China-India standoff and border tension

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

No they occupied land that India claims , beat the Indian soldiers to death and now after talks India won't be patrolling upto pt14 like they did previously .

In essence India has agreed to the Chinese claim over the whole Galwan valley If you can;t see that than God help you guys .

This reminds me of the fratricide episode from last year when everyone was in denial iniitially.

India will suffer enormously at the hands of China if this ostrich mentality continues

Don't blame them. They are regular viewers of Times Now and Republic TV. According to them we have killed 43 chinese soldiers just like we killled 350 terrorists last year.

 

[Rajdeep]

Don't blame them. They are regular viewers of Times Now and Republic TV. According to them we have killed 43 chinese soldiers just like we killled 350 terrorists last year.

This is what DailyMail.CO.UK has to say:

China said it suffered 43 casualties, but did not specify whether any of its men had been killed in the grisly hand-to-hand combat fought with clubs and rocks in the Galwan Valley, Ladakh

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-mutilated-beaten-death-Chinese-soldiers.html

 

[ethan hunt]

Don't blame them. They are regular viewers of Times Now and Republic TV. According to them we have killed 43 chinese soldiers just like we killled 350 terrorists last year.

The same lot said all our pilots are accounted for until Abhinandan was paraded on Pakistani national tv .

The same lot said the fratricide was just a regular crash .

The same lot claimed until a few days ago that the Chinese had not moved into territory claimed by India and now they have apparently moved back from the territory they did not occupy according to these people and the liar in chief Mr Modi .

I am shocked these people are still running with planted stories from the likes of Times now when the writing is on the wall . It's shocking tbh.

 

[Romali_rotti]

As far as deaths are concerned, Chinese soldiers died too on 15th June clash but their communist govt is embarrassed to accept it.

I am seeing a very common trend here, the Pseudo Secular : and some Pakistanis seems to be not talking about the killed Chinese Soldiers and focusing exclusively on the Indian casualties...

 

[Abdullah719]

This is what DailyMail.CO.UK has to say:

China said it suffered 43 casualties, but did not specify whether any of its men had been killed in the grisly hand-to-hand combat fought with clubs and rocks in the Galwan Valley, Ladakh

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-mutilated-beaten-death-Chinese-soldiers.html

When did this happen? Pretty big news if China said that.

 

[Romali_rotti]

When did this happen? Pretty big news if China said that.

Come on Abdullah, it does not matter how many died, this thing of focusing just on Indian casualties is all about one side being butt hurt.. RIP to soldiers from both sides, laying down their lives for their country, at least India showed respect, dignity and recognition for their dead soldiers. While in China >>>> I can only imagine..

 

[Mesozoic]

Looks like a lot of people here don't know the meaning of disengagement

I don't have the time to lay it all out but I'll just give the bottom line...

Almighty China have retreated from PP 14 at Galwan valley. They'll soon be retreating from PP15 and PP17A too as an agreement of de-escalation. Yes , India have also agreed to fall back temporarily (for a month). After that, both IA and PLA will patrol upto PP14 as they used to before the latter's encroachment.

Disengagement is also going on at the pangong tso lake in the grey area (F4-F8) with the same guidelines most likely. All in all, status quo will be back in a month and India will keep constructing infra close to the LAC which will help putting an end to China's "salami slicing".

So, not much anyone can do except to shout "iNdIA sUrReNdErEd iTs tErRiTory", "sUrReNdEr mOdI hEhEhE" etc to sooth their egos.

 

[Romali_rotti]

So, not much anyone can do except to shout "iNdIA sUrReNdErEd iTs tErRiTory", "sUrReNdEr mOdI hEhEhE" etc to sooth their egos.

Yeah 'Surender Modi' is about to feel a lot of heat as the investigation has started on his papa Gandhi's organisation for taking money from the Chinese. :

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

This is what DailyMail.CO.UK has to say:

China said it suffered 43 casualties, but did not specify whether any of its men had been killed in the grisly hand-to-hand combat fought with clubs and rocks in the Galwan Valley, Ladakh

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-mutilated-beaten-death-Chinese-soldiers.html

Hain? China said it suffered 43 casualities but did not specify whether any of its men had been killed?

 

[ethan hunt]

Hain? China said it suffered 43 casualities but did not specify whether any of its men had been killed?

Lol . Suma up India under Modi .

 

[Rajdeep]

Hain? China said it suffered 43 casualities but did not specify whether any of its men had been killed?

You said these guys spreading fake news about 43 deaths by just listening to Times Now and Republic.

I gave you a source from British tabloid.

Stop hiding under memes.

Btw, read this:

China finally admits casualties in Galwan clash, claims ‘numbers not very high’

He Xiangqi, deputy director general of boundary and ocean affairs, said the reason for not revealing the casualty numbers is because Beijing does not want to stir up sentiments.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...-very-heavy/story-VmEzyJTihiOyqtLCBVXSXL.html

Now you will say, its hindustantimes....so you wont trust

If you truely believe a battle happened...20 Indian soldiers died but not a single casualty from Chinese side....I will leave you alone with your dreams.

Chinese soldiers casualty being debated many times in this thread and all types of proofs/sources being provided.

But its old news...bottomline is Chinese soldiers ran away vacating their post and Indian soldiers had the last laugh.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

You said these guys spreading fake news about 43 deaths by just listening to Times Now and Republic.

I gave you a source from British tabloid.

Stop hiding under memes.

Btw, read this:

China finally admits casualties in Galwan clash, claims ‘numbers not very high’

He Xiangqi, deputy director general of boundary and ocean affairs, said the reason for not revealing the casualty numbers is because Beijing does not want to stir up sentiments.

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...-very-heavy/story-VmEzyJTihiOyqtLCBVXSXL.html

Now you will say, its hindustantimes....so you wont trust

If you truely believe a battle happened...20 Indian soldiers died but not a single casualty from Chinese side....I will leave you alone with your dreams.

Chinese soldiers casualty being debated many times in this thread and all types of proofs/sources being provided.

But its old news...bottomline is Chinese soldiers ran away vacating their post and Indian soldiers had the last laugh.

Bhaijaan you said "China said it suffered 43 casualities but did not specify whether any of its men had been killed?". I was trying to understand the logic behind your contradictory statement.

 

[Robbie]

Bhaijaan you said "China said it suffered 43 casualities but did not specify whether any of its men had been killed?". I was trying to understand the logic behind your contradictory statement.

Killed in grisly hand to hand combat fought with clubs and rocks in Galwan valley ..
You got to read the full sentence.
They have mentioned that they have suffered casualties but how and where they have not specified.. if you want more info you can ask chinese Govt as it is for them to clear the air. Indian army has already provided the numbers of Indian army personnel and conditions when and how the casualties happened

 

[Rajdeep]

Bhaijaan you said "China said it suffered 43 casualities but did not specify whether any of its men had been killed?". I was trying to understand the logic behind your contradictory statement.

Think you need to work on your comprehension skills. That was not my statement but I quoted from Dailymail.co.uk. Have you even clicked on that link? Why dont you open that link and bother to have a read at the article?

You said only Times Now/Republic reporting 43 Chinese soldiers died. I provided you a link from British Tabloid saying the same. But now you are not opening the link and diverting from the topic.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Think you need to work on your comprehension skills. That was not my statement but I quoted from Dailymail.co.uk. Have you even clicked on that link? Why dont you open that link and bother to have a read at the article?

You said only Times Now/Republic reporting 43 Chinese soldiers died. I provided you a link from British Tabloid saying the same. But now you are not opening the link and diverting from the topic.

Are you dumb? How am I diverting the topic here when I am actually asking you to clarify what you wrote/quoted in your post?

 

[IAJ]

No they occupied land that India claims , beat the Indian soldiers to death and now after talks India won't be patrolling upto pt14 like they did previously .

In essence India has agreed to the Chinese claim over the whole Galwan valley If you can;t see that than God help you guys .

This reminds me of the fratricide episode from last year when everyone was in denial iniitially.

India will suffer enormously at the hands of China if this ostrich mentality continues

Lol these chamchays get their news only from Godi media like Republic TV, Times NOW and are celebrating as if they have won a war.

They think China got scared from them and ran away. China basically took two steps forward and one step back. And India even lost the territory which it claims belong to her and where it used to do patrolling. That area is now buffer zone where both will stay away.

So the net-result is India pushed back form it's previous place. India have been embarrased but only who follow neutral media will understand that. I can't believe people can be fooled by comedians like Arnab Goswami.

Half of their country is still saying it's India who lost here, so what a couple of chamchey here say means nothing really.

 

[Uzi]

Think you need to work on your comprehension skills. That was not my statement but I quoted from Dailymail.co.uk. Have you even clicked on that link? Why dont you open that link and bother to have a read at the article?

You said only Times Now/Republic reporting 43 Chinese soldiers died. I provided you a link from British Tabloid saying the same. But now you are not opening the link and diverting from the topic.

I don't think you know the reputation of The Daily Mail. It is known as The Daily Fail for a reason

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

I don't think you know the reputation of The Daily Mail. It is known as The Daily Fail for a reason

It seems he stopped reading that article after 'China said it suffered 43 casualities'.

 

[Mesozoic]

They think China got scared from them and ran away. China basically took two steps forward and one step back. And India even lost the territory which it claims belong to her and where it used to do patrolling. That area is now buffer zone where both will stay away.

I think this is the third time I'm asking you this. Please don't run away again and answer this. where did India "lose territory" ?

And you seem to have no clue that "patrolling" is done only in buffer zones. Not in the ones you control i.e ones that have permanent posts and camps. Patroling is done to stop the other side from building posts and other infra. The current withdrawal is temporary and both sides will patrol upto PP14 again after a month.

I know you're desperate but atleast try to backup your claims instead of just giving statements out of thin air to feel better.

 

[IAJ]

I think this is the third time I'm asking you this. Please don't run away again and answer this. where did India "lose territory" ?

And you seem to have no clue that "patrolling" is done only in buffer zones. Not in the ones you control i.e ones that have permanent posts and camps. Patroling is done to stop the other side from building posts and other infra. The current withdrawal is temporary and both sides will patrol upto PP14 again after a month.

I know you're desperate but atleast try to backup your claims instead of just giving statements out of thin air to feel better.

Lol, isn't the new agreement that the armies of both side will not enter the buffer zones and only new separate units a loa police force from both countries?

Re your question about where India lost her territory. You agree that India also withdrew right? So where did they withdraw from? It's China who came in to Indian's territory and when India goes back further, she has gone back from her own land, or what she claimed to be her.

You know what, before fighting with foreigners here, go and convince your own country men first lol.

 

[Rajdeep]

Lol these chamchays get their news only from Godi media like Republic TV, Times NOW and are celebrating as if they have won a war.

They think China got scared from them and ran away. China basically took two steps forward and one step back. And India even lost the territory which it claims belong to her and where it used to do patrolling. That area is now buffer zone where both will stay away.

So the net-result is India pushed back form it's previous place. India have been embarrased but only who follow neutral media will understand that. I can't believe people can be fooled by comedians like Arnab Goswami.

Half of their country is still saying it's India who lost here, so what a couple of chamchey here say means nothing really.

Can you pls share which neutral media claimed that India got embarrassed?

This is what express.co.uk is saying:

China pulls back from disputed border with India as Beijing ‘eyes new contested area’

CHINA has started to pull back troops from the contested border with India after a bitter stand-off and bloody clashes but there are fears Beijing is now plotting a second front at the remote border with Bhutan.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...st-news-border-clashes-troops-withdraw-bhutan

Also, how did you figure out half the country saying India lost? Which half? You have any source to back your claim?

You are talking about Arnab Goswami but you yourself shooting in open air like him. I would suggest back you claims with adeqauate proofs.

For now all sources and proofs suggesting Chinese soldiers ran away from the post and Indian soldiers had last laugh

 

[CRIC_FANtastic]

Lol, isn't the new agreement that the armies of both side will not enter the buffer zones and only new separate units a loa police force from both countries?

Re your question about where India lost her territory. You agree that India also withdrew right? So where did they withdraw from? It's China who came in to Indian's territory and when India goes back further, she has gone back from her own land, or what she claimed to be her.

You know what, before fighting with foreigners here, go and convince your own country men first lol.

This is what happens when you have zero understanding of a very complex geo-political issue. I don't claim to be an expert, but would like to believe that I know a bit more.

1. India and China has a buffer Zone since 1962 war. There are three border agreements from 1993, 1996 and 2013 for a working model for these buffer zones. For example, Pangong lake - upto finger 2 is claimed by India, and accepted by China. On the other side, upto finger 8 is Claimed by China and accepted by India. Territory between finger 2 and 8 are contested, and a buffer Zone since 1962. This is a practice, not from now but for few decades, that both Indian and Chinese Patrol go upto Finger 4 and then they come back. This time China has come to Finger 4 and built some structure. India objected and asked for 'status quo' before June 5th, which China has now agreed. You can see this as China coming to Indian territory, but I dont see that way. We can agree to disagree. Now both countries are moving back to Finger 2 and Finger 8, respectively.

2. Patrol by police or Para-military is not a new agreement. This agreement and arrangement is there since 1996. For India, patrol has been carried by ITBP (India Tibet Border Patrol) and for China is done by China Border Defense Regiment (Their Para-military). This status quo changed last month, after June 15th, and from both sides, their Army has started patrolling. Now, both countries are going back to pre-June arrangement, which was one of the demand by Indians, and it appears Chinese have agreed.

Dont try to kid yourself by saying India cannot win a War against China, or vice a versa. In this age, their can not be a decisive winner in a Full fledged war (especially when both countries are nuclear). Tell me, can you tell me a winner since Second World war - who won US-Vietnam war? Sino-Vietnam war 1979? Sino-Russia 1979? USA in Afghanistan? India-Pakistan 1965? Hell, recent Saudi-Syria war? Saudi thought they would trample Syria in a week but they are stuck there for 5 years and going.

Also, I know this is difficult to understand for you, but in a true democracy, you need not to convince 'everyone', there will always be some dis-tractors, and that is perfectly all-right. The next election will decided if Indians are convinced or not. Dont worry about us.

 

[Mesozoic]

Lol, isn't the new agreement that the armies of both side will not enter the buffer zones and only new separate units a loa police force from both countries?

Re your question about where India lost her territory. You agree that India also withdrew right? So where did they withdraw from? It's China who came in to Indian's territory and when India goes back further, she has gone back from her own land, or what she claimed to be her.

Oh dear. Please stop embarrassing yourselves.

India's closest forward position/post to patrol point 14 in the Galwan is approximately 2.5 Kms away from it.

Disengagement/De-escalation means that both sides should retreat back to their forward posts instead of being eye to eye with each other. The agreement is that the both sides will go back to their forward positions in a stepwise manner (a few Kms each time) instead of going back all at once. China have retreated back around 1.5-2 Kms from the flashpoint and India a bit less.

The methods and detail about patroling hasn't yet being decided. But that doesn't mean much. The "buffer zones" will be unmanned until that happens just like it was before China decided to encroach. And they'll be patrolled again (doesn't matter if it's done by IA or ITBP) after the agreed time period just like before.

Even after processing all this, if you or anyone still thinks India "lost territory" then nothing can be done except moving on.

 

[Firebat]

Pompeo says China took incredibly aggressive action in recent clash with India

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Wednesday accused China of taking “incredibly aggressive action” in a recent confrontation with India over a disputed section of the nuclear-armed neighbors’ border.

“The Chinese took incredibly aggressive action,” he told a State Department news conference, referring to the clash last month in the Galwan Valley. “The Indians have done their best to respond to that.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...tion-in-recent-clash-with-india-idUSKBN2492D7

 

[Rajdeep]

China took incredibly aggressive actions, India did best to respond: Mike Pompeo on LAC face-off

NEW DELHI: The United States on Wednesday said that China took "incredibly aggressive actions" in its recent clash with India in eastern Ladakh and New Delhi did its best to respond.

Speaking about the ongoing India-China border tensions, US secretary of state Mike Pompeo today said, "I have spoken with foreign minister S Jaishankar a number of times about this. The Chinese took incredibly aggressive actions and Indians have done their best to respond to that."

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/ch...-on-lac-face-off/amp_articleshow/76857464.cms

 

[Slog]

Indians really live in a make believe world of their own

 

[finalfantasy7]

China took incredibly aggressive actions, India did best to respond: Mike Pompeo on LAC face-off

NEW DELHI: The United States on Wednesday said that China took "incredibly aggressive actions" in its recent clash with India in eastern Ladakh and New Delhi did its best to respond.

Speaking about the ongoing India-China border tensions, US secretary of state Mike Pompeo today said, "I have spoken with foreign minister S Jaishankar a number of times about this. The Chinese took incredibly aggressive actions and Indians have done their best to respond to that."

https://m.timesofindia.com/india/ch...-on-lac-face-off/amp_articleshow/76857464.cms

so hes admitting that india got battered

 

[cricketjoshila]

Lol these chamchays get their news only from Godi media like Republic TV, Times NOW and are celebrating as if they have won a war.

They think China got scared from them and ran away. China basically took two steps forward and one step back. And India even lost the territory which it claims belong to her and where it used to do patrolling. That area is now buffer zone where both will stay away.

So the net-result is India pushed back form it's previous place. India have been embarrased but only who follow neutral media will understand that. I can't believe people can be fooled by comedians like Arnab Goswami.

Half of their country is still saying it's India who lost here, so what a couple of chamchey here say means nothing really.

Which territory was lost?

Most of the world is saying china disengaged and went back.

 

[cricketjoshila]

I don't think you know the reputation of The Daily Mail. It is known as The Daily Fail for a reason

U.S. intelligence sources suggest China suffered 43 casualties, including 35 deaths.

https://time.com/5854756/china-india-himalayas-galwan/?amp=true

 

[cricketjoshila]

Lol these chamchays get their news only from Godi media like Republic TV, Times NOW and are celebrating as if they have won a war.

They think China got scared from them and ran away. China basically took two steps forward and one step back. And India even lost the territory which it claims belong to her and where it used to do patrolling. That area is now buffer zone where both will stay away.

So the net-result is India pushed back form it's previous place. India have been embarrased but only who follow neutral media will understand that. I can't believe people can be fooled by comedians like Arnab Goswami.

Half of their country is still saying it's India who lost here, so what a couple of chamchey here say means nothing really.

Lol at a pakistani claiming what half of India says.

World is saying china disengaged, what pakistanis and Chinese chamchey say here means nothing really.

 

[cricketjoshila]

Indians really live in a make believe world of their own

Or we dont live in the world of chinese lackies. India successfully defended its territory.

 

[Waqar's inswinging yorker]

Think you need to work on your comprehension skills. That was not my statement but I quoted from Dailymail.co.uk. Have you even clicked on that link? Why dont you open that link and bother to have a read at the article?

You said only Times Now/Republic reporting 43 Chinese soldiers died. I provided you a link from British Tabloid saying the same. But now you are not opening the link and diverting from the topic.

LOL. Quoting the daily mail! Obviously, you're not from the UK are you? If you were, you would not tale any solace in quoting them!!!

 

[globalcitizen]

looks like this thread which started with so much potential for some has died horribly.
the dreams of China and Pakistan rounding up India on both sides, with Pakistan marching into IOK and China marching up to Delhi. the fantasy has taken a wrong turn for some.
As they be brave and fight your own battles.

 

[Vegitto1]

Fact: 20 Indian terrorist died. As a Pakistani everything else is irrelevant.

 

[Rana]

looks like this thread which started with so much potential for some has died horribly.
the dreams of China and Pakistan rounding up India on both sides, with Pakistan marching into IOK and China marching up to Delhi. the fantasy has taken a wrong turn for some.
As they be brave and fight your own battles.

But Indian soldiers died and they were avenged through the banning of Tik Tok in India

 

[CricketCartoons]

But Indian soldiers died and they were avenged through the banning of Tik Tok in India

Soldiers dying is fine if it achieves some purpose, and they are easily replaceable. If nothing else, at least their death gives you a chance to be victim and put the other side as aggressor.

Loss is when expensive equipment is damaged, as lots of money goes into procuring them, and this worries me.

 

[globalcitizen]

But Indian soldiers died and they were avenged through the banning of Tik Tok in India

Yes some countries are bound by law and they are responsible to each and every citizen of country. So they don’t hide facts.
Unlike some countries where it does not matter whether you lock up in their homes are left to die on a battle field.
Every country is within its own rights to do anything to safeguard security and sovereignty. TikTok has issues and globally will be dealt with, india is just a start.
China has targeted long time barley exporters and banned beef exports , just because Australia asked for a coronavirus investigation. CCP is childish on that level and thats some mega revenge avenge LoL

 

[Romali_rotti]

Fact: 20 Indian terrorist died. As a Pakistani everything else is irrelevant.

Fact: you knew 20 Indian soldiers died because India released the info, it shows honor. Unlike you Pakistanis that refused to accept your own soldiers dead bodies in Kargil and China being very vague about the loss of their soldiers..

InB4

The Pseudo Secular : comes in to make a dumb counter argument ..

 

[cricketjoshila]

looks like this thread which started with so much potential for some has died horribly.
the dreams of China and Pakistan rounding up India on both sides, with Pakistan marching into IOK and China marching up to Delhi. the fantasy has taken a wrong turn for some.
As they be brave and fight your own battles.

Modi ji has again broken so many hearts. He iz cho bad.

 

[Rajdeep]

But Indian soldiers died and they were avenged through the banning of Tik Tok in India

But we never got a chance to avenge anything bcoz Chinese army ran away leaving the battlefield just a day after Modi's visit to Laddak.

 

[raashidkhan89079]

All i can say is
Tensions are not over between india china

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

But we never got a chance to avenge anything bcoz Chinese army ran away leaving the battlefield just a day after Modi's visit to Laddak.

Really? Then how and when did we kill 43 chinese soldiers?

 

[the Great Khan]

You're so ill informed i don't even know where to start.

1. They had the road in their artillery range even before encroachment. I don't know how that matters. Unless you dream of them destroying the road using artillery.

they didnt have 200,000 troops in tibet before this crisis. they will now be building a proper environment and are already training. They have medical facilities set up, firing ranges, bases the lot.

2. Having a buffer zone doesn't mean you can't patrol. There has been an agreement that there will be no patrolling from both sides for a month. Not forever. Same with F4-F8, when de-escalation happens.

you have been forced beyond the Shyok. That's a 2 km buffer zone in your territory where previously you could patrol there you cant now. The Chinese have got what they wanted which is pushing you back to the lines of 1959. The 1993 peace and tranquillity agreement is dead. You've been pushed back from territory you thought was your own for 27 years.


3. Even if we assume that we had intentions of walking into GB, how did they "went up into smoke" ? You could have said that if we had stopped infra construction along the LAC, but sadly for you that didn't happen.

Youre fascist regime had delusions of granduer to stop CPEC for your american masters and to show your puny chests to your jahil awaam. you have long term plans to cross the LOC and invade Gligit. Just because the Chinese have stopped you now doesnt mean you wont try something stupid in the future. Your infrastructure along the LAC will take years to fully develop. You have moved troops from various other locations just to beef things up. Your equipment leaves alot to be desired. The PLA will not fight you in a conventional way. When they hit you the 27th will seem like a picnic. Galwan now belongs to the PLA.

And lol at Siachen being threatened. Now you're just giving self soothing statements out of thin air. Nothing much to add.

Look at a map. If things go south on CPEC, we will cut off Siachen with the help of the PLA. Your troops will die in the cold. Also they are now ingressing into arunachal pradesh and other areas. They are redrawing the 1993 agreement and pushing you back to 1959. And you cant do anything to stop them.

these are the facts that you sanghis cant seem to grasp. You thought you could do what you wanted with uncle sams help but you have realised that you cant. You thought you had territory but now you can not even patrol there. you thought you could waltz into gilgit and change the status of ladakh with no repercussions. You thought many things....

Your military is now neutered and under pressure. Just good for policing duties. your airforce was made a laughing stock. Your politicians sit and watch as your people die in their droves of the corona virus. And yet you come on here and continue to puff out your chests as if you've learnt to turn cow dung into gold.
Learn to self reflect and learn some humility or it will be taught to you..

 

[the Great Khan]

looks like this thread which started with so much potential for some has died horribly.
the dreams of China and Pakistan rounding up India on both sides, with Pakistan marching into IOK and China marching up to Delhi. the fantasy has taken a wrong turn for some.
As they be brave and fight your own battles.

i dont know where you got that myth from. We arent the ones who have been shouting about invading Gilgit and stopping CPEC. That has come from your govt. If you think this is a victory then good for you. the truth is clearly different.

 

[Mesozoic]

Looks like China's retreat hit [MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION] bhai pretty hard.

It's okay bud. I know the PLA gave false hopes of a "Two front war" and finally getting the forbidden fruit Kashmir from India but don't delude yourselves with outrageous whims like China invading India with 200,000 forces in Tibet or you'll be disappointed yet again like you're now.

And as I said earlier, if anyone still thinks that India gave up its own territory just by temporarily retreating back to it's forward positions, then they're either ill informed or are just pretending to have their heads stuck in sand to sooth their burns.

1993....1959... lol . I see you have caught on to the Sawhney/swine mental gymnasium to save face. I won't blame you though. And you can keep dreaming of "cutting off Siachen with the help of PLA" but one move on Siachen and suddenly '71 will "seem like a picnic".

 

[Hornbill]

China still can embarrass modi and his worshippers by releasing videos from clash site, low budget to midrange phones they sell in india have capabilities like night vision.I don't know what they are waiting for

 

[Mesozoic]

I think I understand the frustrations here.

All those tall claims of "China are going nowhere", "It's all over for India" , "India surrendered Galwan" etc etc have spectacularly burst into flames in a jiffy and some are evidently unable to get over it while some are seeking relief from imagining/projecting fictitious and baseless events.

 

[globalcitizen]

i dont know where you got that myth from. We arent the ones who have been shouting about invading Gilgit and stopping CPEC. That has come from your govt. If you think this is a victory then good for you. the truth is clearly different.

Not sure where you got that this is a victory for India. It’s status quo of two countries maintained nothing more or less

 

[the Great Khan]

Looks like China's retreat hit [MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION] bhai pretty hard.

It's okay bud. I know the PLA gave false hopes of a "Two front war" and finally getting the forbidden fruit Kashmir from India but don't delude yourselves with outrageous whims like China invading India with 200,000 forces in Tibet or you'll be disappointed yet again like you're now.

And as I said earlier, if anyone still thinks that India gave up its own territory just by temporarily retreating back to it's forward positions, then they're either ill informed or are just pretending to have their heads stuck in sand to sooth their burns.

1993....1959... lol . I see you have caught on to the Sawhney/swine mental gymnasium to save face. I won't blame you though. And you can keep dreaming of "cutting off Siachen with the help of PLA" but one move on Siachen and suddenly '71 will "seem like a picnic".

its not hit me hard at all. It is completley irrelevant to my thinking. if your airforce had shot down a few of our fighters i would have been harder hit.

But you didnt counter any of my claims. Therefore i can only assume you are afraid to look into this a little deeper.

Answer me this, have you or have you not agreed to a buffer zone in your own territory. ?
When will you be allowed to patrol and upto where?
Does the PLA not have a major force in tibet now?

Lets say your fascist regime suddenly wants to invade Gilgit, do you think the PLA will sit around quietly and let you do it?

Why was your army chief threatening to invade Pakistan via Gilgit and is now lost for words?

 

[the Great Khan]

Not sure where you got that this is a victory for India. It’s status quo of two countries maintained nothing more or less

your colleagues above are jumping around as if you destroyed the PLA.
And its status quo pre 1993.

 

[the Great Khan]

I think I understand the frustrations here.

All those tall claims of "China are going nowhere", "It's all over for India" , "India surrendered Galwan" etc etc have spectacularly burst into flames in a jiffy and some are evidently unable to get over it while some are seeking relief from imagining/projecting fictitious and baseless events.

but you did hand over Galwan. You cant patrol there can you? Can you patrol in the exact spot from a month ago? no.

 

[Mesozoic]

its not hit me hard at all. It is completley irrelevant to my thinking. if your airforce had shot down a few of our fighters i would have been harder hit.

Oh dear God. Okay your air force shot down one of our jets. What's your point ? Pakistan have always downed Indian jets more than vice versa but did that gain even an inch of Kashmir (instead you lost 800 sq Kms) or did that stop India from dismembering Pakistan humiliatingly ?

But you didnt counter any of my claims. Therefore i can only assume you are afraid to look into this a little deeper.

What claims ? That China will invade India with its forces in Tibet ?

I don't even think I need to counter those.

Answer me this, have you or have you not agreed to a buffer zone in your own territory. ? When will you be allowed to patrol and upto where?

That buffer zone is temporary lol. Stop getting excited. Technically there's a "buffer zone" on the Chinese side as well. Why are you getting excited over that ?

Lets say your fascist regime suddenly wants to invade Gilgit, do you think the PLA will sit around quietly and let you do it?

Who said we'll invade Gilgit ? Saying "POK and GB are integral part of India" doesn't mean "we'll invade Pakistan". Imran khan too "warns the world" about a nuclear war on India. Does that mean anything ?

Why was your army chief threatening to invade Pakistan via Gilgit and is now lost for words?

He never "threatened" to invade Pakistan. He just said "if ordered, we'll take action to reclaim POK" upon being asked. Now how likely do you think the "order" will come ?

You seem to have no touch with reality no offense.

 

[Mesozoic]

but you did hand over Galwan. You cant patrol there can you? Can you patrol in the exact spot from a month ago? no.

China too used to patrol upto PP14. Now they can't. So according to you, they handed over PP14, 15 and 17A to India. Didn't they ?

 

[the Great Khan]

Oh dear God. Okay your air force shot down one of our jets. What's your point ? Pakistan have always downed Indian jets more than vice versa but did that gain even an inch of Kashmir (instead you lost 800 sq Kms) or did that stop India from dismembering Pakistan humiliatingly ?

two but ok. That was actually quite a big deal. You may want to play it down but it simply cannot be. With regards to dismembering Pakistan we actually dismembered Bharat mata in 47 then took a large chunk of dogra territory.and even in 71 Bangladesh remains a predominately Muslim nation with more in common with pakistan than Bharat.


What claims ? That China will invade India with its forces in Tibet ?

Again you seem to fundamentally misunderstand the whole issue. Do you think China just did this for a laugh. They were sending your mighty PM a message. Do not mess with CPEC. End of. thats is the message. Now your army with have to spend more on policing duties across the borders with China. More cost, more troops required, more equipment. More resources.

I don't even think I need to counter those.



That buffer zone is temporary lol. Stop getting excited. Technically there's a "buffer zone" on the Chinese side as well. Why are you getting excited over that ?

Yes but you claimed they didnt enter your territory. they did, and then have made you move back 2km while they simply go back to their original positions.


Who said we'll invade Gilgit ? Saying "POK and GB are integral part of India" doesn't mean "we'll invade Pakistan". Imran khan too "warns the world" about a nuclear war on India. Does that mean anything ?

Your army cheif and politicians have threatened to do so on numerous occasions.

He never "threatened" to invade Pakistan. He just said "if ordered, we'll take action to reclaim POK" upon being asked. Now how likely do you think the "order" will come ?

why would he be asked that in the first place? it shows the thinking in your country. We know CPEC is threatened through various ways. Know this, any movement by your armed forces will be met with a very fitting response and now more so thanks to the PLA.


You seem to have no touch with reality no offense.

i seem to be quite grounded unlike your govt with all due respect.

 

[Abdullah719]

Please avoid making this thread about Pakistan or India vs Pakistan.

 

[Mesozoic]

[MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION]

two but ok.

Ok. It's a free world. We can claim whatever we wish for.

That was actually quite a big deal. You may want to play it down but it simply cannot be. With regards to dismembering Pakistan we actually dismembered Bharat mata in 47 then took a large chunk of dogra territory.and even in 71 Bangladesh remains a predominately Muslim nation with more in common with pakistan than Bharat.

We ? Lol. It was the UK parliament who passed a bill that divided British India. Please don't compare it to an embarrassing military defeat which involved the largest surrender since ww2.

And how does it matter if Bangladesh is a majority Muslim state ? Currently and historically they've been as pro-India as they get and support India on various matters including Kashmir. Congratulations on having more in common with them.

Yes but you claimed they didnt enter your territory. they did, and then have made you move back 2km while they simply go back to their original positions.

It's evident that you have very poor knowledge about the LAC. So, I would just let you keep saying whatever makes you feel better. Anything otherwise I do is just futile.

The rest of your post is just an empty rhetoric which I won't bother with.

 

[gani999]

two but ok. That was actually quite a big deal. You may want to play it down but it simply cannot be. With regards to dismembering Pakistan we actually dismembered Bharat mata in 47 then took a large chunk of dogra territory.and even in 71 Bangladesh remains a predominately Muslim nation with more in common with pakistan than Bharat.

Pakistan dismembered no one. They merely occupied a part of a Kashmir in an interim situation, in which there was no Indian Army presence following the Maharaja's decision to sign the accession instrument with India.
Once the Indian Army moved in, Pakistan's tribal invaders could move no further. And Pakistan hasn't been able to move any further in the last 70 odd years.

And Bangladeshis have nothing in common with Pakistan other than the religion they follow. They speak Bengali, which has Hindu roots. They got separated from Pakistan for a very real reason.

 

[smkk]

[MENTION=253]the Great Khan[/MENTION]
We ? Lol. It was the UK parliament who passed a bill that divided British India. Please don't compare it to an embarrassing military defeat which involved the largest surrender since ww2.

And how does it matter if Bangladesh is a majority Muslim state ? Currently and historically they've been as pro-India as they get and support India on various matters including Kashmir. Congratulations on having more in common with them.

Wrong! Just because Awami League is tolerating India does not mean that the people of Bangladesh are pro-Indian and support India on various matters including Kashmir. Even the Awami league is no longer with the Indian government due to the CAB incident. They had basically canceled all their coming and future official tour to India by their ministers and officers in protest of the CAB and BJP leaders' insults toward Bangladesh.

Due to border skirmishes each year, the entire population of Bangladesh is not only annoyed and took a stand against the Indian government, but recently the criticism and opposition of India is at highest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deaths_along_the_Bangladesh–India_border
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...bangladeshis-year-report-200708104609757.html

Regarding Kashmir, by the constitution of Bangladesh, the people of Bangladesh will always support the Independence of other tortured and oppressed populations throughout the world. Whether supporting Taiwan for its independence or supporting Kashmir, the population wholeheartedly with the oppressed localities of Kashmir. Since Kashmir is Muslim, therefore Bangladeshi people have got extra sympathy towards them. In this area, almost 90% population of Bangladesh are with the Kashmiri people and support their independence.

Due to Awami league, you do not see many protests but make no mistake for this one issue, Awami league party had lost most no of support and was heavily criticized by the entire country. Even many Awami league leaders showed their dissatisfaction with the high command due to this.

 

[cricketjoshila]

but you did hand over Galwan. You cant patrol there can you? Can you patrol in the exact spot from a month ago? no.

Who said this? India controls the Galwan valley till the LAC.

 

[finalfantasy7]

Who said this? India controls the Galwan valley till the LAC.

lac is part of the gulwan valley, no?

 

[Rana]

Are Indians still trying to prove they are a super power on this thread?

 

[El Generico]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Chinese pulling back from finger area along Pangong lake.<br><br>Finger 4 heights still occupied, troops from base move to Finger 5.<br><br>PLA still well within Indian perception of the LAC.<br> <a href="https://t.co/zVULwr8G77">https://t.co/zVULwr8G77</a></p>— Manu Pubby (@manupubby) <a href="https://twitter.com/manupubby/status/1281109242976464897?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 9, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


I guess the LAC is always changing and India is happy with the new arrangement even though they have lost area to China.

 

[cricketjoshila]

lac is part of the gulwan valley, no?

LAC is an imaginary line. Its not a well demarcated border.

 

[desirous of desire]

Who said this? India controls the Galwan valley till the LAC.

Its only that the line of actuall control has receded on Indian side.

 

[MenInG]

China and India have made progress in their latest talks on a long-running border dispute that turned deadly last month, according to a Chinese spokesperson.

Top commanders from the two sides held their fourth round of talks on Tuesday, a month after the deadly clash between their soldiers in the Galwan Valley, where India is building a strategic road connecting the region to an airstrip close to China.

India says 20 of its soldiers were killed in the June 15 clash and that there were casualties among the Chinese as well. China hasn't confirmed any casualties on its side.

"The two sides have made positive progress on pushing forward the disengagement of the front-line troops on the western section of the border and easing the border tension," Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said at a daily briefing on Wednesday.

Hua called for concrete action by India to implement the consensus the two countries reached and jointly safeguard peace and tranquillity along the border.

There was no immediate comment by India's defence ministry or the army.

Last week, India's India's external affairs minister, Subrahmanyam Jaishankar, said Indian and Chinese troops were disengaging from the standoff along their undemarcated border.

"It's very much a work in progress," Jaishankar said, adding that both sides agreed on the need to disengage because their troops are deployed very close to each other.

The disputed border, known as the Line of Actual Control, covers about 3,500 kilometres (2,175 miles) of frontier and stretches from Ladakh in the north to the Indian state of Sikkim in the northeast.

India and China fought a border war in 1962 that spilled into Ladakh. The two countries have been trying to settle their border dispute since the early 1990s, without success.

India and China have traded blame for triggering the high-altitude brawl in the Galwan Valley on June 15, in which 20 Indian soldiers were killed and at least 76 were injured.

The clash saw soldiers engaged in hand-to-hand fighting with clubs and sticks about 4,270 metres (14,000 feet) above sea level amid sub-zero temperatures.

China has yet to confirm whether it suffered casualties, but the number of Indian deaths is the highest along the border in more than five decades - a dramatic escalation that led to weeks of talks between senior military officials on how to ease tensions.

Earlier this month, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi made a surprise visit to the northern Himalayan region of Ladakh and, in a veiled dig at China, said the "age of expansionism" is over.

India claims 38,000sq km (15,000sq miles) of land currently under Chinese control while Beijing stakes claim to a 90,000sq km (34,700sq miles) area within Indian territory.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/07/china-progress-latest-border-talks-india-200715095917449.html

 

[finalfantasy7]

so what progress have they made

 

[cricketjoshila]

Its only that the line of actuall control has receded on Indian side.

And the source of your info is?

 

[MenInG]

India and China are trying to out-build each other along their disputed Himalayan border.

A new road to a high-altitude Indian forward air base is said to have been one of the main triggers for a clash with Chinese troops last month that left at least 20 Indian soldiers dead.

The 255km (140-mile) Darbuk-Shyok-Daulat Beg Oldi (DSDBO) road - which winds through mountain passes up to the world's highest airstrip more than 5,000m above sea level in the Ladakh region - was finished last year after nearly two decades of work. Its completion could increase India's ability to move men and materiel rapidly in a conflict.

The 15 June clash, in Ladakh's Galwan Valley, gave rise to concerns that tensions between the two nuclear powers could boil over. They have never agreed on the exact position of their 3,500km border, and their armies - two of the world's largest - come face-to-face at many points along the rough, inhospitable terrain.

Both India and China have devoted money and manpower to building roads, rail links and airfields along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) - the de facto boundary separating them - as well as modernising their military hardware in the region.

India's recent building work, including the DSDBO road, appears to have infuriated China - but China has been busy building along the border for years. Both sides tend to view the other's construction efforts as calculated moves to gain tactical advantage, and tensions flare when either announces a major project.

In the summer of 2017, the neighbours were brought to a stand-off at Doklam plateau, far to the east of Ladakh. That confrontation was also over construction - this time China attempting to extend a border road near a tri-junction between India, China and Bhutan.

Spoiler

India plays catch-up

The completion of the DSDBO road, which connects the crucial Daulat Beg Oldi airstrip - put back in use in 2008 - to the regional capital Leh, has strengthened India's ability to move equipment quickly. The all-weather road lies about 20km from the Karakoram Pass and runs parallel to the LAC in eastern Ladakh.

India has long stationed men at Daulat Beg Oldi but, before the reactivation of the airstrip and the completion of the road, the men there could get supplies only through helicopter drops, and nothing could be removed, turning the airstrip into a "graveyard for equipment".

Additional roads and bridges are now being built to link the road with inland supply bases and border outposts on the LAC, enabling Indian patrols to go further forward and shifting the tactical dynamics in the area.

Despite the recent clashes, India has signalled that it will continue improving its infrastructure. It is in the process of moving 12,000 workers from its eastern state of Jharkhand to build roads along the border in Ladakh, Himachal Pradesh and Uttarakhand, all areas which border China.

After years of letting its infrastructure fall into neglect, India is frantically trying to develop its borderlands to neutralise China's logistical advantage. It has begun a vast road and railway construction programme in the region.

A total of 73 strategic roads and 125 bridges have been sanctioned along different sectors on the Indian side of the LAC. But progress has been slow. Only 35 roads have been finished so far - key among them are Ghatibagarh-Lipulekh in Uttarakhand state and Damping-Yangtze in Arunachal Pradesh. Another 11 are scheduled to be built by the end of this year.

Delhi has also approved nine "strategic" rail lines - including the Missamari-Tenga-Tawang and the Bilaspur-Mandi-Manali-Leh sections. These run along the border with China and would allow the Indian military to carry heavy armour into position.

In terms of aviation facilities, India has about 25 airfields along the LAC but its recent focus has been on expanding its network of Advanced Landing Grounds (ALGs).

In 2018, India announced that it would modernise eight existing ALGs and also develop seven new ones close to the border. Sukhoi-30 advanced fighter jets and Chetak helicopters are deployed at Chabua - a key Indian Air Force base located in the state of Assam, along the eastern section of the border with China. That base has been recently renovated and modernised.

Although improved in recent years, India's building efforts continue to be hampered by rugged terrain, land acquisition problems, bureaucratic delays and budget constraints.

And it has a lot of catching up to do.

China's head-start

China has been putting its renowned construction abilities to use in recent years by building a network of air bases, cantonments and other physical infrastructure along the frontier.

Beijing began building roads in the Himalayan region as early as the 1950s, and now has an extensive road and rail network in Tibet and Yunnan Province.

Since 2016, China has upped the stakes by increasing connectivity to areas near its boundary with India, Bhutan and Nepal.

It is working on linking the old Xinjiang-Tibet Road to National Highway G219, which runs along almost the entire China-India border. A concrete road between Medog and Zayu near India's Arunachal Pradesh state - which China claims - will be completed by the end of this year.

There is also a new rail line under construction connecting Shigatse - the second largest city in Tibet - to Chengdu via Nyingchi, close to the Indian border.

Another rail link is planned between Shigatse and Yadong, a trading centre next to Sikkim, a Himalayan state in north-east India, where a skirmish took place between Indian and Chinese troops in early May.

China has around a dozen airfields facing India, with five of them being dual-use airports in Tibet, meaning for both civilian and military purposes.

It is building three new airports there and upgrading Shigatse, Ngari Gunsa and Lhasa's all-weather Gonggar airport by adding underground shelters and new runways.

A surface-to-air missile battery and advanced fighter jets are reportedly deployed at Ngari Gunsa airfield, which is located 4,274m (14,022) feet above sea level, about 200km from Pangong Lake.

In terms of air power, military experts say India has a relative advantage, as China's bases are generally further from the LAC and at higher altitudes, where the thinner air means jets can carry less fuel and payload.

Suspicions over border infrastructure

These infrastructure improvements on both sides are designed with one primary purpose - to allow the fast movement of troops and military hardware to the border in case of a full-scale conflict.

"When these ambitious infrastructure projects eventually are completed, large numbers of Indian forces will be able to move more freely within certain critical sub-theatres without fear of being crippled or physically blocked," noted a 2019 study by the Centre for a New American Security.

India long held back from extensive development, believing that improving infrastructure on its side of the border would facilitate Chinese movement inside Indian territory in the event of a conflict. But it is moving away from that reasoning.

The two countries have fought only one war, in 1962, when India suffered a humiliating defeat.

Rajeswari Pillai, a fellow at Observer Research Foundation, described India's infrastructure building as "primarily a defensive response because China's infrastructure represents a threat, as it can permit the Chinese army to engage in offensive operations and allows it to rapidly concentrate forces at any point where there is a dispute".

"India's poor infrastructure has meant that it has always had difficulties in defending against China's encroachments," Ms Pillai said.

You might also be interested in:

China denies encroaching, as does India when it is accused of stepping over the line. Several rounds of talks in the last three decades have failed to resolve the boundary disputes.

Meanwhile, Chinese state media has highlighted how quickly the military was able to mobilise for a recent drill near the India border using their efficient transport networks.

"The scale and short time it took to finish the mobilisation showed the army has the capability to project its power anywhere in China very quickly and send reinforcements to remote locations, including high elevation," an unnamed Chinese army veteran told the state-run Global Times.

As vast numbers of new roads, railways and bridges appear on both sides of the border, there is plenty of scope for more face-offs between Indian and Chinese troops in the future.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53171124

 

[Abdullah719]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The first five Rafale fighter jets bought from France in a multi-billion-dollar deal landed in India, and the defence minister used their arrival to launch a veiled warning to neighbouring China over territorial tensions <a href="https://t.co/SWTdeuOxnj">https://t.co/SWTdeuOxnj</a></p>— AFP news agency (@AFP) <a href="https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1288548345192087553?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 29, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[finalfantasy7]

so what progress have they made

so have india kicked out the chinese, or are china building in ladakh

 

[WhenSultansBowled]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The first five Rafale fighter jets bought from France in a multi-billion-dollar deal landed in India, and the defence minister used their arrival to launch a veiled warning to neighbouring China over territorial tensions <a href="https://t.co/SWTdeuOxnj">https://t.co/SWTdeuOxnj</a></p>— AFP news agency (@AFP) <a href="https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1288548345192087553?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">July 29, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

This pretty much sums up Indian priorities

 

[gani999]

This pretty much sums up Indian priorities

Pretty much sums up the priorities of most developing countries, including Pakistan.

 

[Abdullah719]

Rafale is a game changer, Chinese J 20 does not even come close, says former air chief Dhanoa

https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...hief-dhanoa/story-3UJINQ1r8cuGputdMeQpOJ.html

 

[Abdullah719]

How China Is Quietly Moving its Borders into India

Despite evidence to the contrary, India’s government continues to maintain that Chinese troops didn’t cross the Himalayan border and capture Indian territory during a June 2020 standoff.

However, VICE News has spoken to several Indian sources on the Changthang region of eastern Ladakh, all of whom claim that China has been encroaching on their territory for years. Not only that, but many claim the China’s People’s Liberation Army has been denying them access to their own pastures for “the last several years.”

VICE News has documented at least nine instances of Chinese incursions into Indian territory since the 1980s. Pieced together, these accounts validate India’s long-standing concern that China will inch forward from the Line of Actual Control using a strategy called salami-slicing.

The Line of Actual Control (LAC) is a conceptual attempt to seperate Indian and Chinese territory. An official border has never been marked on map since both disagree on its details: India considers the LAC to be 3,488 km long, while China considers it to be around 2,000 km long. It crosses four states and a Union Territory on the Indian side; on the Chinese side is the Tibet Autonomous Region.

The LAC is divided into three sectors: eastern, central and western. The central sector is largely dispute-free. In the eastern sector, China claims the Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh for itself and calls it South Tibet. In the western sector, the LAC runs between Ladakh on the Indian side and Aksai Chin on China’s. India claims that Aksai Chin, a largely uninhabited 5100-odd square kilometre desert, is part of Ladakh. China has administered the region since building a road in the 1950s through the desert to connect its troubled autonomous regions of Xinjiang and Tibet.

It is the Himalayan western sector — which crosses the Indian Union Territory of Ladakh — that saw the June 2020 standoff between the two countries.

The Indian government maintained that Chinese troops crossed into its territory in early May and objected to the construction of a road by Indian officials in the Galwan River Valley of eastern Ladakh. Several small skirmishes between soldiers of both countries followed, leading to a clash on June 15 in which 20 Indian soldiers died. China confirmed that the PLA suffered casualties but has not released its death toll.

The people of eastern Ladakh say that the Chinese have progressed from salami slicing to chopping away chunks of Indian territory over the last few years. “There was a time when the lands were being encroached in inches but now they have dropped all pretence and are grabbing the territory in kilometres,” said Gurmet Dorjay, a councillor of the Ladakh Autonomous Hill Development Council in Ladakh’s Leh district. Dorjay has documents to prove that the PLA now sits on two acres of agricultural land that once was owned by Dorjay Dawa, the village head of Rupsho in south-east Ladakh.

Kunga Lotos, a member of the Changpa nomadic community who lives in Demchok — a village on the border — has photographs of his land which he says is now under Chinese control. He describes two areas called Neylung and part of Kakjung, both pastures, which are no longer accessible to the residents of Demchok. “It has been three to four years since we were allowed to go into these pasturelands. They don’t let anyone through.”

The Changthang region in the Indian Trans-Himalayan area of Eastern Ladakh represents the extension of the Tibetan Plateau, an important highland grazing region. There, the Changpa are dependent on livestock including horses, yaks, sheep and goats, for their livelihoods.

The goats of Changthang produce what is often described as the finest cashmere wool — called Pashmina — in the world. However, restrictions about accessing their own territories and lack of infrastructural development in the border areas pose a threat to the Changpa people. Many nomads are giving up their way of life and migrating to urban areas.

Namgyal Durbuk, a former councillor of a border constituency known as Durbuk, says that many nomads are now barred by Chinese forces to fence off their grazing lands. He said that the loss of grazing lands has caused the deaths of tens of thousands of newborn goats this season.

“The Chinese object to us building anything in our own territory, but they have built buildings without any objections from our government,” said a local resident who wanted to remain anonymous since he works with the Indian Army. As an example, the resident described an attempt by the local Indian government to build a bathroom near the hot-springs of Demchok. “They didn’t let us build it but they have constructed a building on the other side. I don’t understand why they stopped us.”

On June 11, four days before the Galwan Valley attack, Urgain Chodon — chair of the hill development council of Nyoma block — reshared a Facebook post from a year earlier. In the post, she alleged that PLA personnel had encroached six kilometres into Indian territory on July 6, 2019 and unfurled the Chinese national flag. She then went on to allege that in December 2019, the Chinese claimed the land adjoining that area as theirs and pushed the Changpa people, who consider it their ancestral winter grazing land, further back.

“The Chinese troops send in their nomads first after which the PLA enters. When they see no nomads within our territory, they claim the land,” said Chodon.

Multiple sources, including councillors and nomads of the area, have told VICE News that the nomads from China pitch their tents and stay with their animals for a year. Over time, the PLA constructs helipads, roads, and other infrastructure in the area.

Locals say this process is followed by the PLA unfurling flags and banners on the Indian side. The Indian security forces do not let nomads access swathes of land near the LAC for security reasons. Residents of the Changtang region say this helps the Chinese, who allow their nomads to move into such areas.

Residents of Chushul, a border village, feel that the Indian government should trust them enough to let them use pastures close to the LAC. “The Indian government should take the nomads into confidence. The army and paramilitary forces deployed at the post do their duty and move on but the nomads stay. They are the real guardians of the border,” said Sonam Tsering, a resident.

Instead, residents say the Indian government has consistently denied the loss of land: no government records or data regarding the loss of land under Chinese occupation exist. An official with the Ladakh administration said - on the condition of anonymity, since they are not authorised to speak to journalists - that the land revenue department has not conducted surveys to verify the nomads’ claims.

Local residents say China has been capturing Indian territory since the 1960s. The earliest such occupation VICE News could verify was during the 1980s, at which point winter pastures named Tum-tseley and part of Skagjung were captured by the Chinese.

In 2008, the PLA also damaged tents and threatened nomads who were rearing cattle in pastoral lands known as Dokbug in Nyoma block.

Then in 2014, a face-off between Indian and Chinese forces in Chumur resulted in the winter pastures of Chabji and Gunsa phu, along with some agricultural lands, becoming cordoned off to nomads.

Sometime in 2014 - 2015, the PLA also occupied the Neylung pastures in Demchok phu within Demchok village. The Indian Army has prohibited nomads from accessing the area since.

The nomads of Tsaga, one of the last border villages, told VICE News that, in January-February this year, PLA personnel occupied the winter grazing land known as Lega Ngonpo, which is around 35 metres from the border. These nomads used to rear livestock in the area till 2019.

“Earlier this year, the PLA did not allow nomads from India to pitch their tents and set up their pens in the location where they have done so for generations. Instead, the nomads were asked to move their tents and pens 30-odd metres back. The PLA has however allowed them to let their animals graze in that location,” said the official with the Ladakh administration.

When asked about the nomads claiming loss of grazing lands under the Chinese, the Indian Army’s Srinagar-based spokesperson Rajesh Kalia said, “I will get the queries processed from the concerned offices and get back. So far there is no restriction on nomads to move along with their herds and they are carrying out their activities unhindered.” Follow-up questions, asked on the messaging platform WhatsApp, went unanswered.

The Chinese embassy in New Delhi did not respond to an email request for comment.

https://www.vice.com/en_in/article/ep4mjz/how-china-is-quietly-moving-its-borders-into-india

 

[IAJ]

Don’t know what to make of the news above. Must be fake according to our Indian experts here?

 

[finalfantasy7]

this hasnt been sorted out yet

 

[cricketjoshila]

Don’t know what to make of the news above. Must be fake according to our Indian experts here?

Wonder how these days sources to be considered are AL Jazeera

Or a pakistani origin founders vice news.

De escalation has happened at 2-3 points including Galwan.

Its pending at Pangong Tso and Depsang.

Both sides have reinforced their defences.

 

[JaDed]

Wonder how these days sources to be considered are AL Jazeera

Or a pakistani origin founders vice news.

De escalation has happened at 2-3 points including Galwan.

Its pending at Pangong Tso and Depsang.

Both sides have reinforced their defences.

Suroosh Alvi is actually amazing, Vice has gone down the drain now but was great with its documentaries and initial reporting.

Even this is Vice reporting against China's aggression ,context is important and how its being reported, its important to see how news will be perceived in the west, ofcourse Vice is against right wing govn across the world.

 

[MenInG]

China has carried out "provocative military movements" in the Himalayan border area disputed between the two countries overnight from Saturday to Sunday, according to an Indian army statement, in a fresh flare-up between the two nuclear-armed countries.

Indian troops pre-empted Chinese army's activity on the Pangong Tso Lake in Ladakh, part of which was transgressed by the Chinese soldiers in May, the statement said on Monday, adding that Indian troops took steps to thwart the Chinese attempt to "unilaterally change" facts on the ground.

"On the Night of 29/30 August 2020, PLA troops violated the previous consensus arrived at during military and diplomatic engagements during the ongoing standoff in Eastern Ladakh and carried out provocative military movements to change the status quo," the Indian army said in a statement.

Army officials from the two sides are meeting to resolve the latest border dispute that comes more than two months after 20 Indian soldiers were killed in fighting that broke out between the two sides in Ladakh's Galwan Valley.

"Indian troops pre-empted this PLA activity on the southern bank of Pangong Tso Lake, undertook measures to strengthen our positions and thwart Chinese intentions to unilaterally change facts on ground," it said.

The two Asian giants have held several rounds of military and diplomatic talks to resolve the border dispute that erupted in late April after Chinese troops transgressed into the Indian side of the Line of Actual Control - the de facto frontier between the two countries.

There was no immediate comment from China.

For months, troops have been locked in a face-off in the western Himalayas, where each side accuses the other of violating their nearly 3,500km-long (2,000 miles) border, most of which remains undemarcated.

The recent border tensions are the most serious in more than half a century.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...ts-border-thwarted-india-200831061515700.html

 

[Lonewarrior]

Fresh clashes break out between Indian, Chinese troops in Ladakh's Pangong

Fresh clashes broke out between Indian and Chinese troops at Pangong in Ladakh near Line of Actual Control on the intervening night of August 29-30. It is to be noted that the border tension between India and China has been simmering for over 100 days.

https://zeenews.india.com/india/fresh-clashes-break-out-between-indian-chinese-troops-in-ladakhs-pangong-2306495.html