Honour Killings

[kasoo10]

no, i have never said that

my stance is that, stoning is advocated by some of the highest scholars of islam

they must have some justification

let us hear that justification, and perhaps disprove it

and then pass a verdict either way, and ill agree with u

That justification and more is in the link I posed before in post# 112. Please do not read and keep arguing, good for health.

 

[z10]

don't u think if there was any justification the quran would have mentioned it.

could'nt care less what imams think.their opinion don't matter vis a vis the quran

ofcourse their opinions matter

elan, i agree that imams arent the be all and end all of islam, but to dismiss them like you are is to completely ignore the contribution they have made to our understanding of islam

 

[Somali Pirate]

at the end of the day it comes to this

quranic law vs imams laws

i know which one i will pick

 

[z10]

at the end of the day it comes to this

quranic law vs imams laws

i know which one i will pick

if only it was as simple as this

 

[lahori]

Let's get back to the original topic now?

My personal opinion about this whole issue is that Honor killing is not justified. It is murder, plain and simple. If a family is so concerned about their honor in their society then they should just write off their daughter and banish her from their household. That should be more than enough.

 

[lahori]

i don't follow imams.I have a brain for a reason

Could not have said it better. If only this kind of common sense was present these days we as Muslims would not have such a bad rep.

 

[Raz]

Let's get back to the original topic now?

My personal opinion about this whole issue is that Honor killing is not justified. It is murder, plain and simple. If a family is so concerned about their honor in their society then they should just write off their daughter and banish her from their household. That should be more than enough.

Or maybe try and help her back onto the right path, help her strengthen her Iman and help her develop Taqwa. Wouldn't that be better?

 

[Raz]

ofcourse their opinions matter

elan, i agree that imams arent the be all and end all of islam, but to dismiss them like you are is to completely ignore the contribution they have made to our understanding of islam

I agree with you. After all Imams are learned people and one should not be afraid to seek advice/opinions from someone who may be more learned than them with regards to Islam.

Not all Imams are preachers of hate, not all are extremists.

 

[lahori]

Or maybe try and help her back onto the right path, help her strengthen her Iman and help her develop Taqwa. Wouldn't that be better?

Indeed it would be. But unfortunately it is rare.

 

[Raz]

Indeed it would be. But unfortunately it is rare.

Yes unfortunately it is but this is something we as muslims need to work together to improve.

 

[alybaba]

Imams are fallible men, they have their own agendas. The Quran is supposedly infallible, so if a conflict arises between the two, the choice should be obvious.

 

[alghazzali]

The Imams have great Importance to Islam in today's society. They clarify issues on how Zakah should be paid, or whether using Alcohol for treatment is permissble(some say it is). Other topics include Organ Donors, Judicial Systems.

The Imams are schools of thoughts, and all of them unite on the Principles, but differ in minor issues. They were what you call mujtahids. Islam was practiced from scholars, and the original scholars were the Sahaba, as they passed on the message that was conveyed to the Prophet. The Imams should not be overlooked.

Islam is a way of life, Muslim Spain didn't say we don't want to look at Greek texts as the Quran will tell us about Maths - The Quran says "Read", and read they did.

You guys are dismissing these Mujtahids as if they were a massive hindrance, yet I can safely say none of you have studied their texts and even at the very least compared them to the Quran.

 

[nafajafam]

The Imams have great Importance to Islam in today's society. They clarify issues on how Zakah should be paid, or whether using Alcohol for treatment is permissble(some say it is). Other topics include Organ Donors, Judicial Systems.

The Imams are schools of thoughts, and all of them unite on the Principles, but differ in minor issues. They were what you call mujtahids. Islam was practiced from scholars, and the original scholars were the Sahaba, as they passed on the message that was conveyed to the Prophet. The Imams should not be overlooked.

Islam is a way of life, Muslim Spain didn't say we don't want to look at Greek texts as the Quran will tell us about Maths - The Quran says "Read", and read they did.

You guys are dismissing these Mujtahids as if they were a massive hindrance, yet I can safely say none of you have studied their texts and even at the very least compared them to the Quran.

The Quran should the source of information and if the Imam contradicts that, then I dont see why I should follow. Lot of Imams are there who spread hate and are not qualified enough.
btw, 'Iqra' means to Recite, not Read.

 

[kasoo10]

The Quran should the source of information and if the Imam contradicts that, then I dont see why I should follow. Lot of Imams are there who spread hate and are not qualified enough.
btw, 'Iqra' means to Recite, not Read.

One question is what do these so called Imams use to draw such conclusions? What is the basis of their ruling?

 

[HAFRIDI]

The Shame Of "Honor Killings" In The Muslim World

By Hesham Hassaballa, January 23, 2006

Muqadas screamed in horror as her stepfather, Nazir Ahmed, put his hand to her mouth and cut her throat with a machete. Her screams awakened her mother, and from the corner of the room, Mrs. Bibi looked on helplessly as her husband mercilessly slaughtered her other three daughters: Bano, 8, Sumaira, 7, and Humaira, 4. He only paused to brandish the knife at this horrified wife, warning her not to intervene or raise alarm.

"I was shivering with fear. I did not know how to save my daughters," Bibi, sobbing, later said. "I begged my husband to spare my daughters, but he said, 'If you make a noise, I will kill you.' The whole night the bodies of my daughters lay in front of me." Ahmed, who was arrested the next morning, was totally unrepentant: "I told the police that I am an honorable father, and I slaughtered my dishonored daughter and the three other girls." When asked why he killed the three young girls, he replied: "I thought the younger girls would do what their eldest sister had done, so they should be eliminated."

What did their eldest sister do that she be slaughtered like an animal? She was accused of adultery by her husband, from whom she fled because he had allegedly abused her and forced her to work in a brick-making factory. Mr. Ahmed did have one regret: "I wish that I get a chance to eliminate the boy she ran away with and set his home on fire." Police have said they do not know the identity or whereabouts of Muqadas' alleged lover.

I wish I could say that the above story came from a Hollywood film. Sadly, however, the above story is the true account of a so-called "honor killing" in Gago Mandi, a village in eastern Punjab province in Pakistan, as reported by the Associated Press on December 29, 2005. The Chicago Tribune reported a similar account of an honor killing in London: Heshu Yones, a 16-year old West London girl, had her throat slit by her father because she "had sullied the family name...by dating without his permission."

The story is always the same: a woman is accused of fornication or adultery and then mercilessly slaughtered by a male member of the family in order to defend the "family's honor." From where did this come? Where in the Qur'an does it sanction the murder of a woman on the mere accusation of adultery? What sort of barbarity is this?

Yes, the Qur'an does prohibit fornication and adultery: "And do not commit adultery, for behold, it is an abomination and an evil way" (17:32). But the prohibition is general, for both male and female. Moreover, the act is equally abominable when a man commits it as when a woman does. How could it be that, today, the "family honor is stained" if a woman allegedly commits adultery, but there is no worry about the family's honor when its male members "sow their wild oats"?

How could someone like Nazir Ahmed be unrepentant about killing his own flesh and blood when the very next verse in chapter 17 says: "And do not take any human being's life - [the life] which God has willed to be sacred - otherwise than in [the pursuit] of justice..." (17:33). By no stretch of the imagination could one call "defending the family's honor" an act of "justice."

It is estimated that 5,000 women worldwide are massacred every year to "defend the family honor." What is happening here? How could this occur in the 21st Century? What's next? Burying infant girls alive? Is the Muslim world going to return to this: "for, whenever any of them is given the glad tiding of [the birth of] a girl, his face darkens, and he is filled with suppressed anger, avoiding all people because of the [alleged] evil of the glad tiding which he has received, [and debating within himself]: Shall he keep this [child] despite the contempt [which he feels for it] - or shall he bury it in the dust? Oh, evil indeed is whatever they decide!" (16:58-59)? I mean with women being killed for honor, all that is left is to start worshipping statues of wood and stone once again!

It is the return of the Jahiliyyah, or pre-Islamic ignorance, into the fabric of Muslim societies. I have heard people try to explain it away by saying, "This is their culture." This makes my blood boil in anger. The Qur'an had answered this justification centuries ago: "But when they are told, 'Follow what God has bestowed from on high,' some answer, 'Nay, we shall follow [only] that which we found our forefathers believing in and doing.' Why, even if their forefathers did not use their reason at all, and were devoid of all guidance?" (2:170)

It is a repugnant stain that has absolutely no justification in Islam whatsoever. It is a cancer that must be torn away from the body of the Muslim world, and it can only be done from within the Muslim world itself. There has to be a major process of re-education, to teach these people how Islam condemned such practices over 14 centuries ago. With such clear verses in the Qur'an such as 16:58-59, one would think such a process would be easy. Unfortunately, however, old habits die hard. But this is one habit that has to die again - and this time for good.

 

[sana]

honor killings r really sad.
in islam the punishment of committing adultry is 'sansaar' (stone to death) but i think that shud b handled by the authorities not by family members.

 

[Amir]

A hot toasty spot is left for him beside the Shitan in the hereafter.

 

[Aurangzeb]

i think the government should hire death squads for feudal landlords and just eliminate them...and for people such as these...

 

[Toony™®]

attempted honour killing in Sindh

Police in Karachi say a 14-year-old girl who survived being shot five times may have been the victim of an attempted "honour killing".

Noor Jehan was allegedly shot by relatives after being declared guilty of adultery under an ancient tribal tradition in southern Pakistan.

She was left in a roadside ditch but she managed to crawl her way to help.

Hundreds of women are killed every year in Pakistan in the name of "honour", usually related to marriages.

In recent years Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf has defended his government's record on violence against women and says he has done more for women's empowerment than any previous administration.

But human rights groups in Pakistan say the president's claims are not backed by adequate legislation.

Police say they are anxious to speak to Noor's parents who have not appeared at her bedside or inquired about their missing daughter.

An officer investigating the case told the BBC News website: "My experience tells me that they were aware of what was going on."

Noor was shot in both legs, the left arm and the stomach.

Doctors treating her at the Jinnah hospital in Karachi say her condition is stable.

The attack happened nearly three weeks ago but Noor, whose life was in the balance for two weeks, has only recently been able to talk to police about the incident.

She has not been visited by any members of her family.

Noor Jehan told the BBC News website her cousins had tried to kill her after her father had refused to let her be married to one of them.

Looking terrified despite the three armed guards posted outside her hospital room, Noor said her family used to work for a landowner in her native village of Rato Dero in upper Sindh, 300km (187 miles) from Karachi.

She said one of her cousins had asked for her hand in marriage. On being refused, he claimed she had illicit relations with the landowner's son.

Fearing the worst, Noor's family moved to a neighbouring village. Meanwhile, the landowner's son was killed.

Noor's father contacted a friend he knew in Karachi who advised them to come and stay with him.

She said: "He told my cousins that we were going to stay with him because soon as we entered Karachi, our car was stopped by my cousins.

"They beat up my parents and took me away with them in their car."

Noor said she was driven to the suburb of Gadap and shot five times.

She said: "They threw me into a ditch and left thinking I was dead. But I crawled out of the ditch and managed to alert the guard of a nearby house."

Police say they are looking for her parents and the two cousins.

Noor, who can only speak Sindhi, fears she has been abandoned by her family and has no idea what the future holds for her.

 

[waquas_uk]

very sad something needs to be done about it

 

[Daoud]

That is displicable. Unfortunetely you hear about such things every few weeks

 

[Hash]

Curse the scum who did this

 

[Waseem]

Sick!!!!!

 

[Hussain]

this is unjustifiable
may the guilty ones rot in hell

 

[UJ]

This type of stuff really disgusts me!

 

[Raz]

I hope the vile and appalling people, who are responsible for this are brought to justice as soon as possible.

 

[khanpuria]

thats plain disgustin. perves bhai, do summing u tw@

 

[HAFRIDI]

Ah ffs, what the hell is perves gonna do

 

[Uzi]

Pakistani 'honour victim' dies (BBC)

A 14-year-old Pakistani girl who was shot five times and left in a roadside ditch has died following an abdominal infection, doctors say.

Noor Jehan was allegedly shot by relatives after being declared guilty of adultery under an ancient tribal tradition in southern Pakistan.

She managed to crawl for help after being left in the ditch last month.

Officials say the girl, from Karachi, was an "honour killing" victim. No one has claimed her body.

'Complications'

Noor was shot in both legs, the left arm and the stomach before being dumped in the ditch.

Doctors at the government-run Jinnah Hospital in Karachi said initially her condition was stable.

But they say she developed complications in the last few days and succumbed to her injuries.

Last month the teenager regained consciousness in hospital and told the BBC News website her cousins had tried to kill her after her father had refused to let her be married to one of them.

"They beat up my parents and took me away with them in their car," she said.

Noor said she was driven to the suburb of Gadap and shot five times.

"They threw me into a ditch and left thinking I was dead. But I crawled out of the ditch and managed to alert the guard of a nearby house," she said.

Violence record

Noor's body has now been moved to the morgue of a charitable association, the Edhi Foundation, where sources say no one has arrived to claim it.

Police say they have been unable to trace her parents.

The BBC's Aamer Ahmed Khan in Karachi says hundreds of women are killed every year in Pakistan in the name of "honour", usually related to marriages.

In recent years Pakistan's President Pervez Musharraf has defended his government's record on violence against women and says he has done more for women's empowerment than any previous administration.

But human rights groups in Pakistan say the president's claims are not backed by adequate legislation.

 

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

read about her some time ago when she was struggling with her injuries. really, quite sad is all one can say. Dr. Shazia, Muhktaran Mai, and the list only grows.

what Pakistan needs is a Phoolan Devi - someone who will come and give justice to women who have been abandoned by the state and its justice system. in fact, it is inevitable that a Phoolan Devi will come and dispense justice to those who can't get any.

these wadday ghairatmands are the same people who will kill their own sisters in the name of hollow bs like ghairat and honour. yet when they see someone else's sister, they will hoot and do their level best to make even getting out of the house a miserable experience for a female.

it would be nice if General sahib concentrated on these issues rather focusing on the all-important issue of the release of Indian films in Pakistan. General sahib, fear your mortality.

 

[Kashif]

Majority incidents goes unreported but with the increasing number of news channels now, maybe some will get highlighted. The media can help these victims by reporting on it and forcing the public and government to change things.

 

[mani1]

read about her some time ago when she was struggling with her injuries. really, quite sad is all one can say. Dr. Shazia, Muhktaran Mai, and the list only grows.

what Pakistan needs is a Phoolan Devi - someone who will come and give justice to women who have been abandoned by the state and its justice system. in fact, it is inevitable that a Phoolan Devi will come and dispense justice to those who can't get any.

these wadday ghairatmands are the same people who will kill their own sisters in the name of hollow bs like ghairat and honour. yet when they see someone else's sister, they will hoot and do their level best to make even getting out of the house a miserable experience for a female.

it would be nice if General sahib concentrated on these issues rather focusing on the all-important issue of the release of Indian films in Pakistan. General sahib, fear your mortality.

It would be even better if the so called religious partys would deal with this situation instead of visiting India and chatting ****

 

[Mutazalzaluzzaman Tarar]

There is no such thing as equal human rights in Pakistan especially for women. Majority incidents goes unreported but with the increasing number of news channels now, maybe some will get highlighted. The media can help these victims by reporting on it and forcing the public and government to change things.

that's a good point. I always thought that with all the influx of private channels, more genuine, ground level reporting would be done but I must say that I've been thoroughly disappointed with the efforts of Geo and ARY. I thought that they would actually highlight the issues that matter to the people of the city that the channel is based in. but instead Geo will report on the smallest of incidents in Ireland and conveniently ignore stuff that happens in Karachi and Lahore. ARY is the same. just formula news.

PTV has been criticized for years for its khabarnami being a sadarnama or a wazeereazamnama. but what have the private channels done so far apart from ruin our drama? nothing... they have the opportunity to make a difference. the reporters should take a camera, get to the scene of such crimes, get everything on tape, put it on air and then see how the government doesn't take action.

I remember a CP 24 (a TO news channel) correspondent got a city councillor or someone to promise the building of a park for kids in a troubled neighbourhood. some time later, the guy went back to the councillor and played back the video and asked why things hadn't moved along. you should've seen the guy's face. now that's real, effective reporting that safeguard the interests of the average joe.

we need the same in Pakistan. at least in the big cities... highlight the lack of efficiency on part of the officials. how long will they be able to put up with the negative press? eventually they'll have to clean up their act.

 

[HAFRIDI]

Dam i read it when she got injured but now shes gone

Inna Lillahi Wa Inna Ilayhi Rajioun

 

[ShowStopper]

I don't have the words to discribe this Honor killing thing. Why the hell P. Musharraf doesn't do anything about it?

 

[Daoud]

Sad news. I remember reading about her. May Allah give these 'honourable' men what they deserve

 

[Toony™®]

Honour Killings, Family Honour Tribal ritauls etc etc

why? Whats the background and history of it?

Is it related to religion or from what tribe you are from?


whats the solution?


discuss.

 

[Toony™®]

just listening to talk radio (now)some Pakistani girl in yorkshire was sexually abused (5-15 yrs old) by her uncle and her parents refused to acknowledge it and her mother said be quiet as it will bring shame on the family!!

she is 27 yrs old now and ran away when she was 15 !

 

[entralinks]

Don't we talk about this every week Toony? The same old things will be repeated.

 

[Toony™®]

Don't we talk about this every week Toony? The same old things will be repeated.

yes, but we dont go into depth about it...

i would like to know how do situations come about..what is the history of it?! does it have a pagan beginning or is it to do with what tribe you are from? does that mean its a race issue...is it a form of racism?

 

[Toony™®]

an extension of this phenomena is probably religious conversions...

a very recent uproar in the midlands..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMxA3buFxtg&eurl=

 

[Saj]

Well its in the news again because of this :-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6733653.stm

The girl was Kurdish and her boyfriend was Iranian I believe. Whats shocking is that the girl had informed the police about the threats made to her, but the police had claimed she was making it up.

 

[filosofee]

"honour killing" is an oxymoron.

Why do some men live their lives by the honour/actions of their female family members? Should their own actions not be their focus for honour?

Would that females would honourarily rid this planet of dishonourable male family members - just to re-address the imbalance!

Seriously though, this problem, I feel, is about the need some have for control. Some refer to the Qu'ran for justification, a verse that allows a woman to be struck and controlled, if deemed 'out of control'.

Control freaks are not confined to 'Muslim' honour killers. You hear/read about men from other cultures killing women who have managed to escape from their cages.

What is equally disgraceful is the fact that some women e.g. mothers, within the family stand by whilst the men folk extract their honour dishonourably.

 

[Wazeeri]

A friend of mine once tried to explain to me how fornication of a man is not as bad as that of a woman. Apparently the problem is that one of them gets pregnant and the other doesn't.

This rule however doesn't apply to the white girlfriends these guys fornicate with.

 

[Zechariah]

Not related to religion at all but defenitly related to retardism for adopting outside traditions not related to Islam.
Solutions are as follows:

• 
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education

 

[shahzad_1]

very sad and disturbing.
People who do this kinda act should be shot in daylight so there is lesson for others.

 

[shahzad_1]

"honour killing" is an oxymoron.

Why do some men live their lives by the honour/actions of their female family members? Should their own actions not be their focus for honour?

Would that females would honourarily rid this planet of dishonourable male family members - just to re-address the imbalance!

Seriously though, this problem, I feel, is about the need some have for control. Some refer to the Qu'ran for justification, a verse that allows a woman to be struck and controlled, if deemed 'out of control'.

Control freaks are not confined to 'Muslim' honour killers. You hear/read about men from other cultures killing women who have managed to escape from their cages.

What is equally disgraceful is the fact that some women e.g. mothers, within the family stand by whilst the men folk extract their honour dishonourably.

This Honor killing problem is not restricted to muslims.
This is common huge problem of whole Middle East Community.

Didn't you hear about a Yazdii girls was stoned to death by whole village in Iraq two months ago.
Sad part, that accident was captured on video. I try to watch it, but i couldn't, it just boiled my blood.

I think it's all related to pre-Islam Era. In the past Kurash use to burry alive girls and then Islamic teaching brought some humanity.

 

[Wazeeri]

Shahzad

I don't think you have read filosofy's post properly

Control freaks are not confined to 'Muslim' honour killers.

 

[Toony™®]

so is it a pride thing? which itself is haram.

As I showed in the youtube vid above its occurs in all communities.

yes, throughout asia girls were buried .. another stuipid custom where girls are regarded as a burden.

How can you deliver education?...where even that is prioritised for eg, in Pakistan by some parents in rural areas.


Or by

Clan Cheiftains in tribal areas who surpress education to its masses..so they can be ruled under the thumb and 'wisdom' of the chief. So whatever this leader says must be treated as word.



we talk about how low the literacy rate is in Pak..but has got to do with parents, local leaders preventing them. Girl education must be really low outside the major cities and towns.


I remember a article about 18 months ago..where the Government asked Wapda to install power to a village and local clans came to meet to prevent that... just because it was a phenom of the outside world and it would ask questions.

Taliban prevented women getting educated because of the obscure one eyed mullah said so.

 

[Vegitto1]

"honour killing" is an oxymoron.

Why do some men live their lives by the honour/actions of their female family members? Should their own actions not be their focus for honour?

Would that females would honourarily rid this planet of dishonourable male family members - just to re-address the imbalance!

Seriously though, this problem, I feel, is about the need some have for control. Some refer to the Qu'ran for justification, a verse that allows a woman to be struck and controlled, if deemed 'out of control'.

Control freaks are not confined to 'Muslim' honour killers. You hear/read about men from other cultures killing women who have managed to escape from their cages.

What is equally disgraceful is the fact that some women e.g. mothers, within the family stand by whilst the men folk extract their honour dishonourably.

That is a clever way to call Oxy a moron.

 

[Luton Bad Boy]

It's like a cultural issue which we need to get rid of, its sad how culture is seeping into our ways of thinking and not our religion!

 

[pakistani_banda]

Not related to religion at all but defenitly related to retardism for adopting outside traditions not related to Islam.
Solutions are as follows:

• 
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education
  Education

thats the reason, and also those people r crazy in the heads. if i ever get my hands on these people while they r doing the killing or have just done it, that will be the last dayof me being nice. those people will not be left to live liek normal human beings. i will personaly either break every single bone in their body or will or damage them to such an extent that they will never be able to do anything again.

 

[Toony™®]

there are plenty of 'educated' people out there..who do this too.

 

[Geordie Ahmed]

there are plenty of 'educated' people out there..who do this too.

exactly - it isnt restricted to the "villagers" as some would have you believe

I guess these people have a warped sense of honour - i really wonder what goes on in the heads of these people that partake or allow such things to happen.

 

[Luton Bad Boy]

exactly - it isnt restricted to the "villagers" as some would have you believe

I guess these people have a warped sense of honour - i really wonder what goes on in the heads of these people that partake or allow such things to happen.

Is about having a strong mentality or in some cases unstable mentality, none of this villages, education or society comes into it. Its just the way the cookie crumbles for some sad people.

 

[The Blazer]

Well its in the news again because of this :-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6733653.stm

The girl was Kurdish and her boyfriend was Iranian I believe. Whats shocking is that the girl had informed the police about the threats made to her, but the police had claimed she was making it up.

The girl's sister is in the same year as me in school.

 

[shahzad_1]

exactly - it isnt restricted to the "villagers" as some would have you believe

I guess these people have a warped sense of honour - i really wonder what goes on in the heads of these people that partake or allow such things to happen.

Look at this Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBkDdsx8T-4

You would clearly see Iraqi police standing there and watching, but doing nothing. If I was in their position, I would have shoot all those M.....F.....

 

[161]

17-year-old Pak girl's 'honour killing' prompts outcry

17-year-old Pakistani girl's death prompts outcry

ASHRAF KHAN
Originally published 01:04 p.m., October 27, 2008, updated 12:35 p.m., October 27, 2008

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/27/17-year-old-pakistani-girls-death-prompts-outcr-1/


KARACHI, PAKISTAN (AP) - A Pakistani man says his 17-year-old daughter was mauled by dogs and shot to death in front of him over a land dispute disguised as a so-called "honor killing."

Female senators staged a walkout from the federal parliament Monday to press for action on better protections for women after a national newspaper published details of Tasleem Solangi's death.

"How long will women be buried alive and made to face hungry dogs? Women are not given their rights," opposition lawmaker Semi Siddiqui said.

Ibrahim Solangi, 28, has been in custody ever since Taslim's death in March and is awaiting trial on murder charges, said Pir Mohammad Shah, the police chief of the Khairpur Mirs district in southern Pakistan. Taslim's husband was also her first cousin.

Human rights groups say hundreds of women are killed by male relatives every year in Pakistan for alleged infidelity or other perceived slights to the family name, and activists say many more cases go unreported.

In August, a Pakistani lawmaker drew fierce criticism after describing a case in which five women were allegedly buried alive for trying to choose their husbands as the product of "centuries-old traditions" that he would defend.

As in that case, the allegations surrounding the death of Tasleem Solangi remain unproven.

Speaking to reporters in Karachi on Monday, Taslim's father said he was locked up in his home and forced to watch from a window as dogs chased her and then mauled her when she fell down exhausted. She then was shot, he said.

Gulsher Solangi said the killing was the culmination of a land dispute. He said his nephew had beaten Taslim throughout the five months of their marriage to pressure him to hand over his small farm.

Faced with more threats, Gulsher Solangi said he had fled with his wife and another daughter and abandoned his home.

Zameer Hussain Solangi, the girl's father-in-law, claimed Monday that his son confessed to the killing under police torture and that the allegation regarding the dogs was "baseless."

He said a tribal council later declared the dead woman an adulterer and compensated the husband with her jewelry.

The girl's father claimed that the tribal council, chaired by a local chieftain, declared his daughter an adulterer in May to mask the land-grab and the involvement of others.

Shah, the police chief, said he knew nothing of the alleged land-grab or the dogs and promised to investigate further.

Pakistan's government, now led by the liberal party of slain former Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, has vowed to improve women's rights in Pakistan. Former President Pervez Musharraf made similar moves, notably watering down rape laws that made it hard for victims to prove their case, despite opposition from hardline Islamic groups

 

[Mohsin]

I read that the girl was also pregnant, and the father ordered the baby to be thrown into the river

 

[161]

There was a thread posted regarding an Islamic woman's conference in Barcelona which drew some remarks from PP'rs against the Islamic feminist movement .. I hope this story helps educate those individuals on why such a movement is needed.

 

[khanz141]

There was a thread posted regarding an Islamic woman's conference in Barcelona which drew some remarks from PP'rs against the Islamic feminist movement .. I hope this story helps educate those individuals on why such a movement is needed.

I read an article on bbc.com about that: In my opinion it was a really good thing the women of all the islamic country's did. I was against it at first also but once i read what they said about islam and women's role in islam, i really liked what they focused on. All the women said that it wasn't islam that had anything against women but it was rather the different cultures in many muslim countries that didn't give women their full rights. They actually clarified how in Islam everybody is the same doesn't matter what religion, ethnicity or sex anybody is from.

 

[hussain_0216]

Muslims need to discuss the best way to implement islam, I have no issue or problem with a Islamic women's conference if there aim is to clarify islam, understand what islam actually says and oppose cultural practices which oppose islam.

Only when people attempt to change, subvert or innovate upon islam should we make an issue of it...

Whether it be law, relationships, society, womens right, etc we muslims are not implementing islam, and the time has come where we do this and bin all the other rubbish whether it be secularism, communism or democracy...



RE: This article, Pakistan is still a feudal society, it is sickening what these "Wadera" pigs get upto, they deny our people basic rights and oppose there rights to keep them in the dark and stop them from challenging them.

Until we have proper land reform in Pakistan these people will always push about the poor people under there control.

 

[ahsan17]

There was a thread posted regarding an Islamic woman's conference in Barcelona which drew some remarks from PP'rs against the Islamic feminist movement .. I hope this story helps educate those individuals on why such a movement is needed.

I didn't make it clear, but the feminism of 60s is what is needed. These kinds of incidents need to be stopped, and certainly feminism of 60s advocates for that. There's no excuse to kill someone in this manner, least of all a minor. However, modern feminism (in western countries) is manipulation, deception, trashing man, and taking rights away from them.. This is the feminism that I am against, not the one that asks for equal rights and treatment for women.

 

[SalaamPakistan]

I didn't make it clear, but the feminism of 60s is what is needed. These kinds of incidents need to be stopped, and certainly feminism of 60s advocates for that. There's no excuse to kill someone in this manner, least of all a minor. However, modern feminism (in western countries) is manipulation, deception, trashing man, and taking rights away from them.. This is the feminism that I am against, not the one that asks for equal rights and treatment for women.

I understand that, but that doesn't give us right to decide for women. Women shouldn't be force to married if they have objection. Women shouldn't be forced to tell what to do. No matter what, but Islam doesn't allow all these. No Excuse

 

[dblock]

Approaching this from another angle, I hope we have more Pakistani female role models, i.e. more that are in the public eye, for whatever positive reasons,..sports? academia? politics?

Although this honour killing was sickening, it's' difficult, even misleading to see overall role of women from such (hopefully) isolated incidents.

 

[pakistanbest]

reading something like that really pi55es me off, what kind of sick world we live in issed: blood boiling stuff

really disgusting and sad

MAY ALLAH (SWT) HELP HER FAMILY TO GET JUSTICE AND FORGIVE HER SINS AND PLACE HER IN JANNAT
AMEEN

 

[pakistanbest]

I read that the girl was also pregnant, and the father ordered the baby to be thrown into the river

capital punishment must be bought back for a sick animal like that issed:

 

[12thMan]

capital punishment must be bought back for a sick animal like that issed:

Pakistan still has Capital Punishment

Read on BBC early morning today and I might be wrong but it said the autopsy report said no dog bites. I am just informing what was reported

 

[pakistanbest]

Pakistan still has Capital Punishment

Read on BBC early morning today and I might be wrong but it said the autopsy report said no dog bites. I am just informing what was reported

what does that mean, u lost me??

 

[12thMan]

what does that mean, u lost me??

what are you asking? Pakistan is not UK so don't judge Pakistan by UK standards. Same laws or procedure for justice don't apply.

capital punishment must be bought back for a sick animal like that

what does this mean?

The proper thing will be I hope the criminals get prosecuted properly and swiftly. Pakistan has death penalty that you want but it might not have the legal system.

Now this legal system brings me back to my question in another thread. What do these lawyers and judges talk about? They post a dark picture of Pakistan that no on will get justice because Chowdry Iftikar was dissmissed. But this has been going on for decades and these people were in charge. They have not much to show for

 

[ahsan17]

I understand that, but that doesn't give us right to decide for women. Women shouldn't be force to married if they have objection. Women shouldn't be forced to tell what to do. No matter what, but Islam doesn't allow all these. No Excuse

That is absolutely correct, and that is why I am all for 60s feminism. But I will be very surprised that if they are given equal rights, then they will stop campaigning. Because they are women, and they always want more and more. This is highlighted by western feminists, who are still campaigning for women right's, despite having MORE RIGHTS than men.

 

[SalaamPakistan]

That is absolutely correct, and that is why I am all for 60s feminism. But I will be very surprised that if they are given equal rights, then they will stop campaigning. Because they are women, and they always want more and more. This is highlighted by western feminists, who are still campaigning for women right's, despite having MORE RIGHTS than men.

If someone has quoted me, that's Ahsan. It's funny that my too first name is Ahsan . We are practically brother now

 

[shane]

what are you asking? Pakistan is not UK so don't judge Pakistan by UK standards. Same laws or procedure for justice don't apply.
what does this mean?

The proper thing will be I hope the criminals get prosecuted properly and swiftly. Pakistan has death penalty that you want but it might not have the legal system.

Now this legal system brings me back to my question in another thread. What do these lawyers and judges talk about? They post a dark picture of Pakistan that no on will get justice because Chowdry Iftikar was dissmissed. But this has been going on for decades and these people were in charge. They have not much to show for

A devloping country will have a developing legal system - in fact the legal system is usually one of the last things to develop.

The interesting thing about Mr. Chaudhry is that he was never very popular with Pakistani lawyers before he was dismissed by Musharraf. I am reliably informed that they thoroughly disliked litigating in his court. When he was dismissed they protested out of a sense of justice and not as a result of any personal love for him. My point here is that, although still relatively young, Pakistan has a decent legal system with dedicated lawyers. The UK justice system, for all its sofistication, struggles to deal with sensitive cases such as rape and would probably struggle just as much to deal with horrific cases like the above.

The perverted rituals alluded to in the OP's article are not caused by a defective legal system (although it does not help), they are spawned by a lack of education, nothing more.

 

[12thMan]

The perverted rituals alluded to in the OP's article are not caused by a defective legal system (although it does not help), they are spawned by a lack of education, nothing more.

You are probably right but if the legal system was there (what the current lawyers and judges protesting make you want to think was there) the people will be punished and that will stop the evil. Arrest and prosecute the people and the next time people will be careful. Apparently jirga was involved (seemed like it as I read elders in an article). So to me it is not just the murderer but also the jirga who they should go after. Some of these people practicing these things are educated. The ones who suffer might not be and basic education will not remove this. Outlaw this and then if someone does it punishments of people involved including the ones authorizing it is the answer. Even for the women buried alive I read some guy was saying it is our culture and we will deal with it and that guy looked educated. We don't need 100s of such educated people running around but we need punishements for people involved and not just the murdere but the one who also authorizes it because that is when it starts

 

[shane]

You are probably right but if the legal system was there (what the current lawyers and judges protesting make you want to think was there) the people will be punished and that will stop the evil. Arrest and prosecute the people and the next time people will be careful. Apparently jirga was involved (seemed like it as I read elders in an article). So to me it is not just the murderer but also the jirga who they should go after. Some of these people practicing these things are educated. The ones who suffer might not be and basic education will not remove this. Outlaw this and then if someone does it punishments of people involved including the ones authorizing it is the answer. Even for the women buried alive I read some guy was saying it is our culture and we will deal with it and that guy looked educated. We don't need 100s of such educated people running around but we need punishements for people involved and not just the murdere but the one who also authorizes it because that is when it starts

I agree with your points. The law can be an excellent disincentive. However, this is less true in a developing country because the people are poor and you need only bribe a few people to stifle the legal process. Remember that alot of these prople are uneducated and, those who are educated, have been educated to believe that what they are doing is somehow islamic and correct. And then there are some who KNOW that what they are doing is wrong but use Islam, or any other religion, to veil and justify their acts of jealousy and revenge.

You need a range of solutions and the law is certainly one of those. However, I believe that the law is useless if it cannot be policed and I think that in a small village in Pakistan it does not matter what the law says - the fact is that most of these people do not know the law and, even if they did, it is unlikely to deter them.

 

[Poison]

I understand that, but that doesn't give us right to decide for women. Women shouldn't be force to married if they have objection. Women shouldn't be forced to tell what to do. No matter what, but Islam doesn't allow all these. No Excuse

So basically what your saying is that Islam is incorrect?

 

[Pakistani tigers]

Jamal - I think he means that Islam does not state that women are subserviant to men. Indeed, the Prophet, (PHUB), worked for a women who was older then him and who proposed to him and married her. I think it is about respecting women and not neccessarily making them housewifes and/or "property of men".

 

[Poison]

Oh yes, I see now. Thanks, I just misinterpreted.

 

[filosofee]

17-year-old Pakistani girl's death prompts outcry

ASHRAF KHAN
Originally published 01:04 p.m., October 27, 2008, updated 12:35 p.m., October 27, 2008

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/oct/27/17-year-old-pakistani-girls-death-prompts-outcr-1/


Speaking to reporters in Karachi on Monday, Taslim's father said he was locked up in his home and forced to watch from a window as dogs chased her and then mauled her when she fell down exhausted. She then was shot, he said.

Gulsher Solangi said the killing was the culmination of a land dispute. He said his nephew had beaten Taslim throughout the five months of their marriage to pressure him to hand over his small farm.

Faced with more threats, Gulsher Solangi said he had fled with his wife and another daughter and abandoned his home.

Zameer Hussain Solangi, the girl's father-in-law, claimed Monday that his son confessed to the killing under police torture and that the allegation regarding the dogs was "baseless."

He said a tribal council later declared the dead woman an adulterer and compensated the husband with her jewelry.

The girl's father claimed that the tribal council, chaired by a local chieftain, declared his daughter an adulterer in May to mask the land-grab and the involvement of others.

It's truly sickening, too horrendous. For argument's sake, say she were an adulteress, what of the adulterer, the man involved? How is it that we hear/read of women killed for 'misdemeanours' adjudged dishonourable enough to warrant murder? Flippin angry, really angry.

 

[filosofee]

Approaching this from another angle, I hope we have more Pakistani female role models, i.e. more that are in the public eye, for whatever positive reasons,..sports? academia? politics?

.

We don't have to be in the public eye to be seen as role models.