Mamoon
ATG
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- Sep 3, 2012
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Even Honor killers have apologists?
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How can they be clueless?
Just do it the way the Israelis do - even with Jewish terrorists.
Arrest and use harsh interrogation (torture) on the parents and siblings of the woman.
It's hardly rocket science working out who has the motive.
Usually actual culprits are never caught seen it so many times in Nammakal,also the comments in that page are horrible to say the least,wonder if India is the most divided right now probably because every tom dick harry has access to social network.Just in.
Father-in-law surrenders after Dalit man killed for marrying upper caste girl
http://www.ibnlive.com/news/india/f...g-an-upper-caste-girl-surrenders-1215960.html
Usually actual culprits are never caught seen it so many times in Nammakal,also the comments in that page are horrible to say the least,wonder if India is the most divided right now probably because every tom dick harry has access to social network.
Nothing new in TN really.
Comments like this are really disappointing, not you personally, but that it's still considered normal in a country like India. What is needed is a worldwide campaign to bring this sort of stuff out in the open. If the girl survives she could be a poster girl for low castes and tour the world like Malala. Only with such public shaming of the nation will real efforts be made to stamp out this horrific mentality.
If she becomes a Malala, she's going to be relocated to England, may get a Nobel prize, and may star in many BBC documentaries. But I don't know how these measures are going to stop a grumpy old father in some random Indian town or village, killing his son in law and his daughter. Recently Sharmeen Obaid got an Oscar for making a documentary about honour killings in Pakistan. Is that going to stop the honour killings suddenly there?
There is no quick fix for this. You just have to hope that the newer generations become wiser with education and this mentality is stamped out of the society.
It might not stop the honour killings but at least international pressure comes to bear on the Indian govt when it goes worldwide. Why do you think Sharmeen Obaid got the oscar? Would it have been better if she was ignored and we just hope things get better by themselves?
Things don't work like that, that's the reason the Indian guy was presented co-Nobel prize winner with Malala. So that by linking his name to the superstar Malala, his cause could also get some attention. Otherwise it's too easy to ignore such people on account that it's seen as bad publicity for the nation.
What measures do you recommend for the govts to reduce honour killing in south asian countries? You could argue that the laws are a bit lax in Pakistan, but I read recently that Nawaz Sharif has ordered for the laws to be tightened/changed following the screening of Obaid's documentary to him.
In India, these killings are tried as usual murder cases. Some get death penalties too. Last year a whole family was sentenced to death following a case of honour killing. Yeah, you could recommend a universal death penalty for everyone implicated in such incidents. But then you'll have human rights activists knocking on your door, while being branded as a totalitarian state by the West like China's being done now.
How can they be clueless?
Just do it the way the Israelis do - even with Jewish terrorists.
Arrest and use harsh interrogation (torture) on the parents and siblings of the woman.
It's hardly rocket science working out who has the motive.
I always thought South Indians did less of this stuff compared to the Northies.
Honor Killings should have been extinct by now.
Honor Killings should have been extinct by now.
Most casteist people get to violence only when the groom is from Dalit community,otherwise they might not talk but violence never happens,its sad that for all DMK keeps whining about they hardly champion dalit rights when they have to fight castes other than Brahmins.
Such incidents are as common, if not more, amongst the 'educated'. The fissures in society caused by the caste system are now often being compounded, not reduced, by the new found wealth and increased education.There is no quick fix for this. You just have to hope that the newer generations become wiser with education and this mentality is stamped out of the society.
Nobody criticizes Backward Castes and Other Backward Castes for their atrocities on Dalits.
BC's and OBC's form 40% of the population. Nobody dares to lose that vote bank by criticizing them.
Its easy to criticize Brahmins who are like 1% of the population. Even if they lose their votes, nobody cares.
Yup ,but tbh Brahmins deserve every bit as well and in places which BJP rule(NORTH) Brahmins are still a dominant and discriminating community.
Such incidents are as common, if not more, amongst the 'educated'. The fissures in society caused by the caste system are now often being compounded, not reduced, by the new found wealth and increased education.
In 3rd world countries, education is creating new paradoxes. Education, instead of breaking down class structures, is often creating new class structures, between the 'educated' and 'uneducated'/less educated.
In places like India, in marriage ads, asking for a partner of a particular caste is now being replaced by asking for a particular level of education. Education is the new caste.
If you look at many of the cases involving honour killings, you'll find that the 'educated' are often the perpetrators just as much, if not more, than the 'uneducated'. That's the point I was making in my previous post.You can't stamp out casteism with education. But you can always stamp out the violence associated with it by education
Most people generally have some form of prejudice in their mind in terms of caste, religion, race and colour. All are one and the same really. I don't know how many people here will be happy with their daughter marrying a hindu boy or a black man. Yeah, people will be like I don't discriminate at all, but everyone will have their own likes and dislikes or wishes and reservations. And the same people will be reluctant to give consent when push comes to shove. But all that doesn't mean they'll resort to murder supposing their children happen to marry someone outside of their likings.
We can atleast hope to reach a stage where people don't resort to physical violence when such marriages happen, even if they don't stop harbouring prejudices completely in their mind.
I do not know about North. May be Brahmins have political influence there.
In South, they are nothing. Negligible population. They deserve the bashing for being casteist until before independence. Now its all Backward castes that commit atrocities on Dalits. Yet political parties never say a word about them. My friend who is a Iyer told me that most Brahmins have moved out of Tamilnadu after the Periyar movement. They were literally kicked out. Most settled n Bangalore and Bombay.
If you look at many of the cases involving honour killings, you'll find that the 'educated' are often the perpetrators just as much, if not more, than the 'uneducated'. That's the point I was making in my previous post.
There have been cases of course, but this phenomenon generally happens more in towns and villages. People generally cut off ties with their son or daughter in cities, as they'll be aware that they'll be under the cosh if they do such lunatic acts. This pride of the family in society phenomenon exists more in rural settings.
They are forced to do it because if they dont take action, the family loses social capital. And gains immense respect among their society if they kill their offspring. There is some benefit in being known as upholding the honour of the community and family by even sacrificing your children if needed.
If she becomes a Malala, she's going to be relocated to England, may get a Nobel prize, and may star in many BBC documentaries. But I don't know how these measures are going to stop a grumpy old father in some random Indian town or village, killing his son in law and his daughter. Recently Sharmeen Obaid got an Oscar for making a documentary about honour killings in Pakistan. Is that going to stop the honour killings suddenly there?
There is no quick fix for this. You just have to hope that the newer generations become wiser with education and this mentality is stamped out of the society.
Problem with India and Pakistan is not the poor but it's the middle and upper class who create and nurture the culture of cast system and religious extremism...
In Pakistan just last month a guy who murdered Taser his Janazay was one of the biggest seen in many years, whole media, right wing made him a national hero. How can Pakistani claim we are not extremist?? - this shows extreme ill tolerance in main stream culture. How civilized world can trust such a nation??
In India, even on Internet every body was itchy, when minorities mentioned that ill tolerance is growing, right wing was crying like anything, yet educated people take bath in cow **** and banning beef as big success....They gloss over the riots that killed 2-3 thousands minority's just decade ago, he become prime minister now... Only 2/3 decades ago that party was formed on demolishing mosque...It's like neocons in USA...
I have being watching Indian movies for ages, even the billionaire are highly superstitious about well everything... They show it as matter of pride, tradition and culture....Bollywood is almost selling the rape fantasy for 70 years are so... People love to hear 'bachao bachao' from women, why they cannot show strong women, not even once in 70 fricken years??? - no wonder female empowerment, rape, wife beating, honor killing are big issues in Desi culture...
Cast system exists in India for 5000 years or so... The best person born in India in that many years(Bhuda) was not able to change India, although he changed a lot in many parts of world, that is the irony of India...India should have being proud of Bhuda and his legacy, but what remain is legacy of Bhramans.... This still continue to rot India...Bhramans are also like camaleon, they know how to keep their tradition and culture alive in modern time... Like people claiming to be Hindu Atheist or Veda is/was Science...That drives me nuts, there is way too much Seudo Science in India, they bend there back to prove Vedas had some supernatural content in it, like intelligent design movement by right wing, although nobody takes then seriously in west...[emoji849][emoji849][emoji849][emoji849]
In my opinion for Pakistan culturally biggest problem is Islam, for India its Brahman (which is essentially the Hinduism in nutshell)... As long as these ideologies thrive both of them are going no where... You can only correct something when you know what to fix, building strong product on buggy architecture is not possible, sometime you have to challenge the foundation!!!
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If its a sarcastic joke then its even worse because someone has lost her life.
Some one always loses life when there is crime. But we need to look more deeply into the matter to unearth the reasons that led a guy to do what he did, which obviously is wrong and can not be supported.
Was surprised this happened in Karachi because honor killings in the city are not the norm but then found out it was carried out by some migrants from North West Pakistan. If people want to move to a cosmopolitan and multicultural city then they must leave behind their tribal thinking back home.
None of the locals, standing at the spot recording video and taking pictures, came forward to take her to the hospital. The victim succumbed to injuries after one and a half hour while Hayat was seen busy with his mobile phone.
Sources told that Sumera was honour-killed over just a suspicion.
The incident was confirmed by officials at the local police station who have also taken the suspect into custody after lodging case against him.
On the other hand, slain girl’s father has forgiven his son for the murder of his daughter.
Hundreds of women are murdered by their relatives in Pakistan each year on the excuse of defending family ‘honour’.
One of the good Bollywood movies on this topic, "AaKrosh"
Realistic and well acted and directed!
One of the good Bollywood movies on this topic, "AaKrosh"
Realistic and well acted and directed!
Unfortunately rural folks have moved to urban and haven't left their mentality . Too much ghettoisation in Karachi where tribal people are rooted to one or two areas and want to recreate their tribal society in KarachiWow, so now this has moved from rural areas to cities. Disgusting, and shows the horrific mentality that runs through the minds of pretty much everyone in the country.
Feel pretty sick tbh.
But according to many members here, supposed vulgarity on television screens is more outrageous than these murders.
Pakistan is the worst country in the world for women. Honor killing, acid attacks, mental and physical abuse etc. Total disgrace on the face of earth.
Horrible. Can't believe how people actually believe that they are right when they do these kind of things.
As for the on-lookers who couldn't be bothered, they're a part of the crime.
How can such a primtive thing happened in such a progressive city?http://dunyanews.tv/en/Crime/334263-Honour-killing-Brother-stabs-17yearold-sister-t
Some glaring questions need to be asked.
1. People didn't help her, and continued taking video.
2. The family felt the brother did the right thing.
3. How long will we continue to live with this abysmal thinking?
4. How to put an end to this all completely?
I am all in favour of 'sar-e-aam" phansi to such people, so that everyone who sees this, takes note, that this is what happens when you murder someone.
Thoughts ideas?
How can such a primtive thing happened in such a progressive city?
How can such a primtive thing happened in such a progressive city?
Yes the on-lookers are bad, but I'm trying to look from their POI.
Say if one of the on-lookers wanted to step in and save the girl, the other scumbags and imbeciles filming would've restrained him and he could've been hacked to death as well.
The insane outnumber the sane people in the country by a longshot.
None of the locals, standing at the spot recording video and taking pictures, came forward to take her to the hospital. The victim succumbed to injuries after one and a half hour while Hayat was seen busy with his mobile phone.
If you stand at the spot and record video/take pics, you're culpable in my book. If you're scared of a backlash, the least you can do is to inform the police, etc. But standing there and taking pics/videos? This is jahiliyyat. A person is dying.
I actually saw the video on ARY News (before they censored it five-minutes after) around at 9 PM in the evening over here that day. I felt so numbed seeing the sister scream in pain lying on a chaarpayi as her brother was playing a game or something on his mobile phone. She finally succumbed to her wounds some 15 minutes after being stabbed by him, they reported.
The father´s statement was, "He has already lost a daughter, why does he have to lose a son now?" Also, that what he did was the right thing.
It felt so shocking! This alongside the sweets incident in Layyah have been amongst the most horrible news to come from Pakistan in the recent times.
The only way to rid of this heinous crime is by applying capital punishment.
The concept of Blood Money in Pakistani legal system is too easy to let honor killing accused go scot free.
Somebody, tell me if my interpretation is wrong here. The family of the victim can pardon a guy in place of blood money (Raymond Davis case). So when the killer is from the family it becomes too easy to go scot free, Isn't it?
blood money is only allowed if the murder was an accident/unintentional.
C
The democratically elected government of Nawaz Sharif, in 1997, replaced the Ordinance by enacting the Qisas and Diyat sharia provisions as the law, through an Act of its Parliament.[35] The sharia-compliant Qisas and Diyat law made murder a private offense, not a crime against society or state, and thus the pursuit, prosecution and punishment for murder has become the responsibility of the victim's heirs and guardians.[35]
The Diyat law of Pakistan has proven to be controversial, for a number of reasons. First, a number of cases of honor killings of girls, initiated and arranged with intent by families, have been later forgiven by the same families under the Diyya law.[35][36] Second, scholars have cited a number of cases of intentional murder and bodily harm inflicted on the poor by the wealthy, where the guilty escaped legal process and simply paid a compensation
blood money is only allowed if the murder was an accident/unintentional.
C