What's new

Game of Thrones [SPOILER ALERT]

Going back to what the red witch said, Arya still have to shut a pair of green eyes and there is only one person left in the show with green eyes. So I am changing my opinion. I think it will be Arya and not Jon to take dany out..
 
Yeah, I asked people to keep the faith.

I was wrong.

What a **** of an ending to this saga.
 
Along with the very obvious reasons for Dany becoming the MAD QUEEN i.e ; losing the her closest aides (messandei, jorah). She has no other way to earn the respects of the citizens of kings landing besides to put FEAR in them.

Daenerys went after the very people who gave her the cold shoulder for all the sacrifices she made.

Let's not forget this is not a disney princess, she is a Targayrean with 3 full blooded dragons. She always had the entitlement and air of being the 'chosen one.'

Ever since the day she got those dragons, she always had those names 'breaker of chains, queen of andals, khaleesi' with her. The more cities she conquered her rightful claim to the throne grew. As her reputation and her pride.

All that pride was taken away from her as soon as she landed in Kings Landing. What should've been a straight forward victory turned into multiple defeats. She managed to get a few people on her side with trying to get the white walkers to kings landing, sacrificing one of her dragons.

But the overall reception that she got was one of an outsider bringing in a Dothraki heard and Unsullied army from beyond.

The major losses that she incurred in season 8 are being called a convenient breaking point by many, but let's not forget that the people who are left by her side are not completely on her side. Tyrion has an agenda to save the Lannister name, Jon has a better claim to the throne. Jon's arc as the next in line to thrown gave her as much insecurity as she could get from losing a dragon, or losing a close ally. She just realized that she can never have the adultation that people have for Jon Snow despite all her efforts. She has never been challenged as a claim to the throne, always been no.1 in her eyes and her perception. Now she feels threatened.

Varys betrayal i.e if he has sent the letters to all the 7 kingdom means that if given an open choice, all the kingdoms will side Jon as the rightful king. Since he has a bigger claim to the throne. Since he is the son of Rhaegar Targayrean and Lyanna Stark.

What does Daenerys have? Unsulled? Dothraki? A Dragon? Not the love of the people that she once had, Daenerys was loved by the poor, by the slaves. Who will she free in Kings Landing? No one took her entitlement as the queen anymore, she was someone who never has had anyone doubt her. People are free to make their choices here. They don't need the savior from outside to free them from the chains.
They see her as a conquerer just like the Mad King. The people of Winterfell never loved her either.

Ollena Tyrell said all the men in Westeros are sheep, are you a sheep? You're a dragon, be a dragon!

She decided to show everyone what it means to have even one dragon and what can be achieved from it.

Granted the innocent casualties could've been avoided, there is no doubt however that a siege to Kings Landing will have innocent casualties, there is just no way to avoid that. The directors and creators made it as clear as day and light could be though. Very elaborate and reckless to take the message home.

People may have never saw it coming, but a dragon as big as Drogon is the equivalent of a nuclear bomb. All that power in one woman's hand, regardless of how considerate and empathetic she is, will eventually lead to cataclysmic effect if antagonized the wrong way.

This takes me back to Tyrion's arc when he was made out to be a monster by the people of Kings Landing
He said to them, "I'm not the monster you think I am" - he tried really hard to tell everyone he is innocent and didn't kill Joffrey, everyone around him wanted to prove it otherwise. However after the hurt and abused he received, when he got the chance to be free he actually became the monster people thought he'd always be. In one night he murdered his lover and the most evil man in Westeros at that time.

Daenerys tried really hard to prove to everyone she isn't a monster depsite having those 3 dragons. When she being Targayrean couldn't convince the people otherwise, she resorted to becoming the only person she could be, what people always thought she is. 'The mad queen".
 
AFM said:
Except for the fact that this is not their relationship in the books.
Click to expand...

They did not end up on good terms, but we still have a AWoW for further development. Also, I think the main reason why they deviate from the books when it comes to their relationship is because the story of Tysha, Tyrion's first wife, has not been fully explained on the show.
 
Mamoon said:
I don't think the intention of the writers (Martin and D&D) is to have multiple heroes. the character arcs of Cersie, Jamie, Theon, Daenerys etc. is to show that no one is inherently evil or good, and it is the circumstances that propel them to either spectrum.

Apart from the Knight King, the motivation of every so-called evil character has been explained and justified, and it is up to the audience to make their judgement. That is why there are people like you who despise the likes of Theon, Cersie, Jamie, Daenerys etc., and there are people who sympathise and even like them.

Theon betrayed the Starks to prove himself to his father, and his own sufferings made him realise that he was wrong. After that point, he did everything he could to help them.

Cersie did not have children with Robert because he loved Lyanna, and whatever she did during the timeline of the show was to protect her children. Even during her last moments, she cried not for her life but because she yet again failed to protect her child.

Jamie murdered his king to save his father and the city, he slept with his sister and crippled a child. However, after losing his sword hand, he realised that he is not invincible and he lost his arrogance. He honoured the promise he made to Catelyn Stark and honoured the promise of fighting the dead. Ultimately, his major weakness was his love for his sister, and that eventually cost him his life.

Varys, after getting emasculated, grew up as a thief. However, he learned to be loyal to the common man and he strove to have a just ruler on the iron throne.

You could go on and on about pretty much any character. It is a great disservice to the writers to claim that they want multiple heroes in this show or that Jon is the only good character.

All of them are beautifully written characters. There are no heroes or villains in this show, only people who are victims of their circumstances.
Click to expand...

I think its up to the viewer to see if any of their actions are justified which is why I wrote it depends on ones moral compass.

If you listen to the producers they feel differently to you. They stated clearly Theon needed to go out as a hero. You cannot use the excuse of circumstances for the crimes they have done unless you are making it clear this is in the context of a barbaric and backward society. If that's the case then fine.
 
The bells triggered the madness in her. The trigger is the bell and the cause is her Targaryan genes which malfunctioned because of incest.

Sorry, but i find this pretty pointless, the breaker of chains did not attack the Red keep when she actually had three dragons, remember when she chained her children because they killed a young boy?

So, the point is she wanted to be a queen and every other great aspect regarding her character and every good deed was to get to her ambition.

She is vengeful, sad and neurotic. Does she has control over her actions even? All along we had a queen who used care about masses and did great works in her life and now she has done worse than the Army of the dead, after almost 8 seasons.

I would not debate how other characters have been ruined , that is for all to see but i don't like this ending , particularly not such way!
 
Stewie said:
Going back to what the red witch said, Arya still have to shut a pair of green eyes and there is only one person left in the show with green eyes. So I am changing my opinion. I think it will be Arya and not Jon to take dany out..
Click to expand...

That makes some sense. Otherwise, Arya's 20 minutes of running in the 5th episode make it pointless. Jon could win the throne or the leadership. That would make him relevant in this season :))

Also Dany's character evolution also requires some justification. She has become exactly what she herself and her backers always denied - her father's legacy! The producers were saying that it was a payback for her family's exile.
At this point they themselves are not sure what they are actually doing. I read reports that HBO management wanted more episodes but i guess they realized it was too much for them. After all Martin himself said in 2018, "I've been struggling with it for a few years. The winds of winter is not so much a novel as a dozen novels, each with a different protagonist, each having a different cast of supporting players, antagonists, allies and lovers around them, and all of these weaving together against the march of time in an extremely complex fashion. So, it's very, very challenging "
 
waleed88 said:
Along with the very obvious reasons for Dany becoming the MAD QUEEN i.e ; losing the her closest aides (messandei, jorah). She has no other way to earn the respects of the citizens of kings landing besides to put FEAR in them.

Daenerys went after the very people who gave her the cold shoulder for all the sacrifices she made.

Let's not forget this is not a disney princess, she is a Targayrean with 3 full blooded dragons. She always had the entitlement and air of being the 'chosen one.'

Ever since the day she got those dragons, she always had those names 'breaker of chains, queen of andals, khaleesi' with her. The more cities she conquered her rightful claim to the throne grew. As her reputation and her pride.

All that pride was taken away from her as soon as she landed in Kings Landing. What should've been a straight forward victory turned into multiple defeats. She managed to get a few people on her side with trying to get the white walkers to kings landing, sacrificing one of her dragons.

But the overall reception that she got was one of an outsider bringing in a Dothraki heard and Unsullied army from beyond.

The major losses that she incurred in season 8 are being called a convenient breaking point by many, but let's not forget that the people who are left by her side are not completely on her side. Tyrion has an agenda to save the Lannister name, Jon has a better claim to the throne. Jon's arc as the next in line to thrown gave her as much insecurity as she could get from losing a dragon, or losing a close ally. She just realized that she can never have the adultation that people have for Jon Snow despite all her efforts. She has never been challenged as a claim to the throne, always been no.1 in her eyes and her perception. Now she feels threatened.

Varys betrayal i.e if he has sent the letters to all the 7 kingdom means that if given an open choice, all the kingdoms will side Jon as the rightful king. Since he has a bigger claim to the throne. Since he is the son of Rhaegar Targayrean and Lyanna Stark.

What does Daenerys have? Unsulled? Dothraki? A Dragon? Not the love of the people that she once had, Daenerys was loved by the poor, by the slaves. Who will she free in Kings Landing? No one took her entitlement as the queen anymore, she was someone who never has had anyone doubt her. People are free to make their choices here. They don't need the savior from outside to free them from the chains.
They see her as a conquerer just like the Mad King. The people of Winterfell never loved her either.

Ollena Tyrell said all the men in Westeros are sheep, are you a sheep? You're a dragon, be a dragon!

She decided to show everyone what it means to have even one dragon and what can be achieved from it.

Granted the innocent casualties could've been avoided, there is no doubt however that a siege to Kings Landing will have innocent casualties, there is just no way to avoid that. The directors and creators made it as clear as day and light could be though. Very elaborate and reckless to take the message home.

People may have never saw it coming, but a dragon as big as Drogon is the equivalent of a nuclear bomb. All that power in one woman's hand, regardless of how considerate and empathetic she is, will eventually lead to cataclysmic effect if antagonized the wrong way.

This takes me back to Tyrion's arc when he was made out to be a monster by the people of Kings Landing
He said to them, "I'm not the monster you think I am" - he tried really hard to tell everyone he is innocent and didn't kill Joffrey, everyone around him wanted to prove it otherwise. However after the hurt and abused he received, when he got the chance to be free he actually became the monster people thought he'd always be. In one night he murdered his lover and the most evil man in Westeros at that time.

Daenerys tried really hard to prove to everyone she isn't a monster depsite having those 3 dragons. When she being Targayrean couldn't convince the people otherwise, she resorted to becoming the only person she could be, what people always thought she is. 'The mad queen".
Click to expand...


All of that actually makes a lot of sense, the problem was it wasn't really well conveyed in this episode. That has been my main gripe with this season, it feels rushed, like they are just driving through the endgame to fit it all in at the expense of the dialogue which made it great. Although Dany's face crumpling into a twist of vengeful rage as she decided to lay waste was a rare highlight.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Its the people who are too emotinally invested who are upset at any fair and genuine criticism. Such people set their alarm clocks here in the UK or count down the mins in the US for the next episode to watch.

The reason im critical is 1. It's has gone down hill and 2 it started as a great show desinted to one of the best but not anymore. If you like it and cant see how poor it has been this series, its a good form of ignorance in entertainment. Im happy for you.



Thats not true, Dany made it clear to Sansa and other she will happily butcher or burn women and children if it meant taking Kings Landing, this was in the same episode but before her dragon was shot down and before Missi was caputured. It's a shame they didn't show her head close up being cut off, being such a pretty head.

Watch episode 4 when Tyrion leaves the hand and walks to beg Cersei to surrender. You could even see it on the actors face, he was almost embarrassed to have to spout such nonense which a child could have written. You cant be saying that was a great writing?

.
Click to expand...

I saw Dinklage acting out of his skin, as Tyrion dropped his ego in a desperate final attempt to appeal to his sister to avoid disaster. It was simple and beautiful and I nearly cried.
 
Sirris said:
Yes Drogon trying to burn Jon and him not getting burnt is THE epic moment I can't wait to watch. It would prove Jon's Targaryen blood for all. If this epic moment isn't added somewhere in the next episode then that would my biggest GoT disappointment.
Click to expand...


I don’t think Drogon would turn on a Targaryen. He would refuse to attack Jon and that would be Dany’s last ally gone.

In any event I don’t think even Dany is proof against dragon fire which disintegrates stone.
 
Robert said:
Though I think they should have had ten episodes not six - more time to tie it all up - I am enjoying season 8 more than 4 and 5. It’s got tremendous emotional wallop - like Ned Stark’s death or the Red Wedding, but concentrated and unrelenting.
Click to expand...

Give me what you are smoking. Concentrated and unrelenting? More like trying desperately hard to fit it all in 6 episodes. The 3rd episode was one of the most disappointing where the long night lasted half the episode. The 4th episode was absolute borefest. The 5th had some cool moments but 30 minutes of a city burning and people running here and there made it an absolute joke. Also, no matter what you say, the sudden turning of Dany into a mad woman made little sense. Hints that she will go crazy are not enough. Her mental state needed to slowly disintegrate for it to make sense. Overall a pretty average episode and season.
 
Madplayer said:
Give me what you are smoking. Concentrated and unrelenting? More like trying desperately hard to fit it all in 6 episodes. The 3rd episode was one of the most disappointing where the long night lasted half the episode. The 4th episode was absolute borefest. The 5th had some cool moments but 30 minutes of a city burning and people running here and there made it an absolute joke. Also, no matter what you say, the sudden turning of Dany into a mad woman made little sense. Hints that she will go crazy are not enough. Her mental state needed to slowly disintegrate for it to make sense. Overall a pretty average episode and season.
Click to expand...

I loved episode 4 - the best of the season so far IMO. Politics with the Starks, Tyrion and the Spider, then the heart-pounding moment with Tyrion and Cersei, then Missandei’s defiance before her awful end, prompting Dany’s fury....

I agree that it has been rushed but there is still so much to enjoy.
 
Here’s a thought.

Varys told his little bird that the greater the risk, the greater the gain.

The little bird will kill Dany.
 
Sansa is going to sit on the throne and will be the Queen in the North. It is becoming more and more evident now.
 
aliasad1998 said:
I want what some people on this thread are smoking. Maybe it’s just denial. This season has almost universally been called trash. Most people are calling this the worst GOT episode ever and I have to agree. This and the one before this
Click to expand...

I want to know what your smoking. Episode 5 was my favourite of the season so far.
 
I'm genuinely dismayed at the way this season has panned out. The issue is not the decisions themselves, but the nonsensical speed and rushing which makes it all come off so amateurish and poor.

Take Arya abandoning her revenge quest. This is arguably one of the most important moments for her entire character. She spent about 5 seasons training to be a lethal assassin to take revenge on all those who did wrong by the Starks. In earlier seasons her trip with The Hound to Kings Landing would've taken about three episodes minimum, there would've been countless moments of dialogue to build up to this moment, the Hound suggesting she leave, maybe berating her for following, Arya being stubborn etc, and it would've finally built up to the moment the Hound and her stood facing certain death, him turning around, saying this is what awaits her if she follows his path, her realising this, and them bidding farewell.

Instead, we go from Winterfell to Kings Landing in half an episode, there's no in between scenes, Arya is as resolved to kill Cersei as ever and.....

"Hey, you should really turn around now, its dangerous"
"K"
*Hound walks away*
"Thanks btw"

Its absolutely tragic. My favourite character, Jaime, finally realised 7 years of character development at the end of last season when he finally left Cersei, and rather than genuinely try and build up to a moment where he either a) realises he has to be the one to kill Cersei or b) realises he loves her the most and tries to save them both, battling his own inner issues, he goes from sleeiping with Brienne and fulfilling his arc to completely regressing to season 1 Jaime and dumping her for absolutely no reason in the sake of a single scene. Entire seasons of magnificent character moments between him and Brienne, flushed down the toilet in 60 seconds as the writers needed a contrived way to have him in KL so he died.

And Cersei, my god Cersei, a woman so god damn badass that even when she sees her own children poisoned before her eyes she remained fixated on revenge and strong, spends the entire damn episode crying like a little girl, totally out of character. This is a woman so damn strong she gladly blew up her entire city, bawling and crying. Atrocious. All she did all season was look angry and speak maybe 10 lines of dialogue. An absolute travesty. Then her and Jaime, arguably the two best characters in the show, killed by some damn bricks.

Euron's death is cringe. There is no reason whatsoever he wouldnt get the hell out of there rather than fight Jaime. Again, writers needed an excuse to kill him and mortally wound Jaime. And that final line is just laughable.

Varys, smartest man in the land, openly speaks of his betrayal to Tyrion, speaks to Jon in broad daylight in front of 50 people. They took a great character, had him act out of character, caught, and executed within the first five minutes of the episode. May as well have been off screen.

The biggest let down for me though isnt even this, its the whole charade of the battle itself.The Golden Company, after allllll that hype, are about 500 men standing outside killed in about 20 seconds. 1 dragon, wins the entire battle vs a thousand scorpions, after 1 scorption killed 1 from ten miles away with absolute ease, and took the biggest damn city in the realm. Baffling inconsistency.

And deanarys "turning", something that should have been the best moment of the entire show, and in line with the show and her character, is rushed to 1 scene where it makes absolutely no sense, where she's under no pressure, and faces no threat, because they need a new villain for the ending episode.

This season is a textbook example of what not to do. It is a travesty how they've wrecked it. I actually found up to this season the writing and stuff, while maybe not quite at its peak, was still excellent. That has well an truly gone out the window and I genuinely hope this gets redone when the books finish because its absolute garbage. Like watching The Walking Dead at its worst. Season 8 is how my short stories in secondary school went, great action, great entertainment, garbage writing, paper thin characters. To see this show reduced to this is genuinely heartbreaking. Spent a decade following along to a masterpiece only to see it crash and burn. Must be how Pakistan fans felt at Mohali :))

Ah I genuinely just want it to end now, dont even care. Better Call Saul will remain the number 1 show for me.
 
If your focus is on the action/entertainment I understand why you love this season. I get its entertaining, but what made GOT so special was it blended entertainment and writing seamlessly for ten years. Its been destroyed.If you enjoy action no issue, I see why you enjoy it, but if you enjoy the characters/writing also like me, this is irredeemable
 
James said:
The darker, more ruthless side of Dany’s character has been built up very well over the last few seasons. She is not a pure and honest hero of absolute integrity like Jon Snow - she is more on the ambivalent side. If she turns heel now, it is hardly a 180.
Click to expand...

I agree with this, but the moment was handled terribly and rushed. Had they had a couple episodes of her increasing isolation post Jorah's death, Varys betrayal is better laid out and not rushed, and she clearly battles within herself over what to do, culminating in a moment where the battle vs KL is on a knife edge, her soldiers are being pushed back, and she weighs up what to do, and then burns the place down, I'd have given it any amount of tens.

But nope, instead she's hissy Jon told Sansa, Varys dies in six seconds, the battle is over, she's won, Cersei defeated, but oh wait, we need a villain for the final. *engage insanity mode*

Ugh. So damn disappointed and deflated.
 
What a let down. The dragon flying around and destroying everything was just a cop out. I was hoping for a stand off in the throne room between Cersei and Dany or even Arya. Maybe even a combat by trial between the Hound and his brother. A bit of suspense,drama but no we had the mad Dany instead.
 
pak4life said:
What a let down. The dragon flying around and destroying everything was just a cop out. I was hoping for a stand off in the throne room between Cersei and Dany or even Arya. Maybe even a combat by trial between the Hound and his brother. A bit of suspense,drama but no we had the mad Dany instead.
Click to expand...

There is no time for all of this. lol

There is one episode left and I cant wait!
 
pak4life said:
What a let down. The dragon flying around and destroying everything was just a cop out. I was hoping for a stand off in the throne room between Cersei and Dany or even Arya. Maybe even a combat by trial between the Hound and his brother. A bit of suspense,drama but no we had the mad Dany instead.
Click to expand...
You will get your throne room drama this weekend... Arya will shut dany’s green eyes for good while she is on the throne...
 
Stewie said:
You will get your throne room drama this weekend... Arya will shut dany’s green eyes for good while she is on the throne...
Click to expand...

Are we sure Cersei is dead?

Arya must be furious with Dany after that atrocity attack.

Sansa also has green eyes....
 
Stewie said:
You will get your throne room drama this weekend... Arya will shut dany’s green eyes for good while she is on the throne...
Click to expand...

Arya has had one ultimate hero episode already, I can't see her taking out Danaerys as well. I hope not anyway. Dany was my favourite of all the contenders for the Iron Throne, I can accept she's no longer considered Queen material, but do not want to see her taken out by Arya who isn't worthy in my view. She looks like she should be scrubbing floors in a care home, not taking out the Mother of Dragons.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Arya has had one ultimate hero episode already, I can't see her taking out Danaerys as well. I hope not anyway. Dany was my favourite of all the contenders for the Iron Throne, I can accept she's no longer considered Queen material, but do not want to see her taken out by Arya who isn't worthy in my view. She looks like she should be scrubbing floors in a care home, not taking out the Mother of Dragons.
Click to expand...

Tell that to the showrunners! There are signs and setup for that eventuality littered all across the last few episodes. Did anybody else notice several extreme closeups of Dany over the last few episodes where the color of her eyes seem lighter than usual? The constant references to the green eyes by the red witch... a big chunk of episode 5 dedicated to Arya surviving and witnessing the KL Holocaust at the hands of the Mad Queen? Then the previews for the finale!

If that is all done to misguide you, they have gone way overboard.. but if they stay true to these not so subtle hints..... you know what’s coming!
 
Robert said:
Here’s a thought.

Varys told his little bird that the greater the risk, the greater the gain.

The little bird will kill Dany.
Click to expand...

Actually Varys was killed because he asked the little bird to poison Dany. Remember their conversation when she came to Varys and told him Dany isnt eating anything and he replied that they would try again later? Tyrion snitched on Varys because in the preceding scenes, Tyrion asked Varys what will happen to the queen. To which Varys give him a look which suggested that he would remove her by any means. Tyrion then went to Dany and told her everything.
 
Stewie said:
Tell that to the showrunners! There are signs and setup for that eventuality littered all across the last few episodes. Did anybody else notice several extreme closeups of Dany over the last few episodes where the color of her eyes seem lighter than usual? The constant references to the green eyes by the red witch... a big chunk of episode 5 dedicated to Arya surviving and witnessing the KL Holocaust at the hands of the Mad Queen? Then the previews for the finale!

If that is all done to misguide you, they have gone way overboard.. but if they stay true to these not so subtle hints..... you know what’s coming!
Click to expand...

The only thing that would make sense is Jon killing Dany in the end. Logical and fitting. Only he is worthy.
 
Don’t think it’s about who is worthy or not! Right now they are all victims of circumstance.. nobody is worthy of sitting on the throne or “killing” the mad queen. They are really all just opinions..
 
Speaking of Arya, she dedicated her years to avenge her family’s tragedies. She worked hard and survived through a lot of crap. She is definitely skilled and trained brutally for the role she is playing. I don’t understand what people mean by “worthy”... I don’t think even Jon is as skilled and trained as Arya is at carrying out assassinations.. so why would that be a surprise? Ideally yeah I wouldn’t want khaleesi dead.. but there is just no more doubt left that’s where it’s headed.. it’s just a question of how.. at this point it wouldn’t matter if she slips over a banana peel and impales herself on one of the sharp edges of the iron throne.. just my thoughts!
 
Madplayer said:
Actually Varys was killed because he asked the little bird to poison Dany. Remember their conversation when she came to Varys and told him Dany isnt eating anything and he replied that they would try again later? Tyrion snitched on Varys because in the preceding scenes, Tyrion asked Varys what will happen to the queen. To which Varys give him a look which suggested that he would remove her by any means. Tyrion then went to Dany and told her everything.
Click to expand...

Ah! Wonder if the little bird will get another chance?

Arya is about to kill Dany but Grey Worm runs her through. Jon tries to intervene with the Stark bannermen but Drogon burns them. The Unsullied have Jon at spear point. Tyrion begs for Jon’s life. Dany sits on the Iron Throne and before ordering Jon to be killed takes a sip of wine the little bird brings her....
 
Donal Cozzie said:
I agree with this, but the moment was handled terribly and rushed. Had they had a couple episodes of her increasing isolation post Jorah's death, Varys betrayal is better laid out and not rushed, and she clearly battles within herself over what to do, culminating in a moment where the battle vs KL is on a knife edge, her soldiers are being pushed back, and she weighs up what to do, and then burns the place down, I'd have given it any amount of tens.

But nope, instead she's hissy Jon told Sansa, Varys dies in six seconds, the battle is over, she's won, Cersei defeated, but oh wait, we need a villain for the final. *engage insanity mode*

Ugh. So damn disappointed and deflated.
Click to expand...

Lets be honest, at any point whenever the show runners decided to turn a fan favorite character heel, this would've been the reaction. People have been so invested in these characters for 7 seasons that anything controversial would mean a betrayal to the fan service.

Which is what the creators seemingly tried to avoid in season 7 and played in the favor of the main leads all the time. Which is why no one complained about any controversy since all the fan favorite characters were still in the picture.

If they televised the turn of dany for a while where will you get the shock value? Maybe Dany was turning heel in her mind the whole time you can't know about someone's mental state. Even if she appears normal doesn't mean she is.

Even in Season 7 the carnage that took place of the soldiers and the loot train attack. Do you think all the people she torched in that episode, were all of them soldiers? What about the people driving those carts, and the people taking the ration were they all soldiers? No she burnt them all. It hasn't been televised clearly but there have been signs.
 
Stewie said:
Speaking of Arya, she dedicated her years to avenge her family’s tragedies. She worked hard and survived through a lot of crap. She is definitely skilled and trained brutally for the role she is playing. I don’t understand what people mean by “worthy”... I don’t think even Jon is as skilled and trained as Arya is at carrying out assassinations.. so why would that be a surprise? Ideally yeah I wouldn’t want khaleesi dead.. but there is just no more doubt left that’s where it’s headed.. it’s just a question of how.. at this point it wouldn’t matter if she slips over a banana peel and impales herself on one of the sharp edges of the iron throne.. just my thoughts!
Click to expand...

When I say Arya's not worthy it's just a personal opinion. I liked her a lot up to the point where she snuffed out her tormentor in Bravos, that was a brilliant little run of episodes. But since then she's just taking over the show too much for me. Nothing would make me happier than to see Danaerys stick a surprise sword through her middle. No dragon for an unfair advantage.
 
Donal Cozzie said:
I agree with this, but the moment was handled terribly and rushed. Had they had a couple episodes of her increasing isolation post Jorah's death, Varys betrayal is better laid out and not rushed, and she clearly battles within herself over what to do, culminating in a moment where the battle vs KL is on a knife edge, her soldiers are being pushed back, and she weighs up what to do, and then burns the place down, I'd have given it any amount of tens.

But nope, instead she's hissy Jon told Sansa, Varys dies in six seconds, the battle is over, she's won, Cersei defeated, but oh wait, we need a villain for the final. *engage insanity mode*

Ugh. So damn disappointed and deflated.
Click to expand...

Completely agree, with your above post too. The madness has been used as a plot twist rather than a logical character development. The sole purpose was to mentally torture Dany fans like me. :))

You have also described character assassination of all the other major characters ; Jamie, Cersei, Arya , Tyrion etc very well!
 
Arya is a fantastic character in my opinion. There is so much that can still be done with her arc.

There is not much left for Jon Snow to achieve; Dany is doomed; Jaime & Cersei meanwhile both had plenty of narrative legs left, had they sailed off into the unknown as per Tyrion’s plan.....alas!

There will always be mini, petty, private, local conflicts to fight, and also to mediate - so Arya and/or Tyrion are the only characters who could justify a “Better Call Saul”-style follow-up series (albeit a sequel rather than a prequel).
 
waleed88 said:
Lets be honest, at any point whenever the show runners decided to turn a fan favorite character heel, this would've been the reaction. People have been so invested in these characters for 7 seasons that anything controversial would mean a betrayal to the fan service.

Which is what the creators seemingly tried to avoid in season 7 and played in the favor of the main leads all the time. Which is why no one complained about any controversy since all the fan favorite characters were still in the picture.

If they televised the turn of dany for a while where will you get the shock value? Maybe Dany was turning heel in her mind the whole time you can't know about someone's mental state. Even if she appears normal doesn't mean she is.

Even in Season 7 the carnage that took place of the soldiers and the loot train attack. Do you think all the people she torched in that episode, were all of them soldiers? What about the people driving those carts, and the people taking the ration were they all soldiers? No she burnt them all. It hasn't been televised clearly but there have been signs.
Click to expand...

Please dont make the mistake of assuming I'm criticising for the sake of it. I generally love "bad" endings in entertainment when done well, I love anti-hero esque characters and I love unexpected twists. I'm not some happy clappy person who wants to see the perfect ending where everyone lives happily ever after.

I agree with you there was some signs. But all of the people she ever killed were either slave owners, enemy combatants or people acting against her. She has said openly, as far back as last season in fact" "I'm here to rule the Seven Kingdoms, not ashes" or something along those lines.

I actually love the whole making her turn idea because its in line with her past, her family and the overall tone of the show, no leader/character is without evil, but its handled so terribly here come on. She goes from ideal ruler who loves the people to a genocidal maniac in the space of a ten second scene.

There's a difference between a well built up "shock", where subtle signs are there but enough doubt is left to the viewer, in terms of will she wont she, that makes it remain exceptionally exciting when or if it does happen.

That is totally lost when the season is rushed as badly as this, when she goes from deeply in love with Jon and the ideal queen to genocidal maniac who hates every living thing in the space of 5 episodes.

waqar goraya said:
Completely agree, with your above post too. The madness has been used as a plot twist rather than a logical character development. The sole purpose was to mentally torture Dany fans like me. :))

You have also described character assassination of all the other major characters ; Jamie, Cersei, Arya , Tyrion etc very well!
Click to expand...

Its just very deflating. On a pure entertainment level the show is as good as ever I think its worth stating that, but the magic behind it is totally gone. Its gone from being a Tarantino epic to some Marvel shlock.
 
Donal Cozzie said:
Please dont make the mistake of assuming I'm criticising for the sake of it. I generally love "bad" endings in entertainment when done well, I love anti-hero esque characters and I love unexpected twists. I'm not some happy clappy person who wants to see the perfect ending where everyone lives happily ever after.

I agree with you there was some signs. But all of the people she ever killed were either slave owners, enemy combatants or people acting against her. She has said openly, as far back as last season in fact" "I'm here to rule the Seven Kingdoms, not ashes" or something along those lines.

I actually love the whole making her turn idea because its in line with her past, her family and the overall tone of the show, no leader/character is without evil, but its handled so terribly here come on. She goes from ideal ruler who loves the people to a genocidal maniac in the space of a ten second scene.

There's a difference between a well built up "shock", where subtle signs are there but enough doubt is left to the viewer, in terms of will she wont she, that makes it remain exceptionally exciting when or if it does happen.

That is totally lost when the season is rushed as badly as this, when she goes from deeply in love with Jon and the ideal queen to genocidal maniac who hates every living thing in the space of 5 episodes.



Its just very deflating. On a pure entertainment level the show is as good as ever I think its worth stating that, but the magic behind it is totally gone. Its gone from being a Tarantino epic to some Marvel shlock.
Click to expand...

I agree with your sentiment. But tell me when you are attacking King's Landing? There wouldn't be any civilian casualties? I doubt there wouldn't be.

I think creators tried to emphasize this point very elaborately. Maybe Daenerys was just destroying roads in the way that she saw had lannister armies in them.

Maybe she didn't care about the civilian casualties and couldn't make that out from a distance.

We have always seen the carnage from a fire breathing dragon from their perspective mostly.

We forgot the human aspect, maybe there always has been innocent casualties when a dragon has been used we just got to see them now. I agree we as viewers never got that 'moral grey shade' they made her a completely black character. It could've been handled better, but I also feel is it really hard for a woman who is ****** off with dragons to kill innocent people? Maybe the death toll has been exaggerated but there is no doubt having a dragon is a dangerous weapon in the first place.
 
I think Daenerys has always been like this. We have been seeing as supporters of Daenerys to use a dragon to win a war... She has been showing restraint until now, she finally did and there have been a few thousand civilian casualties. I think she took that risk in order to completely wipe off the name of cersei and any rebellion that might happen. A clear victory.
 
We also forget that Daenerys as well as being a queen, is also a war general in a way. Or the airforce.

She takes the added stress of being in battle. She faces casualties that are her own children but she still risks her life and battle everytime. A mother taking her children and losing them to battle everytime would mean a sort of ruthlessness in her.

They said Cersei became more dangerous as her children died, what would a back against the wall daenerys do when 2 of her 3 children died, and there is a chance to lose a third one too?

Maybe this was her way to ensure a swift victory and no rebellion. When you face someone like Cersei, you better not leave anything to chance. She has been to conniving for her to leave anything to chance.
 
Last edited:
waleed88 said:
I agree with your sentiment. But tell me when you are attacking King's Landing? There wouldn't be any civilian casualties? I doubt there wouldn't be.

I think creators tried to emphasize this point very elaborately. Maybe Daenerys was just destroying roads in the way that she saw had lannister armies in them.

Maybe she didn't care about the civilian casualties and couldn't make that out from a distance.

We have always seen the carnage from a fire breathing dragon from their perspective mostly.

We forgot the human aspect, maybe there always has been innocent casualties when a dragon has been used we just got to see them now. I agree we as viewers never got that 'moral grey shade' they made her a completely black character. It could've been handled better, but I also feel is it really hard for a woman who is ****** off with dragons to kill innocent people? Maybe the death toll has been exaggerated but there is no doubt having a dragon is a dangerous weapon in the first place.
Click to expand...

The issue is she used it on people who were no longer enemies.

Slave Masters - enemies who she despised - crucified
Dothraki witch - killed her husband - burned
Black guy who's name I forgot - entombed alive
Unsullied owners - burned alive
Lannister food carts/army - burnt alive.
Tarley's who defied her authority - burnt alive

She is capable of cruelty of course. But only when it is either warranted or provoked. Obviously she has killed innocents before, but never intentionally and only when forced to use her dragons.

Here, all the Lannisters surrendered, threw down their weapons, bells were ringing. There were no longer enemies present, just innocent civilians and prisoners of war. The throne was hers, victory was hers, and she burnt every man woman and child alive.

The same person remember who, a couple seasons back, chained her dragons for weeks underground after they had burned a young farmers child, burning an entire city to death.

The writers literally said last season that she was not like her father, are now defending this. Its a hatchet job.
 
Donal Cozzie said:
The issue is she used it on people who were no longer enemies.

Slave Masters - enemies who she despised - crucified
Dothraki witch - killed her husband - burned
Black guy who's name I forgot - entombed alive
Unsullied owners - burned alive
Lannister food carts/army - burnt alive.
Tarley's who defied her authority - burnt alive

She is capable of cruelty of course. But only when it is either warranted or provoked. Obviously she has killed innocents before, but never intentionally and only when forced to use her dragons.

Here, all the Lannisters surrendered, threw down their weapons, bells were ringing. There were no longer enemies present, just innocent civilians and prisoners of war. The throne was hers, victory was hers, and she burnt every man woman and child alive.

The same person remember who, a couple seasons back, chained her dragons for weeks underground after they had burned a young farmers child, burning an entire city to death.

The writers literally said last season that she was not like her father, are now defending this. Its a hatchet job.
Click to expand...

She also realized it was a mistake to do that later on, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to shut the rebellion up. It was her weakness and mercy that made her tie down those dragons, but it led to her losing control over the city once the dragons were removed from the scene.

People of Mereen used that mercy against her. Slave masters used it against her. Also when you are battling Cersei, the smartest ruler in the 7 kingdoms, you have to make some compromises in order to defeat her. There are no easy victories.
Kings' landing has been sacked before as well. I guess you have to burn the foundations of one rule to start a new one.
 
Donal Cozzie said:
Please dont make the mistake of assuming I'm criticising for the sake of it. I generally love "bad" endings in entertainment when done well, I love anti-hero esque characters and I love unexpected twists. I'm not some happy clappy person who wants to see the perfect ending where everyone lives happily ever after.

I agree with you there was some signs. But all of the people she ever killed were either slave owners, enemy combatants or people acting against her. She has said openly, as far back as last season in fact" "I'm here to rule the Seven Kingdoms, not ashes" or something along those lines.

I actually love the whole making her turn idea because its in line with her past, her family and the overall tone of the show, no leader/character is without evil, but its handled so terribly here come on. She goes from ideal ruler who loves the people to a genocidal maniac in the space of a ten second scene.

There's a difference between a well built up "shock", where subtle signs are there but enough doubt is left to the viewer, in terms of will she wont she, that makes it remain exceptionally exciting when or if it does happen.

That is totally lost when the season is rushed as badly as this, when she goes from deeply in love with Jon and the ideal queen to genocidal maniac who hates every living thing in the space of 5 episodes.



Its just very deflating. On a pure entertainment level the show is as good as ever I think its worth stating that, but the magic behind it is totally gone. Its gone from being a Tarantino epic to some Marvel shlock.
Click to expand...

I actually don't find this season particularly entertaining. I agreed with your earlier post where you said that some people who are action fans are going to love it, and I get that. But for me personally, while I love action, a relentless barrage of bodies and crashing buildings makes me go numb. And let's be clear, the action has been spectacular from a visual POV, but I often don't like superhero movies which are too focused on CGI scenes of carnage.
 
Finale Episode -

Jon confront with Danny , in return Danny will blame jon for treason and sentence him to death, but Drogon wont obey her as he knw the jon is the only male targareyen left.
after that Arya will kill the Danny.
in the end, Jon will be the king, who knows nothing.

The End
 
Donal Cozzie said:
The issue is she used it on people who were no longer enemies.

Slave Masters - enemies who she despised - crucified
Dothraki witch - killed her husband - burned
Black guy who's name I forgot - entombed alive
Unsullied owners - burned alive
Lannister food carts/army - burnt alive.
Tarley's who defied her authority - burnt alive

She is capable of cruelty of course. But only when it is either warranted or provoked. Obviously she has killed innocents before, but never intentionally and only when forced to use her dragons.

Here, all the Lannisters surrendered, threw down their weapons, bells were ringing. There were no longer enemies present, just innocent civilians and prisoners of war. The throne was hers, victory was hers, and she burnt every man woman and child alive.

The same person remember who, a couple seasons back, chained her dragons for weeks underground after they had burned a young farmers child, burning an entire city to death.

The writers literally said last season that she was not like her father, are now defending this. Its a hatchet job.
Click to expand...

The ringing of bells scene assumes that she has lost her senses and has developed a neurotic condition. This is all very confusing. Is this a deliberate thought out massacre because she just feels alone and betrayed or the poor soul just lost her mind ? In the latter case, she is still my queen :))
 
Donal Cozzie said:
The issue is she used it on people who were no longer enemies.

Slave Masters - enemies who she despised - crucified
Dothraki witch - killed her husband - burned
Black guy who's name I forgot - entombed alive
Unsullied owners - burned alive
Lannister food carts/army - burnt alive.
Tarley's who defied her authority - burnt alive

She is capable of cruelty of course. But only when it is either warranted or provoked. Obviously she has killed innocents before, but never intentionally and only when forced to use her dragons.

Here, all the Lannisters surrendered, threw down their weapons, bells were ringing. There were no longer enemies present, just innocent civilians and prisoners of war. The throne was hers, victory was hers, and she burnt every man woman and child alive.

The same person remember who, a couple seasons back, chained her dragons for weeks underground after they had burned a young farmers child, burning an entire city to death.

The writers literally said last season that she was not like her father, are now defending this. Its a hatchet job.
Click to expand...

That's true, Why in the world Danny killed(burned) entire city for no reason?? - War was over at the bells, Soldiers surrendered, what did Civilians do to deserved 30 mins of burning massacre?? - I also don't get, what was entertaining about it.

That was my main gripe with the Episode, all the Character development of Danny for 7 seasons was thrown into Garbage in 5 mins, this is intellectual dishonesty, writes D&D are answerable to their own script for last 8 season, you cannot flip like that...All I hear thus far, this is done in the name of surprise, which is **, it has nothing to do with surprise, it only reflects poorly on them... Last two season were terrible, ending is epic failure by D&D and Co :facepalm:
 
The shock element has been over used here. In the initial seasons it was accompanied by a very strong character development and excellent dialogues. Without these things the shock element has become redundant.
 
Just watched the entire episode again and I have to say I enjoyed it even more then the first time...

It really was superb.
 
Robert said:
I saw Dinklage acting out of his skin, as Tyrion dropped his ego in a desperate final attempt to appeal to his sister to avoid disaster. It was simple and beautiful and I nearly cried.
Click to expand...

Always knew you were a big softie :23:

@Donnal Cozzie , superb post in this thread, summed it up perfectly. POTW.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
I actually don't find this season particularly entertaining. I agreed with your earlier post where you said that some people who are action fans are going to love it, and I get that. But for me personally, while I love action, a relentless barrage of bodies and crashing buildings makes me go numb. And let's be clear, the action has been spectacular from a visual POV, but I often don't like superhero movies which are too focused on CGI scenes of carnage.
Click to expand...

I'm in the exact same boat as you. Personally if I hadnt invested 7 years knowing this series I would've enjoyed this episode, but the fact I know the characters, the plotholes, shoddy writing etc meant I spent most of the time shaking my head.

The Arya escape scene, while doing a fantastic job showing the devastation of Drogon, went on way too long imo. We all knew she was going to survive, after five minutes of death we also knew what the dragon was doing,the sheer scale of its power etc, yet on and on and on it went, near miss after near miss.....

Then dumb white horse outta nowhere. Thats totally not an overdone metaphor.

Honestly I just cant believe above anythingthe Golden Company were that useless. Built up as a gamechanger for the fight - 500 lads completely defenceless vs a generic cavalry charge.

Think I'm done complaining, lots of people enjoyed it and thats totally fine, dont want to drag on them. Really hope the last episode may undo some of the damage. If Sansa doesnt have a huge role considering her scheming/plotting and her Littlefinger training I'd be disappointed.

Of course given how this season has gone I'm totally expecting the generic/obvious Jon kills Daenarys/Greyworm and becomes King, Sansa in the North in charge, all live happily ever after.
 
KingKhanWC said:
Always knew you were a big softie :23:

@Donnal Cozzie , superb post in this thread, summed it up perfectly. POTW.
Click to expand...

I agree with Robert though.


3 things in the overall trainwreck were done well I though.

Cleganebowl was great, and a fitting end for both.
That Jaime/Tyrion scene was fantastic truly. Highlight of the episode.
Jon stunned as he realises what Daenarys has done was a great moment too.

Some slivers of gold in a pile of mud.
 
Donal Cozzie said:
I agree with Robert though.


3 things in the overall trainwreck were done well I though.

Cleganebowl was great, and a fitting end for both.
That Jaime/Tyrion scene was fantastic truly. Highlight of the episode.
Jon stunned as he realises what Daenarys has done was a great moment too.

Some slivers of gold in a pile of mud.
Click to expand...

The mountain vs the hound was a great battle. Like Robert I also had a tear in my eye when the mountain fell to his death. :((

Luckily some nice person has made a compliation of his kills, which I will watch over and over until he returns in a spin off, easily the best character in GOT, Jon Snow is a boy compared to him.

Here for anyone who wants a butchers, no pun intended :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbhIJ-nP9iY
 
I liked the last 2 episodes, but the problem with season 8 is that everything has been rushed. It would have been better if it was 10 episodes. They could have had episode 4 and 5 showing the march to Kings Landing from the North which would have given time to have shown Yara retaking the Iron Islands, built up the Golden Company, showed more of Lord Varys conspiring against Dani, showing more of Cersi. Episode 4 & 5 could have been episode 6 & 7, and then the last 3 episodes could have shown what happens after Dani took Kings Landing.
 
Daenerys : My brother used to say the only thing Dothraki knew how to do was steal things better men have built.

Ser Jorah : It's not the only thing. They are quite good at killing the better men.

Daenerys : That's not the kind of queen I'm going to be.
 
waqar goraya said:
Daenerys : My brother used to say the only thing Dothraki knew how to do was steal things better men have built.

Ser Jorah : It's not the only thing. They are quite good at killing the better men.

Daenerys : That's not the kind of queen I'm going to be.
Click to expand...

None of the people at KL were better men.. maybe they were innocent but not better..
 
Gharib Aadmi said:
I liked the last 2 episodes, but the problem with season 8 is that everything has been rushed. It would have been better if it was 10 episodes. They could have had episode 4 and 5 showing the march to Kings Landing from the North which would have given time to have shown Yara retaking the Iron Islands, built up the Golden Company, showed more of Lord Varys conspiring against Dani, showing more of Cersi. Episode 4 & 5 could have been episode 6 & 7, and then the last 3 episodes could have shown what happens after Dani took Kings Landing.
Click to expand...

Concur.
 
Gharib Aadmi said:
I liked the last 2 episodes, but the problem with season 8 is that everything has been rushed. It would have been better if it was 10 episodes. They could have had episode 4 and 5 showing the march to Kings Landing from the North which would have given time to have shown Yara retaking the Iron Islands, built up the Golden Company, showed more of Lord Varys conspiring against Dani, showing more of Cersi. Episode 4 & 5 could have been episode 6 & 7, and then the last 3 episodes could have shown what happens after Dani took Kings Landing.
Click to expand...

Definitely this. I thought I would watch the whole series again as it is available while the new season is running, and the pace of the previous seasons, especially the first four or five is markedly different. It was noticeable even in the last couple of series that since the tv show moved ahead of the books, a bit of the depth had gone missing, but they did a great job of improvising so there weren't too many complaints. I just think the human interraction between all the action has been sacrificed to cram all the action in, and that has reduced one of the most endearing qualities of the show for me. Cersei, one of the most powerful characters of the show spent 90 mins looking out of a window before apparently dying in one of several heaps of rubble.
 
Gharib Aadmi said:
I liked the last 2 episodes, but the problem with season 8 is that everything has been rushed. It would have been better if it was 10 episodes. They could have had episode 4 and 5 showing the march to Kings Landing from the North which would have given time to have shown Yara retaking the Iron Islands, built up the Golden Company, showed more of Lord Varys conspiring against Dani, showing more of Cersi. Episode 4 & 5 could have been episode 6 & 7, and then the last 3 episodes could have shown what happens after Dani took Kings Landing.
Click to expand...

Agree, that’s my only qualm with it p much. Funnily enough HBO publically told D&D that they’re willing to give them as many resources necessary to keep the show going and leading up to the finale even if they wanted to do an additional season 9 with 3-4 episodes to conclude. That was the original plan too, splitting season 8 and 9, former for the build up and 9 for the finish with epic battles. Would’ve preferred it that way.

Hats off to Emilia’s acting as well.
 
After being rather hit & miss for many years, Emilia has finally become a very good actress, and her work is one of the pluses to take away from this series.
 
Weiss and Benioff look like in a rush to move on to other projects.. I think they have quite a few lines up
 
waqar goraya said:
Daenerys : My brother used to say the only thing Dothraki knew how to do was steal things better men have built.

Ser Jorah : It's not the only thing. They are quite good at killing the better men.

Daenerys : That's not the kind of queen I'm going to be.
Click to expand...

And Ser Jorah is dead. The person who appealed to Daenery's better senses.
 
Stewie said:
Going back to what the red witch said, Arya still have to shut a pair of green eyes and there is only one person left in the show with green eyes. So I am changing my opinion. I think it will be Arya and not Jon to take dany out..
Click to expand...

She already shut green eyes.Littlefinger
 
Emilia Clarke has great facial expressions and body language but her dialogue delivery is still pretty average.
She has nailed it on occasions like Viserion and Missendai's deaths and also during ringing of bells.
 
Stewie said:
Weiss and Benioff look like in a rush to move on to other projects.. I think they have quite a few lines up
Click to expand...

Another reason could be that after the book material ended they realized they they could not go far without books and decided to bring it to a swift closure.
Maybe to preserve quality of initial seasons they decided to cut short the show but in the end it is the quality which has suffered because of rushing of things.
 
shaz619 said:
[MENTION=95766]leatherface58[/MENTION] Share your views wasn't that bad at all but the issue folk have with the double turn is the arc for each character prior to this and all the fickle dweebs wanted to see Dani as the all conquering face so you can understand their disgust. The writers probably wanted to keep things a little unpredictable and also this is the best way probably to clear the path for snow to take his place on the throne even though he doesn't want it.
Click to expand...

I think pro wrestling helps me in that I don't take these things too seriously lol. But I found it to be pretty good. I felt people hated Dani for being a Roman Reigns-type babyface and even these writers turned her but Vince never will haha. Not a big fan of the Cersei-Jaime arc and the night king getting jobbed out but I am not that worked up about the show.
 
We appear to be entering a phase of “post-criticism”, where the Internet has facilitated a mass entryism of leak-thirsty plot-theorising anoraks with impossibly high standards, who have gained a louder voice than either experienced film critics or everyday audiences, and whose primary measure of quality seems to be how closely their bespoke personalised YouTube vision has been adhered to.

Off the top of my head, I can think of four franchises which have had their reputations and futures close to ruined by a fanbase gone postal: Ghostbusters, The Dark Tower, Star Wars, and now Game of Thrones. There will be more I’m sure.
 
Back when everyone else called Tyrion a monster in season 4 and a kingslayer for not committing a murder, these were the exact words used by Tyrion in his anguish.

TYRION : 'I saved you. I saved this city and all your worthless lives. I should have let Stannis kill you all'

Tyrion turns to face Tywin.

TYRION: Yes, father. I'm guilty. Guilty. Is that what you want to hear?

TYWIN: You admit you poisoned the King?

TYRION: No, of that I'm innocent. I am guilty of a far more monstrous crime. I am guilty of being a dwarf.

TYWIN: You are not on trial for being a dwarf.

TYRION: Oh, yes I am. I've been on trial for that my entire life.

TYWIN: Have you nothing to say in your defense?

TYRION: Nothing but this: I did not do it.

"I did not kill Joffrey but I wish that I had. Watching your vicious ******* die gave me more relief than a thousand lying whores.

TYRION: I wish I was the monster you think I am. I wish I had enough poison for the whole pack of you. I would gladly give my life to watch you all swallow it.


Is it surprising to think they thought Daenerys as a monster just like her father, and the people pushed her to a limit for her to do something like she did? The difference between Daenerys and Tyrion is that Tyrion didn't have 3 dragons to wipe the city out in a situation where he had his back against the wall.
 
Been following GOT since they announced it in '10. Haven't read the entire thread to know how people are feeling about the last season, but my 2 cents:

1) Agree with folks that are mentioning poor dialogue. Right now, I am terribly missing medieval dialogue done in Spartacus.
2) CGI fest - But I can bite the bullet on that one. Not too sensitive about Jon not showing physical/touchy love to ghost due to "lack of budget"
3) Really annoyed with HBO's attitude towards the end of this show. Lot of bad decisions imo
4) Assuming GRRM will have the same story plot ending, he will be explaining in a lot more detail why danny is "mad". But I cant say this is a surprise.
5) Last episode did not do justice with the burning scenes. Did not get the feeling from Danny at all

This to date remains my favorite show (apart from the leftovers, breaking bad). I will be picking up the book when it comes out to get my satisfaction, as the last season is pure injustice to the show. I blame hbo way more than D&D for the current state of affairs. And thats the reason I will NEVER pick up their GOT spin-offs.
 
waleed88 said:
Back when everyone else called Tyrion a monster in season 4 and a kingslayer for not committing a murder, these were the exact words used by Tyrion in his anguish.

TYRION : 'I saved you. I saved this city and all your worthless lives. I should have let Stannis kill you all'

Tyrion turns to face Tywin.

TYRION: Yes, father. I'm guilty. Guilty. Is that what you want to hear?

TYWIN: You admit you poisoned the King?

TYRION: No, of that I'm innocent. I am guilty of a far more monstrous crime. I am guilty of being a dwarf.

TYWIN: You are not on trial for being a dwarf.

TYRION: Oh, yes I am. I've been on trial for that my entire life.

TYWIN: Have you nothing to say in your defense?

TYRION: Nothing but this: I did not do it.

"I did not kill Joffrey but I wish that I had. Watching your vicious ******* die gave me more relief than a thousand lying whores.

TYRION: I wish I was the monster you think I am. I wish I had enough poison for the whole pack of you. I would gladly give my life to watch you all swallow it.


Is it surprising to think they thought Daenerys as a monster just like her father, and the people pushed her to a limit for her to do something like she did? The difference between Daenerys and Tyrion is that Tyrion didn't have 3 dragons to wipe the city out in a situation where he had his back against the wall.
Click to expand...

Good point well made.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Definitely this. I thought I would watch the whole series again as it is available while the new season is running, and the pace of the previous seasons, especially the first four or five is markedly different. It was noticeable even in the last couple of series that since the tv show moved ahead of the books, a bit of the depth had gone missing, but they did a great job of improvising so there weren't too many complaints. I just think the human interraction between all the action has been sacrificed to cram all the action in, and that has reduced one of the most endearing qualities of the show for me. Cersei, one of the most powerful characters of the show spent 90 mins looking out of a window before apparently dying in one of several heaps of rubble.
Click to expand...


She was rendered powerless by Dany’s living atomic bomb. Her scenes were about how she deals with this.
 
Robert said:
She was rendered powerless by Dany’s living atomic bomb. Her scenes were about how she deals with this.
Click to expand...

I did get that, just seemed to me that Cersei has fought tooth and nail for everything in the series so far, used every trick in the book and been spitting fire at her rivals all the way. Just seemed strange to see her watching mute and helpless without even finding someone to scream at to vent. I can understand she was probably just overwhelmed, just would have preferred her to go down with a bit more of a fight.
 
Robert said:
Good point well made.
Click to expand...

But in the end he did not and in fact as hand of the Queen he has been most vocal against lethal use of power, indiscriminately. This is not a good point.

We say many things in anger. Even, I have thought about killing 2 or 3, including myself. All those people are safe though.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
I did get that, just seemed to me that Cersei has fought tooth and nail for everything in the series so far, used every trick in the book and been spitting fire at her rivals all the way. Just seemed strange to see her watching mute and helpless without even finding someone to scream at to vent. I can understand she was probably just overwhelmed, just would have preferred her to go down with a bit more of a fight.
Click to expand...

The thing is that writers' main focus is only to surprise audiences.
 
Nearly a million people have signed the petition to redo the whole season. I’m loving the hate. Let it consume you
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top