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General Asim Munir promoted to rank of Field Marshal [Update@ Post#662]

Firstly doesn’t matter what is said on social media or what the populist sentiment is.

Just for your information, Indian regime (BJP or congress) had relatively better relations with Iran regime over the last few decades compared to Pakistan. Do your own research and get back to me on this if you want . Yes Pakistanis obviously hate Israel despite not being able to locate it on an map and Iran is a Muslim country so I can understand the sentimental support but only utility for Pakistan in this conflict is its geo-location. That’s about it.

Empowering the current Iran regime and making it stronger also in the long run may come back to bite Pakistan. I don’t want to get into that because it becomes more of a theological battle.

I would say instead of listening to “Indian propaganda” and even worse “Pakistani analysis” by experts who sound like they walked out of Lahore intentional diplomassi convention and lack total depth, use your own brains and logic and figure it out instead of the same stale rhetoric (if you have the capability)


I’m sorry but you and your country lost all credibility during the recent conflict, with our ridiculous Star Wars style claims. I would take a Lahore expert over a Bombay or Delhi idiot to be quite honest.
 
Firstly doesn’t matter what is said on social media or what the populist sentiment is.

Just for your information, Indian regime (BJP or congress) had relatively better relations with Iran regime over the last few decades compared to Pakistan. Do your own research and get back to me on this if you want . Yes Pakistanis obviously hate Israel despite not being able to locate it on an map and Iran is a Muslim country so I can understand the sentimental support but only utility for Pakistan in this conflict is its geo-location. That’s about it.

Empowering the current Iran regime and making it stronger also in the long run may come back to bite Pakistan. I don’t want to get into that because it becomes more of a theological battle.

I would say instead of listening to “Indian propaganda” and even worse “Pakistani analysis” by experts who sound like they walked out of Lahore intentional diplomassi convention and lack total depth, use your own brains and logic and figure it out instead of the same stale rhetoric (if you have the capability)

— Lekan bharati hamein batten gay what is our government thinking or doing, LOL!

no wonder their brains are all scrambled after watching their clown media 24/7
 
Muneer is a shameless simp for Trump.

He has no sense of patriotism or duty, just desperate for raw naked power. Gross.
This is how the world is right now. Netanyahoo, Trump, modi, Putin, Asim muneer, they are all different angles of the same picture and rather unfortunate they are running the show
 
Bewal why are you living in the UK the birth and creation of zion and israel.

Shouldn't you be moving to waziristan where ptis armed wing the the ttp is based
 
Bewal why are you living in the UK the birth and creation of zion and israel.

Shouldn't you be moving to waziristan where ptis armed wing the the ttp is based
I know you are scared to debate but you can tag me in properly.

This sort pathetic diversion doesn't work. I am not in charge of a Nuclear state that was made to look like a total chump by Trump. So once again what has he agreed to? Will Munir secretly give bases to the Americans? Will he give them routes for their special ops through Balochistan? Will he give their insurgents more wepons or Air space?
Munir will do anything to stay in power but PK cant afford it. As with the American invasion of Afghanistan, the Americans will eventually leave, Munir will die but PK will have to pick up the pieces.
Trump does not respect losers like Munir that are meek and weak. More and more, you see why the Foreign powers wanted IK out. They wanted these puppets installed
 
Munir is going to do a trade deal with usa

And one of the things on the card is the rare earth minerals.

You see trump respects power and they have to respect power because india got whipped hard by pakistan because they wanted to do what they are doing to iran to pakistan via india through operation sandhoor but it all backfired after the chitrol of the indians and the usa eventually realising indians are of no military use anymore because they can't win against a crippled bankrupt pakistan and forget about them being a containment against China who in war would roll these indians over in no time
 
Munir is going to do a trade deal with usa

And one of the things on the card is the rare earth minerals.

You see trump respects power and they have to respect power because india got whipped hard by pakistan because they wanted to do what they are doing to iran to pakistan via india through operation sandhoor but it all backfired after the chitrol of the indians and the usa eventually realising indians are of no military use anymore because they can't win against a crippled bankrupt pakistan and forget about them being a containment against China who in war would roll these indians over in no time
Negative!

Asim Munir doesn't need to go to US for a Trade deal.

The only possible leverage is to provide bases to US against Afghanistan and China and ensuring that Pakistan Army provides protection to US bases.

I have no evidence for either the trade deal or bases but it is unlikely that it was about trade deal because it is trivial.
 
People are too pessimistic.

I can guarantee it that no matter how strong or weak an army chief, and no matter what pressure is put on them by Americans, Pakistan will never take action to support Israel or allow America to support Israel via Pakistan.

Never

And we have a good relationship with Iran now too.

Yes Munir acted and is continuing to act improperly with PTI and Imran; however, his stance with regard to external threats has been spot on.
 
People are too pessimistic.

I can guarantee it that no matter how strong or weak an army chief, and no matter what pressure is put on them by Americans, Pakistan will never take action to support Israel or allow America to support Israel via Pakistan.

Never

And we have a good relationship with Iran now too.

Yes Munir acted and is continuing to act improperly with PTI and Imran; however, his stance with regard to external threats has been spot on.
Israel, yes due to public and backlash from within the Army.

America, No because of CIA infiltration at every level and Green Card (to generals).

I hope and pray that you are right but 70+ years of history is against your analysis on Pakistan military and America
 
Munir is going to do a trade deal with usa

And one of the things on the card is the rare earth minerals.

You see trump respects power and they have to respect power because india got whipped hard by pakistan because they wanted to do what they are doing to iran to pakistan via india through operation sandhoor but it all backfired after the chitrol of the indians and the usa eventually realising indians are of no military use anymore because they can't win against a crippled bankrupt pakistan and forget about them being a containment against China who in war would roll these indians over in no time
They want our rare earth minerals for free by using the establishment as fronts and offering commissions. IK fought to rescind the Reko Diq after the establishment messed up and cost PK billions in fines. And as soon as he had done the hard yards he was illegally overthrown and then the establishment sold (or attempted to) the mines to Saudi for a pittance. Establishment aren't loyal to PK, they are loyal to their own familes and their bank accounts.
@mazkhan what happened to the $100bn Munir brought into PK through his SIFC
 
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Israel, yes due to public and backlash from within the Army.

America, No because of CIA infiltration at every level and Green Card (to generals).

I hope and pray that you are right but 70+ years of history is against your analysis on Pakistan military and America
Brother within that 70 years there is also support to anti American movements in Afghanistan, total support towards China.

Trump is different to other US presidents. He won't play the game of pretending to talk to the PM while knowing the army chief is in power. He doesn't do the political niceties and BS protocols. He just cut out the middle man and went straight to the decision maker.

This visit of course involved discussion about Iran but it also served as a slap to India, it is mainly positive.
 

Haqqani is very well connected in the Pentagon, CIA, State Department, Centcom. He knows the game too well. PTI and Pakistani American's are too shareef and wasted so much time, money on lobbying with small actors (who themselves knew they had very little influence to help them but they were smart enough to us PTI and Pakistani American's for votes, money selling them what they wanted to hear). Let's not forget the Pakistani Army's and Sharif's influence in the UK, Middle East especially Saudi Arabia, UAE and their influence in China. PPP too knows how to lobby, network in the US with the right people.

Also i didn't see PTI or the Pakistani overseas population do any sort of big time lobbying in UK, EU, Middle East, China. America alone does not make decisions when it comes to Pakistan, it consults Saudi Arabia in particular.

The biggest mistake PTI and Pakistani American's did was to be very vocal and public with their lobbying efforts whereas the Pakistani Establishment, Sharif's, Bhuttos, Zardari's keep their mouth shut and do their jobs silently without revealing their cards.

Sadly a bit of king making is required when it comes to politics and PTI's support base does not have it yet. It will take them a good 30-40 years perhaps to learn these realities.
 
Yes it's the PTI in America's fault that the Americans prefer criminals as PK leaders. The reality is that the Generals can offer too much to the Americans that no one else can offer. The PK vote wouldn't have made any difference when the margins of Trumps victory were so big

That's the problem, its very telling where the US congressmen, senators and President feels they can get away with pissing on the sentiments of the Pakistani American supporters. They would not have dared do this to the Indian lobby or American Jews who have the institutional, numerical and financial muscle to inflict various forms of damage at the ballot.
 
They want our rare earth minerals for free by using the establishment as fronts and offering commissions. IK fought to rescind the Reko Diq after the establishment messed up and cost PK billions in fines. And as soon as he had done the hard yards he was illegally overthrown and then the establishment sold (or attempted to) the mines to Saudi for a pittance. Establishment aren't loyal to PK, they are loyal to their own familes and their bank accounts.
@mazkhan what happened to the $100bn Munir brought into PK through his SIFC
Haqqani is very well connected in the Pentagon, CIA, State Department, Centcom. He knows the game too well. PTI and Pakistani American's are too shareef and wasted so much time, money on lobbying with small actors (who themselves knew they had very little influence to help them but they were smart enough to us PTI and Pakistani American's for votes, money selling them what they wanted to hear). Let's not forget the Pakistani Army's and Sharif's influence in the UK, Middle East especially Saudi Arabia, UAE and their influence in China. PPP too knows how to lobby, network in the US with the right people.

Also i didn't see PTI or the Pakistani overseas population do any sort of big time lobbying in UK, EU, Middle East, China. America alone does not make decisions when it comes to Pakistan, it consults Saudi Arabia in particular.

The biggest mistake PTI and Pakistani American's did was to be very vocal and public with their lobbying efforts whereas the Pakistani Establishment, Sharif's, Bhuttos, Zardari's keep their mouth shut and do their jobs silently without revealing their cards.

Sadly a bit of king making is required when it comes to politics and PTI's support base does not have it yet. It will take them a good 30-40 years perhaps to learn these realities.
Brother within that 70 years there is also support to anti American movements in Afghanistan, total support towards China.

Trump is different to other US presidents. He won't play the game of pretending to talk to the PM while knowing the army chief is in power. He doesn't do the political niceties and BS protocols. He just cut out the middle man and went straight to the decision maker.

This visit of course involved discussion about Iran but it also served as a slap to India, it is mainly positive.

The CIA always finds it better to deal with Military dictator then civilian Governments e.g. Indonesia, Turkiye, Egypt, Iran, Pakistan, countries in the America etc

Pakistani military is rotten and corrupt to the core and easily buckle to either enticement or enforcement. The mighty Musharaaf folded like a paper tiger and the country paid for it with 80,000+ dead and still lifting coffin. The mighty military disowned their own "Taliban" and not only disowned them wrote books that they never owned them! :)
 
Guys you're being silly. He had heard of our great Field Marshall and thought he'd just had to invite him for a personal lunch. The US President has nothing else to do, not like he's busy. I even heard he wanted Munir's autograph! Can you believe it?

I can't believe people here think the US, especially Trump, would ever invite our Field Marshall to put pressure on him or get favours in the current war. The US has never done this, it is not known for this duplitious behavior nor has Trump ever done this.

Why can't everyone accept our Field Marshall is the greatest general since Napeloan in the last 2 hundred years? Damn deluded Youthias.
 
You are over severly estimating Pakistan's abilities here. If anything he promised not to allow help to get through to Iran. US doesn't need Pakistani bases, nor do they want to place their assets at fixed land based targets with Iran's proven ability to penetrate the US and Israeli missile defences. They can launch attacks from their carriers and keep moving.

The two week window is also to get the carriers in place.
 
when is he due for retirement?
He will serve until 2027 at the very least, but I hope he stays as long as his health allows because after a very long time, Pakistan have had a daring general like him at the helm who doesn’t allow anyone to mess with Pakistan and is a true patriot who protects national interests.
 
Trump respects power. He is witness to Pakistan humiliating India and exposing its self-created image of an emerging superpower. No wonder Indian media is burning like hot coal.
 
As far as PTI supporters are concerned, this is a kick in the gut for them as well.

They thought Trump respects Imran Khan and would put pressure on the Pakistan government to release him, but it is clear that he couldn’t care less about him and has joined hands with the person who destroyed Imran.

Imran has become a completely irrelevant, forgotten figure.
 
Guys you're being silly. He had heard of our great Field Marshall and thought he'd just had to invite him for a personal lunch. The US President has nothing else to do, not like he's busy. I even heard he wanted Munir's autograph! Can you believe it?

I can't believe people here think the US, especially Trump, would ever invite our Field Marshall to put pressure on him or get favours in the current war. The US has never done this, it is not known for this duplitious behavior nor has Trump ever done this.

Why can't everyone accept our Field Marshall is the greatest general since Napeloan in the last 2 hundred years? Damn deluded Youthias.
It is normal for country's to invite people and push for their agenda.

However the assumption by many is that Munir simply rolled over and there have been many fantasies concocted and peddled when in reality nobody knows the truth of the meeting. Those that are against the military are just making up stories and patting themselves on the back.
 
Trump respects power. He is witness to Pakistan humiliating India and exposing its self-created image of an emerging superpower. No wonder Indian media is burning like hot coal.

Common consensus is the hits to Nur Khan base rubbed Trump the wrong way. Until then, the US maintained distance from this conflict.
 
That's the problem, its very telling where the US congressmen, senators and President feels they can get away with pissing on the sentiments of the Pakistani American supporters. They would not have dared do this to the Indian lobby or American Jews who have the institutional, numerical and financial muscle to inflict various forms of damage at the ballot.
Its about the $$$$$. You show the wonga, you get heard
 
As far as PTI supporters are concerned, this is a kick in the gut for them as well.

They thought Trump respects Imran Khan and would put pressure on the Pakistan government to release him, but it is clear that he couldn’t care less about him and has joined hands with the person who destroyed Imran.

Imran has become a completely irrelevant, forgotten figure.
American Government or Trump (or Biden/Harris) were never going to put pressure on Pakistani military to release Imran Khan, that's a folly of PTI (in Pakistan and overseas). CIA & Pentagon will have a big say in US Foreign policy and Pakistani military are always the useful idiots.

What would have affected US Foreign Policy (based on CIA input) would have been massive public protests and uprising against the military and it never happened inside Pakistan. John Mersheimer has spoken about it and CIA are wary and burnt from what happened in Iran so they were terrified of events repeating in Pakistan against their stooges (Pakistani military).

PTI was never able to convert feelings and sentiments into massive public civil disobedience. The Pakistani military was weak (and it played its hands well) gained time and slowly and surely it tightened its grip on the levers of Pakistan hand in hand with crooks (like Sharif, Zardari etc) and now it has tight control.

Putting Imran Khan in prison and cutting him off from leadership was a Israeli style masterstroke by the Generals, they cut Imran Khan off and then picked off others one by one through bribe, coercion, torture or whatever and there is nobody left!

It is now extremely difficult but not impossible to rise against Military dictatorship and PTI keeps shooting itself in the foot. The people of Pakistan kept on coming and kept on responding but PTI kept sabotaging its own protests (delays, cancellation etc), the last time when Pakistani military shot citizens in cold blood (in Islamabad) was the closest Pakistani citizens came to changing the destiny of their country.

However, PTI and Imran Khan are/were probably the last chance Allah Ta'ala for course correction peacefully and to change the trajectory of the country, the feelings of people have not changed and now it will take blood.

The common people of Pakistan are sick of their country, all its systems (military included), the nepotism, the corruption, the lack of merit not only continuing but getting worse. The entire elections were stolen from people and there will come a time when the Generals will be hanging on lampposts! A large number of skilled Pakistanees have already left or want to leave (and doing it everyday) its an alarming rate of human capital flight from Pakistan.

The generals tried the same script and same tactics with Sheikh Mujibur Rahman and lost half of the country by suppressing Imran Khan & PTI they have jeopardized the future of Pakistan.
  1. No amount of PL-15 or J10C can hide structural issues with Pakistan
  2. No amount of meetings with Trump can hide that every single meaningful metric is trending in the opposite direction
  3. No amount of (Government) TikTok can hide that most skilled Pakistanees are desperate to leave!
When you don't allow people to peacefully have their way, they will impose their will on you with blood.
 
American Government or Trump (or Biden/Harris) were never going to put pressure on Pakistani military to release Imran Khan, that's a folly of PTI (in Pakistan and overseas). CIA & Pentagon will have a big say in US Foreign policy and Pakistani military are always the useful idiots.

What would have affected US Foreign Policy (based on CIA input) would have been massive public protests and uprising against the military and it never happened inside Pakistan. John Mersheimer has spoken about it and CIA are wary and burnt from what happened in Iran so they were terrified of events repeating in Pakistan against their stooges (Pakistani military).

PTI was never able to convert feelings and sentiments into massive public civil disobedience. The Pakistani military was weak (and it played its hands well) gained time and slowly and surely it tightened its grip on the levers of Pakistan hand in hand with crooks (like Sharif, Zardari etc) and now it has tight control.

Putting Imran Khan in prison and cutting him off from leadership was a Israeli style masterstroke by the Generals, they cut Imran Khan off and then picked off others one by one through bribe, coercion, torture or whatever and there is nobody left!

It is now extremely difficult but not impossible to rise against Military dictatorship and PTI keeps shooting itself in the foot. The people of Pakistan kept on coming and kept on responding but PTI kept sabotaging its own protests (delays, cancellation etc), the last time when Pakistani military shot citizens in cold blood (in Islamabad) was the closest Pakistani citizens came to changing the destiny of their country.

However, PTI and Imran Khan are/were probably the last chance Allah Ta'ala for course correction peacefully and to change the trajectory of the country, the feelings of people have not changed and now it will take blood.

The common people of Pakistan are sick of their country, all its systems (military included), the nepotism, the corruption, the lack of merit not only continuing but getting worse. The entire elections were stolen from people and there will come a time when the Generals will be hanging on lampposts! A large number of skilled Pakistanees have already left or want to leave (and doing it everyday) its an alarming rate of human capital flight from Pakistan.

The generals tried the same script and same tactics with Sheikh Mujibur Rahman and lost half of the country by suppressing Imran Khan & PTI they have jeopardized the future of Pakistan.
  1. No amount of PL-15 or J10C can hide structural issues with Pakistan
  2. No amount of meetings with Trump can hide that every single meaningful metric is trending in the opposite direction
  3. No amount of (Government) TikTok can hide that most skilled Pakistanees are desperate to leave!
When you don't allow people to peacefully have their way, they will impose their will on you with blood.

Tbh what has happened to PTI and IK is a classic cautionary tale of what happens when the fortunes of the entire party is strictly dependent on one person i.e. IK. And to be honest IK's own judgement is questionable with regards to his choices i.e. Usman Buzdar, Ali Amin Gandapur, Barrister Gohar and other previous turn coats like Asad Umar, Fawad Chaudhry. The reality is PTI the party is filled with parasites and they are no different from other parties. Also i have heard horror stories about corruption in KPK under Gandapur.

Wajahat Saeed Khan correctly advised in his vlog i.e. if PTI, PTI supporters and the Pakistani population does not have the stomach for a violent uprising Iran 1979 style against the status quo, then IK should accept these ground realities, strike a deal and compromise and live to fight another day, remain part of the system, re-organize the party, get some rest, come back refreshed, go about his charity endeavours and play the long game patiently.
 
What rare earth mineral does Pakistan have and whereabouts in Pakistan are they mined?

I know china has banned rare earth exports to USA, which is causing them some issues, but I'm sure there must be replacements out there where they can be sourced??
 
Tbh what has happened to PTI and IK is a classic cautionary tale of what happens when the fortunes of the entire party is strictly dependent on one person i.e. IK. And to be honest IK's own judgement is questionable with regards to his choices i.e. Usman Buzdar, Ali Amin Gandapur, Barrister Gohar and other previous turn coats like Asad Umar, Fawad Chaudhry. The reality is PTI the party is filled with parasites and they are no different from other parties. Also i have heard horror stories about corruption in KPK under Gandapur.

Wajahat Saeed Khan correctly advised in his vlog i.e. if PTI, PTI supporters and the Pakistani population does not have the stomach for a violent uprising Iran 1979 style against the status quo, then IK should accept these ground realities, strike a deal and compromise and live to fight another day, remain part of the system, re-organize the party, get some rest, come back refreshed, go about his charity endeavours and play the long game patiently.
Absolutely agreed.

I do have a question from everyone.

Imran Khan kept on denying NRO and kept on refusing to make a deal with robbers and corrupt politicians like Shareefs and Zardari, in yours and everyone else's opinion wouldn't the damage been less if he would have made the deal and let these corrupt pigs escape out of Pakistan for an NRO?

Where is Pakistan, now?

What has Imran Khan's ideological stance achieved for Pakistan? No doubt, history will judge Imran Khan as an honest, principled person but didn't Imran Khan knew about his companions? Also Imran Khan gave extension to Bajwa and paved the way to everything which is happening.

Isn't Imran Khan an extremely poor judge of character???

What rare earth mineral does Pakistan have and whereabouts in Pakistan are they mined?

I know china has banned rare earth exports to USA, which is causing them some issues, but I'm sure there must be replacements out there where they can be sourced??
Independent reported it back in April 2025

After Ukraine, Trump is now eyeing Pakistan’s rare minerals​

Pakistan sits on one of world’s largest copper and gold deposits and rich quantities of lithium​


After Ukraine, the US is looking at Pakistan in its continued hunt for rare minerals, Islamabad announced on Wednesday.

Pakistan has one of the world’s largest copper and gold deposits as well as rich quantities of lithium, a key component in batteries.


In return for past and future military and financial support in the war against Russia, the Donald Trump administration has been asking Ukraine for a deal that would give the US nearly half of the war-torn country’s revenues from critical minerals, oil and gas as well as stakes in key infrastructure like ports through a joint investment fund.

Now, American companies are looking at Pakistan for minerals. Their interest was conveyed to prime minister Shehbaz Sharif by Eric Meyer, senior official at the State Department Bureau of South and Central Asian Affairs, at a meeting in Islamabad, the government said in a statement.

This comes a day after Pakistan hosted a Minerals Investment Forum, an international summit aimed at attracting foreign investment in the country’s mining sector.

The summit saw participation from international companies such as Canada’s Barrick Gold as well as government officials from the US, including Mr Meyer, the UK, Saudi Arabia, China, Turkey, and Azerbaijan.

A prospector searches for gold in Kabul river in Khairabad area of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, Pakistan

A prospector searches for gold in Kabul river in Khairabad area of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province, Pakistan (AFP/Getty)
 
Tbh what has happened to PTI and IK is a classic cautionary tale of what happens when the fortunes of the entire party is strictly dependent on one person i.e. IK. And to be honest IK's own judgement is questionable with regards to his choices i.e. Usman Buzdar, Ali Amin Gandapur, Barrister Gohar and other previous turn coats like Asad Umar, Fawad Chaudhry. The reality is PTI the party is filled with parasites and they are no different from other parties. Also i have heard horror stories about corruption in KPK under Gandapur.

Wajahat Saeed Khan correctly advised in his vlog i.e. if PTI, PTI supporters and the Pakistani population does not have the stomach for a violent uprising Iran 1979 style against the status quo, then IK should accept these ground realities, strike a deal and compromise and live to fight another day, remain part of the system, re-organize the party, get some rest, come back refreshed, go about his charity endeavours and play the long game patiently.
A person without principles would do as you suggest but IK isn't your average person. I think he knows that he will die in prison, obviously we pray and hope that he isn't murdered like this but Kaptaan wont back down. Munir, Bajwa and the puppets have no ghairat or Imaan and have betrayed PK for personal gain.
 
A person without principles would do as you suggest but IK isn't your average person. I think he knows that he will die in prison, obviously we pray and hope that he isn't murdered like this but Kaptaan wont back down. Munir, Bajwa and the puppets have no ghairat or Imaan and have betrayed PK for personal gain.
My wife doesn't understand a word of Urdu, never been to Pakistan and has no clue about Pakistan or politics but says that Imran Khan is truthful and honest.

There are people (Arabs, Africans and all) Muslims and non-Muslims who admire Imran Khan and it is a tragedy that these generals have no value for a Diamond which Allah Ta'ala gifted Pakistan.

So forget Pakistan, Muslims around the world know and will testify that Imran Khan is an honest person.
 
My wife doesn't understand a word of Urdu, never been to Pakistan and has no clue about Pakistan or politics but says that Imran Khan is truthful and honest.

There are people (Arabs, Africans and all) Muslims and non-Muslims who admire Imran Khan and it is a tragedy that these generals have no value for a Diamond which Allah Ta'ala gifted Pakistan.

So forget Pakistan, Muslims around the world know and will testify that Imran Khan is an honest person.
For personal gain, a crooked, thuggish elite has sacrificed PK. Our constitution has gone, our rights have gone, there is no law and order, we have an establishment taking orders from America to help them attack our Muslim neighbour. His treatment will haunt PK for generations and none of those that betrayed PK by locking him up and destroying PK will ever be forgiven.
 
It’s all temporary, there’s no going back for the nation. They’ve been exposed to the realities of the old guard.

The hope now is the younger population having been witness to the blatant corruption of the last few years bring about gradual change otherwise Pakistan will always be a nation on life support.

My hope is with the geopolitical situation evolving into more dangerous and critical situations, there will be scope for change.
 
@Bewal Express is one of the few ghairatmand Pakistani posters. Despite my differences and arguments with him on many other topics i respect he can call a spade a spade at the way Pakistan's dictatorship is selling the nation to Americans going against Iran and Palestine in this moment.
 
Munir nominated Trump for the Noble peace prize because Trump allowed him to stay in power. This is the pathetic level of PK Generals and their desperation to stay in power. @Major is this also my fault?
 
USA will inevitably enter the war and Pakistan will be expected to cooperate. munir is being cornered into a tough position. Pakistan may not have great relations with Iran but Allying with US and Israel he will be inviting public wrath upon him. The entire shiite section of Pakistan will not forgive him for this.
 
USA will inevitably enter the war and Pakistan will be expected to cooperate. munir is being cornered into a tough position. Pakistan may not have great relations with Iran but Allying with US and Israel he will be inviting public wrath upon him. The entire shiite section of Pakistan will not forgive him for this.

Sources are claiming that Munir advised Trump not to engage in a conflict in Iran as it will be disasterous for both USA and Pakistan and the region. Munir in return has been tasked with using Pakistan's influence in Iran to make them negotiate and accept a few compromises ie no uranium enrichment in exchange for a stop to the war.
 
Sources are claiming that Munir advised Trump not to engage in a conflict in Iran as it will be disasterous for both USA and Pakistan and the region. Munir in return has been tasked with using Pakistan's influence in Iran to make them negotiate and accept a few compromises ie no uranium enrichment in exchange for a stop to the war.
Did he also say that Iran will nominate Trump for nobel peace prize after he nudges them?
 
Tbh what has happened to PTI and IK is a classic cautionary tale of what happens when the fortunes of the entire party is strictly dependent on one person i.e. IK. And to be honest IK's own judgement is questionable with regards to his choices i.e. Usman Buzdar, Ali Amin Gandapur, Barrister Gohar and other previous turn coats like Asad Umar, Fawad Chaudhry. The reality is PTI the party is filled with parasites and they are no different from other parties. Also i have heard horror stories about corruption in KPK under Gandapur.

Wajahat Saeed Khan correctly advised in his vlog i.e. if PTI, PTI supporters and the Pakistani population does not have the stomach for a violent uprising Iran 1979 style against the status quo, then IK should accept these ground realities, strike a deal and compromise and live to fight another day, remain part of the system, re-organize the party, get some rest, come back refreshed, go about his charity endeavours and play the long game patiently.
I listened to Wajahat's vlog and straight away I could see the holes in his plan. Release of IK suits establishment but they won't just release him without certain guarantees. General's demand two things from IK as per my understanding;

1. That he will remain quiet and won't talk against the current imported setup let alone organizing protests against them. (Bhutto was released on a similar condition but he backtracked after release).

2. Imran Khan will condemn those dissenters who criticize generals but generals can't reach them i.e Adil Raja, Imran Riaz, Shahbaz Gill, Barrister Shehzad, Dr Moeed Pirzada etc. Remember these people remained loyal to IK's cause at great personal cost.

If Imran Khan agrees to such a deal then he may as well call it quits and relocate to London. IK is bravely enduring jail cell at this stage of his life in 45 degree Celsius heat. That is because he knows that there is no other option. Throughout history of Pakistan, politicians faced similar circumstances that IK faced when he was imprisoned. From Bhutto, NS to Benazir, all of them took the easy way out and made deals with the establishment. IK poses a unique challenge to generals with his refusal. Consequences of this challenge are yet to be seen but if IK takes the deal, (which means he will have to accept this form 47 imported government, accept hegemony of generals and throwing his supporters under the bus) his legacy will be tarnished forever from which PTI will never recover.

What Wajahat and other proponents of 'deal' don't understand is this;

Possibilities:

1. Imran Khan refuses to make a deal:

a) May die in jail but dies as a hero.
b) Endures jail and say 10 years down the line, younger generation (which is overwhelmingly pro Imran Khan) changes social dynamic within military and society in general thus forcing release of Imran Khan. Mahatir Mohammad of Malaysia returned as PM in his 90s !

2. Makes a deal with the generals now:

a) Tarnishes his legacy forever, condemned and then forgotten in history.
b) Somehow manages to win back public confidence to an extent and accepts a subservient role to the army chief in setup.

I don't see how option 2 makes any logical sense either from his personal or Pakistan's pov.
 
I listened to Wajahat's vlog and straight away I could see the holes in his plan. Release of IK suits establishment but they won't just release him without certain guarantees. General's demand two things from IK as per my understanding;

1. That he will remain quiet and won't talk against the current imported setup let alone organizing protests against them. (Bhutto was released on a similar condition but he backtracked after release).

2. Imran Khan will condemn those dissenters who criticize generals but generals can't reach them i.e Adil Raja, Imran Riaz, Shahbaz Gill, Barrister Shehzad, Dr Moeed Pirzada etc. Remember these people remained loyal to IK's cause at great personal cost.

If Imran Khan agrees to such a deal then he may as well call it quits and relocate to London. IK is bravely enduring jail cell at this stage of his life in 45 degree Celsius heat. That is because he knows that there is no other option. Throughout history of Pakistan, politicians faced similar circumstances that IK faced when he was imprisoned. From Bhutto, NS to Benazir, all of them took the easy way out and made deals with the establishment. IK poses a unique challenge to generals with his refusal. Consequences of this challenge are yet to be seen but if IK takes the deal, (which means he will have to accept this form 47 imported government, accept hegemony of generals and throwing his supporters under the bus) his legacy will be tarnished forever from which PTI will never recover.

What Wajahat and other proponents of 'deal' don't understand is this;

Possibilities:

1. Imran Khan refuses to make a deal:

a) May die in jail but dies as a hero.
b) Endures jail and say 10 years down the line, younger generation (which is overwhelmingly pro Imran Khan) changes social dynamic within military and society in general thus forcing release of Imran Khan. Mahatir Mohammad of Malaysia returned as PM in his 90s !

2. Makes a deal with the generals now:

a) Tarnishes his legacy forever, condemned and then forgotten in history.
b) Somehow manages to win back public confidence to an extent and accepts a subservient role to the army chief in setup.

I don't see how option 2 makes any logical sense either from his personal or Pakistan's pov.
@Savak @Greenstorm

Even if Imran Khan wanted to make a deal which I am pretty sure that he doesn't, I can't see majority of sincere people of Pakistan allowing him to do it.

General Asim Munir meeting with Trump puts paid to any US political pressure and efforts

Imran Khan will be remembered a folk hero in Pakistani history.

Allah Ta'ala has some kind of plan for Pakistan, Insha'Allah.
 
Absolutely agreed.

I do have a question from everyone.

Imran Khan kept on denying NRO and kept on refusing to make a deal with robbers and corrupt politicians like Shareefs and Zardari, in yours and everyone else's opinion wouldn't the damage been less if he would have made the deal and let these corrupt pigs escape out of Pakistan for an NRO?
This is a question that I have thought about. Imran Khan, like majority Pakistanis including me, had the false impression that these corrupt ruling families were the cause of all ills in Pakistan. General impression was that yes these military higherups do some corruption here and there but the real evil lies with corrupt politicians. So IK allied himself with the military to go against these corrupt families. What most of us failed to realize was that our real battle was not against certain political ruling families but a nexus of corrupt elite that enjoys the benefits of prevalent extractive system. Generals, politicians, judges, bureaucrats, property and media tycoons etc are all one in their opposition to common Pakistanis represented by Imran Khan. Even the anti Imran Khan podcasters on youtube such as Eon, Shehzad Ghayas, Syed Muzzamil Shah etc belong to a certain affluent class.

Anyways, it was probably in 2019, when IK was pressured for Bajwa's extension, that he realized his faulty assessment. Could at that time he could have extended an olive branch to these corrupt families and join hands with them against Bajwa ? Could that even work ? How would public reacted to that ? These are difficult questions to answer. Imran Khan did allow NS to leave giving him time and opportunity to topple Imran Khan. Was that a wise decision to let him go ?

What he should have done straight after becoming PM in 2018 (what any civilian PM should do) was to start scouting for the next military chief. Should have made multiple visits to cantonments, developed personal relationships with Lt generals that are next in line and other corps commanders so that he was in a better position to resist Bajwa's extension in 2019. He should have read how Erdogan put a leash on Turkish generals.
Where is Pakistan, now?

What has Imran Khan's ideological stance achieved for Pakistan? No doubt, history will judge Imran Khan as an honest, principled person but didn't Imran Khan knew about his companions? Also Imran Khan gave extension to Bajwa and paved the way to everything which is happening.

Isn't Imran Khan an extremely poor judge of character???
IK has himself accepted that he can't judge character. He grew up in a semi elite circle of Pakistan, attended Atchison College and then went to Oxford in London. Lived rest of his life as a superstar. That life doesn't inculcate the kind of street smartness that is required to judge character. He is also driven by a sense of idealism that limits the ability to see people and situations in non deterministic manner.

This weakness of his has dealt a major setback to Pakistan. He could have been an Erdogan like figure but instead he is now rotting in jail and may end up as Mohammad Al Morsi of Egypt (hopefully not) while the Pakistani nation is leaderless and law of the jungle reigns supreme.
 
@Savak @Greenstorm

Even if Imran Khan wanted to make a deal which I am pretty sure that he doesn't, I can't see majority of sincere people of Pakistan allowing him to do it.

General Asim Munir meeting with Trump puts paid to any US political pressure and efforts

Imran Khan will be remembered a folk hero in Pakistani history.

Allah Ta'ala has some kind of plan for Pakistan, Insha'Allah.
I hope that's true. There seems to be no way out of this quagmire. May Allah help our nation.
 
This is a question that I have thought about. Imran Khan, like majority Pakistanis including me, had the false impression that these corrupt ruling families were the cause of all ills in Pakistan. General impression was that yes these military higherups do some corruption here and there but the real evil lies with corrupt politicians. So IK allied himself with the military to go against these corrupt families. What most of us failed to realize was that our real battle was not against certain political ruling families but a nexus of corrupt elite that enjoys the benefits of prevalent extractive system. Generals, politicians, judges, bureaucrats, property and media tycoons etc are all one in their opposition to common Pakistanis represented by Imran Khan. Even the anti Imran Khan podcasters on youtube such as Eon, Shehzad Ghayas, Syed Muzzamil Shah etc belong to a certain affluent class.

Anyways, it was probably in 2019, when IK was pressured for Bajwa's extension, that he realized his faulty assessment. Could at that time he could have extended an olive branch to these corrupt families and join hands with them against Bajwa ? Could that even work ? How would public reacted to that ? These are difficult questions to answer. Imran Khan did allow NS to leave giving him time and opportunity to topple Imran Khan. Was that a wise decision to let him go ?

What he should have done straight after becoming PM in 2018 (what any civilian PM should do) was to start scouting for the next military chief. Should have made multiple visits to cantonments, developed personal relationships with Lt generals that are next in line and other corps commanders so that he was in a better position to resist Bajwa's extension in 2019. He should have read how Erdogan put a leash on Turkish generals.

IK has himself accepted that he can't judge character. He grew up in a semi elite circle of Pakistan, attended Atchison College and then went to Oxford in London. Lived rest of his life as a superstar. That life doesn't inculcate the kind of street smartness that is required to judge character. He is also driven by a sense of idealism that limits the ability to see people and situations in non deterministic manner.

This weakness of his has dealt a major setback to Pakistan. He could have been an Erdogan like figure but instead he is now rotting in jail and may end up as Mohammad Al Morsi of Egypt (hopefully not) while the Pakistani nation is leaderless and law of the jungle reigns supreme.

Moeed Pirzada in his vlogs many times that IK naivety and to be honest lack of political leadership, beareacratic experience hurt him where as the likes of Nawaz Sharif, Shahbaz Sharif, Zardari have all benefited from the experience, wisdom they gained from their chief minister, ministerial, presidential roles before and understood the soft signals from the institutions.

The PM job was IKs first role in a leadership position when he had never served as a minister or chief minister before and he failed to understand the system, bureaucracies and the signals the system was sending

IK ignored many warning signs that the system establishment was switching sides and getting close to the opposition

- The courts and the army giving the green light for NS departure abroad

- The opposition at that time giving green light to Bajwas extension as well. Why would they do that if there was no understanding with Bajwa?

- The Election Commission repeated negative decisions against pti in favour of the opposition

- The media relentlessly going after the pti with full freedom with no repurcussions

- Bidens refusal to talk to IK in 2021 but Bilawal made a week long unexplained trip to the US

- Nawaz Sharif meeting with various high level people in London

For some reason IK was over confident that his position as PM was secure when he could have easily dissolved the assemblies before the no confidence motion was tabled but IK was over confident he could beat it.

The likes of Nawaz Sharif, Shahbaz Sharif, Maryam Nawaz, Asif Zardari, Bilawal Bhutto may not have maqbuliat, mandate but these guys are politically astute enough to identify signals from the system and the way things are heading and they are very good at preempting what the other side is doing.

PTI in comparison is a novice, full of talk no action parasitic party totally dependent and living of the founder party.
 
People are too pessimistic.

I can guarantee it that no matter how strong or weak an army chief, and no matter what pressure is put on them by Americans, Pakistan will never take action to support Israel or allow America to support Israel via Pakistan.

Never

And we have a good relationship with Iran now too.

Yes Munir acted and is continuing to act improperly with PTI and Imran; however, his stance with regard to external threats has been spot on.
Munir's stance against India has been spot on. Can't say what he will do with US. I do think people are going overboard in their assessment that Pakistan will give military bases to US for attacks against Iran and Afghanistan. I don't think Munir will make that blunder but generals do have a history of subservience to US.

Anyways, it is unfortunate that a 22nd grade officer is making decisions for a country of 250 million people !
 
Moeed Pirzada in his vlogs many times that IK naivety and to be honest lack of political leadership, beareacratic experience hurt him where as the likes of Nawaz Sharif, Shahbaz Sharif, Zardari have all benefited from the experience, wisdom they gained from their chief minister, ministerial, presidential roles before and understood the soft signals from the institutions.

The PM job was IKs first role in a leadership position when he had never served as a minister or chief minister before and he failed to understand the system, bureaucracies and the signals the system was sending

IK ignored many warning signs that the system establishment was switching sides and getting close to the opposition

- The courts and the army giving the green light for NS departure abroad

- The opposition at that time giving green light to Bajwas extension as well. Why would they do that if there was no understanding with Bajwa?

- The Election Commission repeated negative decisions against pti in favour of the opposition

- The media relentlessly going after the pti with full freedom with no repurcussions

- Bidens refusal to talk to IK in 2021 but Bilawal made a week long unexplained trip to the US

- Nawaz Sharif meeting with various high level people in London

For some reason IK was over confident that his position as PM was secure when he could have easily dissolved the assemblies before the no confidence motion was tabled but IK was over confident he could beat it.

The likes of Nawaz Sharif, Shahbaz Sharif, Maryam Nawaz, Asif Zardari, Bilawal Bhutto may not have maqbuliat, mandate but these guys are politically astute enough to identify signals from the system and the way things are heading and they are very good at preempting what the other side is doing.

PTI in comparison is a novice, full of talk no action parasitic party totally dependent and living of the founder party.
Imran Khan believed (like most Pakistanis) that military will never openly go against the will of the people. His plan was that even in case of vote of no confidence, he has the streets and he will straightaway go for elections. That is exactly what he did.
His jalsa in Islamabad (where he presented cyphered letter), few days before vote of no confidence, was probably the biggest political gathering in Pakistan's history. He thought that through show of public support, he will be able to exert moral pressure on military led elite. He misunderstood the thirst for power among our corrupt elite and that they were not bounded by morals. I remember at that time, I thought this will turn into a long legal battle in supreme court but Chief justice turned out to another rubber stamp. Democracy could have been saved if CJ of supreme court took a strong stance then but alas, it seems like we are not destined to prosper as a nation anytime soon.
 
Khawaja Asif speaking during an interview:
“This is a hybrid model. It’s not an ideal democratic government … So, this arrangement, the hybrid arrangement, I think [it] is doing wonders.”

“If this sort of [hybrid] model was adopted way back in the 90s, things would have been much, much better, because the confrontation between [military] establishment and the political government, it actually retarded the progress of our democracy.”

“We have common platforms, like SIFC and other platforms, where military leadership and civilian leadership, they sit together and decide about the business. So, this is something which is a de facto arrangement and it’s working very well.”

“It’s something mutual, we have a co-ownership of the power structure"

“There is no superimposed system or superimposed organization on Shehbaz Sharif which dictates him and he acts accordingly … [He] is making his decisions independently and obviously he is in regular consultation with the establishment on all levels.”

“Believe me, very honestly, we haven’t had any moment where decisions were not made unanimously with total agreement. Things are moving very smoothly. And god willing, one day we will achieve the sort of democracy which is needed by our country.”
 
Indians and PTI supporters are burning in equal capacity. General Munir is a daring man. He has made the world respect Pakistan again.
A leopard never changes its spots
I thought you didnt like Dictators. Didn't you blame the woes of PK on the Generals and Mullahs and here we are today with both in power. A General with Mullahs( JI and JUI-F and TLP) all in power.
 
Khawaja Asif speaking during an interview:
“This is a hybrid model. It’s not an ideal democratic government … So, this arrangement, the hybrid arrangement, I think [it] is doing wonders.”

“If this sort of [hybrid] model was adopted way back in the 90s, things would have been much, much better, because the confrontation between [military] establishment and the political government, it actually retarded the progress of our democracy.”

“We have common platforms, like SIFC and other platforms, where military leadership and civilian leadership, they sit together and decide about the business. So, this is something which is a de facto arrangement and it’s working very well.”

“It’s something mutual, we have a co-ownership of the power structure"

“There is no superimposed system or superimposed organization on Shehbaz Sharif which dictates him and he acts accordingly … [He] is making his decisions independently and obviously he is in regular consultation with the establishment on all levels.”

“Believe me, very honestly, we haven’t had any moment where decisions were not made unanimously with total agreement. Things are moving very smoothly. And god willing, one day we will achieve the sort of democracy which is needed by our country.”
What a response. @Mamoon and others told us that NS and Maryam would fight this🤣🤣🥰
 
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Imran Khan believed (like most Pakistanis) that military will never openly go against the will of the people. His plan was that even in case of vote of no confidence, he has the streets and he will straightaway go for elections. That is exactly what he did.
His jalsa in Islamabad (where he presented cyphered letter), few days before vote of no confidence, was probably the biggest political gathering in Pakistan's history. He thought that through show of public support, he will be able to exert moral pressure on military led elite. He misunderstood the thirst for power among our corrupt elite and that they were not bounded by morals. I remember at that time, I thought this will turn into a long legal battle in supreme court but Chief justice turned out to another rubber stamp. Democracy could have been saved if CJ of supreme court took a strong stance then but alas, it seems like we are not destined to prosper as a nation anytime soon.
A corrupt elite without morals, not bound by any laws will never give up power voluntarily. The CJP at the time was all talk and by the time he and other useful idiots like Minullah at IHC realised that they had been played, it was too late. The fact that Bandial didnt have the balls to have his orders enforced( elections in 90 days)made every criminal act normal.
 
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