Does Pakistan still produce faster pace bowlers than India?

[BreadPakoda]

Thanks! You can add Sarfaraz Nawaz, Fazal Mehmood and Mo Zahid to our fast bowlers list. Zahid was probably the quickest off all but had to retire early due to injury. Our bowlers were fortunate enough to have Fazal sahib as a mentor and someone to look up to.

Sarfaraz Nawaz took part in speed bowling study by Dr Frank Pyke of the University of Western Australia, Perth.

His fastest ball clocked 121.7 kph. Imran Khan clocked 139.7 kph.

The data is public.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Junaid Khan started off as Fast bowler but now trundles at late 120s. Wonder what happened. He’s only 28.

 

[Syed1]

Junaid Khan started off as Fast bowler but now trundles at late 120s. Wonder what happened. He’s only 28.

You are a new chest thumper on this forum... he was hitting 140 clicks

 

[Chief Destroyer]

Junaid Khan started off as Fast bowler but now trundles at late 120s. Wonder what happened. He’s only 28.

No longer allowed to chuck.

 

[PakLFC]

Sarfaraz Nawaz took part in speed bowling study by Dr Frank Pyke of the University of Western Australia, Perth.

His fastest ball clocked 121.7 kph. Imran Khan clocked 139.7 kph.

The data is public.

You saying Sarfaraz and IK were not fast?

 

[BreadPakoda]

You saying Sarfaraz and IK were not fast?

IK was 18kph faster than Sarfraz, not sure why you’d bracket them together basis the numbers I shared.

On the other hand, looks like Sarfaraz indeed wasnt fast. As per the speed test his fastest delivery was in late 70s mph. Do you consider the test an aberration?

 

[PakLFC]

IK was 18kph faster than Sarfraz, not sure why you’d bracket them together basis the numbers I shared.

On the other hand, looks like Sarfaraz indeed wasnt fast. As per the speed test his fastest delivery was in late 70s mph. Do you consider the test an aberration?

Sarfaraz was fast when he was playing. The definition of a fast bowler has changed since the 1970's to what is became in the 1990's. I believe he was fast but not in the league of a Lillee or Thompson even in the 70's who were super fast!

 

[babajee]

I think we do....

 

[spiderreddy]

These stats are from IPL 2019

Saini, Prasidh, Mavi, Nagarkotti are genuine quicks. Hopefully at least one of them has a successful career

 

[Roaring40s]

View attachment 93562
View attachment 93564
These stats are from IPL 2019

Saini, Prasidh, Mavi, Nagarkotti are genuine quicks. Hopefully at least one of them has a successful career

Saini and Prasidh looked the best of new bowlers while Avesh Khan has some experience now and is not for behind. Although I feel he is more suitable for longer versions of the game.
Coming to current stock, I feel Bhuvi has lost his way slightly after increasing his speed. He requires obscure reasons like his once a year batting performances to be part of the team. Shami, as we know now (thanks to his wife) is at least 34 years old. I believe these two spots would be up for grabs in a couple of years. Ishant is also in his 30s but will last a couple years longer due to him not relying on pace. Umesh Yadav should be kept out of the team henceforth unless we are playing a truly meaningless match or most major quicks are injured.
If selectors plan it correctly and introduce one young quick per series on appropriate pitches, we will have a battery of 4-5 fast bowlers to replace them when Shami/Ishant retire.

 

[Majid Khan]

So not only India, but Sri Lanka now have quicker bowlers then Pakistan

 

[tyron_woodley]

So not only India, but Sri Lanka now have quicker bowlers then Pakistan

India have had quick bowlers since 2012. Post 2014 it's not even close.

 

[KingT]

India have had quick bowlers since 2012. Post 2014 it's not even close.

Delusional.
Pakistan had Wahab Riaz, Amir (who was quick till 2017), Irfan was quite quick too.

 

[KingT]

So not only India, but Sri Lanka now have quicker bowlers then Pakistan

Stop with the inferiority complex
[MENTION=133760]Abdullah719[/MENTION] can you please share the bowl speeds graph thing for both sides at the end of this match?
Thanks

 

[ethan hunt]

India have had quick bowlers since 2012. Post 2014 it's not even close.

Naseem shah was quicker than Starc in Australia let alone the indian medium pacers lol.

Hasnain alone is quicker than anyone in India tbh.

 

[KingT]

Naseem shah was quicker than Starc in Australia let alone the indian medium pacers lol.

Hasnain alone is quicker than anyone in India tbh.

When they get some compliments from Inferiority complex struck Pakistanis, they think they're at the top of the world lol.

 

[KingKhanXi]

More pace is overrated tbh. Wahab, Sami, Hasnain are biggest example. All three are same as Dinda. Nowadays batter don't fear pace.

 

[Captain caveman]

More pace is overrated tbh. Wahab, Sami, Hasnain are biggest example. All three are same as Dinda. Nowadays batter don't fear pace.

Only because pitches are dead pancakes.
Lets go to 80s Waca ground.

 

[KingKhanXi]

[MENTION=149691]Captain caveman[/MENTION] how old are you and how many matches with extreme pace bowlers you saw in 80's WACA pitch. Don't base your opinion on hearsay

 

[jeeteshssaxena]

Pakistan still has faster bowlers and their fast bowling future is safe coz of the two teens.
Our honeymoon period will be over in two or three years, we have not invested in any young bowler, bumrah is our only hope.
Selectors are opting for shardul instead of saini. Selectors need to select kamlesh and saini to ensure our fast bowling future.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Delusional.
Pakistan had Wahab Riaz, Amir (who was quick till 2017), Irfan was quite quick too.

yadav was quicker vs australia in 2014. go check his speeds.

bowling fast like a ****** is of no use. indian bowlers are fast and lethal. bumrah bowled quicker than all 3 of them in the 2018 series v australia.

 

[ethan hunt]

Meh. A one legged Wahab is still quicker than the indian pacers.
It took Ishanth and yadav years to turn into decent bowlers.
I am excited by the potential of the young guns like Naseem and Shaheen.

 

[Hyperion66]

If having faster bowlers means getting two extremely raw and underdeveloped bowlers to spearhead the test bowling attack, then no I am cool with what we have. As I said previously, Naseem, Shaheen, Hasnain and Musa are more of a case of desperate measures than talent. They can very well become ATGs one day but on current form they all belong in the domestics, none of them are world class, except perhaps Shaheen. Exposing teenaged undercooked bowlers against Smith and Warner will only earn praises in Pakistan.

 

[OmarKhan99]

Shaheen and Naseem are easily the best bowling talents under the age of 22, in my opinion. From what I noticed, both didn't go full throttle in an attempt to be more precise and accurate. In particular, you could clearly tell that Shaheen would put a lot more effort into some balls (Karunaratne's dismissal) as a variation. These guys are expected to bowl a lot more than they should be. We do require a proper 5th bowling option to alleviate the load. Once they bowl in short spells, especially Naseem, we'll see them bowling much better and quicker. Hopefully, if they do strengthen up with time, we have some dynamites on our hands.

The likes of Hasnain (quickest of the entire lot), Rauf, Musa and Shinwari are also excellent talents, and have been able to clock it up to 150+, 145+, 145+, 140+ (151 in the BBL earlier this year, but has recently sacrificed pace for accuracy) respectively. Each of these youngsters still needs lots of match practice to improve their lines, lengths and consistency, but they have all the basic ingredients and also the pace. Exciting times ahead!

 

[ExplicitAI]

Pak produces the better talent but India is much more professional in how they look after their players; Indian cricket is fully focused on winning each and every game. The thing is that in life you can't really cry over the things you don't have so you have to work with what you got, with those things in hand; you can achieve great things in life. India have invested a lot of money in their cricket and are lead by a great captain in Kohli who knows how to work with fast bowlers.

 

[Mesozoic]

India too have a plethora of young pacers who can bowl quick (145 avg). Guys like Mavi, Saini, Rajpoot, Avesh Khan, Prasidh etc can clock close to 150 regularly.

But , the thing is we are not that desparate to throw them in the deep end like Pakistan as we already have a potent (albeit not "quick") bowling attack for all conditions. But yes , I agree that Pak produces more quick bowlers on average than us.

 

[Abdullah719]

Try and stick to the topic please. Thread is not about which bowling attack is better.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Meh. A one legged Wahab is still quicker than the indian pacers.
It took Ishanth and yadav years to turn into decent bowlers.
I am excited by the potential of the young guns like Naseem and Shaheen.

yea for maybe a 4 over spell. Get out of here. indian bowlers are faster.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Pakistani fans think bowling 2 balls at 150 k is called fast bowling.

Pakistani bowlers have slightly higher peak fast bowling speed delivery but average speed is slower than the current crop of Indians.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Pak produces the better talent but India is much more professional in how they look after their players; Indian cricket is fully focused on winning each and every game. The thing is that in life you can't really cry over the things you don't have so you have to work with what you got, with those things in hand; you can achieve great things in life. India have invested a lot of money in their cricket and are lead by a great captain in Kohli who knows how to work with fast bowlers.

no. Talent is subjective. Indian bowlers are asked to focus more on accuracy at the max speed possible.

Pakistani bowlers focus on purely bowling at pace.

India have plenty of young fast bowlers but just because they are fast doesn't mean they are food. varun aaron alone bowls faster than almost every international player in the world. Will he get picked? no. he so trash.

 

[KingT]

Pakistani fans think bowling 2 balls at 150 k is called fast bowling.

Pakistani bowlers have slightly higher peak fast bowling speed delivery but average speed is slower than the current crop of Indians.

Naseem shah's average speed was higher than Starc's in the first test match so don' want ** you're on about smh

 

[tyron_woodley]

shivam mavi
prasidh krishna
avesh khan
navdeep saini
nathu singh
varun aaron
ankit rajpoot

all can bowl phaassst. prasidh and saini are seriously good talents. They will get some chances soon.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Naseem shah's average speed was higher than Starc's in the first test match so don' want ** you're on about smh

and bumrah was faster than naseem in the last series on average.
yadav in 2014 bowled at 144 on average.
aaron bowled 142 on average.

naseem is the best talent in the world right now but there have been bowlers in the past and present who have bowled faster on average.

No btw. starc was faster on average compared to naseem. I live in Australia I watched the first test. starc bowled at about 142 on average.

shaheen is fast at 140 on average. he can bowl long spells. now that is a serious talent.

shaheen and naseem is the future of pakistan. Hopefully they don't turn into A wahab though.

 

[pakistanisgreat]

We are no way close to indian when it comes to cricket. The are way ahead of us in the game. They have become so professional in the last 10 or so years. Whereas we have taken the step backward.

We have those teenagers but they are yet to prove themselves. At this moment is clearly ahead of us. They are in the league of Australia, England.

 

[ethan hunt]

and bumrah was faster than naseem in the last series on average.
yadav in 2014 bowled at 144 on average.
aaron bowled 142 on average.

naseem is the best talent in the world right now but there have been bowlers in the past and present who have bowled faster on average.

No btw. starc was faster on average compared to naseem. I live in Australia I watched the first test. starc bowled at about 142 on average.

shaheen is fast at 140 on average. he can bowl long spells. now that is a serious talent.

shaheen and naseem is the future of pakistan. Hopefully they don't turn into A wahab though.

Lol. Please share some sources.
Dont pull out numbers from thin air.
Wahab was quicker in both australia and england as well as world tournaments.
Naseem indeed was quicker than starc and the fastest bowler of that game.

 

[ethan hunt]

Pakistani fans think bowling 2 balls at 150 k is called fast bowling.

Pakistani bowlers have slightly higher peak fast bowling speed delivery but average speed is slower than the current crop of Indians.

Please post the speeds of your bowlers in this Odi series.
I am sure pakistani bowlers bowl quicker in tests than these guys do in limited overs.

 

[BreadPakoda]

naseem is the best talent in the world right now

On what basis is he more talented than the likes of Cummins, Bumrah, Hazlewood, Rabada?

 

[ExplicitAI]

no. Talent is subjective. Indian bowlers are asked to focus more on accuracy at the max speed possible.

Pakistani bowlers focus on purely bowling at pace.

India have plenty of young fast bowlers but just because they are fast doesn't mean they are food. varun aaron alone bowls faster than almost every international player in the world. Will he get picked? no. he so trash.

Yeah talent is subjective but I do feel it's countries like Aus, Pak, SA and NZ who consistently produce raw talent. Pak is leagues below India in terms of nurturing talent, this is why I feel India have evolved as a team over the decade and Pak has been left behind. If only our bowlers had the chance to grow up in a similar environment like India's then they'll flourish. Not just India but other top teams too.

 

[BreadPakoda]

Yeah talent is subjective but I do feel it's countries like Aus, Pak, SA and NZ who consistently produce raw talent. Pak is leagues below India in terms of nurturing talent, this is why I feel India have evolved as a team over the decade and Pak has been left behind. If only our bowlers had the chance to grow up in a similar environment like India's then they'll flourish. Not just India but other top teams too.

This was said only about Pakistan's batsmen till a few years ago, now people are saying this for their bowlers too.

I though Pakistan always had the environment to nurture bowlers and pass on the art of fast bowling to the next generations. From Imran to Akram to Akhtar and Asif. Sometimes I wonder what happened to the environment after that. Off late, have seen "raw talent" like Hasan Ali, Junaid, Rahat Ali, Tanvir, Faheem, Hasnain, Imran Khan, Sohail, Anwar Ali, Ruman Raees, Bhatti, Ehsan Adil, Abbas, Shinwari, Talha, etc. etc. etc. mostly just trundle and fizzle out in a few months. Then they have to go back to Wahab Riaz, who made his debut 11 years ago.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Yeah talent is subjective but I do feel it's countries like Aus, Pak, SA and NZ who consistently produce raw talent. Pak is leagues below India in terms of nurturing talent, this is why I feel India have evolved as a team over the decade and Pak has been left behind. If only our bowlers had the chance to grow up in a similar environment like India's then they'll flourish. Not just India but other top teams too.

pakistan lack the fitness level to compete vs the top boys at the moment. They need to work on it first because at the top level, most elite players are of similar calibre. That's where fitness makes a difference. India has plenty of raw talent, but there is a lot of politics involved in getting picked for the national team. Australia has a great school system and so does s.africa hence they will always produce good bowling talents as their pitches are conducive to producing fast bowling anyway.

pakistan is special because they produce talents despite playing on dry pitches. So does india.
Nurturing talent requires players to possess elite level fitness. Kohli made a difference to the Indian fitness training regime and its paying dividends. No reason why pakistan csnt do the same.

Starting off with NOT eating indian/Pakistani food in the first place.

 

[tyron_woodley]

On what basis is he more talented than the likes of Cummins, Bumrah, Hazlewood, Rabada?

best young talent I mean. shaheen and naseem. under 23 talent.

 

[HGhazanfar]

Sameen Gul
Naseem Shah
Shaheen Afridi
Musa Khan
M Hasnain
Akif Javed
Haris Rauf
Arshad Iqbal
Usman Shinwari

Doesnt seem too bad. On the other hand for India I can only think of Saini, Nagorkoti, Shivam Mavi

 

[Hyperion66]

Sameen Gul
Naseem Shah
Shaheen Afridi
Musa Khan
M Hasnain
Akif Javed
Haris Rauf
Arshad Iqbal
Usman Shinwari

Doesnt seem too bad. On the other hand for India I can only think of Saini, Nagorkoti, Shivam Mavi

Never seen Shaheen bowl 145+, he is 135-142ish on average. Shinwari was trundling his heart out against SL, was almost on per with Abbas lol. Musa is uber crap. Naseem is good and fast.

Rest I haven't seen enough to comment about.

 

[Flat_Track_Bully]

Not anymore. Current crop are abysmal by our standards. See how Naseem and Shaheen develop.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Navdeep Saini was clocked today bowling at 152.2KpH which is 94.57 MpH <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/INDvSL?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#INDvSL</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1214619910179033090?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 7, 2020</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Bhaijaan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-partner="tweetdeck"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Navdeep Saini was clocked today bowling at 152.2KpH which is 94.57 MpH <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/INDvSL?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#INDvSL</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Cricket?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Cricket</a></p>— Saj Sadiq (@Saj_PakPassion) <a href="https://twitter.com/Saj_PakPassion/status/1214619910179033090?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 7, 2020</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Modern diet has helped Indian athletes break the beef barrier to get on par with Pakistani pacers in terms of pace power.

 

[Duckworth Lewis]

Faster or not, a bowling attack of Amir, Hasan and Junaid is arguably the best in the world.

Funny. How times have changed.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Modern diet has helped Indian athletes break the beef barrier to get on par with Pakistani pacers in terms of pace power.

Indians were naturally strong for being vegetarians. Now that many eat meat, you see many fit and strong guys. No surprise here.

Farm boys are always naturally strong. city boys are soft.

 

[Danyaalr01]

Never seen Shaheen bowl 145+, he is 135-142ish on average. Shinwari was trundling his heart out against SL, was almost on per with Abbas lol. Musa is uber crap. Naseem is good and fast.

Rest I haven't seen enough to comment about.

I've seen him bowl 147 kph a few times.

 

[Danyaalr01]

The Indian pacers might currently be better than the current crop of Pakistani fast bowlers, but I would still take Naseem and Shaheen over any of the current Indian bowlers as they are still very young and have a good 8-10 years before they peak, and they are already highly skillful, fit and quick.

 

[Mean&Green]

Saini has good pace but who else has that pace in India haris rauf was the quickest bowler in Asia in t20s on average speed last year so answer is no Pakistan is still ahead in speed. Plus Saini gets hit a lot in IPL I’ve seen him get clobbered he was good today though pace is not everything just like height isn’t which has been proved by Bumrah and shami the two best bowlers in the world.

 

[Hyperion66]

I've seen him bowl 147 kph a few times.

I will take your word for it.

Shaheen has got the gift of height, 138-142kph deliveries released from that height and pitching on the right length is bound to trouble the batsmen more than the ones delivered from normal height at the same speed and hitting the same length. My point being, Shaheen can generate the right amount of pace but what he lacks is control. If he can learn to control his natural abilities he doesn't have to bend his back to generate more pace, already got enough.

 

[Hyperion66]

Saini has good pace but who else has that pace in India haris rauf was the quickest bowler in Asia in t20s on average speed last year so answer is no Pakistan is still ahead in speed. Plus Saini gets hit a lot in IPL I’ve seen him get clobbered he was good today though pace is not everything just like height isn’t which has been proved by Bumrah and shami the two best bowlers in the world.

What is Haris' average speed? I genuinely want to know. Haris would have gotten clobbered even more lol, IPL batting standard is light years ahead of BBL. If I am not wrong none of the top tier Aussie bats aren't even playing this BBL due to being on national duty. Bumrah and Shami both has more than enough pace to startle the batsman, Pace isn't everything, correct but it is the most important factor for a fast bowler, one can't be a world beater bowler bowling at 125kph.

We have already got pace, accuracy, seam, swing, intelligence and variations in our pace bowling department, only thing we lacked was a tearaway fast bowler, now we got one. There are a couple more at domestics who has similar pace.

 

[Mean&Green]

What is Haris' average speed? I genuinely want to know. Haris would have gotten clobbered even more lol, IPL batting standard is light years ahead of BBL. If I am not wrong none of the top tier Aussie bats aren't even playing this BBL due to being on national duty. Bumrah and Shami both has more than enough pace to startle the batsman, Pace isn't everything, correct but it is the most important factor for a fast bowler, one can't be a world beater bowler bowling at 125kph.

We have already got pace, accuracy, seam, swing, intelligence and variations in our pace bowling department, only thing we lacked was a tearaway fast bowler, now we got one. There are a couple more at domestics who has similar pace.

First of all don’t get ahead of yourself. “Tear away fast bowler” who has just bamboozled the mighty lankans. It’s very early to say how good he is don’t get your hopes up we’ll judge in the Australian series.

Coming to rauf he is faster than Bumrah on average as well . Proof is in the picture since you always want proofs fastest Asian bowler on average speed in t20s. Plus he is bowling a lot quicker on average this year in the bbl.

 

[Hyperion66]

First of all don’t get ahead of yourself. “Tear away fast bowler” who has just bamboozled the mighty lankans. It’s very early to say how good he is don’t get your hopes up we’ll judge in the Australian series.

Coming to rauf he is faster than Bumrah on average as well . Proof is in the picture since you always want proofs fastest Asian bowler on average speed in t20s. Plus he is bowling a lot quicker on average this year in the bbl.

View attachment 98240

That 'Mighty Lankans' mauled your so called number 1 team not so long ago, so show some respect. Performance of your team doesn't really match up to the arrogance in your post.

Haris' average speed is exact same as Saini today, but we can't come to a conclusion based on one t20. There is absolutely no proper way of telling right now who is faster. Of course Rauf is only a fraction faster than Bumrah on average and Bumrah isn't even considered express in PP lol.

 

[Mean&Green]

That 'Mighty Lankans' mauled your so called number 1 team not so long ago, so show some respect. Performance of your team doesn't really match up to the arrogance in your post.

Haris' average speed is exact same as Saini today, but we can't come to a conclusion based on one t20. There is absolutely no proper way of telling right now who is faster. Of course Rauf is only a fraction faster than Bumrah on average and Bumrah isn't even considered express in PP lol.

Regardless if they mauled us or not that doesn’t matter we are not discussing that we are discussing speed of Pakistani bowlers vs Indians. Clealy even if he is even a good 2 miles faster than Bumrah means he is still faster. Plus Saini wasn’t even in this list because he wasn’t as fast and he did bowl over a hundred balls in IPL last year. Another thing their is no arrogance my team is mediocre but since this thread is about fast bowling their will be arrogance because India is yet to produce a single fast bowler to match the level of wasim waqar or shoaib. By the way nothing personal I was just clarifying it for the people that think Indians are bowling faster than our bowlers now are they better than us he’ll yeah but are they faster no.

 

[jnaveen1980]

People have to remember just because your release speed is higher it doesn't mean it gets to batsman quicker. I think Saini is really quick of the pitch. One reason many could not dominate him in the end overs in the last eiditon of IPL. Fast bowlers can be attacked. So let us not go by how much the get hit around in a T20 match. Gayle absolutely obliterated Brett Lee in one of the world T20. Biggest plus for Saini is the bowlers he is going to play alongside him. With Bumrah, Shami, Ishant around he will only get better.

 

[NoBallZombie]

What is Haris' average speed? I genuinely want to know. Haris would have gotten clobbered even more lol, IPL batting standard is light years ahead of BBL. If I am not wrong none of the top tier Aussie bats aren't even playing this BBL due to being on national duty. Bumrah and Shami both has more than enough pace to startle the batsman, Pace isn't everything, correct but it is the most important factor for a fast bowler, one can't be a world beater bowler bowling at 125kph.

We have already got pace, accuracy, seam, swing, intelligence and variations in our pace bowling department, only thing we lacked was a tearaway fast bowler, now we got one. There are a couple more at domestics who has similar pace.

I love it when you "genuinely" want to know but we all know that is genuinely not the case

There are 2 massive assumptions in your statement that I would like some data on:

1. How did you rate IPL batting standard above BBL? I haven't seen any IPL matches for the last few years but the last I remember it was batting tracks and extremely short boundaries where anyone who wields a bat can score. Ofcourse australia and for that matter any t20 tournament is the same barring the ones held in UAE but at least the boundaries are normal plus BBL is top notch in terms of competitiveness.

2. Haris Rauf would be bashed in IPL: What Machine learning algorithm did you use to work this out. He may or may not. The one thing he is good at is the yorker and not a lot of bowlers bowl it but I still have to see someone hit a yorker for six.

 

[NoBallZombie]

People have to remember just because your release speed is higher it doesn't mean it gets to batsman quicker. I think Saini is really quick of the pitch. One reason many could not dominate him in the end overs in the last eiditon of IPL. Fast bowlers can be attacked. So let us not go by how much the get hit around in a T20 match. Gayle absolutely obliterated Brett Lee in one of the world T20. Biggest plus for Saini is the bowlers he is going to play alongside him. With Bumrah, Shami, Ishant around he will only get better.

In one of the recent series (I think it was Aus vs Kiwis), they were measuring the speed off the hand and all the way to the batsman. I think that may be exactly what you are alluding to. Some bowlers who seem to hit the bat hard may get the bowl to reach the batsmen quicker.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Nagrakoti was a huge loss. AN 150k bowler. Mavi also hit 150k in the IPL. Both of them were expected to carry the mantle. Mohammad Siraj also touched 149k. Not sure how well Ishan Porel have developed.

 

[jnaveen1980]

In one of the recent series (I think it was Aus vs Kiwis), they were measuring the speed off the hand and all the way to the batsman. I think that may be exactly what you are alluding to. Some bowlers who seem to hit the bat hard may get the bowl to reach the batsmen quicker.

Wrist position and release is important. Ishant in one of the Australian series was averaging like 142k. But batsmen had a lot of time to play their shots. Now he has changed a lot. Agarkar is another guy who would look innocuous but would hurry you.

 

[jnaveen1980]

At the end of the day whoever translates their pace into success will prevail. I genuinely appreciate Wahab Riaz's raw pace. But he just went nowhere. Same with Mohammad sami who could bowl effortlessly 140k plus. Tait, Tino Best many raw pace bowler lost their way. Bowlers who were smarter always succeeded. Munaf Patel when he started was clocking 145k. Then he reduced his speed to prolong his career. Same with VRV singh.

 

[tyron_woodley]

People have to remember just because your release speed is higher it doesn't mean it gets to batsman quicker. I think Saini is really quick of the pitch. One reason many could not dominate him in the end overs in the last eiditon of IPL. Fast bowlers can be attacked. So let us not go by how much the get hit around in a T20 match. Gayle absolutely obliterated Brett Lee in one of the world T20. Biggest plus for Saini is the bowlers he is going to play alongside him. With Bumrah, Shami, Ishant around he will only get better.

it depends from where you release the ball. bumrah has a late release which allows him to bowl at pace and rush the batsman.

hence why he is so deadly. saini is the same.

 

[tyron_woodley]

At the end of the day whoever translates their pace into success will prevail. I genuinely appreciate Wahab Riaz's raw pace. But he just went nowhere. Same with Mohammad sami who could bowl effortlessly 140k plus. Tait, Tino Best many raw pace bowler lost their way. Bowlers who were smarter always succeeded. Munaf Patel when he started was clocking 145k. Then he reduced his speed to prolong his career. Same with VRV singh.

yea agreed. wahab should have cut down on his useless pace and focused on swing plus seam. He isn't even that quick. He bowls like 140 on average. only a grand total of 2 km per hour faster than shami who is 10 times the bowler.

 

[RajBan]

Modern diet has helped Indian athletes break the beef barrier to get on par with Pakistani pacers in terms of pace power.

This is nothing to do with beef. That's a misconception.

 

[RajBan]

I love it when you "genuinely" want to know but we all know that is genuinely not the case

There are 2 massive assumptions in your statement that I would like some data on:

1. How did you rate IPL batting standard above BBL? I haven't seen any IPL matches for the last few years but the last I remember it was batting tracks and extremely short boundaries where anyone who wields a bat can score. Ofcourse australia and for that matter any t20 tournament is the same barring the ones held in UAE but at least the boundaries are normal plus BBL is top notch in terms of competitiveness.

2. Haris Rauf would be bashed in IPL: What Machine learning algorithm did you use to work this out. He may or may not. The one thing he is good at is the yorker and not a lot of bowlers bowl it but I still have to see someone hit a yorker for six.

The quality in BBL is nothing more than ordinary barring few players here and there, even though matches are competitive, grounds are big and conditions are top notch. In comparison IPL playing 11s are world class, at par with international teams. While grounds may be small, the conditions vary and it's not necessarily straight hitting tracks everywhere. Also overall bowling quality is less compared to IPL. 60% of the top international bowlers play in IPL, BBL won't be more than 10%.

 

[Hyperion66]

I love it when you "genuinely" want to know but we all know that is genuinely not the case

There are 2 massive assumptions in your statement that I would like some data on:

1. How did you rate IPL batting standard above BBL? I haven't seen any IPL matches for the last few years but the last I remember it was batting tracks and extremely short boundaries where anyone who wields a bat can score. Ofcourse australia and for that matter any t20 tournament is the same barring the ones held in UAE but at least the boundaries are normal plus BBL is top notch in terms of competitiveness.

2. Haris Rauf would be bashed in IPL: What Machine learning algorithm did you use to work this out. He may or may not. The one thing he is good at is the yorker and not a lot of bowlers bowl it but I still have to see someone hit a yorker for six.

Sad that you didn't find my curiosity genuine my friend , I am afraid I couldn't care less though.

1. A league that features the best batsmen all over the world vs the one with mostly Aussie domestics!! I am sorry but it's not even a comparison lol. Hell Aussie regulars aren't even playing this year for crying out loud. This is like comparing the quality of soccer played in La Liga with the Turkish league. You can choose to believe whatever gives you peace but I must tell you it is not normal to think BBL has better batting than IPL. BTWI am not a regular IPL audience but I do try to keep myself updated.

What competition? Associate matches are often more competitive than the regular ones, it means they are of similar strength, does not mean that they play higher quality cricket than the full members lol. Can't believe I am actually explaining such basics!!

2. No machine language brother, just common sense. Bowlers far above Haris' pay grade get regularly slaughtered in IPL. Now neither Haris will ever play IPL nor will I be ever able to test that hypothesis of mine which is based on my observation, common sense and reasoning.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Indians were naturally strong for being vegetarians. Now that many eat meat, you see many fit and strong guys. No surprise here.

Farm boys are always naturally strong. city boys are soft.

Indian bowlers could never win in an arm wrestling match with Pakistani bowlers in past. Now they take protein shake and have higher protein going in. The beef barrier barrier has been breached.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Indian bowlers could never win in an arm wrestling match with Pakistani bowlers in past. Now they take protein shake and have higher protein going in. The beef barrier barrier has been breached.

no way. pakistan are just superior physically in every way. Too strong for us poor malnourished Indians.
west indians and Pakistanis are the strongest on average.

followed by Aussies.

then you have the Indians, saffers and poms.

just cant compete with the top 3. Don't have the mental strength or the bone structure to get close to their level.

 

[Hyperion66]

Regardless if they mauled us or not that doesn’t matter we are not discussing that we are discussing speed of Pakistani bowlers vs Indians. Clealy even if he is even a good 2 miles faster than Bumrah means he is still faster. Plus Saini wasn’t even in this list because he wasn’t as fast and he did bowl over a hundred balls in IPL last year. Another thing their is no arrogance my team is mediocre but since this thread is about fast bowling their will be arrogance because India is yet to produce a single fast bowler to match the level of wasim waqar or shoaib. By the way nothing personal I was just clarifying it for the people that think Indians are bowling faster than our bowlers now are they better than us he’ll yeah but are they faster no.

Please don't put words in my mouth. Haris is fast, I never denied that. All I said that with all the hype Haris is only a fraction faster than Bumrah on average who btw isn't considered express. I figured that based on the chart that you provided lol.

So just cuz we haven't produced talents like WWI we aren't allowed to be excited about our new prospects? Is it okay if I said you shouldn't hype Jack about Babar as you are yet to produce players like Sachin, Sunny and Kohl? Wouldn't that be a messed up logic?

You can believe what you want but based on the data we have there is no way to tell who is faster, they are just so identical when it comes to pace. Now I wouldn't mind if you produce current BB speed chart to prove me wrong. May be Saini is faster or may be Haris was faster all along we simply don't have enough evidence to prove either right now.

 

[Muhammad Saad]

This is not even a question in the last 2 years we have produced a dozen fast bowlers capable of hitting 145k and beyond. Probably its the highest for any test playing nations.

 

[tyron_woodley]

Please don't put words in my mouth. Haris is fast, I never denied that. All I said that with all the hype Haris is only a fraction faster than Bumrah on average who btw isn't considered express. I figured that based on the chart that you provided lol.

So just cuz we haven't produced talents like WWI we aren't allowed to be excited about our new prospects? Is it okay if I said you shouldn't hype Jack about Babar as you are yet to produce players like Sachin, Sunny and Kohl? Wouldn't that be a messed up logic?

You can believe what you want but based on the data we have there is no way to tell who is faster, they are just so identical when it comes to pace. Now I wouldn't mind if you produce current BB speed chart to prove me wrong. May be Saini is faster or may be Haris was faster all along we simply don't have enough evidence to prove either right now.

oh bumrah can turn it up if he wants to. In australia he amped his speed up to 145 plus consistently.

But yea his average for that series was around 139-141. shami was around 140 as well. only starc was slightly quicker at 142.
hazelwood is 136
cummins 137 ish.

bumrah bowled the fastest ball of series by the way.

 

[Hyperion66]

oh bumrah can turn it up if he wants to. In australia he amped his speed up to 145 plus consistently.

But yea his average for that series was around 139-141. shami was around 140 as well. only starc was slightly quicker at 142.
hazelwood is 136
cummins 137 ish.

bumrah bowled the fastest ball of series by the way.

I know man, just cuz he varies his pace a lot people tend to think he isn't express.

 

[Sin Nombre]

This is a silly thread.

Both have about ten bowlers who can bowl at 145+ and maintain average at 140 in short spells.

Pace is pace but what matters is pace with control and intelligence like Bumrah and Shami.

Everyone else from both countries have everything to prove.

 

[Bhaijaan]

no way. pakistan are just superior physically in every way. Too strong for us poor malnourished Indians.
west indians and Pakistanis are the strongest on average.

followed by Aussies.

then you have the Indians, saffers and poms.

just cant compete with the top 3. Don't have the mental strength or the bone structure to get close to their level.

You are now exaggerating it because in pure strength Indians have always been ahead of Pakistanis as proven by their superior record in wrestling, boxing, weight lifting, kabaddi and many such physical sports.

In cricket it was different because of beef barrier. Pakistani kids were ready to bowl fast by the age of 16, while Indian bowlers developed the dame strength in their mid 20s.

 

[Hitman]

You are now exaggerating it because in pure strength Indians have always been ahead of Pakistanis as proven by their superior record in wrestling, boxing, weight lifting, kabaddi and many such physical sports.

In cricket it was different because of beef barrier. Pakistani kids were ready to bowl fast by the age of 16, while Indian bowlers developed the dame strength in their mid 20s.

That was sarcasm.

 

[Sin Nombre]

You are now exaggerating it because in pure strength Indians have always been ahead of Pakistanis as proven by their superior record in wrestling, boxing, weight lifting, kabaddi and many such physical sports.

In cricket it was different because of beef barrier. Pakistani kids were ready to bowl fast by the age of 16, while Indian bowlers developed the dame strength in their mid 20s.

Haryanvis are the strongest south Asians.

Only ones who are somewhat world class when it comes to sports.

Rest of the subcontinent is the worst when it comes to sports globally along with Indonesians.


Pakistan has 0 medals in the last 7 Olympics.
BD has never won a single medal in its history.
India wins very few medals and more than half are won by Haryanvis.

 

[tyron_woodley]

I know man, just cuz he varies his pace a lot people tend to think he isn't express.

yea I agree. Hoenstly it is so much harder to vary your pace than to bowl at express pace consistently. Takes so much skill to adjust your lengths and speed. 135-145 is a good range. Most top bowlers bowl around that range consistently with guile and skill.

There is no need kill yourself bowling 145 plus if you are going to be erratic.

Take wahab for example. I love his pace but he isn't skilful enough at all to vary his speed nor is he skilful enough to vary his lengths. What's the point of bending your back to bowl fast. Same applies to varun aaron.

Pakistanis need to forget about express pace and look at guys who can bowl at good pace (135-145) plus have the skill to outbox the batsmen. It is just not humanely possible to maintain a 145 plus speed consistently for test cricket and simultaneously be adept at variations. Body will break down eventually.

 

[tyron_woodley]

You are now exaggerating it because in pure strength Indians have always been ahead of Pakistanis as proven by their superior record in wrestling, boxing, weight lifting, kabaddi and many such physical sports.

In cricket it was different because of beef barrier. Pakistani kids were ready to bowl fast by the age of 16, while Indian bowlers developed the dame strength in their mid 20s.

bro I was trolling lol. There are plenty of strong Indians. Same applies to Pakistanis as well.

btw Indians are ahead of australia as well in weight lifting and wrestling. Out of all cricketing nations india have the best wrestlers.

Samoans are probably naturally the heaviest hence they carry power but they lack the endurance.

 

[Mean&Green]

Please don't put words in my mouth. Haris is fast, I never denied that. All I said that with all the hype Haris is only a fraction faster than Bumrah on average who btw isn't considered express. I figured that based on the chart that you provided lol.

So just cuz we haven't produced talents like WWI we aren't allowed to be excited about our new prospects? Is it okay if I said you shouldn't hype Jack about Babar as you are yet to produce players like Sachin, Sunny and Kohl? Wouldn't that be a messed up logic?

You can believe what you want but based on the data we have there is no way to tell who is faster, they are just so identical when it comes to pace. Now I wouldn't mind if you produce current BB speed chart to prove me wrong. May be Saini is faster or may be Haris was faster all along we simply don't have enough evidence to prove either right now.

Bruv I’m not telling you too not get excited about them I’m literally referring to the thread title and saying the answer is no Pakistanis are still faster. Saini has great heat so does haris hopefully we’ll see both of them bowl in the World Cup this year and we’ll find out who’s got more nitrous. Plus you’ve never seen that haris guy bowl you probably think he’s some trundler so your putting him down go watch his bbl spells players were beaten by pure pace and they all looked shock when they get out cause he’s way too quick for them. On top of that haris has come from the streets zero domestic experience even than he’s doing that great he was playing in a under par subdivision league in Australia they picked him up from there imagine if he was brought up properly through the ranks earlier how much better he would be.