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England v India | 3rd Investec Test | July 27-31, 2014 | Ageas Bowl

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If India follow on it's 50-50. If they don't almost 100% of the time, we will end up chasing something between 350 and 420 in 90-120 overs. The lower the runs figure gets and the higher the overs figure, there's a very realistic chance that we will end up pulling off a miracle chase.

I very much doubt the latter. India will have to expect to chase 400 to win and that has only been done four times in history. India did it once, but they had Sunny, Amanarth and Vishy then.

I'll give them a 10% chance of doing it.
 
If India can somehow manage 400 runs, it will be a definite draw.

England will have to bat the whole day tomorrow and get a lead of 350 runs and let India bat the entire 5th day. I doubt if England can bundle out India in 90 overs on this pitch.

India some how has to look to play till lunch tomorrow and add another 60-70 runs. MSD needs to take the charge and play it like an ODI .
 
Agree with Robert that Eng will NOT enforce follow-on even if they have a chance. Jordan had an off-day, Anderson is tired & grumpy as always, Broad also troubled by niggles. If it's a spinning track and if spinners can take wickets then captain's may think of enforcing follow-on but most likely NOT in this case.

There is good chance for England to win from here but India can turn things around from here as well. Indian players are NOT known for grinding/stonewalling (except for Murali, Pujara & Rahane) the oppositions and Shikar seems to be a walking wicket in this series. If he can play at-least 1 or 2 full sessions in 2nd innings that will be a big boost for India. With Shikar, runs will flow if he is batting and the rest of the players will have positive mindset. Otherwise players will go in their negative zone blocking and make mistakes.

England heroes have showed up in 3rd test and hope Indian heroes does that in 2nd innings here on.
 
If India follow on it's 50-50. If they don't almost 100% of the time, we will end up chasing something between 350 and 420 in 90-120 overs. The lower the runs figure gets and the higher the overs figure, there's a very realistic chance that we will end up pulling off a miracle chase.

Only 5-6 times teams have chased 350+ in entire history. It's not only about runs or pitch. Pressure gets to them and this new bie Indians team is not immune to that.

Eng should win form here with 80% probability irrespective of follow on situation. I don't recall the last time Indians batted for a long time to save a test and this one is a newbie team. Let's see if they can save this test from this position.
 
Only 5-6 times teams have chased 350+ in entire history. It's not only about runs or pitch. Pressure gets to them and this new bie Indians team is not immune to that.

Eng should win form here with 80% probability irrespective of follow on situation. I don't recall the last time Indians batted for a long time to save a test and this one is a newbie team. Let's see if they can save this test from this position.

I'd argue that the vast majority of that historical sample is useless for evaluating present day circumstances, because most of it was on uncovered wickets, deteriorating surfaces and the like. Moreover, batsmen then didn't have the experience of chasing in ODI's etc often for a good benchmark comparison.

Fundamentals matter more than abstract factors like 'pressure' though the latter obviously matters hugely. More importantly, batsmen nowadays have a good reference point from ODI chases, which is why if it becomes 230 (70 overs) with 8 or 9 wickets left and the pitch is objectively good, the batsmen will literally know they have an excellent chance (the number won't be a monkey like in the past). It's the same reason why for the first time in history teams are chasing 350+ in ODI's regularly, 220+ can look vulnerable in a T20, and even ridiculous targets like 190 in 14 overs are getting achieved more ofen then they are failed.

I understand the ability to cop-out of a chase makes a huge difference, but there's a very clear point where these guys will realize that the chase is objectively easy and 'pressure' won't stop that realization. In fact, it's more likely England will feel pressure if India start well.

As for England winning 80% your reasoning is somewhat contradictory. If this is a team of newbies, why would the past performance of other Indians be relevant? This makes as much sense as guys saying Brazil was favorite because they won WC in the past. Players play the game, not countries (which are abstractions). When the personnel are different there's no reason to expect the old trend to continue, especially when the modern game is so different from the sample size you are reasoning from.

India may well lose, especially if they follow on, but otherwise, India winning is actually at least half as likely as India saving the test.
 
I'd argue that the vast majority of that historical sample is useless for evaluating present day circumstances, because most of it was on uncovered wickets, deteriorating surfaces and the like. Moreover, batsmen then didn't have the experience of chasing in ODI's etc often for a good benchmark comparison.

Fundamentals matter more than abstract factors like 'pressure' though the latter obviously matters hugely. More importantly, batsmen nowadays have a good reference point from ODI chases, which is why if it becomes 230 (70 overs) with 8 or 9 wickets left and the pitch is objectively good, the batsmen will literally know they have an excellent chance (the number won't be a monkey like in the past). It's the same reason why for the first time in history teams are chasing 350+ in ODI's regularly, 220+ can look vulnerable in a T20, and even ridiculous targets like 190 in 14 overs are getting achieved more ofen then they are failed.

I understand the ability to cop-out of a chase makes a huge difference, but there's a very clear point where these guys will realize that the chase is objectively easy and 'pressure' won't stop that realization. In fact, it's more likely England will feel pressure if India start well.

As for England winning 80% your reasoning is somewhat contradictory. If this is a team of newbies, why would the past performance of other Indians be relevant? This makes as much sense as guys saying Brazil was favorite because they won WC in the past. Players play the game, not countries (which are abstractions). When the personnel are different there's no reason to expect the old trend to continue, especially when the modern game is so different from the sample size you are reasoning from.

India may well lose, especially if they follow on, but otherwise, India winning is actually at least half as likely as India saving the test.

I don't think that we should read too much into what's going in the shorter formats. 250 is not a huge score and yet only 8 times that has been chased in 4th inning in the last 10 years in tests. But in shorter formats, 300s are getting chased frequently.

You misunderstood my comment regarding newbie. Newbie teams are normally not good at saving or winning games in alien/away conditions. Pressure gets to them a bit more than teams having plenty of experience. My comment had nothing to do with newbie being bad or being worse than the older generation. I was making a generic comment and not comparing two generations of Indian batsmen here by saying 'this newbie team'.

It will take some great effort by Indians to save this test and it will take a miracle to win it.
 
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I don't think that we should read too much into what's going in the shorter formats. 250 is not a huge score and yet only 8 times that has been chased in 4th inning in the last 10 years in tests. But in shorter formats, 300s are getting chased frequently.

You misunderstood my comment regarding newbie. Newbie teams are normally not good at saving or winning games in alien/away conditions. Pressure gets to them a bit more than teams having plenty of experience. My comment had nothing to do with newbie being bad or being worse than the older generation. I was making a generic comment and not comparing two generations of Indian batsmen here by saying 'this newbie team'.

It will take some great effort by Indians to save this test and it will take a miracle to win it.

I feel like this is using stats in the wrong kind of way.

There is a reason cricket is one of the sports worst suited to Sabermetric analysis, and this is because situations tend to very unlike each other.

In this case, you've got hold of the wrong category. 'high 4th innings chase' does apply to this situation, but most of the time a high fourth innings chase occurs, it's because either there's a vast gap in quality between the teams (not true here) or very difficult because pitch conditions are deteriorating (also not true here).

It's very rare to see a pitch this docile, (and even after India's collapse, we've actually seen 14 wickets fall in 3 days) and it seems incredibly unlikely that this pitch will suddenly start turning square or otherwise behaving strangely.

The really big question here is India's intent. Playing for a draw more often than not, results in a loss in these situations, and even on a docile pitch, trying to block every ball will invite disaster, even if the pitch has nothing at all (as both England and Srilanka can now testify). The latter can also tell you how safe looking targets can suddenly vanish when the opposition decides a draw is a loss. The more Pakistan attacked in that match, the less likely they looked to lose a wicket as the field spread out.

Another intangible is, England haven't won a Test in ages, and have just about scraped the odd ODI and a single T20 in many months of cricket, will they start doubting when an Indian partnership builds? Of course they will.
 
I'd argue that the vast majority of that historical sample is useless for evaluating present day circumstances, because most of it was on uncovered wickets, deteriorating surfaces and the like. Moreover, batsmen then didn't have the experience of chasing in ODI's etc often for a good benchmark comparison.

I'd say that most tests were played on covered wickets, given how many more a played now.
 
England v India | 3rd Investec Test | July 27-31, 2014 | Ageas Bowl | Day 4

England 569/7d

India 323/8 (102.0 ov)

India trail by 246 runs with 2 wickets remaining in the 1st innings
 
England have already bowled 102 overs and if they enforce the follow-on, they will probably have to bowl another 100 overs. Dont see a follow-on being enforced. And if India bat well (possible, given the track and tiring bowlers) after following on, we may see a third innings score of over 400 meaning England will have to chase 150+ on the final day.

If England decide to bat despite having a lead of 225, say, and bat positively (4RPO) for one and half sessions (roughly 45 overs), India will have to chase in excess of 375 in 4 sessions. And English bowlers would have a decent breather to be able to come hard at us in the 4th innings.
 
The England Fast bowlers will be hella tired after this one. What's the rest between the next match and this?
 
Poms need to get two remaining wickets and then bat positively. This will be best for them.
 
England's win looks the only possible result as of the start of today. Let's see what Day 4 has got in store for us..
 
The England Fast bowlers will be hella tired after this one. What's the rest between the next match and this?


The next test starts on 7 August at Old Trafford, so they will have just six days off.

I would have rested Broad for this one, but he has bowled really well. Badly needs the backup bowlers to take pressure off him, though.
 
"Today is Jimmy's birthday hope the spirits of England rise and they shatter India,"
 
England shouldn't enforce the follow on, India scoring 40 or so runs will make Cook's job a lot easier.
 
JIMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!


Come on, clean the #11 up and let's have a bat.
 
England need to enforce follow on here and be positive, sadly cook is mr defensive so doubt he will have faith to enforce it! if you run your bowlers into ground so be it, england need to force a win here!
 
England need to enforce follow on here and be positive, sadly cook is mr defensive so doubt he will have faith to enforce it! if you run your bowlers into ground so be it, england need to force a win here!

They can force a win more easily if they bat. Remember that there are two more tests and they have to look after Jimmy and Broad. Jimmy might get banned and that leaves Broad and a bunch of noobs. Think strategically!
 
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Good decision. However, Cook will have to trust his bowlers and give them four and a bit sessions to bowl India out. They just need to score around 160-180 more runs, dangle a carrot in front of the Indians and bowl them out.
 
5-53 for Jimmy in 26 overs, swinging it all day, on a good batting wicket under clear blue skies.

Magnificent!
 
England batting again :facepalm: - England need to bat quick here and get lead up to 400! they will need atleast 4 session to bowl India out i reckon.

Brave decision would be to have forced follow on, sadly cook doesnt have bravery or balls to do that.
 
That's it Chef, you've made the right call. Now pile the rocks on them.
 
England batting again :facepalm: - England need to bat quick here and get lead up to 400! they will need atleast 4 session to bowl India out i reckon.

Brave decision would be to have forced follow on, sadly cook doesnt have bravery or balls to do that.
Bowling again would have been silly, England have already bowled more than 100 overs.
 
Good move by England they just need to give India last session to bat.
 
Commies blasting India's pace. Would love to see Moeen and Buttler coming in at #3 and #4 and playing their natural, aggressive game.
 
Bowling again would have been silly, England have already bowled more than 100 overs.

There is meant to be some dodgy weather around and this is a test match so bowlers are expected some time to have big work loads, if england have to bat last then so be it. if bowlers are tired after the match then england can rotate them, key thing he is to try and win the test match
 
Also with Anderson bowling so welll he would have caused Indias openers issues and had good rythme!
 
They shouldn't be blocking around. Get into a positive frame of mind early on so its easier for the batsmen to come to play aggressively from the word go.
 
Come on England!! Pile up those runs big & quick & get these hecks out today itself.
 
I guess its very good decision to bat again for 2 full sessions and score about 250 or plus runs and lead will by 500 runs, then have a go at Indian batting for 120 overs mean 4 full sessions, with guaranty of not going to lose then English bowlers can unleash havoc on Indian batting with extra attacking fields and with a little lesser bowling workload, and if still India manage to escape defeat in such disastrous scenario then so be it. If England bowler can't get Indians all out in 120 overs in 4th inning then they would not be able to do so in 130+ overs either. Just can't see Indians getting out of jail in this test. After all they not South Africans,
 
india will need to bat around 125overs to save this test match

don't see them saving this test match
 
i like cook safety first approach, shouldn't be aggressive just for the sake of it, a lot of time still left in this test and weather is also not an issue.
 
Incredibly surprised by the lack of a declaration

Wrong move in my opinion
 
Ooh dear, double failure from Robson.

Can't trust these Aussie imports.
 
Incredibly surprised by the lack of a declaration

Wrong move in my opinion
I guess its very good decision to bat again for 2 full sessions and score about 250 or plus runs and lead will by 500 runs, then have a go at Indian batting for 120 overs mean 4 full sessions, with guaranty of not going to lose then English bowlers can unleash havoc on Indian batting with extra attacking fields and with a little lesser bowling workload, and if still India manage to escape defeat in such disastrous scenario then so be it.
Still surprised?
 
Cricinfo commentary for the wicket

Kumar to Robson, OUT, slip catch taken! India, you beauty!

I thought something spectacular or game changing happened.
 
Cricinfo commentary for the wicket

Kumar to Robson, OUT, slip catch taken! India, you beauty!

I thought something or game changing happened.
A team which have dropped 7 catches atleast in last 4 innings in slips alone, takes a catch then isn't it spectacular???????????????? :troll
 
I guess its very good decision to bat again for 2 full sessions and score about 250 or plus runs and lead will by 500 runs, then have a go at Indian batting for 120 overs mean 4 full sessions, with guaranty of not going to lose then English bowlers can unleash havoc on Indian batting with extra attacking fields and with a little lesser bowling workload, and if still India manage to escape defeat in such disastrous scenario then so be it.
Still surprised?

Yes.

They had India on the ropes and a few early wickets would almost make victory 100% certain.
 
England playing for a draw....:)

Missing bumble on commentary on sky....:(
Strauss was such a boring captain....his commentary is worse....He is negative in any everything about attacking cricket
 
Yes.

They had India on the ropes and a few early wickets would almost make victory 100% certain.

They still have India on the ropes.

If Chef had a Pigeon and Warney instead of a Jimmy and a Mo I would agree with you about the follow-on.
 
England should promote Butler incase a wicket falls, Need to go after everything after Lunch
 
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