botham. Never denied that but the latter two are better ARs than Pollock as they are better batter than Pollock who was at max a no.8 batsmen.

So just because he batted at 8, that disqualifies him as an all-rounder? What do you think about Woakes' batting position then? Pollock averaged 32 as a test batsman, which is about the same as Kapil Dev, while averaging in the low 20s as a bowler. He is definitely up there, if not better in test cricket.

 

[Ab Fan]

So just because he batted at 8, that disqualifies him as an all-rounder? What do you think about Woakes' batting position then? Pollock averaged 32 as a test batsman, which is about the same as Kapil Dev, while averaging in the low 20s as a bowler. He is definitely up there, if not better in test cricket.

Kapil was a much better batsmen than Pollock. Ask anyone out there. Kapil has 7-8 100s I guess and most ( especially older posters )consider his batting very highly while Pollock had just 2 centuries and lacked much impact with bat.

 

[Ab Fan]

So just because he batted at 8, that disqualifies him as an all-rounder? What do you think about Woakes' batting position then? Pollock averaged 32 as a test batsman, which is about the same as Kapil Dev, while averaging in the low 20s as a bowler. He is definitely up there, if not better in test cricket.

Anyways, Pollock is certainly an ATG all-rounder. I didn't denied that although Kapil/ Botham are slightly better. Woakes and Ashwin qualify as bowling AR too.

 

[endymion248]

Kapil was a much better batsmen than Pollock. Ask anyone out there. Kapil has 7-8 100s I guess and most ( especially older posters )consider his batting very highly while Pollock had just 2 centuries and lacked much impact with bat.

If two players have the same batting average and one has lots of centuries, it just means he also has lots more low scores. Pollock was a bowling all-rounder in a strong line-up, there was no need for him to score centuries. He has 4000 runs and 19 half-centuries at an average of 32, scoring 20-30 runs almost every match, which is all you need from your number 8 batsman.

 

[Buffet]

He is surely not a night watchman. If he is a nightwatchman then standard of batsmen has to be extremely high and there are not many good batsmen around in the world. If I recall it, he saved one match in Aus with his batting.

Based on what I have seen, Ashwin is comfortable against all kinds of bowling, but looks lazy at times. I think Kohli pushing him up to bat will help him. He can surely bat at 6 and he will take his batting seriously.

He may or may not end up as a gun all rounder, but he surely has potential.

 

[Ab Fan]

If two players have the same batting average and one has lots of centuries, it just means he also has lots more low scores. Pollock was a bowling all-rounder in a strong line-up, there was no need for him to score centuries. He has 4000 runs and 19 half-centuries at an average of 32, scoring 20-30 runs almost every match, which is all you need from your number 8 batsman.

Yes he did all it was needed from a no.8 batter but Kapil was a better batsmen and had more impact with bat and had the ability to turn games even with his batting which Pollock couldn't.

If we go with stats alone then Kallis will be as good as Zaheer as bowler which is absurd.

Kapil is one of the most underrated player here.He was much better than his stats.You don't call him ATG unnecessarily.

 

[endymion248]

Yes he did all it was needed from a no.8 batter but Kapil was a better batsmen and had more impact with bat and had the ability to turn games even with his batting which Pollock couldn't.

If we go with stats alone then Kallis will be as good as Zaheer as bowler which is absurd.

Kapil is one of the most underrated player here.He was much better than his stats.You don't call him ATG unnecessarily.

Kapil has bad stats because he was very inconsistent in tests, both in batting and bowling. Having lots of centuries, lots of 5-fers, MOTMs etc, what you call ''impact'', yet poor stats, just shows underlying issues.
As for Kapil's ATG status, that comes from his captaincy and ODIs heroics. Your comparison was in tests strictly.

 

[Hawkeye]

Can't become something in the future that you already are.

Poor question.

 

[Ab Fan]

Kapil has bad stats because he was very inconsistent in tests, both in batting and bowling. Having lots of centuries, lots of 5-fers, MOTMs etc, what you call ''impact'', yet poor stats, just shows underlying issues.
As for Kapil's ATG status, that comes from his captaincy and ODIs heroics. Your comparison was in tests strictly.

Whatever makes you happy. I would agree to disagree and even it was me arguing with other posters on kallis getting rated lower than kapil or botham.

 

[Ab Fan]

On topic,Ashwin is as good a batsmen as someone like Moen Ali is and the one who does better in future will get rated higher.

As a bowler,Ashwin is world class but has to improve his game outside Asia to be called an ATG bowler.

He is well on his way to become an ATG A/R if he goes this way and will join likes of Pollock or Kapil or Botham.

 

[Rayyman]

Sadly, yes he can.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Kapil was a much better batsmen than Pollock. Ask anyone out there. Kapil has 7-8 100s I guess and most ( especially older posters )consider his batting very highly while Pollock had just 2 centuries and lacked much impact with bat.

Kapil Dev was the number one ranked ODI AR thorough out the 80s.Almost 10 years striaght.

 

[Stark]

Sure has the potential.

Sadly, yes he can.

 

[#GreenRoars]

He has the potential, some times he looks better than his team top order batsmen

But i won't say an ATG stuff.

 

[Xeeebon]

He could be 2nd tier ATG....NOT 1st tier ATG..

 

[HateKiller]

Ashwin has played many match saving innings for India - so he is a capable batsman. Test batting average of 33 is no mean feat and is sufficient for him to be called an allrounder.
He already has close to 1500 runs and close to 200 wkts.
He can achieve 3000 runs and 300 wickets - it is well within his grasp. How many players have been able to achieve this feat - you can count them on fingers.

 

[Swaraj!!]

I think he is a fair weather batsman. Can i expect a 175* at run a ball at 7 down from him? As of now....definite no.

Hence, not going to rate him with the Kapils and Bothams.

Bowling wise, already an ATG for us Indians [emoji14] . He just has to convince the rest of the world by taking wickets outside the subcontinent.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Tapatalk

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Ashwin's batting average dropped from 40 to 33 because of his indiscipline. He says he has been working on his batting and not trying to play too many strokes...so let's see.

Over the last year, his batting doesn't give me a solid pukka batsman's vibe. But his last 100 against WI was a disciplined effort so let's see.

And I don't think he is a fair weather batsman.

Its the opposite.

His average isn't high because he almost NEVER scores when team is in a good position or on top. And I don't mean this in a good way. Sometimes batsmen need to pile on.

Every single one of his 50+ and 100+ innings came when team was in dire position. But when he walks in at 400-6 or 500-6....flop is almost guaranteed.

Anyways, he is so far behind the likes of Botham (who in his peak was a brutal batsman and supreme strike bowler at the same time) or Kapil. Kallis is just next to next league. Haha.

Long way to go.

 

[street cricketer]

He can become an ATG bowling all rounder for Indian cricket. World wise, he has a long way to go.

He is a good batsman and pretty good technique. He started playing cricket as an opening batsman for TN iirc. Funnily enough, I would trust him to score more runs on seaming wickets than a few top order batsmen like Dhawan, Rohit, etc. However he gives a lazy vibe while batting (unlike his bowling) and also needs to improve his running. He should stop eating too much thayir sadham before the match and should eat more energy rich foods and should concentrate on his batting a bit more to take it to the next level. His batting is of prime significance to the balance of our team when we play with 5 genuine bowlers overseas.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

Ashwin's batting average dropped from 40 to 33 because of his indiscipline. He says he has been working on his batting and not trying to play too many strokes...so let's see.

Over the last year, his batting doesn't give me a solid pukka batsman's vibe. But his last 100 against WI was a disciplined effort so let's see.

And I don't think he is a fair weather batsman.

Its the opposite.

His average isn't high because he almost NEVER scores when team is in a good position or on top. And I don't mean this in a good way. Sometimes batsmen need to pile on.

Every single one of his 50+ and 100+ innings came when team was in dire position. But when he walks in at 400-6 or 500-6....flop is almost guaranteed.

Anyways, he is so far behind the likes of Botham (who in his peak was a brutal batsman and supreme strike bowler at the same time) or Kapil. Kallis is just next to next league. Haha.

Long way to go.

Lol I also noticed the same .

 

[hur rizvi]

He can become an ATG bowling all rounder for Indian cricket. World wise, he has a long way to go.

He is a good batsman and pretty good technique. He started playing cricket as an opening batsman for TN iirc. Funnily enough, I would trust him to score more runs on seaming wickets than a few top order batsmen like Dhawan, Rohit, etc. However he gives a lazy vibe while batting (unlike his bowling) and also needs to improve his running. He should stop eating too much thayir sadham before the match and should eat more energy rich foods and should concentrate on his batting a bit more to take it to the next level. His batting is of prime significance to the balance of our team when we play with 5 genuine bowlers overseas.

Isnt he already there India wise?

 

[street cricketer]

Isnt he already there India wise?

Yes, I think so.

Would like him to score 1 or 2 centuries against other sides as well.

 

[SLcric123]

I actually meant from India. I hope mods correct it.Since I have mentioned the likes of Pollock, Botham or Kapil then obviously it means we are talking globally.

 

[hur rizvi]

Yes, I think so.

Would like him to score 1 or 2 centuries against other sides as well.

Yes I cant think any better test ARs from India than Kapil Dev when comparing to Ashwin

 

[SLcric123]

He could be 2nd tier ATG....NOT 1st tier ATG..

Who all belong to 2nd tier and 1st tier ATG?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I don't care as much about him becoming ATG allrounder as much as him becoming an ATG bowler.

Let's see how his career pans out.

 

[SLcric123]

Yes I cant think any better test ARs from India than Kapil Dev when comparing to Ashwin

Yes he is the next best after Kapil to have come from India. A total of 6-7 100s with 30 avg should be enough to categorise him as one of the great all rounders of the game.

 

[SLcric123]

^will be enough..

 

[SLcric123]

I don't care as much about him becoming ATG allrounder as much as him becoming an ATG bowler.

Let's see how his career pans out.

His record outside Asia is pretty poor especially excluding WI.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

His record outside Asia is pretty poor especially excluding WI.

True....

But that's due to 6 tests played in Aus mainly.

Overseas...he has played only in 3 countries...and 2 innings in SA and Eng and only 1 proper innings in each of Eng and SA. The other two were just some overs.

You remember, at one point, people said he can only bash almost minnows at home like WI.

Today, his 2nd worst home record is against WI (first being England). His record against SA, NZ and Aus at home are way better.

I am watching his bowling and if he keeps his rhythm (which he didn't in the last innings ), he is gonna surprise a lot of people.

He has pretty much all the weapons in his arsenal these days. Improved his flight a lot since the SA series but again...has to become consistent with it and not lose rhythm.

Stats are just a final result of a lot of action taking place beforehand.

 

[IAJ]

What are his bowling stats in Eng, NZ, SA and Aus? Thanks in advance.

 

[Tusker]

True....

But that's due to 6 tests played in Aus mainly.

Overseas...he has played only in 3 countries...and 2 innings in SA and Eng and only 1 proper innings in each of Eng and SA. The other two were just some overs.

You remember, at one point, people said he can only bash almost minnows at home like WI.

Today, his 2nd worst home record is against WI (first being England). His record against SA, NZ and Aus at home are way better.

I am watching his bowling and if he keeps his rhythm (which he didn't in the last innings ), he is gonna surprise a lot of people.

He has pretty much all the weapons in his arsenal these days. Improved his flight a lot since the SA series but again...has to become consistent with it and not lose rhythm.

Stats are just a final result of a lot of action taking place beforehand.

If he doesn't start to melt that fat in his mid-riff he wont last for much long ... he is already 30 BTW.

 

[ShoonyaSifar]

Should end his career with 450+ Test wickets @27-28 with 35 odd 5-ers and 4000+ runs@36--37 with 7-8 Test 100s. As he plays more tests, somehow I feel his batting will continue to evolve and get better while bowling prowess will start to go down after another 3-4 years.

 

[endymion248]

Who all belong to 2nd tier and 1st tier ATG?

(tests)

1st tier: Sobers, Imran, Kallis

2nd tier: Botham, Kapil, Pollock

3rd tier: Hadlee, Flintoff, Vettori

 

[cricketAXEpert]

I think he can join Kallis and Pollock but certainly not in the mould of Kapil Dev, Botham, Imran Khan and etc

Kallis was better than Kapil...

 

[The_Odd_One]

Ashwin is a match-winner, will be the first player on my team in both tests and ODIs. A full time spinner who can bat is gold for any team.

However, I would be a bit reluctant to play him at #6 or #7. I think he is the best #8 right now.

 

[street cricketer]

(tests)

1st tier: Sobers, Imran, Kallis

2nd tier: Botham, Kapil, Pollock

3rd tier: Hadlee, Flintoff, Vettori

Hadlee at third tier?

 

[Ind_Yeah]

I know its PP and Kapil will get no love here. But people who didnt watch cricket in the mid-80s will obviously under-rate his quality based on stats. What is missed is that when a good bowler plays for a weak team, his numbers will suffer - he will get over-bowled because the team will turn to him more often than not, not just for breakthroughs but also for damage control. Its always affects a good player's personal numbers when you are on a bad team, but it is orders of magnitude worse for a bowler. For a batsman, it might even bump you at times since you get maximum opportunity to score, even though you don't always get the best situations.

Kapil the batsman would have been more popular than Afridi if he was Pakistani. He was Afridi-with-brains, but had his Afridiesque moments. Gavaskar memorably dropped him once because he got out going for a 6 in a test match when the team needed him to stay there.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

There are no spin bowling ATG's apart from Warne and Murali .So no.

 

[Prince_]

No he's a bowler who can bat a bit. In front of a good bowling attack he's a walking wicket. Should concentrate solely on his bowling.

 

[geraltofrivia]

No he's a bowler who can bat a bit. In front of a good bowling attack he's a walking wicket. Should concentrate solely on his bowling.

???

Has put in some tough knocks. Mumbai 2012. Kolkata 2012. Sydney 2015. Sydney 2012.

 

[Prince_]

???

Has put in some tough knocks. Mumbai 2012. Kolkata 2012. Sydney 2015. Sydney 2012.

Anderson, broad or even Gillespie in the past had also shown their abilities with the bat under difficult circumstances. It doesn't necessarily mean they r allrounders too.

 

[giri26]

Anderson, broad or even Gillespie in the past had also shown their abilities with the bat under difficult circumstances. It doesn't necessarily mean they r allrounders too.

None of the players you mention average 33. He scored runs in England and Australia and now in West Indies. He also batted beautifully against England in 2012 when all the other India batsmen were folding.

 

[Dr_Bassim]

There is a habit in which such threads rapidly switch to whether Kapil (insert any Indian Player here) was as good as Kallis, Pollock or someone else when the thread is more about Ashwin.

If it was a Pakistani player, the thread would have switched to Sachin and how he was a choker.

Don't know why it happens.

 

[sshakir411]

Ashwin should focus on being a bowler who can bat. We all remember what happened last time India tried turning a bowler in to an all rounder...

 

[Ab Fan]

Ashwin should focus on being a bowler who can bat. We all remember what happened last time India tried turning a bowler in to an all rounder...

That was a fast bowler.India has a good history of producing good spinners not pacers though.

 

[Ab Fan]

Quality knock from Ashwin. He is very good in defence.

 

[jusarrived]

Ashwin is no Chris Woakes.

To me he is a bowler who can bat a bit. Not a genuine all rounder. He can make a wonderful night watchman. Does not throw his wicket away easily.

lol what ? Ashwin is a better bat than Woakes

 

[jusarrived]

Anderson, broad or even Gillespie in the past had also shown their abilities with the bat under difficult circumstances. It doesn't necessarily mean they r allrounders too.

you dont see a difference in batting abilities of Ashwin and the likes of Anderson ?

 

[Ind_Yeah]

lol what ? Ashwin is a better bat than Woakes

Sssh. Don't disturb the blind ones with reality....

 

[Sandeep]

Ashwin can play a good second fiddle to established batsmen like Kohli, Rahane but I feel he still doesn't have skills to steer the ship on his own. He can be a useful number 7 batsman for India and that's about it..

 

[HitWicket]

lol what ? Ashwin is a better bat than Woakes

Gotta disagree with you there. Woakes I could see as a regular number 6 in most test teams whilst I'd consider Ashwin a number 7 in most.

 

[sshakir411]

That was a fast bowler.India has a good history of producing good spinners not pacers though.

I still don't get why there is a need to turn your ace/primary spinner in to an all rounder. India already has batting depth...

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

[MENTION=1697]jusarrived[/MENTION] - I get the feeling he picks pacers early but not spinners.

While his defense against Roston Chase is solid, the shot is coming off late.

When it turns big, won't he be in trouble with the ball taking the edge before he can react?

Was he like this in 2012 series against Eng where he scored against spinners?

 

[Ab Fan]

I still don't get why there is a need to turn your ace/primary spinner in to an all rounder. India already has batting depth...

because bowlers can't take 20 wickets.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

The Woakes who played in the recent Pak series looked more solid to me.

 

[Prince_]

Why is Ashwin still in the middle? How the hell has he survived till now huh? He's a bowler who can bat a bit but that's it. He's nothing special


He should have been out by now. This is mind boggling stuff from Ashwin. Something isn't right here, something really isn't right

 

[Prince_]

Sssh. Don't disturb the blind ones with reality....

Huh, wokes and stokes both of them r 10 times better allrounders than Ashwin.

 

[Square Drive]

Was out caught, but it was off a no-ball.

Expect him to score big now.

 

[Justcrazy]

He is currently batting on 46 no , looks like he will get another fifty here.

Definite potential with the bat.

Ashwin will go a long way.

 

[jusarrived]

[MENTION=1697]jusarrived[/MENTION] - I get the feeling he picks pacers early but not spinners.

While his defense against Roston Chase is solid, the shot is coming off late.

When it turns big, won't he be in trouble with the ball taking the edge before he can react?

Was he like this in 2012 series against Eng where he scored against spinners?

Playing spin is surely not is strength its never been , he approaches slow bowlers like Rohit Sharma . I dont think its a technical issue , rather a lazy approach . Ashwin can average ~40-45 if he takes his game seriously , when he does that he does not struggle against spin or pace . Batting at no6 , there is an additional responsibility which actually may work in his favour . I have always wanted to see him in Top6 , he belongs there .

 

[jusarrived]

Gotta disagree with you there. Woakes I could see as a regular number 6 in most test teams whilst I'd consider Ashwin a number 7 in most.

I would like to see Woakes bat outside England .No way hes a test class batsmen , a better striker of the ball , may be ( again I dont think he hits it clean either )

 

[Ab Fan]

Ashwin's prime deal is bowling and that shouldn't go down. I want him to do well outside Asia with ball. As a batsmen I'll take his avg of 35. Clearly all set to be one of great ARs of the game.

 

[HitWicket]

I would like to see Woakes bat outside England .No way hes a test class batsmen , a better striker of the ball , may be ( again I dont think he hits it clean either )

Have you watched him? If anything I'd be saying the near opposite, someone with with a very solid and tecnically correct technique who may struggle to play a very quick innings with some power hitting if need be. Looked surprisingly comfortable with facing Yasir even when others were struggling with him in the first test.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Playing spin is surely not is strength its never been , he approaches slow bowlers like Rohit Sharma . I dont think its a technical issue , rather a lazy approach . Ashwin can average ~40-45 if he takes his game seriously , when he does that he does not struggle against spin or pace . Batting at no6 , there is an additional responsibility which actually may work in his favour . I have always wanted to see him in Top6 , he belongs there .

I see....

The issue with his current approach is that he is quite late on his shot that if it spins, he won't have time to react. That's what I kept seeing in the SA series. In 2012, I saw a more sublime Ashwin against far superior spinners in Swann and Panesar in dangerous pitches.

Also against pacers, I feel he is very vulnerable nicking it if they seam it around. Once he settles down, he gets better and better but the first 20-30 balls seem dangerous. You only need to make 1 mistake to get out.

Would be nice if he could score well but let's see.

Also as you said, the added responsibility at No 6 means he can't play stupid shots and have fun...but instead has to dig deep and bat properly.

 

[giri26]

It is funny that people here are saying Ashwin is as good as tailender. Ashwin has always been a batsman, he started as a opener and later became a spinner. India does not have to turn him into an all-rounder, he already is. Batting comes naturally to him, so there is no requirement to alter something with his technique. Another wonderful innings by him and saved India from embarrassment. Ashwin will always average above 30 with the bat, where ever he bats.

 

[Tusker]

There are no spin bowling ATG's apart from Warne and Murali .So no.

Vettori ?

 

[MMHS]

He is already there. These days, there are lot more matches, therefore as it looks Ash is playing for just few years. But, Vinnu Mankad played 44 (or 43) Tests in almost 20 years, and their stats are comparable - so you know.

Only issue is, Ash has to improve his away bowling figures significantly, otherwise statistically he'll be one of the best ever (like Vinod Kambly), but won't get the respect from his peers. He has to make the 2018 English & AUS tour count, because he'll be 32+ by then, might not be at his best for the next series.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Vettori ?

How is he an ATG? My only criterion is performance in tests and Vettori was very poor in that format. Only Warne and Murali qualify for the ATG tag among spinners unless you go back to the likes of Underwood and Laker etc. who played on completely different wickets.