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Hashim Amla | The Mega Discussion Thread

wake me up when amla plays a knock like Dhoni did yesterday....

a chocker. boosts avg in JAMODIS and in tournaments, always a flop.
 
Hashim Amla - a potential ODI choker?

Kiwi said:
Didn't Amla make 80-90 odd in a crunch game :13: Your logic is baffling.
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Yeah he did. But ended up an average of 30 in the tournament overall. Very poor by his JAMODI standards.
 
Hashim Amla - a potential ODI choker?

Kohli has a lot to prove in MODIs. I have already clearly mentioned that. But, he's still growing as a player and hasn't even hit his peak years yet and will get his chance in a lot more ICC events.

Amla is 30 now. At the peak of his powers and has potentially got only one ICC event left to play - the 2015 WC. He needs to start delivering soon.
 
Hashim Amla - a potential ODI choker?

2015 WC will be Kohli's biggest test till date. He'd be 26 and with experience of around 6-7 years of playing regularly for India. If he has a poor tournament, watch out for my thread :msd
 
Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
Kohli has a lot to prove in MODIs. I have already clearly mentioned that. But, he's still growing as a player and hasn't even hit his peak years yet and will get his chance in a lot more ICC events.

Amla is 30 now. At the peak of his powers and has potentially got only one ICC event left to play - the 2015 WC. He needs to start delivering soon.
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Actually I disagree, I think it's only downhill for Kohli, he's played so well that I can't see him bettering what he's done so early on. He could improve in tests but I think he's done all that he can in ODI's. I think he'll score more centuries of course but I don't see him doing anything more in ODI's because of it's confined/limited nature and his fantastic start. Tests are the true test for Kohli, as it should be for every player.
 
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Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
2015 WC will be Kohli's biggest test till date. He'd be 26 and with experience of around 6-7 years of playing regularly for India. If he has a poor tournament, watch out for my thread :msd
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Agreed.

2015 WC will be to Kohli, what 1996 WC was to Sachin.
 
Hashim Amla - a potential ODI choker?

Well the jury is out on Kohli's long term prospects. Hard to say if he will continue like this but people said the same about Tendulkar and Ponting. Only for them to continue piling up the runs year after year.
 
Kiwi thread is bout ODI, not test. look at the title. come with ODI innings, not test.
 
Hashim Amla - a potential ODI choker?

It's a narrow way of looking at things but that's how it is. To make an analogy in football terms, Messi has been amazing for Argentina for more than a year now but people are still waiting to see what he does in the World Cup next summer. Once the test championship comes to life, it's performances will mean a whole lot more than random test matches.
 
Hashim Amla - a potential ODI choker?

Itachi said:
Kiwi thread is bout ODI, not test. look at the title. come with ODI innings, not test.
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It's the same as Steyn's inswingers. The best Steyn bandwagon can do is plug out a years old YouTube video of how he castled Bell with one. But it's painfully obvious that he cannot bowl one.
 
Itachi said:
Kiwi thread is bout ODI, not test. look at the title. come with ODI innings, not test.
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He's only played 70 odd ODI's maybe if he plays a few more you might find a innings better or similar to the one Dhoni played last night. They also play different roles a better comparison would have been Sachin who plays in the top order. That being said there is little to no chance of Amla becoming a better ODI player than Dhoni. AB on the other hand could push the case.
 
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kiwi said:
He's only played 70 odd ODI's maybe if he plays a few more you might find a innings better or similar to the one Dhoni played last night. They also play different roles a better comparison would have been Sachin who plays in the top order.
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ok. then give me ODI innings played by amla which is equivalent to the ones which he played against australia in 98 in sharjah.
 
Pointless bump really. Amla is playing a dif role and is pretty good at it. Like Kiwi said, better comparison would be between similar top order players like Tendulkar and Ponting and well i would say Amla is still far from the level of those legends but a very good one nonetheless. :)
 
Hashim Amla - a potential ODI choker?

Comparing Amla with Tendulkar? :)))
 
Hashim Amla - a potential ODI choker?

freelance_cricketer said:
Pointless bump really. Amla is playing a dif role and is pretty good at it. Like Kiwi said, better comparison would be between similar top order players like Tendulkar and Ponting and well i would say Amla is still far from the level of those legends but a very good one nonetheless. :)
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I didn't bump because of :msd

I bumped because of the ODI series in SL. Watch how Amla turns into Bradman once JAMODIS season gets underway.
 
Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
Comparing Amla with Tendulkar?
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was surprised too. One is a legend. Other is a chocker. but let's see what arguemnts come.
 
Kiwi said:
It's not as far fetched as you might think, he's one of the best ODI players going around along with AB and Kohli.
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For either of them to be compared to Tendulkar, i would like to see how much they average after 250 ODI's or after scoring 10,000 runs.

Even Kevin Pietersen averaged 55+ in his first 75 ODI's or something if i'm not mistaken.
Now he sits pretty on a average of 42.
 
kiwi said:
It's not as far fetched as you might think, he's one of the best ODI players going around along with AB and Kohli.
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Define best.

1. is it only avg?

2. or avg with memorable knocks when the team needs most?

if it is 1st, then amla is best.

if 2nd, Amla lags behind even against raina.
 
Itachi said:
Define best.

1. is it only avg?

2. or avg with memorable knocks when the team needs most?

if it is 1st, then amla is best.

if 2nd, Amla lags behind even against raina.
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Memorable knocks are few and far between unless you're :msd
Average and a combination of other things such as S.R, performances away from home etc are probably the best KPIs.
 
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Hashim Amla - a potential ODI choker?

Kiwi said:
It's not as far fetched as you might think, he's one of the best ODI players going around along with AB and Kohli.
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When comparing two players, keeping in mind the sample size is very important.

You simply cannot compare a player with 450+ ODIs to a player with 70 odd and then bring up their respective averages and strike rates.
 
Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
When comparing two players, keeping in mind the sample size is very important.

You simply cannot compare a player with 450+ ODIs to a player with 70 odd and then bring up their respective averages and strike rates.
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Yeah in hindsight a poor choice but I was just randomly choosing a top order batsmen and Tendulkar just happened to come to mind :))
 
Hashim Amla - a potential ODI choker?

Kiwi said:
Yeah in hindsight a poor choice but I was just randomly choosing a top order batsmen and Tendulkar just happened to come to mind :))
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You are just clutching on straws having lost the argument completely.
 
Itachi said:
ok kiwi, 70 odd match and none memorable knocks. agreed?
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I haven't seen all 70 innings, we don't get all SA games broadcasted but the 100 and record partnership with AB against Pakistan recently was pretty special.
 
Hashim Amla - a potential ODI choker?

Kiwi said:
Go ahead and name a player currently playing who you can compare to Sachin... It's not an easy task..
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What is Tendulkar doing in this discussion?
 
kiwi said:
I haven't seen all 70 innings, we don't get all SA games broadcasted but the 100 and record partnership with AB against Pakistan recently was pretty special.
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that was nothing spectacular to be honest. and it was in a league match.

but none the less, you should have been realise it by now, how hard it is to come up with a meaningful contribution from amla (in odi). it just shows Mamoon_Ghaffar is indeed probably right.
 
Itachi said:
that was nothing spectacular to be honest. and it was in a league match.

but none the less, you should have been realise it by now, how hard it is to come up with a meaningful contribution from amla (in odi). it just shows Mamoon_Ghaffar is indeed probably right.
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Well he's actually only played a handful knockout games in 70 games, so it's too early to judge as his ODI career is still fairly young. 11 hundreds in 70 odd games is still impressive nonetheless.
 
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Itachi said:
that was nothing spectacular to be honest. and it was in a league match.

but none the less, you should have been realise it by now, how hard it is to come up with a meaningful contribution from amla (in odi). it just shows Mamoon_Ghaffar is indeed probably right.
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How many "special" or "spectacular" innings Tendulkar played in 70 odd initial matches of his career ?
 
kiwi said:
Well he's actually only played a handful knockout games in 70 games, so it's too early to judge as his ODI career is still fairly young. 11 hundreds in 70 odd games is still impressive nonetheless.
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i never said his odi carrier isn't unimpressive. my point is, he fails to deliver when it matters most. otherwise, he makes run for fun.
 
vicky_iisc said:
How many "special" or "spectacular" innings Tendulkar played in 70 odd initial matches of his career ?
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tendu wasn't a chocker. he was an average odi batsman at the initial period.
 
vicky_iisc said:
How many "special" or "spectacular" innings Tendulkar played in 70 odd initial matches of his career ?
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Tendulkar's first 70 odd games came as a teenager.

Amla is at the peak of his powers now.

When Tendulkar was around Amla's age, he won the player of the tournament award in the 2003 World Cup having scored a good 200 runs more than the second top scorer.
 
Itachi said:
i never said his odi carrier isn't unimpressive. my point is, he fails to deliver when it matters most. otherwise, he makes run for fun.
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Tendulkar failed when it mattered most as well, but that didn't make him any less of a batsmen now did it?
 
Itachi said:
tendu wasn't a chocker. he was an average odi batsman at the initial period.
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this argument does not suit.. what is it about average ODI batsman initially ?? He was very good, only did not score a hundred till 79th game.. that doesn't mean he was average.
 
vicky_iisc said:
How many "special" or "spectacular" innings Tendulkar played in 70 odd initial matches of his career ?
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At the time. It was spectacular. He was a kid and the ease at which he used to score runs at faster pace then rest of his teammates was exciting enough.
 
Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
Tendulkar's first 70 odd games came as a teenager.

Amla is at the peak of his powers now.

When Tendulkar was around Amla's age, he won the player of the tournament award in the 2003 World Cup having scored a good 200 runs more than the second top scorer.
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The whole argument of age is slowly becoming trivial. Tendulkar played some of his best cricket towards the back end of his career and Kohli was probably in career best form which he'll probably never beat early on in his career, there is no longer a specific age for ones prime now.
 
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bin_pendi_ka_lota said:
At the time. It was spectacular. He was a kid and the ease at which he used to score runs at faster pace then rest of his teammates was exciting enough.
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This is not the point of the discussion.. please read a few earlier posts on why Tendulkar is being discussed.
 
Kiwi said:
Tendulkar failed when it mattered most as well, but that didn't make him any less of a batsmen now did it?
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Failed when it mattered most?

Most runs in World Cup history at an average of 57.

Most hundreds and fifties in the World Cup.


But you are gonna nitpick on the World Cup finals to suit your argument.

Amla can get a golden duck in the 2015 World Cup final but nobody's gonna care if he carries his team throughout the tournament and ends up top scorer anyway.
 
Kiwi said:
The whole argument of age is slowly becoming trivial. Tendulkar played some of his best cricket towards the back end of his career and Kohli was probably in career best form which he'll probably never beat early on in his career.
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That remains to be seen.

I personally think Kohli will reach the level of Tendulkar and Ponting.

I'm sure early comparisons of Tendulkar to Gavaskar would have made a lot of people laugh too.
 
Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
Failed when it mattered most?

Most runs in World Cup history at an average of 57.

Most hundreds and fifties in the World Cup.


But you are gonna nitpick on the World Cup finals to suit your argument.

Amla can get a golden duck in the 2015 World Cup final but nobody's gonna care if he carries his team throughout the tournament and ends up top scorer anyway.
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You asked for matter most, so that's finals mate :P
 
It isn't trivial. You cannot a compare a player at his peak to an upcoming player with huge potential.

That is like saying Ronaldo is better than Neymar. Of course he is at the moment.
 
Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
Tendulkar's first 70 odd games came as a teenager.

Amla is at the peak of his powers now.

When Tendulkar was around Amla's age, he won the player of the tournament award in the 2003 World Cup having scored a good 200 runs more than the second top scorer.
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You also have to realize almost all SA batsmen are chokers.. so Amla has to fight against the tradition.

Tendulkar scored 1 match saving century in Eng, 2 centuries in Aus which are considered best to have been seen by many.. on his first two overseas tours in Test matches.. what teenager ?
 
Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
I'm sure early comparisons of Tendulkar to Gavaskar would have made a lot of people laugh too.
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Not many.. Tendulkar is the only player in my memory who was tipped to be the best in the world and one of the ATG before his 1st year in international cricket was over. He only fulfilled those expectations..

Merv Hughes told to his captain in that Test series of 92 : This kid is going to get more runs than you AB.. he is very good.
 
kiwi said:
Tendulkar failed when it mattered most as well, but that didn't make him any less of a batsmen now did it?
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a batsman can have an offday. Amla can have too. but tendu consistently scored on knock out games. Amla did none. that's what the point is. forget final or semi final or quarter final or super 6. just show me one good knock in knock out match. just one. i'l retrack all my comments and ready to be proven mistake.
 
Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
It isn't trivial. You cannot a compare a player at his peak to an upcoming player with huge potential.

That is like saying Ronaldo is better than Neymar. Of course he is at the moment.
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It isn't difficult to compare when they're relatively in similar positions in terms of the age of their career.
 
You also have to realize almost all SA batsmen are chokers.. so Amla has to fight against the tradition.
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what logic is that?

that means amla is mentally weak too (and hence the "choke")
 
Itachi said:
what logic is that?

that means amla is mentally weak too (and hence the "choke")
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No it was written in jest.. not a serious defence of Amla.. was a jig at all SA batsmen being chokers. but yes, Amla has to take blame for SA never winning any knock out game in WC and recently in any ICC tournament.
 
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Itachi said:
a batsman can have an offday. Amla can have too. but tendu consistently scored on knock out games. Amla did none. that's what the point is. forget final or semi final or quarter final or super 6. just show me one good knock in knock out match. just one. i'l retrack all my comments and ready to be proven mistake.
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He's only played 2 knockout games and 0 super 6 game's, I can't believe I didn't look this up earlier :facepalm:... End of discussion I guess. Sir MG has struck again.
 
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ok. then am making the window even bigger. show one from any ICC multinational trophy.
 
bin_pendi_ka_lota said:
I clarified on part of Tendulkars early career where their was nothing "special" "spectacular" expected from him.
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What is it about not expected from him ? He was India's best batsman early in his career too.. things are expected from the best batsman only, no ?
 
vicky_iisc said:
What is it about not expected from him ? He was India's best batsman early in his career too.. things are expected from the best batsman only, no ?
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He was exciting middle order batsman whose talent was mostly getting wasted. It was against kiwis when he opened for first time we realised his true pottential in odis.
 
Hashim Amla - a potential ODI choker?

soso_killer said:
ok boss, Amla and JP must be Test greats then as they helped SA win a series in Australia, which Tendulkar has never achieved despite playing in a gun team most of his life
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Winning a random series in Australia is not even a percent of winning the World Cup.
 
Mamoon_Ghaffar said:
Winning a random series in Australia is not even a percent of winning the World Cup.
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only 3 teams have won a series in Australia and only two in South Africa so winning in these two countries cant be "random". And i dare say its the "Holly Grail" of test cricket.

5 different teams have won a world cup (WI, AUS, INDIA, PAK, SRI) despite it being played once every 4 years. Australia play atleast two series every year and you only have 3 teams to have won a series in that country. I know which is tougher mate
 
Anyway i dont want this to turn into Test cricket vs ODI's or World Cups.

My main point is if you dont rate Amla because of his performances in World Cups (which you are entitled too by the way), then you cant rate Tendulkar in Test too.

And the same logic of one innings defining a player despite a relatively poor record, then that makes JP "a gun" or great in Test cricket.

All i want is consistency
 
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soso_killer said:
Anyway i dont want this to turn into Test cricket vs ODI's or World Cups.

My main point is if you dont rate Amla because of his performances in World Cups (which you are entitled too by the way), then you cant rate Tendulkar in Test too.

And the same logic of on innings defining a player despite a relatively poor record, then that makes JP "a gun" or great in Test cricket.

All i want is consistency
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There's no credability to his points, Amla has only played in two knock out games. He's made a bold statement after two knock out games, this thread is as credible as Jofferys claim to the throne.
 
Kiwi said:
There's no credability to his points, Amla has only played in two knock out games. He's made a bold statement after two knock out games, this thread is as credible as Jofferys claim to the throne.
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this what confuses me, Dhoni left others to do the job in quarter finals against Australia (that was a knock out game by the way) in the World Cup, again VS Pakistan in the semis were those not "crunch games"?
What about the recent champions Trophy? He played a loose stroke in the final and left others to do the job AGAIN, or was that not "crunch game/situation" too?
The difference for me is Dhoni is playing in team full of players who perform when it matters, Amla is playing with a bunch of Chokers.
 
What is true however is that his not-so-handsomely-bearded partner in crime, AB de Villiers is probably one of the most entertaining ODI batsmen in recent memory
 
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