England beat India by 227 runs in the 1st Test in Chennai

[silentkiller187]

Winners write history.

Now we can wax lyricals about how looking "weak" was part of their strategy.

But dead batting aimlessly in last session on Day 4 did look stupid.

Just that it didn't cost them.

This is an objective statement, to you it looked stupid but to me it was part of the strategy, this is the point I am trying to make, it worked as England got the desired end result so they were validated.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

That is an interesting take and i concur. I think of all the Asian teams probably Sri Lanka is the only one that knows how alto strategize and make most of their limited resources. India and Pakistan mostly feel like “winging it” as they go. They rely on the immense talent.

India, I always felt had a very one trick strategy. They rely heavily on their batting and putting a big score on the board or have immense confidence in chasing any total. But it falls flat if they lose key wickets. Like you said the 2017 champions trophy final is an example of that. Pakistan tends to rely on putting a half decent score and their bowlers then doing the job. But when bowlers fail, they fall apart.

So it’s very true in a way. There is very little moving out of their comfort zones or thinking outside the box.

Yeah lol.

Take ODIs for example.

We would rather celebrate a 100 (100) on a flat track than question why a batsman is wasting limited resources (balls) instead of maximizing the output (necessary for modern ODIs).

England realized the concept of resource utilization better than any LOI team and the results are there in front of all of us.

 

[silentkiller187]

Meh.

Hardly discrediting England's win.

You seem to not look beyond binary thinking. I ain't even talking about long term strategy with the Pujara example.

You can applaud England while being critical of their strategy.

You can talk about the realities of how the test could have been saved by India while praising England for doing their job.

Let's leave it here.

Yee we can agree to disagree but ultimately you can also say well done England they made their plans stuck to them and they saw them through the game. It’s all objective and the only measure we have of who was right is the end result I am afraid.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Yee we can agree to disagree but ultimately you can also say well done England they made their plans stuck to them and they saw them through the game. It’s all objective and the only measure we have of who was right is the end result I am afraid.

How many times do I have to say well done to England for you to be satisfied, mate?

Go and check my posts.

Credit has been given.

They were the deserving winners.

 

[silentkiller187]

How many times do I have to say well done to England for you to be satisfied, mate?

Go and check my posts.

Credit has been given.

They were the deserving winners.

And they executed ALL their plans impeccably

 

[Stewie]

Yeah lol.

Take ODIs for example.

We would rather celebrate a 100 (100) on a flat track than question why a batsman is wasting limited resources (balls) instead of maximizing the output (necessary for modern ODIs).

England realized the concept of resource utilization better than any LOI team and the results are there in front of all of us.

And I remember how they almost killed Dravid when he declared an innings when Tendu was closing in on a triple century or something. The debate raged for years. I think even Tendulkar himself was not happy. Dravid wanted to go for the win so he called it as captain. I don’t know if India won or not but the match was remembered for that controversy.

Similarly imran once declared when Miandad was close to a big milestone like that as well and there was a lot of hate around for him.

Our people think small and lose sight of the ultimate objective unfortunately.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

And I remember how they almost killed Dravid when he declared an innings when Tendu was closing in on a triple century or something. The debate raged for years. I think even Tendulkar himself was not happy. Dravid wanted to go for the win so he called it as captain. I don’t know if India won or not but the match was remembered for that controversy.

Similarly imran once declared when Miandad was close to a big milestone like that as well and there was a lot of hate around for him.

Our people think small and lose sight of the ultimate objective unfortunately.

True.

But later turns out Tendulkar was given a set number of overs and the declaration happened before that.

That's what he couldn't digest more than the milestone.

To this day, I dunno what happened in that confusion.

But yeah...agree with your point.

The funny thing about modern ODI is that a player could have GOLDEN stats (average, SR) and still be playing match losing knocks unlike the past.

This is where most teams lag behind England.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

And they executed ALL their plans impeccably

Sure they executed their plans perfectly from ball 1.

Including the aimless dead batting.

 

[Cric1234]

The match was in England’s hands from the start and the bowlers did well today especially Anderson a match winning spell against the top order ensuring India were always under pressure with some help for the spin bowlers who did their job.

Next time the tables can turn if India bat first expect a strong comeback from them India are still well ahead of Pakistan who beat a weak SA team and now are harbouring false hopes of number 1 ranking.

 

[silentkiller187]

Sure they executed their plans perfectly from ball 1.

Including the aimless dead batting.

Aimless for you but it helped them win the game, but again don’t take it personally. I will return on the 2nd test when hopefully India do better then you can have a go at me for England’s tactics in that game

 

[Cric1234]

England should aim for 1 more win 2 wins in India would be a big achievement considering how strong India have been at home.

 

[Justcrazy]

Very good win by England here , It would be interesting to see how England fare once they lose the toss , that will be the next challenge now for them.

 

[Pakhs]

Now I have heard it all! Batsmen from a Kumble’ sera were better players of spin than batsmen of today? Really? What a load of bull!

The ability of modern day batsmen from England, Australia, NZ and SA to play spin has increased immensely due to exposure in IPL.
England and SA batsmen used to be utterly clueless against spin. But now we have Root, Amla, AB, Williamson, Smith who are far superior players of spin than their compatriots of yesteryears.

Jadeja record being superior to Kumble has only one explanation the pitches he has played on.

 

[Pakhs]

First of all, if you wanna rate Kumble and Bhajji higher than Ash & jaddu...that's fine.

But don't use Bhajji's statements bro. That guy is like Warne. Can't even be taken seriously. If you have been following his saga closely, you would see the pattern of trying to undermine Indian spinners. He was trolled badly by Indians in Twitter.



All I am saying is there are soo many variety of pitches in Asia.

There is rank turners (hardest to play). Low scoring.

Then there are rare rank turners which are high scoring (think Chennai 2013 when Aus themselves put 380 in first innings and India responded with 500+...the ball was spinning like a top from day 1 yet the bounce was true and runs were there for the taking).

Then there are good turners.

Then slow turners.

Then there are deadish pitches with super slow turn. Hard to score runs. hard to pick wickets. Think UAE first 3 days.

Then there are complete pattas.

I am just talking about pitches for spinners. These pitches may or may not favour pacers. Its a mixed bag.

---

Now coming to history:

90s - Super spin tracks. We won everything at home. Nothing away.

2000s - Super flat tracks. Our batting gen benefitted massively out of it but we hardly whitewashed teams at home and our bowlers had their stats affected by it. Entire decade wasn't like this but the amount of dull pitches were a lot.

2010s - Lively pitches of all types.

Early 2012 - 15...there were more fast and rank turners mixed in other pitches...

But post 2015...the pitches changed.

2016 NZ series - Good turner in first test, pace friendly pitch in 2nd and a turner again in 3rd (nothing like 2015 ones as you can see in scorecard)
2016 Eng series - Flat tracks
2017 Aus series - Turners for first 2 tests, flat track in Ranchi and a pacy track in Dharmashala
2019 SA series - Flat tracks

---

Dhoni didn't come and doctor all pitches.

India did doctor a few to our advantage and the list is easily available.

But overall, there has been a healthy mix of all types of pitches.

In fact, Aus were served a pacy pitch for the decider in 2017.

You cant deny the fact that Jadeja superior record to kumble is to do wiht the amount of time kumble had to play against good players of spin on traditionally flat Indian pitches specially in the first two days. Now for this pitch Virat, Ashwin and Ishant have been heard moaning already how else would you explain all this.

 

[Pakhs]

This post is a result of extreme bias + little understanding of cricket.

India purposely serving rank turners! Heck their batting against spinners is as bad as the rest of the international teams.

lol Watch Virat, Ashwin and Ishant statements after this match I called it on the first day. This was a traditional subcontinent wicket but Ishant has said he felt like he was bowling on road for the first day. This is a comment to put pressure on the curator who will more than likely wont do the same mistake again.

And if you think Indians are bad players of spin then you cant be helped no matter what, They treated Lyon like he was a club bowler I guess you think Pakistani players are better lol

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

You cant deny the fact that Jadeja superior record to kumble is to do wiht the amount of time kumble had to play against good players of spin on traditionally flat Indian pitches specially in the first two days. Now for this pitch Virat, Ashwin and Ishant have been heard moaning already how else would you explain all this.

Again your preconceived notions are getting the better of you mate.

Jadeja IS superior to Kumble on flat tracks.

He IS superior to Ashwin on flat tracks.

He keeps it tight and chips in wiclets on flat tracks and when conditions are right, he picks up a lot of wickets.

Time and time again Jaddu has proven himself on flat tracks.

Dont go by his boring bowling. His accuracy and speed works to his advantage.

Jaddu having a superior average doesnt mean he is better than Kumble tho. Thats up for debate as Kumble carried the bowling on his shoulders.

 

[Pakhs]

Oh bhai it’s the pace attack which has been doing most of the job in first innings.

Apart from 2015 SA series, Pune match against Aus and perhaps a couple here and there; pitches have been generally sporting.

Not sure you know what a rank turners is if you’re making this claim. Obv pitches in India WILL spin to some degree and get more spinning as the match progresses so if that’s your definition of a rank turner then good for you.

Besides Indian batting against spin is as mediocre as any side in international cricket so it’s not even in their interest to have total rank turners and make the match a lottery

You cant be helped if after all these years of following cricket you think Indian batting line up is mediocre players of spin. You must know more than all pundits and the rest lol

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

You cant be helped if after all these years of following cricket you think Indian batting line up is mediocre players of spin. You must know more than all pundits and the rest lol

Indian batting lineup IS currently mediocre against spin.

Did you wake up after a long sleep bro?

Indian team has changed.

 

[Slog]

You cant be helped if after all these years of following cricket you think Indian batting line up is mediocre players of spin. You must know more than all pundits and the rest lol

You clearly don’t follow cricket much. Or maybe you’re stuck in the 2000s. Just because previous generations were ATGs against spin doesn’t mean India have automatic right to be great against spin. Anyways; Either way you’re coming across as pretty clueless.

 

[silentkiller187]

You cant be helped if after all these years of following cricket you think Indian batting line up is mediocre players of spin. You must know more than all pundits and the rest lol

Back in the day India were the masters of spin , Pakistan weren’t so bad either, however these days both teams struggle, Bess and Leach are no ones pick when it comes to choosing spinners from the current bunch but they gave India problems. Similarly Babar Azam was found out again by spin in the SA tests and he’s meant to be Pakistan’s best batsmen for a long time. There has definitely been a shift in momentum recently , and you could even argue aus and English batsmen probably play spin better at some stages than their Asian counterparts.

 

[Stewie]

It’s hard for me to digest though. Here is my take on it:
I don’t think Pakistani-Indian batsmen are necessarily bad players of spin. They are just used to playing the modern day spinners who tend to bowl on a flatter trajectory. Kind of like medium pacers with not much spin.

England has always been very conservative and they go with classic skills in every field. Their spin bowlers still flight the ball. And I think that’s what’s getting to the Asian batsmen. Flight is such a massive weapon for spinners which our bowlers tend to have forgotten because of the impatience of T20s cricket and the instant gratification that comes with it.

Of course I could be totally wrong here.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

It’s hard for me to digest though. Here is my take on it:
I don’t think Pakistani-Indian batsmen are necessarily bad players of spin. They are just used to playing the modern day spinners who tend to bowl on a flatter trajectory. Kind of like medium pacers with not much spin.

England has always been very conservative and they go with classic skills in every field. Their spin bowlers still flight the ball. And I think that’s what’s getting to the Asian batsmen. Flight is such a massive weapon for spinners which our bowlers tend to have forgotten because of the impatience of T20s cricket and the instant gratification that comes with it.

Of course I could be totally wrong here.

Desi batsman dont play on real turners these days in domestic. So their skills have regressed.

And none of them really sweep. Someone like younis khan would run circles around them.

Pant sweeps. Gill sweeps too i heard. So its not all bad for the next gen.

----

Flight is a double edged sword like sweep.

If you can use it, you can do great things (like how Root destroyed our spinners) but lots of chances for it to go wrong.

Anyone can flight it but to get it to pitch on the right length (preferably with dip) is really really hard.

Take Dom bess.

From what little i saw from replays, he was trying to flight it in second innings but he couldnt get it right.

He was overpitching or bowling full tosses and was duly dispatched.

Its a tough art really.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Desi batsman dont play on real turners these days in domestic. So their skills have regressed.

To be honest, I think it's a mix of regression of skills over the last decade due to the declining focus on first-class cricket as much as a serial change in how to technically play spin bowling in test matches.

There were some great players of spin 20 years ago who would, of course, still be great players today, however, the advent of DRS has basically eliminated the old manner of playing spin with the pads stretched out in front of the bat.

Umpires were generally loath to giving any lbws off spin bowlers unless it was genuinely plumb. Now the idea of using the pads as a first line of defence would be suicide, so all the batsmen that can't sweep effectively are at sea.

 

[Stewie]

Desi batsman dont play on real turners these days in domestic. So their skills have regressed.

And none of them really sweep. Someone like younis khan would run circles around them.

Pant sweeps. Gill sweeps too i heard. So its not all bad for the next gen.

----

Flight is a double edged sword like sweep.

If you can use it, you can do great things (like how Root destroyed our spinners) but lots of chances for it to go wrong.

Anyone can flight it but to get it to pitch on the right length (preferably with dip) is really really hard.

Take Dom bess.

From what little i saw from replays, he was trying to flight it in second innings but he couldnt get it right.

He was overpitching or bowling full tosses and was duly dispatched.

Its a tough art really.

But sweep is not the best way to play spin to begin with. It was a technique deployed by the South Africans in the 90s to counter spin but the Asian batsmen never needed it. They were just very good with playing spin using their feet which is the right text book method. You dance down to the pitch and don’t allow the ball to turn. But you do that only when the ball is flighted. If it’s flatter and faster you can’t come down the track. It’s hard to make contact or keep the shot down.

Good conventional spin bowling is all about flight (and that includes pitching the ball with flight in the right area) and slowing it down. When you slow it down, you get more spin. But it means you are also giving the batsman more time to adjust. Which is why spinners who employed the proper technique more often and more consistently are applauded because they are brave and are not scared of being hit in order to create more opportunities to get a wicket. I think this is the part of classical spin bowling that is vanishing with LOI cricket and because of that the batsmen today are also starting to forget how to play it properly which is what we are witnessing with the Asian batsmen.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

But sweep is not the best way to play spin to begin with. It was a technique deployed by the South Africans in the 90s to counter spin but the Asian batsmen never needed it. They were just very good with playing spin using their feet which is the right text book method. You dance down to the pitch and don’t allow the ball to turn. But you do that only when the ball is flighted. If it’s flatter and faster you can’t come down the track. It’s hard to make contact or keep the shot down.

Good conventional spin bowling is all about flight (and that includes pitching the ball with flight in the right area) and slowing it down. When you slow it down, you get more spin. But it means you are also giving the batsman more time to adjust. Which is why spinners who employed the proper technique more often and more consistently are applauded because they are brave and are not scared of being hit in order to create more opportunities to get a wicket. I think this is the part of classical spin bowling that is vanishing with LOI cricket and because of that the batsmen today are also starting to forget how to play it properly which is what we are witnessing with the Asian batsmen.

1. Sweep is a weapon like bouncer. Use it well and you can reap rewards from other methods.

A couple of well directed bouncers would helpnyou get an edge of a simple fuller length delivery.

Same way, sweep can put bowlers off length and help you tackle them easily.

If its your only weapon like how some westeners use it.... Then you are doomed.

The fact that modern day bats dont use sweep is a hugeeeeee handicap.

Thats like a bowler without a solid bouncer. He can still succeed but its so much harder.

See how our old era played spin. They would use their feet nornally but at the same time sweep and destroy your rhythm too.

2. Conventional spin is all about flight. But its not just about bowling slow but to impart revs on the ball.

More revs = more dip and turn

Modern day loi doesnt reward such bowlers.

Today batsman may struggle against spinners who dip but if they miss the length, the ball will land on the roof.

Even in tests, bowlers missing their length will be brutally punished.

It will be interesting to see if such spinners emerge. Its not only about fear but also skill.

Such type of bowling requires supreme mastery and doing it for 30 overs a day against modern bats is hard.

Not saying it cant be done but that its a really tough art.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

To be honest, I think it's a mix of regression of skills over the last decade due to the declining focus on first-class cricket as much as a serial change in how to technically play spin bowling in test matches.

There were some great players of spin 20 years ago who would, of course, still be great players today, however, the advent of DRS has basically eliminated the old manner of playing spin with the pads stretched out in front of the bat.

Umpires were generally loath to giving any lbws off spin bowlers unless it was genuinely plumb. Now the idea of using the pads as a first line of defence would be suicide, so all the batsmen that can't sweep effectively are at sea.

This is a great point too.

Try such tactics against Jaddu on a turner (with modern rules) and he will eat you alive.

Its mind blowing how inferior modern bats are with sweep. Its the ultimate weapon to put a bowler off length relatively risk free.

 

[Stewie]

This is a great point too.

Try such tactics against Jaddu on a turner (with modern rules) and he will eat you alive.

Its mind blowing how inferior modern bats are with sweep. Its the ultimate weapon to put a bowler off length relatively risk free.

I disagree on the sweep. It’s a high risk low reward shot. You are essentially playing across the line close to the stump. LBW is always in play. It might be great for putting the bowler of his length like you said but it’s not the be all end all of countering spin. Kohli doesn’t play it at all and he plays spin just fine. Inzi rarely played it and he was a great player of spin as well.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I disagree on the sweep. It’s a high risk low reward shot. You are essentially playing across the line close to the stump. LBW is always in play. It might be great for putting the bowler of his length like you said but it’s not the be all end all of countering spin. Kohli doesn’t play it at all and he plays spin just fine. Inzi rarely played it and he was a great player of spin as well.

Kohli is a relatively weak player of spin compared to legends.

Dude struggles against a good Moeen Ali spell.

Didnt do anything vs swann and monty in 2012 baring the century on a dead track.

Had a horror 2017 Aus home tour.

Only knock of note is Lyon 2014 one.

----

Sweep is not essential but it makes it hard.

Pujara is amazing against spin but dude doesnt have sweep in his arsenal and it hurts him at times.

Even a flick is risky if you miss it.

Watch sachin highlights against warne 1998.

Or even his 241 in sydney.

He puts on a sweep masterclass.

 

[Last Monetarist]

I disagree on the sweep. It’s a high risk low reward shot. You are essentially playing across the line close to the stump. LBW is always in play. It might be great for putting the bowler of his length like you said but it’s not the be all end all of countering spin. Kohli doesn’t play it at all and he plays spin just fine. Inzi rarely played it and he was a great player of spin as well.

The likes of Miandad, Salim Malik, Saeed Anwar were all very proficient at playing the sweep shot though. Inzamam arguably didn't need it that much because he was so quick at judging the length of the ball so he could adjust his feet accordingly. I don't think it's a high risk shot unless it's the sole attacking stroke that one plays.

Indian batsmen in general have had access to a wide array of attacking shots against spin bowling so they have probably not seemed to use the sweep extensively, although Tendulkar, Sehwag, Ganguly, and Azharuddin were all pretty good at it.

 

[Stewie]

The likes of Miandad, Salim Malik, Saeed Anwar were all very proficient at playing the sweep shot though. Inzamam arguably didn't need it that much because he was so quick at judging the length of the ball so he could adjust his feet accordingly. I don't think it's a high risk shot unless it's the sole attacking stroke that one plays.

Indian batsmen in general have had access to a wide array of attacking shots against spin bowling so they have probably not seemed to use the sweep extensively, although Tendulkar, Sehwag, Ganguly, and Azharuddin were all pretty good at it.

Most coaches would say otherwise:

https://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12172/6930446/sweep-to-conquer

But perhaps it’s the older generation thinking and now it’s considered a high value shot, but in all my years of playing cricket, I have seen good sweepers also fall to it. Either missing the line to get LBW or bowled, or getting caught at close fielding positions, or simply to edging the shot. The risk factors are always high. Using your feet, if you can drive the ball with a straight bat, you are solid. Since you are far down the track, you take the LBW out. You take the spin out. The only risk is missing the line and getting stumped. Then again I never got coached by today’s coaches..

 

[Last Monetarist]

Most coaches would say otherwise:

https://www.skysports.com/cricket/news/12172/6930446/sweep-to-conquer

But perhaps it’s the older generation thinking and now it’s considered a high value shot, but in all my years of playing cricket, I have seen good sweepers also fall to it. Either missing the line to get LBW or bowled, or getting caught at close fielding positions, or simply to edging the shot. The risk factors are always high. Using your feet, if you can drive the ball with a straight bat, you are solid. Since you are far down the track, you take the LBW out. You take the spin out. The only risk is missing the line and getting stumped. Then again I never got coached by today’s coaches..

In general, it's been non-Asian batsmen that have utilized the sweep exclusively against quality spin bowling. Asian batsmen have always had another gear against spin so one never notices how good they are at playing the sweep.

During the 80s, England were able to win a test series in India in 1984-85 simply because Graeme Fowler and Mike Gatting were able to sweep the Indian spinners off their length. Graham Gooch won a World Cup semi-final by sweeping his way to a hundred. Then you had Andy Flower and Matthew Hayden by the turn of the millennium having bumper series in the subcontinent. Brian Lara used it often against Muralitharan in 2001, although he had so many other strokes in his arsenal that he could put away the sweep and still score hundreds. More recently, Alastair Cook and Kevin Pietersen were able to employ it to good effect on a raging turner in Mumbai in 2012.

The risk you refer to is simply down to lack of ability. Batsmen that are good at the sweep shot rarely miss.

 

[Buffet]

In general, it's been non-Asian batsmen that have utilized the sweep exclusively against quality spin bowling. Asian batsmen have always had another gear against spin so one never notices how good they are at playing the sweep.

During the 80s, England were able to win a test series in India in 1984-85 simply because Graeme Fowler and Mike Gatting were able to sweep the Indian spinners off their length. Graham Gooch won a World Cup semi-final by sweeping his way to a hundred. Then you had Andy Flower and Matthew Hayden by the turn of the millennium having bumper series in the subcontinent. Brian Lara used it often against Muralitharan in 2001, although he had so many other strokes in his arsenal that he could put away the sweep and still score hundreds. More recently, Alastair Cook and Kevin Pietersen were able to employ it to good effect on a raging turner in Mumbai in 2012.

The risk you refer to is simply down to lack of ability. Batsmen that are good at the sweep shot rarely miss.

I think relying exclusively on sweep vs using it from time to time to disturb the bowler's line is different. Batmen without another way to play are going to use sweep heavily and some of them have done very well with it. As you said SC batsmen have other ways to play. But some SC batsmen, including SRT, have used sweep many times as well.

If you can play 10 shots and play all 10 then it becomes much harder for the bowler to plan. I see sweep as one more shot which a batsman can play.

 

[Stewie]

In general, it's been non-Asian batsmen that have utilized the sweep exclusively against quality spin bowling. Asian batsmen have always had another gear against spin so one never notices how good they are at playing the sweep.

During the 80s, England were able to win a test series in India in 1984-85 simply because Graeme Fowler and Mike Gatting were able to sweep the Indian spinners off their length. Graham Gooch won a World Cup semi-final by sweeping his way to a hundred. Then you had Andy Flower and Matthew Hayden by the turn of the millennium having bumper series in the subcontinent. Brian Lara used it often against Muralitharan in 2001, although he had so many other strokes in his arsenal that he could put away the sweep and still score hundreds. More recently, Alastair Cook and Kevin Pietersen were able to employ it to good effect on a raging turner in Mumbai in 2012.

The risk you refer to is simply down to lack of ability. Batsmen that are good at the sweep shot rarely miss.

Funny you mentioned Gatting and also the 87 World Cup. Do you know how he got out in the final to AustraliA and handed them the trophy? It was the reverse sweep that did him in!
But that’s a different shot altogether so not related to this topic.

 

[Last Monetarist]

I think relying exclusively on sweep vs using it from time to time to disturb the bowler's line is different. Batmen without another way to play are going to use sweep heavily and some of them have done very well with it. As you said SC batsmen have other ways to play. But some SC batsmen, including SRT, have used sweep many times as well.

If you can play 10 shots and play all 10 then it becomes much harder for the bowler to plan. I see sweep as one more shot which a batsman can play.

In effect, I think we are saying the same thing. However, I agree with [MENTION=134809]sensible-indian-fan[/MENTION] too that batsmen that can't play the sweep shot lack an essential weapon against spin bowling.

 

[Last Monetarist]

Funny you mentioned Gatting and also the 87 World Cup. Do you know how he got out in the final to AustraliA and handed them the trophy? It was the reverse sweep that did him in!
But that’s a different shot altogether so not related to this topic.

That was just a poorly executed shot rather than a misjudgement. Gatting was crucified for it by the media and fans because it was so rare for someone to play the reverse sweep, let alone in a World Cup final. We wouldn't think twice today if a batsmen got out playing a reverse sweep.

 

[Bigboii]

Ah thank God the Australia series was getting.to.thier heads
An L at home will do the trick hopefully!

 

[Stewie]

That was just a poorly executed shot rather than a misjudgement. Gatting was crucified for it by the media and fans because it was so rare for someone to play the reverse sweep, let alone in a World Cup final. We wouldn't think twice today if a batsmen got out playing a reverse sweep.

Agreed

 

[Pakhs]

Again your preconceived notions are getting the better of you mate.

Jadeja IS superior to Kumble on flat tracks.

He IS superior to Ashwin on flat tracks.

He keeps it tight and chips in wiclets on flat tracks and when conditions are right, he picks up a lot of wickets.

Time and time again Jaddu has proven himself on flat tracks.

Dont go by his boring bowling. His accuracy and speed works to his advantage.

Jaddu having a superior average doesnt mean he is better than Kumble tho. Thats up for debate as Kumble carried the bowling on his shoulders.

Kamble was miles better and he would have had 1000 wickets if he played on similar tracks.

 

[Pakhs]

Indian batting lineup IS currently mediocre against spin.

Did you wake up after a long sleep bro?

Indian team has changed.

Its not as good as Dravid, Sachin, Shewag, Laxman and Co they were one of the greatest players of spin but its still very good and the best in the world at present.

 

[Pakhs]

You clearly don’t follow cricket much. Or maybe you’re stuck in the 2000s. Just because previous generations were ATGs against spin doesn’t mean India have automatic right to be great against spin. Anyways; Either way you’re coming across as pretty clueless.

Back in the day India were the masters of spin , Pakistan weren’t so bad either, however these days both teams struggle, Bess and Leach are no ones pick when it comes to choosing spinners from the current bunch but they gave India problems. Similarly Babar Azam was found out again by spin in the SA tests and he’s meant to be Pakistan’s best batsmen for a long time. There has definitely been a shift in momentum recently , and you could even argue aus and English batsmen probably play spin better at some stages than their Asian counterparts.

Indian current batting line up dont play spin as good as Sachin, Laxman, Dravid, Sehwag etc but its still better than any other line up around the world. AUS and ENG have been white washed in UAE against Yasir alone multiple times. They are still the best in this generation just not as good as the previous ones who were just too good.