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Do Bangladesh still deserve to be tagged as "minnows"?

shaz619 said:
They had a decent world cup in AUS though and reached the QF, I just seem them as a decent ODI unit in general or else I'd have more confidence about us qualifying for the WC automatically. They're in the CT ahead of WI to, Pak have had a really bad run in ODI's in general and we're ranked below them as it stands if we call them really bad then what does that make our team; we have to give the little jobber some respek which has been earned. Both teams at their best pak and bd are capable of winning in any conditions although the bd unit is more stable but we've made some pivotal decisions in our little rebuilding phase and hopefully it works out for the best
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Yea man as things stand our ODI team is abysmal. However, I would still back Pak to win an ODI series vs Bangladesh if it was taking place anywhere outside Bangladesh. Anyway - I'm going off topic here.

As things stand - yes, I agree - Bangladesh are doing well and they had a decent WC. However, I think we can both agree that as far as this thread is concerned yes AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME they are still minnows. They look promising but there is still significant improvement needed if they wanna shake that tag off - especially in Test & T20 cricket.

Also - just to clarify - a correction to my previous posts. I just realised that I wasn't using Statsguru correctly. Bangladesh have won more away games compared to whats indicated above. In total they have won 6 away games since the start of 2015. 4 games against associate teams (Afg, Scot, Neth & Oman), an ODI VS Eng and a Test VS SL. They do however still have a the 3rd worst W/L ratio in away games during this period (after UAE & Nepal)
 
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As Bangladesh improves, does the other team stay stagnant? Do they not unearth Rabada, Braithwaite, Raval, Sarjeels, Mendis's? It is not that easy to catch up overnight.

Everything has a process and it takes time. If you are sincere you will see success. The gap was so big it took longer than what everyone thought because of SL and ZIm's initial success. They already had a cricketing structure before the test status was given. We didn't. Then the structure that was created was a picnic outing, one city based for minimum of 7 years. Little by little, one brick at a time, it grew. We are thankful to ICC, and ALL of her members for the continuing support at the DARKEST of times. Now we can say we are competing. The gap has narrowed considerably. We can hold our grounds at home. Still some ways to go be competitive in overseas trips and I know that.

Initially Minnow tag was for the associates. So if someone says Minnows it refers to the associates or level of associates. We have graduated from that ranks now. That is why Bangladeshis feel cheated when someone labels us with that. We feel disrespected and that is why it is hurtful. If your intent is to hurt us keep doing it. It works.

So I give you a name, soon you will be a fan of. Azmir Ahmed. He may be the one to take that tag off once for all in near future. Have a great day and thank you for reading the post.
 
TalhaSyed said:
Oh yea absolutely.

With the current state of world cricket - no team is expected to win away from home, specially in Test cricket, so it will be unfair to expect Bangladesh to be any different.

However, Bangladesh need to win - IMO particularly at Test cricket - more often at home, and be more competitive away from home, for an extended period of time, to not be considered minnows.

Now, I know "being competitive" is a very subjective way of measuring something, so let me elaborate on that.

The fact is that since the 1st of Jan 2015 (which is when Bang really started doing well at home), they have only won 1 match away from home (in any format) - last weeks Test win VS SL.

The only teams who have a worse W/L ratio away from home in the last 2 years are Oman & U.A.E. All the other teams have won more matches (bar Nepal who have won the same number of matches) and have a better W/L ratio away from home than Bangladesh - including the likes of Zimbabwe, Ireland, Afghanistan, Netherlands, Scotland, Hong Kong and P.N.G

Now I know the likes of Afg, Ire, Scot, PNG etc. are not playing against 'the big teams', but that stat shows very clearly why Bang are still considered minnows in the 'big team league', and how poor their performance away from home conditions has been.

They have played 13 games away from home since 2015 and in those 13 they have won 1 against SL last week. They were competitive in 1 T20 game VS India where they lost by 1 run because they started celebrating too early, couldn't score 1 run to win off the last 3 deliveries and lost 3 wickets in the last 3 balls. Apart from that in the other 11 games, they only lost 1 game by less than 47 runs (27 run defeat in a T20 VS NZ) and 1 game by less than 6 wickets (3 wicket defeat in a ODI VS NZ).

I wouldn't deem that 'competitive' by any stretch of the imagination.

Meanwhile you add to that the fact that in Test & T20 cricket, their over all record (as posted in post #69) in the last 2 years is pretty poor and nothing to rave about. AND then you have the fact that they have played very average cricket for 29 years, and only been playing half decent cricket in certain formats and certain conditions for the last two years.

The fact that some Bengali fans think that based on that sort of performance Bangladesh no longer deserve to be called minnows is ridiculous in my opinion.

As we are both saying - Bangladesh are on the right tracks and are doing very well. They should be taken seriously in LO matches, specially in sub-continental conditions. No one is expecting them to win consistently away from home, but if they want to lose the 'minnow' label they really need to start winning more Test matches and T20's at home (thus improving their overall record) and at least be competitive away from home for an extended period of time - specially after being so poor for so long.
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India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka have won a grand total of 5/4 matches in SA combined.
South Africa has won 5 games in India alone. They've won double that when we include Sri Lanka, Pakistan and UAE.
Basically one country has won more games away than three full ICC members have.
Should we stipulate that India, Lanka and Pakistan are minnows?

Give Bangladesh a break, they're building something special.
I know this thread will be bumped a lot during the Australian tour, which in itself is not fair.
AUstralia have turned a page, they are not the same side that lost 3-0 to Lanka.
After going 2-0 against SA they've completely revamped the side.
So expect them to be competitive in Bangladesh if not win that series.
 
soso_killer said:
India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka have won a grand total of 5/4 matches in SA combined.
South Africa has won 5 games in India alone. They've won double that when we include Sri Lanka, Pakistan and UAE.
Basically one country has won more games away than three full ICC members have.
Should we stipulate that India, Lanka and Pakistan are minnows?

Give Bangladesh a break, they're building something special.
I know this thread will be bumped a lot during the Australian tour, which in itself is not fair.
AUstralia have turned a page, they are not the same side that lost 3-0 to Lanka.
After going 2-0 against SA they've completely revamped the side.
So expect them to be competitive in Bangladesh if not win that series.
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Pakistan and India's Tests wins are above 200 combined. Bangladesh's total Test wins do not even reach double digits (9). In Tests there is no question they are still a minnow. Not in ODIs however.
 
No.

Opening -> Good
Middle Odder -> Ok
Lower Order -> slightly weak
Spinners -> Good
Fast Bowlers -> Ok

Not a minnow.
 
Napa said:
That is your personal standard for the word "minnow".
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It's not my personal standard, it's what cricket historians and experts in the field of Pakistan cricket unanimously agree on to be the turning point when Pakistan was finally recognised as one of the 'big boys'. Most people would agree that Mushtaq Muhammad's captaincy began a new chapter in our history.
 
shaz619 said:
When did AUS beat SL in SL in a Test in 2011, scorecard? Your goal posts have changed since your reasoning behind BD's alleged minnow status does not stand up. By your definition 50% of international teams much be minnows then :yk
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http://www.espncricinfo.com/sri-lanka-v-australia-2011/engine/match/516212.html

My goal posts have not shifted, if you look at my earlier posts I kept mentioning they have to accumulate wins abroad across formats. I'm sorry but every non-minnow team wins at least one game across formats over the course of a tour. Even Pakistan beat Australia in the 2nd odi that's the difference between a minnow and a non-minnow. Also Sri Lanka did become a non-minnow through success in odi's, so Bangladesh can shed their tag through the shorter format as well.

Bangladesh keep getting whitewashed in ODI's abroad as well apart from a rare win here and there. They haven't become a non-minnow in limited overs completely yet. Their only bilateral wins abroad in ODI's against top teams came against England in 2010 and Sri Lanka in 2013. They have to do more than that. So what if they beat England in one world cup game, they've done that against India and South Africa in 2007 and Pakistan in 1999. Are you telling me they weren't considered minnows after that? The only thing that has changed for them is success at home, even though they lost to England at home recently. They've become competitive abroad but just being competitive doesn't shed the minnow tag, you have to accumulate a few wins, currently they have a grand total of 2 bilateral ODI wins and one win in tests against Sri Lanka just now. There is nothing nonsensical about that.
 
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I have read every argument in this thread - some are fantastic on data point, on historical context while some are based on some valid logic.

I think, the difference between a minnow & a reputed side is not about the result only - it’s about capability to compete. Minnow teams don’t have system, neither a player pool, therefore sometimes they do stun established teams, but most cases, it’s a one sided affair. While established teams might not win, but they keep the contest alive for most matches. Instead of going to India/Pakistan’s early days, I can give couple of recent examples – from August 1986 to April 2002, that’s almost 16 years, India’s in total Test win out side home was one at Colombo in ’92 & one at Dhaka, our 1st Test. After 1996 SCG, till Leeds 2010, that’s 14 years, PAK’s Test result against AUS was played 15, lost 13 – if we take Tests in AUS only, it’s 12-0 out of 12 – none will say that in 90s, India was Test minnows outside home or Pakistan a minnow in Australia.

Coming to Bangladesh, I think, in ODI, we had been in between minnow & a poor side for few years from 2005 to 2014 – that 10 years or so, we had lost many matches, most of them one sided, but at the same time we took out India & England out of ODI WC, WI from T20 WC & beat AUS, NZ, SAF, ENG, IND, SRL in meaningful matches (not dead rubber). Probably, it’s from 2015 WC, that teams started to take notice that unless they play to full potential, BD’ll hurt them. But, even that period, we have lost to Afghans, to Hong Kong – which is actually now at the receiving end of what we did in between 2005-2014 period. These days, no one will be surprised if BD beats SAF, AUS, IND or ENG – rather people will be surprised if Afghans, Zimboks or Irises’ beat us. That’s probably enough to explain where we belong in shorter version.

Improving in Test cricket is not only toughest in cricket, but probably considering most sports; because of the unique nature of the game. Test cricket is extremely skilled & the core of the game needs lots of experience, culture & unique qualities. It’s the only team game dominated by individual skills. It’s not like soccer or basketball that a coach can form a combination with average but extremely fit & committed players who’ll fight out a draw or close the gap. In Test cricket, at the highest level, it’s the top bowlers vs the top batsmen, therefore improving in Test isn’t easy – you have to find exceptional talented players, who can win one on ones. Therefore, the system has to produce top class individuals. For example, I can say that top European & Latin coaches has taken Middle Eastern football teams to a very high level, and they are competing with the top teams, but how many top class individuals have emerged from Saudi Arab, Iran or Qatar? It’s same for basketball, volleyball (Iran is No. 7 in world!), hockey, rugby or handball; but really difficult in cricket. Besides, Test cricket needs lots of culturing – it’s played over 2 innings, therefore the better team gets chances to make a comeback, while weaker teams often lose the match in Day 4 & 5.

I think, improving in Test cricket has few steps. First at home, take the match to Day 5, then start to draw, then stat to win odd Test, finally win series. After that, do the same away – highest of which, in the history of cricket only one team ever did – that WI side, which, possessed all 10 rubbers they played (home & away against AUS, ENG, IND, PAK & NZ) at one point of time. If I give a score for each of these steps, we actually started from zero – that’s without rain, certain to lose a home Test against any reputed side. If I take the highest as 10; at present, we are probably between 4.5 to 5 – that’s capable of winning home Tests against most sides, may be series as well against some sides while capable to surprise many teams away, beating few occasionally. It’s in the lower half, but definitely not minnows.

Apart from the game itself, there should be few factors considered – market size, public interest, domestic infrastructures, player pools etc. For example, England team hasn’t anything in last 60 years – yet they are considered a superpower along with Germany, Brazil, Argentina, France, Italy & Spain, I am talking about soccer here. In that regard, we are ahead pf WI, SRL, probably even NZ as well. It’s a fast developing team with the core of the players are young & the junior teams are better than the senior teams in terms of relative performance, which indicates positive movement. Besides, unlike Pakistan, most of our National players were best performers at U16 & U19 level – which indicates that the domestic system is functioning – that transition between raw talent & pro sportsman is happening.

Considering every factors, I would say, now we are an established cricket nation (power, if we don’t consider that only 7/8 teams play it seriously), with a poor Test team, but certainly not minnows anymore.

[MENTION=141804]QalandarFan[/MENTION]; [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]
 
The day Bangla start as favorites in a test series apart from WI (who are also minnows currently) and go on to win the series albeit home or away, the minnow tag will be shed out
 
MMHS said:
I have read every argument in this thread - some are fantastic on data point, on historical context while some are based on some valid logic.

I think, the difference between a minnow & a reputed side is not about the result only - it’s about capability to compete. Minnow teams don’t have system, neither a player pool, therefore sometimes they do stun established teams, but most cases, it’s a one sided affair. While established teams might not win, but they keep the contest alive for most matches. Instead of going to India/Pakistan’s early days, I can give couple of recent examples – from August 1986 to April 2002, that’s almost 16 years, India’s in total Test win out side home was one at Colombo in ’92 & one at Dhaka, our 1st Test. After 1996 SCG, till Leeds 2010, that’s 14 years, PAK’s Test result against AUS was played 15, lost 13 – if we take Tests in AUS only, it’s 12-0 out of 12 – none will say that in 90s, India was Test minnows outside home or Pakistan a minnow in Australia.

Coming to Bangladesh, I think, in ODI, we had been in between minnow & a poor side for few years from 2005 to 2014 – that 10 years or so, we had lost many matches, most of them one sided, but at the same time we took out India & England out of ODI WC, WI from T20 WC & beat AUS, NZ, SAF, ENG, IND, SRL in meaningful matches (not dead rubber). Probably, it’s from 2015 WC, that teams started to take notice that unless they play to full potential, BD’ll hurt them. But, even that period, we have lost to Afghans, to Hong Kong – which is actually now at the receiving end of what we did in between 2005-2014 period. These days, no one will be surprised if BD beats SAF, AUS, IND or ENG – rather people will be surprised if Afghans, Zimboks or Irises’ beat us. That’s probably enough to explain where we belong in shorter version.

Improving in Test cricket is not only toughest in cricket, but probably considering most sports; because of the unique nature of the game. Test cricket is extremely skilled & the core of the game needs lots of experience, culture & unique qualities. It’s the only team game dominated by individual skills. It’s not like soccer or basketball that a coach can form a combination with average but extremely fit & committed players who’ll fight out a draw or close the gap. In Test cricket, at the highest level, it’s the top bowlers vs the top batsmen, therefore improving in Test isn’t easy – you have to find exceptional talented players, who can win one on ones. Therefore, the system has to produce top class individuals. For example, I can say that top European & Latin coaches has taken Middle Eastern football teams to a very high level, and they are competing with the top teams, but how many top class individuals have emerged from Saudi Arab, Iran or Qatar? It’s same for basketball, volleyball (Iran is No. 7 in world!), hockey, rugby or handball; but really difficult in cricket. Besides, Test cricket needs lots of culturing – it’s played over 2 innings, therefore the better team gets chances to make a comeback, while weaker teams often lose the match in Day 4 & 5.

I think, improving in Test cricket has few steps. First at home, take the match to Day 5, then start to draw, then stat to win odd Test, finally win series. After that, do the same away – highest of which, in the history of cricket only one team ever did – that WI side, which, possessed all 10 rubbers they played (home & away against AUS, ENG, IND, PAK & NZ) at one point of time. If I give a score for each of these steps, we actually started from zero – that’s without rain, certain to lose a home Test against any reputed side. If I take the highest as 10; at present, we are probably between 4.5 to 5 – that’s capable of winning home Tests against most sides, may be series as well against some sides while capable to surprise many teams away, beating few occasionally. It’s in the lower half, but definitely not minnows.

Apart from the game itself, there should be few factors considered – market size, public interest, domestic infrastructures, player pools etc. For example, England team hasn’t anything in last 60 years – yet they are considered a superpower along with Germany, Brazil, Argentina, France, Italy & Spain, I am talking about soccer here. In that regard, we are ahead pf WI, SRL, probably even NZ as well. It’s a fast developing team with the core of the players are young & the junior teams are better than the senior teams in terms of relative performance, which indicates positive movement. Besides, unlike Pakistan, most of our National players were best performers at U16 & U19 level – which indicates that the domestic system is functioning – that transition between raw talent & pro sportsman is happening.

Considering every factors, I would say, now we are an established cricket nation (power, if we don’t consider that only 7/8 teams play it seriously), with a poor Test team, but certainly not minnows anymore.

[MENTION=141804]QalandarFan[/MENTION]; [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]
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I respect your argument but I would just like to point out that from 1986 to 2002, India won a bilateral series in England in 86 and 90, and the Natwest series in England in 2002 as well as a bilateral series in 1992 in South Africa.

Pakistan won the tri-series in Australia in 1997, a bilateral series against Australia in Australia in 2002, and drew a bilateral series in England in 2006.

While during the periods you have mentioned for both teams, Pakistan and India were not doing well in tests abroad like almost all teams today, they were still winning bilateral series every so often against the top teams away from home something Bangladesh have still not done. Till they do that I feel their minnow tag will not have been shed.

Bangladesh are on the verge of going onto be a major cricketing nation but until they achieve certain milestones in their international cricketing journey certain tags will not be shed even if other indicators are starting to show otherwise. Of course our opinions can differ based on our own take on certain things. I feel the term minnow is being incorrectly viewed as a derogatory term by some.
 
MMHS said:
I have read every argument in this thread - some are fantastic on data point, on historical context while some are based on some valid logic.

I think, the difference between a minnow & a reputed side is not about the result only - it’s about capability to compete. Minnow teams don’t have system, neither a player pool, therefore sometimes they do stun established teams, but most cases, it’s a one sided affair. While established teams might not win, but they keep the contest alive for most matches. Instead of going to India/Pakistan’s early days, I can give couple of recent examples – from August 1986 to April 2002, that’s almost 16 years, India’s in total Test win out side home was one at Colombo in ’92 & one at Dhaka, our 1st Test. After 1996 SCG, till Leeds 2010, that’s 14 years, PAK’s Test result against AUS was played 15, lost 13 – if we take Tests in AUS only, it’s 12-0 out of 12 – none will say that in 90s, India was Test minnows outside home or Pakistan a minnow in Australia.

Coming to Bangladesh, I think, in ODI, we had been in between minnow & a poor side for few years from 2005 to 2014 – that 10 years or so, we had lost many matches, most of them one sided, but at the same time we took out India & England out of ODI WC, WI from T20 WC & beat AUS, NZ, SAF, ENG, IND, SRL in meaningful matches (not dead rubber). Probably, it’s from 2015 WC, that teams started to take notice that unless they play to full potential, BD’ll hurt them. But, even that period, we have lost to Afghans, to Hong Kong – which is actually now at the receiving end of what we did in between 2005-2014 period. These days, no one will be surprised if BD beats SAF, AUS, IND or ENG – rather people will be surprised if Afghans, Zimboks or Irises’ beat us. That’s probably enough to explain where we belong in shorter version.

Improving in Test cricket is not only toughest in cricket, but probably considering most sports; because of the unique nature of the game. Test cricket is extremely skilled & the core of the game needs lots of experience, culture & unique qualities. It’s the only team game dominated by individual skills. It’s not like soccer or basketball that a coach can form a combination with average but extremely fit & committed players who’ll fight out a draw or close the gap. In Test cricket, at the highest level, it’s the top bowlers vs the top batsmen, therefore improving in Test isn’t easy – you have to find exceptional talented players, who can win one on ones. Therefore, the system has to produce top class individuals. For example, I can say that top European & Latin coaches has taken Middle Eastern football teams to a very high level, and they are competing with the top teams, but how many top class individuals have emerged from Saudi Arab, Iran or Qatar? It’s same for basketball, volleyball (Iran is No. 7 in world!), hockey, rugby or handball; but really difficult in cricket. Besides, Test cricket needs lots of culturing – it’s played over 2 innings, therefore the better team gets chances to make a comeback, while weaker teams often lose the match in Day 4 & 5.

I think, improving in Test cricket has few steps. First at home, take the match to Day 5, then start to draw, then stat to win odd Test, finally win series. After that, do the same away – highest of which, in the history of cricket only one team ever did – that WI side, which, possessed all 10 rubbers they played (home & away against AUS, ENG, IND, PAK & NZ) at one point of time. If I give a score for each of these steps, we actually started from zero – that’s without rain, certain to lose a home Test against any reputed side. If I take the highest as 10; at present, we are probably between 4.5 to 5 – that’s capable of winning home Tests against most sides, may be series as well against some sides while capable to surprise many teams away, beating few occasionally. It’s in the lower half, but definitely not minnows.

Apart from the game itself, there should be few factors considered – market size, public interest, domestic infrastructures, player pools etc. For example, England team hasn’t anything in last 60 years – yet they are considered a superpower along with Germany, Brazil, Argentina, France, Italy & Spain, I am talking about soccer here. In that regard, we are ahead pf WI, SRL, probably even NZ as well. It’s a fast developing team with the core of the players are young & the junior teams are better than the senior teams in terms of relative performance, which indicates positive movement. Besides, unlike Pakistan, most of our National players were best performers at U16 & U19 level – which indicates that the domestic system is functioning – that transition between raw talent & pro sportsman is happening.

Considering every factors, I would say, now we are an established cricket nation (power, if we don’t consider that only 7/8 teams play it seriously), with a poor Test team, but certainly not minnows anymore.

[MENTION=141804]QalandarFan[/MENTION]; [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]
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Great post re: ODIs. However as I said earlier, you can't shed your minnow tag in Tests with only 9 wins in the entire format so far. The 'dark period' between 86 and 2002 you mentioned for Pakistan, we had won 44 Tests and lost only 29 during the period.

You cannot convince someone that Bangladesh is not a minnow in Tests when you don't have wins in double digits in the format.
 
Pakpak said:
Pakistan and India's Tests wins are above 200 combined. Bangladesh's total Test wins do not even reach double digits (9). In Tests there is no question they are still a minnow. Not in ODIs however.
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That's got nothing to do with my post.
Anyhow I don't think SA has won 200 Tests themselves, by your definition they'd be minnows.

Bangladesh have improved over the last two years or so, labeling them as minnows would be disrespectful imo.
 
If you go by [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION] view of the cricket world ... India was a Test Minnow as recently as the 80s and early 90s .... so there :)
 
soso_killer said:
That's got nothing to do with my post.
Anyhow I don't think SA has won 200 Tests themselves, by your definition they'd be minnows.

Bangladesh have improved over the last two years or so, labeling them as minnows would be disrespectful imo.
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Pakistan have won 130, India & South Africa a similar amount.

If you think a team that has not even won 10 Test matches is not a minnow in that format then you have a different definition of minnow. If South Africa had only won NINE Test matches in their history I'd be calling them a minnow too.
 
A.A.Z said:
http://www.espncricinfo.com/sri-lanka-v-australia-2011/engine/match/516212.html

My goal posts have not shifted, if you look at my earlier posts I kept mentioning they have to accumulate wins abroad across formats. I'm sorry but every non-minnow team wins at least one game across formats over the course of a tour. Even Pakistan beat Australia in the 2nd odi that's the difference between a minnow and a non-minnow. Also Sri Lanka did become a non-minnow through success in odi's, so Bangladesh can shed their tag through the shorter format as well.

Bangladesh keep getting whitewashed in ODI's abroad as well apart from a rare win here and there. They haven't become a non-minnow in limited overs completely yet. Their only bilateral wins abroad in ODI's against top teams came against England in 2010 and Sri Lanka in 2013. They have to do more than that. So what if they beat England in one world cup game, they've done that against India and South Africa in 2007 and Pakistan in 1999. Are you telling me they weren't considered minnows after that? The only thing that has changed for them is success at home, even though they lost to England at home recently. They've become competitive abroad but just being competitive doesn't shed the minnow tag, you have to accumulate a few wins, currently they have a grand total of 2 bilateral ODI wins and one win in tests against Sri Lanka just now. There is nothing nonsensical about that.
Click to expand...

You are using ODI's as the measuring stick and in that particular format they've been more then decent, I've already explained in earlier posts the extent of their prowess despite the obstacles which they have faced and their achievements relative to other teams at a similar level of experience in their test history
 
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MMHS said:
I have read every argument in this thread - some are fantastic on data point, on historical context while some are based on some valid logic.

I think, the difference between a minnow & a reputed side is not about the result only - it’s about capability to compete. Minnow teams don’t have system, neither a player pool, therefore sometimes they do stun established teams, but most cases, it’s a one sided affair. While established teams might not win, but they keep the contest alive for most matches. Instead of going to India/Pakistan’s early days, I can give couple of recent examples – from August 1986 to April 2002, that’s almost 16 years, India’s in total Test win out side home was one at Colombo in ’92 & one at Dhaka, our 1st Test. After 1996 SCG, till Leeds 2010, that’s 14 years, PAK’s Test result against AUS was played 15, lost 13 – if we take Tests in AUS only, it’s 12-0 out of 12 – none will say that in 90s, India was Test minnows outside home or Pakistan a minnow in Australia.

Coming to Bangladesh, I think, in ODI, we had been in between minnow & a poor side for few years from 2005 to 2014 – that 10 years or so, we had lost many matches, most of them one sided, but at the same time we took out India & England out of ODI WC, WI from T20 WC & beat AUS, NZ, SAF, ENG, IND, SRL in meaningful matches (not dead rubber). Probably, it’s from 2015 WC, that teams started to take notice that unless they play to full potential, BD’ll hurt them. But, even that period, we have lost to Afghans, to Hong Kong – which is actually now at the receiving end of what we did in between 2005-2014 period. These days, no one will be surprised if BD beats SAF, AUS, IND or ENG – rather people will be surprised if Afghans, Zimboks or Irises’ beat us. That’s probably enough to explain where we belong in shorter version.

Improving in Test cricket is not only toughest in cricket, but probably considering most sports; because of the unique nature of the game. Test cricket is extremely skilled & the core of the game needs lots of experience, culture & unique qualities. It’s the only team game dominated by individual skills. It’s not like soccer or basketball that a coach can form a combination with average but extremely fit & committed players who’ll fight out a draw or close the gap. In Test cricket, at the highest level, it’s the top bowlers vs the top batsmen, therefore improving in Test isn’t easy – you have to find exceptional talented players, who can win one on ones. Therefore, the system has to produce top class individuals. For example, I can say that top European & Latin coaches has taken Middle Eastern football teams to a very high level, and they are competing with the top teams, but how many top class individuals have emerged from Saudi Arab, Iran or Qatar? It’s same for basketball, volleyball (Iran is No. 7 in world!), hockey, rugby or handball; but really difficult in cricket. Besides, Test cricket needs lots of culturing – it’s played over 2 innings, therefore the better team gets chances to make a comeback, while weaker teams often lose the match in Day 4 & 5.

I think, improving in Test cricket has few steps. First at home, take the match to Day 5, then start to draw, then stat to win odd Test, finally win series. After that, do the same away – highest of which, in the history of cricket only one team ever did – that WI side, which, possessed all 10 rubbers they played (home & away against AUS, ENG, IND, PAK & NZ) at one point of time. If I give a score for each of these steps, we actually started from zero – that’s without rain, certain to lose a home Test against any reputed side. If I take the highest as 10; at present, we are probably between 4.5 to 5 – that’s capable of winning home Tests against most sides, may be series as well against some sides while capable to surprise many teams away, beating few occasionally. It’s in the lower half, but definitely not minnows.

Apart from the game itself, there should be few factors considered – market size, public interest, domestic infrastructures, player pools etc. For example, England team hasn’t anything in last 60 years – yet they are considered a superpower along with Germany, Brazil, Argentina, France, Italy & Spain, I am talking about soccer here. In that regard, we are ahead pf WI, SRL, probably even NZ as well. It’s a fast developing team with the core of the players are young & the junior teams are better than the senior teams in terms of relative performance, which indicates positive movement. Besides, unlike Pakistan, most of our National players were best performers at U16 & U19 level – which indicates that the domestic system is functioning – that transition between raw talent & pro sportsman is happening.

Considering every factors, I would say, now we are an established cricket nation (power, if we don’t consider that only 7/8 teams play it seriously), with a poor Test team, but certainly not minnows anymore.

[MENTION=141804]QalandarFan[/MENTION]; [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]
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Good post brother, very insightful
 
soso_killer said:
India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka have won a grand total of 5/4 matches in SA combined.
South Africa has won 5 games in India alone. They've won double that when we include Sri Lanka, Pakistan and UAE.
Basically one country has won more games away than three full ICC members have.
Should we stipulate that India, Lanka and Pakistan are minnows?

Give Bangladesh a break, they're building something special.
I know this thread will be bumped a lot during the Australian tour, which in itself is not fair.
AUstralia have turned a page, they are not the same side that lost 3-0 to Lanka.
After going 2-0 against SA they've completely revamped the side.
So expect them to be competitive in Bangladesh if not win that series.
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Would you please show me where I have said that unless a team can win all overseas conditions (or any overseas conditions for that matter), they should be considered a minnow?
 
They are definitely still test minnows. They have how many wins out of a 100 tests? The yare however a pretty decent ODI side and a very good one while at home.
 
What's with this comment about wins in first 100 matches.

Bangladesh got test status when cricket was at it's Pinnacle. Infact the 9th ranked test team back then was good enough to beat top teams these days.

Flower brothers. Campbell. Goodwin. Heath streak.
 
Yes they do.


They are ranked below Afghanistan in T20s. As my friend [MENTION=137485]Dios[/MENTION] will confirm.
 
If Bangladesh is a minnow, and they win the next time they play Pakistan (not unlikely), what would that make Pakistan? An infra-minnow, a sub-minnow, a nimmow?
 
Napa said:
If Bangladesh is a minnow, and they win the next time they play Pakistan (not unlikely), what would that make Pakistan? An infra-minnow, a sub-minnow, a nimmow?
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No. Bangladesh beat India in a series, who aren't minnows.
 
I don't really care about stats or win percentages, that's not indicative of the current strength for the current Bangladesh side.
Windies have 2/3 WC, SA zero. Are the Windies currently a better ODI unit than SA? Historically, perhaps, but currently? I don't think so.
Same applies to Bangladesh, it's going to take decades for them to rectify their record.
Even if they win the next 6 matches in a row at home they'd still have a paltry 15 wins from 100+ Tests. Those are still minnow numbers, would it be sensible to continue labeling them as minnows?
 
Australia should win the BD series without too much trouble

Speaking of which, is the series even happening in the first place ?
 
Can't believe we have such a thread in 2017 now :facepalm:

Bangladesh lost their "minnow" tag way back in 2010 when they beat New Zealand 4-0 in ODIs. Forget Bangladesh, even teams like Afghanistan & Ireland don't deserve to be called minnows either
 
[MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION]; [MENTION=142755]A.A.Z[/MENTION]

I explained it in my 2nd para - minnow & non minnow isn't or shouldn't be defined with win loss. Number of wins are often a factor of time, as long as the progression curve is positive. Also, it's dependent on what's the level of contemporary teams - WI of late 70s, early 80s almost made every team like minnow (If Test matches were played in current regulations regarding time waste, slow over rate & make up of over loss; Lloyd's team won't have drawn a single match - 9 out of 10 wins & a sudden off day...) .

The difference between minnow & non minnow is at what extent 2 teams are competing. In ODI, I don't think it's even an argument. In Test, we are competing both home & away - which you can say poor Test team, needs improvement; but it's certainly not the Test minnow Zimbabwe.

* Don't look at the W/L too much, because of the change in playing condition these days. BD started playing Test, when it was 5 day, 450 overs & lots of make-up times, besides advanced technology (lights, super swapper ...) to ensure as many overs as possible, above all - NEUTRAL UMPIRES; which didn't help us to steal draws, (even some wins - I can recall at least 3 Tests against AUS, NZ & SAF - where 13 Bangladeshi would have definitely won the Test). You can check CricInfo for initial 3/4 decades of Test for every new team barring AUS/ENG - many of those draws were because of 3/4 Day Tests, weather interrupted matches, snail over rate, horrible home umpiring. Theoretically, replicate similar condition in Tests matches for BD, it won't look that bad.
 
In Test - Yes, still at a minnow level. Apart from 1 or 2 players, rest of the team don't have the temperament required for test matches.

ODIs - No. Quite a decent team at home but need to start winning matches outside the comfort zone.
 
MMHS said:
[MENTION=21699]Pakpak[/MENTION]; [MENTION=142755]A.A.Z[/MENTION]

I explained it in my 2nd para - minnow & non minnow isn't or shouldn't be defined with win loss. Number of wins are often a factor of time, as long as the progression curve is positive. Also, it's dependent on what's the level of contemporary teams - WI of late 70s, early 80s almost made every team like minnow (If Test matches were played in current regulations regarding time waste, slow over rate & make up of over loss; Lloyd's team won't have drawn a single match - 9 out of 10 wins & a sudden off day...) .

The difference between minnow & non minnow is at what extent 2 teams are competing. In ODI, I don't think it's even an argument. In Test, we are competing both home & away - which you can say poor Test team, needs improvement; but it's certainly not the Test minnow Zimbabwe.

* Don't look at the W/L too much, because of the change in playing condition these days. BD started playing Test, when it was 5 day, 450 overs & lots of make-up times, besides advanced technology (lights, super swapper ...) to ensure as many overs as possible, above all - NEUTRAL UMPIRES; which didn't help us to steal draws, (even some wins - I can recall at least 3 Tests against AUS, NZ & SAF - where 13 Bangladeshi would have definitely won the Test). You can check CricInfo for initial 3/4 decades of Test for every new team barring AUS/ENG - many of those draws were because of 3/4 Day Tests, weather interrupted matches, snail over rate, horrible home umpiring. Theoretically, replicate similar condition in Tests matches for BD, it won't look that bad.
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[MENTION=79064]MMHS[/MENTION] whatever explanation you serve it won't change who have mindset of tagging us minnow. it more than actually mind set of others towards you. so what we can do? we can only perform ti change their mindset of tagging us minnow. when you will play better their mindset will change one day. though some people who have superiority complex wont change ever. discount them and perform better and better than previous. that's what we can do than argue with this topic
 
In odis they are mediocre rathar than minnows but in tests though they are improving but still are minnows.
 
Once you are really better then none would dare to level you minnow. Simple.So be better rather than moaning.
 
I wonder what their record away from home has been in the past few years, got to Semi Finals in the CT but have they done anything beyond that away from home?
 
Nope they are not, in tests may be, but actually a pretty good ODI side with a few of world class players in the middle order.
 
I absolutely love the passion with which the Bangladeshi team plays their cricket. They have become from a really dull, drab, and dour side to a very passionate one and most of the times are a super fun team to watch.

Add to that their joyous home support and matches in Bangladesh are something I look forward to now (except the shoddy camera work - that really needs an upgrade).

Some of us never saw our teams struggle in the initial years and it shows. We take winning matches too easily and almost for granted. I kinda started following the game when we still had Wasim and Waqar albeit they were at their last legs but still it was just a casual assumption that Wasim would take a wicket in his first few overs and not give away runs. And then later come back at death and bowl those yorkers at will and win us even improbable matches. It was so much of a given that every failure felt awkward and success the norm but only once the legends left the field and our trundler brigade rose to the occasion that the real realization hit as how brilliant of a bowler Wasim was and how blessed were we to have him in our team.

Bangladesh has struggled in cricket. This is a given. The team hasn't achieved much at the global stage (not considering intercontinental cups and world cup qualifiers). This is also a given. They also haven't really produced a gun fast bowler that makes you sit up and take notice. This is again a fact and no, Mustafizur doesn't count. He's someone who is good and nice but he isn't a test-class fearsome fast bowler who will go to Melbourne and take a 12-wicket haul and win his team a test match.

They do however have a stable and strong core. Mahmudullah has improved a lot, Shakib and Tamim are brilliant, Mushfiqur would probably walk into most teams barring India and England, and Mashrafe is a bold and well-respected leader. The team probably will still get knocked out on foreign test tours but it's the same story for Pakistan and even India (although India as of now is worlds-apart from what it used to be and they'll regulalry win away from home once they get a couple more younger players inducted and don't lose hunger for test cricket dominance).

They are not minnows and they haven't been for the best part of at least half a decade. Their team is becoming better and BPL will also help them find a few more talented players. It's good to have a rivalry and it's good to get beaten by teams that play good positive cricket. Not all is lost when a sporting team loses a cricket match, in fact at times it's the exact opposite. It helps develop character and it makes people improve their own abilities. The case of Imran Khan is a prime example who was buoyed by the desire to prove that he's the best and currently Kohli is doing the same where he wants the world to respect the Indian team and create a new identity.

Sports like life will always remain in a flux. Either teams will go up, or down as no one has the power to remain at a certain level forever. Even in club football where a club can simply buy the best available talent from anywhere in the world, sporting clubs have up and down fortunes. That's the rule of life; the number ones now, will later be last. It happened to the might West Indies, it happed to the glorious Australia and it will continue to happen to many long after we are gone. One of the major benefits of sports is to give young kids hope, inspire them to spend their time doing sports instead of other terrible habits and as long as kids in Bangladesh are picking up bat and ball and playing in the streets of Dhaka to the rice fields of Sylhet, all is well.

I hope that the Pakistani team plays Bangladesh more often and the boards from the two countries get over their silly differences. There are always going to be some annoying fans that make a lot more noise that it's eneded and add some nuisance value but that too is part of sporting culture no matter what the sport is. It's good to have Bangladesh as a strong team, and I hope that they will continue to go from strength to strength.

Pakistan needs that. Bangladesh needs that. And at the end of the day, cricket needs that.
 
GoUgandaCranes said:
I absolutely love the passion with which the Bangladeshi team plays their cricket. They have become from a really dull, drab, and dour side to a very passionate one and most of the times are a super fun team to watch.

Add to that their joyous home support and matches in Bangladesh are something I look forward to now (except the shoddy camera work - that really needs an upgrade).

Some of us never saw our teams struggle in the initial years and it shows. We take winning matches too easily and almost for granted. I kinda started following the game when we still had Wasim and Waqar albeit they were at their last legs but still it was just a casual assumption that Wasim would take a wicket in his first few overs and not give away runs. And then later come back at death and bowl those yorkers at will and win us even improbable matches. It was so much of a given that every failure felt awkward and success the norm but only once the legends left the field and our trundler brigade rose to the occasion that the real realization hit as how brilliant of a bowler Wasim was and how blessed were we to have him in our team.

Bangladesh has struggled in cricket. This is a given. The team hasn't achieved much at the global stage (not considering intercontinental cups and world cup qualifiers). This is also a given. They also haven't really produced a gun fast bowler that makes you sit up and take notice. This is again a fact and no, Mustafizur doesn't count. He's someone who is good and nice but he isn't a test-class fearsome fast bowler who will go to Melbourne and take a 12-wicket haul and win his team a test match.

They do however have a stable and strong core. Mahmudullah has improved a lot, Shakib and Tamim are brilliant, Mushfiqur would probably walk into most teams barring India and England, and Mashrafe is a bold and well-respected leader. The team probably will still get knocked out on foreign test tours but it's the same story for Pakistan and even India (although India as of now is worlds-apart from what it used to be and they'll regulalry win away from home once they get a couple more younger players inducted and don't lose hunger for test cricket dominance).

They are not minnows and they haven't been for the best part of at least half a decade. Their team is becoming better and BPL will also help them find a few more talented players. It's good to have a rivalry and it's good to get beaten by teams that play good positive cricket. Not all is lost when a sporting team loses a cricket match, in fact at times it's the exact opposite. It helps develop character and it makes people improve their own abilities. The case of Imran Khan is a prime example who was buoyed by the desire to prove that he's the best and currently Kohli is doing the same where he wants the world to respect the Indian team and create a new identity.

Sports like life will always remain in a flux. Either teams will go up, or down as no one has the power to remain at a certain level forever. Even in club football where a club can simply buy the best available talent from anywhere in the world, sporting clubs have up and down fortunes. That's the rule of life; the number ones now, will later be last. It happened to the might West Indies, it happed to the glorious Australia and it will continue to happen to many long after we are gone. One of the major benefits of sports is to give young kids hope, inspire them to spend their time doing sports instead of other terrible habits and as long as kids in Bangladesh are picking up bat and ball and playing in the streets of Dhaka to the rice fields of Sylhet, all is well.

I hope that the Pakistani team plays Bangladesh more often and the boards from the two countries get over their silly differences. There are always going to be some annoying fans that make a lot more noise that it's eneded and add some nuisance value but that too is part of sporting culture no matter what the sport is. It's good to have Bangladesh as a strong team, and I hope that they will continue to go from strength to strength.

Pakistan needs that. Bangladesh needs that. And at the end of the day, cricket needs that.
Click to expand...

Excellent post!! I believe BD will surprise a few teams in this WC. They lost the minnow tag when they beat ENG and reached the QF in 2015.
 
GoUgandaCranes said:
I absolutely love the passion with which the Bangladeshi team plays their cricket. They have become from a really dull, drab, and dour side to a very passionate one and most of the times are a super fun team to watch.

Add to that their joyous home support and matches in Bangladesh are something I look forward to now (except the shoddy camera work - that really needs an upgrade).

Some of us never saw our teams struggle in the initial years and it shows. We take winning matches too easily and almost for granted. I kinda started following the game when we still had Wasim and Waqar albeit they were at their last legs but still it was just a casual assumption that Wasim would take a wicket in his first few overs and not give away runs. And then later come back at death and bowl those yorkers at will and win us even improbable matches. It was so much of a given that every failure felt awkward and success the norm but only once the legends left the field and our trundler brigade rose to the occasion that the real realization hit as how brilliant of a bowler Wasim was and how blessed were we to have him in our team.

Bangladesh has struggled in cricket. This is a given. The team hasn't achieved much at the global stage (not considering intercontinental cups and world cup qualifiers). This is also a given. They also haven't really produced a gun fast bowler that makes you sit up and take notice. This is again a fact and no, Mustafizur doesn't count. He's someone who is good and nice but he isn't a test-class fearsome fast bowler who will go to Melbourne and take a 12-wicket haul and win his team a test match.

They do however have a stable and strong core. Mahmudullah has improved a lot, Shakib and Tamim are brilliant, Mushfiqur would probably walk into most teams barring India and England, and Mashrafe is a bold and well-respected leader. The team probably will still get knocked out on foreign test tours but it's the same story for Pakistan and even India (although India as of now is worlds-apart from what it used to be and they'll regulalry win away from home once they get a couple more younger players inducted and don't lose hunger for test cricket dominance).

They are not minnows and they haven't been for the best part of at least half a decade. Their team is becoming better and BPL will also help them find a few more talented players. It's good to have a rivalry and it's good to get beaten by teams that play good positive cricket. Not all is lost when a sporting team loses a cricket match, in fact at times it's the exact opposite. It helps develop character and it makes people improve their own abilities. The case of Imran Khan is a prime example who was buoyed by the desire to prove that he's the best and currently Kohli is doing the same where he wants the world to respect the Indian team and create a new identity.

Sports like life will always remain in a flux. Either teams will go up, or down as no one has the power to remain at a certain level forever. Even in club football where a club can simply buy the best available talent from anywhere in the world, sporting clubs have up and down fortunes. That's the rule of life; the number ones now, will later be last. It happened to the might West Indies, it happed to the glorious Australia and it will continue to happen to many long after we are gone. One of the major benefits of sports is to give young kids hope, inspire them to spend their time doing sports instead of other terrible habits and as long as kids in Bangladesh are picking up bat and ball and playing in the streets of Dhaka to the rice fields of Sylhet, all is well.

I hope that the Pakistani team plays Bangladesh more often and the boards from the two countries get over their silly differences. There are always going to be some annoying fans that make a lot more noise that it's eneded and add some nuisance value but that too is part of sporting culture no matter what the sport is. It's good to have Bangladesh as a strong team, and I hope that they will continue to go from strength to strength.

Pakistan needs that. Bangladesh needs that. And at the end of the day, cricket needs that.
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Best thing I've read on PP. "Ever".
 
Tests - Yes
ODIs - No
T20 - Yes

They need to start playing a lot more games then they actually do, especially away from home to get away from minnow status.
 
No. They were a minnow once , but now they are a serious team.
They've won test matches against England, Australia, Sri Lanka (in SL) and Windies in recent times. No minnow will do that.

In odis , they can beat any team any where on there day. Clean sweeped pakistan, won series against India and south Africa since the world cup. Reached the final of the Asia cup last 2 out of 3 times (odi format) .

Perhaps in T20s , they are a weaker side.
But shouldn't really care about that , as long as it's not a WT20.
 
Bangladesh has revolutionised themselves as a cricket playing nation and announced themselves as the fastest improving cricket teams in the history of cricket.

Currently in Asian condition most teams will find it extremely difficult to win series against Bangladesh barring India.

I expect Bangladesh to win an odi match 9 out of 10 times against teams like Pak, SL, ZIMBABWE, WI and 5 out of 10 times against teams like Eng, Sa and Aus.

In test however its a different story. But still I m sure we will beat Pak and SL 5 out of 10 times if its played in UAE or SL and 8 out of 10 times if its played in mirpur.
 
RainMan_ said:
Bangladesh has revolutionised themselves as a cricket playing nation and announced themselves as the fastest improving cricket teams in the history of cricket.

Currently in Asian condition most teams will find it extremely difficult to win series against Bangladesh barring India.

I expect Bangladesh to win an odi match 9 out of 10 times against teams like Pak, SL, ZIMBABWE, WI and 5 out of 10 times against teams like Eng, Sa and Aus.

In test however its a different story. But still I m sure we will beat Pak and SL 5 out of 10 times if its played in UAE or SL and 8 out of 10 times if its played in mirpur.
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Bangladesh has revolutionised (what ever that means) themselves is a coping mechanism BD fans use to survive in online forums. But in reality, there is nothing at all that BD cricket has achieved in their history. After playing cricket for more than 25 odd years...they are yet to win a tri series. Getting into Asia cup finals couple of times and getting into semi finals of a CT is no big achievement. Remember, even Kenya got into semi finals of WC.

Afg already humiliated you with 3 - 0 whitewash and you are dreaming to beat teams like Pak, Eng and Aust? Give your delusion some rest...first achieve something and then we can talk.

BD may have been an improved side but rakings of 7,9 and 10 respectively in a sport which only has 10 major teams in minnowisque.
 
RainMan_ said:
Bangladesh has revolutionised themselves as a cricket playing nation and announced themselves as the fastest improving cricket teams in the history of cricket.

Currently in Asian condition most teams will find it extremely difficult to win series against Bangladesh barring India.

I expect Bangladesh to win an odi match 9 out of 10 times against teams like Pak, SL, ZIMBABWE, WI and 5 out of 10 times against teams like Eng, Sa and Aus.

In test however its a different story. But still I m sure we will beat Pak and SL 5 out of 10 times if its played in UAE or SL and 8 out of 10 times if its played in mirpur.
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Wait for a few months, Bdesh would finish with 1 victory in 9 matches during WC and that will settle their minnow status.
 
RainMan_ said:
Bangladesh has revolutionised themselves as a cricket playing nation and announced themselves as the fastest improving cricket teams in the history of cricket.

Currently in Asian condition most teams will find it extremely difficult to win series against Bangladesh barring India.

I expect Bangladesh to win an odi match 9 out of 10 times against teams like Pak, SL, ZIMBABWE, WI and 5 out of 10 times against teams like Eng, Sa and Aus.

In test however its a different story. But still I m sure we will beat Pak and SL 5 out of 10 times if its played in UAE or SL and 8 out of 10 times if its played in mirpur.
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Are u trolling or what?😂
Beating pakistan 9 out of 10 times???😂😂
Don't let that 2015 series influence u that much. Our team was just bad at that time. It is 2019 rn. The asia cup win was just a fluke for u. Chasing 230 should have been a walk in the park but we just couldn't do it.

U think u can beat us 5 times out of 10 in tests??😂😂
Mate even in the 2015 series we completely annihilated u in the tests. We beat australia by the biggest margin we have ever beaten them. Stop getting ahead of yourself.
 
a_tahir said:
Are u trolling or what?😂
Beating pakistan 9 out of 10 times???😂😂
Don't let that 2015 series influence u that much. Our team was just bad at that time. It is 2019 rn. The asia cup win was just a fluke for u. Chasing 230 should have been a walk in the park but we just couldn't do it.

U think u can beat us 5 times out of 10 in tests??😂😂
Mate even in the 2015 series we completely annihilated u in the tests. We beat australia by the biggest margin we have ever beaten them. Stop getting ahead of yourself.
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Everything [MENTION=146500]RainMan_[/MENTION] said was facts.

Bangladesh are a better ODI than Pakistan in the sub continent, and we’d be the underdogs whenever we face them.

Why do you think the PCB aren’t hosting a series against Bangladesh in the UAE?

There are more Bangladeshi’s than those from the Carribean living in UAE yet we host West Indies instead?

The fact is, our board is scared of a series defeat against ‘minnows’.
 
They aren’t minnows. They are a solid ODI side, in tests they will be competitive at home and maybe surprise some teams.
 
ODIs
Home - favorites against all except Eng and India
Away - pretty competitive and evenly matched against, WI, SL

Tests
Home - favorites against all except India
Away in UAE/SL- pretty competitive and evenly matched against, SL and possibly Pakistan (in their curret form)
Away in India - Minnows but better than Eng in a three match series
SENA - minnows

T20Is
Home - Underdogs to evenly matched against lower ranked teams, WI, SL. Will be steamrolled by higher ranked teams
Away - Minnows
 
RainMan_ said:
Bangladesh has revolutionised themselves as a cricket playing nation and announced themselves as the fastest improving cricket teams in the history of cricket.

Currently in Asian condition most teams will find it extremely difficult to win series against Bangladesh barring India.

I expect Bangladesh to win an odi match 9 out of 10 times against teams like Pak, SL, ZIMBABWE, WI and 5 out of 10 times against teams like Eng, Sa and Aus.

In test however its a different story. But still I m sure we will beat Pak and SL 5 out of 10 times if its played in UAE or SL and 8 out of 10 times if its played in mirpur.
Click to expand...

By the time same juncture in ODI history India, Pak and SL had already won the World cups. India had also won World series cup. SL performance was even more impressive which won the WC with hardly 15 years of ODI playing experience. INdia nad Pak surely had more FC experience but for the first few decades it was just armature setup with no money or modern coaching in place. I think India played like 25 test matches in their first two decades and BD has played more than 100 test matches.

one valid excuse that BD has is that they came into prominence when LOI cricket was booming resulting in less stress on FC structure and performance. If you think that way BD is actually the first test playing nations which was born in LOI era. So even if we discount test performance their LOI performance should have been better. but after playing nearly 30 years of ODI cricket i don't think have even won a tri series. Same with T20s. They have a respectable T20 league and many of their players are born into T20 culture and get to play around the world. But still no trophies or any global achievements to show

it may just be the case of taking more time to break in, which i fully understand. What i dont understand is the kind of bragging that is there in this post. There is no way Pak will lose 9 out of 10 times to BD anywhere in the world except may be in 10 out 10 dust bowls. They may still lose a series in BD, and the series in UAE will be very competitive, but will struggle to win a 5 match ODI against Pak everywhere else. Same with SL.. SL is going through a slump but the full strength SL will not lose badly to BD. they might lose like 2-3 in a five match series.
 
In the last three years, beginning from 2016, Bangladesh have 20 wins and 20 defeats.

Sixteen of these wins are against teams ranked lower than number six.

Against top ranked teams, Bangladesh have just four wins- one against England, one against Pakistan and two against new Zealand. They have no wins against India(three defeats), South Africa(three defeats) and Australia (one washout) in this period.

Winning against low ranked teams (teams ranked lower than 6)and losing against teams ranked higher than six shows that Bangladesh is a minnow quality team more often than not, with occasional upsets.
 
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The above statistics are in ODI, Bangladesh's strongest format.

Their figures in the period from 2016 to 2018 are:
Against Zimbabwe - five wins , no defeats, Against West Indies 4 wins, two defeats, against Sri Lanka three wins and three defeats, one no result, Against Afghanistan 3 wins and two defeats, Against Ireland one win, one no result.

Against lower ranked teams 16 wins 7 defeats, two no results

Against top ranked teams:
Against England one win , three defeats, Against India zero wins, three defeats, Against South Africa zero wins, three defeats, against New Zealand two wins, four defeats, Against Pakistan one win no defeats, Against Australia one no result.

Against higher ranked teams four wins thirteen defeats, one no result.
 
It really depends on what the definition of Minnow is, for me they are minnow in tests and T20s but in ODIs they are doing okay even if they are losing more than winning.
 
Bangladesh haven't improved much evident by their beatings over the past 5 - 10 LOIs against the Afghans in recent years and their W/L ratio in tests and T20Is.

They linger around the bottom of the Test rankings and are not deemed to be worthy of hosting by most major sides such as Australia and Pakistan.

In T20Is the less said the better.

It's just a matter of time before Afghanistan surpasses Bangladesh in ODIs, they've done it in the shortest format and I expect them to accomplish this by 2023 WC in India. Afghanistan will mostly likely go further in this tournament.
 
A.A.Z said:
Pakistan is the only Asian side to have won an odi series against South Africa in South Africa.

Pakistan has also won a T20 series against South Africa in South Africa as have India.
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not sure where you are getting only pak has won an odi series in SA , but i thought the last odi series ind whipped SA 5-1
 
Bang.. seriously???

67194995_2253926578039764_1408613320193212416_o.jpg



Bangladesh A
201/8

Afghanistan A
202/0 (43.5/50 ov, target 202)
Afghan A won by 10 wickets (with 37 balls remaining)

Bang had 10 players who have 1st team experience.. and losing tht bad?
 
Pakistan has gotten owned by AFG-A and AFG-U19 previously as well, they aren’t a joker team anymore.
 
They are not the easy pass overs they used to be anymore. They have beaten Pak in Bilateral series and also I think Aus and NZ. In Shakib and Mushfiq they have two world class batsmen. Shakib for example can walk into almost any team.

But since cricket is a game of 10-11 nations, any team ranking 8 and below would have to be categorised as minnows.

I hope to see a full tour of Pak(UAE) by Bangladesh very soon iA.
 
Bangladesh is ranked 7th in ODI ranking. They are more than 10 points ahead of SL and WI. You can call BD minnow in ODI but then WI and SL are minnows also.

Bangladesh is a clear minnow in Test. No debate here. But then again, most of the players and fans (including myself) are not interested in Test. BD fans mostly care about ODI and T20.

My verdict is BD is clear minnow in Test but a mid-tier team (6-8) in ODI.
 
Obaidd said:
They are not the easy pass overs they used to be anymore. They have beaten Pak in Bilateral series and also I think Aus and NZ. In Shakib and Mushfiq they have two world class batsmen. Shakib for example can walk into almost any team.

But since cricket is a game of 10-11 nations, any team ranking 8 and below would have to be categorised as minnows.

I hope to see a full tour of Pak(UAE) by Bangladesh very soon iA.
Click to expand...

nah. either bangladesh tours actual pakistan or there is no tour. we dont host minnows in uae.
 
warcry said:
nah. either bangladesh tours actual pakistan or there is no tour. we dont host minnows in uae.
Click to expand...

No worries. If you don't want to host, that's fine. Our FTP is pretty booked.

I don't think BD should tour Pakistan yet. Wait a few more years. If Pakistan doesn't like it, too bad.
 
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