How can Pakistan recover from the humiliating 228-run loss against India?

[Abhilash93]

Not a great team by any means, but a fit and in-form first XI (i.e. Fakhar, Naseem, and Shadab performing well) is among the top 4 sides in the world.

But the confidence jolt from the Asia Cup drubbing is reflected in the defensive squad selections.

Let's just take the examples of the three players I named:

- The natural replacement for an out-of-form Fakhar is Mohd Harris. Instead, you have Abdullah Shafique, who in combination with his clones in the top 5, means Pakistan's totals have a lower ceiling.

- A higher morale unit would've picked an attacking spinner from the get-go. Imagine if Usama (or Abrar) started against the Dutch lineup and had some confidence going into tougher fixtures? Instead, you have a liability like Mohd Nawaz in the XI to cover for Shadab's form with bat and bowl.

- Lastly, Mohd Wasim should've been a starter and another attacking bowler (I know a bunch are injured) should've been picked instead of Hasan Ali to rotate the pace attack.

Anyway, I know I'm speculating a lot, but the PCB might have kicked the can (of fixing the team's now evident problems) down the road if they hadn't agreed to the reserve day.

When was the last time Shadab was 'in form' in ODIs ? His issue runs much deeper than confidence going down after Asia Cup

Abdullah Shafique is doing well and is a good fit for ODIs. Haris is more of a T20 batter and we saw what happened to England's T20 specialists here.

 

[Farabi]

In hindsight, that partnership between Ishan Kishan and Hardik Pandya in the first match of Asia Cup proved to be a turning point for the mindset, confidence level and momentum of both teams involved.

These “momentum” words are distractions and cliches.
A combination of factors including sudden dip in form of key players like Fakhar Rauf Imam and Babar on top of injuries to Shaheen Naseem compounded on top of the and lack of skills, specifically genuine spinners.
The team was simply not good enough to make the Semis with so many holes

 

[Farabi]

When was the last time Shadab was 'in form' in ODIs ? His issue runs much deeper than confidence going down after Asia Cup

Abdullah Shafique is doing well and is a good fit for ODIs. Haris is more of a T20 batter and we saw what happened to England's T20 specialists here.

Both good points.
Shadab and to some extent Rauf are a skill issue. Fakhar, Shaheen and Babar have underperformed.

Abdullah Shafique is better than Haris for ODIs that’s for sure. However, I’d like to see Saim Ayub. He looks like a modern opener

 

[Farabi]

Must say, PCB agreeing to the reserve day at the Asia Cup will be one of the big "what ifs" in cricket.

Pakistan conceded 200+ at 8 RPO and got bundled out for 120ish on the reserve day. Proceeded to crash out of the Asia Cup and simply haven't recovered since (WC record chase notwithstanding).

What if PCB hadn't agreed? The game would've been washed out with India at 147/2 in 24.1 overs. India wouldn't carry as much confidence going forward and Pakistan wouldn't have lost as much confidence as they did.

In all probability, Pakistan would beat SL to set up an India-Pakistan Asia Cup final. Who knows what may have happened with the pressure of a final, and what bearing that might have had on the subsequent WC fixture.

What transpired instead is the stuff of nightmares. I don't think Pakistan would have won the WC, but they would've made the semis at least. But now, a relatively young team (the best players are under 30) will carry deep scars for the foreseeable future.

Even if Pakistan hammered india in Asia cup final by fluke, it wouldn’t have mattered much.
This is a skill and planning issue. You cannot win a World Cup in India with Nawaz and Shadab as your front line spinners. No amount of “momentum” can help you

 

[Devadwal]

What does losing to SA have to do with India? Yes we lost to India, move on.

it seems as if that was your teams biggest achievement and still living in the past. Well if that was your team goal than good for them.

Now if Pakistan tomr losses to England you will still bump this thread? ok, but than when Pakistan wins against NZ, does this thread get bumped? of course not, because that is not related so is the game england not related.

Still if Indians want to take that as celebration than fair enough.

India never won an ICC tournament after the defeat against Sri Lanka in the 2014 World T20. Now each time India gets knocked out from the KO we bring up that Sri Lanka game?

I think you have selective memory . Have you read the threads after India were getting humiliated by Australia in Australia in a test series when we were bowled out for 36 runs? There was thread " how can india recover this humiliation defeat " but we recovered very well by winning the next test match and after that series.
Same Pakistan team were humiliated by india in Asia cup and after that humiliation they have lost to Sri Lanka in same Asia cup and finished at 4 our of 4 team's in super four stages.
Now they have lost four back to back world cup game and likely out of the tournament .
So they have not recovered from that india phaiinti .

 

[Mamoon]

Not a great team by any means, but a fit and in-form first XI (i.e. Fakhar, Naseem, and Shadab performing well) is among the top 4 sides in the world.

This is part of the problem. Overestimation of Pakistan’s capabilities.

If you make fit and in form first XI a criteria for all teams, then Pakistan is not even in the top 5.

(In no particular order):

India
Australia
England
New Zealand
South Africa

They all have superior white ball sides than Pakistan IF every player is fit and firing.

On pure cricketing merit, not a single Pakistani player would even make the World XI B team.

 

[Major]

I think you have selective memory . Have you read the threads after India were getting humiliated by Australia in Australia in a test series when we were bowled out for 36 runs? There was thread " how can india recover this humiliation defeat " but we recovered very well by winning the next test match and after that series.
Same Pakistan team were humiliated by india in Asia cup and after that humiliation they have lost to Sri Lanka in same Asia cup and finished at 4 our of 4 team's in super four stages.
Now they have lost four back to back world cup game and likely out of the tournament .
So they have not recovered from that india phaiinti .

So basically you have made a troll thread as you have admitted here that because someone made a thread on india, you waited three years to make thread on pakistan?

 

[Devadwal]

So basically you have made a troll thread as you have admitted here that because someone made a thread on india, you waited three years to make thread on pakistan?

Not some but Mening .It's not a troll thread but reality as both team were humiliated but one is recover in next match with some style and other is still getting humiliated by Minnows .

 

[cricketjoshila]

In terms of ODI cricket

Pakistan went with 3.5 Batsmen and 1 bowler in this WC.

What was the expectation?

 

[Statpadder Inc]

World Cup records broken by this Pakistan team:

Allowed Afghanistan to chase 274+ against Pakistan (the highest total ever chased against Pakistan in world cups)

Allowed South Africa to win their first ever ICC tournament match against Pakistan in the 21st century

Lost four consecutive matches in a row

Allowed South Africa to also chase their highest ever total in ODI cricket against Pakistan

South Africa defeated Pakistan in the 2013 champions trophy

 

[Mesozoic]

Getting hammered by India twice in a month was always going to have some long term effects on the psyche of Pakistani players. They genuinely looked like they don't want to be on the field against Australia and Afghanistan..

 

[pratiktc]

In hindsight, India showed Pakistan a mirror of their faults in those 2 Asia Cup matches - pathetic spinners, vulnerable seamers with no backup plans and a batting order that just doesn't gel well under pressure.

Those faults have been picked apart and dissected by multiple teams over the course of 6 weeks.

 

[Bhaijaan]

I tried to ignore this for long enough but in the end it has to be said, that defeat completely deflated Pakistan team’s momentum and confidence. They have just not been the same ever since. A huge psychological blow was dished out by Kohli & Rahul followed by our bowlers.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Best way to solve a problem , replace with another problem.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Wins and losses are part of the game. Defeat against India is not something we are currently contemplating. We are more concerned about the future and overhauling our system to become a competitive side in Tests and ODIs.

 

[Devadwal]

Pakistan tour of Australia is coming . let's see Pakistan can recover from that loss as world cup performance was more humiliating than Asia cup loss.

 

[uppercut]

Looks like Pakistan have miraculously recovered without even so much as stepping foot into the Semi-Finals of the WorldCup

 

[Ab Fan]

Pakistan need to schedule a bilateral series vs Zimbabwe where Babar can smash hundreds for fun and Shaheen can pick 20 wickets. That will miraculously help Pakistan fans recover from the humiliating loss.

 

[Devadwal]

Pakistan need to schedule a bilateral series vs Zimbabwe where Babar can smash hundreds for fun and Shaheen can pick 20 wickets. That will miraculously help Pakistan fans recover from the humiliating loss.

A tri series between Pakistan , Zimbabwe and Nepal is best way to recovered from that humiliation as two tournament already gone and they haven't recovered at all. .

 

[uppercut]

Pakistan need to schedule a bilateral series vs Zimbabwe where Babar can smash hundreds for fun and Shaheen can pick 20 wickets. That will miraculously help Pakistan fans recover from the humiliating loss.

Naah ... I think you missed the WC Final. That took care of the "Recovery" ... don't ask me how

 

[BouncerGuy]

pakistan was already not that hopefull to be in the finals of ICC eorld cup so it won't matter much. Yes, losing to india was one of the worst defeats but it is past now and we should move on. It is not like india was not never humiliated. So lets just move on

 

[Devadwal]

pakistan was already not that hopefull to be in the finals of ICC eorld cup so it won't matter much. Yes, losing to india was one of the worst defeats but it is past now and we should move on. It is not like india was not never humiliated. So lets just move on

But they hasn't recovered after that defeat. They were lost to Sri Lanka and finished bottom of the Asia cup point table ( Below Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh) . They had apportunity in world cup where they were coming being No. 1 odi team but they were humiliated again even after losing to Afghanistan .so point is how they will recovered as winning something big is needed like winning a test series away from home , india were humiliated in Australia after 36 all out but they recovered after a week by winning the MCG test .

 

[MenInG]

But they hasn't recovered after that defeat. They were lost to Sri Lanka and finished bottom of the Asia cup point table ( Below Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh) . They had apportunity in world cup where they were coming being No. 1 odi team but they were humiliated again even after losing to Afghanistan .so point is how they will recovered as winning something big is needed like winning a test series away from home , india were humiliated in Australia after 36 all out but they recovered after a week by winning the MCG test .

Ok that is a factual statement.

 

[BouncerGuy]

But they hasn't recovered after that defeat. They were lost to Sri Lanka and finished bottom of the Asia cup point table ( Below Afghanistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh) . They had apportunity in world cup where they were coming being No. 1 odi team but they were humiliated again even after losing to Afghanistan .so point is how they will recovered as winning something big is needed like winning a test series away from home , india were humiliated in Australia after 36 all out but they recovered after a week by winning the MCG test .

Both Pakistan and India teams have different mindsets. Beating Australia in Australia is a big ask for a team like Pakistan because they are afraid as a player. Never play outside of their comfort zone is the mentality these players have.

 

[Devadwal]

Both Pakistan and India teams have different mindsets. Beating Australia in Australia is a big ask for a team like Pakistan because they are afraid as a player. Never play outside of their comfort zone is the mentality these players have.

Nothing is impossible , first Pakistan team and fans need to understand that this Australian team is beatable at home ,if they believed then anything can happen.

 

[charlie007]

Nothing is impossible , first Pakistan team and fans need to understand that this Australian team is beatable at home ,if they believed then anything can happen.

Exactly, sabse pahlay aapne ghabrana nahin hai. Then pray for rain because an Aussie spanking is coming otherwise.

 

[Monday Morning]

I honestly don't think Pakistan have mentally recovered from this game.

They were on a high coming into this game (number 1 ranked I think?), but have lurched from one disaster to another ever since.

Losing to Afghanistan, Ireland, USA, and now battling to save a home test against Bangladesh.

This team is playing much worse than the sum of its parts and some mental conditioning coaching is long overdue.

 

[MenInG]

I honestly don't think Pakistan have mentally recovered from this game.

They were on a high coming into this game (number 1 ranked I think?), but have lurched from one disaster to another ever since.

Losing to Afghanistan, Ireland, USA, and now battling to save a home test against Bangladesh.

This team is playing much worse than the sum of its parts and some mental conditioning coaching is long overdue.

Not sure if we can say that.

Firstly the format is different.

Secondly we have many new players in this side with new management.

You can say that the same problems that afflict us in LOIs seem to hurt us in the red-ball version too.

 

[Devadwal]

So Ramiz Raja think Pakistan cricket downfall started after this humiliation lose .

Pakistan yet to recover

 

[Buffet]

So Ramiz Raja think Pakistan cricket downfall started after this humiliation lose .

Pakistan yet to recover

I suspect he reads PP otherwise a team don't go on a downward slope this way after one big loss. Yah, may be against a specific opposition, but you don't start losing all tests at home.

 

[Devadwal]

I suspect he reads PP otherwise a team don't go on a downward slope this way after one big loss. Yah, may be against a specific opposition, but you don't start losing all tests at home.

You have a point but Pakistan pace attack revolve around Shaheen and Naseem .the way Rohit smashed them they are not same bowler anymore. If you have read the threads prior to that match you may understand,how were Pakistan fan's hyping Pakistan bowling attack as World best pace bowling unit .but soon india burst that bubble twice in a few week's.

 

[Buffet]

You have a point but Pakistan pace attack revolve around Shaheen and Naseem .the way Rohit smashed them they are not same bowler anymore. If you have read the threads prior to that match you may understand,how were Pakistan fan's hyping Pakistan bowling attack as World best pace bowling unit .but soon india burst that bubble twice in a few week's.

Getting smashed badly can surely dent a bowler confidence but at internatioanl level you should be able to recover and perform over time. I remember Broad getting hit for six 6s in an over an yet he had a good test career.

Also, Pakistani pace unit has not been top class for few decades now. Yes, some brilliance here and there, but as a unit it has not been top class. Hyping Pakistani pacers is mostly coping mechanism and mostly due to history. May be getting smashed against India really damage them bad. If that's the case , players don't deserve to play at top level. Mental aspect is a big part at the top level.

 

[Rajdeep]

So Ramiz Raja think Pakistan cricket downfall started after this humiliation lose .

Pakistan yet to recover

Your thread is now vindicated as even Ramiz Raja accepted it

 

[Nikhil_cric]

The lack of talent is the real issue. But I suppose a mid side can't afford these thrashings because their morale is already hanging by a thread.

 

[mominsaigol]

The lack of talent is the real issue. But I suppose a mid side can't afford these thrashings because their morale is already hanging by a thread.

Talent is a myth bro, yes in a few skills it's applicable.

For example you can only be a good singer if God has gifted you with a voice, or a cripple/ someone born blind obviously can't be a wwe wrestler.

However cricket Is a skill and humans are machines that improve, Difference is mentality and understanding the game.

Kohli has spent decades perfecting his body, building a routine and improving flaws. In 2012 he's crap against left handed inswing, Flashforward 2 years later and he's a nightmare to inswing. Something commentators noted. Amd he's also spent years playing across the world in various pitches challenging himself.

He understands his strengths and how to improve his weakness and works on it day by day. Lastly theirs a system of competiton. Kohli would have been booted if he sucked, he hasn't because their is no better no 3.

Pakistani players make excuses 24/7. Babar is fat and unfit now, makes excuses on trying to improve SR, and clearly his net practise isn't doing zilch since he clearly has no clue about his weaknesses and doesn't bother improving, just standing in the nets won't do a damn lol.

Phata wickets are also prepared and theirs no competitpn. In pakistan motivation lies to lick higher up boots so that shadab can play and not be threatened.

Travis on the other hand got dropped multiple times by ca because he wasnt close to finch and warmer. Dude had to fight tooth and nail and has ti improve to avoid being replaced.

Same with Jake fraser, even Warner is being told he ain't getting ct 2025 cause he's washed up lol.

That's the difference aka competiton + Mindset + pitches + mentality in wanting to represent your country.

Kohli, Dhoni, And many others did not fall from the sky. Very few like Sachin and vib were born prodigies, the rest worked their way up.

 

[Devadwal]

Your thread is now vindicated as even Ramiz Raja accepted it

My thread is still has validity as Pakistan yet to recover .

But @Major thread about india after world Cup 2023 lose - india recover by winning the ICC world T20

Another thread about how India recover after 36 humiliation against australia - india recover in a few weeks by winning the test series with net bowler.

Moral of the story - India cricketers or system are mentally so strong that they will recover from any defeats in just few days

 

[mominsaigol]

Talent is a myth bro, yes in a few skills it's applicable.

For example you can only be a good singer if God has gifted you with a voice, or a cripple/ someone born blind obviously can't be a wwe wrestler.

However cricket Is a skill and humans are machines that improve, Difference is mentality and understanding the game.

Kohli has spent decades perfecting his body, building a routine and improving flaws. In 2012 he's crap against left handed inswing, Flashforward 2 years later and he's a nightmare to inswing. Something commentators noted. Amd he's also spent years playing across the world in various pitches challenging himself.

He understands his strengths and how to improve his weakness and works on it day by day. Lastly theirs a system of competiton. Kohli would have been booted if he sucked, he hasn't because their is no better no 3.

Pakistani players make excuses 24/7. Babar is fat and unfit now, makes excuses on trying to improve SR, and clearly his net practise isn't doing zilch since he clearly has no clue about his weaknesses and doesn't bother improving, just standing in the nets won't do a damn lol.

Phata wickets are also prepared and theirs no competitpn. In pakistan motivation lies to lick higher up boots so that shadab can play and not be threatened.

Travis on the other hand got dropped multiple times by ca because he wasnt close to finch and warmer. Dude had to fight tooth and nail and has ti improve to avoid being replaced.

Same with Jake fraser, even Warner is being told he ain't getting ct 2025 cause he's washed up lol.

That's the difference aka competiton + Mindset + pitches + mentality in wanting to represent your country.

Kohli, Dhoni, And many others did not fall from the sky. Very few like Sachin and vib were born prodigies, the rest worked their way up.

@Nikhil_cric

To put it into context, it took Imam ul haq 5 years to finally practise the short ball in the nets?

5 freaking years and icc ranks him as the 4th/5th best odi batsmen in the world. Hahahahahaha.

Where was this practise when you made your debut? And he still flunked wc 2023 on that short ball cause moron didn't realise it takes months to iron out technical flaws. He seriously thought he'd become a short ball goat from one net practise session?

That's what's wrong with Pakistani batters.

 

[Rana]

Same way India recovered from the CT17 and 2019 WC SF humiliation.

These things happen, no need to overthink it.

Legend comment

 

[sweep_shot]

Big loss can happen to any team.

England lost by 229 runs against South Africa in 2023 WC. These things can happen.

 

[JaDed]

rofl never thought ill see this thread content being quoted by Ramiz lol

 

[uppercut]

There was also the 10 Wicket defeat humiliation Pakistan bestowed on Indian in the WT20. The Anne do series where Pakistan beat India in India 2-1 right after India had won the WC in 2011.

As for chicken out, yes agree, India chickened out of playing Pakistan in Pakistan during this Asia Cup.

Pigeon holing is never a good idea, especially when clinging to WC stats.

Yeah ignore the 30+ year old big fat elephant in the Room named Named ODI WC and concentrate on the tiny mouse next to it like bilateral series wins... very sound and logical strategy

 

[mominsaigol]

Big loss can happen to any team.

England lost by 229 runs against South Africa in 2023 WC. These things can happen.

SA and England are considered top teams?

Why is pakistan and Bangladesh comparable?

Yes if you're speaking from the delusion standpoint then I agree. Pakiatani fans think their team is some sort of world beater with Babar azam as king. And the reality is that their a Bangladesh level side.

Last year in 2023 I remember people claiming things like

We're no 1 in the world, 2023 asia cup will be a walk in the park or we shpuld atleast reach semi's or finals or that shaheen, Rauf and naseem are the greatest Pakistani pace attack since the 1990's.

Then India happened and people woke up

 

[uppercut]

Kohli has played more significant knocks in ICC tournaments than Babar can dream of. Yes Kohli has fallen short in ODI knockouts numerous times but that is a battle between him and his own legacy.

Babar wasn’t, isn’t and never will be at his level. He is not fit to lace his boots. Kohli belongs in the upper pantheons of batting greats, right next to Tendulkar, Sir Viv, Lara, Ponting etc. Babar is simply not in that league.

He doesn’t have the talent, the skill, the mentality, the charisma, the presence and the gravitas to be in that league but that is not his problem and not a big deal.

The problem are his deluded fans who try to portray him as someone he is not. Babar never asked to be compared to someone who is simply in a different league.

In the last 12 months, an old Kohli and a prime Babar have played three tournaments (Asia Cup 2022, T20 World Cup 2022, Asia Cup 2023) and Kohli has outclassed Babar.

Even an old, past his best Kohli is superior to a a prime Babar. I’m certain he will also outperform him in the upcoming World Cup but then the excuse will be that Kohli was playing at home, but if Babar is as good as Kohli (or better according to some special edition delusional folks), then prime Babar should be outperforming old Kohli even on Indian pitches.

Old Kohli is better than prime Babar and prime Kohli (2012-2018) was a completely different monster altogether and Pakistani fans are talking absolute nonsense by suggesting that Babar is or ever will be as good as prime Kohli.

Babar has done nothing special for Pakistan team. All this talk of him dealing with pressure and carrying the team by himself means nothing.

Babar has never carried the team on his own. He has rarely won matches for his team from precarious situations.

If you look at Kohli’s top 10 match-winning knocks, you won’t find a single knock that Babar is capable of replicating.

Furthermore, Babar has been a complete non-entity in Pakistan vs India encounter and now it is a very decent sample size.

Kohli has single-handedly defeated Pakistan more times than people can remember. He has like a dozen Man of the Match awards against Pakistan.

Babar hasn’t had 0.1% of the impact Kohli has had in Pakistan vs India encounters.

You will find players like Babar in every nook and corner of India. There is nothing that he does that they are incapable of.

He is just an excellent batsman and India have produced and continue to produce a truckload of excellent batsmen.

The difference between the two countries is the level of competition especially for top-order batsmen.

Players like Shaw can score double-hundreds in England’s domestic cricket and he is not even in contention, and the likes of Dhawan and Jaiswal are better than any ODI openers in Pakistan but they are out of the team.

It is completely futile to compare career trajectories and exposure of Pakistani and Indian batsmen because breaking into the Pakistan team - and establishing yourself - is a thousand times easier than doing the same in India.

If Babar was Indian, he would have played less than half of the matches by this point of his career and he would be far from a household name.

On the other hand, a lot of fringe Indian batsmen who are mocked by Pakistani fans right now would be superstars if they were in Pakistan.

For example, Rizwan wouldn’t play a single game across formats if Pakistan had KL Rahul, Kishan, Pant and Samson as WK options.

Quite remarkable how you make soo many accurate predictions.

A well past his prime Kohli broke the WC runs tally record piling 765 runs compared to 320 by Babar who is in his prime. Infact every single top order batsmen in the Indian team made more runs than Babar which is what you are alluding to in terms of comparison between pak and ind batsmen.

Well done.

 

[sweep_shot]

SA and England are considered top teams?

Why is pakistan and Bangladesh comparable?

Yes if you're speaking from the delusion standpoint then I agree. Pakiatani fans think their team is some sort of world beater with Babar azam as king. And the reality is that their a Bangladesh level side.

Last year in 2023 I remember people claiming things like

We're no 1 in the world, 2023 asia cup will be a walk in the park or we shpuld atleast reach semi's or finals or that shaheen, Rauf and naseem are the greatest Pakistani pace attack since the 1990's.

Then India happened and people woke up

If a 229-run loss can happen to an elite LOI team like England, it can happen to any team. That's my point.

 

[mominsaigol]

If a 229-run loss can happen to an elite LOI team like England, it can happen to any team. That's my point.

Yes but not consistently, and SA is an elite team, their choke nature in world cups let's them down but they went unbeaten.

A 229 run loss from sa is totally different then a 229 run loss by Zimbabwe, Bangladesh etc etc

 

[dravidthewall]

this wasn’t just a win over Pakistan, it was a hammering. Will psychologically damage our great rivals ahead of the World Cup.
So question is how will Pakistan recover from this humiliating loss .

Still they are finding ways to recover. Major surgery needed for that to happen.

 

[FearlessRoar]

Pakistan since this match:

- Knocked out of Super 4 in Asia Cup 2023
- Knocked out from ICC ODI World Cup 2023 at the league stage
- Whitewashed in Test series in Australia
- Lost T20I series vs New Zealand in New Zealand
- Lost a T20I match against Ireland in Ireland
- Lost a match against USA in ICC T20 World Cup 2024
- Lost to Bangladesh in a Test series at home

 

[Devadwal]

This thread still valid exactly after 1 year as pakistan hasn't recovered so far.

A year ago Pakistan fans were flying in the air but that humiliation brings back them to the reality .

 

[DeadlyVenom]

This thread still valid exactly after 1 year as pakistan hasn't recovered so far.

A year ago Pakistan fans were flying in the air but that humiliation brings back them to the reality .

You have proven you are a shrewd analyst of the game for sure.

The wheels really fell off the Pakistan team after this result.

 

[Rajdeep]

It is basically a tale of 2 Asia cups. Lets be honest, India is a better team than Pakistan since 2003 world cup. While India only improved, Pakistan cricket diclined and the gap grew longer. Pakistan is lucky that they dnt get to play test cricket with India otherwise it will be one sided humiliations.

Pakistan won a very good CT Finals in 2017. However the fans and media got very arrogant after that. Then it took Asia cup 2018 to bring them back to earth.

Similarly, they got carried away again after the Dubai T20 WC. The statements Waqar was making about Hindus, Ramiz was talking about million dollar team etc. Also, I must admit that there was a fear of failure among Indian batters after that Dubai game. It shown in Asia Cup 2022 and even in Melbourne T20 WC game. If you remember, I wrote a post here that it is the T20 format that is making Pak team looks better than they actually are. Then came the ODI Asia cup 2023 and rest is history. Even now I believe Pak will compete well with India in a T20 format but absolutely got no chance in ODIs or test cricket (if and when will play).

 

[Rajdeep]

Having said the above, Pakistan also humiliated India in big games when it was least expected.

Humiliation #1 - Aane Do
No one expected us to lose the home series in 2012 and BCCI almost squeezed a short series in between England series when visiting team went back home for Christmas breaks. Everyone thought guaranteed win and boom. We lost the ODI series 2-1 and manage to draw the T20 series.

Humiliation #2 - Champions Trophy 2017
Everyone thought it was a mere formality for Indian team. I was in Oval the day before the game where Pak team was practicing hard and Indian team was in a meeting in hotel room conspiring how to get Kumble out of coach job. They didnt even practice IIRC. That obviously resulted in 180 run humiliation.

Humiliation #3 - Dubai T20
Remember Kohli's tweet? "Everyone is saying big game on sunday? My response - WROGN"
The fact that India can also lose never came to anyone's mind especially since it was a world cup game and India got stellar record against Pak. How wrong were we and Pak dished out 10 wicket phainta.


Ask any Indian fans and deep down they are still upset with these 3 defeats irrespective of how much we beat you guys.

It has been 3 years since that 3rd humiliation.

Question is, when will the 4th one come?

Will it be CT2025 in Lahore?

Will it beT20 WC 2026 in Ahmedabad?

Or no more humiliation in this decade?

#ElClassico

 

[shokz1408]

Pakistan since this match:

- Knocked out of Super 4 in Asia Cup 2023
- Knocked out from ICC ODI World Cup 2023 at the league stage
- Whitewashed in Test series in Australia
- Lost T20I series vs New Zealand in New Zealand
- Lost a T20I match against Ireland in Ireland
- Lost a match against USA in ICC T20 World Cup 2024
- Lost to Bangladesh in a Test series at home

And in that 2023 ODI WC.. Afghans chased 286 for loss of only 2 wickets vs us. So in the last year we have lost to Afghanistan and USA in a World Cup, and been whitewashed by Bangladesh in tests at home. I didn’t think I’d ever see the day.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

It is basically a tale of 2 Asia cups. Lets be honest, India is a better team than Pakistan since 2003 world cup. While India only improved, Pakistan cricket diclined and the gap grew longer. Pakistan is lucky that they dnt get to play test cricket with India otherwise it will be one sided humiliations.

Pakistan won a very good CT Finals in 2017. However the fans and media got very arrogant after that. Then it took Asia cup 2018 to bring them back to earth.

Similarly, they got carried away again after the Dubai T20 WC. The statements Waqar was making about Hindus, Ramiz was talking about million dollar team etc. Also, I must admit that there was a fear of failure among Indian batters after that Dubai game. It shown in Asia Cup 2022 and even in Melbourne T20 WC game. If you remember, I wrote a post here that it is the T20 format that is making Pak team looks better than they actually are. Then came the ODI Asia cup 2023 and rest is history. Even now I believe Pak will compete well with India in a T20 format but absolutely got no chance in ODIs or test cricket (if and when will play).

Better team since mid 2005 ish. Even under Woolmer and Inzi , they were initially a better side than we were.

Only once that Dhoni-Yuvraj bedded in did we become a better ODI side than PAK.

 

[Rajdeep]

Better team since mid 2005 ish. Even under Woolmer and Inzi , they were initially a better side than we were.

Only once that Dhoni-Yuvraj bedded in did we become a better ODI side than PAK.

Nope. India edged past Pakistan after 2003 world cup. After that game Wasim, Waqar and Anwar retired and India had influx of young upcoming cricketers like Sehwag, Yuvraj, Zaheer etc. If you are looking for a specific moment, when Zaheer Khan's bouncer floored Rashid Latif...it was that very moment tides turned. Till then also Pakistan was going good with old school Anwar century which was bringing back those haunted Sharjah memories.

Sure Pakistan was a top team even after that but in most games India started favourites since then. Compare our tour of Pakistan in 2004 to the one in 1997. The entire psyche and body language was different. Pakistan unfortunately still not up from that Zaheer Khan bouncer.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Nope. India edged past Pakistan after 2003 world cup. After that game Wasim, Waqar and Anwar retired and India had influx of young upcoming cricketers like Sehwag, Yuvraj, Zaheer etc. If you are looking for a specific moment, when Zaheer Khan's bouncer floored Rashid Latif...it was that very moment tides turned. Till then also Pakistan was going good with old school Anwar century which was bringing back those haunted Sharjah memories.

Sure Pakistan was a top team even after that but in most games India started favourites since then. Compare our tour of Pakistan in 2004 to the one in 1997. The entire psyche and body language was different. Pakistan unfortunately still not up from that Zaheer Khan bouncer.

Favourites or not, they beat us more often even after 2003 World Cup for the next 16 matches also with a 11-5 record.

Only from 2006 bilateral series we started beating them consistently

 

[kron]

Better team since mid 2005 ish. Even under Woolmer and Inzi , they were initially a better side than we were.

Only once that Dhoni-Yuvraj bedded in did we become a better ODI side than PAK.

Meaningless. Bilaterals is pointless. All key games they mostly lost to India.

 

[Devadwal]

We defeated Pakistan in pakistan in 2004 series.( both ODI and test series)

Favourites or not, they beat us more often even after 2003 World Cup for the next 16 matches also with a 11-5 record.

Only from 2006 bilateral series we started beating them consistently

 

[Nikhil_cric]

We defeated Pakistan in pakistan in 2004 series.( both ODI and test series)

Then lost Asia Cup match , match in Holland , CT 2004 match , BCCI Jubilee match, home series 2005 (4-2) and first match of 2006 series in Peshawar.

They were still beating us a lot.

 

[Mockingbird]

A year to date when we took the ‘no.1’ team in the world to the cleaners. I remember the Pakistani media hyping the team to the moon before the match, don’t think they will ever recover the blow to their egos after the spanking their bowlers got that day.

 

[dubeTheGoat]

Having said the above, Pakistan also humiliated India in big games when it was least expected.

Humiliation #1 - Aane Do
No one expected us to lose the home series in 2012 and BCCI almost squeezed a short series in between England series when visiting team went back home for Christmas breaks. Everyone thought guaranteed win and boom. We lost the ODI series 2-1 and manage to draw the T20 series.

Humiliation #2 - Champions Trophy 2017
Everyone thought it was a mere formality for Indian team. I was in Oval the day before the game where Pak team was practicing hard and Indian team was in a meeting in hotel room conspiring how to get Kumble out of coach job. They didnt even practice IIRC. That obviously resulted in 180 run humiliation.

Humiliation #3 - Dubai T20
Remember Kohli's tweet? "Everyone is saying big game on sunday? My response - WROGN"
The fact that India can also lose never came to anyone's mind especially since it was a world cup game and India got stellar record against Pak. How wrong were we and Pak dished out 10 wicket phainta.


Ask any Indian fans and deep down they are still upset with these 3 defeats irrespective of how much we beat you guys.

It has been 3 years since that 3rd humiliation.

Question is, when will the 4th one come?

Will it be CT2025 in Lahore?

Will it beT20 WC 2026 in Ahmedabad?

Or no more humiliation in this decade?

#ElClassico

CT 2017 was the worst.. it started the trend of us choking in important games. We lost to Sri Lanka,WI in t20 wc and aus in odi wc but they were far superior teams.

It thought we had it in the bag when we won toss... but how bad it was

 

[Mesozoic]

I don't think they have recovered yet.


They honestly believed that they were robbed off a win in Pallekele a game earlier. As if it was so easy to chase down 270 against Bumrah, Siraj, Kuldeep and Pandya.

And then reality dawned on them pretty quickly ont this day.

 

[Mesozoic]

I don't think even Babar Azam ever recovered from that booming inswinger from Pandya that day. Poor guy has never looked the same again after his stumps were left in a pile.

 

[NishanKonar]

Pakistan cricket fraternity created 1 giant bubble of delusions after that 2021 T20 win over Win. Babar Azam was the best " all format batsman:. Shaheen Shah was forever in " They cant play him" mode. Rizwan was the best keeper batter

The bubble came dangerously close to bursting during the 2022 T20 WC but they got saved by miraculous upset of South Africa by Holland and bcoz they made it to the final - the bubble got more hot air. Ramiz Raja even organised a party to cleebrate the " runners up " place bcoz they did better than " billlion dollar economy " India

But like in stock markets & real estate - all bubbles burst eventually with painful consequences - that's what happened during this match. Pakistan cricket's Lehmann Brother moment

 

[NishanKonar]

CT 2017 was the worst.. it started the trend of us choking in important games. We lost to Sri Lanka,WI in t20 wc and aus in odi wc but they were far superior teams.

It thought we had it in the bag when we won toss... but how bad it was

For me the 2014 T20 WC defeat was actually more shocking. We were beating Sri Lanka for fun in every match during that period & somehow we lost the final so tamely. That too with 3 overs to spare. India simply did not turn up for that game. Never understood what happened there . We beat Pakistan , West Indies, Australia & South Africa very easily enroute to the final but went down without a fight in the final

 

[dravidthewall]

For me the 2014 T20 WC defeat was actually more shocking. We were beating Sri Lanka for fun in every match during that period & somehow we lost the final so tamely. That too with 3 overs to spare. India simply did not turn up for that game. Never understood what happened there . We beat Pakistan , West Indies, Australia & South Africa very easily enroute to the final but went down without a fight in the final

Yuvi's shocking under pressure innings put every team including kohli put on pressure.

 

[Farabi]

Then lost Asia Cup match , match in Holland , CT 2004 match , BCCI Jubilee match, home series 2005 (4-2) and first match of 2006 series in Peshawar.

They were still beating us a lot.

Tides didn’t turn overnight.

But, definitely, when India came to Pakistan in 2004, it was the first time I was not “confident” that Pakistan will beat India.
In 2003 WC match, I was shocked when India chased down that 270+ score. During the break, my friends were already on the street celebrating as if we had won.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Tides didn’t turn overnight.

But, definitely, when India came to Pakistan in 2004, it was the first time I was not “confident” that Pakistan will beat India.,
In 2003 WC match, I was shocked when India chased down that 270+ score. During the break, my friends were already on the street celebrating as if we had won.

Yeah. That aura of that PAK side was,for me at least, somewhat shattered after that chase.

 

[Farabi]

Pakistan cricket fraternity created 1 giant bubble of delusions after that 2021 T20 win over Win. Babar Azam was the best " all format batsman:. Shaheen Shah was forever in " They cant play him" mode. Rizwan was the best keeper batter

The bubble came dangerously close to bursting during the 2022 T20 WC but they got saved by miraculous upset of South Africa by Holland and bcoz they made it to the final - the bubble got more hot air. Ramiz Raja even organised a party to cleebrate the " runners up " place bcoz they did better than " billlion dollar economy " India

But like in stock markets & real estate - all bubbles burst eventually with painful consequences - that's what happened during this match. Pakistan cricket's Lehmann Brother moment

I don’t agree it was a bubble. Pakistan cricket has been in decline since 2021. This group of players peaked in 2021, but since then, the PCB has been in complete disarray, even by its own standards. Constant changes in management and the squad have dragged the team down.

Player fitness has also deteriorated since Misbah’s departure, with many players noticeably gaining weight. Shaheen's injury was a major turning point, but so was the dip in form of key players like Babar and Imam.

Muhammad Wasim’s tenure saw the injection of “power-hitters” in the middle order in the form of Asif Ali, Haider Ali, and many others. Needless to say but Pakistan would have been better off replacing Hafeez and Malik with proven domestic performers.

This same team can bounce back and be competitive with consistent leadership that prioritizes fitness and helps key players regain form.

 

[dubeTheGoat]

For me the 2014 T20 WC defeat was actually more shocking. We were beating Sri Lanka for fun in every match during that period & somehow we lost the final so tamely. That too with 3 overs to spare. India simply did not turn up for that game. Never understood what happened there . We beat Pakistan , West Indies, Australia & South Africa very easily enroute to the final but went down without a fight in the final

I remember watching that live. I was so shocked at Yuvraj's performance. Single-handedly killed the momentum. One of the main issues were the wide Yorkers of Malinga and Kulasekara which weren't employed before. That prevented us from scoring in death but even then, considering the start we got, we should have atleast scored 160.

 

[BouncerGuy]

The thread is about Pakistan's defeat against India. I'm not sure why people are discussing India's defeat?

Still Cannot forget those defeats in the t20 knockout stages ???

 

[Bhaijaan]

Pakistanis don’t understand why Bharatiyas of modern era treat them disrespectfully.

You have to understand that majority of Bharatiya fans on online forums started watching cricket in 2000s and since then Bharat has been much superior whereas Pakistan has been mediocre. They have no memories of the 1990s.

 

[Devadwal]

Only way pakistan can recovered from that humiliation by winning the Champion Trophy at home .

Can they recovered or further humiliation waiting for them?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Only way pakistan can recovered from that humiliation by winning the Champion Trophy at home .

Can they recovered or further humiliation waiting for them?

I don't think this batch of players can recover and we won't be winning the CT either.

We need a good long recovery period.

 

[Devadwal]

I don't think this batch of players can recover and we won't be winning the CT either.

We need a good long recovery period.

Honestly champion trophy format is best suitable for pakistan to win another ICC trophy like last time.

They need to win just 2 game's to reach in the semifinals then anything can happen .

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Honestly champion trophy format is best suitable for pakistan to win another ICC trophy like last time.

They need to win just 2 game's to reach in the semifinals then anything can happen .

Let them prepare the stadiums first

 

[Mockingbird]

Pakistanis don’t understand why Bharatiyas of modern era treat them disrespectfully.

You have to understand that majority of Bharatiya fans on online forums started watching cricket in 2000s and since then Bharat has been much superior whereas Pakistan has been mediocre. They have no memories of the 1990s.

Yeah, we don’t need to be stuck in a time warp.

 

[Mp812]

this wasn’t just a win over Pakistan, it was a hammering. Will psychologically damage our great rivals ahead of the World Cup.
So question is how will Pakistan recover from this humiliating loss .

By achieving their first ODI world cup victory, in an India Pakistan game, and breaking the streak, in 2050 ODI World cup.

 

[Devadwal]

Pakistan even after scoring 556 in first inning of 1st test against England at Multan is receiving the Epic phainta.

Now from this position what will be think when they play next test.

I don't know how they will feels .

 

[Hellion]

Pakistan even after scoring 556 in first inning of 1st test against England at Multan is receiving the Epic phainta.

Now from this position what will be think when they play next test.

I don't know how they will feels .

That has nothing to do with Asia Cup. PAK were getting humiliated in Tests well before Asia Cup

 

[Bhaijaan]

How did Pakistan decline so dramatically after the Asia Cup.