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My thoughts are with those who lost their beloved ones and I condemn the violence of Indian Army in Indian Occupied Kashmir
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"Infringement, Unacceptable": India Protests UK Envoy's Visit To PoK
Lodging a strong protest against a visit by the British High Commissioner in Islamabad to Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, the Ministry of External Affairs has said that the infringement on India's territorial integrity is unacceptable, and reiterated that Jammu and Kashmir has been and shall always remain an integral part of the country.
Reacting to the visit by British High Commissioner Jane Marriott, the ministry said on Saturday, "India has taken a serious note of the highly objectionable visit of the British High Commissioner in Islamabad, along with a UK Foreign Office official, to Pakistan occupied Kashmir on 10 January 2024. Such infringement of India's sovereignty and territorial integrity is unacceptable."
"Foreign Secretary has lodged a strong protest with the British High Commissioner in India on this infringement. The Union Territories of Jammu and Kashmir and Ladakh are, have been and shall always remain an integral part of India," the ministry said.
Sharing some photos from her visit to Mirpur in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, Ms Marriott had posted on X, "Salaam from Mirpur, the heart of the UK and Pakistan's people-to-people ties! 70% of British Pakistani roots are from Mirpur, making our work together crucial for diaspora interests. Thank you for your hospitality!"
The handle of the British High Commission in Pakistan also shared a video of Ms Marriott's visit to the area, which showed her going to a bakery and interacting with district officials.
In October last year, India had raised its concerns with the US over the visit of American Ambassador to Islamabad, Donald Blome, to Gilgit-Baltistan in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir. The Ministry of External Affairs had called on the world community to respect the country's sovereignty and territorial integrity. The US ambassador had visited Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir in 2022 as well.
Speaking in Parliament in December, Union Home Minister Amit Shah said 24 seats have been reserved in the Jammu and Kashmir Assembly for Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, emphasising that "PoK is ours".
Source: NDTV
"Infringement, Unacceptable": India Protests UK Envoy's Visit To PoK
Lodging a strong protest against the visit by the British High Commissioner in Islamabad to Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, the Ministry of External Affairs has said that the infringement on India's territorial integrity is unacceptable.www.ndtv.com
Pakistan are in danger of losing the Pakistan cause - a crumbling, overleveraged economy with possible Balkanisation on the horizon
But difficult to focus on Kashmir when you are getting wrecked internally
I made a post on this in another thread. Reporting from the ground so to speak. Make of it what you will. The ground realities are changing rapidly.Kashmiris can't be appeased with it. They want total salvation from Indian occupation.
I visited Kashmir after nearly 15 years last year and I have to say I found it a very different place.
- Prima facie, massive development. Infrastructure investments wherever you look.
- Still a very significant and intrusive army presence. Checkposts everywhere
- Biggest change...it seems like a country of old people. In particular, hardly any young men. My houseboat owner for example had 2 young sons. One had moved to Saudi and one was in some business in Mumbai. His "boy" on the houseboat was a pahadi from maybe Himachal?
- Carrying on from the above, i could see a big demographic change happening. Lot of non-locals especially in the tourist trade. Many of them planning to settle permanently.
Some of what I saw saddened me but on the whole, this showed that the question of Kashmir is very close to settled. In a few years, it'll be almost impossible to imagine any change in status quo. Any change will involve unimaginable human suffering...in the range of the Partition.
The sooner everyone involved accepts this, however unfair, the better I think.
No noticeable change speaking from memory. There's checkposts every few kilometres. Traveling on the roads is slow but traffic is definitely a lot more. I'm no local but I actually saw what I thought I would never see - traffic jams in Srinagar.So with so much good news emanating from IOK, can we assume the half million Indian troops keeping the population at the point of a gun have withdrawn from the valley?
I dont know how can you call situation in IOK normal despite the fact that your 9 lac strength strong army still there.No noticeable change speaking from memory. There's checkposts every few kilometres. Traveling on the roads is slow but traffic is definitely a lot more. I'm no local but I actually saw what I thought I would never see - traffic jams in Srinagar.
wow this is great news.PM Modi launches Rs 32,000-crore worth development projects in Jammu & Kashmir
PM Modi also flagged off the first electric train in the Valley and the train service between Sangaldan and Baramulla stations.
Prime Minister Narendra Modi with Union Minister Jitendra Singh and J&K Lt Governor Manoj Sinha during the inauguration & foundation stone laying ceremony of multiple developmental projects, in Jammu, on Tuesday.
Jammu: Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Tuesday launched multiple development projects, including for education, railway, aviation and road sectors, in Jammu and Kashmir worth over Rs 32,000 crore.
From Jammu, the prime minister also launched or laid foundation stone of projects worth Rs 13,500 crore across the country. These projects include Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs), Indian Institutes of Management (IIMs) and central universities.
Modi distributed appointment letters to about 1,500 newly recruited government employees of Jammu and Kashmir and also interacted with the beneficiaries of various schemes as part of the 'Viksit Bharat, Viksit Jammu' programme.
Among the railway projects that Modi inaugurated are the railway line between Banihal-Khari-Sumber-Sangaldan (48 km) and the newly electrified Baramulla-Srinagar-Banihal-Sangaldan section (185.66 km).
He flagged off the first electric train in the Valley and the train service between Sangaldan and Baramulla stations. The commissioning of the Banihal-Khari-Sumber-Sangaldan section is significant as it features the usage of ballast less track (BLT) all along the route providing a better ride experience to passengers. India's longest transportation tunnel T-50 (12.77 km) lies in the portion between Khari and Sumber.
The railway projects are expected to improve connectivity, ensure environmental sustainability and boost the overall economic development of the region. The prime minister also inaugurated and laid the foundation stone of several projects worth about Rs 13,500 crore for other parts of the country.
The projects include permanent campuses for IIT Bhilai, IIT Tirupati, IIT Jammu, IIITDM Kancheepuram, Indian Institute of Skills (IIS), a pioneer skills training institute on advanced technologies located at Kanpur, and campuses of Central Sanskrit
University at Devprayag (Uttarakhand) and Agartala (Tripura).
He also inaugurated three new IIMs in the country -- IIM Jammu, IIM Bodh Gaya and IIM Visakhapatnam -- besides 20 new buildings for Kendriya Vidyalayas (KVs) and 13 for new Jawahar Navodaya Vidyalayas (JNVs) buildings across the country.
As part of his government's efforts to provide comprehensive, quality and holistic tertiary-care health services to the people of Jammu and Kashmir, the prime minister also inaugurated the All India Institute of Medical Sciences (AIIMS), Vijaypur
(Samba), Jammu, officials said. The institute, whose foundation stone was laid by him in February 2019, has been established under the central government's 'Pradhan Mantri Swasthya Suraksha Yojana'.
Set up at a cost of over Rs 1,660 crore and in an area spanning over 227 acres, the hospital is equipped with 720 beds, a medical college with 125 seats, a nursing college with 60 seats, an AYUSH block with 30 beds, residential accommodation for faculty and staff, hostel accommodation for UG and PG students and a shopping complex among other facilities.
Among other projects, Modi laid the foundation stone for a new terminal building at the Jammu airport. Spread over 40,000 sqm, the new terminal building will be equipped with modern facilities catering to about 2,000 passengers during peak hours, and will be environment friendly.
Modi laid the foundation stone of important road projects including two stretches (44.22 km) of the Delhi-Amritsar-Katra expressway connecting Jammu to Katra and phase-two for the four-laning of the Srinagar Ring road.
He laid the foundation stone for a project to develop the CUF (Common User Facility) petroleum depot at Jammu as well.
https://www.deccanherald.com/india/...development-projects-in-jammu-kashmir-2901867
than what should be Kashmiris be appeased with?Kashmiris can't be appeased with it. They want total salvation from Indian occupation.
First - I did not call it normal. It's been abnormal from a long time and I'm sure it will remain so for a long time. The type of abnormality will change though. I have no scientific basis to state this because there's been no census since 2011 but within 5-10 years, I think the population mix of residents will change dramatically. The percentage of 'Kashmiris' in Kashmir while not a minority will definitely drop significantly in proportion. A lot of outsiders are settling there.I dont know how can you call situation in IOK normal despite the fact that your 9 lac strength strong army still there.
That's because until now the kashmiri youth have been fed with all the bs. Once economic opportunities come, wealth and good lifestyle is all a person needs. If i were you, I would be worried about POK because if Indian Kashmir actually develops in the next decade then POK would desperately want to be a part of it.Kashmiris can't be appeased with it. They want total salvation from Indian occupation.
First - I did not call it normal. It's been abnormal from a long time and I'm sure it will remain so for a long time. The type of abnormality will change though. I have no scientific basis to state this because there's been no census since 2011 but within 5-10 years, I think the population mix of residents will change dramatically. The percentage of 'Kashmiris' in Kashmir while not a minority will definitely drop significantly in proportion. A lot of outsiders are settling there.
Second - I'm not sure where you get the 9 lac number. There's no official data (I googled) and it's highly unlikely that it's 900K soldiers. That would be 75% of the Indian Military and they've got a bunch of other borders to protect.
So was your govt sleeping for the past 75+ yearsThat's because until now the kashmiri youth have been fed with all the bs. Once economic opportunities come, wealth and good lifestyle is all a person needs. If i were you, I would be worried about POK because if Indian Kashmir actually develops in the next decade then POK would desperately want to be a part of it.
Oh you're talking about the buildup in 2019 when the changes were made. Maybe it's continued and maybe not but it's unlikely. The stress on the military would be unbelievable. They'd cancelled every leave and pulled in every spare soldier from everywhere for that buildup.Forces deploy 1 million to guard Kashmir Valley
Army, paramilitary likely to remain in strength in Kashmir till UTs created, elections held.www.asianage.com
So was your govt sleeping for the past 75+ years
than what should be Kashmiris be appeased with?
This is exactly what Kashmiris want.
The issue on our side is that we dont do development due to the special status, while local Pakistanis have started to own land by doing fraud.
If Indian side of Kashmir starts having access to great quality education than offcourse the population will love it
Perhaps you can say that but in the first 50 years, there wasn't much to chose between India and Pakistan for them. For far too long, Kashmir was seen from 'guarding it from Pakistan' perspective, now with that fear gone completely in the last few years, government is looking at it independently and guess who has it partnered with for a lot of infra projects investment in Kashmir - government of Dubai.Forces deploy 1 million to guard Kashmir Valley
Army, paramilitary likely to remain in strength in Kashmir till UTs created, elections held.www.asianage.com
So was your govt sleeping for the past 75+ years
Whether there is development or not, the army will stay there.If they love it, then why would you need such large numbers of troops there? Even the poster you are quoting is saying that the method to bring such change to the valley will be to replace the existing population with a different one. I am guessing the makeup will be mostly hindu to replace the Muslim population which currently populates it.
Whether there is development or not, the army will stay there.
So why not take the development with the army while having no development and plenty of army.
Like how we have in Baluchistan. Army and army funding politicians with 0 development.
does it matter now? Once the special status was removed this was going to happen.I see you are ignoring the part about replacing the current population with settlers from outside. Where do you think the current population will go to make room for the settlers?
does it matter now? Once the special status was removed this was going to happen.
Also, in Pakistan we are doing something similar by buying land and conducting business, when in law local pakistanis are not allowed to do it.
Thing is, both sides are involved in practises but in different ways.
you can keep deflecting and pretend to be ignorant.I don't know which part of Pakistan you are referring to but this thread is about Kashmir. Maybe start a new thread about the local areas you are talking about. On this particular topic you have expressed your support and admiration for ethnic cleansing by the hindutva govt of India of Muslim population of IOK. So that is fine, we know where you stand on it.
This I agree with.. Maybe if China and Pakistan invade India together, it can be achieved.
This I agree with.
During the above invasion Pakistan should take over East Pakistan as well and do what they did to the East Pakistanis before the liberation...
It can be achieved.
Forget Pakistan losing Indian Kashmir, imo in 10 years Indian Kashmir's economy would be worth way more than the entire Pakistan's economy....
Pakistan might be in danger of POK wanting to join India....
The world with unparalleled levels of delusion.I am okay with Bangladesh and Pakistan merging again as long as country remains a Muslim state.
But, what I really prefer is something like an Ottoman Empire and both Pakistan and Bangladesh joining that.
Anyway, China can definitely liberate Kashmir. India is no match to China militarily.
People love talking about Pakistan wanting whole Kashmir, but with that comes a big population of Hindus. What will Pakistan do with that Hindu population? I know for a fact that knowing my country where i live, these people will never give rights to the Hindu population if by any chance we get a large population of them by getting Jammu. Same issue with Budhist living in Ladakh...Kashmir can be freed same way India annexed Portugese Goa. That's the only option. But, doing that may result in many human losses on both sides.
So, freeing of Kashmir is unlikely to happen soon. Maybe if China and Pakistan invade India together, it can be achieved.
Good luck convincing your countrymen!I am okay with Bangladesh and Pakistan merging again as long as country remains a Muslim state.
But, what I really prefer is something like an Ottoman Empire and both Pakistan and Bangladesh joining that.
Anyway, China can definitely liberate Kashmir. India is no match to China militarily.
Mughals didn't do anything much except build a few Mahals and eat their Biriyanis.Why do Indians complain about Mughals then?
Mughals also made Indian subcontinent prosperous.
Mughals didn't do anything much except build a few Mahals and eat their Biriyanis.
The only invaders that made any meaningful contribution are the British, even though it was for their selfish needs, they built the rail network, bridges and roads which the Indians still use for meaningful purposes today
you can keep deflecting and pretend to be ignorant.
This thread is about Kashmir, and i clearly implied about Pakistan side Kashmir.
Whats funny is how you assumed i support ethnic cleansing.
You will keep on worrying about what happens in India Kashmir while ignore the same happening in Pakistan kashmir
You're probably referring to me as the Indian poster.You responded positively to an Indian poster specifically spelling out that development in IOK is linked to gradually replacing the inhabitants with settlers who we both know will be majority religion and specifically non-Muslim. At the moment the current Muslim majority lives under the gun with hundreds of thousands of troops locking them down from freedom of movement.
This is what you approve, and that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. Why do you need to resort to whataboutism to justify it? You can just say you like it and wish you were part of it if that is how you feel. I don't understand why people on here are so evasive.
How is it whataboutism?You responded positively to an Indian poster specifically spelling out that development in IOK is linked to gradually replacing the inhabitants with settlers who we both know will be majority religion and specifically non-Muslim. At the moment the current Muslim majority lives under the gun with hundreds of thousands of troops locking them down from freedom of movement.
This is what you approve, and that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion. Why do you need to resort to whataboutism to justify it? You can just say you like it and wish you were part of it if that is how you feel. I don't understand why people on here are so evasive.
I am okay with Bangladesh and Pakistan merging again as long as country remains a Muslim state.
But, what I really prefer is something like an Ottoman Empire and both Pakistan and Bangladesh joining that.
Anyway, China can definitely liberate Kashmir. India is no match to China militarily.
You're probably referring to me as the Indian poster.
I actually don't think the change in the population make-up is some kind of evil master plan (though it might be. I have no evidence to the contrary).
What seems to be happening from anecdotal evidence is that a lot of Kashmiri youngsters are leaving or being forced by their parents to leave the valley to avoid getting involved in the 'troubles.' Some who can, go abroad especially to the Gulf. Those who can't, well...sometimes it seems to me that there are more Kashmiris in Mumbai than in Srinagar. Every small shop on Mohammed Ali road - mobile repair, dry fruits etc. seems to be run by a Kashmiri. I've seen a large population in Gurgaon as well - a lot of them working in BPOs.
How is it whataboutism?
So wait, we should not see Kashmir as a whole, infact we should also ignore ignore Jamu and Ladekh, and just talk about Kashmir valley?
You are being defensive because for you its ok what ever Pakistan side does with Kashmir, but hell will broke out if India does something on the Kashmir in there side.
Also its not a majority as you say it is. Each region of the disputed area has a seperate religious majority. Kashmir Valley Muslims, Ladekh i would guess is Budhist and Jamu is Hindu
Mughals didn't do anything much except build a few Mahals and eat their Biriyanis.
I'm new yes. And you're probably right...there is an undercurrent of that in the Modi government decision on abrogation of Article 370 and removal of special status. There was probably some hope that the commingling of folks from the rest of India after the changes would eventually render the Kashmir question moot.You are a relatively new poster - or maybe an older poster under a new identity - but assuming you are new, there have been other threads down the years where Indian posters themselves have suggested that the changes in regulations around IOK were designed to open up Kashmir to settlers from outside. The general view has been that it is an attempt to change the demographic to a more Modi-friendly one shall we say.
I'm new yes. And you're probably right...there is an undercurrent of that in the Modi government decision on abrogation of Article 370 and removal of special status. There was probably some hope that the commingling of folks from the rest of India after the changes would eventually render the Kashmir question moot.
I'm very much a realpolitik guy...not an idealist. And while I don't agree with the way the changes were implemented without public consensus and possibly some kind of referendum, I agree it was probably for the best. There has to be an end to the cycle of endless violence. Giving them a choice of independence is just not practically possible for India. We're just not that secure enough as a Nation that we can offer it like the UK did to Scotland. If that's not possible, development combined with tighter integration is the best future for the Kashmiris.
Maybe I was just reporting that whether deliberately intended or not, it seems to be working slowly and steadily. Tourist arrivals are back to near historic peaks, big investments are ongoing, change is in the air. It's a pity the State is virtually emptied out of young men and seems to be losing it's unique character to an extent but it's better than the alternative.
Yep you're right. There's a strong need for equal opportunity legislation in India. All the discourse currently is around reservation in government jobs & educational institutes but it does need to move on from that to equal opportunity (not reservation) in areas like private sector jobs & housing.Well at least you are honest. But co-mingling should work both ways, if you can have it in Kashmir, there should be no barriers to Muslims buying prestige homes in Mumbai. A few Indian celebriities have complained about the unwritten rules which prevent them doing so in some areas.
Public sector and State needs to provide equal opportunity, because they control public resources.Yep you're right. There's a strong need for equal opportunity legislation in India. All the discourse currently is around reservation in government jobs & educational institutes but it does need to move on from that to equal opportunity (not reservation) in areas like private sector jobs & housing.
There's nothing a dravidian loves more than defending his Mughal overlordsPHD of History right here.
There's nothing a dravidian loves more than defending his Mughal overlords
Public sector and State needs to provide equal opportunity, because they control public resources.
Private individuals hold no burden for equal opportunity. Are you saying there must be a law that when a muslim hires a cook, he has to be an equal opportunity employer, and if he hires mostly muslims then he should be prosecuted? Muslims who buy mostly from muslims should be prosecuted because they are not being equal opportunity?
What a joke!
Public sector and State needs to provide equal opportunity, because they control public resources.
Private individuals hold no burden for equal opportunity. Are you saying there must be a law that when a muslim hires a cook, he has to be an equal opportunity employer, and if he hires mostly muslims then he should be prosecuted? Muslims who buy mostly from muslims should be prosecuted because they are not being equal opportunity?
What a joke!
Yep you're right. There's a strong need for equal opportunity legislation in India. All the discourse currently is around reservation in government jobs & educational institutes but it does need to move on from that to equal opportunity (not reservation) in areas like private sector jobs & housing.
The Muslim community is probably not in the strongest position to raise the topic when the party in power is one that doesn't look for their support at all to win (though they can bring it up at a State level in several States). The issue though can be raised by groups like Scheduled & Other Backward Caste communities which are currently very powerful politically. There are model laws in countries in the West where it's possible to punish bigoted landlords & employers that discriminate against someone on the basis of religion, caste, sexual preference or colour. I'm not sure they work perfectly anywhere but they're a definite help especially in the most egregious cases.
As a personal anecdote, my in-laws rent out a couple of apartments and they refuse to rent to anyone who cooks non-vegetarian which obviously means certain communities and castes. This despite knowing that me who's married to their daughter eats meat and enjoys an occasional drink. It's obviously hypocrisy but I'm not going to change their mind by arguing.
This is a basic concept which many indians don't get, but I will try to explain.They shouldn't explicitly discriminate. Like say advertising for a muslim cook should be illegal, no ?
You know what, I actually agree with you, the obsession with the Mughals is tiresome, no idea why Bhakts still spend all their caring about them and it's not possible to change history.There's nothing to defend or offend - recorded history is a fact and the cabbie down under needed to be called out as such.
As for you, it's been 300+ years since the Mughals were relevant. If you're still getting nightmares about Aurangzeb, please consult a therapist.
I feel like I've had this exact discussion on whether India is a Hindu nation or a secular one with your or someone like you before so I won't rehash. I'm not even fully clear on the definition of secularism so it's tough to debate. I would just say on the spectrum between a completely religion neutral country (France) and a deeply religious country which fully favors a single state religion (Afghanistan), we're in the middle somewhere with currently strongish forces pulling towards what I consider the wrong side.Which is fine, like I said it works both ways. Either let each community get on with sorting their own stuff out according to their own traditions, or if you want to be secular, apply it across the board without discrimination. You can't stick troops outside every street in Kashmir to enforce compliance with regulations targeted at one group, then wink and turn a blind eye to the majority as they practice their own form of apartheid in other states. At least not if you want to use terms like secular.
You are talking of firms, not individuals. And read the link you shared for housing act, and see its exclusionsLots of countries have it. I'll put one example here.
US - Equal Employment Opportunity Act covering all firms Private & Public with 15 or more employees. Fair Housing Act which forbids discrimination in most housing-related activities, including buying, selling, renting, or financing, based on race, color, sex, national origin, or religion.
Hmm what’s your view on halal?They shouldn't explicitly discriminate. Like say advertising for a muslim cook should be illegal, no ?
One can't change history, but one mustn't forget it either.You know what, I actually agree with you, the obsession with the Mughals is tiresome, no idea why Bhakts still spend all their caring about them and it's not possible to change history.
But there were cruel barbarians, there's no need to defend them either, they should be forgotten about and left alone.
No point being glib when you're not aware of the situation. That's the Federal Act. State Laws can use this as minimum...can tighten rules but can't relax them. Most States have passed laws. Most of the Dem States have tightened them a lot further and removed most of the exclusions. Feel free to research.You are talking of firms, not individuals. And read the link you shared for housing act, and see its exclusions
This is a basic concept which many indians don't get, but I will try to explain.
Secularism is a quality of state, not an individual. State controls public resources, therefore state cannot and should not discriminate, and should treat every one equally.
Secularism is simply separation of church and state, not church and individual. Every time I see an indian who says he is secular, I see an idiot. Secularism by definition cannot be applied to individual.
And individual is owner of private property. Therefore he is within his rights to use his property to help his community.
Communal is NOT a bad word. It only means pertaining to community. Ambedkar was communal. He worked for upliftment of his community. Muslims are communal, they work for their community. Christians are communal. Communal is NOT a bad word.
A muslim doing business with muslim is not wrong. In fact people should help their communities. The only exception is when a community is really backward/weak and needs upliftment, and other communities can help them. Even then, the intervention must come from the state. But some muddled indians have problem with revenue of one province being used for a weaker province (say north east) and then they talk about applying equal opportunity on the individual.
Again, I am talking about individuals, not firms.Of course, we can choose to do business with whoever we want and associate with whoever we want. But the parameters to explicitly ( <- key word here) discriminate cannot be certain protected traits like race, religion etc.. The concept involved here is employment discrimination. Imagine if a massive private company like Infosys says we don't hire mulsim engineers, that would be fine with you ?
Bigotry At Home: How Delhi, Mumbai Keep Muslim Tenants Out
Exclusion, segregation of Muslim tenants are the norm even in India’s most diverse, cosmopolitan cities, reveal findings of a three-year study on discrimination in housing. From owners to brokers, from flat-mates to social media, a web of factors limits Muslims to Muslim-only localitieswww.article-14.com
Which indian company doesnt hire muslims?No point being glib when you're not aware of the situation. That's the Federal Act. State Laws can use this as minimum...can tighten rules but can't relax them. Most States have passed laws. Most of the Dem States have tightened them a lot further and removed most of the exclusions. Feel free to research.
By the way, I'm not advocating putting my inlaws in prison. Just saying we need start thinking about laws preventing discrimination and promoting equal opportunity even in the Private Sector. Enforcement at an individual level is hard anyway but if we can prevent the worst cases - companies that don't hire Muslims because they'll take namaz breaks or hotels that don't rent rooms to transgenders because they give them the "ick", we've made substantial progress.
Hmm what’s your view on halal?