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Does Pakistan still produce faster pace bowlers than India?

O bhai kaunsay fast bowlers? Pandya plays as their 3rd seamer :))

All their “resources” that have debuted so far have looked extremely average. E.g. like that Siraj guy who got tonked on debut.

They can afford to play Pandya as their third seamer because they have two outstanding leg-spinners and a world class fast bowler in Bumrah. They can afford to weaken their bowling to capitalize on Pandya's batting potential.

They have a very good crop of young pacers coming up and are certainly ahead of us now.
 
They can afford to play Pandya as their third seamer because they have two outstanding leg-spinners and a world class fast bowler in Bumrah. They can afford to weaken their bowling to capitalize on Pandya's batting potential.

They have a very good crop of young pacers coming up and are certainly ahead of us now.

Well they will certainly receive a “reality check” when a team negates their spinners.

Bumrah, BK are not wicket taking bowlers. Good for up to 2 wickets maximum.
 
fact that these kinds of threads are now proliferating on PP and not leading to any clear conclusion in favor of Pakistan on a Pak forum shows how far Indian bowlers have come in the last few years... Give India five more years and there won't be any doubt even on PP about who has the best bowling attack between India and Pak. It is already clear for most of the neutral fans and can be objectively/factually shown that Indian bowlers in general and fast bowlers in particular are doing pretty well..
 
And the team above us would beat us 8 times out of 10. We are a tier two team along with Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and West Indies. New Zealand is in the "in-between tier" and South Africa seems to be heading that way as well.

However, both New Zealand and South Africa are better than us and would beat us in most series in any conditions. Speaking of Limited Overs of course, we will continue to be competitive against all teams in the UAE in Tests.

India is the only team that will annihilate us in Tests in the UAE.

Aus might do well in March next year in UAE. they did quite well in India and if Australia puts their mind to and prepare well, like they did for India tour, they will be pretty competitive and might end up surprising Pakistan. I really doubt Australia will do that as most of their focus would have shifted to World cup.

By the way why are Pak playing ODIs this year and tests next year with AUstralia? it would have been better other way around and playing ODI next year would have helped WC preparations..
 
Rohit is a sitting duck against inswingers against any bowler at the beginning of his innings. He struggled against Boult too who took him out LBW or bowled with the inswinging delivery from left hand pacers. I remember Rohit struggling in IPL also against similar deliveries.

Rohit is not known for his technique and he needs a lot of luck in the first 20 balls he faces. If he survives, then he will go on to make a big score.

that is true with most of the players, especially if that inswinger is bowled by a left armer.. it is not easy to play them for a right hander and Rohit anyway has a very lose technique
 
We can thump SL, BD and WI day and night.

Do you think our performance in NZ was our best ability? Babar had a shocker and if he performed we would have probably lost 3-2. If Inzi selected a decent squad we could have even won the series.

We aren’t minnows at all.

Don't be so sure.. If Asia cup happens, i expect one of them to beat Pakistan comfortably and mostly SL. They have a good nucleus for their new team and they will gel in few months.. they play lot of cricket and that will help them to improve faster
 
Don't be so sure.. If Asia cup happens, i expect one of them to beat Pakistan comfortably and mostly SL. They have a good nucleus for their new team and they will gel in few months.. they play lot of cricket and that will help them to improve faster

They have garbage bowling. Babar, even Malik and Hafeez could feast on them, as they all have.

And Amir, Hasan and Junaid can rip through them easily. Especially as it’s in Asia Shadab will also be a key.

If they win it’s a fluke :)
 
They can afford to play Pandya as their third seamer because they have two outstanding leg-spinners and a world class fast bowler in Bumrah. They can afford to weaken their bowling to capitalize on Pandya's batting potential.

They have a very good crop of young pacers coming up and are certainly ahead of us now.

Pandya bowls approximately 7 to 8 overs every match.. he has strike rate of 42, average of 37 and economy rate of 5.5.. it basically translates to sometime like 8-0-43-1. That is perfectly good returns for a fifth bowler when average ODI scores are like 290+, and as a fifth bowler contributes with bat like 15(10), electrifying fielding resulting in at least one excellent catch or run out every other match.. That is very very good returns for any all rounder and India will continue to play him. I am not yet convinced about his technique but he will improve and do well in LOIs and tests in India..
 
Don't be so sure.. If Asia cup happens, i expect one of them to beat Pakistan comfortably and mostly SL. They have a good nucleus for their new team and they will gel in few months.. they play lot of cricket and that will help them to improve faster
Pakistan massacred this same team recently. 8-0 in LOIs and most of the matches were so one-sided, we were under the delusion that these young players will beat New Zealand in New Zealand. Pakistan is in a weird position in LOI cricket, where they are not good enough to beat the top five sides consistently while they are good enough to hand a hammering to the bottom three.
 
Indian and Pakistani pace bowlers range between 135 and 145 KPH (consistently.)

That is not fast bowling. Fast bowling is around 150 or more consistently.

So it is meaningless to look for who is faster. It's like comparing a Civic and a Corolla on speed - good cars but speed isn't there thing.

If we rephrase the question 'who's medium fast bowlers are better?', now that's a debate!
 
They have garbage bowling. Babar, even Malik and Hafeez could feast on them, as they all have.

And Amir, Hasan and Junaid can rip through them easily. Especially as it’s in Asia Shadab will also be a key.

If they win it’s a fluke :)

we will see.. this is ODI we are talking about.. you will see Pak losing to one of them easily.. that is my prediction.. no point fighting about it.. lets see 8 months down the like if that happens.. If asia cup doesn't happen that same prediction holds good for WC next year..
 
Also while India might have faster bowlers as compared to Pakistan right now, the definition of fast bowling has taken a beating since Akhtar and Lee left. Besides Starc and Ferguson, there are no genuine speedsters in world cricket at the moment. Pretty much every team in the top ten sides in the world, excluding Bangladesh, have bowlers who can bowl up to 145 kph.
 
Hasan has easily clocked 145+ kph. I'm pretty certain he's hit 147kph numerous times...goes to show why Indians shouldn't be judge of phaaast bowling. Calling Hasan medium while Bumrah is fast/fast medium...what a joke.

Please show me the proofs that Hasan Ali has clocked 145plus easily and 147 numerous times.
 
Well they will certainly receive a “reality check” when a team negates their spinners.

Bumrah, BK are not wicket taking bowlers. Good for up to 2 wickets maximum.

Bumrah is the number 1 ranked ODI bowler. Sorry but you cant change itm
 
I clearly said, on song.

Junaid wasn’t there in NZ and Amir and Hasan were carrying niggles.

Anyway it was mainly our batting, we restricted them to chasable totals.

More and more excuses. There is a reason why Pakistan is ranked 5th in ODIs.
 
I posted this in another thread also.

Whenever someone's questions Pakistan bowling resources Pakistan come up with another great bowler. There was a time when Cheema, Bhatti, Anwar Ali all of them were bowling together and fans were thinking Pakistan main talent khatam hai then suddenly they got bowlers like Irfan, Sohail, Hassan, much improved Junaid, Shinwari and Amir. Shaheen Shah will be Pakistan's next lethal weapon in cricket field.

The reason they aren't taking 200 wickets in test cricket because of the competition. Pakistan selectors have got too many bowlers to choose from just like India have got batsman. Pakistan has a pace bowling culture they will keep producing fast bowlers. Chances of Pakistan producing another Shoaib Akhtar are as good as India producing another Kohli. Don't worry about that.

The reason why no Pakistani fast bowler has taken 200 test wickets since Waqar is because no one has been good enough to last that long. The Pakistani test attack has been carried by Kaneria Ajmal and now Shah. Lol at they have too many options.

Irfan? Sohail? Lol how old they are any idea?

Hassan Amir just lost to NZ 5-0

Shinwari is unknown as he hasnot played enough.

Right now the only Pakistani bowler who has performed is Hassan and he is fast medium.

India produced Gavaskar then Tendulkar and Dravid and then Kohli. With them you had Amarnath Vengsarkar Azhar Ganguly Sehwag Laxman Pujara. These are all test batsman with 4k plus test runs and 40 plus avg.

Pakistan really havent had a fast bowler since Waqar who has performed at the required level for long enough. Thats the bitter truth. And its easy to say that since India got Kohli Pakistan will get a Akhtar. Well their U19 team didnt have a tearaway.
 
The reason no Pakistani pacer has taken more than 200 wickets since Waqar is because we hardly play test cricket and when we do we mainly play it on graveyards in the UAE which are a disgrace to the game.

But no ok. Carry on chest thumping CJ, seeing as you can’t accept any logic or reason ever.
 
O bhai kaunsay fast bowlers? Pandya plays as their 3rd seamer :))

All their “resources” that have debuted so far have looked extremely average. E.g. like that Siraj guy who got tonked on debut.


Because he is a AR and we have 2 very good wrist spinners.

Btw what was the top speed of Pakistani bowlers in the U19?
 
Because he is a AR and we have 2 very good wrist spinners.

Btw what was the top speed of Pakistani bowlers in the U19?

Not every team will play spin as badly as SA played your spinners.

And yeah Mohammad Musa clocked 146. Don’t know about the others top speed but Shaheen was operating in early 140s most of the time.
 
The reason no Pakistani pacer has taken more than 200 wickets since Waqar is because we hardly play test cricket and when we do we mainly play it on graveyards in the UAE which are a disgrace to the game.

But no ok. Carry on chest thumping CJ, seeing as you can’t accept any logic or reason ever.

Waqar made his debut in 1989, he retired in 2003. Pakistan shifted to UAE in 2009. Saqlain and Kaneria took 200 plus wickets since then. Ajmal was on his way before his ban and Shah will likely do it. Problem is not number of tests, but simply fast bowlers not being able to perform at a good level for a good length of time.

Waqar Younis and Wasim Akram made life hell for batsmen on UAE like pitches. Why? Because they were that damn good. Unless Pakistanis realise that they do have a problem they wont be able to fix it. Another great fast bowler wont fall from the sky.
 
Waqar made his debut in 1989, he retired in 2003. Pakistan shifted to UAE in 2009. Saqlain and Kaneria took 200 plus wickets since then. Ajmal was on his way before his ban and Shah will likely do it. Problem is not number of tests, but simply fast bowlers not being able to perform at a good level for a good length of time.

Waqar Younis and Wasim Akram made life hell for batsmen on UAE like pitches. Why? Because they were that damn good. Unless Pakistanis realise that they do have a problem they wont be able to fix it. Another great fast bowler wont fall from the sky.

It is extremely unlikely that bowlers of the calibre of Wasim and Waqar will ever emerge again.

You can’t “develop” that kind of talent, those once in a generation bowlers do fall from the sky.
 
Not every team will play spin as badly as SA played your spinners.

And yeah Mohammad Musa clocked 146. Don’t know about the others top speed but Shaheen was operating in early 140s most of the time.

Which team will play spinners better?

Nagarkoti clocked 149 and Mavi clocked 146 and Nagarkoti regularly clocked 90mph and Mavi 140k plus. Guess it tells you which team had faster bowlers.
 
Which team will play spinners better?

Nagarkoti clocked 149 and Mavi clocked 146 and Nagarkoti regularly clocked 90mph and Mavi 140k plus. Guess it tells you which team had faster bowlers.

Teams will now thoroughly prepare against India’s wrist spinners and have strategies to combat them.

Nice, you guys got some fast bowlers. Let’s see if they make it at international level. So far guys like Siraj, Thakur who have been hyped up have looked very average.
 
It is extremely unlikely that bowlers of the calibre of Wasim and Waqar will ever emerge again.

You can’t “develop” that kind of talent, those once in a generation bowlers do fall from the sky.

Aussies had a line of fast bowlers and they even now have 3 very good fast bowlers. Saffers are not far back. Indians have their batsman. Pakistan suddenly seems to have lost the way. Dependence on spinners like Ajmal and Shah. Hyping up avg fast bowlers
And a poor domestic structure where mediocre bowlers become world beaters. All this seems to have stemmed the flow.

You can either live in past and deny there is a problem or you can accept there is a problem and think how to solve it.
 
Teams will now thoroughly prepare against India’s wrist spinners and have strategies to combat them.

Nice, you guys got some fast bowlers. Let’s see if they make it at international level. So far guys like Siraj, Thakur who have been hyped up have looked very average.

Playing spin is not learnt in a day. Either you develop it over years or you dont.

Please who hyped up Siraj or Thakur? And Siraj's performsnces have mostly been in 4 day matches. God knows why he played T20s.
 
The reason no Pakistani pacer has taken more than 200 wickets since Waqar is because we hardly play test cricket and when we do we mainly play it on graveyards in the UAE which are a disgrace to the game.

But no ok. Carry on chest thumping CJ, seeing as you can’t accept any logic or reason ever.

Waqar retired in 2003 and Pak has played around 120 test matches since then. plenty of time for a bowler to debut and take 200 wickets. Since then two Indian pace bowlers have taken more than 200 wickets and the highest from Pak is Umar Gul who average similar to the top two Indian pacers. Infact among 6 players who have taken atleast 100 test wickets or more since Waqar retirement four are Indians and two are still playing and have atleast five more years left in them
 
Aussies had a line of fast bowlers and they even now have 3 very good fast bowlers. Saffers are not far back. Indians have their batsman. Pakistan suddenly seems to have lost the way. Dependence on spinners like Ajmal and Shah. Hyping up avg fast bowlers
And a poor domestic structure where mediocre bowlers become world beaters. All this seems to have stemmed the flow.

You can either live in past and deny there is a problem or you can accept there is a problem and think how to solve it.

Obviously, domestic cricket is a disgrace and needs a major overhaul. No one has ever denied that.

We currently don’t even have a “test attack” but our limited overs attack is the best on their day.
 
Obviously, domestic cricket is a disgrace and needs a major overhaul. No one has ever denied that.

We currently don’t even have a “test attack” but our limited overs attack is the best on their day.

"On their day" every attack will do great. Thats not the point. Here its about doing good consistently and only Hassan has done it in recent past.
 
Waqar retired in 2003 and Pak has played around 120 test matches since then. plenty of time for a bowler to debut and take 200 wickets. Since then two Indian pace bowlers have taken more than 200 wickets and the highest from Pak is Umar Gul who average similar to the top two Indian pacers. Infact among 6 players who have taken atleast 100 test wickets or more since Waqar retirement four are Indians and two are still playing and have atleast five more years left in them

Since 2000 how many Pakistani fast bowlers have managed 50 tests?
 
"On their day" every attack will do great. Thats not the point. Here its about doing good consistently and only Hassan has done it in recent past.

Only Bumrah and Hasan have been consistent in limited overs over the last 2 years or so.

Junaid was getting it back but got injured before NZ. Idk about Amir - he’s got the pace, control but his swing isn’t there and his line and length isn’t right.
 
Dunno about faster, but they seem to be on par quality wise. Hasan and Bumrah are at a similar level atm. Shami is probably better than Amir (definitely post-ban Amir), though hasn't been featuring in ODIs for a while. And B Kumar and Yadav are probably superior to Junaid and Raees.

It's strange at this point in ODIs it seems India are ahead in every aspect, batting, fielding, spin bowling, wicketkeeping, even pace bowling now. Usually there's been at least one aspect we've looked better than India in. Though not necessarily doom and gloom, haven't been this optimistic about our ODI fortunes for a while, we look like a team on the way up. Our batting in particular despite the NZ aberration has been it's strongest for a long time, batsmen are averaging in their 50s or 40s. Not the usual low 30s we came to expect 5-10 years ago. And we're not carrying a wicketkeeper who is both poor with the gloves and averages mid 20s anymore in Kamran which is great. Future is very bright IMO.
 
I posted this in another thread also.

Whenever someone's questions Pakistan bowling resources Pakistan come up with another great bowler. There was a time when Cheema, Bhatti, Anwar Ali all of them were bowling together and fans were thinking Pakistan main talent khatam hai then suddenly they got bowlers like Irfan, Sohail, Hassan, much improved Junaid, Shinwari and Amir. Shaheen Shah will be Pakistan's next lethal weapon in cricket field.

The reason they aren't taking 200 wickets in test cricket because of the competition. Pakistan selectors have got too many bowlers to choose from just like India have got batsman. Pakistan has a pace bowling culture they will keep producing fast bowlers. Chances of Pakistan producing another Shoaib Akhtar are as good as India producing another Kohli. Don't worry about that.

Funny! That competition you are talking about doesnt seem to show anywhere! Do you really mean to say guys like Irfan , Sohail and Amir have been great bowlers? At best, on occassions they have been above average, nothing more than that. Hassan is a nice prospect but too early to say anything.

What used to happen in the past is not guaranteed to be happening in the future. Not with Pakistani bowling. So I am not sure what are you talking about.
 
Shinwari is another medium/medium-fast bowler. [MENTION=134981]Bhaag Viru Bhaag[/MENTION]
The speed just isn’t there.
 
We are not producing any speedsters anymore. I would say it's about equal with India in terms of speed. By India's standards this could be their best pace attack ever! Understand that their fast bowling standards have always been low.
 
Funny! That competition you are talking about doesnt seem to show anywhere! Do you really mean to say guys like Irfan , Sohail and Amir have been great bowlers? At best, on occassions they have been above average, nothing more than that. Hassan is a nice prospect but too early to say anything.

What used to happen in the past is not guaranteed to be happening in the future. Not with Pakistani bowling. So I am not sure what are you talking about.
Ask Rohit Sharma if Amir is just above average. He averages 5.33 against Amir in all formats of the game against him so far. I guess Sharma is not a good enough batsman to get out to a rubbish bowler like Amir time and time again?

Pakistan's bowling won them a tournament recently. It demolished India in the most emphatic fashion possible in a final. I would expect Indian fans to be a bit humble, or face the music when the said demolition happens. As I rememeber, only 2-3 Indians were left on this board after that defeat. I would worry about giving up the streak to this new loom Pakistan, since the younger guys don't seem to give two hoots about the 'reputations' of any of your 'stars'.
 
Ask Rohit Sharma if Amir is just above average. He averages 5.33 against Amir in all formats of the game against him so far. I guess Sharma is not a good enough batsman to get out to a rubbish bowler like Amir time and time again?

Pakistan's bowling won them a tournament recently. It demolished India in the most emphatic fashion possible in a final. I would expect Indian fans to be a bit humble, or face the music when the said demolition happens. As I rememeber, only 2-3 Indians were left on this board after that defeat. I would worry about giving up the streak to this new loom Pakistan, since the younger guys don't seem to give two hoots about the 'reputations' of any of your 'stars'.

The kind of free amusement that you give to me in this forum by talking about CT Final in every single thread is beyond my comprehension. But what you don't talk about is - In the same Tournament, Pak lost against India in the first match, 11-0 win streak, and well! After the CT Final, the same Pak bowling couldn't win a single ODI in 5 match series against a minnow NZ side. But yes! You would talk only about the CT final for the next 100 years cause you have no other laurels to talk about! Keep it going and I shall relish my popcorn time here!
 
The kind of free amusement that you give to me in this forum by talking about CT Final in every single thread is beyond my comprehension. But what you don't talk about is - In the same Tournament, Pak lost against India in the first match, 11-0 win streak, and well! After the CT Final, the same Pak bowling couldn't win a single ODI in 5 match series against a minnow NZ side. But yes! You would talk only about the CT final for the next 100 years cause you have no other laurels to talk about! Keep it going and I shall relish my popcorn time here!
Thats because majority of the time I'm replying to Indian posters who do not have the decency to be humble after the hammering they got from Pakistan in a FINAL. Not a group stage match, a final. Don't tell me to talk about what and for how long. Also try to remember the hypocrisy where Indian fans lorded the CT 13 over us in this very forum till the WC2015.

What did your superstar bowling attack achieve the last time you were in NZ? 4-0?even with that batting line-up. And I expect it to be the same the next time you tour NZ too. Pakistan's bowling actually kept them in the game in most of the games of the series, the batting lost us the series. Also incase you forgot, we bowled NZ out for 150 on the same ground in which 245 was recently chased down. So before you and your kind come around talking smack about the Pakistan bowling attack, worry about this young lot giving a similar thrashing to you in next year's World Cup. I can see Pakistan breaking the streak this WC.
 
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Ask Rohit Sharma if Amir is just above average. He averages 5.33 against Amir in all formats of the game against him so far. I guess Sharma is not a good enough batsman to get out to a rubbish bowler like Amir time and time again?

Pakistan's bowling won them a tournament recently. It demolished India in the most emphatic fashion possible in a final. I would expect Indian fans to be a bit humble, or face the music when the said demolition happens. As I rememeber, only 2-3 Indians were left on this board after that defeat. I would worry about giving up the streak to this new loom Pakistan, since the younger guys don't seem to give two hoots about the 'reputations' of any of your 'stars'.

If you are happy living in the past and keep on day dreaming about CT Finals, then good for you. For others, that doesnt matter too much. Another day, another time and the roles could be reversed. I would go with the present situation and what is in front of us, and Pakistan bowling offers nothing much.

You only have to go back to as far as NZ ODI series! Nuff said!
 
For past many years, Indian pacers have not only been vastly superior statistically (despite bowling on the flattest tracks), but have been quicker as well. Both these facts can be verified in seconds, so what are we debating here?? :20:
 
Thats because majority of the time I'm replying to Indian posters who do not have the decency to be humble after the hammering they got from Pakistan in a FINAL. Not a group stage match, a final. Don't tell me to talk about what and for how long.Also try to remember the hypocrisy where Indian fans lorded the CT 13 over us in this very forum till the WC2015.

What did your superstar bowling attack achieve the last time you were in NZ? 4-0?even with that batting line-up. And I expect it to be the same the next time you tour NZ too. Pakistan's bowling actually kept them in the game in most of the games of the series, the batting lost us the series. Also incase you forgot, we bowled NZ out for 150 on the same ground in which 245 was recently chased down. So before you and your kind come around talking smack about the Pakistan bowling attack, worry about this young lot giving a similar thrashing to you in next year's World Cup. I can see Pakistan breaking the streak this WC.

Keep dreaming about your YOUNG PAK BREAKING the WC streak and reality will hit you hard soon! Until that thanks for your free amusement!
 
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Playing spin is not learnt in a day. Either you develop it over years or you dont.

Please who hyped up Siraj or Thakur? And Siraj's performsnces have mostly been in 4 day matches. God knows why he played T20s.

besides what's wrong in hyping up siraj and thakur, Hassan was smashed for more than 100 runs in 10 overs if I am not mistaken, how many matches has Siraj played or thakur for that matter, he took a 4fer by the way
 
We are not producing any speedsters anymore. I would say it's about equal with India in terms of speed. By India's standards this could be their best pace attack ever! Understand that their fast bowling standards have always been low.

You are right. We didn't have a fast bowling culture and superstars to look up to. No matter how arrogant some of my fellow indian fans have become because of few upcoming good bowlers. Fact is they all want to see next Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Imran Khan, Shoaib Akhtar coming out of India. Even indian bowlers idolise Pakistani bowlers. No one says that they want to become the next Srinath or Zaheer.
 
You are right. We didn't have a fast bowling culture and superstars to look up to. No matter how arrogant some of my fellow indian fans have become because of few upcoming good bowlers. Fact is they all want to see next Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Imran Khan, Shoaib Akhtar coming out of India. Even indian bowlers idolise Pakistani bowlers. No one says that they want to become the next Srinath or Zaheer.

Same ways most of Pak upcoming batsman made SRT and Virat (only for batting ) has role models.

Fact: India has batting legacy, Pak has fast bowling legacy ! Mutual admiration nothing wrong ...:ashwin
 
You are right. We didn't have a fast bowling culture and superstars to look up to. No matter how arrogant some of my fellow indian fans have become because of few upcoming good bowlers. Fact is they all want to see next Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Imran Khan, Shoaib Akhtar coming out of India. Even indian bowlers idolise Pakistani bowlers. No one says that they want to become the next Srinath or Zaheer.

Whats wrong in speaking about the upcoming talents in India? Why would you think it makes the Indian posters arrogant? They only reply to comments and innumerable threads here calling Indian bowlers 'trundlers'. Thats not arrogance to you?

The fact is, those 4 names you took are the only names pakistan has. Time has changed and its been over 10 yrs that the last of those bowlers played for Pakistan. So the chances of a young talent as good as those is just as high in India as it is in Pakistan. The trend tells you that. But if you want to keep looking at history, and calling Indians arrogant, while ignoring the atrocious remarks on Indian players, so be it!
 
Keep dreaming about your YOUNG PAK BREAKING the WC streak and reality will hit you hard soon! Until that thanks for your free amusement!
Yeah I remember you saying the same thing before the CT final. This Pakistan team has it in them to take your precious streak away.
 
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If you are happy living in the past and keep on day dreaming about CT Finals, then good for you. For others, that doesnt matter too much. Another day, another time and the roles could be reversed. I would go with the present situation and what is in front of us, and Pakistan bowling offers nothing much.

You only have to go back to as far as NZ ODI series! Nuff said!
Watch cricket other than India's first then come and talk. Don't post unnecessarily inciting discussion for stuff you do not know anything about. Pakistan bowlers kept us in the game in most of the matches, while it was the batting that lost us the series. They bowled out NZ for 150 on a ground where 245 was chased down recently. This bowling attack won Pakistan a tournament, which concluded a few months back. Your bowling choked and conceded 338 against an opponent you were supposed to beat 'easily'.

And this team is good enough to beat the living daylights out of India once again, like they did the last time we met. What was it, 158 runs? In a final?
Koi sharam hoti, koi haya hoti hai.
 
Watch cricket other than India's first then come and talk. Don't post unnecessarily inciting discussion for stuff you do not know anything about. Pakistan bowlers kept us in the game in most of the matches, while it was the batting that lost us the series. They bowled out NZ for 150 on a ground where 245 was chased down recently. This bowling attack won Pakistan a tournament, which concluded a few months back. Your bowling choked and conceded 338 against an opponent you were supposed to beat 'easily'.

And this team is good enough to beat the living daylights out of India once again, like they did the last time we met. What was it, 158 runs? In a final?
Koi sharam hoti, koi haya hoti hai.

Keep the discussion on cricket, why personal attacks ?
 
I have played with pakistanis in local clubs. Thin, chubby, tall, short doesn't matter all wanted to bowl fast. But fast bowling is a thankless job. You could hurt yourself , sit out for months. With so many leagues going around getting injured frequently will hurt you financially. I am not sure they think that deep to decide not to bowl fast. But there is an air of conservatism visible in their approach. They probably can. But apart from Wahab Riaz who i consider an express pace bowler others don't fall under the category.
 
Some guys post have nothing to post other than one match. Behaving like a true minnow team supporter. India beat your superstar team so many times in world event but we do not brag about one match so much. Koi sharam hoti hai, koi haya hoti hai...😂 behaving truely like a minnow team supporter. On topic nowadays both team have not much to separate in bowling.
 
Watch cricket other than India's first then come and talk. Don't post unnecessarily inciting discussion for stuff you do not know anything about. Pakistan bowlers kept us in the game in most of the matches, while it was the batting that lost us the series. They bowled out NZ for 150 on a ground where 245 was chased down recently. This bowling attack won Pakistan a tournament, which concluded a few months back. Your bowling choked and conceded 338 against an opponent you were supposed to beat 'easily'.

And this team is good enough to beat the living daylights out of India once again, like they did the last time we met. What was it, 158 runs? In a final?
Koi sharam hoti, koi haya hoti hai.

Since 2006 WI has won 2 T20WCs and 1CT.

Thats more than what Pakistan has won. Infact they won a T20WC in 2016.

But no one calls them a good team.

Clinching to one win lol. Pakistan ranks 5th in ODIs and 6th in tests India is number one in Tests and ODIs. India is a much better team. Kuch to sharm hoti hai, kuch to haya hoti hai.
 
Pakistan ranks 5th in ODIs and 6th in tests

6th in the ODI and 7th in the test format.

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On this thread, not sure why so much discussion. Faster can be factually checked and no need to have long discussions.
 
6th in the ODI and 7th in the test format.

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On this thread, not sure why so much discussion. Faster can be factually checked and no need to have long discussions.
Can you guide me on how to check average bowling speed for a bowler?
 
/Pace isn't everything/

It's everything when your bowlers (read: our) don't have it.
 
The reason why no Pakistani fast bowler has taken 200 test wickets since Waqar is because no one has been good enough to last that long. The Pakistani test attack has been carried by Kaneria Ajmal and now Shah. Lol at they have too many options.

Irfan? Sohail? Lol how old they are any idea?

Hassan Amir just lost to NZ 5-0

Shinwari is unknown as he hasnot played enough.

Right now the only Pakistani bowler who has performed is Hassan and he is fast medium.

India produced Gavaskar then Tendulkar and Dravid and then Kohli. With them you had Amarnath Vengsarkar Azhar Ganguly Sehwag Laxman Pujara. These are all test batsman with 4k plus test runs and 40 plus avg.

Pakistan really havent had a fast bowler since Waqar who has performed at the required level for long enough. Thats the bitter truth. And its easy to say that since India got Kohli Pakistan will get a Akhtar. Well their U19 team didnt have a tearaway.

Lol yeah India will produce another Kohli and Akhtar as well. Are you happy now?
 
Watch cricket other than India's first then come and talk. Don't post unnecessarily inciting discussion for stuff you do not know anything about. Pakistan bowlers kept us in the game in most of the matches, while it was the batting that lost us the series. They bowled out NZ for 150 on a ground where 245 was chased down recently. This bowling attack won Pakistan a tournament, which concluded a few months back. Your bowling choked and conceded 338 against an opponent you were supposed to beat 'easily'.

And this team is good enough to beat the living daylights out of India once again, like they did the last time we met. What was it, 158 runs? In a final?
Koi sharam hoti, koi haya hoti hai.

I have seen all the NZ matches as well as all Pak matches before that. The Pakistani bowlers do run very fast to bowl in 130's. And their performance has been mediocre at best. Since mediocrity is your current standard, they indeed have done well ( going by your standards).
 
I have seen all the NZ matches as well as all Pak matches before that. The Pakistani bowlers do run very fast to bowl in 130's. And their performance has been mediocre at best. Since mediocrity is your current standard, they indeed have done well ( going by your standards).

Can you tell me what your pacers have done? It has been your spinners winning you matches.
 
Besides Wahab, when was the last time Amir and Hassan bowled an entire over at 145+. Genuinely asking as they both seem to hover around the 140 mark with the occasional one hitting 145

Don't look too far, just check out Amir's speeds in his last two International Matches. Hasan was also quite quick in the same series but was quicker in the BPL.

As far as the youngsters are concerned, in the semi-final of the u19 WC Musa, who was regarded as the slowest out of the Pace Trio against Aus series one month prior, was racking up speeds up to 147 in his second spell (speeds weren't registering until midway of the first innings) and was as fast Nagrkhoti in that match. Shaheen and Arshad (visibly discomforted in the match) were easily livelier in the previous matches. I don't think we should give weight to too many of these speeds in u19 WC because the guns, as I initially suspected, were probably overclocked. In what world were Musa and Nagarkhoti bowling as quick as or quicker than a Rabada, Cummins or Starc, operating in the range 142-148 kph? I highly doubt that all of a sudden, in a space of two years we went from one 140+ bowler in the whole u19 WC tournament to at least one in each team participating in the cup. The discrepancy is too large to discount on just coincidence or on NZ's bowling conditions.

Apart from that, all I keep hearing is that India has 10 or so bowlers operating at above 145. I highly doubt that. The fastest bowl bowled by an Indian International bowler in the previous year was 148 kph by Bumrah (according to BCCI). Even Amir has racked up to that speed a few times in the t10, t20 series vs NZ and the last t20 vs Sri Lanka. It's quite mind-boggling that India had 10 145+ bowlers at their disposal and yet sent only two for training in a series where Fast Bowling reaches its epitome i.e. South Africa. That number might be true, but I choose remain circumspect until some measurable evidence is produced. The bowlers are most probably in the range of 140-145, which is also quite exciting but Pakistan also has hands on quite a few youngsters in that range: The u19 trio, Sameen Gul, Zia ul Haq, Mohammad Hasnain, Haris Rauf, Shaoor Ahmed (6ft8), Salman Irshad just to name a few.

Is it just the media attention or is India actually improving its Pace Battery in Exponential Surges? Only time will tell. But one thing is for sure, exciting times ahead.
 
Lol! Some people are here making it like Pak bowlers are bowling in 120's. All of them including Faheem and Rumman can bowl well over 140Kph. Hassan, Amir and Shinwari touch 145 Kph with odd ones. Check the highlights of NZ and Srl series if you want proofs. :uks
 
THere is no Shoaib or lee anymore.. closest we have to them is Starc who on his day is a better bowler than both of them in LOi’s.. Ferguson is like Sami slightly behind Lee, Shoaib and Starc in terms of pace..

Indian and Pakistani bowlers currently as similar in pace anyone saying Pakistan is ahead or India is ahead Ian just biased.. Even if there is some difference it will be very negligible..
 
I can bet that none of India's fast bowlers, especially Bumrah are going to be as fast or as good as they are now at the WC. Pakistani bowlers are smart and it's as simple as that. Wahab and Amir can easily and consistently bowl over 145 and Hasan and Usman can consistently bowl at 145 but they save it for tournaments, as we've seen before.
 
In the early 2000s Ajit Agarkar was quite possibly the fastest Indian bowler. Srinath had reduced his speed, although he was genuinely fast in late 90s. Touched 150 twice.
Zak was fast too, but was a bit inconsistent with his speed.
 
Did some more research:
At the CT17
Bumrah bowled between 145.83 and 148.06, 11 times
Yadav, although he played very less iirc, bowled 148+ and 147+ at 2 occasions
Pandya too bowled 145 plus

145 is 90mph
 
Seems like I have riled up quite a few Indian fans here. The narrative has changed from "India produces faster bowlers than Pakistan, because India rullezz and Pakistan suckzzz" to "India is a better ODI and Test team than Pakistan, because India rulezzz and Pakistan suckzzz".

My point about having some decency to not bash a bowling attack that humbled you lot a short while ago, has flown above the heads of most of the trolls in this thread.

Also the bloke thats telling me to not get personal will do well to look at the arrogance of the Indian trolls in this thread. The entire premise of [MENTION=95477]Rightarmfast[/MENTION]'s posts are based on Pakistan's bowling performance in NZ recently. Conveniently devaluing the fact that this bowling attack was the envy of world cricket throughout the Champions Trophy. What did your superstars achieve when they got a 4-0 hiding in NZ the last time you toured?
 
Seems like I have riled up quite a few Indian fans here. The narrative has changed from "India produces faster bowlers than Pakistan, because India rullezz and Pakistan suckzzz" to "India is a better ODI and Test team than Pakistan, because India rulezzz and Pakistan suckzzz".

My point about having some decency to not bash a bowling attack that humbled you lot a short while ago, has flown above the heads of most of the trolls in this thread.

Also the bloke thats telling me to not get personal will do well to look at the arrogance of the Indian trolls in this thread. The entire premise of [MENTION=95477]Rightarmfast[/MENTION]'s posts are based on Pakistan's bowling performance in NZ recently. Conveniently devaluing the fact that this bowling attack was the envy of world cricket throughout the Champions Trophy. What did your superstars achieve when they got a 4-0 hiding in NZ the last time you toured?

What happens in the past, stays in the past! We are not going to count WI team as a strong force because of their dominance in 80's. The CT you keep talking of, it wasnt as if the Pakistani bowlers got all the team out for 0. The same team lost to India too!

Its hard to come to terms with the fact that the one thing Pakistani held dear to them is no longer true!
There was a time when Pakistani pacers were quick, mostly in mid 80's till late 90's. However the roles have reversed. Not only are Indian bowlers better, they are faster than Pakistani bowlers. About the Indian team being better, well... Do I really need to go there?
 
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What happens in the past, stays in the past! We are not going to count WI team as a strong force because of their dominance in 80's. The CT you keep talking of, it wasnt as if the Pakistani bowlers got all the team out for 0. The same team lost to India too!

Its hard to come to terms with the fact that the one thing Pakistani held dear to them is no longer true!
There was a time when Pakistani pacers were quick, mostly in mid 80's till late 90's. However the roles have reversed. Not only are Indian bowlers better, they are faster than Pakistani bowlers. About the Indian team being better, well... Do I really need to go there?
I can only laugh at such posts.
 
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You are right. We didn't have a fast bowling culture and superstars to look up to. No matter how arrogant some of my fellow indian fans have become because of few upcoming good bowlers. Fact is they all want to see next Wasim Akram, Waqar Younis, Imran Khan, Shoaib Akhtar coming out of India. Even indian bowlers idolise Pakistani bowlers. No one says that they want to become the next Srinath or Zaheer.

Thanks! You can add Sarfaraz Nawaz, Fazal Mehmood and Mo Zahid to our fast bowlers list. Zahid was probably the quickest off all but had to retire early due to injury. Our bowlers were fortunate enough to have Fazal sahib as a mentor and someone to look up to.
 
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