England [246 & 271] beat India [273 & 184] by 60 runs to take an unassailable 3-1 series lead

[Srtfan]

Need to give chance shaw vihari ,nair. We already lost series

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Ashwin should hav never played this game.

Our management is the worst.

 

[Boi]

Oxenford robs Moeen of a 10fer

 

[Canford Cliffs]

Ashwin was not out....some very poor umpiring this series. First innings Rahane was given out on a no ball as well.

Bruce Oxenford reminds me of Steve Bucknor

 

[shaaik]

Ashwin was not out....some very poor umpiring this series. First innings Rahane was given out on a no ball as well.

Bruce Oxenford reminds me of Steve Bucknor

thats why Kohli should not hv wasted that review

 

[Ahmed216]

Looking forward to presentation ceremony. I am sure kohli will remind us how all the test matches in SA and nd Eng were closely fought and India wasnt outplayed.
Even a slightly better english top order would have ensured serious humiliation for India though

 

[Canford Cliffs]

Congrats to all my Pakistani friends

 

[Bilal7]

Welcome Bilalbhai, we missed you when India was doing well.

Huh? When was that? Did I make a mistake and come out of hiding while India are still in the series?

 

[Sachin136]

2 wrong decisions out of the last 3. Some truly ridiculous umpiring from Oxenford.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Joke Umpiring throughout the test.

 

[Saurav]

Ashwin should hav never played this game.

Our management is the worst.

I'm sure he himself wanted to play.Too senior a player to be left out then

 

[Canford Cliffs]

Joke Umpiring throughout the test.

Ashwin out nehi tha yaar

 

[Big Mac]

Joke Umpiring throughout the test.

If he gave that not out then Moeen would have got 10-for and that would have been even more beizzati. Umpire did you a favour with that last wicket

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Happy with the way we fought in 3 out of 4 tests. Much better than our previous tours. I don't expect much to change as far as selections are concerned( corruption is appalling) but key areas where we lost it were 1) lack of practice matches 2) Poor strategies by captain and coach (2 spinners in 2nd match)
3) Not under his control but losing 4 out of 4 tosses hurt our chances a lot.

 

[Savage]

Joke Umpiring throughout the test.

Rahane lbw decision was a shocker.Didn't expect that from International umpire.

Thank god Drs saved him.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I'm sure he himself wanted to play.Too senior a player to be left out then

True.

Greed and stupidity by all involved.

I hav been saying from day 1 we should go with 2 spinners. If one flops, other is there to click.

People were too enamoured by the balance Pandya gives the team on paper.

Now we hav lost 2 test series.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

If he gave that not out then Moeen would have got 10-for and that would have been even more beizzati. Umpire did you a favour with that last wicket

Moeen deserved 10fer.

As if beizatti hasnt maxed out lol.

 

[Big Mac]

Moeen deserved 10fer.

As if beizatti hasnt maxed out lol.

Could have been much worse, imagine if Jimmy had got Kohli out 8 times for single figures.

 

[Saurav]

True.

Greed and stupidity by all involved.

I hav been saying from day 1 we should go with 2 spinners. If one flops, other is there to click.

People were too enamoured by the balance Pandya gives the team on paper.

Now we hav lost 2 test series.

Don't agree with that on normal away tracks.Here maybe.But the lone spinner too has to support pacers better.We need to see what Jaddu can do.

Pandya is not a no.6 .Should be replaced by a specialist bat until we find a batsman who can bowl

What will be your composition in Aus?

 

[Amjid Javed]

Congrats india on 4-0 series lead and should have favourable conditions at the oval to make it 5-0 aswell.

 

[Big Mac]

"I did enjoy it, the 15 balls I faced"

) What a legend, pure Brummie self-deprecation.
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION]

 

[bujhee kom]

Congrats india on 4-0 series lead and should have favourable conditions at the oval to make it 5-0 aswell.

 

[Justcrazy]

That was surely not out, Ashwin unlucky there. His bowling might have been ineffective but he's a better bat than Pandya imo

Not better but sensible.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Don't agree with that on normal away tracks.Here maybe.But the lone spinner too has to support pacers better.We need to see what Jaddu can do.

Pandya is not a no.6 .Should be replaced by a specialist bat until we find a batsman who can bowl

What will be your composition in Aus?

Centurion
Edgbaston
Southampton

3 tests which could hav gone our way. Not guaranteed of course.

Lord's 2 spinners was not a bad choice. Just that we never scored enough for 3rd and 4th innings to come to play.

Aus series... I hav to think.

Time is there.

Search will go on for batsman who can bowl tight.

Who knows... Pandya might do well there.

 

[the_outsider]

India have still dominated according to the 'Dr'.

India has.

I said the same thing when Australia lost 1-2 in India last year - that Australia was the better side.

Here, in the conditions that have England had, they should have done much better.

But 2 out of their 3 victories went down to the last 2 played sessions.

A series loss is a series loss, I'm not going to make any excuses for that. But this series has been a lot closer than the current 3-1 scoreline suggests. Just like the 1-2 scoreline doesn't do justice to the quality of cricket Australia played in 2017.

 

[sjahmed23]

Indian cleaned up by Moeen bhai again.

 

[Snowflake]

Normal service resumed.

 

[the_outsider]

Centurion
Edgbaston
Southampton

3 tests which could hav gone our way. Not guaranteed of course.

Lord's 2 spinners was not a bad choice. Just that we never scored enough for 3rd and 4th innings to come to play.

Aus series... I hav to think.

Time is there.

Search will go on for batsman who can bowl tight.

Who knows... Pandya might do well there.

Do you think Pandya will do well in Australia? I really doubt that.

For Australia India will be forced to play with 6 batsmen I think because Pandya won't be of much use on those surfaces.

For Australia India will have to play

Ashwin/Jadeja
Kuldeep
Ishant
Shami
Bumrah

Otherwise taking 20 wickets on those Aussie roads is going to be very difficult.

 

[bujhee kom]

India has.

I said the same thing when Australia lost 1-2 in India last year - that Australia was the better side.

Here, in the conditions that have England had, they should have done much better.

But 2 out of their 3 victories went down to the last 2 played sessions.

A series loss is a series loss, I'm not going to make any excuses for that. But this series has been a lot closer than the current 3-1 scoreline suggests. Just like the 1-2 scoreline doesn't do justice to the quality of cricket Australia played in 2017.

Moral victory eh?

 

[sjahmed23]

Man if India play this badly against part time spinners one has to wonder how they would play against the best spinners in the world, if theyever decide they are upto the challenge
.

So much for the so called best ‘touring side’

 

[the_outsider]

Moral victory eh?

Unfortunately, yes. That's all we have for now.

 

[Saurav]

Do you think Pandya will do well in Australia? I really doubt that.

For Australia India will be forced to play with 6 batsmen I think because Pandya won't be of much use on those surfaces.

For Australia India will have to play

Ashwin/Jadeja
Kuldeep
Ishant
Shami
Bumrah

Otherwise taking 20 wickets on those Aussie roads is going to be very difficult.

Offies generally struggle in Aus. I'd be tempted to play Jaddu unless Kuldeep shows that he can be tighter.Maybe give him the first game

Umesh will feature there too imo

 

[the_outsider]

Offies generally struggle in Aus. I'd be tempted to play Jaddu unless Kuldeep shows that he can be tighter.Maybe give him the first game

Umesh will feature there too imo

I hope Umesh gets a couple of games too. He hasn't received much game time in test although he's bowling as well as I have seen him in his career.

But I think Kuldeep has to really step up for that series.

 

[Justcrazy]

India will play pandaya in Australia.

Pandaya
Bumrah
ishant
Bhuvi
Kuldeep

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Do you think Pandya will do well in Australia? I really doubt that.

For Australia India will be forced to play with 6 batsmen I think because Pandya won't be of much use on those surfaces.

For Australia India will have to play

Ashwin/Jadeja
Kuldeep
Ishant
Shami
Bumrah

Otherwise taking 20 wickets on those Aussie roads is going to be very difficult.

Pandya uses bounce well.

Aus pitches dont seam. Ball doesnt swing.

So may score runs there.

For now Pandya has to go back to domestics.

 

[Slog]

Ashwin was not out....some very poor umpiring this series. First innings Rahane was given out on a no ball as well.

Bruce Oxenford reminds me of Steve Bucknor

Same with Kohli this innings you forget to add

 

[Bilal7]

Do you think Pandya will do well in Australia? I really doubt that.

For Australia India will be forced to play with 6 batsmen I think because Pandya won't be of much use on those surfaces.

For Australia India will have to play

Ashwin/Jadeja
Kuldeep
Ishant
Shami
Bumrah

Otherwise taking 20 wickets on those Aussie roads is going to be very difficult.

Come on, dude. Do you hate Kuldeep or what? India should have Jadeja as their main spinner and then four proper fast bowlers (Shami, Ishant, Umesh and Bumrah). None of the Pandya as the fourth spinner nonsense. India finally have a good bowling attack, they should try to utilize it and who knows? They might win a test or two given that Australia don't have their two best batsmen yet.

1) Dhawan
2) Rahul
3) Pujara
4) Kohli (c)
5) Rahane
6) Pant (wk)
7) Jadeja
8) Shami
9) Ishant
10) Umesh
11) Bumrah

This is a good team for the series down under.

 

[the_outsider]

Come on, dude. Do you hate Kuldeep or what? India should have Jadeja as their main spinner and then four proper fast bowlers (Shami, Ishant, Umesh and Bumrah). None of the Pandya as the fourth spinner nonsense. India finally have a good bowling attack, they should try to utilize it and who knows? They might win a test or two given that Australia don't have their two best batsmen yet.

1) Dhawan
2) Rahul
3) Pujara
4) Kohli (c)
5) Rahane
6) Pant (wk)
7) Jadeja
8) Shami
9) Ishant
10) Umesh
11) Bumrah

This is a good team for the series down under.

Good point.

Do you think 4 pacers and 1 spinner is a better option in Australia?

Or 3 pacers and 2 spinners?

I know Aussie pitches are a graveyard for spinners but thought Kuldeep might be useful given the bounce on those pitches and some rough around the bat in the 2nd innings.

 

[Mainul]

I said it before, India missed a golden opportunity in their first innings by not posting big lead.England was supposed to come back hard as it's always difficult to chase on this wicket.

 

[Syed1]

The last test match win was a fluke of the highest order...

 

[the_outsider]

The last test match win was a fluke of the highest order...

There are no flukes in test cricket.

A half-intelligent cricket fan would can tell you that.

 

[Bilal7]

Good point.

Do you think 4 pacers and 1 spinner is a better option in Australia?

Or 3 pacers and 2 spinners?

I know Aussie pitches are a graveyard for spinners but thought Kuldeep might be useful given the bounce on those pitches and some rough around the bat in the 2nd innings.

Four pacers and one spinner. We should have done the same for our tour but ended up going with just four bowlers which really hurt. Without sounding disrespectful, if Shah could do nothing in Australia, Kuldeep won't either. A much safer option is to go with Jadeja who turns the ball away from the right-handers but is also a lot more accurate and can bowl defensively when needed. Plus, he can bat just as well as Pandya can.

 

[Bilal7]

There are no flukes in test cricket.

A half-intelligent cricket fan would can tell you that.

He knows that too. He's throwing shade at some who claim that Pakistan winning five matches in a row during the 2017 CT was a fluke.

 

[Hasan123]

Good test . Good win for England.

 

[Slim]

India managed to fluke one test but fluke only works once. Too bad for Team Indiyaaaaa, they are a one man army and hopeless without Kohli.

 

[Canford Cliffs]

India managed to fluke one test but fluke only works once. Too bad for Team Indiyaaaaa, they are a one man army and hopeless without Kohli.

Kohli is not there in Asia cup...so you saying it will be a walk in the park for Pak then, right?

 

[Usman Chadda]

Kohli is not there in Asia cup...so you saying it will be a walk in the park for Pak then, right?

Bangladesh aur Sri Lanka chanay bechnay aa rahe hain?

 

[Savak]

I lol at the talk of India's biggest positive being their bowling attack and performances. These were bowling friendly conditions just like the ones Pakistan got in 2010 with Asif and Amir. In fact the Indian bowling attack is to be blamed for allowing England to recover from 86/6 to 270 all out in the first innings.

In fact Pakistan's 2-2 result in 2016 is severely under rated because in predominantly much flatter wickets our bowling attack spearheaded the team to two victories and on a bowling friendly wicket in 2018 our team beat England in their own conditions with an inexperienced team and not as highly ranked as Indian.

The Indian team came into this series with a number one ranking and with a so called aggressive captain in Kohli

 

[Slim]

Kohli is not there in Asia cup...so you saying it will be a walk in the park for Pak then, right?

Not really. First of all its ODI cricket not test and secondly its Asia not England. Its achievable but slightly difficult. All what needs to be done is to take down India's top 3 and you guys are dusted.

 

[Usman Chadda]

Not really. First of all its ODI cricket not test and secondly its Asia not England. Its achievable but slightly difficult. All what needs to be done is to take down India's top 3 and you guys are dusted.

Top 2*

 

[Canford Cliffs]

Not really. First of all its ODI cricket not test and secondly its Asia not England. Its achievable but slightly difficult. All what needs to be done is to take down India's top 3 and you guys are dusted.

Too much arrogance not good my friend. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] was right, Pak fans on a different level of delusion since CT and a reality check looming large.

Btw below are the Indo-Pak matches in this decade and Kohli was not always there:

1) Asia Cup 2010 - India
2) World Cup 2011 - India
3) Asia Cup 2012 - India
4) WT20 2012 - India
5) U19 WC 2012 - India
6) Aane Do series - Pakistan
7) Champions Trophy 2013 - India
8) U23 Emerging cup (league game) - India
9) U23 Emerging cup (finals) - India
10) U19 WC 2014 - India
11) Asia cup 2014 - Pakistan
12) WT20 2014 - India
13) World cup 2015 - India
14) Asia cup 2016 - India
15) WT20 2016 - India
16) Champions Trophy league game - India
17) Champions Trophy finals - Pakistan
18) U19 WC 2018 - India

See you on 19th. Hope you wont hide that day like you did after 3rd test

 

[Slim]

Too much arrogance not good my friend. [MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] was right, Pak fans on a different level of delusion since CT and a reality check looming large.

Btw below are the Indo-Pak matches in this decade and Kohli was not always there:

1) Asia Cup 2010 - India
2) World Cup 2011 - India
3) Asia Cup 2012 - India
4) WT20 2012 - India
5) U19 WC 2012 - India
6) Aane Do series - Pakistan
7) Champions Trophy 2013 - India
8) U23 Emerging cup (league game) - India
9) U23 Emerging cup (finals) - India
10) U19 WC 2014 - India
11) Asia cup 2014 - Pakistan
12) WT20 2014 - India
13) World cup 2015 - India
14) Asia cup 2016 - India
15) WT20 2016 - India
16) Champions Trophy league game - India
17) Champions Trophy finals - Pakistan
18) U19 WC 2018 - India

See you on 19th. Hope you wont hide that day like you did after 3rd test

Dont know whose more desperate, someone who is putting out facts about a weak Indian batting line up or someone who is quoting U19 cricket stats in an argument about how his Men's team is going to perform in the upcoming tournament.

Pakistani fans tend to stay grounded, its Indian fans who are always on cloud9 and in the need of a hammering to get back to the ground. Happened in CT, and now happened in England as well.

 

[PakLFC]

If Indian fans want to talk about bygone matches then take all matches in to account not the ones since 2010. We know how Pak has historically owned India in both Tests and One Days. I know it greatly hurts India fans to receive a whacking in England after the RSA hence they want to pick and choose past wins over Pakistan.

 

[Pete Rose]

Happy with the way we fought in 3 out of 4 tests. Much better than our previous tours. I don't expect much to change as far as selections are concerned( corruption is appalling) but key areas where we lost it were 1) lack of practice matches 2) Poor strategies by captain and coach (2 spinners in 2nd match)
3) Not under his control but losing 4 out of 4 tosses hurt our chances a lot.

Honestly, these factors you mention (on selection and and strategy) are a bit minutae.
For me the key issue that’s mattered is that the batting hasn’t been consistently at overall level. Not to troll but our subcontinental teams (India and Pakistan especially) don’t travel well. We are able to compete because every third game we are good in all facets of the game or we have a standout individual performance. So, there’s no point in thinking of perfection. If India had batted like 2014 and bowled like they are doing on this tour, they would have pulverized England.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Honestly, these factors you mention (on selection and and strategy) are a bit minutae.
For me the key issue that’s mattered is that the batting hasn’t been consistently at overall level. Not to troll but our subcontinental teams (India and Pakistan especially) don’t travel well. We are able to compete because every third game we are good in all facets of the game or we have a standout individual performance. So, there’s no point in thinking of perfection. If India had batted like 2014 and bowled like they are doing on this tour, they would have pulverized England.

True. Im not saying that we don't have issues . But consider the facts. This Indian bowling attack had created some record with regard to visiting bowling attacks recently and as good as our bowling is it is not THAT good. I think the conditions were difficult for batting otherwise it doesn't explain how our bowling has been so effective . Also our top 5 might have even outbatted England's top 5. The real difference has been Jos buttler and their their bits and pieces all-rounders like stokes/Ali/Woakes/Curran who have crucially knocked the wind out of our sails with both ball in hand and a mixture of obdurate and counterattacking batting. Pant is no Buttler yet and Pandya/Ashwin have failed with the bat . The same 'allrounders' minus Curran usually are very ineffective when touring India/Australia but in English conditions they give great depth to their side.

 

[Ab Fan]

The difference was made basically by England's 6,7 & 8 compared to what India's 6, 7 & 8 showed up.

Curran, Buttler, Woakes and Moeen in comparison to Pandya, Pant, Karthik, Ashwin. This is where I felt India lost this test and perhaps the whole series.

 

[SL_Fan]

Eng pretty lucky to scrape through with a series win. They have to sort out their batting big time. Kohli and co should feel disappointed but still plenty of positives to take out of this series and the SA tour I think. Has been an enjoyable series thus far hopefully we see another cracker of a game to top it off.

 

[the_outsider]

True. Im not saying that we don't have issues . But consider the facts. This Indian bowling attack had created some record with regard to visiting bowling attacks recently and as good as our bowling is it is not THAT good. I think the conditions were difficult for batting otherwise it doesn't explain how our bowling has been so effective . Also our top 5 might have even outbatted England's top 5. The real difference has been Jos buttler and their their bits and pieces all-rounders like stokes/Ali/Woakes/Curran who have crucially knocked the wind out of our sails with both ball in hand and a mixture of obdurate and counterattacking batting. Pant is no Buttler yet and Pandya/Ashwin have failed with the bat . The same 'allrounders' minus Curran usually are very ineffective when touring India/Australia but in English conditions they give great depth to their side.

India's top 5 outbatted England's top 5 by a large margin.

But it was the exact opposite for batsmen 6-11. England's last 6 batsmen scored 200 runs more than India's last 6.

That's where India lost the game.

In Edgbaston they let Curran, Rashid, etc score when England was 80 for 7.

In Southhampton it was the exact same thing all over again with England at 80/6 in the first innings.

India lost because England's lower-order massively outscored India's lower order.

We also have to give credit to England's batting depth. They are playing Rashid at no 9 while we have Shami/Ishant.

I won't blame Pant. He has only played 2 tests. But Ashwin has seriously underperformed with the bat. And Hardik has failed as well. Only 2 decent innings out of 8.

 

[the_outsider]

I think it's time for India to shelve the 5-bowler theory in tests for now.

Yes, they are regularly picking 20 wickets but they are doing so at the expense of really thinning out our batting.

We have a new wk in Pant as it is. We can't afford 2 more passengers in the lower order.

India should go with 6 batsmen + wk + 1 spinner + 3 pacers.

 

[Savak]

India's top 5 outbatted England's top 5 by a large margin.

But it was the exact opposite for batsmen 6-11. England's last 6 batsmen scored 200 runs more than India's last 6.

That's where India lost the game.

In Edgbaston they let Curran, Rashid, etc score when England was 80 for 7.

In Southhampton it was the exact same thing all over again with England at 80/6 in the first innings.

India lost because England's lower-order massively outscored India's lower order.

We also have to give credit to England's batting depth. They are playing Rashid at no 9 while we have Shami/Ishant.

I won't blame Pant. He has only played 2 tests. But Ashwin has seriously underperformed with the bat. And Hardik has failed as well. Only 2 decent innings out of 8.

The bowling attack has to be blamed if you run out of steam and cannot get the last 4-5 wickets. Secondly i am not convinced by India's batting either. Apart from Kohli, no one else has really stood up. Pujara is still very inconsistent and does not really put the opposition under pressure

 

[RamLakhan]

India should play Pandya overseas only if there is cloud cover and if the pitch is assisting too much for pacers! Otherwise his batting is not good enough to consider him as 6th batsman! Even on flat/semi-flat pitches (such as the last match) we will lose the match because of imbalance in the team (You can see so many times teams have bailed out from trouble because of No.6 batsman. Famous Laxman-Kolkata test match! We should not foolishly think that 5 batsmen fail, so 6th also will fail!) The strong Australian and West Indies team always played with 6 specialist batsman + 4 specialist bowlers, they did not bother much about alrounders or bits-piece players rather! This will cost us series losses as it happened!

In case of India, I agree that their specialist bowlers are not that good, so they may need that 5th bowler to take 10 wickets, but still at least play the 5th bowler based on conditions.

Pandya can still be in the squad, but should not be a default selection for all the matches! Also we need to use him judicially because he bowls at good pace (at least he is needed for all our LOIs!) If Pandya has to be looked as a serious true alrounder then let him grow in home matches (Play him as 2nd or 3rd seamer) Let him improve his technique for test matches especially his batting! But in overseas test matches, we can't make these stupid decisions and excuses of so-called "balance" in the team!

I will have the following team for home & away test matches:

Home:

Rahul (should be persisted at least until we find alternative especially after Vijay's exit)
Dhawan
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane
Pandya
Pant
Ashwin
Jadeja
Kuldeep
Bumrah

Away:

Rahul
Dhawan (these two until we find replacements)
Pujara
Kohli
Rahane
6th batsman (preferably who can bowl some spin, but primarily batsmen, and definitely not pace bowling alrounder as its too difficult to find. This man can also considered for home matches, if he is a very effective player and if the pitch is a rank turner! This will help us avoid embarrassments like defeat against Australia at home!)
Pant
Ashwin/Jadeja/Kuldeep (whoever he is in good form/fit/effective! Not based on seniority/reputation! I think Kuldeep can become more valuable as he gains experience in future!)
Bhuvaneshwar/Shami (based on conditions. Note that somebody like Bhuvaneshwar can add more value to the team because of his batting which was so vital in the ongoing series!)
Ishant
Bumrah

The problem with Indian management is they have no vision beyond a limit! They think we need balance, and blindly select Pandya! They think Ashwin is experienced so he should play in all matches! Kuldeep maybe ineffective on pitches such as last match, but he can create chances on some flat pitches or/and can work in combination with other finger spinner like Moeen Ali!

 

[the_outsider]

The bowling attack has to be blamed if you run out of steam and cannot get the last 4-5 wickets. Secondly i am not convinced by India's batting either. Apart from Kohli, no one else has really stood up. Pujara is still very inconsistent and does not really put the opposition under pressure

You have a good point in saying that Pujara and Rahane could be more consistent. But they haven't been as bad as people think.

Both Pujara and Rahane have outscored all but 2 English batsmen - Butler and Curran.

And both Butler and Curran have mostly batted at number 7 or below.

Kohli, Pujara and Rahane have outscored every top 6 batsmen in the English lineup.

Dhawan has outscored both Cook and Jennings despite playing 1 less match than them.

India's problem has been a complete lack of a lower-order. So far England have had 2 centuries and 3 half-century from their lower order. India has had only 1 half century.




I think it's unfair to say the bolwers didn't bowl well enough to the English lower order. We should give credit to the batsmen. They played really well, especially Curran and Butler.