Has Pakistan finally lost the Kashmir Cause?

[Major]

Pakistan's economy is at an all time low. India has drawn up new borders and removed the special status it once gave to Jammu and Kashmir. The reason why India and Pakistan dont have normal relations is because of Kashmir. Both countries lay claim on the whole Kashmir, Jammu and Baltistan area.

While India lays claim and has done well economically. Pakistan has faced more problems on Kashmir politically. The army gets to take a larger cut in the budget under the name of Kashmir cause, and the army also enjoys its influence on our politics due to the Kashmir cause.

There are rumors that the army doesnt want the Kashmir issue to be solved, as if it does get solved, the army losses its influence and grip over the control of Pakistan and its governance.

Pakistan is not gonna take Kashmir from India, that is only possible if India's economy collapses and than Pakistan takes advantage of that. Meanwhile, Pakistan's own economy is collapsing and India could take advantage of this.

Also, if by some miracle we do get whole Kashmir and Jammu, Pakistan has promised some land to China, and most likely would get Kargil, Siachen and some areas of Ladekh. This would result in an increase in the population and plus there will be a hindu population that Pakistan wont be able to give rights to. Plus, Pakistan would not be giving independence to Kashmiris, they will make them part of Pakistan as we have invested in tourism in the Pakistan administrated Kashmir and Baltistan.

India is a major trading power, and Pakistan needs to be trading with the neighbor to help improve its own economy.

Your thoughts?

Kashmir is a lost cause, only doing further damage on Pakistan where we Army takes the front row seat

 

[Hitman]

Pakistani people are too emotional when it comes to Kashmir. We have always been satisfied with our side of Kashmir historically, although some politicians have spoken about PoK in the last few years. The same cannot be said regarding Pakistan, they are simply obsessed with our side of Kashmir.

 

[Energy]

We need to tone down, that's all. Kashmir should not be the focal point of every minister's speech. It should be on parliamentary agendas, but not as keynotes.

Pakistan politics is at its all-time low currently. Only Allah can help the country come out of this mess.

 

[daytrader]

Pakistan needs to keep up the pressure on all forums, if we don't speak for the Kashmiris who will? And if we tone down, there's no guarantee that India will talk to us and it will enforce the idea that they can get their way with force. That will tickle down in Azad Kashmir. Remember, they have a foreign policy to isolate us.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

India has already closed this chapter. This is not an issue anymore for India.

And the current Indian govt basically runs on anti Muslim and anti Pakistan agenda and propaganda.

Good relationship with Pakistan and good relations with Muslims, means end of BJP’s Reign. They won’t have anything else left to sell it to the Indian public.

You will be a fool to expect any trust worthy relationship from this RSS laced modi sarkaar

 

[Major]

But is it worth it? The opportunity cost is, army's influence in our politics and a huge budget that is allocated to the army instead of education.

Even after 100 years we wont get kashmir, thus, is it worth wasting time and money on it? We already have a chunk of it. Or maybe just get Siachen atleast, have control of the water and thats about it?

 

[daytrader]

But is it worth it? The opportunity cost is, army's influence in our politics and a huge budget that is allocated to the army instead of education.

Even after 100 years we wont get kashmir, thus, is it worth wasting time and money on it? We already have a chunk of it. Or maybe just get Siachen atleast, have control of the water and thats about it?

Kashmir is a major part of our identity, we simply can't forsake it. That's not to say we can't improve our policy. If we had a competent and sincere government we would make a difference in all aspects of governance. Instead we have a cabinet of 83 who start their day with IK's name and end their day with IK's name.

 

[Major]

Kashmir is a major part of our identity, we simply can't forsake it. That's not to say we can't improve our policy. If we had a competent and sincere government we would make a difference in all aspects of governance. Instead we have a cabinet of 83 who start their day with IK's name and end their day with IK's name.

what identity? Again, is it worth it?

There is a huge opportunity cost to it. You are allocating funds that could be given to education, but it is being allocated towards the army, who is only relevant due to Kashmir.

India is a big trading partner which Pakistan doesn't utilize.

If Pakistan gets Kashmir, what difference would it make? We will have a population boost, plus where will the hindu population go? Pakistan is going to discriminate them.

Because of this kashmir issue, people living in AJK, Baltistan, Skardu are suffering as they dont have proper rights and are stuck in limbo. Atleast in India, by removing the special status, the govt of india can do development there. Our side of kashmir doesnt get any development done due to the status given.

its a lost cause, for which we dont money anymore.

And plz dont give me this ** of competent sincere govt, for gods sakes. Every govt that comes is sincere in their own kind. Everyone tried and they couldn't get it. From Jinnah all the way upto IK.

This is not an issue in governance, this is an issue of having economic power to make such decisons where the other country cant do nothing.

 

[daytrader]

what identity? Again, is it worth it?

There is a huge opportunity cost to it. You are allocating funds that could be given to education, but it is being allocated towards the army, who is only relevant due to Kashmir.

India is a big trading partner which Pakistan doesn't utilize.

If Pakistan gets Kashmir, what difference would it make? We will have a population boost, plus where will the hindu population go? Pakistan is going to discriminate them.

Because of this kashmir issue, people living in AJK, Baltistan, Skardu are suffering as they dont have proper rights and are stuck in limbo. Atleast in India, by removing the special status, the govt of india can do development there. Our side of kashmir doesnt get any development done due to the status given.

its a lost cause, for which we dont money anymore.

And plz dont give me this ** of competent sincere govt, for gods sakes. Every govt that comes is sincere in their own kind. Everyone tried and they couldn't get it. From Jinnah all the way upto IK.

This is not an issue in governance, this is an issue of having economic power to make such decisons where the other country cant do nothing.

Read your thoughts again because you answered yourself. India is an economic power because they have good governance and sincere leaders. It's because they're economically powerful that they were able remove the special status to IOK.

Same with us, if we focus on our internal problems we can balance out their power.

As for identity, I've been following your recent posts and I observe that you're on a path to discover yourself. I would encourage you to read The Indus Saga and the Making of Pakistan It's written by a PPP stalwart Aitzaz Ahsan while he was in jail.

 

[Major]

Read your thoughts again because you answered yourself. India is an economic power because they have good governance and sincere leaders. It's because they're economically powerful that they were able remove the special status to IOK.

Same with us, if we focus on our internal problems we can balance out their power.

As for identity, I've been following your recent posts and I observe that you're on a path to discover yourself. I would encourage you to read The Indus Saga and the Making of Pakistan It's written by a PPP stalwart Aitzaz Ahsan while he was in jail.

India never pursued for whole Kashmir, India says they are happy with the current arrangement and are ready to draw a border on LOC.

Pakistan places claims on whole Kashmir. Thats the issue.

Yes India does consider our kashmir as POK, but India was always ready on a resolution where the border gets drawn on loc and the territories held by each country is made part of the country thats it.

Which is why India has now removed the special status, while Pakistan keeps on allocating budget for it.

You still not understanding the point, our internal problems cannot be solved due to Kashmir, it takes a useless budget and gets army involved in politics and foreign policy

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Why are we assuming India wants better relations with Pakistan regardless of Kashmir? One of the reasons I stopped believing this idea was because so many Indians themselves have said they don't need or want better relations.

This has been borne out by electing govts which are openly hostile to Pakistan's existence, to the extent they won't even engage in cross cultural sports or arts. I have no doubt this debate will descend into the usual diatribes and propaganda about terrorism and Pakistan army, and am not interested in getting involved in such jingo-bingo rhetoric. OP will get his answer from the Indian posters.

 

[daytrader]

India never pursued for whole Kashmir, India says they are happy with the current arrangement and are ready to draw a border on LOC.

Pakistan places claims on whole Kashmir. Thats the issue.

Yes India does consider our kashmir as POK, but India was always ready on a resolution where the border gets drawn on loc and the territories held by each country is made part of the country thats it.

Which is why India has now removed the special status, while Pakistan keeps on allocating budget for it.

You still not understanding the point, our internal problems cannot be solved due to Kashmir, it takes a useless budget and gets army involved in politics and foreign policy

How much of the budget is it really taking? It doesn't cost anything to tweet or raise a voice at any international forum.

Even if we draw a border on the LOC, army would continue to get a budget to monitor, patrol and defend that border so we're not saving any money. Army's involvement in politics is not a Kashmir issue. How come India's army is not interfering in their politics? They got a bigger budget and over 800K personnel in IOK

 

[sweep_shot]

Giving up claim on IOK is giving up self-respect.

I don't think Pakistan should do it. India is likely to treat Pakistan badly whether Pakistan give up on IOK or not.

 

[Major]

How much of the budget is it really taking? It doesn't cost anything to tweet or raise a voice at any international forum.

Even if we draw a border on the LOC, army would continue to get a budget to monitor, patrol and defend that border so we're not saving any money. Army's involvement in politics is not a Kashmir issue. How come India's army is not interfering in their politics? They got a bigger budget and over 800K personnel in IOK

Pakistan allocates 70-80% of its budget to the army. This accounts for hiring more army staff, building weapons, looking after the pensions o the retire and looking after the daily expense. Pakistan spends alot of money on building uranium and nukes.

Army influence in our politics is all due to kashmir, the kashmir conflict allows our army to be relevent.

If kashmir issue gets solved, our army becomes irrelevant and slowly their hold on our politics and influence dies down. Army's involvement in our politics is directly related to kashmir issue.

If borders get build, Pakistan would not require to waste its budget on building weapons and hiring more army personals. Border protol is something else, that doesnt cost much, its the weapons and hiring that is costing us alot of money. The maintainance we pa on it, than the upgradation aswell. Funny thing is even after spending soo much money our equipment is no where near the match of Indias.

That money could be used on health and education.

India army is not involved in politics due to their politicians being united as civilians. Plus, India never had any coup that allowed their army gain power internally.

If tomr nawaz shareef tries to solve kashmir issue, there will be a coup in Pakistan. You have no idea how Kashmir issue is used by the Pak army. Our foreign policy comes from GHQ.

Would advice you to read about our history.

Half of our issues get solved if we let go of kashmir.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Perhaps Pakistan should also give up its claim on Karachi and interior Sindh.

 

[Major]

Why are we assuming India wants better relations with Pakistan regardless of Kashmir? One of the reasons I stopped believing this idea was because so many Indians themselves have said they don't need or want better relations.

This has been borne out by electing govts which are openly hostile to Pakistan's existence, to the extent they won't even engage in cross cultural sports or arts. I have no doubt this debate will descend into the usual diatribes and propaganda about terrorism and Pakistan army, and am not interested in getting involved in such jingo-bingo rhetoric. OP will get his answer from the Indian posters.

Pakistan and Indias issue is all due to kashmir.

The mujahid terrorist we trained and fund, was the reason why after the mumbai attacks the relations went downhill. India's narrative is that Pakistan needs to stop funding terrorist or else they will break contact with Pakistan altogether as they wont do the dramaybazi that Pakistan does with USA. To be fair, India does make sense that if Pakistan and its ISI are sending terrorist to kill their people, than India should eliminate contact. This is exactly what Pakistan should had done with Afghanistan, but we never did that.

If kashmir issue dies down, there is no reason for India to be hostile against us. East of the border is Bangladesh that was also carved out of India, do they not have decent relations? Kashmir issue dieing down makes India safe as Pakistan would not require to fund mujahideen terrorist.

Pakistani posters think that it is a muslim-hindu issue, when clearly it isn't.

 

[Champ_Pal]

Why are we assuming India wants better relations with Pakistan regardless of Kashmir? One of the reasons I stopped believing this idea was because so many Indians themselves have said they don't need or want better relations.

This has been borne out by electing govts which are openly hostile to Pakistan's existence, to the extent they won't even engage in cross cultural sports or arts. I have no doubt this debate will descend into the usual diatribes and propaganda about terrorism and Pakistan army, and am not interested in getting involved in such jingo-bingo rhetoric. OP will get his answer from the Indian posters.

India should not care about any relations with Pakistan. They are not going to gain much from it as Pakistan by itself is very unstable. Nobody wants to deal with such a country.

Regarding propaganda about Terrorism, it is not just India. US themselves have said how Pakistan was supporting terrorist Taliban while pretending to be fighting alongside US. Not to forget, OBL was hiding in plain sight in Pakistan and he was caught there. This is no jingo-bingo as you are suggesting.

 

[Major]

India should not care about any relations with Pakistan. They are not going to gain much from it as Pakistan by itself is very unstable. Nobody wants to deal with such a country.

Regarding propaganda about Terrorism, it is not just India. US themselves have said how Pakistan was supporting terrorist Taliban while pretending to be fighting alongside US. Not to forget, OBL was hiding in plain sight in Pakistan and he was caught there. This is no jingo-bingo as you are suggesting.

India does gain.

When you have a neighbor that is doing well, that benefits the region. India is also putting money on nukes and buying army equipment and has to deal. WHen borders were open, India was able to take advantage of the Pakistani pink salt.

anyways, when your neighbor has a bad economy, it tends to spill over.

Biggest benefit for India would be that Pakistan would not use china against them in international forums

 

[Champ_Pal]

India does gain.

When you have a neighbor that is doing well, that benefits the region. India is also putting money on nukes and buying army equipment and has to deal. WHen borders were open, India was able to take advantage of the Pakistani pink salt.

anyways, when your neighbor has a bad economy, it tends to spill over.

Biggest benefit for India would be that Pakistan would not use china against them in international forums

I understand what you are saying. However, the onus is on Pakistan to make things better with India. Not the other way.

 

[Stewie]

AS long as Modi and BJP are there, there will be no peace no matter what. There politics is that of hate and war mongering.

Nobody would vote for them if they did not think of Pakistan as a problem or Muslims as enemies.
Jab election honay wala hota hai aur vote chahiey hotay hein to Pakistan se panga le lo ya internally Musalmano se, vote pakkay!

 

[Hextro]

Let's forget about morals for a second and talk about this from a purely economic standpoint. The first question we need to ask ourselves is how will we benefit from trade with Ind. Pakistan's main issue is that it doesn't possess the required industry to produce a large variety of goods that it can export, this is mostly due to PDM's decades-long negligence of Pakistan's export industries. To see how trade with India would go all one must do is look at Pakistan's trade with China(A non-hostile "ally").

Pakistan Exports to China 2018 - US$1.75 billion

Pakistan Imports from China 2018 -US$14 billion

Trade Deficit 2018 - US$12.25 billion

Trading with Ind would be like trading with China but much worse. Low-quality Indian goods would storm the Pakistani market and not only would that be devastating for the economy because our exports to Ind would not be able to keep up with the imports but also because it would cause a degradation of Pakistani society.

The last thing we need is another $10-20 Billion trade deficit.

You can argue that trade with Ind is beneficial only when Pakistan can have non-damaging trade with China. Until then focus on supporting policies that help expand industries and not supporting those that do the opposite.

And finally, If you're so worried about the economy how about you stop supporting the people that consistently destroy it? The title of this thread should be "Should Pakistan give up on PDM and go for better economic conditions?".

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

India should not care about any relations with Pakistan. They are not going to gain much from it as Pakistan by itself is very unstable. Nobody wants to deal with such a country.

Regarding propaganda about Terrorism, it is not just India. US themselves have said how Pakistan was supporting terrorist Taliban while pretending to be fighting alongside US. Not to forget, OBL was hiding in plain sight in Pakistan and he was caught there. This is no jingo-bingo as you are suggesting.

Thanks. This is why I was asking OP to wait for Indian replies, they would give appropriate response themselves to show they have no interest in better relations with Pakistan. This is because the rule is Hindutva-based, and Pakistan as a Muslim nation is anathema to the BJP party, and this is the party the majority Hindu population has voted for. This is not a judgement, just reporting facts. Kashmir is neither here nor there in this equation as far as India is concerned.

 

[Rajdeep]

Yes ofcourse, if Pakistan can give up their Kashmir claim and stop interfering in India's internal affairs, the relationship between the two country can go a long way. India is a thriving economy and Pakistan should exploit the trade market for their own benefits. Even the western world is using Indian emerging markets for its trade deals and so are countries like Bangladesh, Nepal, Myanmar etc. It is only Pakistan that is staying aloof for their obsession with Kashmir. They will never get Kashmir anyway, why not give it up, come clean and improve trade relations with India?

 

[Major]

Let's forget about morals for a second and talk about this from a purely economic standpoint. The first question we need to ask ourselves is how will we benefit from trade with Ind. Pakistan's main issue is that it doesn't possess the required industry to produce a large variety of goods that it can export, this is mostly due to PDM's decades-long negligence of Pakistan's export industries. To see how trade with India would go all one must do is look at Pakistan's trade with China(A non-hostile "ally").

Pakistan Exports to China 2018 - US$1.75 billion

Pakistan Imports from China 2018 -US$14 billion

Trade Deficit 2018 - US$12.25 billion

Trading with Ind would be like trading with China but much worse. Low-quality Indian goods would storm the Pakistani market and not only would that be devastating for the economy because our exports to Ind would not be able to keep up with the imports but also because it would cause a degradation of Pakistani society.

The last thing we need is another $10-20 Billion trade deficit.

You can argue that trade with Ind is beneficial only when Pakistan can have non-damaging trade with China. Until then focus on supporting policies that help expand industries and not supporting those that do the opposite.

And finally, If you're so worried about the economy how about you stop supporting the people that consistently destroy it? The title of this thread should be "Should Pakistan give up on PDM and go for better economic conditions?".

thanks for hijacking the thread with the pdm pti bakwas.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

One might ask, if India wanted better relations with Pakistan, why would they be banning Pakistan artists from performing in India, why would they be halting bilateral cricket series or banning Indian teams from bidding for Pakistan players to play IPL? What has any of that got to do with Kashmir?

 

[Major]

Yes ofcourse, if Pakistan can give up their Kashmir claim and stop interfering in India's internal affairs, the relationship between the two country can go a long way. India is a thriving economy and Pakistan should exploit the trade market for their own benefits. Even the western world is using Indian emerging markets for its trade deals and so are countries like Bangladesh, Nepal, Myanmar etc. It is only Pakistan that is staying aloof for their obsession with Kashmir. They will never get Kashmir anyway, why not give it up, come clean and improve trade relations with India?

exactly. Pakistan used to import tomatos from India for a long time, which kept the prices of tomatoes very low. Trade can happen both ways, as Indians had established a pink salt industry at a premium price through import from Pakistan.

Only a fool would say there is no benefit in trading with India, we can potentially develop a FTA market in South Asia.

What many of these people dont know is the army uses Kashmir to stay in govt.

 

[Major]

One might ask, if India wanted better relations with Pakistan, why would they be banning Pakistan artists from performing in India, why would they be halting bilateral cricket series or banning Indian teams from bidding for Pakistan players to play IPL? What has any of that got to do with Kashmir?

Mumbai attacks.

Pakistan was involved, and India retaliated by cutting all ties with Pakistan. Which is understandable if a nation cares about its people. India says that Pakistan needs to stop funding and training terrorist who are brainwashed as mujahideen fighting for kashmir.

Meanwhile, we had aps attacks and the PM allowed Ehsanullah Ehsan go scot free.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Mumbai attacks.

Pakistan was involved, and India retaliated by cutting all ties with Pakistan. Which is understandable if a nation cares about its people.

Meanwhile, we had aps attacks and the PM allowed Ehsanullah Ehsan go scot free.

I already expected the Indian posters to reference the Mumbai attacks from 15 years ago, but good for you, you have done it for them, again not much of a surprise.

So if the Mumbai attacks are the reason, why would Pakistan giving up it's claim to Kashmir make any difference to friendly relations? Would it make the terrorist attacks suddenly polished clean from the records?

 

[Hextro]

thanks for hijacking the thread with the pdm pti bakwas.

If there's a problem I'm gonna point it out and unfortunately most of our problems are directly linked to PDM. How do you expect me to comment on foreign policy without talking about the people that make policies?

Even in this topic, I didn't even scratch the surface of how poorly managed Pakistan's export industry is and why we get ourselves into a CAD crisis every 5 years when trading with countries like China. Add India into the mix and with our current policies we would've been in a Sri Lanka-like situation by now.

PDM is simply not competent enough to do what you are suggesting in the OP.

 

[smkk]

exactly. Pakistan used to import tomatos from India for a long time, which kept the prices of tomatoes very low. Trade can happen both ways, as Indians had established a pink salt industry at a premium price through import from Pakistan.

Only a fool would say there is no benefit in trading with India, we can potentially develop a FTA market in South Asia.

What many of these people dont know is the army uses Kashmir to stay in govt.

You are being naive, bro. I am from Bangladesh, who at the moment is the biggest ally of India in the region. If you think trading with India is extremely beneficial then there is no further better market study than Bangladesh itself.

Our biggest trading partner is Western Country followed by China. Where does our biggest ally falls in this. Well they do floods our market with their low quality products, but are not ready to import any of our products. Neither our western export quality cloths, nor any of our agricultural products. As a our biggest ally they do not let any of our products to enter their markets as much as benefits we provide them. And they did this to their biggest ally in the region by the way. To Pakistan, God knows what they will do.

 

[JaDed]

You are being naive, bro. I am from Bangladesh, who at the moment is the biggest ally of India in the region. If you think trading with India is extremely beneficial then there is no further better market study than Bangladesh itself.

Our biggest trading partner is Western Country followed by China. Where does our biggest ally falls in this. Well they do floods our market with their low quality products, but are not ready to import any of our products. Neither our western export quality cloths, nor any of our agricultural products. As a our biggest ally they do not let any of our products to enter their markets as much as benefits we provide them. And they did this to their biggest ally in the region by the way. To Pakistan, God knows what they will do.

Made in Bangladesh clothes are available in India, not sure what you are talking about.

 

[JaDed]

Let's forget about morals for a second and talk about this from a purely economic standpoint. The first question we need to ask ourselves is how will we benefit from trade with Ind. Pakistan's main issue is that it doesn't possess the required industry to produce a large variety of goods that it can export, this is mostly due to PDM's decades-long negligence of Pakistan's export industries. To see how trade with India would go all one must do is look at Pakistan's trade with China(A non-hostile "ally").

Pakistan Exports to China 2018 - US$1.75 billion

Pakistan Imports from China 2018 -US$14 billion

Trade Deficit 2018 - US$12.25 billion

Trading with Ind would be like trading with China but much worse. Low-quality Indian goods would storm the Pakistani market and not only would that be devastating for the economy because our exports to Ind would not be able to keep up with the imports but also because it would cause a degradation of Pakistani society.

The last thing we need is another $10-20 Billion trade deficit.

You can argue that trade with Ind is beneficial only when Pakistan can have non-damaging trade with China. Until then focus on supporting policies that help expand industries and not supporting those that do the opposite.

And finally, If you're so worried about the economy how about you stop supporting the people that consistently destroy it? The title of this thread should be "Should Pakistan give up on PDM and go for better economic conditions?".

Lot of fair points but that’s why Pakistani traders etc need to be mindful of what to import and export, Pakistan current rupee depreciation also means it benefits more wrt export and importing only necessary item.

The benefit to Pakistan can be with trade but it has to make those decisions of what is to be imported and what not.

 

[Hextro]

Lot of fair points but that’s why Pakistani traders etc need to be mindful of what to import and export, Pakistan current rupee depreciation also means it benefits more wrt export and importing only necessary item.

The benefit to Pakistan can be with trade but it has to make those decisions of what is to be imported and what not.

If you knew the history of Pakistani trade you'd know that it's just not possible. The government has shown no ability to have a consistent and stable trade relationship with any country much less with a country like India that somewhat shares a similar culture and would be able to penetrate Pakistan's domestic market with its already developed industries and cheap products. This would put further pressure on local businesses that can't compete due to economies of scale.

The number one priority always has to be the domestic industry. Import-led policies have been the death of Pakistan's economy, and trade with India would only magnify that.

 

[wasim-fan]

In my view, Kashmir issue is done and dusted. From this point onwards, if either party goes for additional territory, it will further derail the region. From Pakistan perspective, establishment and army may loose relevance if they close this issue. From India's perspective, keeping Pakistan engaged and distracted is helpful. It has succeeded in bringing Pakistan on verge of complete failure.

 

[wasim-fan]

Pakistan survival needs Singapore like focused approach that is purely working on development and growth. Pakistan needs 8% growth over next 10 years at least to somehow save itself from disarray. Leraning from Bangladesh growth story, its important to cut on defence and invest in education.

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Yes. It's not realistic. A nation like Scotland of 5 million has more influence and power than Pakistan. Time to wake up and realise we are a minnow nation which has squandered all our opportunities. Time to be humble and and try to correct the flaws.

 

[KingKhanWC]

This may be a common view from supporters of PPP and PDM. Such parties and their supporters only care for themselves even if the leaders are billionaires but the supporters are poor.

OP says Kashmir is a lost cause. He clearly has never seen a map or understands Indian POV. According to India Pakistan OCCUPIES nearly HALF of Kashmir. This has been a long occupation, hardly a lost cause.

Kashmiris are brave , strong people. They don't want to live under Indian occupation and eventually be free.

Thankfully the traitors in the PDM and PPP are in office on a temporary basis. When the real peoples party regains office, such a suggestion will be laughed off.

 

[Master Blaster]

Looks like once again it is the resident confused brits that are venomously opposing and spewing venom against the thought of peace between the two nations...

 

[KingKhanWC]

Looks like once again it is the resident confused brits that are venomously opposing and spewing venom against the thought of peace between the two nations...

Please do explain in DETAIL how giving up on Kashmir will mean peace?

 

[Major]

I already expected the Indian posters to reference the Mumbai attacks from 15 years ago, but good for you, you have done it for them, again not much of a surprise.

So if the Mumbai attacks are the reason, why would Pakistan giving up it's claim to Kashmir make any difference to friendly relations? Would it make the terrorist attacks suddenly polished clean from the records?

you really do ask basic questions.....

If Pakistan backs out its kashmir claims, than Pakistan would stop funding and training terrorists to attack India for the purpose of Kashmir.

I would advice you to read up on the history, the terrorist activity that Pakistan conducts in India is done under the banner of Kashmiri Mujahideen

 

[Major]

In my view, Kashmir issue is done and dusted. From this point onwards, if either party goes for additional territory, it will further derail the region. From Pakistan perspective, establishment and army may loose relevance if they close this issue. From India's perspective, keeping Pakistan engaged and distracted is helpful. It has succeeded in bringing Pakistan on verge of complete failure.

this is the point i am refering, but to my surprise all the pti overseas fans that have jumped on this thread dont seem to understand this..

funny thing is they whine about army influence, but they have no idea where that influence comes from and its from kashmir.

I agree, its in Indias benefit if Pakistan stays distracted on kashmir as we are self sabotagin ourselves.

 

[Major]

This may be a common view from supporters of PPP and PDM. Such parties and their supporters only care for themselves even if the leaders are billionaires but the supporters are poor.

OP says Kashmir is a lost cause. He clearly has never seen a map or understands Indian POV. According to India Pakistan OCCUPIES nearly HALF of Kashmir. This has been a long occupation, hardly a lost cause.

Kashmiris are brave , strong people. They don't want to live under Indian occupation and eventually be free.

Thankfully the traitors in the PDM and PPP are in office on a temporary basis. When the real peoples party regains office, such a suggestion will be laughed off.

same rona dhona, pdm pti.......

it was under ptis noses that india removed the special powers given to kashmir.

You really dont have a clue the impact kashmir has on our politics and governance

 

[KingKhanWC]

this is the point i am refering, but to my surprise all the pti overseas fans that have jumped on this thread dont seem to understand this..

funny thing is they whine about army influence, but they have no idea where that influence comes from and its from kashmir.

I agree, its in Indias benefit if Pakistan stays distracted on kashmir as we are self sabotagin ourselves.

You want Pakistan to give up Azad Kashmir too? Is this what your hero Bilawal also believes?

 

[Major]

Looks like once again it is the resident confused brits that are venomously opposing and spewing venom against the thought of peace between the two nations...

offocurse, because they dont live here or understand the dynamics.

Look at the questions being asked, some of them dont know why India banned Pakistan, like hello Mumbai attacks?
Some of them have been whining for 1 year about Pakistan army infleunce on govt, yet they seem to have no clue that its the kashmir cause that gives them this influence.

 

[KingKhanWC]

same rona dhona, pdm pti.......

it was under ptis noses that india removed the special powers given to kashmir.

You really dont have a clue the impact kashmir has on our politics and governance

You havent answered my points because you didnt realise India believes Azad Kashmir is theirs too.

Indian have been raping young girls and abusing elderly under every government. Or do you think when chacha Zardari was in charge, they were handing out flowers made by Benazir and Bilo?

 

[Major]

You want Pakistan to give up Azad Kashmir too? Is this what your hero Bilawal also believes?

where did i said Pakistan should give up azad kashmir? Atleast living in UK should give you better english reading skills shouldn't it?

Pakistan is never going to get the India part of Kashmir, a percentage of which they have promised to China. Its unrealistic. The resolution is to make a border on LOC thats it.

Or else, Pak army will keep on getting funding under the name of Kashmir and will continue to control the govt of Pakistan.

 

[KingKhanWC]

where did i said Pakistan should give up azad kashmir? Atleast living in UK should give you better english reading skills shouldn't it?

Pakistan is never going to get the India part of Kashmir, a percentage of which they have promised to China. Its unrealistic. The resolution is to make a border on LOC thats it.

Or else, Pak army will keep on getting funding under the name of Kashmir and will continue to control the govt of Pakistan.

No its your ignorance , as India believes all of Kashmir is theirs. So its daft to think giving up on occupied Kashmir will bring peace. A child can understand this.

What are the lottery numbers for this weekend? How do you know the future?

Funding of the army will continue as they have huge influence and India will always be a threat due to its Hindu extremist rulers.

 

[Major]

You havent answered my points because you didnt realise India believes Azad Kashmir is theirs too.

Indian have been raping young girls and abusing elderly under every government. Or do you think when chacha Zardari was in charge, they were handing out flowers made by Benazir and Bilo?

If India really wanted Azad Kashmir, than they would had added it as a condition during Shimla agreement. Even India knows that getting Azad Kashmir is not possible as it would cause a full fledge war, yes they will continue to make claim to it.

If Pakistan decides to go forward with a agreement that they wont pursue Indian side Kashmir, there is no reason for India to still pursue for Pakistan administered kashmir. India would be relieved from the continuous terrorist that Pakistan sends aswell as the spies that are recording the domiciles of the newly given lands

When special status was removed, India knew Pakistan could do the same, if they really wanted Pakistan's kashmir than they would had not removed the special status.

As for rape, chinese govt are doing the same, to which Niazi turned a blind eye. Not Pakistan's problem, we have our own issues and cannot take other countries issues aswell

 

[Major]

No its your ignorance , as India believes all of Kashmir is theirs. So its daft to think giving up on occupied Kashmir will bring peace. A child can understand this.

What are the lottery numbers for this weekend? How do you know the future?

Funding of the army will continue as they have huge influence and India will always be a threat due to its Hindu extremist rulers.

If Hindu extremism was a threat that why haven't they taken over Bangladesh?

alot of kookoo ideas you have in ur mind.

 

[KingKhanWC]

If India really wanted Azad Kashmir, than they would had added it as a condition during Shimla agreement. Even India knows that getting Azad Kashmir is not possible as it would cause a full fledge war, yes they will continue to make claim to it.

If Pakistan decides to go forward with a agreement that they wont pursue Indian side Kashmir, there is no reason for India to still pursue for Pakistan administered kashmir. India would be relieved from the continuous terrorist that Pakistan sends aswell as the spies that are recording the domiciles of the newly given lands

When special status was removed, India knew Pakistan could do the same, if they really wanted Pakistan's kashmir than they would had not removed the special status.

As for rape, chinese govt are doing the same, to which Niazi turned a blind eye. Not Pakistan's problem, we have our own issues and cannot take other countries issues aswell

If Hindu extremism was a threat that why haven't they taken over Bangladesh?

alot of kookoo ideas you have in ur mind.

If?

India officially claims ALL of Kashmir is their land. Simla agreement didnt confirm India will give up Azad Kashmir for good. Have you even read it?

These are just your opinions and we know your opinions on politics as you think Bilo is the savior after chacha Zardari.

Hindu Extremism in power will be a threat to Pakistan, read some of their statements. Your hero Bilo made a strong statement about the RSS. So either you havent read it or you are confused Bilo will be the greatest leader since Alexander the Great.

 

[Barragan]

It is huge weakness point for Pak during a time of war.

Strategically Ind has a massive advantage by gaining that side of Kashmir, especially with water.

That is the reason Pakistan can never let go of iok.

 

[KingKhanWC]

It is huge weakness point for Pak during a time of war.

Strategically Ind has a massive advantage by gaining that side of Kashmir, especially with water.

That is the reason Pakistan can never let go of iok.

It was before 1999.

When you have more nukes than your neighbour, everything becomes equalised.

Which is the reason why India ran off after bombing trees and didnt react after their aircraft was shot down. If Pak didnt have nukes, a different story every time.

 

[Major]

It is huge weakness point for Pak during a time of war.

Strategically Ind has a massive advantage by gaining that side of Kashmir, especially with water.

That is the reason Pakistan can never let go of iok.

But India still has that part doesnt it? If war takes place they will still use it.

Alot of people in Gilgat Baltistan suffer due to this, there is no development there as pakistani govt cant official do anything there.

 

[ElRaja]

nope, there is no tangible benefit and if people think the tension between both countries is bad now, it will worsen when water scarcity becomes an even larger issue.

to all the indians saying india doesnt care abt GB and AK, leave it out, u guys cant even accept the map of the real situation on the ground.

india would do anything to break pakistans land connection to china if they thought they could, and pak would do anything to control north east indias water supply.

both nations will never give up their claims as the land is too important strategically and resource-wise. not sure what OP wants to achieve with this topic, dont think he really thinks this is viable.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

In my view, Kashmir issue is done and dusted. From this point onwards, if either party goes for additional territory, it will further derail the region. From Pakistan perspective, establishment and army may loose relevance if they close this issue. From India's perspective, keeping Pakistan engaged and distracted is helpful. It has succeeded in bringing Pakistan on verge of complete failure.

Straight from the horse's mouth. For Indians, success is seen as Pakistan failure, so why would they want friendly relations? Of course this post has readliy been agreed by the OP which should tell you plenty how false flag posters actually represent India's viewpoint, not Pakistan's.

 

[RexRex]

Straight from the horse's mouth. For Indians, success is seen as Pakistan failure, so why would they want friendly relations? Of course this post has readliy been agreed by the OP which should tell you plenty how false flag posters actually represent India's viewpoint, not Pakistan's.

The Kashmir issue has been permanently settled in 2019, as far as India is concerned.

Pakistanis can keep discussing it amongst themselves for the next 100 years if it makes them feel good but it would be a bit like that Japanese soldier who hid in the jungle for a further 30 years thinking WW2 was still going on.

 

[Technics 1210]

Should China also rescind control of Kashmir to improve relations with India?

If India is all powerful as it claims to be, then take back control from Kashmir from Pakistan and China.

Go back to bed dreamers.

 

[Major]

nope, there is no tangible benefit and if people think the tension between both countries is bad now, it will worsen when water scarcity becomes an even larger issue.

to all the indians saying india doesnt care abt GB and AK, leave it out, u guys cant even accept the map of the real situation on the ground.

india would do anything to break pakistans land connection to china if they thought they could, and pak would do anything to control north east indias water supply.

both nations will never give up their claims as the land is too important strategically and resource-wise. not sure what OP wants to achieve with this topic, dont think he really thinks this is viable.

When both nations are not getting the land they claim than what?

Pakistan cannot spend a dime in the areas they hold. No development could be done as pakistan doesnt want to remove the status it gives.

Next years budget will again see army taking huge cuts on the kashmir cause.

How does ajything change when both own and keep the charity they still have power over.

 

[nextover666666]

Pakistan needs to keep up the pressure on all forums, if we don't speak for the Kashmiris who will? And if we tone down, there's no guarantee that India will talk to us and it will enforce the idea that they can get their way with force. That will tickle down in Azad Kashmir. Remember, they have a foreign policy to isolate us.

Exactly Post on the Year.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

But is it worth it? The opportunity cost is, army's influence in our politics and a huge budget that is allocated to the army instead of education.

Even after 100 years we wont get kashmir, thus, is it worth wasting time and money on it? We already have a chunk of it. Or maybe just get Siachen atleast, have control of the water and thats about it?

You don't get it, do you?
They are ready to spit at you and you are wanting to brown your nose by kissing their rear end. Kashmir is out of the equation now. India has moved on.

Cutting defense budget is definitely Pakistan's one of biggest need but that budget does not go deter India from attacking Pakistan. India does not want Pakistan. It's a $250 billion liability of a nation that stands among the most corrupt nations in the world.

That defense budget needs cut because it's used by the haram khore army generals and their shah kharchiyan.

India has no part to play here.

 

[Hitman]

Was watching a youtube video by a Pakistani youtuber which was shot just a couple of weeks ago. In the video he was asking random Pakistanis on what would they prefer between the 2, economy or Kashmir.

To my surprise, most of the Pakistanis chose Kashmir over economy.

 

[Major]

You don't get it, do you?
They are ready to spit at you and you are wanting to brown your nose by kissing their rear end. Kashmir is out of the equation now. India has moved on.

Cutting defense budget is definitely Pakistan's one of biggest need but that budget does not go deter India from attacking Pakistan. India does not want Pakistan. It's a $250 billion liability of a nation that stands among the most corrupt nations in the world.

That defense budget needs cut because it's used by the haram khore army generals and their shah kharchiyan.

India has no part to play here.

It seems you dont get it, with the usual rambling.

PTI fans started hating the army only 9 months ago, so i understand they are not aware.

If Kashmir is out of occasion, than why not just accept LOC as the border. If that happens the whole India vs Pakistan dushmani ends there. There is no valid reason for India to have issues with Pakistan. India's current issue with Pakistan is that under the disguise of Kashmir, they are sending terrorist to attack India and Jammu Kashmir.

The army gets 2 advantages from Kashmir. First thing, if Kashmir conflict will exist, GHQ would matter. The army gets to decide the foreign policy in kashmir, and the govt hass to tow the line. If army doesnt want freindship, than no matter who the PM is, they have to tow the line. The army gets consulted on Kashmir, and they stay relevent and use their influence in the govt.

Second is that, to give a 80% budget, you need to justify it. The army doesnt just say we need a big cut of the budget and AGP approves. They justify the budget by saying how they need the money in making uranium, ordinance factories and other military equipment. Plus, Pakistan army does hiring twice a year, meanwhile civilian govt does hiring once a year.

Kashmir and India plays a part in all this. If Kashmir issue ends with the current LOC being the border, the funds will stop being diverted as the Pakistan army would lose relevance, and hiring would be limited

 

[cricketjoshila]

For India Kashmir issue is done and dusted. India will not try to change the status quo through force but any provocation will have a disproportionate conventional response.

Pakistan can keep repeating Kashmir a million times around the world it will still not change the status quo.

Relations with Pakistan has been at a bare minimum for last few years, and there have been no adverse affects on India. So the talking part is done and dusted too, unless India has an incentive to restart it.

The only way things can change is if Pakistan dismantles it's terror network and stops supporting funding training and equipping the secessionist terrorist movement in Kashmir. Else India has no incentive to start any dialogue etc.

 

[Hitman]

Violence ebbing with each passing day in Kashmir

By SHABIR IBN YUSUF


With each passing day, Kashmir has been recording a significant decrease in the number of terrorist incidents and related casualties. For that matter month of March recorded only one killing- an intruder shot dead in Tangdhar area of Kupwara.


This had to be attributed to a combination of factors, including increased security measures and intelligence gathering, targeted counterterrorism operations by J&K police , security forces, and better coordination between them.

In addition, nevertheless, there have been some efforts by the government to improve the situation in Kashmir by promoting economic development and improving infrastructure in the valley, which may help to address some of the underlying grievances that have fuelled terrorism in the past. This includes investments in roads, bridges, and other infrastructure, as well as initiatives to boost tourism and create jobs.

Also, there have been targeted counterterrorism operations by Police and security forces against terrorist groups operating in Kashmir. These operations have focused on disrupting terrorist networks, targeting high-value targets, and seizing weapons and explosives.

Another measure has been the use of technology to improve security. This includes the use of drones and other advanced technologies to monitor the Kahmir and detect any terrorist activity.

Overall, these measures have helped to reduce terrorist-related violence in Kashmir. It will require ongoing efforts and cooperation to achieve lasting peace and stability in the region.

In 2019, the central government revoked the special status of Jammu and Kashmir. Since then, there have been ongoing efforts to reduce violence and improve the situation in Kashmir. The government has made efforts to bring economic development to the region and to improve infrastructure.

In February 2021, a ceasefire was agreed between India and Pakistan along the Line of Control, which is the de facto border between the two countries in Jammu and Kashmir. This has led to a significant reduction in cross-border firing and shelling, which had been a major source of violence in the region. Since the ceasefire was announced, there have been reports of a decrease in civilian casualties and property damage along the border.

The government has taken a strong stance against terrorism in Kashmir, including cracking down on individuals and groups who are believed to have sympathies for terrorist organizations. This has involved a range of measures, including legal action against those suspected of supporting terrorism, and increased surveillance and monitoring of individuals and groups believed to be involved in terrorist activities.

The government has also taken steps to prevent the spread of extremist ideology in Kashmir, through initiatives such as countering violent extremism (CVE) programs. These programs aim to promote alternative narratives and prevent the radicalization of vulnerable individuals, including youth, who may be susceptible to extremist messaging.

In addition, the government has implemented measures to cut off funding for terrorist groups and their sympathisers in Kashmir, such as cracking down on illegal sources of funding and money laundering operations.

The crackdown on terror sympathizers is one of several measures taken by the government to address the problem of terrorism in Kashmir. It remains to be seen whether these measures will be effective in achieving lasting peace and stability in the region.

Under the Unlawful Activities (Prevention) Act, the government has the power to seize properties and assets of individuals and organizations involved in terrorist activities. This includes properties that are suspected to be used for terrorism financing, such as funds or properties owned by individuals with suspected links to terrorist organizations.

The government has seized properties of separatist leaders in Kashmir who are suspected of having links to terrorist organizations. This has included the seizure of properties owned by leaders of the Hurriyat Conference, which was a coalition of separatist organizations in the valley.

The government has also taken measures to prevent the misuse of properties by terrorists and their sympathizers. For example, it has cracked down on the use of mosques and madrasas as centers for radicalization and terrorist training.

Overall, the seizing of properties of terrorists and their sympathizers is one of several measures taken by the government to combat terrorism in Kashmir. While these measures have been effective in disrupting the financing and support of terrorist activities.

The issue of infiltration from Pakistan-occupied Kashmir (PoK) has been a longstanding security concern for India. In recent years, there have been efforts by the security forces to curb infiltration and tighten border security in the region.

One of the key measures taken by the government to address this issue is the construction of a fence along the Line of Control (LoC), which separates the two parts of Kashmir. The fence is intended to prevent infiltration by terrorists from Pakistan, and is supported by advanced surveillance technologies such as thermal imaging cameras and ground sensors.

Security forces have stepped up their efforts to track and apprehend infiltrators, including launching targeted counter-insurgency operations in areas where terrorists are suspected to be operating.

These measures have been effective in reducing the number of infiltrations from PoK into Kashmir. According to official statistics, the number of infiltration attempts has declined significantly in recent years, with fewer successful attempts by terrorists to cross the LoC.

However, the issue of infiltration remains a complex and ongoing security challenge, as terrorists continue to attempt to cross the LoC using a variety of tactics, including through tunnels and other covert means. As such, the security forces continue to remain vigilant and take measures to prevent infiltration and maintain security in Kashmir.

One positive development in Kashmir in recent years has been the return of some local youth from the path of violence and terrorism. There have been several initiatives launched by the government, civil society organizations, and community leaders to rehabilitate and reintegrate youth who were involved in violent activities back into mainstream society.

One of the key programs launched by the government was the "Operation Maa", which aims to rehabilitate and bring back youth who have joined terror groups. The program provides counseling, training, and other support services to help these individuals reintegrate into mainstream society and build productive lives.

There have also been efforts by civil society organizations and community leaders to address the root causes of violence and terrorism in Kashmir, including unemployment, lack of economic opportunities, and political grievances. These efforts have included job fairs, skill development programs, and other initiatives aimed at providing youth with opportunities to build productive and fulfilling lives.

These initiatives have been successful in encouraging some local youth to leave the path of violence and terrorism and return to mainstream society.

Further, there has been a significant decline in the recruitment of local youth in terror ranks in Kashmir in recent years. This is a positive development and can be attributed to several factors, including the government's efforts to address the root causes of terrorism, improved border security, and a reduction in external support for terror groups.

Moreover, the security forces have also stepped up their efforts to prevent terror groups from recruiting local youth. This has included targeted counter-insurgency operations and surveillance to track and apprehend terror and disrupt their recruitment networks.

Another factor contributing to the decline in local youth recruitment in terror ranks is the improved border security. The construction of a fence along the Line of Control and the use of advanced surveillance technologies have made it more difficult for terrorists to cross the border and enter Kashmir.

Finally, there has been a reduction in external support for terror groups operating in Kashmir. The international community has become increasingly aware of the dangers of terrorism and has taken measures to cut off funding and support for terrorist groups.

Overall, the decline in local youth recruitment in terror ranks in Kashmir is a positive development.

Link: https://www.greaterkashmir.com/toda...lence-ebbing-with-each-passing-day-in-kashmir

 

[wasim-fan]

this is the point i am refering, but to my surprise all the pti overseas fans that have jumped on this thread dont seem to understand this..

funny thing is they whine about army influence, but they have no idea where that influence comes from and its from kashmir.

I agree, its in Indias benefit if Pakistan stays distracted on kashmir as we are self sabotagin ourselves.

Those from Pakistan are facing the challenges. The ones sitting in their safe houses abroad wouldn’t mind an ongoing tussle for their kicks.

Fact is lives and livelihoods matter more than even false sense of narrative and pride. Bangladesh have shown what’s possible if you get your focus right.

India will be third largest economy in 5 years. Pakistan needs to get on growth path for its own sake. Beat India on growth and development. Kashmir is dead horse. At this rate it would become a challenge to retain Azad Kashmir. When there is no food on table, there is no Azaadi.

 

[Major]

Those from Pakistan are facing the challenges. The ones sitting in their safe houses abroad wouldn’t mind an ongoing tussle for their kicks.

Fact is lives and livelihoods matter more than even false sense of narrative and pride. Bangladesh have shown what’s possible if you get your focus right.

India will be third largest economy in 5 years. Pakistan needs to get on growth path for its own sake. Beat India on growth and development. Kashmir is dead horse. At this rate it would become a challenge to retain Azad Kashmir. When there is no food on table, there is no Azaadi.

exactly, i have met many students from GB area, and they say that with no development and job opportunities GB isnt doing well. If India has removed special status, than Pakistan should forget about Indian kashmir and start focusing on its on Kashmir by removing the special status and give them proper rights.

Its the locals who are suffering, while hte ones sitting in foreign lands are safe

 

[Colorblind Genius]

It seems you dont get it, with the usual rambling.

PTI fans started hating the army only 9 months ago, so i understand they are not aware.

If Kashmir is out of occasion, than why not just accept LOC as the border. If that happens the whole India vs Pakistan dushmani ends there. There is no valid reason for India to have issues with Pakistan. India's current issue with Pakistan is that under the disguise of Kashmir, they are sending terrorist to attack India and Jammu Kashmir.

The army gets 2 advantages from Kashmir. First thing, if Kashmir conflict will exist, GHQ would matter. The army gets to decide the foreign policy in kashmir, and the govt hass to tow the line. If army doesnt want freindship, than no matter who the PM is, they have to tow the line. The army gets consulted on Kashmir, and they stay relevent and use their influence in the govt.

Second is that, to give a 80% budget, you need to justify it. The army doesnt just say we need a big cut of the budget and AGP approves. They justify the budget by saying how they need the money in making uranium, ordinance factories and other military equipment. Plus, Pakistan army does hiring twice a year, meanwhile civilian govt does hiring once a year.

Kashmir and India plays a part in all this. If Kashmir issue ends with the current LOC being the border, the funds will stop being diverted as the Pakistan army would lose relevance, and hiring would be limited

OK - You are free to convince the army and it’s policy making and budget hogging generals to change their policy on Kashmir.

Now, are you saying the Army scams the AGP to approve bigger budget under a falls premise of Kashmir issue with India?

So Army is the bad guy here?
Don’t you sound like a PTI supporter now?

And then again, how dropping Kashmir off the table helps create friendly relations with India when this is EXACTLY what RSS laced BJP does NOT want?

Cozy relationship with Pakistan and Muslims means BJP ki dukaandari band. Their whole campaign runs on hate mongering. They would never want to friends with Pakistan even if you walk away from Kashmir and give up your nukes.

 

[Colorblind Genius]

For India Kashmir issue is done and dusted. India will not try to change the status quo through force but any provocation will have a disproportionate conventional response.

Pakistan can keep repeating Kashmir a million times around the world it will still not change the status quo.

Relations with Pakistan has been at a bare minimum for last few years, and there have been no adverse affects on India. So the talking part is done and dusted too, unless India has an incentive to restart it.

The only way things can change is if Pakistan dismantles it's terror network and stops supporting funding training and equipping the secessionist terrorist movement in Kashmir. Else India has no incentive to start any dialogue etc.

And how do you justify sending over those swamp rats like Kulbhushan Jhadav?

 

[cricketjoshila]

And how do you justify sending over those swamp rats like Kulbhushan Jhadav?

Learn the difference between an alleged SPY and a terrorist.

 

[MenInG]

Learn the difference between an alleged SPY and a terrorist.

The "alleged" SPY was in Pakistan to eat nihari?

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

The Kashmir issue has been permanently settled in 2019, as far as India is concerned.

Pakistanis can keep discussing it amongst themselves for the next 100 years if it makes them feel good but it would be a bit like that Japanese soldier who hid in the jungle for a further 30 years thinking WW2 was still going on.

Tell it to the OP, no need to keep getting drawn to my posts. You will find I have never initiated a thread on Kashmir, so you are aiming your advice to the wrong person.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

For India Kashmir issue is done and dusted. India will not try to change the status quo through force but any provocation will have a disproportionate conventional response.

Pakistan can keep repeating Kashmir a million times around the world it will still not change the status quo.

Relations with Pakistan has been at a bare minimum for last few years, and there have been no adverse affects on India. So the talking part is done and dusted too, unless India has an incentive to restart it.

The only way things can change is if Pakistan dismantles it's terror network and stops supporting funding training and equipping the secessionist terrorist movement in Kashmir. Else India has no incentive to start any dialogue etc.

Thank you once again patriotic Indian poster. OP and his cheerleader friends won't accept the truth from neutral British Pakistani sources, better he hears direct from the horses mouth. Hindutva led Indians have no interest in peace with Pakistan, or any relation other than the eventual demise of the country, although they won't openly admit that last part.

 

[daytrader]

exactly, i have met many students from GB area, and they say that with no development and job opportunities GB isnt doing well. If India has removed special status, than Pakistan should forget about Indian kashmir and start focusing on its on Kashmir by removing the special status and give them proper rights.

Its the locals who are suffering, while hte ones sitting in foreign lands are safe

No jobs is an issue across all of Pakistan not just limited to GB. Again it goes back to good governance which you don't want to acknowledge. You think by giving up our claim on Kashmir all our problems will be magically solved that's simply not the case. We would still have 4 borders to defend and army will continue finding ways to justify their budget. Only thing that can change that again is good governance which India has, hence their upper hand for now

 

[nextover666666]

For India Kashmir issue is done and dusted. India will not try to change the status quo through force but any provocation will have a disproportionate conventional response.

Pakistan can keep repeating Kashmir a million times around the world it will still not change the status quo.

Relations with Pakistan has been at a bare minimum for last few years, and there have been no adverse affects on India. So the talking part is done and dusted too, unless India has an incentive to restart it.

The only way things can change is if Pakistan dismantles it's terror network and stops supporting funding training and equipping the secessionist terrorist movement in Kashmir. Else India has no incentive to start any dialogue etc.

We do not need good relations with India, their using their agenda so try to eliminate Pakistan, they still cant get over 1947, when we got our freedom and own nation, India government supports Hindu Terrorist group whom are behind a lot of the attacks in Pakistan, so maybe your government should stop funding terrorist groups.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Pakistan's economy is at an all time low. India has drawn up new borders and removed the special status it once gave to Jammu and Kashmir. The reason why India and Pakistan dont have normal relations is because of Kashmir. Both countries lay claim on the whole Kashmir, Jammu and Baltistan area.

While India lays claim and has done well economically. Pakistan has faced more problems on Kashmir politically. The army gets to take a larger cut in the budget under the name of Kashmir cause, and the army also enjoys its influence on our politics due to the Kashmir cause.

There are rumors that the army doesnt want the Kashmir issue to be solved, as if it does get solved, the army losses its influence and grip over the control of Pakistan and its governance.

Pakistan is not gonna take Kashmir from India, that is only possible if India's economy collapses and than Pakistan takes advantage of that. Meanwhile, Pakistan's own economy is collapsing and India could take advantage of this.

Also, if by some miracle we do get whole Kashmir and Jammu, Pakistan has promised some land to China, and most likely would get Kargil, Siachen and some areas of Ladekh. This would result in an increase in the population and plus there will be a hindu population that Pakistan wont be able to give rights to. Plus, Pakistan would not be giving independence to Kashmiris, they will make them part of Pakistan as we have invested in tourism in the Pakistan administrated Kashmir and Baltistan.

India is a major trading power, and Pakistan needs to be trading with the neighbor to help improve its own economy.

Your thoughts?

Kashmir is a lost cause, only doing further damage on Pakistan where we Army takes the front row seat

You seem to have made this thread with sincerity and genuineness.

However the issue for you is:

- Pakistan is now in a state where it is beyond recovery, should the Kashmir issue be solved or not.

- Indians have moved on, their economy is in the top 5, their political opinion in the international arena is taken very seriously. Heck last week I heard the US has offered India a membership in NATO.

It is best to leave things as it is, Pakistan cannot be salvaged, it's destiny is sealed, Pakistan will go the way it is. What a pathetic situation when you have to beg for IMF loans just to service your existing existing herculean loans, practically zero money coming from the economy.

Pakistan can dig their heads in sand and keep fighting for Kashmir and get poorer by the day, it is nail, coffin, hammer, Pakistan is finished.

 

[Major]

No jobs is an issue across all of Pakistan not just limited to GB. Again it goes back to good governance which you don't want to acknowledge. You think by giving up our claim on Kashmir all our problems will be magically solved that's simply not the case. We would still have 4 borders to defend and army will continue finding ways to justify their budget. Only thing that can change that again is good governance which India has, hence their upper hand for now

you been to GB? you know there people?

 

[Local.Dada]

The more I read about Pakistans stance on Kashmir the more confused I get.

When it comes to India here is the stance be it BJP or congress or whoever : Kashmir is India’s “atoot ang”.

From what I know there are 2 perspectives of Kashmiris on the Indian side: They want to be part of India and there is no denial that there is also a underlying sentiment of full autonomy/ freedom in some areas. Being a part of Pakistan never even crosses their mind.

Now when it comes to Pakistan I never understood what they want. Do they want Kashmir to be its own independent country like Bangladesh etc or do they want it to be a new state incorporated into Pakistan?

Also appreciate the Op speaking his mind and touch on a very sensitive subject. So kudos.

In fact if Pakistan ever does this it will only corner the current government of India. The current Indian rhetoric (practical or not is a different debate) is to annex entire region of Kashmir in to India eventually. So if Pakistan offers a peace deal or such a solution it will only put GOI in a dilemma. Should they take the deal and bring some semblance of peace or cater to their hard core supporters with such rhetoric.

The world is much more than Hindu-Muslim, RSS-BJP, PTI, tamaatars from India etc. we live in a global village. You get along you make progress, otherwise you get left behind. Proof in the pudding: Indian diplomacy vs Pakistan diplomacy.

I think the thread has noble intentions but it is catering to the wrong audience I feel who lack depth. Not their fault for not knowing the ground situation even though some questions have to be asked on ability to read books or even figure out usage of the internet.

 

[wasim-fan]

For me, the biggest success for existence of Pakistan would have been to present an aspirational modern Islamic republic for the world and for India. To give hope for those hapless Muslims in India to build their lives here.

Instead we have a failing state that still needs to continue fighting for the elite and establishment. You can see why all the elite and ex army men move abroad post retirement with multi billion dollar businesses. When you are abroad you have no Stake in the land. You can do all the posturing you feel like.

Even in this state, elite can pretend to be at loggerheads with their neighbors when in fact they have no foot to stand on. Ask Kashmiris if they want to join this state. Problem is that this civil defence state has staked it all on one issue with no rooted identity to the land. Honesty, it will take a miracle from hereon. But Pakistan is a land of miracles. So I wouldn’t lose hope yet. Just need right governance and focus.

 

[nextover666666]

You seem to have made this thread with sincerity and genuineness.

However the issue for you is:

- Pakistan is now in a state where it is beyond recovery, should the Kashmir issue be solved or not.

- Indians have moved on, their economy is in the top 5, their political opinion in the international arena is taken very seriously. Heck last week I heard the US has offered India a membership in NATO.

It is best to leave things as it is, Pakistan cannot be salvaged, it's destiny is sealed, Pakistan will go the way it is. What a pathetic situation when you have to beg for IMF loans just to service your existing existing herculean loans, practically zero money coming from the economy.

Pakistan can dig their heads in sand and keep fighting for Kashmir and get poorer by the day, it is nail, coffin, hammer, Pakistan is finished.

Only someone who has hate and cant get over 1947 will say Pakistan is finished. Pakistan will never be finished.

 

[Local.Dada]

Only someone who has hate and cant get over 1947 will say Pakistan is finished. Pakistan will never be finished.

Vajpayee stood on Minar e Pakistan and acknowledged Pakistan. That is one of the tallest BJP leaders and RSS alumni. Not that Pakistan needed validation but that should have ended the rhetoric of BJP wanting Akhand Bharat or whatever and not acknowledging Pakistan’s existence.

How does such a monument occasion go over most even educated Pakistani’s heads?

What happened after that is also documented.

Modi visited Pakistan in the first year after he was elected.

Pakistan being finished or on the verge of it is not an Indian narrative. IK appears on some news channel every day and isn’t he saying more or less the same thing?