Has Pakistan finally closed the gap between India and themselves since 2013?

[Rana]

I think it’s fair to say, Pakistan are finally back to being able to compete with India without getting rolled over just for fun.

The performance by the bowlers yesterday has proved that they are not as nervous as they have been since the 2013 away series win. Since Kohli and Sharma became stalwarts and the emergence of Bumrah, India were just too good for Pakistan. I can say that now, this isn’t quite the case.

Pakistani batting still has its flaws against Indian bowling, maybe this can be addressed.

 

[Rajdeep]

There are 3 more T20 games (potentially) to be played this year. Things will be more clear by then

 

[SamNJ]

Quality wise Pakistan are better T20 team at the moment and it will stay like that as long as Babar's peak years last.

 

[Villager6964]

Pakistan's batting is non-existent apart from babar and rizwan and in bowling Pakistan definitely has the upper hand.
India have got trundlers only and their spinners are average as well.
In bowling department Pakistan is much better but Pakistan's batting is just pathetic.

 

[Rana]

Pakistan's batting is non-existent apart from babar and rizwan and in bowling Pakistan definitely has the upper hand.
India have got trundlers only and their spinners are average as well.
In bowling department Pakistan is much better but Pakistan's batting is just pathetic.

The batting is hit and miss

I would t say they are just pathetic

 

[Shaddy86]

There was no pain in this loss, Pakistan bowlers played really well, put on a great fight and made us proud. It is clear that this bunch of players even with their limited ability have a lot of fight and heart. I'm very confident that in the next match India would be under more pressure than Pakistan. Great game yesterday for both set of fans and that's all we really want to see. I don't care that we lost, We played like a team that deserves respect and recognition.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

This is one of the weakest Pakistani T20I side I have seen. They lack 6th or 7th bowling options. Their middle order is non existent. They have not found any replacements for guys like Malik and Hafeez. Still they gave almost full strength India a tough fight.

 

[Inswing]

This is one of the weakest Pakistani T20I side I have seen. They lack 6th or 7th bowling options. Their middle order is non existent. They have not found any replacements for guys like Malik and Hafeez. Still they gave almost full strength India a tough fight.

Well I see Indians commenting that they beat us with their A side.

 

[Titan24]

In LOIs surely the gap has really reduced and is close now especially if we consider that 2015 with the current difference mainly being the tactical nuisance and the experience which current Indian side still has more but, Pak has players that have matured pretty well recently so expecting these things to close the gap further going forward. Still the middle order batting of Pakistan leaves a lot to be desired and Indian has not only frontline options but, backups as well across the departments. So this is something that Pak really needs to improve.

In test cricket though the gap significant I believe especially with Pak having lack of quality test spinners and not inducing the young batters to take over from the old lot to support Babar. Pace bowling will get better with more games under their belt.

 

[Rana]

One thing I have realised about trends between India and Pakistan rivalries…

If you are a dominant player against Pakistan or India, this will be something that you will consistently do for most part of your career.

For example, Yuvraj Singh has been a very dominant player against Pakistan for the most part of his career. Kohli is continuing that trend for himself and now Pandya is being handed the baton in this sense. Bowling wise, Bhuvaneshwar has always been a top performer against Pakistan. We are now hoping for the likes of Shaheen and Naseem to dominate and have a psychological edge over Indian batters.

The side aspect of this is that there are also players who may be dominant against other teams in the world by may make a habit of not turning up and performing in this fixture. KL Rahul and Surya Kumar are currently guilty of this. Similarly, it is fair to say that Babar Azam has not found Indian bowling as easy considering he has a stellar batting average in this format and others.

It really is a clash of pressure. Weird things happen.

 

[pratiktc]

Test will be the home world cup in 2023.
All Asian sides except Afg will have minimum semifinal expectations whereas India will be expected to win.

If Pak can reach final or better, then they can say there is a future for this team. Otherwise this is just a side with only 2 matchwinners and a handful of steady support players.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

The gap has certainly closed in recent years. Not just 2013. I'd say from 2006-2019 , India were comfortably the better white ball side .

What was particularly impressive was the spot on fielding which was definitely better than ours - we have chahal.
Also, the spinners Shadab and Nawaz looked more threatening than our spinners to be honest.

I don't agree with the assessment by many that Indian bowlers are trundlers and, hence, not as impressive as the Pakistani bowlers .

Only Naseem had an impact. Indian pace attack, as a unit, performed much better, even if they were slower than their counterparts.

 

[Bewal Express]

The failure to develop a half decent middle order is now showing. The problem is that when you allow average players like Hafeez and Malik to be your mainstays for a decade, you don't go anywhere. In batting the gap is around 20 runs and that is too much in 20 overs. In bowling we are close to parity and if our guys stay fit, we will have the edge.

 

[Rana]

The failure to develop a half decent middle order is now showing. The problem is that when you allow average players like Hafeez and Malik to be your mainstays for a decade, you don't go anywhere. In batting the gap is around 20 runs and that is too much in 20 overs. In bowling we are close to parity and if our guys stay fit, we will have the edge.

You are right. Malik was a mainstay for the middle order against India since 2013

Pakistan were absolute garbage against India during that period. Malik was good but he was hardly an impact or match winner against India in our most desperate times. Yuvraj and Dhoni were always far superior than him and Hafeez as veterans

 

[Stumper]

Well there are 3 to 4 more matches to go we can check after that, for now i think India was casual the tail of Dahani and Rauf wagged around 20+ runs, which won't be the case in most matches. the other thing is India was playing Naseem for the first time along with most of your bowling, They will be prepared for the next time. the Gag is still there, your bowlers had a novelty factor of new which will not be there from next time.

 

[Rana]

Well there are 3 to 4 more matches to go we can check after that, for now i think India was casual the tail of Dahani and Rauf wagged around 20+ runs, which won't be the case in most matches. the other thing is India was playing Naseem for the first time along with most of your bowling, They will be prepared for the next time. the Gag is still there, your bowlers had a novelty factor of new which will not be there from next time.

It works both ways

Pakistan won’t gift Hardik 4 wickets on the short ball as if it’s Brett Lee

 

[Stumper]

It works both ways

Pakistan won’t gift Hardik 4 wickets on the short ball as if it’s Brett Lee

he got three, and pakistan has played hardik a lot of times they are aware of his bowling style.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

It works both ways

Pakistan won’t gift Hardik 4 wickets on the short ball as if it’s Brett Lee

The way Hardik has been bowling recently, he has owned much more destructive batsmen like Livingston let alone Pakistani batsmen .

 

[Titan24]

Only Naseem had an impact. Indian pace attack, as a unit, performed much better, even if they were slower than their counterparts.

Despite lack of pace most of the Indian pacers who get selected know their game plan, strengths/weaknesses, understanding of field etc. that presence of mind is really important in any sport. Pandya covered with that pace aspect as well with some really quick bouncers.

Naseem is a quality young talent to have or be it world renowned pacers currently in Shaheen, Bumrah, Boult, Starc , Cummins etc. but you cant plan for these kind of quality to come as sometimes you might not have that quality of bowler. However, what you can control is the aspect of the game sense, basic understanding of requirements and what is expected of you and how you practice and implement that. What Indian pacers in my opinion have really improved in last decade is their execution, basic nuisance of tactics and understanding of the game, that is why more often than not whoever, comes in the national team that player brings in some basic standard.

 

[IccKnockout]

There is no gap in t20 cricket.
There are no real favorites in t20 cricket.
Any team can beat any team.

 

[Rana]

The way Hardik has been bowling recently, he has owned much more destructive batsmen like Livingston let alone Pakistani batsmen .

Yes but they won’t just let him surprise them like this


If India were surprised by Dahani and Naseem novelty factor, so were Pakistan by Hardik’s sharp short balls.

 

[Rana]

There is no gap in t20 cricket.
There are no real favorites in t20 cricket.
Any team can beat any team.

Oh yes that’s why the H2H between Pakistan and Zimbabwe is very even?

 

[Titan24]

Well there are 3 to 4 more matches to go we can check after that, for now i think India was casual the tail of Dahani and Rauf wagged around 20+ runs, which won't be the case in most matches. the other thing is India was playing Naseem for the first time along with most of your bowling, They will be prepared for the next time. the Gag is still there, your bowlers had a novelty factor of new which will not be there from next time.

Its not just about the result but, about the general quality of the team.

Check the 2015 WC lineup of Pak and compare it with the current one going around (The full strength when everyone is fit), you will see much more impact players overall. India still gets and edge as they are a much more experienced unit overall with Bhuvi alone having more LOI experience than entire Pakistan bowling unit and Virat or Rohit alone having more LOIs then entire Pak team under their belt. Plays a big role on the field, in the dressing room and obviously in their respective traits. As the gap of development of quality players keeps shrinking with more experience and maturity the gap would be negligible at best.

 

[Rajdeep]

This is one of the weakest Pakistani T20I side I have seen. They lack 6th or 7th bowling options. Their middle order is non existent. They have not found any replacements for guys like Malik and Hafeez. Still they gave almost full strength India a tough fight.

This is not India's full strength side from bowling perspective. Avesh Khan and Arshdeep are India's back up bowlers. Both of them wont play in world cup.

 

[IccKnockout]

[MENTION=2016]Rana[/MENTION]

No but it is the reason why Pakistan were bundled out for 99 vs zim and Other teams also suffer shock defeats and also why Afghan thrashed SL.

Anyway I was talking about disparity between the top 8 teams.
There is nothing in it
It's common sense.
Shorter the format better the competition as minnows become very dangerous

In test format you can see clear difference between top teams. Not in t20i

 

[Shafi]

A close match and all this fake satisfaction threads. We are playing only 2 batsmen (Babar &Rizwan) instead of 5 batsmen. We were lucky to score 147 due to some good slogs of Rauf, Dhani and Ifti. The quality gap is huge in batting, fitness and fielding wise. Bowling is ok.

 

[IccKnockout]

A close match and all this fake satisfaction threads. We are playing only 2 batsmen (Babar &Rizwan) instead of 5 batsmen. We were lucky to score 147 due to some good slogs of Rauf, Dhani and Ifti. The quality gap is huge in batting, fitness and fielding wise. Bowling is ok.

You are right.
I am not saying it because India won.
But you can win all the hearts, lungs and kidneys.. I will always take the win.
All these moral victory stuff is laughable. Be it Pakistan or India .

 

[Rana]

You are right.
I am not saying it because India won.
But you can win all the hearts, lungs and kidneys.. I will always take the win.
All these moral victory stuff is laughable. Be it Pakistan or India .

Who claimed it was a moral victory?

It’s about being able to compete. Pakistan have demonstrated in the past 10 months that they can compete against India, unlike recently before the 2021 World Cup

 

[IccKnockout]

Who claimed it was a moral victory?

It’s about being able to compete. Pakistan has demonstrated in the past 10 months that they can compete against India, unlike recently before the 2021 World Cup

Are you not seeing the posts on this forum since yesterday?
Pakistan was always a great danger in t20 games against India. It's another matter they have lost most but that's the nature of the format. They could and will always compete in this format. Games start 50-50.

 

[Rana]

Are you not seeing the posts on this forum since yesterday?
Pakistan was always a great danger in t20 games against India. It's another matter they have lost most but that's the nature of the format. They could and will always compete in this format. Games start 50-50.

Against India since 2013, Pakistan have not even been able to show 50-50. That’s the whole point of this thread

 

[Bewal Express]

There is no gap in t20 cricket.
There are no real favorites in t20 cricket.
Any team can beat any team.

Based on one game your theory is correct but based on probability there is a gap

 

[IccKnockout]

As far as results are concerned. Yes
But any games between the top 6-7 countries in t20 format start off on 50-50 basis IMO.
A WI team could be all out for 60 but smash 250 the next day.

In tests, more often you can predict who's gonna win the series based on the teams. Can't do it in t20. Will never work out that day. Hence it's a gambler's nightmare

 

[Local.Dada]

There isn’t much gap in T20 between the top 5-6 teams. Anyone can beat anyone.

For example a guy like Dahani batting at no.11 can hit a couple of freak 6’s and change the game, bowlers can give it all in the first 2 overs and run out of steam etc. can’t analyze much from such formats.

Having said that Pakistan definitely have a lot of exciting T20 players but I will look at the longer formats where the gap is still huge.

 

[Rana]

There isn’t much gap in T20 between the top 5-6 teams. Anyone can beat anyone.

For example a guy like Dahani batting at no.11 can hit a couple of freak 6’s and change the game, bowlers can give it all in the first 2 overs and run out of steam etc. can’t analyze much from such formats.

Having said that Pakistan definitely have a lot of exciting T20 players but I will look at the longer formats where the gap is still huge.

What huge gap in the long format?

Pakistan has 3 ODI bats who average 50. Harris Sohail will return at some point and he is in the same mould as their top 3 in terms of impact and performance

Pakistan are slowly building a world class white ball bowling attack.

Shaheen
Naseem
Shadab
Rauf
Dahani
Nawaz

Please explain what massive gap you are referring to quality wise in the longer formats?

 

[Local.Dada]

What huge gap in the long format?

Pakistan has 3 ODI bats who average 50. Harris Sohail will return at some point and he is in the same mould as their top 3 in terms of impact and performance

Pakistan are slowly building a world class white ball bowling attack.

Shaheen
Naseem
Shadab
Rauf
Dahani
Nawaz

Please explain what massive gap you are referring to quality wise in the longer formats?

India is no.2 in tests. Pak is no.6.

 

[IccKnockout]

What huge gap in the long format?

Pakistan has 3 ODI bats who average 50. Harris Sohail will return at some point and he is in the same mould as their top 3 in terms of impact and performance

Pakistan are slowly building a world class white ball bowling attack.

Shaheen
Naseem
Shadab
Rauf
Dahani
Nawaz

Please explain what massive gap you are referring to quality wise in the longer formats?

Pretty sure he was talking about test.
India are much ahead in test cricket than Pakistan.
ODIs yes it's 50-50

 

[Local.Dada]

Pretty sure he was talking about test.
India are much ahead in test cricket than Pakistan.
ODIs yes it's 50-50

T20s is 50-50, ODIs with Indias full strength side it is 65-35. Remember india mostly plays B sides in ODIs while Pak plays full strength against Netherlands/ Ireland as well.

 

[Rana]

India is no.2 in tests. Pak is no.6.

Right

So we have been playing Tests with each other in the last 15 years? How will we possibly know that the gap is closed especially if we haven’t played each other since 2007? Also, it seems like Indian’s are desperate to bring in Test and ODI in this thread

 

[Shafi]

Who claimed it was a moral victory?

It’s about being able to compete. Pakistan have demonstrated in the past 10 months that they can compete against India, unlike recently before the 2021 World Cup

Just wait for next game. If India crush us what will be your opinion? Do you expect better performance from Ifti, Khusdil, Asif, Fakhar in next match? This team is similar level of associate if both Babar and Rizwan fail.

 

[Ashmal]

Yes there isn't as much gulf between India & Pakistan now in LOIs as it was during 2013-18 period.

Pakistan has improved their game.

But, another big reason is that the Indian LOI batting has regressed in last 2-3 years....they are nowhere as formidable as they were between 2014-18 period

 

[ftbno1]

Pakistan batting has improved as they have Babar.
Indian bowling is best in the world
Tier 1
Bumrah
Shami
Bhuvneshwar
Siraj
Umesh
Tier 2
Shardul
Arshdeep
Avesh
Hardik
Harshal Patel
Tier 3
Mohsin
Kuldeep Sen
Umran Malik
Khaleel
Karthik Tyagi
The thing is in 2011 we would have given anything to get any one of the above bowlers to support Zak.
The real issue with India is we have not been able to replace Fab 4 Or Yuvi-Dhoni-Raina in LOI.

 

[Rana]

Just wait for next game. If India crush us what will be your opinion? Do you expect better performance from Ifti, Khusdil, Asif, Fakhar in next match? This team is similar level of associate if both Babar and Rizwan fail.

Relax

They both failed and Pakistan still played well. The toss is a major factor in Dubai, it’s very hard to defend a total unless it’s not above 180 on that venue

 

[Local.Dada]

On topic though with emergence of Babar Azam and Afridi Pak has definitely improved. I agree with that sentiment of the thread that this Pak team has improved from a decade ago.

 

[IccKnockout]

Right

So we have been playing Tests with each other in the last 15 years? How will we possibly know that the gap is closed especially if we haven’t played each other since 2007? Also, it seems like Indian’s are desperate to bring in Test and ODI in this thread

What do you mean? The opening post never said this is about T20s alone. You said 2013 series win in INDIA which was the ODI format.
Be consistent.

 

[Rana]

What do you mean? The opening post never said this is about T20s alone.

Oh yes

MOU

 

[IccKnockout]

Oh yes

MOU

You mentioned Paks's away series win in India in 2013.
That was ODI.
So it's canon.

 

[Ashmal]

Are you not seeing the posts on this forum since yesterday?
Pakistan was always a great danger in t20 games against India. It's another matter they have lost most but that's the nature of the format. They could and will always compete in this format. Games start 50-50.

2012 onwards Pakistan v India T20 games have mostly been one-sided victory for India with Pakistan not even competing.

But, the last 2 games vs India have shown that Pakistan have improved.....we will know more in upcoming games

 

[Shafi]

There isn’t much gap in T20 between the top 5-6 teams. Anyone can beat anyone.

For example a guy like Dahani batting at no.11 can hit a couple of freak 6’s and change the game, bowlers can give it all in the first 2 overs and run out of steam etc. can’t analyze much from such formats.

Having said that Pakistan definitely have a lot of exciting T20 players but I will look at the longer formats where the gap is still huge.

Really!!!! Our actual score is 42 if you deduct (Rizwan 43, Ifti 28, Rauf 13 and Dhani 16 and mr. extra 5). Pathetic and bunch of timid cats. Even team like Ireland/Holland can score more than that.

 

[Local.Dada]

Oh yes

MOU

Wrong premise. Even Ireland ran India close or Zim upset Pak in this format. T20 lottery format is not the right benchmark anyways. Having said that in T20 there is not much of a gap between any top 5-6 teams. England C side beat Pak but India has been smashing England in England in T20. India beat Aus in Aus while Pak got whitewashed. All this happened in the last 2 yrs. I think you are still stuck in the WT20 opening game which Pakistan won deservingly so.

 

[Local.Dada]

Really!!!! Our actual score is 42 if you deduct (Rizwan 43, Ifti 28, Rauf 13 and Dhani 16 and mr. extra 5). Pathetic and bunch of timid cats. Even team like Ireland/Holland can score more than that.

I am talking about impact. Rizwan’s 40 was useless but it was Dahani’s hits that changed the momentum a bit.

Similarly Nawaz took wickets but it was both of struggling bats looking to slog but a half-fit but motivated Naseem’s 2 wickets had an impact.

T20 is all about a couple of players making a quick impact.

You can never judge from such format.

Right now there isn’t a T20 team that is a notch above others. The top 5-6 teams will beat each other every other day. Can’t judge the gap in this format unless people are thinking Pakistan used to be at Bangladesh, Zim level in T20 10 yrs back.

 

[Mesozoic]

It's T20.

The so called "big gap" never existed between the two sides in this format and will most likely never will. It's just the nature of this format. Pakistan were overall a better 20 overs side than India during the 2010-2014 phase but ended up losing 3 out of 4 games to us in that period.

As others have mentioned above, any of the top 7 sides (including WI too, when at full strength) can beat any other side on a regular basis. Heck, even Afghanistan can be handful against all the SENA sides in Asian conditions.

 

[Local.Dada]

It's T20.

The so called "big gap" never existed between the two sides in this format and will most likely never will. It's just the nature of this format. Pakistan were overall a better 20 overs side than India during the 2010-2014 phase but ended up losing 3 out of 4 games to us in that period.

As others have mentioned above, any of the top 7 sides (including WI too, when at full strength) can beat any other side regularly. Heck, even Afghanistan can be handful against all the SENA sides in Asian conditions.

Bangladesh has been clean sweeping teams in T20
On their home turf. What gap are they closing lol

 

[Ashmal]

It's T20.

The so called "big gap" never existed between the two sides in this format and will most likely never will. It's just the nature of this format. Pakistan were overall a better 20 overs side than India during the 2010-2014 phase but ended up losing 3 out of 4 games to us in that period.

As others have mentioned above, any of the top 7 sides (including WI too, when at full strength) can beat any other side on a regular basis. Heck, even Afghanistan can be handful against all the SENA sides in Asian conditions.

Go and see the scorecards of most Ind vs Pak T20 games between 2012-18.

There's a pattern...one-sided victory for India with Pakistan not even showing up.

And it's not that Pakistan were a poor T20 side then but for some reason they couldn't even compete in those matches against India.

But in the last 2 games vs India, Pakistan have shown grit and fighting ability.

 

[Rana]

Go and see the scorecards of most Ind vs Pak T20 games between 2012-18.

There's a pattern...one-sided victory for India with Pakistan not even showing up.

And it's not that Pakistan were a poor T20 side then but for some reason they couldn't even compete in those matches against India.

But in the last 2 games vs India, Pakistan have shown grit and fighting ability.

This.

Those crying about Pakistan’s batting yesterday. If the batsmen showed up, it would have been a 1 sided game in favour of Pakistan. No way India were chasing 170+ on that wicket

 

[Local.Dada]

Go and see the scorecards of most Ind vs Pak T20 games between 2012-18.

There's a pattern...one-sided victory for India with Pakistan not even showing up.

And it's not that Pakistan were a poor T20 side then but for some reason they couldn't even compete in those matches against India.

But in the last 2 games vs India, Pakistan have shown grit and fighting ability.

I think you guys are underrating Pak T20 side like some minnows. Didn’t Pak used to clean sweep teams in UAE under Sarfaraz?

Guess where the last 2 Ind vs Pak games happened.

If india plays a home loi series vs Bangladesh I do expect them to pull of some upsets too.

The starting premise is wrong, Pak is always a good T20 side.

I would see how Pak has been performing in SENA countries rather than India where the sample size is too less.

 

[Mesozoic]

Go and see the scorecards of most Ind vs Pak T20 games between 2012-18.

There's a pattern...one-sided victory for India with Pakistan not even showing up.

And it's not that Pakistan were a poor T20 side then but for some reason they couldn't even compete in those matches against India.

But in the last 2 games vs India, Pakistan have shown grit and fighting ability.

Pakistan competed pretty well in the 2012 bilateral series and both games in that series were nail-biters. Even in 2016 (Asia cup and WT20), Pak made India sweat in low scoring affairs. Not thrillers but in no way one sided thrashings either.

But one factor that is getting ignored here is the fact that these two last games were played in the UAE, where Pakistan played most of their cricket in the past decade. India played a grand total of zero there. Pak has the ideal T20 team for UAE conditions and should have won the WT20 last year.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Pakistan has definitely closed the gap.

Pak bowling has dominated Indian batting. The only thing that separates them is how Pak batting fares against Indian bowling. Emergence of Babar has put Pak batting on a less shakier ground. But if he fails, the rest are not up to the mark. Fakhar and Rizwan can win matches every now and then. But not very reliable. The rest of Pak batting is mediocre at best.

If Indian batting plays up to their potential against Pakistan, then India will easily win most of the games.

 

[Mesozoic]

Decline of India's top3 in the last couple of years has created a false impression that India has somehow declined in ODIs and the "gap" is getting closed.

But people need to realize that we now have an absolute killer middle order with SKY, Pant, Pandya and Jadeja. Even Iyer is a solid bat. If atleast two of Dhawan/Rohit/Kohli/Rahul regain form to an extent (or make way for a superior option in Gill), we will have a monstrous batting lineup for ODIs.

 

[ethan hunt]

There is no gap in white ball cricket between the two sides. India had everything go their way and yet scrapped to a win.

In test cricket , Pakistan still has a lot of catching up to do, although the two nations wont play any test cricket in the near future.

 

[Ashmal]

Pakistan competed pretty well in the 2012 bilateral series and both games in that series were nail-biters. Even in 2016 (Asia cup and WT20), Pak made India sweat in low scoring affairs. Not thrillers but in no way one sided thrashings either.

But one factor that is getting ignored here is the fact that these two last games were played in the UAE, where Pakistan played most of their cricket in the past decade. India played a grand total of zero there. Pak has the ideal T20 team for UAE conditions and should have won the WT20 last year.

In 2016 Asia Cup & T20 WC Pakistan put up 85 & 118 respectively....that's not really competitive.
And let's not forget 2012 & 2014 T20 WC games.


And this UAE venue is a poor excuse....all Indian players have played multiple IPL seasons in UAE....so don't make it sound as if Dubai is some unknown territory for India.

 

[Mesozoic]

In 2016 Asia Cup & T20 WC Pakistan put up 85 & 118 respectively....that's not really competitive.
And let's not forget 2012 & 2014 T20 WC games.

India were 8/3 chasing 85 and 20/3 chasing 119. Not exactly one sided as you claimed.

And this UAE venue is a poor excuse....all Indian players have played multiple IPL seasons in UAE....so don't make it sound as if Dubai is some unknown territory for India.

Playing IPL in different teams with different combinations and requirements is a whole different story from playing together for the national side. Especially in a country where you've played zero T20is as a team. Pakistan had and still has a clear 'home' advantage of playing in the UAE. You just can't deny that.

 

[Local.Dada]

In 2016 Asia Cup & T20 WC Pakistan put up 85 & 118 respectively....that's not really competitive.
And let's not forget 2012 & 2014 T20 WC games.


And this UAE venue is a poor excuse....all Indian players have played multiple IPL seasons in UAE....so don't make it sound as if Dubai is some unknown territory for India.

Playing IPL once in a while is not the same as playing in the venue for a decade as your home ground. If IPL argument is made than most Aussies and WI players play in it too but they still struggle and while Aussies did win the WT20 last time, they were hardly the top favorites. They were behind Ind,Pak and even England.

 

[Sachin136]

Right

So we have been playing Tests with each other in the last 15 years? How will we possibly know that the gap is closed especially if we haven’t played each other since 2007? Also, it seems like Indian’s are desperate to bring in Test and ODI in this thread

You can tell how big the gap is by looking at their performances against other teams. Pakistan loses a test series at home against Australia while India beats them in Austalia.

 

[JaDed]

Last 2 years have been very frustrating as an Indian cricket LoI fan for me personally.

The infighting, lack of form and fitness, vision, atrocious fielding have all contributed to a not so great ICT.

 

[ask_analyse_act]

Pakistan's batting is non-existent apart from babar and rizwan and in bowling Pakistan definitely has the upper hand.
India have got trundlers only and their spinners are average as well.
In bowling department Pakistan is much better but Pakistan's batting is just pathetic.

Because they only play 3 batsmen, rest bits and pieces only

They are playing Asif ali just to hit 1 six per match

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

This is a funny thread. My fellow indian fans have more confidence in Pakistan team than our own team.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

India were 8/3 chasing 85 and 20/3 chasing 119. Not exactly one sided as you claimed.




Playing IPL in different teams with different combinations and requirements is a whole different story from playing together for the national side. Especially in a country where you've played zero T20is as a team. Pakistan had and still has a clear 'home' advantage of playing in the UAE. You just can't deny that.

Look who is talking. Did you not think about this when you made a bold statement that any IPL team can beat any Asian national team in T20 cricket?

 

[ElRaja]

indias bowling without bumrah is not scary, hardik bowled well, I think pak got caught out by his pace, I at least remembered him as a low 130s kinda pace bowler. would make more sense to treat him with more respect and target some of the new pacers.

indias batsmen however are much more measured, its babar or bust for Pakistan. hopefully the next season or two can find at least two t20 batsman for pak, but as it is Pakistan will not consistently win until they find two semi-consistent complete hitters.

 

[austerlitz]

Yes and no.Pakistan is only a competitive t20 side.It cant compete in ODI and test format.But it has always been a dangerous t20 side for several years.Most pakistani faaast bowlers who people are going gaga about are too unfit to bowl long spells which matter in longer formats.4 overs is easy.
What has happened is indian team is no longer at its peakdue to age,rohit and kohli are in decline.Dhawan is gone.Replacements haven't settled in or found yet.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

Yes and no.Pakistan is only a competitive t20 side.It cant compete in ODI and test format.But it has always been a dangerous t20 side for several years.Most pakistani faaast bowlers who people are going gaga about are too unfit to bowl long spells which matter in longer formats.4 overs is easy.
What has happened is indian team is no longer at its peakdue to age,rohit and kohli are in decline.Dhawan is gone.Replacements haven't settled in or found yet.

Yeah just like Australia wasn't at its peak when India beat them? unter

Pakistan have also not found replacements of Hafeez, Malik, Gul and Ajmal.

 

[JaDed]

Yeah just like Australia wasn't at its peak when India beat them? unter

Pakistan have also not found replacements of Hafeez, Malik, Gul and Ajmal.

Yes but they are better with Babar ,Rizwan, Fakhar and Shaheen and now Naseem.

The only issue is their middle order but this unit plays as a team.

Also op did mention since 2013..so the comparison should be India 2013-2022 to Pak 2013-2022.
Our good time was definitely 2009-2019.. been so-so after that.

This is easily a much better overall PCT unit (exception being the in form CT 2017 team).

 

[Dingolfy]

This.

Those crying about Pakistan’s batting yesterday. If the batsmen showed up, it would have been a 1 sided game in favour of Pakistan. No way India were chasing 170+ on that wicket

I would say if Pakistani batsmen could score 170 plus then definitely Indians would be able chase as they have more experience and firepower.
Pakistan always had great bowling in T20Is against India. They gave us trouble even defending paltry scores. The problem was with your batsmen which I believe still remains. Earlier you had Hafeez and Malik in the middle order now you don’t have any one.
And bigger gap still remains in case of ODI. You gave us a massive phainta in 2017 champions trophy but lost all the 3 games after that without giving much fight.

 

[Nasty Naz]

This is one of the weakest Pakistani T20I side I have seen. They lack 6th or 7th bowling options. Their middle order is non existent. They have not found any replacements for guys like Malik and Hafeez. Still they gave almost full strength India a tough fight.

How do people say such nonsense with a straight face. You must not remember the 2016 Asia Cup & WC disaster or bunch of poor teams prior.

As consistent as teams can be in T20, this has been one of the most consistent teams last few years with regular high scores and chasing multiple 200+ totals. Middle order needs work without a doubt but the strength of this team is the top order. Sometimes, they don't fire and we see the result we saw but more often than not, they fire and fire quite well.

This team needs huge work against short balls though. We've often seen them get bounced of games and they'll have to get used to it before the WC in Australia.

As to the gap closing vs India - sure, they are improving and inching towards the gap but it still remains quite a bit. India overall, is a much more consistent & dangerous team than Pakistan in T20's & ODI's. Pakistan are getting better in LOI but gap in Tests remains huge however.

 

[shamaan]

We will find out how big the gap is by the end of the tournament.

 

[mesmerizer85]

Pak team is missing the X-Factor or match winner like a Razzaq/Afridi which India has in Pandya...Asif Ali showed some spark in last T20 WC , that too against Afg/NZ but again need someone to perform against India too..

 

[giri26]

I think T20 is a format where Pakistan can consistently challenge India due to their bowling ability and with their attack even 150 can be made difficult to chase. In ODIs and Tests, due to the fact that Pakistan do not make many huge totals mean that teams like India always have a chance to ride good spells to attack lesser bowlers. They will have time to do that.

Please don't talk about the Indian bowling attack surprising Pakistan. If the last decade or so has taught something to us is that despite what Pakistan fans think of Indian bowlers, the latter have always done well. The CT17 and WT20 2021 were the only two times in the last 5 years where Pakistan have been able to get on top of Indian bowling attack and that is a fact. Bhuvneshwar Kumar has always done well against Pakistan, he averages 23 in ODIs at an economy rate of 4.14 and 14 in T20Is at an economy rate of 7. So what he did yesterday wasn't surprising. Hardik also has done well against Pakistan in T20Is in the past, so it is not new. Arshdeep & Avesh Khan are new and at least the former is a very talented left arm pacer who I think will play a lot for India in LOIs.

There will at least be 2 more games in the upcoming 2 months (I am not going to assume that India or Pakistan will make it to the finals for sure) between the two sides and that will tell us something. Even if India loses any of these games, I will not be too worried about it as T20 is that kind of format.

 

[Farabi]

The failure to develop a half decent middle order is now showing. The problem is that when you allow average players like Hafeez and Malik to be your mainstays for a decade, you don't go anywhere. In batting the gap is around 20 runs and that is too much in 20 overs. In bowling we are close to parity and if our guys stay fit, we will have the edge.

Love to follow your comments, always have great insight.
I tend to agree that Hafeez and Malik were average.Who do you think has potential to develop in middle order in current options?

 

[MP2011]

Quality wise Pakistan are better T20 team at the moment and it will stay like that as long as Babar's peak years last.

Quality wise, they are better and they still lost all games against us but that last year's WT20 game?

 

[MP2011]

As for closing the gap, its T20 format. Any team can beat any other team. If anything Pak lost a great chance to beat us in that game.

 

[Slim]

The gap has certainly closed in recent years. Not just 2013. I'd say from 2006-2019 , India were comfortably the better white ball side .

What was particularly impressive was the spot on fielding which was definitely better than ours - we have chahal.
Also, the spinners Shadab and Nawaz looked more threatening than our spinners to be honest.

I don't agree with the assessment by many that Indian bowlers are trundlers and, hence, not as impressive as the Pakistani bowlers .

Only Naseem had an impact. Indian pace attack, as a unit, performed much better, even if they were slower than their counterparts.

Good observations, the only thing i would disagree is your 2006-2019. I would say India has only been comfortably better from 2013 till 2019. That's still 7 years, so well done!

This new generation of Pakistani players is on totally another level mentally and it is the first for a Pakistani team to be probably even marginally mentally stronger than India as a unit.

I also see a lot of respect between the players that was i feel missing or somewhat lacking in the 2010s. Indians went overboard and showed all the traits of "new money" where they insulted pakistani cricketers on their shows, twitter and made all sorts of comments. This has definitely mellowed down. The current batch seems to have professional respect for each other and i think this has a lot to do with Pakistan cricket improving qualitatively and evidently in the shape of world rankers like Babar, Rizwan and Shaheen.

I like this new competitive rivalry that was missing between 2013 - 2019.