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Countdown to the sackings post 3-0 ODI series defeat against England...

Then why hire Misbah and spent $250,000 a year when he can't do anything cuz it's the system that needs investment, and not the coach's salary?

I agree. I'd go as far as to say since coaches don't play a big role in cricket they should not be paid so much to coach in the first place. Put that money where its more needed like in our corrupted system.

Putting money in fielding coach, batting coach, bowling coach and head coach is a waste of money.
 
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We have 2 very good players and that's about it. You can get rid of the coaches and it will give some short term bounce but the underlying lack of quality and intelligence is really hurting us.
The one thing we must not do is to look backwards again because we know that never works. We need more FC games, we only play around 10 FC a year, which is poor for a country likes which generally has good weather. We need to increase that to at least 15 and we need to play more 50 games.
 
One key thing about this group is though this is essentially the best of what we have, their mentality and fear is instilled in them.

I know a plethora think Mickey Arthur was overrated but we definitely had a confidence and bounce to us with him at the helm.

I think the home coaches are always going to be a failure because there seems to be that lackadaisical “Bhai” is the coach versus the respect for a coach that we did when we brought in outsiders.

There are some definite changes required (Shadab, Faheem, Maqsood) but would that have won us the match? Reality is we are both lacking in talent along with lacking in tactics, a combination doomed for failure.

That’s not to say we should be all doom and gloom. To just watch to say I told you so is a poor attitude to have.

I think the coaching is a big problem and that fear has instilled in us like Pakistan of old.

There was once a minor league baseball player who I once heard say that most elite level major league players have the talent to be a good or even great player but the issue wasn’t always the lack of talent, some having more than others, but more than half was between the ears.

Do we lack talent? Yes.

Are we a top 5 side? No.

Accept that reality and then do the best with what you have but the mindset and fear needs to be removed.

This has been plaguing the team for decades. The fielding in recent years has honestly been solid, but today was Pakistan of old. That mindset may not take us to a top team but it should at the very least win us a match like today for some dignity and respect.

The dolly catches were a sight to behold.

Arthur said if you can’t make these plays you won’t play, and again many dislike him but an outsider from another country is probably the best bet to at least get the best of what you have and really bring some leadership and confidence.

Recycling Waqar who has been coach in and out now for a decade is just the same mindset and ideologies over and over again.

Unfortunately the “axe will fall” is unlikely to be heard and we will be going in circles with the same leadership and wondering why the results though probably the same in terms of series wins or losses, at least would lead to some respect with a win like today.

Mostly agree but putting a very high value on "talent" is a pill that I find hard to swallow.

Does "naturally gifted" talent play a role? Definitely yes!

However, determination, focus, and grit, supported by HARD WORK in the flourishing environment, trumps talent 99% of the time.

Let's dig into this "talent" myth a little more.

The question is?

Is "talent" natured or nurtured?

In other words, do you have it all naturally in you, or you are not born with it but you can build on it?

Yes, lots of shades of grey here but in an effort to answer this, I will divide it into two main categories.

"God Gifted talent".
This group is always, always, and ALWAYS very small no matter which country you look at, and no matter which race or nationality you look at.

So we will take it out and don't consider it into our discussion. (As I posted in a previous post, in our 50 years cricket history, we produced only ONE such God gifted talented player, and that was none other than Wasim Akram). So in this discussion, we are not yearning for Wasim Akrams.


The second group is general spectrum of talent. And this is the point of our discussion.

From the clinical psychology, we already know that kids from ages of 8 to 14 years go through an "Impressionist Phase".

This is usually where when their in born talents surface and curiosity on many various things starts to kick in as hormonal changes are in a frenzy of action.
And this is where the environment and the society plays an absolutely crucial role.
That environment can either nurture that talent/curiosity/skill/character or it can choke and kill it.

For example, this is where they may steal, or they may be open/curious towards homosexuality or show signs of academic excellence, OR show sporting interest/talent etc. Then its up to the environment/social setup and atmosphere they are in, that makes a crucial impact to whether nurture that talent/curiosity/skill/character or choke it.

In the western world, there is relatively more homosexuality in kids. And one of the reasons is, their environment nurtures it during the impressionist age.

In the Eastern/Muslim countries, kids hardly ever see guys dating guys, so even if they have any curiosity towards homosexuality, the environment usually chokes it, and they take heterosexual route because almost everyone is taking this path.

Same goes with the sporting talent. Do we have cricketing talent in Pakistan?
I think the answer is, we probably do. And it's not very far off from the cricketing talent present in England or Australia.

This talent spread, I think is pretty fairly divided among all races and all nations.

The subsequent question is: Do we have that environment and culture to nurture that sporting talent?
The answer is: No we don't.
And that's the major issue combined with a few others.

Take the example of Usman Khawaja.
Yes, not a huge and glorified international career but he went on to making it to Australia test side and played The Ashes. Which in my opinion is a huge deal. The point is, when the environment was right, his sporting talent flourished. Had he been in Pakistan, our environment may not have had helped him flourish his talent to become an Ashes level specialist batsman.
 
Imran khan needs to take a first hand role and fix this team because that last series was a national embarrassment
 
This is a very strong England side and credit to Babar for scoring 160 runs which is a fest that Kohli can never accomplish against the Poms...
 
This is a very strong England side and credit to Babar for scoring 160 runs which is a fest that Kohli can never accomplish against the Poms...

Lol this England attack is on par with Sri Lanka’s bowling attack
 
Imran khan needs to take a first hand role and fix this team because that last series was a national embarrassment

I keep hearing that Misbah is the reason for this mess, so if that is true, then Imran is directly responsible for destroying Pakistan cricket.

Misbah was appointed by the incompetent Wasim Khan who was appointed by Imran.

So it is all Imran’s fault.
 
Then why hire Misbah and spent $250,000 a year when he can't do anything cuz it's the system that needs investment, and not the coach's salary?

Pretty childish thing to say. The coach has a specific role which is to coach. His ability to coach is judged by the players and the board, not by some poster on PP. And he (like any other cricketing coach) is not responsible for what the players actually do on the field because his role essentially ends the moment the players go out onto the field.
 
Not sure there are too many options in terms of high quality players waiting in the wings to replace the current Pakistan players. However, I'm not sure Pakistan are getting the best out of this team either. Wont happen under Misbah/Waqar anyway .
 
Right now, I'm looking forward to the test series against West Indies. I think we have a strong chance there.

As for Misbah and Waqar, they will get sacked soon.
 
Not sure there are too many options in terms of high quality players waiting in the wings to replace the current Pakistan players. However, I'm not sure Pakistan are getting the best out of this team either. Wont happen under Misbah/Waqar anyway .

There are upgrades


Fakhar
Sharjeel (modern day player, can massacre bowling on his day)
Babar
Rizwan
Maqsood
Amer Yamin / M Nawaz (Yamin is solid bat who can bowl 6-7 overs, Nawaz may replace him on spin-friendly pitches)
Imad Wasim (far better bowler and batsman than Shadab)
Hasan Ali
M Hasnain / M Amir (Hasnain can hit a few, is better new-ball/late overs bowler than Haris. Amir as well)
Shaheen
Zahid / U Qadir (proper leggies, who actually turn the ball and have good googlies. Zahid is best leggie in domestics)
 
Should never have sacked Mickey Arthur. He might not have been a great coach by international class standards, but at least he'd be aware that preserving wickets for the first 25 overs went out of fashion back when Pakistan won the world cup in 1982.

Pakistan cricket is so lame and fear-ridden these days it's almost shocking.

Tbh Pakistan lost 5-0 against England in 2019 before the WC in similar fashion too.
 
I keep hearing that Misbah is the reason for this mess, so if that is true, then Imran is directly responsible for destroying Pakistan cricket.

Misbah was appointed by the incompetent Wasim Khan who was appointed by Imran.

So it is all Imran’s fault.

I don't think Imran Khan even watches cricket anymore. I remember him saying in 2016 WT20 that Misbah should be leading the T20 team. T20 TEAM LMAO. That shows how out of touch he is with cricket.
 
There are upgrades


Fakhar
Sharjeel (modern day player, can massacre bowling on his day)
Babar
Rizwan
Maqsood
Amer Yamin / M Nawaz (Yamin is solid bat who can bowl 6-7 overs, Nawaz may replace him on spin-friendly pitches)
Imad Wasim (far better bowler and batsman than Shadab)
Hasan Ali
M Hasnain / M Amir (Hasnain can hit a few, is better new-ball/late overs bowler than Haris. Amir as well)
Shaheen
Zahid / U Qadir (proper leggies, who actually turn the ball and have good googlies. Zahid is best leggie in domestics)

Zahid is an average bowler. Was carted around in PSL on helpful pitches for spin.
 
I keep hearing that Misbah is the reason for this mess, so if that is true, then Imran is directly responsible for destroying Pakistan cricket.

Misbah was appointed by the incompetent Wasim Khan who was appointed by Imran.

So it is all Imran’s fault.

It is actually Imran Khan’s fault in appointing Misbah. But he couldn’t have guessed how pathetic this decision would eventually turn out to be
 
Imran khan needs to take a first hand role and fix this team because that last series was a national embarrassment

He could care less. Cricket was never his priority once he retired. He is a typical aristocratic Male who doesn’t look back at cricket once he is passed his playing days.
 
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