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How does the present-day Jasprit Bumrah compare with the likes of Wasim Akram and Waqar Younis?

kron said:
Wrong. Wasim akram is GREATER than bumrah only due to longevity

Bumrah is BETTER than wasim. Better bowler.

Wasim legacy is greater.

You can be a greater bowler and still be an inferior player compared to the better individual.

It's like Shane bond. Shane bond is better than waqar and akthar and kapil dev.

But he doesn't have a great legacy cause his career was cut short.
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That’s true. Quality wise, Bumrah is right up there with Marshall and McGrath and I am not hyping but stating facts.

What he lacks is durability. Depending on how much he lacks that till the end of his career will decide his standing in Tests.
 
For anyone doubting his quality, here are away stats vs SENAIPS. I have included Pakistan and Sri Lanka also so no stats manipulating now. Bumrah averages 9 in Windies so that is ignored. Of course everyone cashed in WI.


stats.espncricinfo.com

Bowling records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com

stats.espncricinfo.com stats.espncricinfo.com

Away averages:-

Bumrah 21
Cummins 26
Rabada 29
Anderson 30
Broad 30
Steyn 28
Johnson 32
Starc 31
Shami 31
Boult 30
Amir 32
Hazelwood 29
Philander 27( with worst SR of all)

The gulf between Bumrah and rest is simply massive. On quality, he is miles ahead.
 
Also, let’s not overrate Cummins with his away average of 26 just because it is better than rest because he himself is skipping games in India and Sri Lanka as part of his workload management. A 35 year old Starc playing all games but Cummins is happy to rest at home and skip SL tour.
 
Ab Fan said:
That’s true. Quality wise, Bumrah is right up there with Marshall and McGrath and I am not hyping but stating facts.

What he lacks is durability. Depending on how much he lacks that till the end of his career will decide his standing in Tests.
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A better statement will be Bumrah lacks durability against bottom/minnow teams of his era.

If you take W/L during players career and see top 4 opposition during entire career.

-----------------------

Bumrah has played 39 tests against top 4 oppositions : 171 wickets - avg of 21.2 and SR 45

Bumrah has played 6 tests against bottom/minnow teams: 34 wickets - Avg 10 & SR 23

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Wasim has 46 tests against top 4 oppositions : 187 wickets - avg of 24.7 and SR 55


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Bumrah is never going to play 50-60 tests against minnows/bottom teams. Yah, he is averaging 10 for that bucket so more tests there means his career average can go down, but I doubt he will play many games against SL/BD/Zim/WI and he is not going to get games against Pakistan.

A high chance that Bumrah will play 50-60 tests against top 4 oppositions with 230-240 test wickets.
 
Buffet said:
A better statement will be Bumrah lacks durability against bottom/minnow teams of his era.

If you take W/L during players career and see top 4 opposition during entire career.

-----------------------

Bumrah has played 39 tests against top 4 oppositions : 171 wickets - avg of 21.2 and SR 45

Bumrah has played 6 tests against bottom/minnow teams: 34 wickets - Avg 10 & SR 23

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Wasim has 46 tests against top 4 oppositions : 187 wickets - avg of 24.7 and SR 55


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Bumrah is never going to play 50-60 tests against minnows/bottom teams. Yah, he is averaging 10 for that bucket so more tests there means his career average can go down, but I doubt he will play many games against SL/BD/Zim/WI and he is not going to get games against Pakistan.

A high chance that Bumrah will play 50-60 tests against top 4 oppositions with 230-240 test wickets.
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it means Bhumrah cannot be rated highly as he needs to prove himself also against SL/BD/Zim/WI and not just HTB hacks like Travis Head.
 
Buffet said:
A better statement will be Bumrah lacks durability against bottom/minnow teams of his era.

If you take W/L during players career and see top 4 opposition during entire career.

-----------------------

Bumrah has played 39 tests against top 4 oppositions : 171 wickets - avg of 21.2 and SR 45

Bumrah has played 6 tests against bottom/minnow teams: 34 wickets - Avg 10 & SR 23

----------------------

Wasim has 46 tests against top 4 oppositions : 187 wickets - avg of 24.7 and SR 55


----------------------

Bumrah is never going to play 50-60 tests against minnows/bottom teams. Yah, he is averaging 10 for that bucket so more tests there means his career average can go down, but I doubt he will play many games against SL/BD/Zim/WI and he is not going to get games against Pakistan.

A high chance that Bumrah will play 50-60 tests against top 4 oppositions with 230-240 test wickets.
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Durability is about being fit and ready to bowl long spells or be available for a full fledged test series.

The difference in Bumrah not being available for Sydney Test or in a parallel world him being extremely durable and available for that test would be a sample of just 1 game but this could have well turned out to be a series decider.

Imagine if instead of Bumrah, you had Marshall, Hadlee or Ambrose or Wasim at their prime. Not just Australia let’s say any nation. These bowlers would have been fully available for all 5 tests and at their prime would have made massive influence especially in these test matches which are fast bowling shootouts like the one we had in Sydney.

During 2020 Australia tour also, Bumrah got a niggle by final test. India were lucky that they produced one of the greatest performance in that test but otherwise a less motivated team would have probably lost that game and series too by 2-1.
 
Bumrah played a big chunk of his matches in Aus and SA,which has became more bowling friendly than ever.Like after 2018 in Aus batting average from 1-8 position was 32.2 but in 90s it was 34.2.Also in SA during 90s it was 30 but it became 27.8 after 2018
 
Fanboy375 said:
Bumrah played a big chunk of his matches in Aus and SA,which has became more bowling friendly than ever.Like after 2018 in Aus batting average from 1-8 position was 32.2 but in 90s it was 34.2.Also in SA during 90s it was 30 but it became 27.8 after 2018
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All visiting bowlers are going to bowl to Aus and SA batting line up in their home conditions. There is very little evidence to suggest that visiting bowlers found it easier to pick wickets in Aus and SA in the last 10 years vs 10 years in 90s.

Aus batting at home in 10 years in 90s: 37.27
Aus batting at home in the last 10 years: 41 [ Bumrah avg 17 runs per wickets ]

SA batting in Aus in 10 years in 90s: 33.26
SA batting in SA in the last 10 years: 32.24 [ Bumrah avg in SA 20 runs per wickets ]


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I took 10 year to keep periods apple to apple. Since Bumrah debuted in 2018, it goes down to avg of 37 for Aus batting in Aus but even that is not lower than avg in 90s. For SA , it goes down to 29 since 2018. That's surely lower than avg in 90s.

I think when all said and done, Bumrah picking 100 plus wickets in Aus/SA at 18 per piece is pretty much due to him being in Marshall's class. With lots of ifs and buts, we can make a case of his avg being around 20-21 for those 100 wickets in some other era, but it does not change the big picture. His output in Aus/SA is in different class than most visiting bowlers in history bar top 2-3 pacers in history. Bumrah is in Marshall's class without having Mashall like career so far. Can't be said the same for too many bowlers.
 
Fanboy375 said:
Bumrah played a big chunk of his matches in Aus and SA,which has became more bowling friendly than ever.Like after 2018 in Aus batting average from 1-8 position was 32.2 but in 90s it was 34.2.Also in SA during 90s it was 30 but it became 27.8 after 2018
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Tails were walkign wickets in 90s. It's always better to take entire batting line up avg and not just 1-8. After all, bowler's avg is comes from wickets against top order and tail both. And against top order, Bumrah blows most bowlers, including Wasim, out of water. Some one did calculations for all top order wickets for various bowlers. Wasim's avg against top order is near 30 and Bumrah was near 20. Wasim's against tail was near 10 and Bumrah was near 12. Difference was - Wasim having more tail wickets and that helped him to keep his avg low.

Anyway, another way to look at,

All bowlers in history playing away outside Asia

1738938666300.png


Only two Asians appear here. Not unexpected because it's not familair conditions for Asian bowlers. But you wouldn't expect an Asian bowler to appear near top in this list and that too with 158 wickets. That's 4th highest wickwt's tally in this list. Another 40 odd wickets and we are talkign 200 plus away wickets outside Asia and that's more than any other pacer has taken.

Bumrah could have averaged 1-2 runs higher in different era but he will be still near the top here. Bumrah does not need to do anything as far as outside Asia record goes. He is just too far ahead. In Asia, touring Pakistan is out of picture for him. So it leaves touring SL. Not sure how many tests India will play in SL and if Bumrah will feature in those tests. So that leaves playing more series at home. Already 40-50 wickts at avg of 17 at home. He should try to get to 100 wickets at home. That's the one place he should increase his number of tests. Everything else is just noise.

I don't think it's easy to do it, but if he does then good for him and good for cricket. We were blessed to see greats like Marshall, Hadlee and McGrath. We are watching another great here in the same class. Unless he gets to 300 plus wickets, it's hard to make a case for top 5, but he will be in my top 10 pacers for sure. He has the same quality as top 5 wihout having longevity of pacers in the top 5 right now. It will be a great outcome for test cricket if we can have 5 new pacers in top 5 in the next 50 years.
 
Jasprit Bumrah Undergoes Scans At NCA In Bengaluru, Update On Fitness By Saturday: Report

For the next 24 hours, India captain Rohit Sharma and head coach Gautam Gambhir will be anxiously awaiting the results of scans star pacer Jasprit Bumrah underwent at the National Cricket Academy in Bengaluru. Bumrah suffered back spasms during the final Test of India’s Australia tour last month following which he’s been out of action.

According to The Times of India, an update on Bumrah’s fitness will be out in the next 24 hours following which a discussion regarding the future course of action will be held with the BCCI. The scans will also reportedly be shared with Dr Rowan Schouten, an orthopedic surgeon hailing from New Zealand who operated on the Indian pace spearhead in 2023 after he suffered a back injury.


www.news18.com

Jasprit Bumrah Undergoes Scans At NCA In Bengaluru, Update On Fitness By Saturday: Report - News18

Jasprit Bumrah suffered from back spasms at the beginning of the year raising doubts over his availability for the Champions Trophy.
www.news18.com www.news18.com
 
Buffet said:
All visiting bowlers are going to bowl to Aus and SA batting line up in their home conditions. There is very little evidence to suggest that visiting bowlers found it easier to pick wickets in Aus and SA in the last 10 years vs 10 years in 90s.

Aus batting at home in 10 years in 90s: 37.27
Aus batting at home in the last 10 years: 41 [ Bumrah avg 17 runs per wickets ]

SA batting in Aus in 10 years in 90s: 33.26
SA batting in SA in the last 10 years: 32.24 [ Bumrah avg in SA 20 runs per wickets ]


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I took 10 year to keep periods apple to apple. Since Bumrah debuted in 2018, it goes down to avg of 37 for Aus batting in Aus but even that is not lower than avg in 90s. For SA , it goes down to 29 since 2018. That's surely lower than avg in 90s.

I think when all said and done, Bumrah picking 100 plus wickets in Aus/SA at 18 per piece is pretty much due to him being in Marshall's class. With lots of ifs and buts, we can make a case of his avg being around 20-21 for those 100 wickets in some other era, but it does not change the big picture. His output in Aus/SA is in different class than most visiting bowlers in history bar top 2-3 pacers in history. Bumrah is in Marshall's class without having Mashall like career so far. Can't be said the same for too many bowlers.
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What are statistics if you remove bumrah the bowler in that time period ?
 
Bumrah is the key to India's success in the upcoming champions trophy. If he is out due to injury, India's chances also drop significantly.
 
BouncerGuy said:
Bumrah is the key to India's success in the upcoming champions trophy. If he is out due to injury, India's chances also drop significantly.
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He is absolutely not needed for this pajama champions trophy, rest him for another 2 months and get him ready for the test series coming up.

Who cares if India loses this tournament, it holds very little value...
 
Bumrah needs at least 300 wickets at under 20 to 20 avg before he retires to be in the category of an atg test bowler. If he cant get to the above by the time he retires he should only be considered a very good bowler and misses out on atg status...
 
Romali_rotti said:
He is absolutely not needed for this pajama champions trophy, rest him for another 2 months and get him ready for the test series coming up.

Who cares if India loses this tournament, it holds very little value...
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You mean to say grapes are sour???
 
Advaith said:
What are statistics if you remove bumrah the bowler in that time period ?
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Last 10 years removing India as opposition,

Aus batting at home: 47 runs per wickets
SA batting at home : 34 runs per wickets
 
Hitman said:
When has CT held great prestige and honor? So much that the ICC were seriously contemplating scrapping it multiple times in the past including after Pakistan won it in 2017.

CT is good entertainment, that's it.
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I don't really get the point of CT tbf.

We have a t20 world cup( Fair cause its t20)

Wtc (A flawed system but atleast it's something and gives test formats more credibility)

Odi world cup (The og)

Why do we need another mini odi world cup in CT? One which features a very flawed system of only 5 matches?

Atleast for WC, Every team faces each other once hence the system is reasonably fair. For t20 even though it isn't round Robin, t20 is a short format hence people don't mind it as entertainment.

What's the point of CT? Come to think of it, I've actually forgotten that India won in 2013, aus won in 2009 etc etc 🤣🤣.

Whereas I remember all WC and T20 wc winners by heart.
 
mominsaigol said:
I don't really get the point of CT tbf.

We have a t20 world cup( Fair cause its t20)

Wtc (A flawed system but atleast it's something and gives test formats more credibility)

Odi world cup (The og)

Why do we need another mini odi world cup in CT? One which features a very flawed system of only 5 matches?

Atleast for WC, Every team faces each other once hence the system is reasonably fair. For t20 even though it isn't round Robin, t20 is a short format hence people don't mind it as entertainment.

What's the point of CT? Come to think of it, I've actually forgotten that India won in 2013, aus won in 2009 etc etc 🤣🤣.

Whereas I remember all WC and T20 wc winners by heart.
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ODI WC and WTC - The 2 trophies worth their weight in absolute gold.

T20 WC is a joke! CT is an even bigger joke!

P.S. I didn't even feel a thing when my team won the last T20 WC.
 
Hitman said:
ODI WC and WTC - The 2 trophies worth their weight in absolute gold.

T20 WC is a joke! CT is an even bigger joke!

P.S. I didn't even feel a thing when my team won the last T20 WC.
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I think t20 wc can be improved if they fix the structure of the format. Otherwise I believe a t20 world cup should occur.

My issue with CT is that I don't get the point of 2 odi tournaments. Nor do I get the point of only 5 matches? 3 or 4 for the teams that'll get eliminated.
 
mominsaigol said:
I think t20 wc can be improved if they fix the structure of the format. Otherwise I believe a t20 world cup should occur.

My issue with CT is that I don't get the point of 2 odi tournaments. Nor do I get the point of only 5 matches? 3 or 4 for the teams that'll get eliminated.
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T20 WC should be held every 4 years, just like the ODI WC for it be taken more seriously than now.
 
Australia 🇦🇺 and England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Combined : 1) Jasprit Bumrah : 101 Wickets @20.49 2) Imran Khan : 92 Wickets @26.53 3) Wasim Akram : 89 Wickets @26.84 - Bumrah is a Legend
 
Romali_rotti said:
I don't care about no champions trophy. If anything I hope India gets slammed as chicken kohli and Rohit Korma will be playing.

My grapes will sour like crazy if India wins the champions trophy with Kohli & Korma

Save Bumrah for the test series...
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LOL... that is fine... Rohit and kohli are gonna play CT as we all know...

But the real question is Bumrah
 
Wasim Akram 🇵🇰- 50 Wickets @17.18 in New Zealand 🇳🇿 (Most Lethal Bowler in New Zealand) - New Zealand has lot of 💨 wind and Wasim was known for swinging ball in the air - so both these factors makes him too dangerous in New Zealand, Bumrah needs to improve his record in New Zealand.
 
Never taken the Champions Trophy seriously. Wont take it seriously this time too.
 
To be honest considering surface and two new balls used , batters with more attacking mindset etc , ignoring Bumrah is not fair. He is right up there with the very best.
 
Definitely better than waqar already, needs to play longer to match akram but his highest highs are already as great as akram's
 
Sachin fan said:
Wait, now all of a sudden average doesn't matter and it's innings which matter?

Despite bumrah bowling lesser overs/balls and having better average and strike rate?

Sure.
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And no chance for Pepsi caps, free tailender wickets too.every one after 5 is a tailendet in those days. Aus used to declare after 6/7 wickets against wi pace battery.
 
He has done enough to get tagged as ATG now, even if he may not play a lot of tests from here. That avg under 20 is insane and his wickets sample size in Aus, SA and Eng is already good enough. He also has a great home series vs England.

India have now produced 1 ATG fast bowler and that is Bumrah.
 
Sachin fan said:
Aren't we discussing an Indian bowler?
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I was talking to bald Eagle and not you 😒 😐 😑 😕 🙄 🙃.

Bumrah and wasim are = for me. The rest like Marshall, Mcgrath etc etc are leagues > him.

But their is no point to discuss with fan boys, I have discussed this topic to death.
 
mominsaigol said:
I was talking to bald Eagle and not you 😒 😐 😑 😕 🙄 🙃.

Bumrah and wasim are = for me. The rest like Marshall, Mcgrath etc etc are leagues > him.

But their is no point to discuss with fan boys, I have discussed this topic to death.
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Let me tell you about how social media posts work. What you post here is visible to everyone and anyone can reply.

For private one on ones you have DMs.

Capiche?
 
Sachin fan said:
Let me tell you about how social media posts work. What you post here is visible to everyone and anyone can reply.

For private one on ones you have DMs.

Capiche?
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Lol have I stopped you from replying? In the same way I havent stopped you from not replying and ghosting, which is something you are extremely extremely good at.

Want me to share examples?
 
Waqar is frankly level below both Wasim and Bumrah.

Bumrah in white ball cricket is a deadlier bowler than Wasim. The delta between Bumrah and his era peers is far greater than the delta between Wasim and his era peers. Bumrah's command over new ball movement and ability to get tail in an era where rules are stacked against bowlers is unparalleled.

Bumrah in red ball cricket took like duck to water and has basically had an entire career so far peak of 6 yrs. This is pretty much equal to best 7 year peak Wasim who took about 4-5 yrs to hit his straps as an ATG although still giving good quality output in colt years.

One thing I will give Wasim props for is that even outside peak his peak and despite groin injury impact and diabetes he gave Pak a decent 3 year output at very good level between 34-38 age which is unexpected for a fast bowler. Maybe only Hadlee, Anderson, Walsh from ATGs have been able to sustain such quality late career output.

All in all Bumrah overall surpasses Wasim for me. And it is a mark of respect from one great to another that Wasim also publicly acknowledged that Bumrah's control and ability was more than his.
 
Entire history of cricket:

Pacers with 150 away wickets - sub 25 Avg against non-minnows

1750618579115.png

When all said and done ,I suspect , the top 5 here will be the top 5 pacers in history as well.

Bumrah is still playing but he has the lowest avg and SR. SR simply jumps out due to gap from others. Bumrah is picking 5-fers faster than everyone else in this group except Hadlee. Steyn played in flat era so does not show up here, but add Steyn with top 5 here and they form the top 6 pacers in history with Wasim/Holding following them. Add Lillee and IK here. That's pretty much sums up top 10 pacers in history.
 
All Asian bowlers in SENA:

Bumrah has most wickets, lowest avg and lowest SR.
Avg between Bumrah and 2nd best is around 4 runs per wicket.
SR between Bumrah and 2nd best is around 12 balls per wicket.



1750620449139.png
 
Buffet said:
Entire history of cricket:

Pacers with 150 away wickets - sub 25 Avg against non-minnows



When all said and done ,I suspect , the top 5 here will be the top 5 pacers in history as well.

Bumrah is still playing but he has the lowest avg and SR. SR simply jumps out due to gap from others. Bumrah is picking 5-fers faster than everyone else in this group except Hadlee. Steyn played in flat era so does not show up here, but add Steyn with top 5 here and they form the top 6 pacers in history with Wasim/Holding following them. Add Lillee and IK here. That's pretty much sums up top 10 pacers in history.
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Ah, forgot about Donald. He will displace some one out of top 10 to get a spot from 7-10 somewhere to form the top 10 pacers in history.
 
Quality wise, he stand right up at the topmost level among all ATG bowlers. However, one must accept that he lacks durability and his uneasy action makes him harder to play all games will ensure that he can’t go past a Marshall or McGrath.

Outside these two, there are other true ATG bowlers like Hadlee, Steyn, IK, Ambrose, Donald and Wasim and I think Bumrah and Cummins would fall in same league.

Quality wise, Bumrah is as good as anyone, he has a phenomenal test average and his white ball exploits are as good as anyone in this era. He is an all format ATG but lack of durability costs him as a contender for GOAT fast bowler.
 
Ab Fan said:
Quality wise, he stand right up at the topmost level among all ATG bowlers. However, one must accept that he lacks durability and his uneasy action makes him harder to play all games will ensure that he can’t go past a Marshall or McGrath.

Outside these two, there are other true ATG bowlers like Hadlee, Steyn, IK, Ambrose, Donald and Wasim and I think Bumrah and Cummins would fall in same league.

Quality wise, Bumrah is as good as anyone, he has a phenomenal test average and his white ball exploits are as good as anyone in this era. He is an all format ATG but lack of durability costs him as a contender for GOAT fast bowler.
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300+ test wickets and 600+ international wickets will be more than enough to be a contender for that spot. But that's a long way to go. He may never get there. Just enjoy watching him till he lasts.

Marshall, Donald etc has 300-400 test wickets and limited overs no need to look at volume. Bumrah is right up there with top pacers even if he calls it a day. Currently, no one will become great by picking lots of wickets in limited overs, it's about how well you bowl in tournaments.
 
Buffet said:
All Asian bowlers in SENA:

Bumrah has most wickets, lowest avg and lowest SR.
Avg between Bumrah and 2nd best is around 4 runs per wicket.
SR between Bumrah and 2nd best is around 12 balls per wicket.



View attachment 155559
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These stats are faulty because Bumrah gets to bowl at many T20 hacks/inferior batters. He gets lots of easy wickets.

90's bowlers didn't have that luxury.

If Bumrah was playing in the 90's, he probably would've averaged 30+. :inti
 
Ab Fan said:
Quality wise, he stand right up at the topmost level among all ATG bowlers. However, one must accept that he lacks durability and his uneasy action makes him harder to play all games will ensure that he can’t go past a Marshall or McGrath.

Outside these two, there are other true ATG bowlers like Hadlee, Steyn, IK, Ambrose, Donald and Wasim and I think Bumrah and Cummins would fall in same league.

Quality wise, Bumrah is as good as anyone, he has a phenomenal test average and his white ball exploits are as good as anyone in this era. He is an all format ATG but lack of durability costs him as a contender for GOAT fast bowler.
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If Don can be in contention of greatest ever after playing just 52 tests (and facing way less variety of opponents, pitch, bowling styles) , why cannot Bumrah (who is already at 43 tests).

Why the double standards?
 
Sachin fan said:
If Don can be in contention of greatest ever after playing just 52 tests (and facing way less variety of opponents, pitch, bowling styles) , why cannot Bumrah (who is already at 43 tests).

Why the double standards?
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Because of the Don's batting average of 99.94. That would be akin to a bowler averaging 1 or 2 with the ball. Bumrah too would have been the GOAT by now if he had a similarly out of the world bowling average of maybe 1 or 2.

Tell me, would we all have considered the Don the GOAT if his batting average were 65 instead of 99.94?​
 
Hitman said:
Because of the Don's batting average of 99.94. That would be akin to a bowler averaging 1 or 2 with the ball. Bumrah too would have been the GOAT by now if he had a similarly out of the world bowling average of maybe 1 or 2.

Tell me, would we all have considered the Don the GOAT if his batting average were 65 instead of 99.94?​
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If Sachin or smith had played only Bangladesh and Sri lanka as two team in their entire career, they would end up averaging over 90 too.

Not much variety in pitches, no proper mystery spinners, no reverse, no tech to study faults and most of all, only one proper opponent in an era most cricketers were just amaeuters with other jobs, (like Scotland or Ireland players are today)

If was an entirely different era.
 
Sachin fan said:
If Sachin or smith had played only Bangladesh and Sri lanka as two team in their entire career, they would end up averaging over 90 too.

Not much variety in pitches, no proper mystery spinners, no reverse, no tech to study faults and most of all, only one proper opponent in an era most cricketers were just amaeuters with other jobs, (like Scotland or Ireland players are today)

If was an entirely different era.
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Which is why I don't compare players across eras. Ian Chappell said it best once that he believes a champion player from one era would be a champion player of any other era.​
 
Sachin fan said:
If Don can be in contention of greatest ever after playing just 52 tests (and facing way less variety of opponents, pitch, bowling styles) , why cannot Bumrah (who is already at 43 tests).

Why the double standards?
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Does Bumrah avg 1 to 5? Is he that much of an outlier compared to Don?

The whole 1 to 2 team argument doesn't make sense when you realise that don wasn't a time traveller who played in the modern era and went back in time to boost his avg.

He was a player from that era, born in said era, and he avg 99.94 while everyone else weren't even close to it.

Secondly Bradman's avg wasnt the onpy metric, he was > everyone in all metrics including no of runs scored, no of centuries scored for that time, every year he topped the charts of eun scoring, every series he had the most runs.

During bodyline everyone had an avg of 10 while don had an avg of 56. He would.have had a higher avg if batters at the other end didnt constantly fall.

Bumrah on the other hand has an avg but he isn't > everyone in every metric in this era. Does he have the most 10 wicket hauls in this era? Does he have any 10 wicket hauls? What about his NZ avg thats sticking out like a sore thumb? Did Bradman have any red marks against any team?

Bradman literally has one red mark which is a 56 avg during a bodyline series and even then his avg and runs are higher then everyone including English players who didnt even have to suffer bodyline
 
Can't find prior to 2003 but Pak historically had bad fielding.How does it affected Wasim stats if he played for different team who had better fielding IMG_20250623_205954.jpg
 
Sachin fan said:
If Sachin or smith had played only Bangladesh and Sri lanka as two team in their entire career, they would end up averaging over 90 too.

Not much variety in pitches, no proper mystery spinners, no reverse, no tech to study faults and most of all, only one proper opponent in an era most cricketers were just amaeuters with other jobs, (like Scotland or Ireland players are today)

If was an entirely different era.
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Plenty of rest between games. Only one format. Horrible fielding standards. One dimensional field placings (except during Bodyline). Also, Bradman would've been an extremely boring player to watch considering he hardly hit any sixes in his entire career.

That said, no one else came even close to doing what he did at the time. Surely, someone should have been able to average at least 70-80. And so that alone leaves me with no issue if people want to call him the Don.
 
pillionrider said:
Plenty of rest between games. Only one format. Horrible fielding standards. One dimensional field placings (except during Bodyline). Also, Bradman would've been an extremely boring player to watch considering he hardly hit any sixes in his entire career.

That said, no one else came even close to doing what he did at the time. Surely, someone should have been able to average at least 70-80. And so that alone leaves me with no issue if people want to call him the Don.
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You realise this metric is flawed? The equipment they played with? Sachin and smith wouldnt even avg 10 on that era.

Those bats are so razor thin and lack any power that playing a drive required a massive swing whereas now adays a simple nudge results in a boundary? Or heck even an edge?

Many of these cutesie unorthodox strokes we see today from Butler, de villers, Pant aren't even possible in that era?

Theirs a video of bat comparisons as well on youtube of what Bradman played with and what viv played with. Literally a night and day difference from 30's to 60's.

You cant exactly hit sixes with those bats.

If Sachin and smith were to go back and play they'd have to relearn everything when it comes to cricket, the only thing that would help them.is superior footwork. But even then its not easy to play with hardly any equipment.

Try pulling a chest high ball with no helmet? Psychologically its human nature to avoid it if death is a major possibility. That's why bodyline is difficult. Its useless in today's era due to equipment.

Even in squash, Jahngir Khan would lose to many squash players today yes, but have these modern squash players play with the razor thin paddle esc rackets that Jahngir played with and they'd get stomped.

Same case with magnus vs Bpbbu Fisher in chess. Magnus wins obviously but id like to see him beat Bobby if he never had engines or coaches or got to play with players like Hikaru, Gukesh, vishnu, Gary etc etc over and over and had to teach himself chess through newspaper articles and playing with absolute fodder like myself or yourself in a daily basis due to lack of actual world wide tournaments?
 
Sachin fan said:
If Don can be in contention of greatest ever after playing just 52 tests (and facing way less variety of opponents, pitch, bowling styles) , why cannot Bumrah (who is already at 43 tests).

Why the double standards?
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Nobody except Hobbs was close to his first class average despite many players during his time valued club more than they do today.In that large sample size in early 20th century he was way ahead of others.Also at that time pitches were not covered and bats were like hockey stick.
 
Fanboy375 said:
Can't find prior to 2003 but Pak historically had bad fielding.How does it affected Wasim stats if he played for different team who had better fielding View attachment 155580
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There is no proper data around this so we can only go by personal assessment here, so I would say that Pakistan’s overall fielding shortcomings didn’t have a significant impact on Wasim’s wickets tally.

It is important to distinguish between fielding and catching. Pakistan’s slip catching in the 90’s wasn’t bad at all and Rashid Latif was an outstanding keeper although Moin was unreliable.

Even if there was some impact, it couldn’t be very significant.
 
Sachin fan said:
If Sachin or smith had played only Bangladesh and Sri lanka as two team in their entire career, they would end up averaging over 90 too.

Not much variety in pitches, no proper mystery spinners, no reverse, no tech to study faults and most of all, only one proper opponent in an era most cricketers were just amaeuters with other jobs, (like Scotland or Ireland players are today)

If was an entirely different era.
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I don’t agree with you if that was the case how many batsman even in has era has 70+ average forgot 90+ pls learn to respect its a game not country on war against someone that’s the problem with subcontinent fans too narrow minded.

Btw I haven’t any doubt that bumrah is along with malcom marshall is best ever even better than 😎>>McGrath(who had atg team and immense support While bumrah has waqar level garbage bowler to support him)

Once again 😎
Bumrah+ Malcom Marshall>>Better than everyone >>Jalne walo jalte raho>>🤡🔥🔥
 
Hitman said:
Because of the Don's batting average of 99.94. That would be akin to a bowler averaging 1 or 2 with the ball. Bumrah too would have been the GOAT by now if he had a similarly out of the world bowling average of maybe 1 or 2.

Tell me, would we all have considered the Don the GOAT if his batting average were 65 instead of 99.94?​
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Lol its not 1 or 2 you have to just unique like all atg bowlers have under 18-22 avg and under 50 striker rate so bowlers equivalent of bradman should be under 15 avg and strike rate under 35
 
Only Indians can go from wasim to Bradman. Yeah man, Mr nz 45 avg + 0 10 wicket hauls is such an outlier, Mashallah.

Goat ct 2017 and 2023 final. Kya baat hai bradman bumrah ki
 
mominsaigol said:
Only Indians can go from wasim to Bradman. Yeah man, Mr nz 45 avg + 0 10 wicket hauls is such an outlier, Mashallah.

Goat ct 2017 and 2023 final. Kya baat hai bradman bumrah ki
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Bumrah single handedly won us WT20 in 2024. He was the main reason for winning BGT series previously.

200 wickets at <20 avg in Test cricket. Yeah, he is an outlier indeed who can turn the game on his own.

People can definitely hold Bumrah higher than Wasim as not only Indians, but many ex-cricketers believe him to the contender for GOAT bowler. Again, no disrespect to Wasim, but people can believe, Wasim’s peak is higher. Its subjective but comparing two ATGs are valid.

But whats the point of bringing down Bumrah? 90% of the time he comes in to turn the game, he does it.
 
Theanonymousone said:
Bumrah single handedly won us WT20 in 2024. He was the main reason for winning BGT series previously.

200 wickets at <20 avg in Test cricket. Yeah, he is an outlier indeed who can turn the game on his own.

People can definitely hold Bumrah higher than Wasim as not only Indians, but many ex-cricketers believe him to the contender for GOAT bowler. Again, no disrespect to Wasim, but people can believe, Wasim’s peak is higher. Its subjective but comparing two ATGs are valid.

But whats the point of bringing down Bumrah? 90% of the time he comes in to turn the game, he does it.
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The context is Bumrah vs Bradman. Bradman is an outlier because he is > everyone in every single metric for his era. Heck even per game, he only got outscored early on in his career and his final game where he got dismissed early.

No of runs, cemturies scored, Avg, etc etc, he was top in all metrics.

Bumrah isn't. His status is not = Bradman. I dont think that'll ever be possible. Theirs a reason even gusiness world records put bradman >>>>> Ronaldo and Messi and other players since in all of sports history, he literally sticks out like a sore thumb.

Sports has never had a massive outlier like bradman unless you count wwe undertaker streak lol.

Im aware the era was different, bit if it was that easy, then you'd expect everyone from that era avg 70-99, however no one was even close with all avg being 40-60.
 
Sachin fan said:
If Don can be in contention of greatest ever after playing just 52 tests (and facing way less variety of opponents, pitch, bowling styles) , why cannot Bumrah (who is already at 43 tests).

Why the double standards?
Click to expand...
Because Bumrah is not Don.

Bumrah is top 10 certainly even at 45 tests. You can put him in top 5. But the difference isn’t big so people can have their opinions.

If a Pakistani says that Imran and Wasim are better bowlers than Bumrah and he will be happy to pick those two above Bumrah, he is not talking nonsense. Neither would you if you pick Bumrah above those two.
 
Theanonymousone said:
Bumrah single handedly won us WT20 in 2024. He was the main reason for winning BGT series previously.

200 wickets at <20 avg in Test cricket. Yeah, he is an outlier indeed who can turn the game on his own.

People can definitely hold Bumrah higher than Wasim as not only Indians, but many ex-cricketers believe him to the contender for GOAT bowler. Again, no disrespect to Wasim, but people can believe, Wasim’s peak is higher. Its subjective but comparing two ATGs are valid.

But whats the point of bringing down Bumrah? 90% of the time he comes in to turn the game, he does it.
Click to expand...
Even umar gul was beast in both t20 wc 2007 and 2009, t20 is not metric to measure....bumarah flopped in icc wtc final also...
 
In order for bumrah to be Bradman, he needs to essentially be a massive massive outlier in his era.

And while he is clearly > Rabada, Boland, Starc etc etc, he has been outperformed in certain games with boland outperforming him in some BGT games as well.

In terms of status, a player like Don will never exist. No player in any era has stood like a sore thumb except for Don.

The only argument for Don is era this and that.

But the fact we have had to wait for over a 100+ years to finally find an argument that can undermine him, while I can casually undermine any player including bumrah with no effort proves that his status will never be on par with Don.
 
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