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Hashim Amla | The Mega Discussion Thread

He has been off colour for a while now (along with AB).

Averages 37 in the last year. Not poor by any means, but poor by Amla standards.
 
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Amla wont be the juggernaut of old. He will get a few hundreds here and there. But i dont expect him to be one of the BITW he was from 2010-14
 
Bilal7 said:
Retiring after the home series against Lanka won't be a bad move. The rest of the golden generation is gone and he doesn't have anything else left to prove in test cricket.

He'll probably want to try and help South Africa win one ODI tournament before leaving so the CT is the obvious retirement party in that format.
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It will be the opposite. He will retire from ODI first, and then tests.

And for those, who are writing him off as past his prime, lets just wait for the end of the series. People had written Steyn off, only for him to come back and prove himself against NZ again. Yes, Steyn is injured and out for 6 months, but he will still pick wickets whenever he will play.
 
Bilal7 said:
Retiring after the home series against Lanka won't be a bad move. The rest of the golden generation is gone and he doesn't have anything else left to prove in test cricket.

He'll probably want to try and help South Africa win one ODI tournament before leaving so the CT is the obvious retirement party in that format.
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Yup he has.

He has to carry on to prove himself an ATG of the game which he deserves.

If he doesn't want that, then uski marzi.
 
Mediocre stats by an even more mediocre player.
 
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[MENTION=129984]LegendAli[/MENTION] You can say a lot of things by Amla but he isnt mediocre. Hes been world class these last few years.
 
Adil_94 said:
[MENTION=129984]LegendAli[/MENTION] You can say a lot of things by Amla but he isnt mediocre. Hes been world class these last few years.
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Is Amla clutch? Does Amla ever deliver when his team needs him? Sure, he's done it a few time but more times than not what has he done for SA?

Forgive me for judging a player based on consistency rather than how many 50s he scores every 6th odd inning.
 
LegendAli said:
Is Amla clutch? Does Amla ever deliver when his team needs him? Sure, he's done it a few time but more times than not what has he done for SA?

Forgive me for judging a player based on consistency rather than how many 50s he scores every 6th odd inning.
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In Test cricket?
 
A lean patch, every batsman in history has gone through one.

I rate him very highly, surely a clutch player in tests.

However i feel one of the criterion to be called an ATG batsman in the modern era is 10,000+ runs at an average of 50+ with a healthy away average. He needs to perform consistently for 3-4 more years to get there.
 
Dead Ball said:
A lean patch, every batsman in history has gone through one.

I rate him very highly, surely a clutch player in tests.

However i feel one of the criterion to be called an ATG batsman in the modern era is 10,000+ runs at an average of 50+ with a healthy away average. He needs to perform consistently for 3-4 more years to get there.
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In terms of volume, South Africa don't play as many matches as England etc. thus he has less than 8,000 even after playing for so long. For comparison, Amla has played the most Test matches for South Africa in the past 10 years - 88. In the same period, Cook has played... 126.

He has a very balanced record in most countries where he has played a decent number of matches.
 
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Adil_94 said:
do u not think Amla is an ATG already in Tests.
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The question is do fans call him as an ATG now?

Well....from the lack of buzz....I must say no.

Quality wise...he is ATG material. Maybe if he carries on a bit longer, he will get the tag.
 
Sidilicious said:
It will be the opposite. He will retire from ODI first, and then tests.

And for those, who are writing him off as past his prime, lets just wait for the end of the series. People had written Steyn off, only for him to come back and prove himself against NZ again. Yes, Steyn is injured and out for 6 months, but he will still pick wickets whenever he will play.
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ODIs have landmarks in the form of WCs and CTs so players who are good enough in this format will likely retire at those landmarks. So if Amla's form and body is up for it the earliest he will retire will be next year's CT and the latest will be the 2019 WC. Same goes for de Villiers and Faf.

In tests, there are no such landmarks so players who are not concerned with individual records will go when they feel they don't add much to the team. Amla is one of these players so a retirement after the series against Sri Lanka isn't out of the question.

He is past his prime. Most players at 34 years of age are past their prime.
 
sensible-indian-fan said:
Yup he has.

He has to carry on to prove himself an ATG of the game which he deserves.

If he doesn't want that, then uski marzi.
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Why would he carry on? He's played 100 test matches, has a balanced record, great innings all over the world and was a crucial cog in one of the greatest teams of all time. He is already an ATG.

Unless de Villiers is gone for good, Amla isn't needed in the team anymore if he isn't averaging 50+ anymore.
 
[MENTION=129984]LegendAli[/MENTION] in Tests Amla is pretty clutch. Hes more clutch than AB has been in Tests. In ODIS he has flopped in big tournaments but hes a clutch Test bat.
 
LegendAli said:
You guys are overrating him big time and it's not even funny, Amla is not that good.
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WTH Lmao..

Amla is anything but overrated in tests. Has the best temperament among the players now and a great test cricketer arguably the best of the last 3 or 4 years.

I rate him as a borderline ATG, will consider him an ATG with 2 more years of performance at the top or atleast one.

Not as good as his stats in the shorter format though.
 
LegendAli said:
You guys are overrating him big time and it's not even funny, Amla is not that good.
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He is the best test batsman in the last 5-6 years. He is very clutch in the test format. Don't confuse formats here.
 
This from statsman Shaiva Jayaraman: Amla's last away fifty-plus score was in Galle in 2014 (139*). Since then he hasn't made a fifty in ten away Tests and averages just 14.46 from 13 inns
 
Sin Nombre said:
This from statsman Shaiva Jayaraman: Amla's last away fifty-plus score was in Galle in 2014 (139*). Since then he hasn't made a fifty in ten away Tests and averages just 14.46 from 13 inns
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Those are really poor numbers for a player of his caliber.
 
Even his average is struggling to remain above 50 :amla hashim bhai is well and truly done at this level i suppose.
 
He's hazelwoods bunny atm, South Africa won't want him to retire yet as they will need his experience in England. Wouldn't be surprised if if that's his last tour if he continues in current form vs Sri Lanka and New Zealand.
 
Adijazz1706 said:
All Saffers have a lack of buzz, even Kallis who is the best batting A/R imo.
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Well, Amla's african contemporaries have a lot of buzz around them (Dale Steyn and ABDV, with the latter being somewhat over-rated in tests)

How Amla copes with this slump, will determine whether he will go down as an ATG test batsman or not. For me, he was surely the best test batsman in the world between 2011-2014 types.

He doesn't seem to have problems at home, the way he plundered England earlier this year. Its in away tests, that he has been rubbish lately. So i expect him to come back into form when a weak Lankan attack visits SA next month. Should do his confidence good.
 
He should retire before his average dip below 50. The usual benchmark for ATG is to have an average of more than 50 in test cricket. Many great players did the same mistake by playing for too long despite being way past their prime, which resulted in not-so-great stats in an otherwise wonderful career. He should go Sangakkara way, retiring on a high or when you think are past it. He is a wonderful player and a great human being. Not many averaged 50+ in both tests and odis.
 
Amla could retire from ODI's & T20s to focus on Tests. That is where his legacy will lie & that is where SA needs him most .
 
He's been out to some very good balls. Nothing to be concerned about. Looked in very good touch at Hobart. Played a key innings.
 
Something seems off about Amla recently doesnt have the same aura about him. I want him to get to 10k runs at least before he retires.
 
Amla should focus on Tests only now.....

I don't want that Average to drop below 50 :(
 
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The impact hasn't been the same for Amla in the last two years.

Went missing completely in India..

Some dead runner runs vs England apart from the 200..

Went missing vs NZ..

Has went missing out completely in Aus with 1 inning to go..
 
Amla's Test Stats in 2016
[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td] Amla [/td][td]Mat [/td][td]Runs [/td][td]Ave [/td][td]SR [/td][td]100 [/td][td]50 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Overall [/td][td]97 [/td][td]7523 [/td][td]50.15 [/td][td]50.3 [/td][td]25 [/td][td]31 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]In 2016 [/td][td]8 [/td][td]616 [/td][td]51.33 [/td][td]50.82 [/td][td]2 [/td][td]3 [/td][/tr]
[/table]

[table=width: 500, class: grid, align: center]
[tr][td]Runs [/td][td]Opposition [/td][td]Ground [/td][td]Start Date [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]201 [/td][td]v England [/td][td]Cape Town [/td][td]2-Jan-16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]40 [/td][td]v England [/td][td]Johannesburg [/td][td]14-Jan-16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]5 [/td][td]v England [/td][td]Johannesburg [/td][td]14-Jan-16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]109 [/td][td]v England [/td][td]Centurion [/td][td]22-Jan-16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]96 [/td][td]v England [/td][td]Centurion [/td][td]22-Jan-16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]53 [/td][td]v New Zealand [/td][td]Durban [/td][td]19-Aug-16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]58 [/td][td]v New Zealand [/td][td]Centurion [/td][td]27-Aug-16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1 [/td][td]v New Zealand [/td][td]Centurion [/td][td]27-Aug-16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]0 [/td][td]v Australia [/td][td]Perth [/td][td]3-Nov-16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1 [/td][td]v Australia [/td][td]Perth [/td][td]3-Nov-16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]47 [/td][td]v Australia [/td][td]Hobart [/td][td]12-Nov-16 [/td][/tr]
[tr][td]5 [/td][td]v Australia [/td][td]Adelaide [/td][td]24-Nov-16 [/td][/tr]
[/table]
 
Bilal7 said:
Why would he carry on? He's played 100 test matches, has a balanced record, great innings all over the world and was a crucial cog in one of the greatest teams of all time. He is already an ATG.

Unless de Villiers is gone for good, Amla isn't needed in the team anymore if he isn't averaging 50+ anymore.
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No batsmen is going to be called a great with less than 8K runs .
 
Amla an ATG :)) How standards have fallen.

He is a good batsman who had one supremely good purple patch. That is what he is and he will never be an ATG.
 
Agreed SA great may be, but ATG? That's stretching it
 
Hashim Amla shows signs of desperation.

anyone who has seen Amlas international career knows that he is one of the most honest humble guys in the cricketing world. He always walks when he's nicked it even sometimes when there isnt an appeal i remember in 2009 vs Aus he nicked it and no one appealed yet he walked off. But today he nicked it and was given out yet he referred it when there was a big mark on hotspot and the decision remained out. Is this a sign of Amlas desperation because he fears that he is on the decline.
 
Saw that as well but maybe just maybe he wasn't sure,if he reviewed it he probably wasn't sure.He is declining no doubt and has been a bunny of Hazlewood this tour but lets not look into it more than a dismissal which Amla wasn't sure of.
 
Yes, and it is a normal reaction. Anyone in his position would have done the same.

Slippery slope for his annoying fans who hail his character though.
 
His average will drop below 50 soon most likely
 
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] im surprised that such a beautiful human being and role model like Amla would review it when there was a big mark on hot spot. Didnt expect that from a man like him.
 
Adil_94 said:
[MENTION=131701]Mamoon[/MENTION] im surprised that such a beautiful human being and role model like Amla would review it when there was a big mark on hot spot. Didnt expect that from a man like him.
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Yes, it is challenge for his fans.
 
Adil_94 said:
anyone who has seen Amlas international career knows that he is one of the most honest humble guys in the cricketing world. He always walks when he's nicked it even sometimes when there isnt an appeal i remember in 2009 vs Aus he nicked it and no one appealed yet he walked off. But today he nicked it and was given out yet he referred it when there was a big mark on hotspot and the decision remained out. Is this a sign of Amlas desperation because he fears that he is on the decline.
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Mamoon said:
Yes, and it is a normal reaction. Anyone in his position would have done the same.

Slippery slope for his annoying fans who hail his character though.
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The ball also grazed his pad which is why he reviewed it. More than Amla's character, this sort of thing speaks more about the people criticizing him for the review. It's not like he didn't walk when the umpire didn't give him out and the Aussies didn't have any reviews left.

Hazlewood has definitely frustrated him in this series. He's tried defending, attacking and a mixture of both but nothing has worked. This series will either be a catalyst for Amla's inevitable decline or something that he'll use as motivation for one last hurrah.
 
Bilal7 said:
The ball also grazed his pad which is why he reviewed it. More than Amla's character, this sort of thing speaks more about the people criticizing him for the review. It's not like he didn't walk when the umpire didn't give him out and the Aussies didn't have any reviews left.

Hazlewood has definitely frustrated him in this series. He's tried defending, attacking and a mixture of both but nothing has worked. This series will either be a catalyst for Amla's inevitable decline or something that he'll use as motivation for one last hurrah.
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Let's call it as it is. He knew he hit and he didn't walk because he is desperate to score. It goes against his character and the deontologist that he is supposed to be, given how his fans go over the top in praising his character and how some even resort to lying on live TV (when Junaid Jamshed lied about him fasting while scoring the 300 in England).
 
Bilal7 said:
Unless he retires immediately, he'll get to 8000. Probably in both tests and ODIs.
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If his average drops below 50 which it looks like then he will not be considered a great anymore
 
Slog said:
If his average drops below 50 which it looks like then he will not be considered a great anymore
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He's definitely a great for all that he's done before this current rut he's stuck in. If he comes back from this, he'll be known as a bonafide ATG.
 
ahmedwaqas92 said:
lol are you for real ?? Have you ever heard of Grame Pollock or any of the Apartied players that represented SA during those periods ?????
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I have heard of Bradman too , is Amla from one of those whos career was curtailed for some reason ?

in the current Era , 10K runs is bare minimum , even that may not be enough.we are talking about ATG's here , anyone whos had a few good years and tailed off cannot be called a ATG .
 
Bilal7 said:
Unless he retires immediately, he'll get to 8000. Probably in both tests and ODIs.
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if he ends his career at 8K on both formats , forget a ATG he will be a remembered as a good batsmen in 10 years time . you need 10K as a qualifier .
Hes a bit like Mike Hussey imo .
 
Mamoon said:
Let's call it as it is. He knew he hit and he didn't walk because he is desperate to score. It goes against his character and the deontologist that he is supposed to be, given how his fans go over the top in praising his character and how some even resort to lying on live TV (when Junaid Jamshed lied about him fasting while scoring the 300 in England).
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He didn't walk because there was a chance he was not out. The big spot on his pad in the replays confirmed as such. There really is nothing else to this story.

jusarrived said:
if he ends his career at 8K on both formats , forget a ATG he will be a remembered as a good batsmen in 10 years time . you need 10K as a qualifier .
Hes a bit like Mike Hussey imo .
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In your opinion, yes. Then again, it's not like you're the type to give credit where it's due.
 
Bilal7 said:
In your opinion, yes. Then again, it's not like you're the type to give credit where it's due.
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So in your opinion a batsmen with 8K runs should be categorised as a ATG ? Would mike hussey with 6200 runs in 70 tests and avg of 51 be an ATG too ?
In that case where would you put Inzy 8800 runs at ~50 ? Mahela Jayawardena 11814 @50 ? KP ~8500 runs @47 . VVS laxman 8,781 @46 ?

One more for easier comparison , G smith 9265 @ 48 . Arguably one of the best match winners and a fellow SA batsmen . is he an ATG too ?

if you can answer this , I will explain why I picked these players .
 
jusarrived said:
So in your opinion a batsmen with 8K runs should be categorised as a ATG ? Would mike hussey with 6200 runs in 70 tests and avg of 51 be an ATG too ?
In that case where would you put Inzy 8800 runs at ~50 ? Mahela Jayawardena 11814 @50 ? KP ~8500 runs @47 . VVS laxman 8,781 @46 ?

One more for easier comparison , G smith 9265 @ 48 . Arguably one of the best match winners and a fellow SA batsmen . is he an ATG too ?

if you can answer this , I will explain why I picked these players .
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Graeme Smith is an ATG. The rest of them are not because they have glaring holes in their records and have failed in two of more countries. These players have also not been as consistent or played as many great innings as the true ATG players. Nor were any of these players the best batsman in the world for any long period of time.

Amla, on the other hand, meets every single one of these criteria. The amount of runs doesn't matter too much but the quality if these runs does. South Africa doesn't play as many tests as other countries either.
 
Amla is an ATG, with a proven track record everywhere, let's not faf about that.
I'd have him ahead of both Dravid and Ponting as he offers great balance between attack and defence.
Not as good as Dravid against spin bowling, but definitely a better player of pace and swing.
Not as dominant as Ponting against pace, but superior player of spin.
Sounds like a player that's an ATG to me, you don't win a series in England and Australia and dominate an ATG Indian side in their conditions and be a hack of a player.
There haven't been many ATG #3's, not more than 5 IIRC have scored 6K+ runs (if not 5K). Amla has done so averaging 50. He has a few years in him as well.

Greatness isn't defined by numbers but by performance. In Amla's case he has both.
 
jusarrived said:
So in your opinion a batsmen with 8K runs should be categorised as a ATG ? Would mike hussey with 6200 runs in 70 tests and avg of 51 be an ATG too ?
In that case where would you put Inzy 8800 runs at ~50 ? Mahela Jayawardena 11814 @50 ? KP ~8500 runs @47 . VVS laxman 8,781 @46 ?

One more for easier comparison , G smith 9265 @ 48 . Arguably one of the best match winners and a fellow SA batsmen . is he an ATG too ?

if you can answer this , I will explain why I picked these players .
Click to expand...

Do you consider Bradman ATG?
He faced gardeners and carpenters for his stats. Never played against athletes.
Doesn't have 7500 runs let alone the "magical" figure of 8000 IIRC
 
Sin Nombre said:
This from statsman Shaiva Jayaraman: Amla's last away fifty-plus score was in Galle in 2014 (139*). Since then he hasn't made a fifty in ten away Tests and averages just 14.46 from 13 inns
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These numbers are meaningless and don't prove anything.
About 7 of those innings came from the diabolical tracks in India, where third grade bowlers looked world class. Had 1 innings in Bangladesh the rest washed-out.
This tour (Australia) he has been very poor though.
All ATG batsman have had such tours. It's how they bounced back that defined their careers.

All in all we haven't toured much over the last two years. He was just recently brilliant against England fighting alone on the batting front while Rabada was holding his own on the bowling front.
I find it ironic how that tour is forgotten.
 
soso_killer said:
These numbers are meaningless and don't prove anything.
About 7 of those innings came from the diabolical tracks in India, where third grade bowlers looked world class. Had 1 innings in Bangladesh the rest washed-out.
This tour (Australia) he has been very poor though.
All ATG batsman have had such tours. It's how they bounced back that defined their careers.

All in all we haven't toured much over the last two years. He was just recently brilliant against England fighting alone on the batting front while Rabada was holding his own on the bowling front.
I find it ironic how that tour is forgotten.
Click to expand...

You guys play don't play anywhere near as many tests as you should be. The English and Indians play 15-16 matches a year and South Africa barely play 10. This is why this silly threshold of 10000 runs is not something most people use to judge a batsman.

soso_killer said:
Amla is an ATG, with a proven track record everywhere, let's not faf about that.
I'd have him ahead of both Dravid and Ponting as he offers great balance between attack and defence.
Not as good as Dravid against spin bowling, but definitely a better player of pace and swing.
Not as dominant as Ponting against pace, but superior player of spin.
Sounds like a player that's an ATG to me, you don't win a series in England and Australia and dominate an ATG Indian side in their conditions and be a hack of a player.
There haven't been many ATG #3's, not more than 5 IIRC have scored 6K+ runs (if not 5K). Amla has done so averaging 50. He has a few years in him as well.

Greatness isn't defined by numbers but by performance. In Amla's case he has both.
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Great post. I'd have him ahead of those two as well if he bounces back from this set-back and helps yet another South African team to the #1 ranking. Better than Dravid across formats for sure.
 
soso_killer said:
These numbers are meaningless and don't prove anything.
About 7 of those innings came from the diabolical tracks in India, where third grade bowlers looked world class. Had 1 innings in Bangladesh the rest washed-out.
This tour (Australia) he has been very poor though.
All ATG batsman have had such tours. It's how they bounced back that defined their careers.

All in all we haven't toured much over the last two years. He was just recently brilliant against England fighting alone on the batting front while Rabada was holding his own on the bowling front.
I find it ironic how that tour is forgotten.
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The only thing diabolical has been Amla's performances in his last 2 tours away from home. Compare him to AB's performance on the same tracks and the picture is very clear.

Hilarious to compare someone who mostly scores cheap runs in big totals like Amla with genuine match winners in the test format like Ponting and Dravid.
 
soso_killer said:
Do you consider Bradman ATG?
He faced gardeners and carpenters for his stats. Never played against athletes.
Doesn't have 7500 runs let alone the "magical" figure of 8000 IIRC
Click to expand...

Bradman is a moot point.

The day someone averages 99.94 with 5000 plus runs, we will automatically consider him ATG.

Only when you average in 50-60s people question ATG, with less than 10000 runs.

Score 5000 at an average of 99.94 no one will ever question your right to ATG. I assure you.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Bradman is a moot point.

The day someone averages 99.94 with 5000 plus runs, we will automatically consider him ATG.

Only when you average in 50-60s people question ATG, with less than 10000 runs.

Score 5000 at an average of 99.94 no one will ever question your right to ATG. I assure you.
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Well i believe any modern batsman can do the same if they play only 1-2 teams made up of amateurs. Unfortunately they dont get the chance. However, there are still modern batsmen who average a lot against 1-2 teams
 
I don't know who said it on PP but some one did, and it was spot on.

If you are discussing if a player is an ATG or not, chances are that he probably isn't.

Amla is a very good player, but he is nowhere near ATG level. He is an Inzamam, MoYo, Laxman level cricketer. Nothing more than that.

Lol at him being better than Ponting and Dravid.
 
Indiafan said:
Well i believe any modern batsman can do the same if they play only 1-2 teams made up of amateurs. Unfortunately they dont get the chance. However, there are still modern batsmen who average a lot against 1-2 teams
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That might be true, but we have to accept Bradman for his past.

What happens from this time onwards, is something we have to live with.

That teams will face 6-7 genuinely world class teams, and you'd be extremely lucky to average more than 60 for more than 5000 runs.
 
Indiafan said:
Well i believe any modern batsman can do the same if they play only 1-2 teams made up of amateurs. Unfortunately they dont get the chance. However, there are still modern batsmen who average a lot against 1-2 teams
Click to expand...

But modern players wouldn't be modern without the help of advancement of over 50 years if they were born in 1908.
 
Mamoon said:
I don't know who said it on PP but some one did, and it was spot on.

If you are discussing if a player is an ATG or not, chances are that he probably isn't.

Amla is a very good player, but he is nowhere near ATG level. He is an Inzamam, MoYo, Laxman level cricketer. Nothing more than that.

Lol at him being better than Ponting and Dravid.
Click to expand...

Amla is better than Moyo and Inzimam or Laxman for that matter I believe.
 
Dr_Bassim said:
Amla is better than Moyo and Inzimam or Laxman for that matter I believe.
Click to expand...

Very few players are at the exact same level, if any. That is why I believe in bracketing players in categories - 1v1 comparisons are always difficult.

For example, in Test cricket, I would put Kohli, Root, Williamson and Smith at the same level, because determining who is better than who is complicated. However, what we do know is that they belong in the same class.

Amla does not belong in the class of Tendulkar, Ponting, Dravid, Lara, Sangakkara or Kallis. He is closer to the MoYo, Inzamam, Laxman etc. level.
 
Amla being rated above Dravid and Ponting is one of the all time cruddiest opinions ever to be expressed on PakPassion.
 
Its funny if Amla fans are putting him into Ponting or even Dravid league currently.Those two guys faced better pace bowling attack and better spinners and were still very dominant averaging close to 58 at their peak.

Amla averages 50 and at his peak was averaging close to 52-53.He is on decline and ATG tag is just stretching it too far.

Same for Younis Khan who is averaging 42-43 outside Asia and can't play pace bowling for God's sake.

Neither of Amla,YK,AB and Cook are ATGs and are just greats like KP and Clarke.
 
A failure for Amla today. He struggled vs NZ, struggled vs Aus but surely he'll cash in against a SL attack who aren't great away from home?
 
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