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Generational chokers vs chokers of the decade, whose curse will finally end?

CricketCartoons said:
India and Pakistan have the same ratio of chocking in finals in ICC WC.

Pakistan goes one step further and chokes in group stages also. That is the only difference.
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Thread is about SA and India, and no the ratios are not the same.

Control your insecurity, India are the ultimate chokers, and there is no such thing as choking in group stages, only KOs, and India WC23 is the mothership of chokes.
 
Technics 1210 said:
Thread is about SA and India, and no the ratios are not the same.

Control your insecurity, India are the ultimate chokers, and there is no such thing as choking in group stages, only KOs, and India WC23 is the mothership of chokes.
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You have made an arbitrary definition of choking. Tell me what is your definition so that I can see it from your POV.

Sure, thread is not about choking in general, but only after SA and India, that is why Pakistan's legendary choking deserves a new thread, and since many of you want that, I will oblige despite my reluctance in bringing pain to fans and disrespect to players.
 
MenInG said:
Maybe my screen is broken.

@Major did you mention Pakistan in your post?

Seems to be a normal modus operandi of our Indian friends. Any mention of any weakness in India and outcomes Pakistan.

Getting boring.
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Not sure about screen stuff as you can check on your own.

Well, you gotta provide an explanation or do an assessment before putting these headlines on two top cricket nations in the last 30 years
 
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Technics 1210 said:
Thread is about SA and India, and no the ratios are not the same.

Control your insecurity, India are the ultimate chokers, and there is no such thing as choking in group stages, only KOs, and India WC23 is the mothership of chokes.
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Where does 1999 WC final choking stand in ranking?
 
CricketCartoons said:
You have made an arbitrary definition of choking. Tell me what is your definition so that I can see it from your POV.

Sure, thread is not about choking in general, but only after SA and India, that is why Pakistan's legendary choking deserves a new thread, and since many of you want that, I will oblige despite my reluctance in bringing pain to fans and disrespect to players.
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Then go make the thread.

Until then, India WC23 is the mother of all chokes. Followed by CT17.
 
RidiculousMan said:
I think it's pretty clear. Overwhelming favorites and undefeatable all tournament but chocking at the very last moment.
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That is why it was the mother of all chokes. They gave up the match without even a fight. There was no competition in any phase of the match. India 2023 Final was also a choke, but nothing compared to 1999 WC. They were in the match for a long time and there was competition.
 
CricketCartoons said:
That is why it was the mother of all chokes. They gave up the match without even a fight. There was no competition in any phase of the match. India 2023 Final was also a choke, but nothing compared to 1999 WC. They were in the match for a long time and there was competition.
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That was the most one sided final ever. They never had the upper hand, not even for a moment. Got rolled out for 132 and then Aus chased it a RR over 6 again the best phaast bowling attack in the world
 
Statpadder Inc said:
That was the most one sided final ever. They never had the upper hand, not even for a moment. Got rolled out for 132 and then Aus chased it a RR over 6 again the best phaast bowling attack in the world
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2017 was more one sided. Plus India got decimated by a mediocre Pakistan team whereas we lost to a team which would dominate the next decade and had 4 ATGs.
 
Statpadder Inc said:
That was the most one sided final ever. They never had the upper hand, not even for a moment. Got rolled out for 132 and then Aus chased it a RR over 6 again the best phaast bowling attack in the world
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You never called that match as mother of all chokes, but there are people who are ready to tag your teams loss with that label.

The answer is pure hatred.
 
GLORY OF '92 said:
2017 was more one sided. Plus India got decimated by a mediocre Pakistan team whereas we lost to a team which would dominate the next decade and had 4 ATGs.
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Pakistan had defeated the same aussies in 99 WC, only to lose in the finals. So don't give this excuse that we lost to a future great team, when you were the greatest team at the present in 99.
 
GLORY OF '92 said:
2017 was more one sided. Plus India got decimated by a mediocre Pakistan team whereas we lost to a team which would dominate the next decade and had 4 ATGs.
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They were not an atg team in 1999 though, Sa were the best team of the tournament. The thrashing in the final went to make them future atgs.

And 2017 wasn't a wc final and you still had no ball and then Pandya scoring many sixes.

1999 was perfect dominance, no Pak player stood up like Pandya
 
Just losing a match doesn't make it a choke.

Choking has nothing to do with cricketing skills either.

Losing means you are defeated by your opponent.

Choking is when you self destruct at the sign of pressure and give the victory to the opponent.
 
Statpadder Inc said:
They were not an atg team in 1999 though, Sa were the best team of the tournament. The thrashing in the final went to make them future atgs.

And 2017 wasn't a wc final and you still had no ball and then Pandya scoring many sixes.

1999 was perfect dominance, no Pak player stood up like Pandya
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True. In 2017 at least there was a moment when opponent was getting worried during pandya's innings.

In 1999 there were ZERO moments to worry the opponent. It was complete self destruction.

Mother of all chokes (sorry if this is the language some posters like to hear).
 
I was wondering why this thread was opened.

Then i realised. India beat Pakista. Now India has knocked out England. For most people on PP that's a double whammy.

Two teams, zero wins against India in last two ICC events.
 
CricketCartoons said:
True. In 2017 at least there was a moment when opponent was getting worried during pandya's innings.

In 1999 there were ZERO moments to worry the opponent. It was complete self destruction.

Mother of all chokes (sorry if this is the language some posters like to hear).
Click to expand...

Mother of all chokes is having everything on a platter and 130k supporters and getting 80 after 10 overs and still getting humiliated. You cannot top it.
 
GLORY OF '92 said:
Mother of all chokes is having everything on a platter and 130k supporters and getting 80 after 10 overs and still getting humiliated. You cannot top it.
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How come 80 after 10 is choking?

You are only proving my argument that on that grand stage they were still doing well for a duration of the match.

Now compare it with 1999.
 
cricketjoshila said:
I was wondering why this thread was opened.

Then i realised. India beat Pakista. Now India has knocked out England. For most people on PP that's a double whammy.

Two teams, zero wins against India in last two ICC events.
Click to expand...
Such clickbait threads bring engagement, so it is fun. One should see it from that angle and indulge in the spirit of sportsmanship.
 
GLORY OF '92 said:
Lol you don't understand. Never mind.
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You conceded that there were not choking at the grandest stage in front of a huge crowd as they were 80 after 10 overs.

Choking is when you go all out for 132(?) with ZERO fight and ZERO sweat to the opponent.

1999 WC Final: Mother of all Chokes.
 
RedwoodOriginal said:
Hoping South Africa finally win some silverware. I really like this unit led by Aiden Markram. The Barbados pitch will suit them more than Arnos Vale or Providence would have. I think Barbados is probably the most balanced pitch in the tournament. Has something for bowlers and batters. You can get a good score on this wicket but also chase it down. India though are in some serious form having run through England and Australia. Eventhough they are essentially playing with 9 players.
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Haha kohli jadeja and dube. How in the world are these 3 still picked is mind boggling when you ha e jaiswal who just brutally destroyed England in the test series not too long ago. He also demolished some teams in odi

Then there is abishek Samson etc for jadeja
Or parag who can bowl

Lastly dube. I am not sure where to start with this guy. He is the worst and most uncoordinated player I have ever seen. He is like a huge pile of hot steaming pile of feces.
He is a big guy but has zero timing and power lmao
 
While SA choked in semifinals, India choked in finals. This is the key difference.

However, the WC23 choke is the biggest of them all, because India didn't just choke in the final, they totally choked the tournament and Modi's send off.
 
kron said:
I think sweep shot is reverse jinxing india. Maybe secretly wants india to win
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How does jinxing or reverse jinxing work?

During 2019 and 2023 WC, I was so worried about elections that I prayed to God that please make India lose the WC and make Modi India's PM. Both the times my prayers were answered. But thinking logically, there is no cause effect relation here.

Just for my own psychological comfort in times of uncertainty. Jinxing is just that, giving oneself emotional comfort during uncertainty.
 
chinaman00 said:
I think South Africa invented choking. Unfair to call India chokers. They have just been unlucky.

India vs South Africa, India will easily win. India is a complete team. South Africa is not. Simple as that and with Australia out of the finals, India’s chances have never been better.
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When you have dube kohli current and jadeja in the team you aren't complete.

I would say SA favourites. Pace bowling arshdeep is not better than jansen or nortje. Bumrah is better than all of them yes.

India dint pick their better bowlers in the tournament. Spin India is ahead yes.

Batting - qdk markram klassen and Miller. That's 4 quality hitters.

India have rohit pant sky pandya

If india pick jaiswal rinku etc then sure yes India are favourites but while they are carrying passengers I give the edge to SA

Would say pandya has weakness vs rabada and nortje. He can hit bard lengths.
 
Technics 1210 said:
While SA choked in semifinals, India choked in finals. This is the key difference.

However, the WC23 choke is the biggest of them all, because India didn't just choke in the final, they totally choked the tournament and Indian government.
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Wrong.

1999 Final was the biggest of all chokes. ZERO sweat to the opponents.

In 2023 Final, there were passage of play where opponent was under pressure.

Don't take away the tag from the Pakistani class of 1999.
 
Technics 1210 said:
South Africa have only ever choked in the semi finals.

India are serial chokers in finals. WC16, CT17, WC23, and Test Championship finals.

Hmmmmmm.
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Think you meant 2014 t20 wc where India lost to lanka?
2016 India lost semis no?
 
It is obvious that billions of Indian are on edge, and why wouldn't they be? Burnt countless times in the past 11 years, and finally a T20 WC beckons them in Amreeka.

Would be a great send off for Dravid, though the reality is India could win the next 10 WCs but nothing will ever supersede the pain, humiliation, trauma, and mental scarring of generations, of the WC23 choke.

T20WC win for India will be a mere consolation prize like bread crumbs.
 
Technics 1210 said:
It is obvious that billions of Indian are on edge, and why wouldn't they be? Burnt countless times in the past 11 years, and finally a T20 WC beckons them in Amreeka.

Would be a great send off for Dravid, though the reality is India could win the next 10 WCs but nothing will ever supersede the pain, humiliation, trauma, and mental scarring of generations, of the WC23 choke.

T20WC win for India will be a mere consolation prize like bread crumbs.
Click to expand...
Again Wrong.

Time always heals every wound.

Just like it has healed the pain of the BIGGEST choke in cricket: 1999 WC Final.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Again Wrong.

Time always heals every wound.

Just like it has healed the pain of the BIGGEST choke in cricket: 1999 WC Final.
Click to expand...
There are Indians in their 10s of millions (older generation) who still cannot let go of that Miandad six so save the time moves on malarky! Time does not heal, it is death that cures the pain!
 
Technics 1210 said:
There are Indians in their 10s of millions (older generation) who still cannot let go of that Miandad six so save the time moves on malarky! Time does not heal, it is death that cures the pain!
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Maybe you are right and not wrong this time.

But I will not wish death on those suffering from the pain of the Biggest Choke. That is not cricket.
 
This is a tough one . Won't be surprised if rain intervines, and the chockers tag on both remains, with the weather as the winner. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
 
CricketCartoons said:
Maybe you are right and not wrong this time.

But I will not wish death on those suffering from the pain of the Biggest Choke. That is not cricket.
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I am referring to a generation fading away, and along with it, the pain.

It is a fact of life.

So when you say time is a great healer, it is not.
 
I think people are using the word "choking" deliberately and diluting its meaning. I think it is all to do with condemning a team (hatred towards them) and undermining the efforts of reaching that stage (reaching Finals/Semi-Finals) Someone has to lose a final or semifinal... If every loss is a choke, then what's the point of playing the game (1 team has to win and the other has to lose). I think the only time when a team has not choked in finals is when India and Sri Lanka were declared co-champions in 2002. Even Australia losing to Sri Lanka in 1996 can be called as choking is it?

I think Pakistanis are the ones who are fond of this word "choking"... They use this against teams (mainly India) who are able to reach Semis/Finals regularly while their team fail to win group matches even against minnows! Also they use it when they beat India in only 2 World Tournament matches (one was a group stage T20 match and the other was Champions trophey finals not even world cup).

This is typical saddist mindset of a person who enjoys others' failures more than even relishing his own success!
 
kron said:
Haha kohli jadeja and dube. How in the world are these 3 still picked is mind boggling when you ha e jaiswal who just brutally destroyed England in the test series not too long ago. He also demolished some teams in odi

Then there is abishek Samson etc for jadeja
Or parag who can bowl

Lastly dube. I am not sure where to start with this guy. He is the worst and most uncoordinated player I have ever seen. He is like a huge pile of hot steaming pile of feces.
He is a big guy but has zero timing and power lmao
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Jadeja can still be useful with the ball. Dube though is really bad. It surprises me how India have gone with him, considering the amount of young guys they have right now, knocking down the door to get selected. Rinku, who is in the reserves could have been a million times better in that role. I would have had Panyda at 5 (far better hitter of spin than Dube can ever be) and Rinku at 6. If you wanted someone who could bowl too, you could have gone with Abhishek and having him open the batting with Rohit.
 
RamLakhan said:
This is typical saddist mindset of a person who enjoys others' failures more than even relishing his own success!
Click to expand...
I think we all are guilty of that. Schadenfreude is delicious. Pakistani fans have every right to enjoy any negative outcome of Indian fans, no issues with that.

I am only arguing about the holes in the choking discussion. Yet to see someone counter that 1999 Final was not the biggest choke.
 
Technics 1210 said:
I am referring to a generation fading away, and along with it, the pain.

It is a fact of life.

So when you say time is a great healer, it is not.
Click to expand...
Death is not the great healer, because death removes both pain and happiness. It doesn't care either ways.

Time is the great healer, because with time, it forgets or pretends to forget the pain, but keeps remembering the happiness.

How many times have you watched reruns of 1992 final or 2017 Final compared to 1999 final?
 
Oh man i really hit a nerve on the indian fans here.
 
Technics 1210 said:
There are Indians in their 10s of millions (older generation) who still cannot let go of that Miandad six so save the time moves on malarky! Time does not heal, it is death that cures the pain!
Click to expand...
10s of millions of Pakistanis get sleepless nights because of ajay jadeja and what sachin did in 2003.

Works both ways
 
How can I forget, one of the biggest chokes.

In 1987, when under their greatest ever captain IK, Pak bottled the semis at home to an unfancied Aussie team despite being the favourites

In the 1979 sf, they were 176-1 and somehow failed to chase 290. Massive choke
 
RamLakhan said:
I think people are using the word "choking" deliberately and diluting its meaning. I think it is all to do with condemning a team (hatred towards them) and undermining the efforts of reaching that stage (reaching Finals/Semi-Finals) Someone has to lose a final or semifinal... If every loss is a choke, then what's the point of playing the game (1 team has to win and the other has to lose). I think the only time when a team has not choked in finals is when India and Sri Lanka were declared co-champions in 2002. Even Australia losing to Sri Lanka in 1996 can be called as choking is it?

I think Pakistanis are the ones who are fond of this word "choking"... They use this against teams (mainly India) who are able to reach Semis/Finals regularly while their team fail to win group matches even against minnows! Also they use it when they beat India in only 2 World Tournament matches (one was a group stage T20 match and the other was Champions trophey finals not even world cup).

This is typical saddist mindset of a person who enjoys others' failures more than even relishing his own success!
Click to expand...
Yes agreed.

Choke means lose from winning position or a complete collapse under pressure. it is not becoming over used
 
Statpadder Inc said:
How can I forget, one of the biggest chokes.

In 1987, when under their greatest ever captain IK, Pak bottled the semis at home to an unfancied Aussie team despite being the favourites

In the 1979 sf, they were 176-1 and somehow failed to chase 290. Massive choke
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Even in 1983 they choked in sf
 
if you have a deeper analysis INdia probably was not chokers. Their team set up is not designed to handle unexpected situations. They rely on having perfect games. Most of the time they lose it due to unexpected collapses in batting. Otherwise they did not lose matches because of NRR calculation failure, NRR failure. This is the first time ever INdia goes in with 8 batsmen in the last 10 years or so. Even this can be improved vastly. Hence the all out aggressive approach doesn't hurt India as they bat deep. Teams were aware of top heavy Indian team that could be snuffed out once they get rid of top 3. In the coming years that structure will change. India will have a fool proof unit. Even this one i did not expect them to cross the semi final. Kudos to them for crossing that bridge. You always have to analyse how to improve even when you win. That is how you can make a real progress.
 
CricketCartoons said:
I think we all are guilty of that. Schadenfreude is delicious. Pakistani fans have every right to enjoy any negative outcome of Indian fans, no issues with that.

I am only arguing about the holes in the choking discussion. Yet to see someone counter that 1999 Final was not the biggest choke.
Click to expand...

It's been countered but you lack the cricket knowledge to understand.
 
Technics 1210 said:
It is obvious that billions of Indian are on edge, and why wouldn't they be? Burnt countless times in the past 11 years, and finally a T20 WC beckons them in Amreeka.

Would be a great send off for Dravid, though the reality is India could win the next 10 WCs but nothing will ever supersede the pain, humiliation, trauma, and mental scarring of generations, of the WC23 choke.

T20WC win for India will be a mere consolation prize like bread crumbs.
Click to expand...
You got to chill mate- it's just a game. Yea Ind underperformed last 10 yrs without an icc trophy but Ind will win quite a bit with the younder Ind players coming in. You dramatize the 23WC like Bollywood masala films lol! Cricket is played on the pitch- rst all is outside noise. Toss pitch weather home team home bias etc etc - nothing matters once you are on the ground.

Alss world cricket has reached a stage where every single WC- t20 odi test - will be won only by either of the 3 teams- Aus Ind Eng barrinng the very odd exception - atleast for the next 10 years.
 
Technics 1210 said:
Yes you are getting defensive.

While Pakistan might lose to USA in a super over, India lost a WC final at home - nothing will ever top this, considering how the WC was orchestrated for an India, and Modi win.

If India win the T20 WC, then Indians can brag about their 1st ICC win in 11 years, after spending Billions on failure.
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We have no won so we don’t have to brag, I’m offending and not defending which is what this thread title taken from FB troll page is.(yes I saw the post with the same title).

Pakistan spends way more than Afghans and USa too if your logic is money..
 
Bliss for David Miller who has been part of so many heartbreaking losses despite giving it his all.

- 56* off 51 vs Eng in CT 13 SF
- 21* off 12 vs Ind in WT20 14 SF
- 49 off 18 vs NZ in CWC 15 SF
- 101 off 116 vs Aus in CWC 23 SF

Never failed in this situation for SA. He was there for them every time. Performing everytime but still ending up losing. He has seen it all, most clutch SA player ever. Really deserve this , today he gets to soak up this playing the final moment. I hope he holds the trophy now.


FB_IMG_1719582069963.jpg
 
JaDed said:
We have no won so we don’t have to brag, I’m offending and not defending which is what this thread title taken from FB troll page is.(yes I saw the post with the same title).

Pakistan spends way more than Afghans and USa too if your logic is money..
Click to expand...
Why are you bringing in Afghanistan now?

You are offensive on the basis of underlying fear (of India losing another ICC final)
 
Technics 1210 said:
Why are you bringing in Afghanistan now?

You are offensive on the basis of underlying fear (of India losing another ICC final)
Click to expand...
India may as very well lose to the better team.
You made a point on how India spends money on its cricket and yet can’t win, My point on Afghans was on that or even USA for that matter.
 
If it wasn’t India in finals , majority Indians would be supporting Saffers too.
 
Dew or rain probably screwed India a few times but India just underperformed a few times as well

2023 WC - Dew
2022 WC - Outplayed by Eng
2021 WC - DNQ
2019 WC - Rain
2017 CT - Outplayed by Pak
2016 WC - Dew
2015 WC - Outplayed by Aus
2014 WC -Outplayed by SL
WTC - Rigged against Asian teams. Eng venues favor Aus, Eng, NZ, SA

I'd say conditions screwed India thrice. But again the same Dew helped India win the 2011 WC.
There should be no day night games in India until they sort the dew issue. Test championship venues should be alternated between continents.
 
rhony said:
India will not play in Pakistan as long as BJP is running cricket in India.
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We didn't play under Congress either. From 1989 to 2004, we didn't play in Pak too, only under Vajpayee did we tour them.

Didn't play in Pak from 1955 to 1979 too.

Even if the INDIA alliance had come to power, we wouldn't have gone to Pak
 
Statpadder Inc said:
We didn't play under Congress either. From 1989 to 2004, we didn't play in Pak too, only under Vajpayee did we tour them.

Didn't play in Pak from 1955 to 1979 too.

Even if the INDIA alliance had come to power, we wouldn't have gone to Pak
Click to expand...
Yes but the motives are different. BjP wants to hit Pak financially. Hosting India for a few games in CT will make a case for Pak to ask for a full bilateral series. That would be a windfall for PCB. BCCI aka BJP wants to retain the excuse of "security reasons" for not touring Pak.
 
deltexas said:
You got to chill mate- it's just a game. Yea Ind underperformed last 10 yrs without an icc trophy but Ind will win quite a bit with the younder Ind players coming in. You dramatize the 23WC like Bollywood masala films lol! Cricket is played on the pitch- rst all is outside noise. Toss pitch weather home team home bias etc etc - nothing matters once you are on the ground.

Alss world cricket has reached a stage where every single WC- t20 odi test - will be won only by either of the 3 teams- Aus Ind Eng barrinng the very odd exception - atleast for the next 10 years.
Click to expand...

Also more on the Big 3 (Aus Ind Eng) in icc events. With the 2024 T20 WC finalists set, the only ICC men's finals this century starting from year 2000 to not feature a member of the Big 3 remain the 2009 and 2012 T20 WCs. Big 3 have made 92% of the finals and won 65% of the trophies. And going forward the final % will be the same but the trophy win % will also increase just because Eng is a genuine icc trophy contender only from 2017 onwards..
 
Choking is losing from easily winnable positions in a given game. If some team clerly outplays you on a given day then it's not choking.

In this final, we may see one team clearly outplaying other team or we can see one team losing from a easily winnable position(choking). Or third option will be , a closely contested game without any team being in easily winnable position.

I am hoping for a closely contested game with SA finally winning it.
 
CricketCartoons said:
Pakistan had defeated the same aussies in 99 WC, only to lose in the finals. So don't give this excuse that we lost to a future great team, when you were the greatest team at the present in 99.
Click to expand...

Didn't India beat Australia in group 2023?
 
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rhony said:
Yes but the motives are different. BjP wants to hit Pak financially. Hosting India for a few games in CT will make a case for Pak to ask for a full bilateral series. That would be a windfall for PCB. BCCI aka BJP wants to retain the excuse of "security reasons" for not touring Pak.
Click to expand...

BJP needs to be careful within few decades they are likely to have 300 million more Muslims as Pakistan disintegrates
 
GillEdits said:
Don't you guys celebrate Pakistan lose?? It's same for Indian fans.
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To be honest Indians really don't care so much for Pakistan. Except when India plays Pakistan. Even there the interest has declined. This time when the India-Pakistan game was on - most Indians were busy watching inauguration of Modi as 3rd time PM

20 years back during India Pakistan games there wud be virtual curfew like situation in India. Now even during games, its business as usual. U don't see the buzz around

Have said this many times - India have stopped bothering about Pakistan. This obsession is very one sided

For most Indians fans beating Australia was the real deal
 
Anyways nothing against Pakistani fans. The thing is Pakistan is going thru a very bad phase. Political chaos, economic woes, debt crisis. The average Pakistani is living a very difficult life - relative to other Global South nations. In such situations sport becomes an escape from reality & source of joy. Unfortunately for Pakistani fans ,even their cricket team has declined badly & provides more misery than comfort

To make matters worse ur biggest " enemy " is so far ahead in every field. It only increases the sense of jealousy & bitterness. Which is why Pakistani fans love it when India loses. Its human nature

I just hope Pakistan recovers as a nation. So that their nation & their cricket team gives them more opportunities to celebrate.
 
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