Depraved brothers led Telford paedophile ring that groomed and prostituted young girls

[MenInG]

It had been branded as Britain's worst sex-abuse scandal, with claims that up to 1,000 children could have been affected.

Concerns that Telford was the centre of an organised child-sex ring first emerged in May 2013, when seven men were jailed for a string of offences relating to four teenage girls.

Up until that time, the findings of Operation Chalice – a two-year investigation into a Wellington-based sex abuse gang by West Mercia Police – had been subject to reporting restrictions. But the conviction of brothers Ahdel 'Eddie' Ali and Mubarek 'Max' Ali, along with five accomplices, laid bare the crimes that had been taking place in the historic market town for years.

Ahdel Ali, then 25, was convicted of 18 offences. They included the rape of a 13-year-old girl, six offences of under-age sex with the same girl, three charges of controlling a child prostitute and sexual activity with a second victim, two offences of sexual activity with a child involving a third girl and offences of grooming and inciting child prostitution and sexual activity with a fourth victim. He was handed a 26-year extended sentence, with an order that he should serve 18 years in prison as well as an additional eight years on licence.

Mubarek Ali, who lived with his brother in Regent Street, Wellington, was convicted of seven offences; four of controlling child prostitution, causing child prostitution and two offences of trafficking children for prostitution. He received a 22-year sentence – 14 years immediate custody, with eight years on licence following his release.

Stafford Crown Court was told how the Ali brothers led a wider paedophile ring in the town, working with a network of associates from within the Asian community. Two of the four victims were sold as prostitutes to workers at local restaurants, while the others were encouraged to work as prostitutes. One girl was taken to a number of restaurants in the Telford area by the two brothers, Mohammed Ali Sultan and Tanveer Ahmed.

Some of the defendants worked as takeaway delivery drivers providing links with restaurant workers who provided the client base, paying £20 to £50 for sex.

Flats in the Wellington area, one controlled by Mohammed Younis, were used as brothels and Mahroof Khan’s flat in Kingshaye Road was a regular haunt for schoolgirls skipping lessons, where they had sex and were drinking and smoking cannabis.

The victims had sex in cars with the Ali brothers and Mohammed Choudhrey, or other men, having been driven to various locations in Shropshire and Staffordshire. A country lane near The Wrekin, an empty house at Mill Bank, a car park at Ironbridge, Dothill Park, playing fields at Wrekin College, a farm on the outskirts of Telford and a park at Stoke-on-Trent were identified by the girls.

Right up to the time of his arrest in 2009 Ahdel Ali was having sex with a 13-year-old girl he had raped, while was busy recruiting another 15-year-old to add to his portfolio of girls. Contact with the girl was revealed during Ali’s trial, showing his intention to enlist her “to replace” a child prostitute who became pregnant. Before being discarded, the four-month pregnant teenager was forced by Mubarek Ali to have sex with two restaurant workers because he needed some petrol money.

Ali Sultan, then 26, of Victoria Avenue, Wellington, received a seven-year sentence after admitting sex with a 13-year-old and another teenage girl, and controlling a third girl as a child prostitute.

The court heard how he twice took Girl A to a chip shop where she was paid to have sex with four men. It was said he first targeted the youngest victim when she was 12 and a year later had sex with her in his car. The second girl, who was 15, was taken to a house in Victoria Avenue, near his own home, for sex.

Ahmed, then 40, of Urban Gardens, Wellington, admitted selling a teenage girl for sex to a man in Oakengates. He was jailed for two-and-a-half years. Mohammed Islam Choudhrey, 53, of Solway Drive in Sutton Hill, was jailed for two-and-a-half years after admitting paying to have sex with a teenage prostitute controlled by the Ali brothers.

Mahroof Khan, 35, an unemployed chef, of Caradoc Flats, Kingshaye Road, Wellington, admitted having under-age sex with a teenage girl. Mahrood Khan, of Caradoc Flats, Kingshaye Road, was jailed for underage sex, but walked free after spending more than 900 days on a tag while on bail. Mohammed Younis, 60, had also been jailed the previous December for allowing his flat in Kingsland, Arleston, to be used for prostitution.

During the trials, four experienced judges heard distressing evidence from four young women, who told how they were abused over a two-year period while aged from 13-16.

One young mother told how, as a child, she had been sexually abused or exploited by seven men. She was regularly taken to be sold for sex to workers at a number of restaurants and takeaway outlets in the Telford area.

During the grooming process control over the young victims was exercised by encouraging them to drink alcohol and smoke cannabis, supplying cigarettes and takeaway food and offering lifts and mobile phone top-ups.

Det Chief Insp Neil Jameson, who led a team of more than 50 officers on the investigation, said: "After years of being exploited the girls then went through a huge amount during the course of this investigation, and the trials themselves were then a real ordeal for those that gave evidence."

Operation Chalice identified more than 100 girls who had been targeted by a child sex abuse gang, and it soon became clear that the seven convictions were just the tip of the iceberg.

These fears were confirmed in 2015, when Mohammed Ali Sultan was jailed for a further 11 years at Shrewsbury Crown Court after being found guilty of rape. In 2019, he was before the courts again, where he was jailed for a further eight years after being convicted of rape and three counts of indecent assault. His co-defendant Mohammad Rizwan, then 37, of Mafeking Road, Telford, was jailed for five-and-a-half years for indecent assault. Shafiq Younas, then 35, of Regent Street, Wellington, received a four-and-a-half year term for indecent assault, but was later cleared on appeal.

During that trial, Birmingham Crown Court was told how the victim was 'passed around like a piece of meat'.

Miss Michelle Heeley, prosecuting had told how the vulnerable girl had initially been befriended by pizza delivery driver Tanveer Ahmed – by this time deported to Pakistan for unrelated offences – at a low point in her life.

During the trial, jurors watched video-recorded interviews where the victim told detectives how she had been through two years of 'hell' and had repeatedly contemplated taking her own life as she was traded to different men for 'months and months'.

As concerns about the scale of sex abuse grew, Telford MP Lucy Allan raised the matter in the House of Commons and called for an independent inquiry into the matter in 2016. Telford & Wrekin Council and its partners tried to calm the situation, and assured the then-home secretary that an inquiry was not needed as ‘progress had been made’ and lessons learned.

But in 2018 it was claimed that as many as 1,000 children may have been abused by sex-grooming gangs in the town over a 40-year period. Claims were made that social workers identified the problem in the 1990s, but it was another decade before it launched an investigation. Council staff were said to view abused and trafficked children as 'prostitutes' rather than victims.

Tom Harding, then the superintendant in charge of Telford police, described the claims as sensationalism. He said he had no idea where that figure of 1,000 had come from, and said Telford was no different from any other town.

"Child sexual exploitation wasn’t even a defined category 40 years ago, so I have no idea how they have come to that figure,” said Mr Harding.

“I don’t believe Telford has a discernible problem compared to other towns. "Child sexual exploitation will be taking place all over the country and Telford is not different to anywhere else.

“Something on the scale of what was revealed by Operation Chalice wouldn’t be able to happen today without it being picked up.”

Mr Harding said the police now had officers who worked closely with the local authority to ensure the victims received support.

https://www.shropshirestar.com/news...ing-that-groomed-and-prostituted-young-girls/

 

[MenInG]

A long-awaited report into widespread grooming of children in Telford is due to be published.

An independent inquiry has been examining claims that up to 1,000 children were groomed in the town over a 40-year period.

The inquiry is due to reveal the scale of the scandal and identify if children were let down by the authorities in the town.

Holly Archer now works with other survivors of abuse to support women and children who have suffered. We're not using her real name to protect her identity.

"I was 14 when my abuse actually started," she said.

"And then my phone number was sold by boys my own age to older men who would then harass me and not leave me alone.

"I ended up being trafficked around Telford and the West Midlands and sold to men of every kind and that went on until I was 18."

She said threats of violence left her unable to escape.

"They'd threaten that they would rape my mum or my sisters. There was quite a bit of violence involved."

She recalled the feeling of having no one to ask for help.

"Social services let me down, the mental health team, children's mental health service - they let me down. My GP surgery, the police, because they would see us on the street and just drive past in the middle of the night and not even say anything," she added.

"We were judged as being promiscuous or making those choices ourselves."

'There were guns involved'

Joanne, not her real name, says her abuse began when she was aged around 12.

She dropped out of school and ended up being forced into prostitution by her abusers.

"I was getting arrested by the police. I was seen as a criminal," she said.

Fear of violence left her feeling trapped.

"There were guns involved. Lots of weapons were used on me," she explained.

There are girls in the town who did not survive their abuse.

Lucy Lowe died when she was 16 when her abuser set fire to her home.

Her mother and sister were also killed in the blaze

Taxi driver Azhar Ali Mehmood was jailed in 2001 for their murders but was never prosecuted for sex offences.

Lucy had given birth to his child aged just 14.

The case will be examined as part of the inquiry.

Her uncle, Ed Lowe, believes their deaths should have been prevented.

"I think social services must have known something, the police must have known something," he said.

"Were they turning a blind eye? Were they not doing their job properly? Certainly not. Because of what transpired afterwards, obviously, the death of my brother's three family members, his wife and his two daughters.

"If they'd been noted then that a 14-year-old girl was pregnant, the school should have been involved, social services involved, then the police, it'd have never happened. So they've been failed. And I think they've failed quite a number of people in this town."

Scarlett Jones, also not her real name, said attitudes need to change.

She said: "I was 15 when I gave birth. The stigma that was attached to that even in the hospital that I gave birth in... one of the midwives said to me who are the teddies for, you or the baby?

"School teachers telling me that I was promiscuous and I needed to stop that behaviour. Nobody asked me why, what was going on, what was happening to me.

"What I think is the issue is that the questions are still not being asked today. And these questions should be being asked. We're labelling kids as bad and nobody's asking what's going on."

Sky News has contacted Telford and Wrekin Council and West Mercia Police for a response.

SKY

 

[MenInG]

The names of alleged offenders make my head explode.

 

[Robert]

The names of alleged offenders make my head explode.

Not alleged - tried and sentenced to 18 and 22 years and several others to lesser sentences.

They will have to serve their time on a Vulnerable Prisoner wing, as the cons in so-called “gen pop” would rip them apart.

Good that these scourges are off our streets at last.

 

[MenInG]

Not alleged - tried and sentenced to 18 and 22 years and several others to lesser sentences.

They will have to serve their time on a Vulnerable Prisoner wing, as the cons in so-called “gen pop” would rip them apart.

Good that these scourges are off our streets at last.

A part of me says let it be so.

 

[James]

A part of me says let it be so.

In some ways I have to agree.

 

[Robert]

A part of me says let it be so.

Her Majesty's Prison Service is compassionate towards these guys (and some women, though they are harder to detect). HMPS tries to reform them. They use psychotherapy, and religious ministry. Sometimes, it works.

 

[sweep_shot]

These animals deserve the harshest punishments.

 

[Bewal Express]

These pathetic excuse for Human beings have destroyed young lives. They have found the most vulnerable girls and raped them. I hope they face very long prison sentences. There is another trial in the Midlands after the initial trial was declared a mis trial and that also made painful reading for me. These dirty secrets in our communities in particular have to come out and the culprits have to face long sentences

 

[MenInG]

More than 1,000 children have been groomed in Telford, with obvious child sexual exploitation ignored by the authorities, an independent inquiry has found.

Key agencies dismissed child exploitation as "child prostitution" and blamed children, not the perpetrators.

The report has also concluded that exploitation was not investigated because of nervousness about race.

Teachers and youth workers were discouraged from reporting child exploitation and offenders were emboldened, with exploitation continuing for years.

The Independent Inquiry into Telford Child Exploitation has been investigating widespread grooming in the town from 1989 to the present day.

It found the men would meet girls, either in the street or in their role as taxi drivers or food delivery drivers, and persuade them to be their "girlfriend".

They would give the children lifts, buy alcohol and cigarettes for them and then persuade them to engage in sexual activity. Children were led to believe this was normal behaviour.

Violence and the threat of violence were common.

Girls would be driven to remote locations at night and threatened with abandonment unless they engaged in sexual activity. Gang rape was not unusual.

'Racism' fears because Asian men were involved

The report considered evidence from survivors who believe West Mercia Police failed to take proper action in some investigations in order to avoid being labelled racist, or because the involvement of Asian men meant that to investigate would potentially attract negative headlines.

It concludes that in the 1990s and early 2000s - and even beyond - the force allowed a nervousness about race to become prevalent among officers, and that this led to a reluctance to police parts of Wellington, in particular.

The report found that the murder of Lucy Lowe was used by perpetrators as an ongoing threat to other children.

Lucy died when she was 16, when her abuser set fire to her home. Her mother and sister were also killed in the blaze

Taxi driver Azhar Ali Mehmood was jailed in 2001 for their murders but was never prosecuted for sex offences.

Lucy had given birth to his child aged just 14. She was pregnant at the time of her death.

The inquiry heard evidence that Lucy's murder was well known in one particular school and meant children were intimidated against making complaints.

A witness from the school told the investigation team girls "were all clamming up big time because… Lucy had lost her life. And they knew".

The report found that child sexual exploitation thrived unchecked in Telford for decades. It was not hidden and key agencies were aware of it in detail.

In the 1990s people working with children, including police officers, youth workers and teachers, expressed concern about repeated episodes of children going missing but those concerns were not taken sufficiently seriously by the council or West Mercia Police.

The report makes a series of recommendations for improvement.

'We were judged as being promiscuous'

Holly Archer, not her real name, who was abused from the age of 14 and fought for the inquiry, said: "Social services let me down, the mental health team, children's mental health service - they let me down.

"My GP surgery, the police - because they would see us on the street and just drive past in the middle of the night and not even say anything.

"So actually I think everybody who had a duty of care dismissed themselves of that responsibility for the whole of that time in my life.

"They could have asked me what was happening, and it could have been just something as simple as that, and nobody asked me.

"Lessons I'd like to be learned out of that is that everybody has a little bit of professional curiosity, whether or not it's their responsibility. Everybody's job is to protect children.

"We were judged as being promiscuous or making those choices ourselves.

"When they say they're going to implement the recommendations from the report I want them to implement all the recommendations from the report and I want them to be done properly."

'It was unacceptable, we let you down' - police

In response to the report, West Mercia Police issued an "unequivocal apology to victims and survivors... for past failings by the force".

Assistant Chief Constable Richard Cooper said: "I would like to say sorry. Sorry to the survivors and all those affected by child sexual exploitation in Telford.

"While there were no findings of corruption, our actions fell far short of the help and protection you should have had from us, it was unacceptable, we let you down.

"It is important we now take time to reflect critically and carefully on the context of the report and the recommendations that have been made."

He said the force had made "vast improvements" and now has teams dedicated to preventing and tackling child exploitation.

"We want people who are, or think they are, being exploited or are concerned about child sexual exploitation to report this to us. We will listen and we will act on any information given to us," said Mr Cooper.

Telford & Wrekin Council also apologised "wholeheartedly to victims and survivors for the pain they have gone through" and called child sexual exploitation a "vile crime".

It said the inquiry had noted it had made "significant improvements in recent years" and said it was already carrying out many of the report's recommendations.

A government spokesperson called the abuse in Telford "appalling" and said children were let down across the board.

"Public bodies, their leaders, and frontline professionals must be unafraid of confronting criminality, including child abuse, no matter the race, ethnicity, religion, or other characteristics of perpetrators or their victims," a statement said.

"We welcome the recognition in today's report that those services have improved. But we are determined that previous mistakes must never be repeated and we will not hesitate to take further national action if required."

SKY

 

[MenInG]

'Racism' fears because Asian men were involved

The report considered evidence from survivors who believe West Mercia Police failed to take proper action in some investigations in order to avoid being labelled racist, or because the involvement of Asian men meant that to investigate would potentially attract negative headlines.

It concludes that in the 1990s and early 2000s - and even beyond - the force allowed a nervousness about race to become prevalent among officers, and that this led to a reluctance to police parts of Wellington, in particular.

==

Above from SKY report

This is incredible.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

This is beyond comprehension

 

[KingKhanWC]

Should be given the death penalty imo.

Sadly there are so many children who are being abused. The abuse comes from all types of people, right from the Royals, TV , Music to men trafficking young girls.

Tim Westwood is also being accused in a huge way atm.

 

[sweep_shot]

Should be given the death penalty imo.

Sadly there are so many children who are being abused. The abuse comes from all types of people, right from the Royals, TV , Music to men trafficking young girls.

Tim Westwood is also being accused in a huge way atm.

Do you think all of these are connected? There have been multiple high profile child abuse cases over the past few decades (celebrities, politicians etc.).

Reminds me of Pizzagate conspiracy theory.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Do you think all of these are connected? There have been multiple high profile child abuse cases over the past few decades (celebrities, politicians etc.).

Reminds me of Pizzagate conspiracy theory.

I think many cases in the celeb world are connected in a way, as it was pretty common and easy to get away with. It was clear as day Jimmy Saville was a predator but was protected to some extent. Celebs feel poweful, important and the evil ones like to overpower children.

These other peado gangs esp in the Asian community is also due to them getting away with it. They prey on young children who are usually from broken homes, poor families and induce them with cheap alcohol and drugs.

Of course its the peados fault but the parents (if any) of these kids who drink and do drugs should also take some responsibly for not protecting them.

 

[James]

Of course its the peados fault but the parents (if any) of these kids who drink and do drugs should also take some responsibly for not protecting them.

I worry that many of the young victims of these monsters are not being cared for properly for their parents, and that their parents have lost interest in them. The parents in some cases may even be addicted to drugs and a part of these abusive gangs themselves.

 

[KingKhanWC]

I worry that many of the young victims of these monsters are not being cared for properly for their parents, and that their parents have lost interest in them. The parents in some cases may even be addicted to drugs and a part of these abusive gangs themselves.

Its tragic, some of these kids were suffering at home and these monsters took advantage. However there are others who live in a normal household, lead a normal life (ie school etc) but when out they are introduced to drink and drugs, which gets them hooked eventually leading them to exposure to these peados.

Imo its difficult to stop until society improves inc tougher sentences for such evil criminals. But I also feel a lot of the elite are also involved so tougher punishments is unlikely.

 

[Stewie]

What the heck is going on the UK, why do so many crimes feature Pakistani expats? I am so surprised. We dont have this problem here in the US, a vast vast majority of us here are valuable, productive and respected members of society.

 

[SpiritOf1903]

I think many cases in the celeb world are connected in a way, as it was pretty common and easy to get away with. It was clear as day Jimmy Saville was a predator but was protected to some extent. Celebs feel poweful, important and the evil ones like to overpower children.

These other peado gangs esp in the Asian community is also due to them getting away with it. They prey on young children who are usually from broken homes, poor families and induce them with cheap alcohol and drugs.

Of course its the peados fault but the parents (if any) of these kids who drink and do drugs should also take some responsibly for not protecting them.

They're mostly in care and are treated as disposable. It's these animals and their retrograde upbringing that is the real issue

 

[KingKhanWC]

They're mostly in care and are treated as disposable. It's these animals and their retrograde upbringing that is the real issue

Its not even their upbrining. Most come from decent religious households whose parents worked day and night. These are predators who see vunerable kids and take advantage due to evil inside them. Drugs and alcohol play a part in almost every case.

As I wrote earlier child abuse is a huge problem in the world in all races and communities.

After Esptein and a high profile peado ring with a temple for such abuse, shows how big this issue is worldwide.

There is only way to reduce this...... once found guilty stand them up against a wall and shoot them in public.

 

[pakistani pride]

Should be given the death penalty imo.

Sadly there are so many children who are being abused. The abuse comes from all types of people, right from the Royals, TV , Music to men trafficking young girls.

Tim Westwood is also being accused in a huge way atm.

Royals?!
Can you explain.

 

[James]

Royals?!
Can you explain.

Allegedly, Prince Andrew.

 

[MenInG]

Its not even their upbrining. Most come from decent religious households whose parents worked day and night. These are predators who see vunerable kids and take advantage due to evil inside them. Drugs and alcohol play a part in almost every case.

As I wrote earlier child abuse is a huge problem in the world in all races and communities.

After Esptein and a high profile peado ring with a temple for such abuse, shows how big this issue is worldwide.

There is only way to reduce this...... once found guilty stand them up against a wall and shoot them in public.

Lets not beat about the bush - The names of these criminals and their obvious Pakistan origins are very worrying.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Lets not beat about the bush - The names of these criminals and their obvious Pakistan origins are very worrying.

Most are British with a Pakistani background.

Its nothing to do with their religion or ethnicity but their evil minds.

Muslims and Pakistani culture is not alcohol, drugs and fornication let alone abusing kids.

The biggest peado ring in history has recently been uncovered but yet most of its details are still hidden. Your argument MIG would mean we should call them WHITE English and American Christian or Atheist peados.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Royals?!
Can you explain.

Prince Andrew.

 

[Zaz]

There needs to be some introspection in the pakistani community why this keeps happening

The desi parents are failing in their duty towards their children and they arent getting a standard of upbringing that leads them aways from the paths of crime drink and drugs

 

[MenInG]

Most are British with a Pakistani background.

Its nothing to do with their religion or ethnicity but their evil minds.

Muslims and Pakistani culture is not alcohol, drugs and fornication let alone abusing kids.

The biggest peado ring in history has recently been uncovered but yet most of its details are still hidden. Your argument MIG would mean we should call them WHITE English and American Christian or Atheist peados.

No bro

I am saying as people of that community we should look at ourselves and try and understand how we can prevent this from staining OUR side of the fence.

This story and the Rochdale ones are UK based and concern us.

 

[KingKhanWC]

No bro

I am saying as people of that community we should look at ourselves and try and understand how we can prevent this from staining OUR side of the fence.

This story and the Rochdale ones are UK based and concern us.

Its nothing to do with us brother. We have no responsibility or any blame just because these evil people happen to have the same background as us.

If their faith and culture was of drink drugs, fornication I would then agree but this is more British culture. Their passport is also British , their language too. So imo they are British peados.

The only issue I have is sometimes such things are either hidden in this community or arent reported by others. But this would also be the case in the Royals or Jewish communities etc.

 

[Champ_Pal]

If 1000 kids are groomed, then the culprits are not acting alone or a small bunch of people. There must be a huge Pedophile ring. Almost all people close to the culprits must know about what these people were doing. They just chose to remain silent.

 

[Bewal Express]

I worry that many of the young victims of these monsters are not being cared for properly for their parents, and that their parents have lost interest in them. The parents in some cases may even be addicted to drugs and a part of these abusive gangs themselves.

The parents neglected them and those guys that showed interest, showed predatory interest and raped and abused them. These were damaged children and they will be even more damaged for the rest of their lives.

 

[KingKhanWC]

If 1000 kids are groomed, then the culprits are not acting alone or a small bunch of people. There must be a huge Pedophile ring. Almost all people close to the culprits must know about what these people were doing. They just chose to remain silent.

Its not that type of ring. These are men who pick up vulnerable kids in their areas, give them free booze, drugs, drive them around in cars to take advantage. The rings are small where some sickos will take the kids to another town and gain money from their fellow peados.

But yes your overall point is spot on. If anyone knows or suspects anyone of abusing a child or taking any advantage, they must report this to the police even if their own family members.

 

[Robert]

What the heck is going on the UK, why do so many crimes feature Pakistani expats? I am so surprised. We dont have this problem here in the US, a vast vast majority of us here are valuable, productive and respected members of society.

Several factors…..

These guys tend to have low education and work in the night-time economy (taxis, takeaways).

Can’t get at girls from their own community so predate on at-risk white girls (chaotic home lives, no strong familial role models, low school attendance, possible drug and alcohol issues).

Cultural stereotype that white girls have loose morals and are therefore “asking for it”.

 

[Robert]

'Racism' fears because Asian men were involved

The report considered evidence from survivors who believe West Mercia Police failed to take proper action in some investigations in order to avoid being labelled racist, or because the involvement of Asian men meant that to investigate would potentially attract negative headlines.

It concludes that in the 1990s and early 2000s - and even beyond - the force allowed a nervousness about race to become prevalent among officers, and that this led to a reluctance to police parts of Wellington, in particular.

==

Above from SKY report

This is incredible.

This is a widely held belief which I think has no bearing on reality.

In many cases, police forces did not press charges as the alleged victims and witnesses had low communication skills and could be likely discredited in a court of law. The police and CPS put their efforts into where they are likely to get results - that is to say, criminal convictions.

Moreover agencies such as schools / NHS / child services have not always communicated with each other effectively so evidence is sometimes not presented.

Most such agencies have safeguarding policies now so out of the evil of the paedophile rings, some good has come as current and future children are better protected.

 

[dildilpak]

Its nothing to do with us brother. We have no responsibility or any blame just because these evil people happen to have the same background as us.

If their faith and culture was of drink drugs, fornication I would then agree but this is more British culture. Their passport is also British , their language too. So imo they are British peados.

The only issue I have is sometimes such things are either hidden in this community or arent reported by others. But this would also be the case in the Royals or Jewish communities etc.

No, this has got nothing to do with western culture but an offset of Pakistani patriarchy & thinking that white girls have loose morals while their own women have to be hidden behind the burqa. And all of this stems from a false sense of religious & moralistic superiority when in reality these guys are lowest of the low.

 

[KingKhanWC]

No, this has got nothing to do with western culture but an offset of Pakistani patriarchy & thinking that white girls have loose morals while their own women have to be hidden behind the burqa. And all of this stems from a false sense of religious & moralistic superiority when in reality these guys are lowest of the low.

Youre not from the UK so ill give you benefit of doubt.

Go to any town in the UK and you will see young girls being groomed by various men from all backgrounds, usual tactics.

Its not Pakistani culture to drink, drugs, fornicate and abuse young girls. Apart from the last , its British culture.

 

[James]

Youre not from the UK so ill give you benefit of doubt.

Go to any town in the UK and you will see young girls being groomed by various men from all backgrounds, usual tactics.

Its not Pakistani culture to drink, drugs, fornicate and abuse young girls. Apart from the last , its British culture.

We have now reached the stage of very general statements being made in this post, I think they could be refined somewhat.

 

[dildilpak]

Youre not from the UK so ill give you benefit of doubt.

Go to any town in the UK and you will see young girls being groomed by various men from all backgrounds, usual tactics.

Its not Pakistani culture to drink, drugs, fornicate and abuse young girls. Apart from the last , its British culture.

Western culture doesnt teach anyone to sexually groom kids as young as 13 & 14. And being sexually active or drinking liquor is not a license to be termed promiscous & be considered as fair game which these gangs in Huddersfield, Rochdale or Telford think they are.

Your statement is exactly the problem i see in many British Pakistanis - living in a Western society & benefiting from the social benefits largesse but considering their morals, religion & culture weak compared to your own. Americans & Canadian Pakistanis who are better integrated into the local society dont have similar issues.

 

[sweep_shot]

I feel pedophiles don't get the required punishments. They need harsher punishments.

I personally would love to see them executed by firing squads. They do not deserve human rights if they are okay with harming minors.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

There needs to be some introspection in the pakistani community why this keeps happening

The desi parents are failing in their duty towards their children and they arent getting a standard of upbringing that leads them aways from the paths of crime drink and drugs

It's a free society here, once your kids are 16, there's only so much influence you can have on them. Same goes for the parents of the girls who are getting abused. Usually they are the low income working class types who hang around street corners and exposing themselves to dangerous situations.

It's a perfect storm of too much freedom being exploited by predators who have spotted an opportunity to profit from it. Blaming parents or communities isn't the answer. Either curtail freedoms for younger people and put them under some form of curfew until over 16, or hit the perpetrators hard when they are caught. Using flimsy excuses like being scared of accusations of being called racists is passing the buck. No one cares about racism in cases like this.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Western culture doesnt teach anyone to sexually groom kids as young as 13 & 14. And being sexually active or drinking liquor is not a license to be termed promiscous & be considered as fair game which these gangs in Huddersfield, Rochdale or Telford think they are.

Your statement is exactly the problem i see in many British Pakistanis - living in a Western society & benefiting from the social benefits largesse but considering their morals, religion & culture weak compared to your own. Americans & Canadian Pakistanis who are better integrated into the local society dont have similar issues.

Ironically the same sort of generalising of a racial community that the perpetrators are prone to themselves when they think of white girls in low income areas as easy targets because they are easy to pick up. Unless you actually live in Britain then you really shouldn't presume to know how it works here.

We used to have this sort of generalising of black communities as criminals previously, but that would never wash today. Well it wouldn't in Britain, maybe it does in New York.

 

[MenInG]

Ironically the same sort of generalising of a racial community that the perpetrators are prone to themselves when they think of white girls in low income areas as easy targets because they are easy to pick up. Unless you actually live in Britain then you really shouldn't presume to know how it works here.

We used to have this sort of generalising of black communities as criminals previously, but that would never wash today. Well it wouldn't in Britain, maybe it does in New York.

Look at the names of people involved in the biggest scandals in Britain.

No one is generalizing but then we need to ask the question why Pakistani origin people are involved in these crimes.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Look at the names of people involved in the biggest scandals in Britain.

No one is generalizing but then we need to ask the question why Pakistani origin people are involved in these crimes.

That depends if you can come up with some constructive answer. I haven't seen any yet, other than the one I suggested which would be curfews under a certain age, and/or really harsh punishments for sex traficking and grooming. Heads need to roll at the police force and council offices as well.

But if you have a better suggestion I will of course listen. Looking at the names isn't really a solution in my book.

 

[Bewal Express]

No bro

I am saying as people of that community we should look at ourselves and try and understand how we can prevent this from staining OUR side of the fence.

This story and the Rochdale ones are UK based and concern us.

They are part of our community but the reality is that they are individuals that commit these horrors away from the public eye. The single biggest cause of these problems is the incredible proliferation in PK drug dealers, our community is littered with them. The meeting between drug dealers and victims happens through the transaction of drugs and bling that attracts vulnerable girls to these pig ugly guys.

As community we have mostly given up on education, our young boys talk like rappers and words like fam and Wagwan are just as likely to be used by our boys as those from Afro Caribbean backgrounds.

 

[MenInG]

That depends if you can come up with some constructive answer. I haven't seen any yet, other than the one I suggested which would be curfews under a certain age, and/or really harsh punishments for sex traficking and grooming. Heads need to roll at the police force and council offices as well.

But if you have a better suggestion I will of course listen. Looking at the names isn't really a solution in my book.

I feel parenting has something to do with this.

I Am also not sure what educational standards these criminals attained but am guessing not that much.

The fact that I am concentrating on these names is to try and recognize issues in the community and we should not shy away from that.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Also it's worth repeating, the low income areas where this sort of stuff goes on is not how many people outside of Britain imagine the country to be. These are deprived areas rife with drugs and alcohol abuse, and usually terrible home lives for the victims. Most people here probably have no idea of how people live in these areas.

 

[sweep_shot]

Either curtail freedoms for younger people and put them under some form of curfew until over 16, or hit the perpetrators hard when they are caught.

I agree with this. I think latter is better.

Short-term solution would be to punish these criminals harshly. Deport them if they are immigrants. Death penalty can be used for some cases.

Long-term solution would be to raise awareness. People should learn about the consequences.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I feel parenting has something to do with this.

I Am also not sure what educational standards these criminals attained but am guessing not that much.

The fact that I am concentrating on these names is to try and recognize issues in the community and we should not shy away from that.

No one is shying away from it though, I am just asking what the constructive solutions could be. Thinking it might be parenting is really no more than speculation which a person might while away some time discussing with his neighbour over the garden fence. Like I already said, parents have only so much power in a western country once a kid is over the age of 16. I very much doubt the parents are teaching their kids to go out and traffic young girls for sex.

 

[dildilpak]

That depends if you can come up with some constructive answer. I haven't seen any yet, other than the one I suggested which would be curfews under a certain age, and/or really harsh punishments for sex traficking and grooming. Heads need to roll at the police force and council offices as well.

But if you have a better suggestion I will of course listen. Looking at the names isn't really a solution in my book.

You might be intentionally closing your eyes at those names, but that wont belie the facts. If these were to be Hindu/Sikh names, would have loved to hear your opinion on those!

And in terms of deterrents, how about deporting the families of these depraved individuals? Sending them back to wherever they come from would put the fear of God in these criminals more than anything else!

 

[Bewal Express]

I feel parenting has something to do with this.

I Am also not sure what educational standards these criminals attained but am guessing not that much.

The fact that I am concentrating on these names is to try and recognize issues in the community and we should not shy away from that.

From my experience of 25 years in education, 80% of our kids are not only failing school, they attain next to no skills after leaving school. Over 50% of the kids I have taught have become taxi drivers with no direct tax to pay and large cash in hand business. Your average taxi drivers take home pay is nearly your average skilled workers and this has sent a terrible message to the young about the value of education.

 

[Bewal Express]

You might be intentionally closing your eyes at those names, but that wont belie the facts. If these were to be Hindu/Sikh names, would have loved to hear your opinion on those!

And in terms of deterrents, how about deporting the families of these depraved individuals? Sending them back to wherever they come from would put the fear of God in these criminals more than anything else!

Are you saying Hindus and Sikhs dont rape people?

 

[dildilpak]

Are you saying Hindus and Sikhs dont rape people?

I am referring to these grooming cases, nothing else. We all know the biases of people in this group though.

 

[Bewal Express]

No one is shying away from it though, I am just asking what the constructive solutions could be. Thinking it might be parenting is really no more than speculation which a person might while away some time discussing with his neighbour over the garden fence. Like I already said, parents have only so much power in a western country once a kid is over the age of 16. I very much doubt the parents are teaching their kids to go out and traffic young girls for sex.

If you have to explicitly tell your kids that is wrong then you have already failed as parent. Many of Our parents are truly awful, they are happy for the money to flow in without any care for how its earnt and if you look at how the abusers and the abused meet, the drugs are the common denominator

 

[Bewal Express]

I am referring to these grooming cases, nothing else. We all know the biases of people in this group though.

But your friends in the Hindutuva join conversations like these with a one point agenda. And we all know what it is.

 

[dildilpak]

But your friends in the Hindutuva join conversations like these with a one point agenda. And we all know what it is.

Excuse me, when did i ever imply i am a Hindu? I am a Pakistani-origin American, but I just get furious by people denying whats in front of their own eyes while hypocritically condemning others for the same acts.

 

[KingKhanWC]

Western culture doesnt teach anyone to sexually groom kids as young as 13 & 14. And being sexually active or drinking liquor is not a license to be termed promiscous & be considered as fair game which these gangs in Huddersfield, Rochdale or Telford think they are.

Your statement is exactly the problem i see in many British Pakistanis - living in a Western society & benefiting from the social benefits largesse but considering their morals, religion & culture weak compared to your own. Americans & Canadian Pakistanis who are better integrated into the local society dont have similar issues.

Your mindset is very similar to the far right.

Everyone takes benefits, everyone pays taxes, this has nothing to do with the topic.

You are confusing evil criminals with people who may fear God, they dont.

By your logic, White mature men are the most active in child abuse is because of their race and culture. Your logic is Indian men who commit the most crimes in the east do because of their ethnicity and culture.

When you look for reasons you are giving these people an excuse.

People from all backgrounds commit these heinous crimes. A simple check of world history will teach you a lot.

 

[MenInG]

If you have to explicitly tell your kids that is wrong then you have already failed as parent. Many of Our parents are truly awful, they are happy for the money to flow in without any care for how its earnt and if you look at how the abusers and the abused meet, the drugs are the common denominator

Nailed it.

 

[Robert]

Also it's worth repeating, the low income areas where this sort of stuff goes on is not how many people outside of Britain imagine the country to be. These are deprived areas rife with drugs and alcohol abuse, and usually terrible home lives for the victims. Most people here probably have no idea of how people live in these areas.

True. Though there was the Oxford paedophile gang too. That’s a well-off town

 

[Bewal Express]

Excuse me, when did i ever imply i am a Hindu? I am a Pakistani-origin American, but I just get furious by people denying whats in front of their own eyes while hypocritically condemning others for the same acts.

I apologise. I read many Hindutuva post on right wing websites and they have one agenda

 

[Saj]

If you have to explicitly tell your kids that is wrong then you have already failed as parent. Many of Our parents are truly awful, they are happy for the money to flow in without any care for how its earnt and if you look at how the abusers and the abused meet, the drugs are the common denominator

The problem is that many parents are in on this. The fathers have been doing this and the mothers just turn a blind eye to it.

If kids see their fathers doing such things then they will feel it's fine for them to do it.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

The names of alleged offenders make my head explode.

Did they shout "Allahu Akbar" at the court verdict?
I wonder one such group with similar kinda names, did it in Netherlands.

 

[Bewal Express]

Did they shout "Allahu Akbar" at the court verdict?
I wonder one such group with similar kinda names, did it in Netherlands.

These losers suddenly remember Allah when prison is inevitable. They don't remember Allah when they having sex and taking drugs. Pathetic losers

 

[Bewal Express]

The problem is that many parents are in on this. The fathers have been doing this and the mothers just turn a blind eye to it.

If kids see their fathers doing such things then they will feel it's fine for them to do it.

You are right. It's the anything goes culture and they feel no shame. Money trumps everything.

 

[hitthestump]

There needs to be some introspection in the pakistani community why this keeps happening

The desi parents are failing in their duty towards their children and they arent getting a standard of upbringing that leads them aways from the paths of crime drink and drugs

I don't think it's that simple at all. The reasons why Pakistani men are so heavily implicated in these crimes is going to be multi-faceted. I think it's a combination of some or all of the below:

- Pakistani men desire white women.

- Pakistani men have questionable morals, particularly surrounding white women.

- Pakistan men seek to be controlling over their women. White women their own age won't tolerate them, so they target children instead.

- The white girls were all vulnerable, either from poor households or in care. This is very important.

- The worries about racism meant the required state intervention never occured.

- The tight knit nature of Asian communities failed to blow the whistle.

 

[Bewal Express]

I don't think it's that simple at all. The reasons why Pakistani men are so heavily implicated in these crimes is going to be multi-faceted. I think it's a combination of some or all of the below:

- Pakistani men desire white women.

- Pakistani men have questionable morals, particularly surrounding white women.

- Pakistan men seek to be controlling over their women. White women their own age won't tolerate them, so they target children instead.

- The white girls were all vulnerable, either from poor households or in care. This is very important.

- The worries about racism meant the required state intervention never occured.

- The tight knit nature of Asian communities failed to blow the whistle.

I am a PK man and I think you generalisation is racist. We don't all seek white women, we don't seek to control our women, and we don't target children. As bad as it is, the number people involved will in the whole country will be less than 200. That is a horrific number but they don't represent PK men. Its like saying that the horrific rapes Ind represent all Ind Men.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

You might be intentionally closing your eyes at those names, but that wont belie the facts. If these were to be Hindu/Sikh names, would have loved to hear your opinion on those!

And in terms of deterrents, how about deporting the families of these depraved individuals? Sending them back to wherever they come from would put the fear of God in these criminals more than anything else!

You said in that post I replied to that this is a Pakistani British thing, and that US-Canadian Pakistanis are better integrated with the local communities and they don't have such issues.

I am interested as to why is that? Do you have any theories?

 

[Colorblind Genius]

These losers suddenly remember Allah when prison is inevitable. They don't remember Allah when they having sex and taking drugs. Pathetic losers

More of an "ultra munafiqs" together with being losers.
These wolves in a sheep's cloak shout religious slogans to tell the world that they are innocent and righteous.

 

[Technics 1210]

First of all, all I can say is it's sickening to read such news and whoever is caught and responsible should be tortured to death. Screw human rights on this topic.

Secondly, have any of you living in the UK come across the YouTube channels on Peado Vigilantes? The ones where they have decoys and catch predators in the act?

If the answer is yes, then you will know the majority of those caught are white males, and they are caught in the 1000s each year. Far more than the total number of British Pakistanis caught. Individual predators however do not make the news, rings do.

There's a difference between single predators, and peado rings. Moreover, you only have to look at the recent Epstein/Maxwell case to realise that Pakistani peado rings, do not hold a candle to the more sophisticated peado rings run by rich and powerful white males.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The problem is that many parents are in on this. The fathers have been doing this and the mothers just turn a blind eye to it.

If kids see their fathers doing such things then they will feel it's fine for them to do it.

I think you worded that quite badly, initially on reading the first sentence I thought you meant that the parents were in cahoots with their sons in grooming young girls and they were in on it together. Even so, I doubt any father would be indulging in paedophilia openly for the kids to be learning by example.

 

[Stewie]

Most are British with a Pakistani background.

Its nothing to do with their religion or ethnicity but their evil minds.

Muslims and Pakistani culture is not alcohol, drugs and fornication let alone abusing kids.

The biggest peado ring in history has recently been uncovered but yet most of its details are still hidden. Your argument MIG would mean we should call them WHITE English and American Christian or Atheist peados.

This is akin to burying your head in the sand. Booze, drugs and fornication are becoming quite popular and common in Pakistani culture. I dont know where have you been living. Its pooh poohed in public and officially, but it all goes on behind the doors everywhere.

Also there seems to be a big problem with Pakistani expats in the UK. The criminal element there seems to be taking a strong foot hold. If its not this stuff, its religious extremism. The Pakistani expats in the UK mostly come from humble, dehati background, and the lack of education and inability to adapt accordingly and the twisted religious factor there have all combined to result in this worrying situation.
You cannot sweep this problem under the rug, unfortunately.

 

[Stewie]

You said in that post I replied to that this is a Pakistani British thing, and that US-Canadian Pakistanis are better integrated with the local communities and they don't have such issues.

I am interested as to why is that? Do you have any theories?

I do and I think its pretty solid. Most immigration North America came from majority urban educated or business class folks. Lots of doctors/academics/engineers/businessmen etc. They always tend to adapt more.

Now a big big majority of Pakistani immigrants in the UK are from rural landlord agricultural class, with not much professional education and very close roots to the typical madrasa religious education. This can also be evidenced by the alarming cases of extremist element there in the mosques, because the so-called mulla being pulled there are also from the same area as the expats. I see a lot of "hamarey gaon ka banda hai, issko help kar do yahan set karney mein" types in the UK.

You have them here in the US as well but not in such a large percentage as the UK.

 

[Varun]

These losers suddenly remember Allah when prison is inevitable. They don't remember Allah when they having sex and taking drugs. Pathetic losers

It doesn't matter if they remember Allah now. Allah won't care much for them after they have crossed the line in such a brazen and illegal fashion.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

I do and I think its pretty solid. Most immigration North America came from majority urban educated or business class folks. Lots of doctors/academics/engineers/businessmen etc. They always tend to adapt more.

Now a big big majority of Pakistani immigrants in the UK are from rural landlord agricultural class, with not much professional education and very close roots to the typical madrasa religious education. This can also be evidenced by the alarming cases of extremist element there in the mosques, because the so-called mulla being pulled there are also from the same area as the expats. I see a lot of "hamarey gaon ka banda hai, issko help kar do yahan set karney mein" types in the UK.

You have them here in the US as well but not in such a large percentage as the UK.

Agree with most of that, so in essence we are talking about uneducated yokels who's family probably migrated from really backward regions of Pakistan. If you ever watched The Wire which is based in some God-forsaken towers in Baltimore, you see feral black youths living similar pathetic lives fuelled by drugs and alcohol.

I can guarantee you the white girls in these incidents will be from the white version of low income, poorly educated families living in the region. So when they are hanging around street corners, getting picked up and plied with drink by older men, is it because they are white? Similarly, we know there is a sex trade in East Asia where European men will spend plenty of money travelling to buy the services of underage girls away from the public eye. Is it because they are white?

 

[Justcrazy]

Should be given the death penalty imo.

Sadly there are so many children who are being abused. The abuse comes from all types of people, right from the Royals, TV , Music to men trafficking young girls.

Tim Westwood is also being accused in a huge way atm.

Yes , they should be given death penalty.

 

[Technics 1210]

Agree with most of that, so in essence we are talking about uneducated yokels who's family probably migrated from really backward regions of Pakistan. If you ever watched The Wire which is based in some God-forsaken towers in Baltimore, you see feral black youths living similar pathetic lives fuelled by drugs and alcohol.

I can guarantee you the white girls in these incidents will be from the white version of low income, poorly educated families living in the region. So when they are hanging around street corners, getting picked up and plied with drink by older men, is it because they are white? Similarly, we know there is a sex trade in East Asia where European men will spend plenty of money travelling to buy the services of underage girls away from the public eye. Is it because they are white?

100%

This then goes back to a main point, upbringings.

Parenting is vital too. There is concrete evidence which proves disproportionate levels of crime within black communities is down to the lack of father. The same applies here, white girls from low income families need support and guidance from their parents.

 

[KingKhanWC]

This is akin to burying your head in the sand. Booze, drugs and fornication are becoming quite popular and common in Pakistani culture. I dont know where have you been living. Its pooh poohed in public and officially, but it all goes on behind the doors everywhere.

Also there seems to be a big problem with Pakistani expats in the UK. The criminal element there seems to be taking a strong foot hold. If its not this stuff, its religious extremism. The Pakistani expats in the UK mostly come from humble, dehati background, and the lack of education and inability to adapt accordingly and the twisted religious factor there have all combined to result in this worrying situation.
You cannot sweep this problem under the rug, unfortunately.

By the same logic Indian men IN India are prone to rape because they are Indian.

Blacks in America are more prone to crime because they are black.

White Elites in the west are more prone to paedophilia because they are white elites.

Btw nobody calls themselves ex pats lol. But you're the chap who was telling others to get vaccinated but later realised you being vaccinated are as much as risk to your elderly parents as those who are not. Release this sheepish mentality you live by watching CNN and such nonsense and start to learn to think for yourself.

 

[KingKhanWC]

100%

This then goes back to a main point, upbringings.

Parenting is vital too. There is concrete evidence which proves disproportionate levels of crime within black communities is down to the lack of father. The same applies here, white girls from low income families need support and guidance from their parents.

The social family fabric is not common anylonger. Over 40% of marriages end in divorce. People have multiple partners and sometimes kids with numerous partners. Kids are left to rot in the streets by such parents with governments not providing facilities.

Tbh morality doesnt really exist in the Liberal west, its all about desires. Reason why in some parts of Europe a MALE adult can have LAWFUL sexual relations with a child. This coupled with other issues in society allow evil men to take advantage.

Harsh punishments for child abusers is a must but also if you look after your kid, he/she will not be prone to such abuse, pretty simple really.

 

[Technics 1210]

The social family fabric is not common anylonger. Over 40% of marriages end in divorce. People have multiple partners and sometimes kids with numerous partners. Kids are left to rot in the streets by such parents with governments not providing facilities.

Tbh morality doesnt really exist in the Liberal west, its all about desires. Reason why in some parts of Europe a MALE adult can have LAWFUL sexual relations with a child. This coupled with other issues in society allow evil men to take advantage.

Harsh punishments for child abusers is a must but also if you look after your kid, he/she will not be prone to such abuse, pretty simple really.

The age of consent in France is 15.

Liberalism spreading its wings.

'My body my choice' as liberals say. No wonder support for abortion is rife among liberalism.

 

[Robert]

Yes , they should be given death penalty.

That thinking is predicated on the need for personal revenge. Bloke called Jesus threw revenge out 2000 years ago.

Prison can, and often does reform this type of offender. So Prison Officers have told me. Psychotherapy can work, and indentured clerics and imams have effected positive changes in behaviour.

 

[KingKhanWC]

The age of consent in France is 15.

Liberalism spreading its wings.

'My body my choice' as liberals say. No wonder support for abortion is rife among liberalism.

In many other European nations its even lower at 14! So a 17 year old male man can lawfully have sexual relations with a 14 year who may not have passed puberty.

Liberals have made laws to suit their own sick desires, paedophile is common in Europe with it being legal .

 

[Technics 1210]

In many other European nations its even lower at 14! So a 17 year old male man can lawfully have sexual relations with a 14 year who may not have passed puberty.

Liberals have made laws to suit their own sick desires, paedophile is common in Europe with it being legal .

Give it a few years and these liberals will declare Pedophilia is natural like homosexually with a genetic deposition.