Had Jofra Archer never moved from West Indies, would his talent been recognized?

[Major]

Had he never moved from the west indies to England, would he had been recognised like he is being today for his talent?

It makes me wonder, how many other talented West indies players are out there but dont get to play only because of there cricket not getting the same following and media attention

 

[Mueez]

Thomas and Cottrell come to my mind if we are talking about bowling.

They have the potential to carry on the legacy of West Indies fast-bowling culture.

Shimron Hetmyer and Shai Hope are also very decent bats.

So yeah, Archer wouldn’t have gotten the hype which he is getting currently.

 

[HitWicket]

There's a question of how much of his development was through the English system. When he first came to England he was unable to get in the WI u19 team and was bowling off spin in club cricket with a massive back issue.

 

[sweep_shot]

I feel that Jofra's career took off thanks to various T20 leagues. He proved his worth in those leagues; those leagues truly gave him the worldwide recognition.

He was a superstar long before he made international debut.

 

[MenInG]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The Barbados cricket Association and the West Indies Cricket Board has to put things in place rapidly so we don’t loose players like Archer etc in the future, as a lover of West Indies cricket this is heartbreaking he isn’t wearing Maroon.</p>— Tino95 (@tinobest) <a href="https://twitter.com/tinobest/status/1163114280864112640?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 18, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Aman]

It's disgusting players can choose which countries to play for simply because of their career, ICC really should get their act together and sort out international eligibility.

Frankly I don't understand how a mercenary like him can take any joy from it.

 

[Robert]

It's disgusting players can choose which countries to play for simply because of their career, ICC really should get their act together and sort out international eligibility.

Frankly I don't understand how a mercenary like him can take any joy from it.

His father is English and he has a British passport.

Under ECB rules he would not be eligible to play for England for seven years after he moved to England at age 18, but this was accelerated to comply with ICC rules.

 

[Aman]

His father is English and he has a British passport.

Under ECB rules he would not be eligible to play for England for seven years after he moved to England at age 18, but this was accelerated to comply with ICC rules.

He came up through the WI system and you literally changed your own rules to get him into the squad.

Let's not forget your Irish captain who played international cricket for Ireland.

There should be no situations like this and we've been guilty of it too, that's why I want the ICC to sort it out and not have cricketers jumping from country to country for the sake of their career.

 

[Robert]

He came up through the WI system and you literally changed your own rules to get him into the squad.

Let's not forget your Irish captain who played international cricket for Ireland.

There should be no situations like this and we've been guilty of it too, that's why I want the ICC to sort it out and not have cricketers jumping from country to country for the sake of their career.

To the ICC standard, yes.

Morgs is great.

I see no issue. People should be allowed to play for whoever they want, given a familial link and qualifying period.

 

[hashimafzal]

It's disgusting players can choose which countries to play for simply because of their career, ICC really should get their act together and sort out international eligibility.

Frankly I don't understand how a mercenary like him can take any joy from it.

You should ask players like KP who moved on from SA because he wasn't getting picked for the South African team. Does being born in a certain nation mean you have to sell them your soul? He made a decision for based on what he felt would be best for his career because at the end of the day, his job is to play cricket and if he feels playing in the English set up, which made him the player he is and gives him the best chance to succeed is where he should be then thats his decision.

 

[Aman]

To the ICC standard, yes.

Morgs is great.

I see no issue. People should be allowed to play for whoever they want, given a familial link and qualifying period.

Of course you have no issue, you're the main country which poaches players and reaps the benefits from it.

 

[kingusama92]

You should ask players like KP who moved on from SA because he wasn't getting picked for the South African team. Does being born in a certain nation mean you have to sell them your soul? He made a decision for based on what he felt would be best for his career because at the end of the day, his job is to play cricket and if he feels playing in the English set up, which made him the player he is and gives him the best chance to succeed is where he should be then thats his decision.

I think the idea is these players shouldn't have the choice. Can't blame the players for taking advantage but the system should be better.

Eoin Morgan is probably the most ridiculous example of switching teams. Once you play for one team, you shouldn't be allowed to switch in the middle of your international career like it's some IPL team.

 

[Aman]

You should ask players like KP who moved on from SA because he wasn't getting picked for the South African team. Does being born in a certain nation mean you have to sell them your soul? He made a decision for based on what he felt would be best for his career because at the end of the day, his job is to play cricket and if he feels playing in the English set up, which made him the player he is and gives him the best chance to succeed is where he should be then thats his decision.

This is international cricket, there are no transfer windows to sign players from other countries...

 

[Aman]

I think the idea is these players shouldn't have the choice. Can't blame the players for taking advantage but the system should be better.

Eoin Morgan is probably the most ridiculous example of switching teams. Once you play for one team, you shouldn't be allowed to switch in the middle of your international career like it's some IPL team.

Brother these rules will only be reviewed once someone poaches a talented Indian player who turns out to be great.

 

[Danyaalr01]

It's disgusting players can choose which countries to play for simply because of their career, ICC really should get their act together and sort out international eligibility.

Frankly I don't understand how a mercenary like him can take any joy from it.

If someone has moved to another country for a better life and better job security, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to play cricket for that country.

If that was the case players like Usman Khawaja and Archer would be getting punished for moving to a safer country where your hard work has results.

 

[Aman]

If someone has moved to another country for a better life and better job security, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to play cricket for that country.

If that was the case players like Usman Khawaja and Archer would be getting punished for moving to a safer country where your hard work has results.

These rules need to be better defined before it gets out of hand and teams start scouting players overseas and lure them over with the promise of international cricket and $$$.

I don't have much issue with Khawaja, he moved when he was 5 years old, came through the Aussie cricket system and learnt most of his cricket in Australia.

 

[Shazzam]

I think the idea is these players shouldn't have the choice. Can't blame the players for taking advantage but the system should be better.

Eoin Morgan is probably the most ridiculous example of switching teams. Once you play for one team, you shouldn't be allowed to switch in the middle of your international career like it's some IPL team.

Thats like saying if you were born in Pakistan you are not allowed to move to Canada, even if you feel you can have better living standards. Players are only human, nobody should have the right to determine where a player plays. If there are better opportunities out there than they should take it.

As for your IPL comparison I do not see it. In IPL there are only four foreigners allowed and all of them are established cricketers who play international cricket. Whoever England picked did not have the same reputation as the players picked for IPL. Morgan played for a associates team. He himself wanted to play for England all his life.

 

[Danyaalr01]

Archer moved to England for more security and better opportunities in cricket, which is basically the same as when people move to different countries for better job opportunities. If it is legal, I don't see a problem with it.

If he wanted to Archer could have come to NZ, waited 5 years and played here, just like Elliot and Wagner.

 

[volcyz]

it would be a joke that anyone wants to play for WI

 

[RickyG]

It's disgusting players can choose which countries to play for simply because of their career, ICC really should get their act together and sort out international eligibility.

Frankly I don't understand how a mercenary like him can take any joy from it.

Must disgust you to see the likes of Jeet Raval, Colin De Grandhomme, Ajaz Patel, Ish Sodhi, Neil Wagner, Luke Ronchi, BJ Watling, Colin Munro playing for New Zealand then.

Famous South African Grant Elliot took you to a world cup final. I bet you supported Australia in the final.

No one has more imported players than the honourable New Zealand apart from England perhaps.

I have no problems with the likes of Pietersen and Archer migrating to further their careers. I feel privileged to have witnessed them play. It's no different from people that migrate to other countries for security, economical or development reasons.

 

[RickyG]

I think the idea is these players shouldn't have the choice. Can't blame the players for taking advantage but the system should be better.

Eoin Morgan is probably the most ridiculous example of switching teams. Once you play for one team, you shouldn't be allowed to switch in the middle of your international career like it's some IPL team.

The only way Morgan could play test cricket was to play for England. I am not sure I can blame the guy.

Someone like Usman Qadir or Fawad Khan wouldn't be able to play for a domestic team in Pakistan but can play in the shield and further their careers. Don't see why an engineer can move from Pakistan but not cricketers. If they receive Australian citizenship and get selected to play for Australia then that is their right.

Do you think a Canadian who was a landed immigrant should have lesser rights than someone born here?

 

[HitWicket]

Brother these rules will only be reviewed once someone poaches a talented Indian player who turns out to be great.

Australia or England are the only international teams that can really match/better India in terms of pay and I doubt there's many Indians with British or Australian citizenship in India.

 

[barah_admi]

Had he never moved from the west indies to England, would he had been recognised like he is being today for his talent?

It makes me wonder, how many other talented West indies players are out there but dont get to play only because of there cricket not getting the same following and media attention

I think he would have been recognised but he would never have made the money he made playing County, t20 and now international for England.

 

[Robert]

Of course you have no issue, you're the main country which poaches players and reaps the benefits from it.

Poached indeed. How silly.

I had no issue with Patel when he went to play for NZ, Symonds when he went to play for Australia or Murtagh when he went to Ireland.

People should be free to play for whom they want given a qualifying period and family relationship.

 

[ManFan]

Poached indeed. How silly.

I had no issue with Patel when he went to play for NZ, Symonds when he went to play for Australia or Murtagh when he went to Ireland.

People should be free to play for whom they want given a qualifying period and family relationship.

Agreed.

 

[Major]

I think he would have been recognised but he would never have made the money he made playing County, t20 and now international for England.

no, i think your wrong.

in the world cup, i got to see the West Indies attack. It was marvelous.

Only thing was they did not have the set up like ENgland that could further polish them and get them better cricketing careers.

Even Kemar Roach would walk into the England side.

West Indies cricketers are unknown entities.

 

[Major]

It's disgusting players can choose which countries to play for simply because of their career, ICC really should get their act together and sort out international eligibility.

Frankly I don't understand how a mercenary like him can take any joy from it.

bro, tell me one thing

If this guy was in the west Indies would he had been getting this fame or recognition?

West indies has bowlers like Cotrell who were magnificent but who knows about him? There cricket has become a joke no onee cares about it.

IF these guys were playing for other teams theyw ould get better recognition.

 

[Aman]

Must disgust you to see the likes of Jeet Raval, Colin De Grandhomme, Ajaz Patel, Ish Sodhi, Neil Wagner, Luke Ronchi, BJ Watling, Colin Munro playing for New Zealand then.

Famous South African Grant Elliot took you to a world cup final. I bet you supported Australia in the final.

No one has more imported players than the honourable New Zealand apart from England perhaps.

I have no problems with the likes of Pietersen and Archer migrating to further their careers. I feel privileged to have witnessed them play. It's no different from people that migrate to other countries for security, economical or development reasons.

Majority of those players came through the NZ system and learnt their cricket in NZ.

 

[Aman]

bro, tell me one thing

If this guy was in the west Indies would he had been getting this fame or recognition?

West indies has bowlers like Cotrell who were magnificent but who knows about him? There cricket has become a joke no onee cares about it.

IF these guys were playing for other teams theyw ould get better recognition.

Doesn't matter, he shouldn't be playing for England in the first place. It's absurd the ICC allow it.

How would you like it if Amir played for England if he got residency and became eligible for selection?

 

[kingusama92]

Thats like saying if you were born in Pakistan you are not allowed to move to Canada, even if you feel you can have better living standards. Players are only human, nobody should have the right to determine where a player plays. If there are better opportunities out there than they should take it.

As for your IPL comparison I do not see it. In IPL there are only four foreigners allowed and all of them are established cricketers who play international cricket. Whoever England picked did not have the same reputation as the players picked for IPL. Morgan played for a associates team. He himself wanted to play for England all his life.

The only way Morgan could play test cricket was to play for England. I am not sure I can blame the guy.

Someone like Usman Qadir or Fawad Khan wouldn't be able to play for a domestic team in Pakistan but can play in the shield and further their careers. Don't see why an engineer can move from Pakistan but not cricketers. If they receive Australian citizenship and get selected to play for Australia then that is their right.

Do you think a Canadian who was a landed immigrant should have lesser rights than someone born here?

This is sports.

The teams are limited and cricket is hardly growing. You can't have teams poaching talent because they have higher revenues, play more matches, or are offering an open spot.

You have to think about the greater good. Sacrificing IRL and WI for England is hardly reasonable.

I think there's a middle ground for both parties. To do this, I would like to see a "right of first refusal" clause initiated by the ICC. This means if Eoin Morgan plays with Ireland (at any level), the Irish board has the right to refuse his transfer to England. However, if they do refuse his transfer, he MUST play at the international level within 6-12 months. Otherwise, that refusal is ignored and he can move to England.

This ensures players that would never get picked like Usman Qadir can switch without looking bad.

 

[Major]

Doesn't matter, he shouldn't be playing for England in the first place. It's absurd the ICC allow it.

How would you like it if Amir played for England if he got residency and became eligible for selection?

i wouldnt mind.

THe fact that he didnt play for 3 years and is a legal resident of England should make him eligible.

 

[Major]

one of the best example is Imran Tahir.

If he had stayed back, he wouldnt had been selected

 

[Aman]

i wouldnt mind.

THe fact that he didnt play for 3 years and is a legal resident of England should make him eligible.

You say that, but when you see Amir in a blue jersey taking wickets against Pakistan I doubt you'll mind.

 

[Shazzam]

This is sports.

The teams are limited and cricket is hardly growing. You can't have teams poaching talent because they have higher revenues, play more matches, or are offering an open spot.

You have to think about the greater good. Sacrificing IRL and WI for England is hardly reasonable.

I think there's a middle ground for both parties. To do this, I would like to see a "right of first refusal" clause initiated by the ICC. This means if Eoin Morgan plays with Ireland (at any level), the Irish board has the right to refuse his transfer to England. However, if they do refuse his transfer, he MUST play at the international level within 6-12 months. Otherwise, that refusal is ignored and he can move to England.

This ensures players that would never get picked like Usman Qadir can switch without looking bad.

This is a sport thats also a business. Players are there to play for there families just like any other person who does 9 to 5 jobs. What you are asking for is very unrealistic. In a ideal world countries would think about expanding the sport by not taking the players who wanna play for them from other countries. This unfortunately is not a ideal world. Its a world full of dishonesty. You cannot stop basic human rights just cause a person was not born in the country he migrated to. Let the players play for whoever they want. Its not our right to judge them for doing so nor a cricket board for accepting players who wanna play for them.

 

[barah_admi]

no, i think your wrong.

in the world cup, i got to see the West Indies attack. It was marvelous.

Only thing was they did not have the set up like ENgland that could further polish them and get them better cricketing careers.

Even Kemar Roach would walk into the England side.

West Indies cricketers are unknown entities.

At what stage could a bowler of Roach's level walk into the English bowling line up for test in the last 15 years? Is he going to replace Flintoff, Jones, Jimmy, Broad, Swann, Monty...all match winners across the globe. I am just curious how he would have maintained a prolonged career in that time?

 

[Aman]

This is a sport thats also a business. Players are there to play for there families just like any other person who does 9 to 5 jobs. What you are asking for is very unrealistic. In a ideal world countries would think about expanding the sport by not taking the players who wanna play for them from other countries. This unfortunately is not a ideal world. Its a world full of dishonesty. You cannot stop basic human rights just cause a person was not born in the country he migrated to. Let the players play for whoever they want. Its not our right to judge them for doing so nor a cricket board for accepting players who wanna play for them.

I don't think anyone has issue with that scenario. Stokes was born in NZ and spent a lot of his childhood here, but he learnt most of his cricket in England. I don't have any issues with him playing for England, as England invested in him and developed him as a cricketer.

It's only really when a player represents another country or comes up through another system, that's what I have issue with.

 

[Major]

You say that, but when you see Amir in a blue jersey taking wickets against Pakistan I doubt you'll mind.

you are just assuming.

I wouldnt mind, but yes others would had made a big case of it. THey would had used the tag of fixer agianst him.

Sajid Mehmood was bashed when he performed well against us, and this is Amir who is liked by everyone here and played for us.

But, cricketers should have the option to switch and i think a 4-5 year period should be required

 

[Shazzam]

I don't think anyone has issue with that scenario. It's only really when a player represents another country or comes up through another system, that's what I have issue with.

So your issue is with Pietersen, Morgan specifically and Imran Tahir.

Morgan played for a associates team that did not reach test status till a couple of years ago. He is currently the top scorer for England in ODI’s. Single handingly changed the team to win the World Cup this year. Clearly his choice to play for England made perfect sense.

Pietersen was not being selected much in South Africa. He chose to board England for a better opportunity. He has a english mother so its not like he is not half English. The guy came to international cricket made a huge impact. He is in the highlight reels of Ashes 2005. His decision to choose England was clearly not a wrong one.

Imran Tahir had similar issue as Pietersen. He was toiling away in Pakistan domestic. Not being favored due to nepotism. Goes to South Africa, becomes there most decorated leg spinners.

 

[kingusama92]

This is a sport thats also a business. Players are there to play for there families just like any other person who does 9 to 5 jobs. What you are asking for is very unrealistic. In a ideal world countries would think about expanding the sport by not taking the players who wanna play for them from other countries. This unfortunately is not a ideal world. Its a world full of dishonesty. You cannot stop basic human rights just cause a person was not born in the country he migrated to. Let the players play for whoever they want. Its not our right to judge them for doing so nor a cricket board for accepting players who wanna play for them.

This is why a "right to first refusal" is necessary.

If a country wants to hold a player back, they make sure he plays at the international level. Otherwise, he's free to go.

Players taking up spots/resources and then ditching their teams is a huge negative. It's something the ICC has to work on.

 

[Shazzam]

This is why a "right to first refusal" is necessary.

If a country wants to hold a player back, they make sure he plays at the international level. Otherwise, he's free to go.

Players taking up spots/resources and then ditching their teams is a huge negative. It's something the ICC has to work on.

Or how about these nations spot talent better and nurture it so they don’t have to fall back on moving to another country. If South Africa, Ireland, and Pakistan spotted these players sooner. They would have no reason to go out of country. Cause in the end of the day cricket is a business. It does not have to look pretty as long as its effective.

 

[kingusama92]

Or how about these nations spot talent better and nurture it so they don’t have to fall back on moving to another country. If South Africa, Ireland, and Pakistan spotted these players sooner. They would have no reason to go out of country. Cause in the end of the day cricket is a business. It does not have to look pretty as long as its effective.

Ireland tried that with Morgan.

The ICC and its rules turned Ireland into a feeder team.

 

[big_gamer007]

[MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION],

It's the same as you or your forefathers, who migrated to NZ for better opportunities. You cannot blame an individual. The countries/boards losing the players need to think seriously about the reasons why skilled talent leave. Work internally to improve their own short-comings rather than blaming skilled people.

 

[Shazzam]

Ireland tried that with Morgan.

The ICC and its rules turned Ireland into a feeder team.

The situation with Ireland was different. They were a associate nation that had to earn there way to Test status. Morgan always wanted to play for England so his talent was being hindered by not playing for a Test playing nation. So in my eyes he made the right call. This decision granted him the success he’s got today. Now that Ireland is a Test playing nation they should have no reason to lose players like Morgan.

 

[Bilal Ahmad15]

So with the issue of players playing for a country they weren't born in or didn't live in etc., I think its fine if they play for a country they weren't born/ lived in (just one country). however, I think the problem comes when players play for one country and then they switch to another one (e.g Eoin Morgan playing for Ireland and then England) that shoudn't be happening.

And has Archer ever represented Windies? (Perhaps in U19 or A team?)

 

[Robert]

This is sports.

The teams are limited and cricket is hardly growing. You can't have teams poaching talent because they have higher revenues, play more matches, or are offering an open spot.

You have to think about the greater good. Sacrificing IRL and WI for England is hardly reasonable.

I think there's a middle ground for both parties. To do this, I would like to see a "right of first refusal" clause initiated by the ICC. This means if Eoin Morgan plays with Ireland (at any level), the Irish board has the right to refuse his transfer to England. However, if they do refuse his transfer, he MUST play at the international level within 6-12 months. Otherwise, that refusal is ignored and he can move to England.

This ensures players that would never get picked like Usman Qadir can switch without looking bad.

That scenario would be an authoritarian move by Ireland and probably count as illegal restraint of trade.

In the FA, it could be argued that the Championship, League 1 and 2 exist to serve the Premiership clubs. Might be harsh, but if a player gets good he won’t want to stay at Truro, he will want to move to Spurs.

 

[kingusama92]

That scenario would be an authoritarian move by Ireland and probably count as illegal restraint of trade.

In the FA, it could be argued that the Championship, League 1 and 2 exist to serve the Premiership clubs. Might be harsh, but if a player gets good he won’t want to stay at Truro, he will want to move to Spurs.

Highly unlikely.

FICA has been whinging about NOCs for years and nothing has happened. The ECB uses NOCs too.

The only time I can see legal issues popping up is if a team says no and never picks them. This is why the "right to first refusal" has to be multi-faceted.

Under my proposal, you can't just reject the application and never play the player. They would have to be in the team within 6 months or the rejection is deemed invalid.

 

[kingusama92]

The situation with Ireland was different. They were a associate nation that had to earn there way to Test status. Morgan always wanted to play for England so his talent was being hindered by not playing for a Test playing nation. So in my eyes he made the right call. This decision granted him the success he’s got today. Now that Ireland is a Test playing nation they should have no reason to lose players like Morgan.

That's what I'm saying.

These teams can try everything and new excuses will be found. WI has Test status and couldn't hold onto Archer. There's always a way to twist out of these situations because the ICC lets players do it.

Kudos to the players (I'd do the same) but this is a systemic problem.

 

[Aman]

[MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION],

It's the same as you or your forefathers, who migrated to NZ for better opportunities. You cannot blame an individual. The countries/boards losing the players need to think seriously about the reasons why skilled talent leave. Work internally to improve their own short-comings rather than blaming skilled people.

This is mostly going to hurt WI, Ireland, SA etc.

For NZ it's not a problem, most of our best talented athletes are playing Rugby or League.

 

[Aman]

So with the issue of players playing for a country they weren't born in or didn't live in etc., I think its fine if they play for a country they weren't born/ lived in (just one country). however, I think the problem comes when players play for one country and then they switch to another one (e.g Eoin Morgan playing for Ireland and then England) that shoudn't be happening.

And has Archer ever represented Windies? (Perhaps in U19 or A team?)

Archer played U19 cricket for WI I believe.

 

[HitWicket]

Doesn't matter, he shouldn't be playing for England in the first place. It's absurd the ICC allow it.

How would you like it if Amir played for England if he got residency and became eligible for selection?

It would take at least 6 years for Amir to become eligible to play for England, it's not going to happen.

 

[big_gamer007]

This is mostly going to hurt WI, Ireland, SA etc.

For NZ it's not a problem, most of our best talented athletes are playing Rugby or League.

You need to question the respective boards and governments in case of countries like (SA). An athlete should never be judged any differently than common engineers/doctors/scientists etc who leave their country to settle down in developed countries for better opportunities.

You can't blame Archer for his choice, unless you believe that everyone who leaves their homeland for greener pastures is a mercenary.

 

[Aman]

It would take at least 6 years for Amir to become eligible to play for England, it's not going to happen.

ECB changed their own rules to accommodate Archer.

 

[Aman]

You need to question the respective boards and governments in case of countries like (SA). An athlete should never be judged any differently than common engineers/doctors/scientists etc who leave their country to settle down in developed countries for better opportunities.

You can't blame Archer for his choice, unless you believe that everyone who leaves their homeland for greener pastures is a mercenary.

Was KP not treated like a mercenary?

 

[big_gamer007]

Was KP not treated like a mercenary?

And IMO that was wrong as well .

 

[Aman]

And IMO that was wrong as well .

Either way, this is silly.

What's stopping boards from sending out scouts to India, Pakistan, SA etc. to scout young players and promising them residency and international cricket with an easier pathway to the international team. The current ICC rules around eligibility allow it.

That to me would be mockery of international cricket.

 

[kingusama92]

It would take at least 6 years for Amir to become eligible to play for England, it's not going to happen.

3 years now.

The ECB changed its rules.

 

[HitWicket]

ECB changed their own rules to accommodate Archer.

3 years now.

The ECB changed its rules.

The ECB rules are still stricter than any other countries requiring 3 years of citizenship as well as residence. Amir doesn't have citizenship therefore would be required to do 3 years additional residence (would be 5 but I believe he has a British partner?) to get citizenship before he could begin qualifying.

 

[Salma_T]

Majority of those players came through the NZ system and learnt their cricket in NZ.

Grant Elliot, Luke Ronchi, roger twose, just name a few who learnt cricket elsewhere

 

[Salma_T]

Either way, this is silly.

What's stopping boards from sending out scouts to India, Pakistan, SA etc. to scout young players and promising them residency and international cricket with an easier pathway to the international team. The current ICC rules around eligibility allow it.

That to me would be mockery of international cricket.

All the players who have opted to play for England have an england or wales connection

 

[Hasan123]

[MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] you are a hypocrite. Jeet Ravel and Ish Sodhi are born in India and yet New Zealand have poached them. Stop crying.

 

[Aman]

[MENTION=132954]Aman[/MENTION] you are a hypocrite. Jeet Ravel and Ish Sodhi are born in India and yet New Zealand have poached them. Stop crying.

Sodhi and Ravali learnt most of their cricket in NZ, I don't think either of them were in the Indian system.

 

[RickyG]

Majority of those players came through the NZ system and learnt their cricket in NZ.

Well I still hope you're disgusted every time CDG and Neil Wagner play for New Zealand. New Zealand's run to the final is tainted forever for you I bet.

Wagner should have his stats removed.

Point I'm making is, it doesn't disgust you when your second best test bowler does well for New Zealand. It shouldn't disgust you when someone like Archer is living up to his potential. At least Archer's dad was still British. Wagner doesn't even have that.

 

[Aman]

Well I still hope you're disgusted every time CDG and Neil Wagner play for New Zealand. New Zealand's run to the final is tainted forever for you I bet.

Wagner should have his stats removed.

Point I'm making is, it doesn't disgust you when your second best test bowler does well for New Zealand. It shouldn't disgust you when someone like Archer is living up to his potential. At least Archer's dad was still British. Wagner doesn't even have that.

I never said we weren't guilty of it, still want the rules to be addressed to avoid more cases like it. I don't think Wagner represented SA at any level.

 

[RickyG]

I never said we weren't guilty of it, still want the rules to be addressed to avoid more cases like it. I don't think Wagner represented SA at any level.

It either disgusts you or it doesn't.

Wagner was a 12th man in two test matches for South Africa. Does that count as representing the country?

I think the rules are in place. If West Indies thought Archer was worth investing in, they would have. And Archer chose to wait 3 years before he was eligible rather than play for West Indies so that's the rule.

 

[Aman]

It either disgusts you or it doesn't.

Wagner was a 12th man in two test matches for South Africa. Does that count as representing the country?

I think the rules are in place. If West Indies thought Archer was worth investing in, they would have. And Archer chose to wait 3 years before he was eligible rather than play for West Indies so that's the rule.

Technically he never played for SA, either way I don't want more players like it.

Once you've represented one country, that's it. This isn't club cricket where you can jump from team to team, it's international cricket where you represent your country.

 

[RickyG]

Technically he never played for SA, either way I don't want more players like it.

Once you've played for one team, that's it.

I was almost going to rhetorically ask if you were going to use a technicality. But I thought you were better than that.

As 12th man, he took the fielded and stopped runs on behalf of South Africa. He featured on their official team sheet as 12th man. How is that not representing South Africa?

For the record, he did tour with South African Academy sides.

We can agree to disagree. But you're just being a hypocrite.

I feel lucky that I can watch a cricketer like Archer fulfill his potential than just be another footnote at best in the sorry tale of modern Windies cricket.

 

[Aman]

I was almost going to rhetorically ask if you were going to use a technicality. But I thought you were better than that.

As 12th man, he took the fielded and stopped runs on behalf of South Africa. He featured on their official team sheet as 12th man. How is that not representing South Africa?

For the record, he did tour with South African Academy sides.

We can agree to disagree. But you're just being a hypocrite.

I feel lucky that I can watch a cricketer like Archer fulfill his potential than just be another footnote at best in the sorry tale of modern Windies cricket.

Like I said, I don't want any of it period.

I wasn't aware of him playing for SA to that level. No nation hopping to get international caps. He came through the SA system so he shouldn't be eligible for NZ.

 

[Hasan123]

Sodhi and Ravali learnt most of their cricket in NZ, I don't think either of them were in the Indian system.

Still born in India. Crying about others team using players from other countries when NZ are just as guilty.

 

[Aman]

Still born in India. Crying about others team using players from other countries when NZ are just as guilty.

I literally said I was fine with that

It would be wrong to shut someone out from representing a country if it's been their home from a young age, it's not like moving to another country solely to progress their cricket career.

Stokes was born in NZ but left here in his teens, he came through the English system. Have zero issue with it because England were the one who invested in him and nurtured his talent.

 

[Hasan123]

I literally said I was fine with that

It would be wrong to shut someone out from representing a country if it's been their home from a young age, it's not like moving to another country solely to progress their cricket career.

Stokes was born in NZ but left here in his teens, he came through the English system. Have zero issue with it because England were the one who invested in him and nurtured his talent.

Archer has been playing county cricket too. Not as long as Stokes but your making out as though England took him from West Indies at age 24 and got him to play for England from there.

 

[Aman]

Archer has been playing county cricket too. Not as long as Stokes but your making out as though England took him from West Indies at age 24 and got him to play for England from there.

He represented WI, that's my issue.

As for Wagner, I didn't know he went that far. I thought he played to school level, because I've heard stories of him playing cricket with AB. That's the furthest I had heard about him going in SA.

 

[Hasan123]

He represented WI, that's my issue.

As for Wagner, I didn't know he went that far. I thought he played to school level, because I've heard stories of him playing cricket with AB. That's the furthest I had heard about him going in SA.

New Zealand are the last country who should be crying about England stealing players. You do the same thing.

 

[Aman]

New Zealand are the last country who should be crying about England stealing players. You do the same thing.

We never changed eligibility rules to facilitate it.

Yes, we've done it, but I want the ICC to change it to prevent further cases of it.

 

[Pakistanian]

We never changed eligibility rules to facilitate it.

Yes, we've done it, but I want the ICC to change it to prevent further cases of it.

England had the toughest eligibility rules, they just brought it in line with the ICC's policy - that isn't cheating. Australia even made their parliament pass a law so they could fast track Fawad Ahmed's citizenship application lol.

 

[Manunited18]

I agree with amaan in all this archer fiasco, hes a product of the West Indies system as was k.p. for south Africa as was trott for south Africa, in all this it's MONEY THAT TALKS

 

[Manunited18]

Once a player represents a country at any level he/she should not be able to change allegiance.

 

[MenInG]

He probably saw his worth and decided he could earn more in England. Nothing WI could about it.