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Honour Killings

Good for the parents to stand up to those idiots wanting her killed.

:facepalm:

It's always shocking to hear such stories coming from Pakistan and the subcontinent in general.

Worst bit is it seems the local judge and the local police haven't done their due diligence either. What a messed up system.

you will be surprised , there is a story like this every other day in papers
 
Daily Mail is often on the borderline of racism. Saying this is tradition in Pakistan is beyond a joke. Out of 170 million people, I would be surprised if more than 50,000 held such views. To call it tradition could be seen as deliberate provocation.

Where it is a much bigger problem is in Turkey. But even there it is not a tradition, but rather a problem faced in a minority of rural communities.
 
Daily Mail is often on the borderline of racism. Saying this is tradition in Pakistan is beyond a joke. Out of 170 million people, I would be surprised if more than 50,000 held such views. To call it tradition could be seen as deliberate provocation.

Where it is a much bigger problem is in Turkey. But even there it is not a tradition, but rather a problem faced in a minority of rural communities.

To be fair, it was the rape victim who said it is a "tradition".

'It is the tradition, but if the family doesn't permit it, then it won't happen.'

However, I believe she was saying it in the context of that area in Pakistan.
 
is not same kind of thing also practiced in hind ? I read / heard somewhere i guess ...
 
and if all else fails , they make you walk on hot burnign coals :facepalm:

Lol yeah, there was a story of a man killing his wife and his alleged lover and then proving it by walking 8 steps on hot burning coal.
 
If I'm not wrong, the way to convict alleged rapists is through the following manner:

The victim must produce at least 3 witness that watched the rape take place. Now this makes no sense because those 3 individuals would probably taking part themselves.
 
To be fair, it was the rape victim who said it is a "tradition".



However, I believe she was saying it in the context of that area in Pakistan.

But the Daily Mail should be intelligent enough to understand that if the woman says it's tradition in Pakistan then firstly, that is not what she means and secondly, it certainly isn't tradition in Pakistan. They are not stupid, they know exactly the message they will be putting across by quoting her exact words, and dare I say, that is the hardline message they want to put across. If you lived in the UK, you would understand that this is typical of the Daily Mail - they have a strong poltical agenda.
 
But the Daily Mail should be intelligent enough to understand that if the woman says it's tradition in Pakistan then firstly, that is not what she means and secondly, it certainly isn't tradition in Pakistan. They are not stupid, they know exactly the message they will be putting across by quoting her exact words, and dare I say, that is the hardline message they want to put across. If you lived in the UK, you would understand that this is typical of the Daily Mail - they have a strong poltical agenda.

I completely understand where you are coming from and I know the reputation the "Daily Fail" carries.

Was just pointing out that the term did originate from the rape victim and wasn't plucked out of thin air.

Yes, they twisted it around and made it seem like all of Pakistan is involved in such behaviour, which is completely incorrect and false.
 
Some Baloch and Pathan tribes still carry out this 'practice'.

Get real bub, pathans are the only ones who arem't into this whole honor killing business(wouldn't think twice about walking into the rapists' home and putting two bullets apiece in each one of them but that's how the pathan moral code works). The most prominent hotbed for practitioners of honor killings is Sindh(by a country mile) followed by rural Punjab particularly southern Punjab aka the seraiki belt and to some extent, Balochistan. If you're unsure of your facts, at least don't make stuff up about something you know nothing about.
 
All rapists and pedophiles should be executed.............They really get me mad
 
Its one of the many sad and dark incidents that take place on regular basis in Pakistan.

Hopefully the rapists are brought to justice and the victim and her family stay safe.
 
Get real bub, pathans are the only ones who arem't into this whole honor killing business(wouldn't think twice about walking into the rapists' home and putting two bullets apiece in each one of them but that's how the pathan moral code works).

Do have a read.

http://www.law.harvard.edu/programs/ilsp/research/kakar.pdf

Not as prevalent as it is in other areas of the country, but cannot be denied.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=ujw...esnum=3&ved=0CCwQ6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q&f=false

The most prominent hotbed for practitioners of honor killings is Sindh(by a country mile) followed by rural Punjab particularly southern Punjab aka the seraiki belt and to some extent, Balochistan.

Agreed.

If you're unsure of your facts, at least don't make stuff up about something you know nothing about.

:) Sure
 
Honour killings in Canada: even worse than we believe

If you are already sufficiently appalled knowing there’ve been 12 despicable “honour killings” in Canada since 2002, don’t read any further. This is only the tip of a nightmarish iceberg, I’m afraid.

For some reason, the term honour killings seems to be reserved for murders committed by male family members against daughters or sisters in South Asian or Middle Eastern communities. These unimaginable crimes have been receiving much high-profile notoriety in the Canadian media, as they surely deserve. All Canadians must now know of the tragic murder of 16-year old Aqsa Parvez of Mississauga, strangled to death three years ago by her brother and father.

•Who's pro-honour killing?
•Rona Ambrose again sounds alarm on ‘honour-based violence’
•Women’s minister warns against ‘honour killings’

But I’m confident that not one in a million is aware that in Ontario alone, from 2002 until only 2007 (the latest data), 212 women have been killed by their partners. That’s 42 every year, compared with 12 so-called honour killings in all of Canada in the past eight years. Women killed by partners are known as domestic homicides, and, unless especially gruesome, are barely worth a mention in the media. Maybe there's just too many of them to be newsworthy.

The data comes from the Ontario Domestic Violence Death Review Committee, which I didn’t even know existed until it was recently cited in the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives' Monitor. I’ve never come across these figures anywhere else.

Let me rush to be clear here. I don’t for a moment minimize the horror of 12 girls and women in Canada murdered by members of their immediate family. To steal a phrase, one would be far too many.



Terrible things still happen to women everywhere, as the domestic violence figures for Canada demonstrate. No nation, religion, class or ethnic group has the monopoly on misogyny..


There is no conceivable excuse or justification for doing anything but condemning such murders in the most unequivocal way. There is no cultural tradition, no sensitivity to the different values of other societies, that can ever justify or even “understand” how a father or brother can kill their daughter or sister, or how a mother can be a sympathetic witness to such a savage act. It is beyond any rational understanding.

What accounts for the high profile of these relatively small number of murders in Canada? Why do we know little or nothing about the larger epidemic of women killed, almost routinely it sometimes seems, by boyfriends or husbands? Is it less terrible to be strangled to death or shot or have your throat slit by them than by family members? Is it just too commonplace to bother paying attention to? Do we still harbour that sneaking suspicion that women murdered by partners have somehow brought it on themselves?

Yet both kinds of murders have a common root. Both are honour killings, reflecting a twisted, pathological male sense of honour. Both are executed by men who feel they haven’t received their due deference, men who consider “their” women, whether daughter or partner, to be their chattel, to do with as they choose. Have we smug white Canadians forgotten that you don’t have to be a Muslim or South Asian to regard women this way?

Or do we focus on so-called honour killings precisely because the victims are Muslims, or South Asians, or Middle Easterners? By giving such prominence to these communities and their cultures, are we not denigrating them? For all our ostensible acceptance of multiculturalism, are we not feeding our lingering prejudices against certain specific minorities among us? Look at it purely statistically. If so-called honour killings are in fact culturally approved by their communities, as is often charged, shouldn't we expect far more than 12 in the entire country in eight years? And if the rest of us truly embrace a culture that repudiates violence against women, why are so many of them still being murdered?

Let me again emphasize that I have no illusions about these dark issues. According to the United Nations, there are a staggering 5,000 instances annually of women and girls being shot, stoned, burned, poisoned, buried alive, strangled, smothered or knifed to death by family members. I can barely write the sentence without getting sick to my stomach. The killers are fathers, brothers, sons, uncles, and yes, even mothers. The disgusting deeds are carried out in the name of preserving or protecting family honour. Most such murders are indeed carried out in the Middle East or in the countries of South Asia – India, Bangladesh, Pakistan – or by South Asians or Middle Easterners living elsewhere. These terrible crimes can never be “understood,” justified or condoned. They must be stopped, wherever they happen.

But terrible things still happen to women everywhere, as the domestic violence figures for Canada demonstrate. No nation, religion, class or ethnic group has the monopoly on misogyny. Honour killings should be seen not as uniquely evil but as the most extreme and perverse proof of this truth. That's why it's encouraging that women's equality groups have been so vocal in their denunciations of all violence against women and are supporting women in minority communities to give them the strength to stand up for their rights.

Despite the remarkable progress women have truly made in the past half-century, clawing for every inch of it, the struggle for women’s equality can never rest. It simply has too many enemies, always fighting to keep women in their place, where they belong, dead or alive. Young women who dismiss feminism as irrelevant or outdated are, I’m afraid, dead wrong. The struggle is never over.

Source: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...da-even-worse-than-we-believe/article1650228/
 
It's a US based Pakistani family who are the chief suspects. We are always hearing from our American posters how much more civilised the US Pakistanis are compared to the brits, maybe they can explain to us how this outrage was committed against decent UK citizens by American nationals?
 
It's a US based Pakistani family who are the chief suspects. We are always hearing from our American posters how much more civilised the US Pakistanis are compared to the brits, maybe they can explain to us how this outrage was committed against decent UK citizens by American nationals?

lol I think you're having a go at PakPrince and tanzeel here but just so you know, this is mixture of both US and UK Pakistani nationals.

As per the news

Saif Rehman, 31, who lived in Glasgow, and his wife Uzma Naurin, 30, from New York, are said to have been targeted in Gujrat on November 1.
 
lol I think you're having a go at PakPrince and tanzeel here but just so you know, this is mixture of both US and UK Pakistani nationals.

As per the news

According to the Pakistani police the suspects are the girls family who are US nationals.
 
lol I think you're having a go at PakPrince and tanzeel here but just so you know, this is mixture of both US and UK Pakistani nationals.

As per the news

The UK Pakistani was the victim, it was the girl's family who were flying the flag for the educated and forward thinking US Pakistanis.
 
Religion again, right? What a wonderful construct it is.
 
Would you argue that the concept of the honour killing as we know it has nothing to do with religion?

It has nothing to do with religion whatsoever. It is common place in the sub-continent regardless of religion: Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims. In England too, it's a mix of religions when we hear about these. It has everything to do with culture and a distinct lack of education.

It is a disgusting practice and needs to be addressed but can only be done so with a progressive mentality, not with laws.
 
Would you argue that the concept of the honour killing as we know it has nothing to do with religion?

What's there to argue? You find me any religious edict that says if your daughter marries someone who you disapprove of, hire a few hitmen to take them out.

When you find it, then you'll be in a position to claim religion instructs and institutes honour killings.

It is common place in the sub-continent regardless of religion: Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims.

It is common place in Sub-Continent, Middle East, and Africa. In North Ameria and Europe, they've changed the name to crimes of passion or domestic dispute. In the end it's no different.
 
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I would argue that we have to consider notions not only as their current developed state but also in relation to their possible geneses. If even one honour killing relates to a misinterpretation or misuse of a religion, then...
 
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I would argue that we have to consider notions not only as their current developed state but also in relation to their possible geneses. If even one honour killing relates to a misinterpretation or misuse of a religion, then...

Fine. So point to me where these people are misunderstanding their religion. Or is that you think they are misunderstanding their religion?
 
I would argue that we have to consider notions not only as their current developed state but also in relation to their possible geneses. If even one honour killing relates to a misinterpretation or misuse of a religion, then...

then by the same token, if 1 good deed is down to a misinterpretation or misuse of a religion then you must credit the religion.

It has to work both ways

As is usually the case, people are to blame, not the institution
 
Who would be naive enough to ignore the perceived back-stories of many of these so-called honour killings?
 
then by the same token, if 1 good deed is down to a misinterpretation or misuse of a religion then you must credit the religion.

It has to work both ways

As is usually the case, people are to blame, not the institution

Don't disagree here, but I do wonder why people get their backs up whenever the perpetrator's religion is mentioned as a possible trigger in one of his less humane behaviours.
 
Who would be naive enough to ignore the perceived back-stories of many of these so-called honour killings?

Please do bring the part in the religion that people are misunderstanding. I'm curious as to how you came to that conclusion unless of course it's your opinion in which case that's a different matter.

The article made no mention of religion, yet you jumped on to religion.
 
Don't disagree here, but I do wonder why people get their backs up whenever the perpetrator's religion is mentioned as a possible trigger in one of his less humane behaviours.

Oh the irony.

Religion teaches humanity, so how can someone acting in an inhumane way be doing so in the name of the religion? You're confusing cultural beliefs with religion.
 
My point is that - as a raised Christian - every day I find myself agreeing more and more with Christopher Hitchens. Often unintentionally, religion is prone to 'poisoning things'.

I've heard the argument that violence in the name of religion is not down to one's interpretation of a part of their religion, but instead down to cultural beliefs that may or may not relate to the imprint of religion. However, to me, the separation of the two is more of an instance of ignoring the issue. For example, Islam and Islamic culture being considered entirely separate, as if they were binary? Come ON.
 
'Religion teaches humanity' is also quite a subjective thing to say...humane behaviour as you see it maybe!
 
My point is that - as a raised Christian - every day I find myself agreeing more and more with Christopher Hitchens. Often unintentionally, religion is prone to 'poisoning things'.

I've heard the argument that violence in the name of religion is not down to one's interpretation of a part of their religion, but instead down to cultural beliefs that may or may not relate to the imprint of religion. However, to me, the separation of the two is more of an instance of ignoring the issue. For example, Islam and Islamic culture being considered entirely separate, as if they were binary? Come ON.

Still waiting for the part where you think religious misunderstanding lead to this.

Again you are confusing issues. If someone doesn't understand the religion, yet labels himself a follower, and then commits a crime, you'd like to chalk it up to "see he says he's a Muslim, he committed murder, it must have been sanctioned by his belief". How you jump to that conclusion is remarkable.

Instead of beating around the bush, just find what in Islam encourages someone to kill their child, family member because of a dispute over who married whom. Till then I'm out - I'll monitor your reply but frankly don't expect the direct answer I'm looking for. For that to happen you'll need to concede that a) you were wrong, b) that this was merely your opinion c) that you were wrong.
 
Still waiting for the part where you think religious misunderstanding lead to this.

Again you are confusing issues. If someone doesn't understand the religion, yet labels himself a follower, and then commits a crime, you'd like to chalk it up to "see he says he's a Muslim, he committed murder, it must have been sanctioned by his belief". How you jump to that conclusion is remarkable.

Instead of beating around the bush, just find what in Islam encourages someone to kill their child, family member because of a dispute over who married whom. Till then I'm out - I'll monitor your reply but frankly don't expect the direct answer I'm looking for. For that to happen you'll need to concede that a) you were wrong, b) that this was merely your opinion c) that you were wrong.

Your second paragraph here is where we agree - aside from your misinterpreting of my conclusion.

Religion, for whatever reason, exists, and we have kept it as part of our civilisation - and you have acknowledged yourself that part of the reason some of these crimes of passion take place is because a phoney follower of a religion may use his faith to justify doing it. However, just because he is not a 'good' follower does not mean religion is entirely absolved. Religion is overbearing. The construct and maintenance of monotheism in particular must be held to account for its part in social issues and incidents such as this, or else people as a whole will never learn.

I'd like to tell you something. I'm a raised Christian. I've read the Qur'an twice, as well as the Bible three times. I've been writing a thesis which partly deals with religious texts, which has received very positive feedback so far. Therefore I know full well that the last thing either text wishes for is a practicing follower to commit murder. My concern is the impact religion seems to have on our society at times - it's there, it breathes, and it is misinterpreted by dangerous people. Am I then justified in resenting the presence of religion when I think it's having the wrong impact? Yes, I believe I am.

Less disdain in your next reply please - I've been perfectly polite. Disagreement is natural.
 
I wish the media would stop throwing the word "honour killing" around whenever theres a murder!

A killing in cold blood has nothing to do with honour!
 
It has nothing to do with religion whatsoever. It is common place in the sub-continent regardless of religion: Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims. In England too, it's a mix of religions when we hear about these. It has everything to do with culture and a distinct lack of education.

It is a disgusting practice and needs to be addressed but can only be done so with a progressive mentality, not with laws.

What subcontinent??
Speak for your own country buddy!!
 
Your second paragraph here is where we agree - aside from your misinterpreting of my conclusion.

Religion, for whatever reason, exists, and we have kept it as part of our civilisation - and you have acknowledged yourself that part of the reason some of these crimes of passion take place is because a phoney follower of a religion may use his faith to justify doing it. However, just because he is not a 'good' follower does not mean religion is entirely absolved. Religion is overbearing. The construct and maintenance of monotheism in particular must be held to account for its part in social issues and incidents such as this, or else people as a whole will never learn.

That's a silly argument. Criminals use all sorts of excuses to justify their crime including religion, doesn't mean that they're right. No religion AFAIK justifies killing of an innocent person and especially Islam and there's NO ambiguity about it either. The Quran is very explicit in this matter and there's no room for "misinterpretation" of text in this regard. Honour killing is not supported from any Islamic text AFAIK. So, any moron that tries to justify using religion is just that - a moron, who's desperately looking for an excuse.

Moreover, any text can be misinterpreted in that way and it doesn't necessarily have to be a religious one. It's quite silly of you to claim that religious interpretation (which it is not) is responsible for this.
 
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You can see my grounding in religious study above. I've already acknowledged above almost everything that you said...

...however, I will not agree that I am being silly. I don't believe it is silly to suggest part of the reason some people do bad things is the existence of religion. I repeat again - I am not blasting the more transparently moral teachings of the religious texts. But we 'have' religion and that has consequences on the way people act.

It requires the misinterpretation of an existing religion, yes, but I would argue that for a human to abuse a system, the system has to be in place for them to abuse it. This overbearing construct of religion we have in our civilisation can be questioned in its social impact - just as non-belief in God, and the consequences of that, is frequently questioned by religious individuals. That is their right just as this is mine.

You see how cautious I'm being here? I'm not an anti-theist. However, I refuse to back down from this issue. I'm not prepared to absolve things, however established, if they may have a share of responsibility in what happens in society.
 
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What subcontinent??
Speak for your own country buddy!!

I know you hate Pakistan but please stop talking from your backside. Honour killings are common in India and Bangladesh as well not just Pakistan.
Also I agree its not religion but just a backward culture from these people.

Looking at that pic made me so sad, such senseless killing.
 
You can see my grounding in religious study above. I've already acknowledged above almost everything that you said...

...however, I will not agree that I am being silly. I don't believe it is silly to suggest part of the reason some people do bad things is the existence of religion. I repeat again - I am not blasting the more transparently moral teachings of the religious texts. But we 'have' religion and that has consequences on the way people act.

It requires the misinterpretation of an existing religion, yes, but I would argue that for a human to abuse a system, the system has to be in place for them to abuse it. This overbearing construct of religion we have in our civilisation can be questioned in its social impact - just as non-belief in God, and the consequences of that, is frequently questioned by religious individuals. That is their right just as this is mine.

You see how cautious I'm being here? I'm not an anti-theist. However, I refuse to back down from this issue. I'm not prepared to absolve things, however established, if they may have a share of responsibility in what happens in society.

This to me sounds like an accused (innocent) person in court of law who just happened to be at the crime scene.
 
lol I think you're having a go at PakPrince and tanzeel here but just so you know, this is mixture of both US and UK Pakistani nationals.

As per the news

Pretty sure it's not us, neither one of us is American/Pakistani American. What happened was terrible though, regardless of the perpetrators/victims' nationality.
 
I know you hate Pakistan but please stop talking from your backside. Honour killings are common in India and Bangladesh as well not just Pakistan.
Also I agree its not religion but just a backward culture from these people.

Looking at that pic made me so sad, such senseless killing.

What?? Zaid hamid told u that??
 
paindoos

thats what pak is full of

paindoos

Of course it is. What do you expect in all seriousness? Much of Pakistan had barely moved beyond the middle ages when people arrived in the west from villages where school was considered a luxury with the first wave of immigration. Things have moved on a lot since but it will take another generation before this dark age mentality is filtered out. It's like America 100 years ago when the old Italians used to carry out vendetta killings.
 
Of course it is. What do you expect in all seriousness? Much of Pakistan had barely moved beyond the middle ages when people arrived in the west from villages where school was considered a luxury with the first wave of immigration. Things have moved on a lot since but it will take another generation before this dark age mentality is filtered out. It's like America 100 years ago when the old Italians used to carry out vendetta killings.

very well said
 
Get real bub, pathans are the only ones who arem't into this whole honor killing business(wouldn't think twice about walking into the rapists' home and putting two bullets apiece in each one of them but that's how the pathan moral code works). The most prominent hotbed for practitioners of honor killings is Sindh(by a country mile) followed by rural Punjab particularly southern Punjab aka the seraiki belt and to some extent, Balochistan. If you're unsure of your facts, at least don't make stuff up about something you know nothing about.

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/editorials/article/1096490--words-are-just-the-beginning

happens everywhere where there is jahalat .
 
Family jailed for honour killing of Sadia

sheikh729-420x0.jpg

Guilty ... (Second row from left) brother Mudusar, 27, sister Sariya, 22, father Tarik Mahmood Sheikh, 61, and mother Parveen Zahida (R), 59, in court. Photo: AFP


A Belgian court has sentenced four members of a Pakistani family to prison for the "honour killing" of their law student daughter and sister.

After pronouncing the family members guilty for the shooting death of Sadia Sheikh in October 2007, the jury sentenced father Tarik Mahmood Sheikh to 25 years behind bars, mother Zahida Parveen Sariya to 20 years, brother Mudusar to 15 and sister Sariya to five years.

Lawyers for the family said brother Mudusar, who confessed to pulling the trigger on the three bullets that killed his sister, was handed a lesser jail term than his parents as they were considered to have ordered the girl's death.


sadi353-200x0.jpg

Victim ... Sadia Sheikh.

Prosecutors had asked for a life sentence for all three, and between 20 and 30 years behind bars for Sariya.

Sadia Sheikh, who defied the family by living with a Belgian and refusing an arranged marriage, was shot dead when aged 20 on October 22, 2007.

Mudusar admitted before the jury of five women and seven men to killing his sister while saying the rest of the family were not to blame.

Her parents and sister stood accused of aiding and abetting the killing which took place when the student visited her family in the hopes of patching up their quarrel.

Questioned during Belgium's first "honour killing" trial in southwestern Mons, Mudusar said the killing was premeditated "for a long time".

The trial also involved rights groups pleading for gender equality as part of a civil suit at the hearings.

Sadia Sheikh left the family home to study after her shopkeeper parents tried to arrange a marriage with a cousin living in Pakistan she had never met.

Before moving in with a Belgian man her age named Jean, she was helped by fellow students and teachers and also spent some time in a centre for victims of domestic violence, where she drew up a will as she felt threatened.

She had nonetheless agreed to visit the family in hopes of making peace the day she was shot.

The father, mother and sister, also facing charges of "attempting to arrange a marriage", denied involvement in the murder, saying Mudusar killed his sister in a fit of rage.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/family-jailed-for-honour-killing-of-sadia-20111213-1os65.html
 
Sad story. I don't know how her brother can live in peace after killing her (not to mention her family members, who were also involved in her death).
 
How can one do this to anothes family member or any human, where is the honour in that, they should have got more longer sentences, really sad to read this sort of stuff, when will cases such as these come to an end :(
 
Embarassing and depressing stuff :(.

Really how can one even think of killing one of there family member? One who they have lived for so long, how can a mother or a father even think of killing her daughter?

In Mississauga it was Aqsa Pervaiz who's brother/father killed her because she denied to wear Hijab.

Then there was this Afghan Canadian family three daughters and mother.

Shocking stuff really.
 
wow i think we have evolved beyond arranged marriages and honour killings for people to carry on like this is horrible
 
its sad when people of PP reads some random news of western media and start criticizing like dumbs -

unfortunately we all judge other people by their actions and judge ourselves by intentions

never the less if the guy actually did kill due to so called HONOUR - i wish him harsh sentence
 
His intention was to kill. It was premeditated.

And his action resulted in her death.

So yes, criticism is what the killer will get, regardless of the debate behind 'honor' and 'propaganda'
 
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Sad sad sad.

What do you do when your sister/daughter does this, you disown her, no need to kill anyone. If she's big enough to go around with guys outside of marriage, she's big enough to be left alone. They got pubnished and rightly so, unfortunately the sentences are not fair. Why is the sister only getting 5 years? Why the hell are the women always treated more lightly when they are the biggest problem in these horrible crimes.
 
His intention was to kill. It was premeditated.

And his action resulted in her death.

So yes, criticism is what the killer will get, regardless of the debate behind 'honor' and 'propaganda'

We don't know if she got what she deserved either.

Who's to say she did not commit fornication/adultery which according to some interpretations of hadith, is a crime punishable by death.
 
Yes, I am a liberal/secular then, because I don't believe in killing people for adultery [if that is what she did].
 
personally i think The women of house are the ones who would have forced this idiot to kill his sister -
but they are ignored for harsher sentence - sad
 
Yes, I am a liberal/secular then, because I don't believe in killing people for adultery [if that is what she did].

Your opinion - i wont argue

i wish you (+ everyone) never come across anything like this in your life

its NOT very easy some time to put yourself in somebody elses shoes
 
Fair enough, PerfectionPersonified. I won't argue either, as it's just my opinion which is unlikely to change.
 
We don't know if she got what she deserved either.

Who's to say she did not commit fornication/adultery which according to some interpretations of hadith, is a crime punishable by death.

Since her parents moved to a country where laws aren't bound by Quran or hadith it's a redundant point. Really they should have stayed in Pakistan rather than chase the money in a non-muslim country if they held such views.
 
Since her parents moved to a country where laws aren't bound by Quran or hadith it's a redundant point. Really they should have stayed in Pakistan rather than chase the money in a non-muslim country if they held such views.
Exactly. Can't believe people still defend such actions. If they want to follow the hadith so much, move to Saudi Arabia instead of chasing $$$
 
So the girl's fault was that she left her family to marry a Belgian man?

She is a law student and of course will meet many men during her education. Her only fault was that she loved a Belgian man and her family could not digest the fact that their girl could actually love some one not from their community.
 
i'm totally against honur killing

the family should have kicked her out and disowned for life, if she wanted to live a western lifestyle fine in 20 yrs she would have been like a typical gori, middleaged budi divorced left with kids no one wants father gone awol most gori have kids with multiple partners.

and then when she would have been 40 or 50 yrs old she would regret and think my parents were right and wanted best for me.

this is a horrible crime

but i understand where the family come from their lives would have been made hell by relatives and friends who would have said where is your daughter why has she ran away its a simple case of bayzti

i challenge anyone if their sister ran away from home and ran away with a **** or kafir , and then see the anguish on their parents face and smug relatives coming to give their 2 cents worth and rub in the bayzti. what u would do.

they should have known that in the west beghairat things like this and freedom for women to drop their knickers are protected so instead of going down to a low level and comitting a huge sin by murdering their daughter they should have simply disowned their daughter, had sabr to deal with the bayzti in the long run allah swt would have rewarded them in this life and the afterlife.
 
i'm totally against honur killing

the family should have kicked her out and disowned for life, if she wanted to live a western lifestyle fine in 20 yrs she would have been like a typical gori, middleaged budi divorced left with kids no one wants father gone awol most gori have kids with multiple partners.

and then when she would have been 40 or 50 yrs old she would regret and think my parents were right and wanted best for me.

this is a horrible crime

but i understand where the family come from their lives would have been made hell by relatives and friends who would have said where is your daughter why has she ran away its a simple case of bayzti

i challenge anyone if their sister ran away from home and ran away with a **** or kafir , and then see the anguish on their parents face and smug relatives coming to give their 2 cents worth and rub in the bayzti. what u would do.

they should have known that in the west beghairat things like this and freedom for women to drop their knickers are protected so instead of going down to a low level and comitting a huge sin by murdering their daughter they should have simply disowned their daughter, had sabr to deal with the bayzti in the long run allah swt would have rewarded them in this life and the afterlife.


How do you know that she will be divorced with multiple kids and will have multiple partners?

My friends aunt is married to a White Dutch guy and they are still together after 25yrs with 3 kids. 2 kids looked Indian and one kid looked totally white with blonde hair. I met them when they visited India 5yrs ago.

Not everyone in the West is about divorcing. We cannot stereotype all White people. :warne
 
Why come and live in a country where you knew very well that something like this (living with a white man) can happen to your sons and daughters....not that it does not happen in Pakistan?
 
How do you know that she will be divorced with multiple kids and will have multiple partners?

My friends aunt is married to a White Dutch guy and they are still together after 25yrs with 3 kids. 2 kids looked Indian and one kid looked totally white with blonde hair. I met them when they visited India 5yrs ago.

Not everyone in the West is about divorcing. We cannot stereotype all White people. :warne

Generally white people who marry into Asian families adopt a lot of the culture as well. Let's face it, beyond the dramatic headlines, even desis who marry out want to keep their family values which have taken a fair battering in the west - so they usually raise their kids very responsibly from what I've seen.
 
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