Honour Killings

[Keith]

How about the woman!?

Speaks for itself, really.

Both parties to an affair are wrong.

 

[Liberty]

Having an affair is not a crime.

 

[Keith]

Having an affair is not a crime.

Maybe not in a purely "criminal" sense but what it does to the other partners is "criminal". I am however not condoning, in any manner, the retribution dished out, that was criminal.

Wedding vows are (most often) made before God, if you have an affair you are not only cheating on your partner but you are cheating on God.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

This is one instance where the man has come out worst... usually the women bear the brunt of the consequences. What is even more cruel that he was lured into the trap by the woman herself.

Saying that I am not condoning the affair in anyway.

 

[Liberty]

Maybe not in a purely "criminal" sense but what it does to the other partners is "criminal".

How? What does it do to the other partner? Marriage contract is a mere promise, which cannot be enforced, since both the man and woman have the right to change their mind at any time over the who comes in contact with his/her body. Just to think along the idea that the male has absolute control over who touches the body of his partner would just be slavery.

I am however not condoning, in any manner, the retribution dished out, that was criminal.

It was the only crime that was committed in the article.

 

[Keith]

How? What does it do to the other partner? Marriage contract is a mere promise, which cannot be enforced, since both the man and woman have the right to change their mind at any time over the who comes in contact with his/her body. Just to think along the idea that the male has absolute control over who touches the body of his partner would just be slavery.

It was the only crime that was committed in the article.

) You are obviously not married!! (Also, never get married either!!!)

Marriage (taking out all the emotion / feelings) is a contract, entered into by 2 willing partners making certain vows to each other of which 1 is to be faithful to each other. The man does not own the woman (and vica versa) but there are certain boundaries that cannot be overstepped. It has nothing to do with "slavery".

 

[Robert]

How? What does it do to the other partner? Marriage contract is a mere promise, which cannot be enforced, since both the man and woman have the right to change their mind at any time over the who comes in contact with his/her body. Just to think along the idea that the male has absolute control over who touches the body of his partner would just be slavery.

Or for the female.

Or for same-sex couples.

But... cheating on your partner will always have bad outcomes.

 

[Zaz]

Despicable cowardly behaviour, hope they get sent down for a long time

 

[IgnitedMind]

Honour Killings: Man guns down six daughters in Faisalabad, Pakistan

A man gunned down six of his daughters on suspicion that two of them were in relationships with boys in the neighbourhood.
On Tuesday morning, Arif Mubashir called his teenage daughters to his room and shot them while the rest of the family, including their mother, watched. His wife Musarrat called the police after the incident.
Mubashir shot the girls after their brother said two of them were in a relationship. He told police officials that he had killed his daughters because they were both “without honour”. The man said his daughters Sameena, 14, and Razia, 16, were in a relationship with college boys from the neighbourhood and the sisters had helped each other. “I should have been told immediately but the girls sided with each other. They were both corrupt,” Mubashir told Tandlianwala Police Inspector Javed Sial.
Police officials have taken Mubashir into custody and filed a case against him. “He does not regret what he did. He boasted that he would do it all over again if he had to,” Sial told reporters.
Pakistan has repeatedly been termed as one of the least women-friendly countries. In June, the Thompson Reuters Foundation ranked Pakistan as the world’s third most dangerous country for women.
Published in The Express Tribune, July 27th, 2011.

http://tribune.com.pk/story/218250/honour-killings-man-guns-down-six-daughters/

 

[Prince_Pathan]

what do these people gain from killing their own flesh and blood

so what if the daughter liked a guy...love is not a sin? or is it?

man this guy deserves to get a death sentance

 

[Looney]

he does not even regret it , i bet he is mental

 

[chaiwala]

Sick news. How can you kill your own daughters?

 

[Ashraful_Rox]

Sick news, this guy should be buried alive. What monsters we have in this world.

 

[Aly]

These killings are a routine in rural Punjab,the worst thing is that even the laws encourage the offenders to take such extreme actions, since more often than not it is done with the consent of male members of the family ( father, brother /uncle ),with the father eventually forgiving his son/ brother for the murder of his daughter in the name of honor

 

[kkmix]

^ yeah but Faisalabad isn't rural, is it?

This sort of thing could take place anywhere in the sub continent.

very sad indeed.

 

[Aly]

^ yeah but Faisalabad isn't rural, is it?

This sort of thing could take place anywhere in the sub continent.

very sad indeed.

Lol, read carefully, it happened in "Tandlianwala" actually, a small village in the outskirts of Faisalabad ..Faisalabad is only named since it comes under what you call Faisalabad district (which btw is so huge that once even sargodha city was a part of It )

 

[kkmix]

read the article few times, no where I found saying that it 'happened in Tandlianwala'.

Pakistan has repeatedly been termed as one of the least women-friendly countries.

It's sad but true.

 

[Down2Earth]

this seems to be a problem everywhere. sub continent is completely messed up and there were even cases in turkey.

 

[Aly]

read the article few times, no where I found saying that it 'happened in Tandlianwala'.



It's sad but true.

They were both corrupt,” Mubashir told Tandlianwala Police Insp

Don't see any faisalabadi going all the way to Tandlianwala police station in order to report it unless it actually happened in Tandlianwala

 

[Saad Hasan]

Why is this jahalat so prevalent in punjab, both East and West...

 

[Aly]

Why is this jahalat so prevalent in punjab, both East and West...

Lack of education, lawlessness, tribal culture, easy availability of arms/ a culture that encourages keeping arms etc etc

Now of course that isn't something which is exclusive to Punjab only ..
in fact incidents like these keep happening un interior sindh, Baluchistan, k.p, northern / tribal areas ( where the lawlessness/ media coverage is even worse than Punjab and hence most of the time such incidents don't even get reported ) but since population wise Punjab constitutes most of Pakistan so it's only natural that it will have more numbers of such cases

 

[cric_craze]

Its his fault his girls ended up in a relationship. To remove the guilt he just kills them....

 

[kingusama92]

Messed up lunatic.

What's perplexing is he killed six daughters because two were "corrupt" in his eyes?

He killed four extra daughters for what?!

 

[Cricketismylife]

Messed up lunatic.

What's perplexing is he killed six daughters because two were "corrupt" in his eyes?

He killed four extra daughters for what?!

he thinks he's got his honour by killing them all?? still cant make sense of it....

 

[Garuda]

what do these people gain from killing their own flesh and blood

so what if the daughter liked a guy...love is not a sin? or is it?
man this guy deserves to get a death sentance

People consider a handshake as a sin. You are asking about love affairs.


Sick mentality. Like I had said in another thread "honor" is a synonym for selfishness. Its all about me, how will I show my face, my dignity, my image in society.

 

[kingusama92]

Aly, your post was a tad too graphic of an explanation.

Good, but OTT.

 

[WithLoveFromCanada]

^^ Where's that post you're talking about???

as far as topic is concerned...very very sad and disturbing news...I think this guy should be fed to lions

 

[cricketfanfirst]

Very sad news but this is unfortunately happens many a times in our part of the world. This has happened many times in some rural/feudal parts of India too. This will continue to happen in our society until police take stringent action against these perpetrators. I think all these are systematic diseases just like corruption, extremism, seems difficult to dislodge them from the mindsets of these people.

 

[kingusama92]

^^ Where's that post you're talking about???

as far as topic is concerned...very very sad and disturbing news...I think this guy should be fed to lions

Was removed.

Like I said, too graphic.

 

[Mobashir]

This is a really sad news, why kill 6 daughters when only two have affairs. And by reading the news, it sounded like the 4 other were younger than 14 years old.
The guy should get a punishment thzt he deserves...
Very sad that these kinds of anti-islamic things are done on the name of Islam.

 

[ammo]

wow, what a sad, sad man.

 

[Runner Up]

This is not the Honour Killing. This is an act of a Mentally SICK person.

 

[Khabri420]

What a shame. Unfortunately jahalat is so prevalent in our country on so many different levels.

 

[Third Umpire]

let him rot forever, filthy animal.

 

[Wiji]

Someone mentioned that this is not only a Punjabi phenomenon. Although that may partly be true, the Punjab tribal areas are more notorious than the Northern tribal areas when it comes to crime and brutal violence against women. I am not sure why this is the case.

Grave crimes against women, such as 'honour' killings, 'honour' rapes, and acid attacks, are relatively unheard of in the Northern Areas, contrary to popular perception.

 

[Abdullah22]

I never understood this type of brutal(honor) killing.

 

[Riff]

what do these people gain from killing their own flesh and blood

so what if the daughter liked a guy...love is not a sin? or is it?

man this guy deserves to get a death sentance

Islam is pretty much against love of that sort I think

 

[mithun_minhas]

In Western Countries, Parents encourage their kids to have boyfriends and girlfriends.... Here in subcontinent, they get killed by parents for having a boyfriend....

All of these Religious laws (tribal or non-tribal) are created to satisfy the ego of the man(head of the family). Women are never taken into consideration in these laws. As long as the man is happy, everything is alright

Its the same in Indian Punjab too... We hear these kinds of cases once or twice a year.

 

[Aly]

Someone mentioned that this is not only a Punjabi phenomenon. Although that may partly be true, the Punjab tribal areas are more notorious than the Northern tribal areas when it comes to crime and brutal violence against women. I am not sure why this is the case.

Grave crimes against women, such as 'honour' killings, 'honour' rapes, and acid attacks, are relatively unheard of in the Northern Areas, contrary to popular perception.

Well one reason could be that even for such heinous crimes against women you need a relatively free society where the interaction of women with the outside world is good enough that such "misdoings" of theirs could be comprehended (seem logical )in the first place, though when we talk about the tribal regions unfortunately such is the general suffocating life of women there that the question of them being involved in such kind of activities is more or less beyond imagination ..If you know what I mean

Also media is so much oblivious as to what actually goes on in those far flung areas that its only by pure luck that we got to know about women being buried alive let's say for instance in Baluchistan (which mind you is much more under the microscope of media as compared to the tribal regions )

 

[IgnitedMind]

Well...even a Handshake was questioned by educated internet using people yesterday. So...not actually suprising coming from rural people. however its very sad, women are considered property and associate honor with their doings as trivial as loving somebody else. As somebody else said..Honor is the most selfish thing ever..I just dont get it how hard is it for a man(human) to understand that women is as intelligent as much a humam as he is.

 

[Abdullah22]

In Western Countries, Parents encourage their kids to have boyfriends and girlfriends.... Here in subcontinent, they get killed by parents for having a boyfriend....

All of these Religious laws (tribal or non-tribal) are created to satisfy the ego of the man(head of the family). Women are never taken into consideration in these laws. As long as the man is happy, everything is alright

Its the same in Indian Punjab too... We hear these kinds of cases once or twice a year.

What does religion have to do with this?

 

[Wiji]

Well one reason could be that even for such heinous crimes against women you need a relatively free society where the interaction of women with the outside world is good enough that such "misdoings" of theirs could be comprehended (seem logical )in the first place, though when we talk about the tribal regions unfortunately such is the general suffocating life of women there that the question of them being involved in such kind of activities is more or less beyond imagination ..If you know what I mean

Also media is so much oblivious as to what actually goes on in those far flung areas that its only by pure luck that we got to know about women being buried alive let's say for instance in Baluchistan (which mind you is much more under the microscope of media as compared to the tribal regions )

Fair enough.

However, I still perceive there to be a notable difference between the culture and customs of the tribal regions of the North and Punjab in their approach to women, law, crime, and human life in general. A tribal 'jirga' of the North would never sentence a woman to be subject to gang rape as punishment for whatever reason. That is unthinkable. Neither would the brutal murder of women be condoned in the name of some twisted moral code.

Such an inhumane and barbaric worldview appears to be widespread among the tribal leaders and powerful landlords of Punjab. The reason for this is still unclear to me.

 

[mithun_minhas]

What does religion have to do with this?

I am not saying its a religious law. Sorry if I did not put out my thoughts correctly...

Most of the laws whether they are religious/tribal/non-tribal laws are created to fulfill mans ego.

As long as the man is happy with what is happening around, everything is honorable and alright... The moment he feels that something is going against his wishes, it is a dishonor.

 

[Fireworks11]

Disgusting. How could anyone do that...so heartless. Sheer ignorance.

 

[mithun_minhas]

Well...even a Handshake was questioned by educated internet using people yesterday. So...not actually suprising coming from rural people. however its very sad, women are considered property and associate honor with their doings as trivial as loving somebody else. As somebody else said..Honor is the most selfish thing ever..I just dont get it how hard is it for a man(human) to understand that women is as intelligent as much a humam as he is.

Dude, even in Hindu households we keep hearing that "Aurat/Mahila ghar ki izzat, samman hoti hain!!!"

It clearly means that a women is the honor of the house.... So obviously a nut job who thinks that his daughter or sister has a illegit relationship with an outside man will feel that she has brought a great dishonor to the family.. Its only a matter of time some one goes nuts and kills his daughter or sister for dishonoring the family

Society needs to come out of the mindset that women are the honor of the family. They should not be treated like property and objects of pleasure. That is the only solution.

 

[Howzat]

Well...even a Handshake was questioned by educated internet using people yesterday. So...not actually suprising coming from rural people. however its very sad, women are considered property and associate honor with their doings as trivial as loving somebody else. As somebody else said..Honor is the most selfish thing ever..I just dont get it how hard is it for a man(human) to understand that women is as intelligent as much a humam as he is.

There. You know where the problem lies.

 

[IgnitedMind]

Dude, even in Hindu households we keep hearing that "Aurat/Mahila ghar ki izzat, samman hoti hain!!!"

It clearly means that a women is the honor of the house.... So obviously a nut job who thinks that his daughter or sister has a illegit relationship with an outside man will feel that she has brought a great dishonor to the family.. Its only a matter of time some one goes nuts and kills his daughter or sister for dishonoring the family

Society needs to come out of the mindset that women are the honor of the family. They should not be treated like property and objects of pleasure. That is the only solution.

I am talking about any religion. Since you brought it up, I donno the original rules in hinduism...but hindus kinda became very liberal for good lately that we really dont care. However the rural still has it which is more in tune with the society they live in than the religion than they believe in. I dont think Hindus make claims like "shaking hands is wrong" according to a religion. I am no expert and I am an athiest but I just feel hinduism(followed today) is just more liberal and todays hindus are way more liberal. But incidents like these are more in tune with the society they live in than the religion. However I do find it amazing that educated people also question things like women handshake and make statements like "I will never ALLOW women in my house to shake hands with strangers" siting their religion which actually brings more bad name to their religion in a civilized world than the actually extermists who bomb and stuff. Because in the latter, we do know that any religion does not encourage violence..but the former ..sure gives a bad name.

 

[mithun_minhas]

I am talking about any religion. Since you brought it up, I donno the original rules in hinduism...but hindus kinda became very liberal for good lately that we really dont care. However the rural still has it which is more in tune with the society they live in than the religion than they believe in. I dont think Hindus make claims like "shaking hands is wrong" according to a religion. I am no expert and I am an athiest but I just feel hinduism(followed today) is just more liberal and todays hindus are way more liberal. But incidents like these are more in tune with the society they live in than the religion. However I do find it amazing that educated people also question things like women handshake and make statements like "I will never ALLOW women in my house to shake hands with strangers" siting their religion which actually brings more bad name to their religion in a civilized world than the actually extermists who bomb and stuff. Because in the latter, we do know that any religion does not encourage violence..but the former ..sure gives a bad name.

From the knowledge I have about Hinduism, our religius books do not call for honor killings.... Women are given ample freedom....

In fact, a few hundred years back, Hinduism was very liberal... Sex was not a taboo. Women had free will to partner anyone of her choice.

All of that slowly started changing with the influence of Budhism first and then later by other religions... Even the Pardah system that some rural households and traditional households follow is again foreign to subcontinent.. If you look at Ramayana or Mahabharata, women never hid themselves when an outsider comes to visit the house.

But some how North India seems to be affected by this pardah system. Never saw that in South India.

 

[IgnitedMind]

From the knowledge I have about Hinduism, our religius books do not call for honor killings.... Women are given ample freedom....

In fact, a few hundred years back, Hinduism was very liberal... Sex was not a taboo. Women had free will to partner anyone of her choice.

All of that slowly started changing with the influence of Budhism first and then later by other religions... Even the Pardah system that some rural households and traditional households follow is again foreign to subcontinent.. If you look at Ramayana or Mahabharata, women never hid themselves when an outsider comes to visit the house.

But some how North India seems to be affected by this pardah system. Never saw that in South India.

True. I think Women actually chose the husband than vice versa. And ofcourse..we were more immune to sex..with some of our temples having provoking carvings..and gave sex its importance(kamasutra) . I also think there were several instance in hindu mythology where women seduced men because she liked him or coz for the greater good the society. Anyways...yaa..however we were plagued with stuff like Sathi or other barbaric stuff later on for whatever reasons...good we got rid of them. Yeah, Marwadis and other women wear pardah when other men are around unlike in south India. I think in south where I can come from, there are no restrictions on women in general according to the religion..even if they are..personally I havent seen anybody caring to practise them.

 

[Opener]

From the knowledge I have about Hinduism, our religius books do not call for honor killings.... Women are given ample freedom....

In fact, a few hundred years back, Hinduism was very liberal... Sex was not a taboo. Women had free will to partner anyone of her choice.

All of that slowly started changing with the influence of Budhism first and then later by other religions... Even the Pardah system that some rural households and traditional households follow is again foreign to subcontinent.. If you look at Ramayana or Mahabharata, women never hid themselves when an outsider comes to visit the house.

But some how North India seems to be affected by this pardah system. Never saw that in South India.

What about Sati?

 

[mithun_minhas]

True. I think Women actually chose the husband than vice versa. And ofcourse..we were more immune to sex..with some of our temples having provoking carvings..and gave sex its importance(kamasutra) . I also think there were several instance in hindu mythology where women seduced men because she liked him or coz for the greater good the society. Anyways...yaa..however we were plagued with stuff like Sathi or other barbaric stuff later on for whatever reasons...good we got rid of them. Yeah, Marwadis and other women wear pardah when other men are around unlike in south India. I think in south where I can come from, there are no restrictions on women in general according to the religion..even if they are..personally I havent seen anybody caring to practise them.

Absolutely true... SOme of the most famous temples in India have really hardcore sex carvings...

Sex was considered divine centuries ago.. Women used to choose her man through Swayamvar. Bharat Varsha(Epic India) was prosperous and had some of the best civilizations in the world.


Sad to see that from such a liberal society, honor killings, pardah system, sati(Happens only in Rajasthan) have come out.

I am glad that Sati is completely abolished from the society. Pardah and honor killings still persist in rural Punjab, Haryana and UP.

 

[USIND]

This is so pathetic....God give some sense to these inhumans.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Messed up lunatic.

What's perplexing is he killed six daughters because two were "corrupt" in his eyes?

He killed four extra daughters for what?!

Just in case they were thinking of following suit. Better safe than sorry...

It's up to the state really to show that this sort of brutality won't be tolerated. If you are going to have capital punishment then it should be used in cases like this one, publicly if necessary, with full media condemnation to strip him of his so called honour.

 

[Aly]

Fair enough.

However, I still perceive there to be a notable difference between the culture and customs of the tribal regions of the North and Punjab in their approach to women, law, crime, and human life in general. A tribal 'jirga' of the North would never sentence a woman to be subject to gang rape as punishment for whatever reason. That is unthinkable. Neither would the brutal murder of women be condoned in the name of some twisted moral code.

Such an inhumane and barbaric worldview appears to be widespread among the tribal leaders and powerful landlords of Punjab. The reason for this is still unclear to me.

Well tbh while I don't think that the situation in Punjab (at least the main land North Punjab ) is as gloomy and hopeless as you make it out to be( if anything,let me tell you that even the people of Punjab think of the interior sindh and south Punjab in the same way as you are thinking about them, thanks to the eternal poverty found in these areas, the ruthless grip of vadira/ jageerdaar systems on these areas and lastly not to mention those infamous traditions like vanni /karokari which are mainly pervalant in the same regions ), I do believe that the main reason behind the somewhat better situation found in regions like k.p/tribal regions- in the sense that you at least don't find incidents like that of Mukhtaran bibi etc there - is that no matter how flawed, crude, ancient it might be but at least they have some sort of proven system in place (in the form of religion ) that almost each and everyone of them adhere to religiously as well as seriously

On the other hand the problem with rural Punjab is that just like most of the Punjab (be it rural or urban ) religion is only limited to mere rhetoric here ( I.e
they make sure that they remain politically correct and make all kinds of right sounds when it comes to "talking religion up" but are not really interested when it comes to "walk that talk " )

Moreover, the rural Punjab doesn't have any real/serious following for legal /ethical system either since literacy rate is just like any other rural area of Pakistan.

So all in all I think it is the lack of any real system as well as pure ignorance
towards ethics that give birth to incidents like that of Mukhtaran Mai etc

 

[mithun_minhas]

What about Sati?

Specific to Rajasthan and mostly among Rajputs....

Rajput women used to or forced into her husbands funeral pyre. The logic was to protect the womens honor so that the invader does not rape her

Some women might have started this and the rest of the Rajputs followed it blindly Worst part is, those people even gave it a religious twist by creating a new Goddess (Sati Devi)

Never saw this anywhere else in India. May be in places where Rajputs migrated and settled. :rana

 

[Thees_Mar_Khan]

Well tbh while I don't think that the situation in Punjab (at least the main land North Punjab ) is as gloomy and hopeless as you make it out to be( if anything,let me tell you that even the people of Punjab think of the interior sindh and south Punjab in the same way as you are thinking about them, thanks to the eternal poverty found in these areas, the ruthless grip of vadira/ jageerdaar systems on these areas and lastly not to mention those infamous traditions like vanni /karokari which are mainly pervalant in the same regions ), I do believe that the main reason behind the somewhat better situation found in regions like k.p/tribal regions- in the sense that you at least don't find incidents like that of Mukhtaran bibi etc there - is that no matter how flawed, crude, ancient it might be but at least they have some sort of proven system in place (in the form of religion ) that almost each and everyone of them adhere to religiously as well as seriously

On the other hand the problem with rural Punjab is that just like most of the Punjab (be it rural or urban ) religion is only limited to mere rhetoric here ( I.e
they make sure that they remain politically correct and make all kinds of right sounds when it comes to "talking religion up" but are not really interested when it comes to "walk that talk " )

Moreover, the rural Punjab doesn't have any real/serious following for legal /ethical system either since literacy rate is just like any other rural area of Pakistan.

So all in all I think it is the lack of any real system as well as pure ignorance
towards ethics that give birth to incidents like that of Mukhtaran Mai etc

I think one reason of KP being safe/better for women is the culture. Women are not allowed to work outside as in rural punjab, where most of the men sits home enjoying huqaah and their women working outside in the field and doing other jobs - specially in South punjab.

 

[Sir john]

RIP to girls

sick mentality.

 

[wiseguy]

RIP to the girls

he deserves the most horrible painful death! *******!!!!

 

[guvi]

Specific to Rajasthan and mostly among Rajputs....

Rajput women used to or forced into her husbands funeral pyre. The logic was to protect the womens honor so that the invader does not rape her

Some women might have started this and the rest of the Rajputs followed it blindly Worst part is, those people even gave it a religious twist by creating a new Goddess (Sati Devi)

Never saw this anywhere else in India. May be in places where Rajputs migrated and settled. :rana

Sati was widely practiced all over India... bengal... vijayanagara empire... please read the history.

 

[NO 1 AFRIDI FAN]

Disturbing, how could a father do that to his own daughters? Absolutely inhumane.

 

[chaiwala]

Alleged Rape Victim Faces Honor Killing Threats

A 17-year-old Pakistani girl is fighting for her life and justice claiming she was kidnapped for three days and gang-raped by four men.

Kainat Soomro says her life is now under threat as Pakistan tradition dictates that women who lose their virginity before they are married can be subjected to an 'honour-killing' for bringing shame and dishonour on the family.

However, her parents are refusing to allow her to be killed. They have received death threats for supporting their daughter and their new home in Karachi has been attacked by protesters.


Kainat Soomro, left, said she has been branded a black female. She has vowed to bring the alleged rapists to justice
This week Kainat told reporters Habiba Nosheen and Hilke Schellmann, who have been investigating rape cases and honor killings in Pakistan as part of an upcoming documentary, she would fight her case and take it to the Supreme Court of Pakistan if needs be.

She said: 'I want justice, I will not stop until I get justice.'

Kainat's family said tribal elders have branded her a black female - a kari - for losing her virginity out of wedlock.

Speaking of the threat to her life in her story which featured in The Atlantic she said: 'It is the tradition, but if the family doesn't permit it, then it won't happen.'

The teenager said she was attacked in Mehar, a small town in Pakistan in 2007, when she was walking home from school.


Kainat Soomro said the attack happened in Mehar, a small town in Pakistan in 2007, when she was walking home from school
Recalling the incident four years ago she said she stopped at a local shop to buy a toy for her niece when a man pressed a handkerchief on her nose.

She said it was at this point she fainted, was kidnapped and then raped by four men but finally escaped after three days.

Her father said he had tried to get the alleged rapists arrested but was stopped by police.

However, a local judge has insisted there is no 'corroborative evidence available on record' to bring about a prosecution and said the sole testimony of the victim was not sufficient.

In addition it is not police procedure in Pakistan to collect material evidence in rape cases since police rarely believe rape victims.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-killing-fight-justice.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

I'm really glad her parents stood up to this idiotic "tradition." It is still beyond me why any parent would want to kill their own child, especially one that may be a victim of rape. I hope this girl and her family remain safe. They appear to be in a pretty serious situation.

 

[Zaz]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-killing-fight-justice.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

I'm really glad her parents stood up to this idiotic "tradition." It is still beyond me why any parent would want to kill their own child, especially one that may be a victim of rape. I hope this girl and her family remain safe. They appear to be in a pretty serious situation.

I dont think there is a "tradition" anywhere of murdering your child just cos shes been raped

Yes it may happen by some nutcase of families but its hardly a "tradition"

Daily mail doing their best to sensationalise the news

 

[Down2Earth]

this isn't a tradition and before everyone begins to target islam, the same happens in hindu and sikh families.

hopefully the men would be arrested and sentenced to death or life. I pray that she and her family overcome this horrific incident.

 

[WithLoveFromCanada]

Pakistan tradition dictates that women who lose their virginity before they are married can be subjected to an 'honour-killing' for bringing shame and dishonour on the family.

What the helll???? There's no such tradition in Pakistan.

 

[GOAT]

LOL.. there's no "tradition" like this almost anywhere in the world. Ridiculous way to spin a story to suit your propaganda needs.

 

[Eagle_Eye]

LOL.. there's no "tradition" like this almost anywhere in the world. Ridiculous way to spin a story to suit your propaganda needs.

Its Daily Mail.... enough said! Those in UK will know what I mean.

 

[bablu_2010]

I notice that such postings are always posted by Indian users.
I think user should research before posting such nonsense postings.
There is no such tradition in Pakistan..
However I do know that in some parts of india if Husband dies they burn the wife with the dead husband as well. lols

 

[GOAT]

Chaiwala isn't a typical Indian poster, he can poster whatever he wants. I don't know why he didn't know this wasn't a tradition but he wasn't brought up in that part of the world.

 

[chaiwala]

Well, I never claimed it was a Pakistani tradition, the article did. When I stated "tradition" in my original post, I was referring to the rape victim calling it a "tradition." See below:

Speaking of the threat to her life in her story which featured in The Atlantic she said: 'It is the tradition, but if the family doesn't permit it, then it won't happen.'

So, from what I understand, the victim is implying that this is a tradition in her local area, but not necessarily a "Pakistani tradition." I apologize for the confusion.

As far as the article is concerned, I intentionally used a non-American based source because posters here tend to discredit American sources (due to possible "bias" or whatever). But based on the objections above, it seems I picked a really s*itty source. And to be honest, I barely read over it when I posted it, which in retrospect, seems like a bad idea. Without a doubt, claiming it is a "Pakistani tradition" is wholly inaccurate and offensive. I apologize for possibly offending anyone.

But either way, that wasn't really the point of this thread anyways. It was more about the difficult situation the girl is now in. I'm posting another article for the same story. It is a bit more thorough, and I don't believe it claims honor killings are a "Pakistani tradition." However, again, the rape victim does claim it is a "traidition" (but not necessarily a Pakistani one).

Please use the following article for the remainder of this thread:

Refusing to Kill Daughter, Pakistani Family Defies Tradition, Draws Anger
By Habiba Nosheen & Hilke Schellmann
A Pakistani girl who says she was kidnapped and gang-raped faces a new threat: honor killings, a tradition here, but one that her family refuses to carry out

KARACHI, PAKISTAN -- Kainat Soomro is a 17-year-old Pakistani girl who has become a local celebrity of sorts in her battle for justice in the Pakistani courts, a daring move for a woman of any age in this country, let alone a teenager.
She is fighting to get justice for a gang rape that she insists happened four years ago in Mehar, a small town in Pakistan.

We first met her in the office of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan. A colorful traditional Pakistani shawl covered her head. Her father sat next to her as she recounted the 2007 incident.

"I was walking home from my school and I went to the store to buy a toy for my niece," she said, staring at the floor of the office. "While I was looking at things a guy pressed a handkerchief on my nose. I fainted and was kidnapped. Then four men gang raped me."

As she shared details of her days in captivity and multiple rapes, she kept repeating, "I want justice, I will not stop until I get justice." After three days, she was finally able to escape she said. As she spoke, her father gently tapped her head. He said he tried to get Kainat's alleged rapists arrested, but instead he was rebuffed by the police.

According to the Kainat family's account, the tribal elders declared her kari, (which literally means black female), for losing her virginity outside marriage.

In Pakistan, women and men who have illicit relationships or women who lose their virginity before marriage are at risk of paying with their lives.

"These are matters of honor and the leaders call a jirga and they declare that the woman or the couple should be killed," said Abdul Hai, a veteran field officer for the Human Rights Commission in Pakistan. These acts of violence are most commonly labeled as "honor killings."

The most recent report from the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan noted that in 2009 roughly 46 percent of all female murders in Pakistan that year were in the name of "honor." The report noted that a total of 647 incidences of "honor killings" were reported by the Pakistani press. However, experts say that actual incidences of "honor killings" in Pakistan are much higher and never get reported to the police because they are passed off by the families as suicides.

Kainat said that despite the pressures her family refused to kill her.

"It is the tradition, but if the family doesn't permit it, then it won't happen. My father, my brother, my mom didn't allow it," she said.

And that defiance has left the family fearing for their lives. The family's new home in Karachi has been attacked a number of times.

But, according to Abdul Hai, Kainat is lucky: "The woman or the girl usually gets killed and the man gets away," he said. "Over 70 percent of the murdered victims are women and only 30 percent of victims of honor killings are male."

In Karachi, Kainat and her family are now sharing one room in a run-down apartment block, and they have to rely on charities to help them pay for food.

"We go hungry many nights," said Kainat's older sister.

But their fight might never pay off. A local judge has already ruled against Kainat in the case. "There is no corroborative evidence available on record. The sole testimony of the alleged rape survivor is not sufficient," the judge said in a written decision.

Another problem is that material evidence is usually not collected in rape cases in Pakistan since the police rarely believe rape victims and therefore don't order rape kits in a timely manner.

Without medical tests to corroborate her story, it remains Kainat's word against the alleged rapists. But even having lost her case at the local court, Kainat insists, "I am not giving up, I will take this all the way to the Supreme Court of Pakistan."

http://www.theatlantic.com/internat...-daughter-who-was-raped-drawing-anger/245691/

 

[BlackThunder]

Man, this is sad and quite disturbing, I hope these death mongering nutcases who deserve to be lined up and AKed to death never achieve their objective. May god give the family the strength to continue their fight for justice.

 

[ahsan88]

Some Baloch and Pathan tribes still carry out this 'practice'.

 

[gameovais]

Until the fathers of these victims, the men in the families of these victims have the balls to step up and take some serious actions with support, none of this will change unfortunately.

I read about so many rape victims who get no justice in South Asia that it's unfortunately not surprising to read about it anymore.

Stone the rapers to death, that is what needs to be done, but unforunately Pakistan in particular is so f*cked up that they guilty walk away scotch free.

 

[Looney]

daily mail may have spice things up here a bit
nevertheless , our courts and police do not provide justice to people

 

[ahsan88]

^^ True.

Plus many in Balochistan and Sindh prefer not to go to court and settle the dispute by calling a jirga, where they carry out the punishment according to their own local customs and traditions.

 

[Prince_Pathan]

Some Baloch and Pathan tribes still carry out this 'practice'.

do they fantastic to bring in balochis and pathans into this when it happened elsewhere

do you know personally?

they would find the person and kill them and their families...it becomes a clan feud then...


8 years ago cousin being perved on in pindi...her father grabbed the guy and beat him to within his life till we told em to stop

personally i kinda wish the guy had been destroyed worse but yeah


hope the men who committed this are ripped to shreds...

 

[Khan6575]

Despicable, hope the girl makes it through.

What is sad in this thread and sort of reflects our society are people who are more concern about a quote in the article than standing up and opposing this disgusting practice.

 

[ahsan88]

do they fantastic to bring in balochis and pathans into this when it happened elsewhere

do you know personally?

they would find the person and kill them and their families...it becomes a clan feud then...


8 years ago cousin being perved on in pindi...her father grabbed the guy and beat him to within his life till we told em to stop

personally i kinda wish the guy had been destroyed worse but yeah


hope the men who committed this are ripped to shreds...

I was talking generally yar, tension q letay ho.

I don't think anyone who has read about the local customs and traditions of various tribes that inhabit our country can deny that this sort of thing does exist.

 

[Desi_Joker]

Tradition? lolwut!?

Your quota of daily trash has been served.

 

[kingusama92]

Good for the parents to stand up to those idiots wanting her killed.



It's always shocking to hear such stories coming from Pakistan and the subcontinent in general.

Worst bit is it seems the local judge and the local police haven't done their due diligence either. What a messed up system.

 

[Looney]

^^ True.

Plus many in Balochistan and Sindh prefer not to go to court and settle the dispute by calling a jirga, where they carry out the punishment according to their own local customs and traditions.

and if all else fails , they make you walk on hot burnign coals