Curious case of Indians and Pakistanis

[English August]

Yes, because you want to reduce the entire CPEC to 2 figures, which we don't want to do for reasons we've explained over and over again (reasons you don't seem to comprehend) you must be smarter than the rest of us.

And FYI - it IS true that poverty in India is 3 times as high as Pakistan. Why would you try to deny that?

You really need to stop making stuff up.

I never said you should reduce your CPEC story to 2 things. Go and read that thread again.
I asked for a couple of things just to get started, since Pakistani posters were not able to provide me *anything*. If you want to, you're most welcome to provide me 50 things. Heck, please feel free to point me to a 500 page report on CPEC and I'll happily read it. Please do. Don't feel shy, point me to the report.

On poverty, it's a classic case cherrypicking (sometimes outdated) factoids to support a narrative as opposed to letting the numbers speak for themselves. A few years ago, India's poverty % was roughly 3 times that of Pak, but has since then reduced faster than Pak's given the significantly higher GDP growth India is experiencing vis-a-vis Pak. Within a few years this delta is essentially going to disappear. Go to http://worldpoverty.io/ for real time latest numbers. Extreme poverty rate in India is now 5.8% vs. Pak's 2.7%. In which world does this make it "three times as high"?

Classic Pakistani delusional dreams.

On the other hand, take a look at this graph and weep: https://www.google.com/publicdata/e...m=country:IND:PAK:BGD&met_y=ny_gnp_pcap_pp_cd

See the delta between India and Pak in 1990. See what happened in 2011. And then see where they are today? And now tell me, do you think there is *any* possibility of these two lines ever crossing each other again?

 

[English August]

However Indians choose not to discuss these points in my experience, and try to divert the discussion by talking about external threats to India such as CPEC or just talk about the one pseudo positive of India that is the economy, because it's easier to say and impress others by saying India is one of the fastest growing economies in the world than trying to explain how 100 of Millions struggle in India despite the riches or how someone in India can get killed because of their caste.

How is CPEC an external threat to India? Please explain.

Also, how is economic growth a pseudo positive? Do you even understand the meaning of words like "economy", "pseudo" or "positive"?

 

[blue_champion]

The reason is simple, it damages a fragile perception of India worldwide.

The average Indian in the UK has very little knowledge of the Indian economy, and prefers not to speak of the realities of India such as poverty, education, and health. BBC on FB is a shining example of this phenomena as is The Times UK.

Indians in the UK have little idea of what India's GDP is for example, or India's largest exports/imports, but they have a good idea of how many live in abject poverty, how many are uneducated, the situation with national health, and other social issues like caste/religious based violence/killings.

However Indians choose not to discuss these points in my experience, and try to divert the discussion by talking about external threats to India such as CPEC or just talk about the one pseudo positive of India that is the economy, because it's easier to say and impress others by saying India is one of the fastest growing economies in the world than trying to explain how 100 of Millions struggle in India despite the riches or how someone in India can get killed because of their caste.

Lol you have some vivid imagination...but based on your posts, I can kind of imagine where you get your “world view” from.

Anyways related to the topic, Indians in general are genetically tuned to think about investing their $$$ or £££.

While this may not be always for a Noble or philanthropic cause but always for roi purposes..be it real estate or business.

I am not from Punjab but I was absolutely stunned when I visited there to see how prosperous the average farmers were or how good the infrastructure was.

I am told most Punjabis re-invest a lot back there. Same applies to Gujrat,Kerala and Andhra Pradesh, 3 other states that have a huge NRI populations spread across US,UK and Canada.

They keep up with the economic and political situation and trust me not to win a pointless argument on an online forum but to see actual investment opportunities( trust me though the online forum thing might be a small victory for a moment of pleasure just like other such things out there )

I have a hunch you have no idea what GDP means but anyway you don’t have to understand GDP or fundamental economics to understand a handsome return on investment if you are driven to make more money.This is where Indians excel.

Also most Indians....Hindus especially, are not too hung up on religion and news such as persecution of their ilk or other such ** while can have a momentary impact, but doesn’t effect their lives...they carry on living their lives for the betterment of themselves and their families rather than living for a religion or any other pointless ideology that does nothing for anyone.

Indian philosophy pretty much is keeping religion as a spiritual concept and leaving it at home .

This infact applies to most Indians regardless of religion hence translating to individual success in all fields.

So either your pulling your opinions/views from parts unknown or just winging it...either ways it takes talent, so genuine appreciation there.

India has a lot of potential due to its sheer numbers in population and there is a reason why pretty much every major company from Facebook to Disney is looking to tap the Indian market.

Now before you bring in the pointless toilets and poverty debate, there is a reason why even average Indian movies rake in big moolah, some ridiculous numbers not in sync with their quality. So Disney May not produce a Lion King here but if they make a couple of Dangals that should see their books in the black.

There is a organic/ayurved FMCG company run by a baba that is singlehandedly giving P&G and other Mncs nightmares as losing market share in India will pretty much tank their market values. This is not propoganda...as I always say google is your friend.

Why am I telling you this because this is the reason why India is a place to invest. There is no
Political instability like a military coup or religious fanaticism that can cause instability or any such **.

This motivates the Indian NRI to invest his hard earned $$$ back in India.

While the average Pakistani atleast in USA is trying to move away from his identity, the Indian identity has moved only upwards.

I got into a cab in Chicago once and I had a light stubble going on then and the cab driver who was a Pakistani assumed I was one of those and started discussing Israel with me lol. Indians don’t care about Fiji or Nepal

Anyways point of the long winded post is friendly advice go outside and meet folks of other nationalities and religions...you will learn a lot of new things.

 

[PakLFC]

I have a love-hate relationship with Indian people. They hate my pro-Pak attitude and hardcore stance over Kashmir and formation of Pakistan. I equally despise their occupation of Kashmir although it has never gotten physical, we'd be sacked on the spot if such behaviour were to take place at work! Sarcastic comments are common between the two. Both understand that the other is not gonna give an inch, if they call Pakistanis over religious then I will call them American wannabe's who suffer from an inferiority complex! Pointing out one countries problems often apply to the other as well, ultimately we get on okay as long as things like politics and religion are kept out. I don't make personal remarks about families or so forth neither do they. It further helps if both sides are from a similar background like Punjabis on both sides get on well. To Indian's religion may be a personal thing, to Pakistanis it's the foundation of our country.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Lol you have some vivid imagination...but based on your posts, I can kind of imagine where you get your “world view” from.

Anyways related to the topic, Indians in general are genetically tuned to think about investing their $$$ or £££.

While this may not be always for a Noble or philanthropic cause but always for roi purposes..be it real estate or business.

I am not from Punjab but I was absolutely stunned when I visited there to see how prosperous the average farmers were or how good the infrastructure was.

I am told most Punjabis re-invest a lot back there. Same applies to Gujrat,Kerala and Andhra Pradesh, 3 other states that have a huge NRI populations spread across US,UK and Canada.

They keep up with the economic and political situation and trust me not to win a pointless argument on an online forum but to see actual investment opportunities( trust me though the online forum thing might be a small victory for a moment of pleasure just like other such things out there )

I have a hunch you have no idea what GDP means but anyway you don’t have to understand GDP or fundamental economics to understand a handsome return on investment if you are driven to make more money.This is where Indians excel.

Also most Indians....Hindus especially, are not too hung up on religion and news such as persecution of their ilk or other such ** while can have a momentary impact, but doesn’t effect their lives...they carry on living their lives for the betterment of themselves and their families rather than living for a religion or any other pointless ideology that does nothing for anyone.

Indian philosophy pretty much is keeping religion as a spiritual concept and leaving it at home .

This infact applies to most Indians regardless of religion hence translating to individual success in all fields.

So either your pulling your opinions/views from parts unknown or just winging it...either ways it takes talent, so genuine appreciation there.

India has a lot of potential due to its sheer numbers in population and there is a reason why pretty much every major company from Facebook to Disney is looking to tap the Indian market.

Now before you bring in the pointless toilets and poverty debate, there is a reason why even average Indian movies rake in big moolah, some ridiculous numbers not in sync with their quality. So Disney May not produce a Lion King here but if they make a couple of Dangals that should see their books in the black.

There is a organic/ayurved FMCG company run by a baba that is singlehandedly giving P&G and other Mncs nightmares as losing market share in India will pretty much tank their market values. This is not propoganda...as I always say google is your friend.

Why am I telling you this because this is the reason why India is a place to invest. There is no
Political instability like a military coup or religious fanaticism that can cause instability or any such **.

This motivates the Indian NRI to invest his hard earned $$$ back in India.

While the average Pakistani atleast in USA is trying to move away from his identity, the Indian identity has moved only upwards.

I got into a cab in Chicago once and I had a light stubble going on then and the cab driver who was a Pakistani assumed I was one of those and started discussing Israel with me lol. Indians don’t care about Fiji or Nepal

Anyways point of the long winded post is friendly advice go outside and meet folks of other nationalities and religions...you will learn a lot of new things.

There's no way I am taking your post seriously, it's just an emotive rant, especially after the claims you made today, and the fact you never read a single link you cite but pass comments on said links.

Thanks for trying though, but please do not waste your time with me because this thread is about Indians/Pakistan outside of the SC - once again READ.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Only last month a new Indian colleague was boasting about the Indian economy at my office. I thought to myself, here we go again. It was proper chest thumping and all.

When I explained to him, and proved through official figures, that despite Indian's GDP, GDP per capita is roughly about 20% higher compared to Pakistan's, for an economy that is 10 times the size of Pakistan, he was almost in tears. It was like he had a major epiphany. Worse was to come, he then huffed and puffed when I showed him how KSE is the best performing stock market in Asia since 2000. He just refused to believe the facts facing him despite the empirical evidence on his screen via Bloomberg. I showed him how levels of poverty are reduced in India by lowering the threshold of a living wage to $1.90 - essentially an illusion.

I politely reminded him that numbers are not an exact science, so he should quit boasting about an economy that only serves the interests of less than 1% in India given 25 Million apply for 90000 jobs. He then went on about great opportunities in India to which I simply asked, "Why are you in the UK working then?"

He doesn't talk about the Indian economy anymore, not to my knowledge anyway, and I am pretty sure he doesn't want to speak to me anymore. Though the things is, people like him really ask for it. They never do their homework.

Thankfully though topics like Cricket and Economy are as quantifiable and objective as one can get, so ignorance can be rectified in a jiffy. It's the politics and history that really does my head in! The discussions just go around in circles!

 

[giri26]

I had a few Pakistan friends in the US. We got along really well. We played cricket together, participated in College events together. No egos or unnecessary conversations. We just never ever discussed about politics and kept things simple. We are still friends even though I have moved to Australia.

 

[ahsan17]

You really need to stop making stuff up.

I never said you should reduce your CPEC story to 2 things. Go and read that thread again.
I asked for a couple of things just to get started, since Pakistani posters were not able to provide me *anything*. If you want to, you're most welcome to provide me 50 things. Heck, please feel free to point me to a 500 page report on CPEC and I'll happily read it. Please do. Don't feel shy, point me to the report.

You asked for power tariffs from 2 power plants, as a way to make up your mind about whether CPEC was good or bad for Pakistan. How is that NOT reducing CPEC to 2 data points?

You claim to be knowledgeable about CPEC, yet have failed to look up any CPEC reports online. I just did a google search and I found reports from World Bank and Deloitte. Beyond that, I am not really sure why you are expecting there to be hundreds of pages of reports from Western sources given this project only concerns those two countries. Most of the sources are from Pakistan and China, and you don't want to look at those. There is a healthy amount of reporting, but you seem to want an article published every month in western media or something.

Also, it sounds like you have made the conclusion that CPEC is a failure on the premise that there is not very much reporting on CPEC in Western media. Am I correct on that or am I misunderstanding? I am not saying anything about the premise being correct or not btw.

On poverty, it's a classic case cherrypicking (sometimes outdated) factoids to support a narrative as opposed to letting the numbers speak for themselves. A few years ago, India's poverty % was roughly 3 times that of Pak, but has since then reduced faster than Pak's given the significantly higher GDP growth India is experiencing vis-a-vis Pak. Within a few years this delta is essentially going to disappear. Go to http://worldpoverty.io/ for real time latest numbers. Extreme poverty rate in India is now 5.8% vs. Pak's 2.7%. In which world does this make it "three times as high"?

I was speaking of the latest numbers available from World Bank. And now you are using a website that appears the model the latest poverty rate rather than using last actual known numbers like World Bank does.

On the other hand, take a look at this graph and weep: https://www.google.com/publicdata/e...m=country:IND:PAK:BGD&met_y=ny_gnp_pcap_pp_cd

We should weep at the fact that despite having a lower GDP per capita, our poverty is less than half (based on the dubious numbers of the website you posted)? Or that India has such a bad income divide that most of that growth has gone to the top 1%, which explains the huge number of people in poverty?

See the delta between India and Pak in 1990. See what happened in 2011. And then see where they are today? And now tell me, do you think there is *any* possibility of these two lines ever crossing each other again?

You seem to have predicted the future so far out, we need a time machine to verify your predictions. Yes, there is a possibility of these numbers crossing again when CPEC comes to fruition or soon after. Our growth rate is 5.7% already with power cuts we had before, with terrorism issues we had before, both of which are in much better shape than before. Not to mention no CPEC. With those issues resolved, and with the advent of CPEC, yes it is entirely possible that those two lines might cross several years down the road.

 

[ahsan17]

Only last month a new Indian colleague was boasting about the Indian economy at my office. I thought to myself, here we go again. It was proper chest thumping and all.

When I explained to him, and proved through official figures, that despite Indian's GDP, GDP per capita is roughly about 20% higher compared to Pakistan's, for an economy that is 10 times the size of Pakistan, he was almost in tears. It was like he had a major epiphany. Worse was to come, he then huffed and puffed when I showed him how KSE is the best performing stock market in Asia since 2000. He just refused to believe the facts facing him despite the empirical evidence on his screen via Bloomberg. I showed him how levels of poverty are reduced in India by lowering the threshold of a living wage to $1.90 - essentially an illusion.

I politely reminded him that numbers are not an exact science, so he should quit boasting about an economy that only serves the interests of less than 1% in India given 25 Million apply for 90000 jobs. He then went on about great opportunities in India to which I simply asked, "Why are you in the UK working then?"

He doesn't talk about the Indian economy anymore, not to my knowledge anyway, and I am pretty sure he doesn't want to speak to me anymore. Though the things is, people like him really ask for it. They never do their homework.

Thankfully though topics like Cricket and Economy are as quantifiable and objective as one can get, so ignorance can be rectified in a jiffy. It's the politics and history that really does my head in! The discussions just go around in circles!

Some Indians seem to be so proud of their country, and not the humble proud kind but the arrogant proud kind. The way they speak of their country is like if they achieved time travel or something.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Some Indians seem to be so proud of their country, and not the humble proud kind but the arrogant proud kind. The way they speak of their country is like if they achieved time travel or something.

I was just about to say the same thing. Being proud of your country is a great thing, but to brag and be arrogant about your country is quite another. What made it worse for the Indian colleague I mentioned above was he had migrated from India to UK to seek a better life. He is essentially a living falsification of arrogant Indian claims which makes him an open target when topics like the economy prop up; basically hunting season is open.

 

[R3verse Swing]

You asked for power tariffs from 2 power plants, as a way to make up your mind about whether CPEC was good or bad for Pakistan. How is that NOT reducing CPEC to 2 data points?

You claim to be knowledgeable about CPEC, yet have failed to look up any CPEC reports online. I just did a google search and I found reports from World Bank and Deloitte. Beyond that, I am not really sure why you are expecting there to be hundreds of pages of reports from Western sources given this project only concerns those two countries. Most of the sources are from Pakistan and China, and you don't want to look at those. There is a healthy amount of reporting, but you seem to want an article published every month in western media or something.

Also, it sounds like you have made the conclusion that CPEC is a failure on the premise that there is not very much reporting on CPEC in Western media. Am I correct on that or am I misunderstanding? I am not saying anything about the premise being correct or not btw.



I was speaking of the latest numbers available from World Bank. And now you are using a website that appears the model the latest poverty rate rather than using last actual known numbers like World Bank does.



We should weep at the fact that despite having a lower GDP per capita, our poverty is less than half (based on the dubious numbers of the website you posted)? Or that India has such a bad income divide that most of that growth has gone to the top 1%, which explains the huge number of people in poverty?



You seem to have predicted the future so far out, we need a time machine to verify your predictions. Yes, there is a possibility of these numbers crossing again when CPEC comes to fruition or soon after. Our growth rate is 5.7% already with power cuts we had before, with terrorism issues we had before, both of which are in much better shape than before. Not to mention no CPEC. With those issues resolved, and with the advent of CPEC, yes it is entirely possible that those two lines might cross several years down the road.

Epic pwnage. Oh my.

I love the last paragraph. With all the issues Pakistan is facing, Pakistan is still performing better than India in some cases, and one can only imagine how Pakistan's economy will perform once the issues are resolved. Of course, once CPEC is in full flow too.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

It's not about each and every one of them, it about a majority.

Next time you are in London, you should visit Southall. There was also a report a few years back that some Sikh Gudwara's in the UK are promoting Khalistan movement. Why? Modi and the rise of Hindutva in India.

I think Southall is a unique case in that it was heavily populated by Sikhs and so you tend to get more Sikh nationalism than you do anywhere else. I grew up with a few Sikhs, and while some of them were quite proud Sikhs, they didn't really talk about Khalistan at all.

As for the answer to the OP, you can't really take the internet seriously. People do not talk in such absolute terms in real life. On the internet you would probably get a few august Indian individuals whooping it up with joy at the Punish a Muslim day fanfare, if he was living in Britain he would probably stay indoors in case he got beaten up being mistaken for one.

 

[LordJames]

I have pretty much lived all my life in India and have never interacted with Pakistani Muslims (have a few Hindu cousins from across the border) in real life.

Many posters here though are from UK, US, Canada where I'm sure there's regular intermingling between the people of two nationalities considering the similar background and stuff.

After yesterday's controversial tweet from Afridi there seemed to have begun a majorly bitter contested cyber warfare between the Keyboard Warriors of the two Nations. Even I won't deny I felt little angry too and had to restrain myself from engaging in this futile exercise of mudslinging and what-aboutism.

My question to Overseas Pakistanis and Indians: How do you guys manage to interact with your Indian or Pakistani friends or work colleagues whenever such controversy erupts. Do you people fight in the similar fashion as many of you love to do on internet? Are punches and hurling abuses common?

Or this fake machoism and bravado is reserved for online world only and in the real world you are just like one of those pansies who only like to mind their own business and nothing else .

Children of both Indian and Pakistani parents born in the west generally don't care about politics. Its the overseas contingent of both countries who are Hyper-Nationals

 

[English August]

You asked for power tariffs from 2 power plants, as a way to make up your mind about whether CPEC was good or bad for Pakistan. How is that NOT reducing CPEC to 2 data points?

You claim to be knowledgeable about CPEC, yet have failed to look up any CPEC reports online. I just did a google search and I found reports from World Bank and Deloitte. Beyond that, I am not really sure why you are expecting there to be hundreds of pages of reports from Western sources given this project only concerns those two countries. Most of the sources are from Pakistan and China, and you don't want to look at those. There is a healthy amount of reporting, but you seem to want an article published every month in western media or something.

Also, it sounds like you have made the conclusion that CPEC is a failure on the premise that there is not very much reporting on CPEC in Western media. Am I correct on that or am I misunderstanding? I am not saying anything about the premise being correct or not btw.



I was speaking of the latest numbers available from World Bank. And now you are using a website that appears the model the latest poverty rate rather than using last actual known numbers like World Bank does.



We should weep at the fact that despite having a lower GDP per capita, our poverty is less than half (based on the dubious numbers of the website you posted)? Or that India has such a bad income divide that most of that growth has gone to the top 1%, which explains the huge number of people in poverty?



You seem to have predicted the future so far out, we need a time machine to verify your predictions. Yes, there is a possibility of these numbers crossing again when CPEC comes to fruition or soon after. Our growth rate is 5.7% already with power cuts we had before, with terrorism issues we had before, both of which are in much better shape than before. Not to mention no CPEC. With those issues resolved, and with the advent of CPEC, yes it is entirely possible that those two lines might cross several years down the road.

Again, instead of twisting and turning, why not just point me to the reports if they exist? I already read the Deloitte report and posted about it if you were tracking the other thread. It's 5-6 pages, of which 2-3 are devoted to colorful maps and pictures. I never said I'm only looking for Western media. Feel free to point me to a project report on Pakistani govt. sites or Chinese sites. If they're in English, I'll read it.

Instead of getting caught up in 2 vs. 50 vs. 500, why not just point me to stuff that's out there? You're not doing it because it doesn't exist. It's a fantastic project in the vivid imagination of some people.

You were caught lying about your "3 times poverty" line. Did you ack that? No.

My data source that you're questioning is exactly the same data source you're quoting. Your 3 times number, which is an old number, and which you lied about by quoting it in the current context, came from exactly the same source I am talking about. All this data comes from WB sources. The link I pointed to just has a better front-end and updates the data real time.

You probably know nothing about how these WB stats/models work, so you're demonstrating your ignorance here.

Your friends here are pooh-poohing the economic / GDP data that the rest of world trusts. And you're confirming your ignorance by telling me that Pak per capita GDP will overtake India in the coming years!

So a country, whose population growth rate is way over India's, and whose GDP growth rate is way lower than India's, which is about to go to IMF for a bailout, who is already grey-list by FATF, and about to be black-listed, will overtake India.

Yes, that makes a lot of sense! No harm in dreaming at all.

PS: Please do post links to these fancy CPEC reports. I'm genuinely interested. And don't get caught up in 2 vs. 50. Just post whatever you have.

 

[English August]

Epic pwnage. Oh my.

I love the last paragraph. With all the issues Pakistan is facing, Pakistan is still performing better than India in some cases, and one can only imagine how Pakistan's economy will perform once the issues are resolved. Of course, once CPEC is in full flow too.

Once CPEC is in full flow (interesting choice of words -- I don't know what it means!), you'd be under roughly $60B Chinese debt. I'll let you calculate interest burden of that (if you know what the interest rate is, that is -- I am yet to see a report that outlines simple details like these), and then figure out what it might to do an already fragile Pak economy that's about to go to IMF for another bailout.

But hey, no harm is congratulating yourselves on epic pwnage! This is internet after all.

 

[sshakir411]

What a surprise...Indians have turned this thread in to another CPEC isn't good for Pakistan thread.

With how hard Indians have tried to convince us it really does seem very odd. Or maybe it's just another moonh par ram ram aur baggal mey churri type of an approach.

 

[Pakpak]

Indian Sikhs living abroad. At least post relevance. Why is each one of your posts so defensive? 20% is also a bogus claim.

Indian Sikhs living in the UK have utter disdain for India. You think the Indian army can wipe their families off the face of the earth and they will forget? You are dreaming.

So do Sikhs in Canada, when I went to visit Ottawa a few years ago the temples had banner after banner citing 1984.

 

[R3verse Swing]

Only mystic meg would be demanding detailed reports on CPEC which have yet to be finalised. No matter which initial reports are presented, nothing will suffice. Those who fear CPEC have even rejected reports by banks and accounting firms. So much so FATF must be mentioned as a counter, even though nothing is confirmed with respect to FATF - I wonder which reports people are reading?

My advice to American Born Confused Desis is simple, learn to respect innocent children who are murdered by the Bharat Army for being terrorists, before worrying about the threat of CPEC. I mean how is it that $50 Billion is considered a threat to a $2.5 Trillion economy, but children throwing stones is a bigger threat? Only in India I guess.

Oh and 1 in 5 Indians are poor, and this is a conservative estimate, well over 3 times that of Pakistanis poor.

http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/infographic/2016/05/27/india-s-poverty-profile

ABCDs pretending they know more than Taxi drivers. Wow what standards!

 

[R3verse Swing]

What a surprise...Indians have turned this thread in to another CPEC isn't good for Pakistan thread.

With how hard Indians have tried to convince us it really does seem very odd. Or maybe it's just another moonh par ram ram aur baggal mey churri type of an approach.

Here's the reality. Both China and Pakistan control parts of Kashmir. India is not a friend with either but a foe. CPEC is more a political threat than an economic one, and bachare Indians are trying to come to terms with reality by pretending they care for Pakistan. In other words, they are extending an olive branch to Pakistan, pleading with Pakistan not to sign up with China, under the self-deception that Pakistan and India have more in common compared with China.

Put simply, India's isolation polices are coming home to roost.

 

[dhonixi]

Some usual suspect highzack this thread too. Indians has every thing bad According to them and they are living in utopian society. Some British Pakistani don't even know about Pakistan but they knew everything about India and Sikhs. Troll

 

[English August]

Only mystic meg would be demanding detailed reports on CPEC which have yet to be finalised. No matter which initial reports are presented, nothing will suffice. Those who fear CPEC have even rejected reports by banks and accounting firms. So much so FATF must be mentioned as a counter, even though nothing is confirmed with respect to FATF - I wonder which reports people are reading?

Well played. So finally you ack that that there are no detailed reports because they're not yet finalized. I'm okay with that. I'm sure someone with do a detailed project analysis in due course.

But you're telling me that none of this is finalized, but you know exactly how much benefit Pakistan will get out of it? So much so that your other friend claimed that Pak will overtake India in per capita GDP number in the coming years, and you were enthusiastically applauding his dreams?

So make up your mind: do you have the details or you don't? Can't have it both ways!

 

[R3verse Swing]

So do Sikhs in Canada, when I went to visit Ottawa a few years ago the temples had banner after banner citing 1984.

This is 100% true, JT's recent visit to India is proof that Khalistan threat is alive and real - why else would he get snubbed! However Indians in SC live in denial.

Get this, in 2012, Former Indian general stabbed in London.

Retired Indian military commander Kuldip Singh Brar, who led a controversial 1984 operation against Sikh fighters in the Golden Temple in Amritsar, has been stabbed in London in what may have been a targeted attack.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9580112/Former-Indian-general-stabbed-in-London.html

1984 is still fresh in their memories!

 

[English August]

This is 100% true, JT's recent visit to India is proof that Khalistan threat is alive and real - why else would he get snubbed! However Indians in SC live in denial.

I don't think any Indian would have any problem with Khalistanis creating a state of Khalistan. They can do it wherever they want -- Canada, UK, Pakistan, etc. Since they have so much support in these places, wouldn't be hard to part with some land to create this state, would it?

 

[sshakir411]

On topic - I can only speak of what I've seen in the Midwest so this is anecdotal:

Second generation American Pakistanis and Indians don't care about politics or rivalry in anyway. They're not brought up with the biases and one sided history lessons. This is also true for Bangladeshis. These kids grow up like any other American kids mostly unaware of what happens in the SC.

First generation American Pakistanis and Indians are different. They bring in political baggage and biases that effects how they behave. For Indians brought up outside of the US I've noticed a couple of things: 1) They only hang with other Indians 2) Are usually very quiet about their personal lives or views and avoid any confrontation