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England [469/9 & 129/3] beat West Indies [287 & 198] by 113 runs in the 2nd Test at Manchester

ENG 469/9 decl
WI 32/1 (14.0) CRR: 2.29
Day 3: Stumps - West Indies trail by 437 runs

Play abandoned for the day due to rain.
 
i think what has happenned here in this match is that windies are playing for the draw and the bajan thinktank saw the forecast for today and they just wanted to put off batting for as long as possible. like ultimately you lose test matches when you batting. no other explanation for bowling first at old trafford
props if they pull this off and secure the draw, will be some brainer movements tbh, but its going to look terrible if they lose
 
If all of 196 overs are possible, I think WIN still will lose this Test, even if they avoid follow on.

With one day washed out, I believe the follow on margin is 175 now. But even if it’s still 200, yet WIN are not safe. If ENG gets them all out under 300 with a lead around 170 and 100 overs left; they can blast for 15 overs and set like 275 in 85 overs; WIN won’t survive the duration. But, my hunch is if play starts on time tomorrow, WIN will go to lunch 5 down - still 170 overs left.

Poor call at toss, but I do believe they had an eye on the weather forecast before that call.
 
After a washout on day three at Emirates Old Trafford, England have two days to pick up 19 West Indies wickets and square the series at 1-1. Nasser Hussain looks at the bowling plans they should deploy...

When you look at the scoreboard and the fact not many wickets fell until England were trying to set up a declaration, you might think it's going to be hard work - but it has done plenty in this game so far.

There has been swing movement and England have very good swing bowlers.

England played and missed 87 times in their innings and 38 times they edged it. One in every seven or eight deliveries they missed or edged.

Ben Stokes himself said it was quite hard work, so there is plenty there for the seamers with this rain having been around.

The West Indies’ magical number is 270. That will avoid the follow-on, England will have to bat again and that will take time out of the game. West Indies may then only need to bat two sessions to save the Test.

Another bonus for England is Curran's height.

Curran playing in Barbados last year was a mistake but the fact he is short helps England at Old Trafford because he bowls the full length that brings lbw and the stumps into play.

Jason Holder, who is 6ft 7in, was bowling a full length and only just trimming the bails, so a load of DRS decisions weren't overturned.

Curran, at 5ft 9in, has a different trajectory and brings the stumps into play.

The other thing is about spin - and this works against England slightly.

Roston Chase, at 6ft 4in, was getting a lot of bounce and over-spin, whereas Dom Bess, at 5ft 11in, didn't get as much and batsmen can pick up length slightly better as it is not bouncing on them too much.

Bess has got his line right but I think he needs to get his length better - his length needs to be immaculate. He should be hitting the spot between the full and good length much more often.

Of the 187 deliveries he has bowled only eight have landed in that in-between length - the length where batsmen aren't sure whether to get forward or go back.

Bess has really improved as a spinner from when we first saw him. He has worked with Rangana Herath from Sri Lanka and really improved his line, seam position and drift and he is getting dip.

What he now has to nail is ball after ball in between good and full so West Indies' batsmen have to use their feet and change their plan.

https://www.skysports.com/cricket/n...ing-plans-for-second-test-against-west-indies
 
Windies have some good players for saving test matches. In case, they lose a few early wickets tomorrow which they most likely will, I would rather suggest going for complete block game. Just dig in out six sessions with 19 wickets in hand.

They should come out positively tomorrow but if they are four or five done after morning session, they can simply start blocking everything from the next session onward. One wicketless session will create a lot of pressure on England bowlers irrespective of the runs because the game is now all about taking 19 wickets in 6 sessions.
 
If England can't win this Test, it should do a lot of damage to their ICC ranking.

Also, this series is part of World Test Championship.

Regardless of what happens, West Indies have given England a big blow both in ICC ranking and WTC.
 
Ben Stokes admitted England had their work cut out to draw level with the West Indies as rain threatened to wash out the whole of the third day's play in the second Test at Old Trafford on Saturday.

Persistent rain, which ensured the pitch and square were fully covered, meant there was no play before lunch, with England looking to level a three-match campaign at 1-1.

Star all-rounder Stokes top-scored with 176 on Friday and shared a partnership of 260 for the fourth wicket with opener Dom Sibley, who made a painstaking 120, as England piled up 469-9 declared after being sent into bat.

"It's not ideal, turning up today with the weather around," Stokes told Sky Sports on Saturday. "It's looking like we'll have to take 19 wickets in two days.

"But the wicket has offered something throughout the whole Test so far, so we just need to make sure we can expose that. And we know that once we get on a roll, anything is possible with the bowling attack we have."

Before Friday's close, Sam Curran had John Campbell lbw, with West Indies set to resume on 32-1.

England are looking to bounce back after a four-wicket loss in the first Test at Southampton last week in a campaign that marks international cricket's return from the coronavirus lockdown.

Stokes is a member of a revamped bowling unit, with England resting seamers James Anderson and Mark Wood.

They dramatically found themselves without Jofra Archer for this match when the express quick was omitted for a breach of the bio-secure regulations governing the series.

But the England and Wales Cricket Board announced Saturday that, following a disciplinary hearing, Archer would be available for the third Test starting on Friday.

Stokes found himself captaining England at Southampton after regular skipper Joe Root missed the first Test to attend the birth of his second child.

"It's never nice losing a Test match," said Stokes, with the West Indies bidding for their first series win in England for 32 years.

"But I enjoyed the whole process of being captain for the five days."

Defeat continued a worrying trend for England, who have now lost the opening Test in eight of their last 10 series.

But, most recently, they came from 1-0 down in South Africa earlier this year to win a four-match series 3-1.

"I don't know really (why England are slow starters)," said Stokes.

"But we are a very good team at bouncing back from defeats in the first game of a series. We've proven that."

https://www.news24.com/sport/cricket/stokes-ready-for-long-haul-as-rain-frustrates-england-20200718
 
not like england have any penetrative bowlers. it would be a bajan masterstroke if they pull off the draw here, and then bring in chemar holder for the 3rd test and skittle england. probs wont happen but i feel this is something along the lines of what windies are going for. as i say, no other explanation for putting a side in at old trafford
 
England need to force follow-on as rain threatens, says Curran

MANCHESTER, England (Reuters) - England need to bowl West Indies out cheaply and try to force a follow-on to have any chance of winning the second test, said seamer Sam Curran ahead of the third day on Saturday which was delated by rain.

“If we do get washed out today it is quite obvious what we need to do to win the game,” Curran told Sky television on Saturday as the start of play was delayed.

“We need to bowl them out cheaply in the first innings and try and get them following on. There is no reasons why we cannot do that.

“Obviously, it’s going to be a big work load for the bowlers but we are nice and fresh and hopefully we can do something for the team,” he added.

Curran was brought into the England attack after the first test in Southampton, which West Indies won by four wickets.

The hosts are without Jofra Archer, left out because he breached bio-secure protocols, as well as James Anderson and Mark Wood, who were rested.

England face a tough schedule with six tests in a seven-week period as Pakistan visit after the West Indies.

“That’s why coming into the summer it was clear there was going to be a rotation policy and that’s why we have a totally different attack for this game,” Curran said.

The first day was also affected by rain and Saturday’s weather forecast could see the entire third day lost.

England declared on 469-9 late on Friday and Curran took a wicket as the West Indies reached 32-1 in reply, 437 runs behind.
https://in.reuters.com/article/cric...n-as-rain-threatens-says-curran-idINKCN24J0FR
 
Not sure what’s going to happen out on the pitch. We will get two full, long days though because the weather is set to be mild and sunny. There are lots of overs, so I’m quite excited to see what happens.
 
So full day's play expected today.

Not sure if England have the firepower to blow away Windies for a follow on situation.
 
MenInG said:
So full day's play expected today.

Not sure if England have the firepower to blow away Windies for a follow on situation.
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WI will have to mess up in their first dig for any possibility of an ENG win.
 
Pitch taking a lot of spin.

Bess the key bowler for England.
 
Alzarri has done a bit of early damage by his quick runs.

They need to add 180 runs more and 8 wickets still in hand to save follow-on.
 
England attack looks so one dimensional and a very inexperienced spinner, what I can't understand is why stokes not bowled, hes the quickest out of the seamers in the current line up
 
Manunited18 said:
England attack looks so one dimensional and a very inexperienced spinner, what I can't understand is why stokes not bowled, hes the quickest out of the seamers in the current line up
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After all that batting, they probably didn't want him to bowl too much.
 
After two high 80s-90+ Mph bowlers Eng have suddenly turned to 3 bowlers who rarely go above 85 MPH.

Two different kind of extremes in my opinion. Yes conditions play a role but its always better to have bit of variety in your attack in case the conditions change throughout the test or weather varies.
 
Titan24 said:
After two high 80s-90+ Mph bowlers Eng have suddenly turned to 3 bowlers who rarely go above 85 MPH.

Two different kind of extremes in my opinion. Yes conditions play a role but its always better to have bit of variety in your attack in case the conditions change throughout the test or weather varies.
Click to expand...

I think the plan was to persist with Broad, Archer and Woakes/Curran but Archer did his drama.

I see the return of Anderson and Archer both in next test.
 
Titan24 said:
After two high 80s-90+ Mph bowlers Eng have suddenly turned to 3 bowlers who rarely go above 85 MPH.

Two different kind of extremes in my opinion. Yes conditions play a role but its always better to have bit of variety in your attack in case the conditions change throughout the test or weather varies.
Click to expand...

Conditions and the Dukes ball I think. Even genuine quicks from visiting teams seem to cut down their pace when they bowl here
 
England are doing their best on a good batting track and with little assistance out there for the bowlers. The problem here is the match situation and the lost time.

If this was Day 3 (which pitch-wise it effectively is), then 172-3 replying to 469 would just be a normal scenario, and you would actually say that England are in the more favourable position, with a good chance of winning the Test on the final day.

Because however England need to bowl West Indies out twice before tomorrow night — either in a follow-on situation, or with a very short 3rd innings of aggressive strokemaking — this is not looking great for England at the moment.

The smart money right now is on the Draw.
 
Frustrating.

Bess is not up to it. Wood should be playing to inject pace. Stokes is no longer a frontline bowler.
 
Old Trafford wicket always has something in for bowlers who can bend their back, lancashire legend wasim was a prime example, quickest bowling I've seen here live was mohammed sami from pakistan in odi back in 2001-2003 , was constantly above 95 mph
 
Titan24 said:
After two high 80s-90+ Mph bowlers Eng have suddenly turned to 3 bowlers who rarely go above 85 MPH.

Two different kind of extremes in my opinion. Yes conditions play a role but its always better to have bit of variety in your attack in case the conditions change throughout the test or weather varies.
Click to expand...
Was thinking that too. Rotate one of Archer and Wood so there's always the option of raw pace, with traditional English seamers making up the rest of the attack.

I wouldn't play Archer and Wood together in England unless it's a hard, bouncy pitch. Nor would I play three 85mph line and length seamers as on flat surfaces that attack is too one dimensional.
 
Manunited18 said:
England attack looks so one dimensional and a very inexperienced spinner, what I can't understand is why stokes not bowled, hes the quickest out of the seamers in the current line up
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He’s an batsman who bowls these days, not a test allrounder. He is what Botham should have become in his last few years.
 
Robert said:
Frustrating.

Bess is not up to it. Wood should be playing to inject pace. Stokes is no longer a frontline bowler.
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England need to stick with bess for the rest of the summer at least, can't chop and change, they need to give him confidence with stability in selection. As for stokes I think root introduced him to late and no way he's finished as a front line seamer, his work load obviously being managed after scoring a big ton.
 
Robert said:
He’s an batsman who bowls these days, not a test allrounder. He is what Botham should have become in his last few years.
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The main reason for that is his work load is being mansged as he over the last 2 years been England's best bat.
 
Dom Bess needs to be backed, no one exactly pulling trees down when it comes to spin in England.
 
Impressive from Brathwaite, almost has saved the Test. Still 150+ overs to go though.
 
England need to go back to Leach.

Great chance for Windies for their first away series draw/ win against a major test nation in a long time.
 
I know the result from the first test wasn't positive for England but this is literally their B bowling line up. Woakes and Curran have no chance of bowling sides out on unhelpful pitches. In fact there is no room for both of them in a team that includes Stokes also. Bess is quite ordinary too.

I've not watched county cricket in a while but they need to start selecting genuine bowlers and not bowlers who can bat a bit. Yes there is always room for bowlers who are handy with the bat, but 3 of them ( woakes, curran and bess) is not going to win you a test match.
 
Markhor said:
I wouldn't play Archer and Wood together in England unless it's a hard, bouncy pitch. Nor would I play three 85mph line and length seamers as on flat surfaces that attack is too one dimensional.
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Exactly. I think only one of Archer or Wood should have played the first test and atleast one of both should have played this test. If Archer wasn’t available Wood should have been in the XI.
 
Brathwaite gone for 75.

Windies hanging in there, with Stokes attacking them with the short ball.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
Conditions and the Dukes ball I think. Even genuine quicks from visiting teams seem to cut down their pace when they bowl here
Click to expand...

I think problem which some visiting quicks face isnt the pace rather the lengths they ball which usually arent full enough. As we saw in the first test Shanon Gabriel who is pretty quick and not someone who swings the ball much was in the man of the match. He bowled fuller length more often than not and got the results.
 
Ab Fan said:
I think the plan was to persist with Broad, Archer and Woakes/Curran but Archer did his drama.

I see the return of Anderson and Archer both in next test.
Click to expand...

Should have gone with Wood in my opinion if Archer wasn’t available. Yes I also see Anderson and Archer back in for the 3rd test. Resting Anderson on his home ground test where he averages 21 was pretty surprising.
 
70 more runs and England will have to bat again.

But as long as Stokes is there, an opposition captain won't feel the game is safe.
 
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WI have lacked solidity in their middle order since Chanderpaul retired. However Brooks has made a nice start to his Test career.
 
England must bowl out Windies today or else the match is gonna be a draw.
 
If England is to win this Test, they must take 3-4 wickets with second ball. 35 overs left today and England should look to wrap up WIN innings by stumps.
 
Markhor said:
WI have lacked solidity in their middle order since Chanderpaul retired. However Brooks has made a nice start to his Test career.
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Nah. He was garbage vs India, then scored a cheap century vs minnows Afghanistan.
 
HappyWarsFan said:
Nah. He was garbage vs India, then scored a cheap century vs minnows Afghanistan.
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India was his debut series and they have a fantastic seam attack currently, many debutants would struggle.

That hundred in Lucknow was on a turning pitch where most other WI batsmen struggled. Without that ton, WI could've been embarrassed.

And so far he's looked decent vs England so deserves a run. It's not like WI have a lot of batting depth when you look at FC cricket.
 
Markhor said:
India was his debut series and they have a fantastic seam attack currently, many debutants would struggle.

That hundred in Lucknow was on a turning pitch where most other WI batsmen struggled. Without that ton, WI could've been embarrassed.

And so far he's looked decent vs England so deserves a run. It's not like WI have a lot of batting depth when you look at FC cricket.
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Shamarh Brooks has never played in india.
 
Once Shimron Hetmyer and Darren Bravo return some of these will lose their place. Shai Hope for example hasn't been doing well for some time. Even Blackwood made a comeback and has to show that he can perform consistently.
 
A much needed spell from Broad. This could be a turnaround moment for England. But they need them all out before stumps to make a match of it.
 
17 runs to avoid the follow on, three wickets in hand.....
 
Batting collapses aren't far away with West Indies.

England are back in with a shout. They need to dismiss WI before stumps.
 
Stokes leaves the field holding his stomach.

Another wicket too.

Windies looking nervous.
 
Some deliveries staying low and some rising up, with that uneven bounce not looking easy to bat out there.
 
If England gets the opportunity to enforce follow-on, I would say don’t do it; weather permitting today & tomorrow. Bowlers have bowled ~80 overs already today and another 20 to go.

If they get WIN all-out with 15 overs left, I would bat again, and bat aggressively for 20 overs (5 tomorrow), then use the heaviest of rollers and set WIN ~350 To chase or survive 91 overs. Those18 make up overs are crucial here, because that might allow ENG 10-12 overs with second new ball at dead end of day 5.

As I write, Chase has saved follow-on; well played. After 47 & 26 (& two wickets) in win; he has a 5 for & 42* so far in second Test - decent challenge for Shadab to match, I guess. [MENTION=132916]Junaids[/MENTION], what do you reckon?
 
West Indies have avoided follow-on. England have to bat again.

I think England should score quickfire 100-120 and declare.
 
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England have a good chance now. Broad’s wickets have got them back into it.

Jason Holder is looking very unhappy on the balcony. I think he knows that his team are in trouble.

Windies will need to bat 75 overs tomorrow to save the game in my opinion.
 
If Windies manage to survive remaining overs in today's play then it will be a draw.
 
James said:
England have a good chance now. Broad’s wickets have got them back into it.

Jason Holder is looking very unhappy on the balcony. I think he knows that his team are in trouble.

Windies will need to bat 75 overs tomorrow to save the game in my opinion.
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Question is how many runs Eng would like to add where they feel comfortable.
 
1st wrong decision by umpire Gough in 4 years.

Woakes and broad are a must play in england
 
andy0204 said:
If Windies manage to survive remaining overs in today's play then it will be a draw.
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If it doesn’t rain further and we have all of remaining 111 overs, Poms have this Test in pocket. We are watching cricket in an era perverted by the p*rn version of of it.
 
Ab Fan said:
150 runs, 10 overs today and 15 tomorrow.
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They’ll leave 89-91 overs tomorrow - if WIN is all out in next 1-2 overs. Those 10-12 overs with second ball will be match winner - in any case, give WIN two days, they won’t cross 250 in fourth innings.
 
Roston Chase has done a good job surviving 85 balls and ensuring WI go past the follow-on. I am interested in Windies approach tomorrow.

Braithwaite, Chase, Brookes they can go for block- mode to save this test match.
 
MMHS said:
They’ll leave 89-91 overs tomorrow - if WIN is all out in next 1-2 overs. Those 10-12 overs with second ball will be match winner - in any case, give WIN two days, they won’t cross 250 in fourth innings.
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Yeah, the second ball factor will be in Root's mind. But the question is will they play the trick of giving Windies a target of 270 in 90 overs.

It's gonna be fun though. I would like Windies to go block-mode tomorrow. England's spin options are not good enough.
 
West Indies are all out for 287.

England lead by 182 runs.

England should try to score 100-120 in 12 overs. Treat it like T20. Then declare.
 
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