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How to beat this team India?

dragon751 said:
lets see , just a few more months to find out :)
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They have a very good attack. Woakes and Willey can swing it. Moeen and Rashid can spin it. And they also have an enforcer with pace. However, I still think Indian bowling is the best with Eng not so distant.
 
rhony said:
They have a very good attack. Woakes and Willey can swing it. Moeen and Rashid can spin it. And they also have an enforcer with pace. However, I still think Indian bowling is the best with Eng not so distant.
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i agree ... the eng batting is a notch above the ind line up and the ind bowling is a couple of notches above the eng bowlers( man for man )
 
dragon751 said:
yes ... get the perfect bowler in peak form and control of his skill .... you can tame any team with that bowler :P
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I love mitchel stark, and i really hope he gets his mojo back, Would be fun to watch the aussies back again on the stage dictating terms.
 
Its the spin duo. Another Shoaib or brett lee won't solve that lol
 
dragon751 said:
i do think you over rate this india team , while they are very good atm they are not that good that opp needs a starc at that level for them to be taken down
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I think you under-rating your own team. Kohli, Rahane, Sharma, Dhawan & Rahul, they all are super stars. And now Dhoni too. I mean, their consistency reeks of what Aussies used to be. And i think they are just starting..

All they lacked was a good bowling unit. We all pretty much agreed that they have a great batting line up, and now look at Yadav. If he is around for next decade, he will easily get to 400 wickets. He is such a promising lad.

And also, look at Bumrah, as he is very accurate with new ball and at the death too. Shami is a striker too. Indian team is a force to reckon with.
 
xricket said:
That is not true. Serious pace, with precision, would run through any batsman. I was betting on Stark to do it for Australia, but he couldnt because due to the lack of precision. He was also not at his best, bowling below 150 most of the times. Shoaib didnt use to have swing from what I recall. It was his attitude and aggression, coupled with searing pace.
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Living in the pre-bowling machines,pre t20,reverse swing era.With bowling machines batsmen can practice at 150 kph day in day out.
 
xricket said:
Akhtar didn't need conditions. How did he bowled the wall of india and little master on two consecutive balls? Hint: Searing pace, with bit accurracy
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He was also destroyed in the world cup itself leading to pak's exit by the same man bowling at 155 kph.
 
austerlitz said:
Living in the pre-bowling machines,pre t20,reverse swing era.With bowling machines batsmen can practice at 150 kph day in day out.
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It's one thing to practice and another to face it. Bowling Machines don't have the intelligence of a bowler
 
shah_1 said:
If Jofra Archer is added(he will be avaliable after march). Woakes, Archer, Plunkett, Stoakes, Moeen and Adil isn't exactly popgun attack. Which team has 6 bowlers like that?
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India has better than that , that was exactly my point..... adil is decent in tests but in odis he is below par ..... archer is unproven ,woakes and plunket are known entities in int odis and get taken apart quite regularly by most teams
 
rhony said:
It's not. England is the favorite and rightly so. There's no one that can match their fire power. However, they are pitch dependent unlike India. If it's a flat wicket, Eng are going to be unbeatable. If there is something on the pitch, India can better exploit it and counter it
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If the pitches are not ultra flat highways, all of the other top 6 teams have a chance against them. England did not win the ODI series in RSA, India and their series in NZ was pretty close. A full strength Australia with Warner/Smith/marsh and their best bowlers should give them a run for their money as well. Pakistan, too, beat them on a used pitch in Cardiff so matches between top 6 teams will be extremely well competed and England won't have a clear advantage. But i remember Morgan whinging about pitches not favouring the home team during the Champions trophy and if they go out of their way to make such pitches, they are outright favourites.
 
austerlitz said:
He was also destroyed in the world cup itself leading to pak's exit by the same man bowling at 155 kph.
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And he took his wicket too at the end. Re-read this thread. It's just not about only pace. 150 with accuracy is key, coupled with aggression in terms of good short bowling direct at the body. I am not going to repeat what I stated earlier
 
shah_1 said:
If Jofra Archer is added(he will be avaliable after march). Woakes, Archer, Plunkett, Stoakes, Moeen and Adil isn't exactly popgun attack. Which team has 6 bowlers like that?
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I never said they are a popgun attack. They are a good one but probably not a world class one which can win games on their own.
 
xricket said:
And he took his wicket too at the end. Re-read this thread. It's just not about only pace. 150 with accuracy is key, coupled with aggression in terms of good short bowling direct at the body. I am not going to repeat what I stated earlier
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Took his wicket after game was over.Was beaten out of the attack,beaten in his 2nd spell as well and refused to bowl after first over when captain asked him to.
 
xricket said:
I think you under-rating your own team. Kohli, Rahane, Sharma, Dhawan & Rahul, they all are super stars. And now Dhoni too. I mean, their consistency reeks of what Aussies used to be. And i think they are just starting..

All they lacked was a good bowling unit. We all pretty much agreed that they have a great batting line up, and now look at Yadav. If he is around for next decade, he will easily get to 400 wickets. He is such a promising lad.

And also, look at Bumrah, as he is very accurate with new ball and at the death too. Shami is a striker too. Indian team is a force to reckon with.
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i agree with all the points you make but still dont consider them invincible as a team, am not under rating them just being realistic ...... they need some solidity in the mid order before they get there and the selectors and mgmt seem uncomfortable with making those changes ....
 
xricket said:
Lol, if only it were that easy.
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It is that easy,as we showed mitchell starc in t20s and tests.Pace isn't enough unless - u can sustain it and unless you are accurate.Its also much less effective against top quality modern batsmen who are used to it.Especially against rohit bouncer strategy is suicide.Will hit 2 sixes every over.
 
austerlitz said:
Took his wicket after game was over.Was beaten out of the attack,beaten in his 2nd spell as well and refused to bowl after first over when captain asked him to.
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As i said, he was way off the charts in terms of accuracy in that match. He should have made use of his lethal short pitch bowling and bouncers earlier, while not providing width.
 
austerlitz said:
It is that easy,as we showed mitchell starc in t20s and tests.Pace isn't enough unless - u can sustain it and unless you are accurate.Its also much less effective against top quality modern batsmen who are used to it.Especially against rohit bouncer strategy is suicide.Will hit 2 sixes every over.
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Lol, its a fact that you cant control bouncer above shoulders. And if you bowl below them, you make sure you dont give room. Accuracy is the key
 
SamNJ said:
Play your first XI not the B or C side.
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Sides are defined as B or C side in this forum to discount Indian wins over those sides. This is a concept advanced by some jealous fans whose own teams then go on to lose to these so called B and C sides.
 
dragon751 said:
dude akthar is on record in interviews on tv( pakistani tv no less) saying how much those two balls swung :)
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in said interview he says , sachin was not watching the game before he came out to bat so did not know the ball was swinging and hence did not play to counter it and got bowled
 
dragon751 said:
dude akthar is on record in interviews on tv( pakistani tv no less) saying how much those two balls swung :)
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Akhtar didn't know two chit about swing. He was on record, long before that he only bowls fast and he doesn't mean to swing it. I heard it a long time ago.
 
xricket said:
Akhtar didn't know two chit about swing. He was on record, long before that he only bowls fast and he doesn't mean to swing it. I heard it a long time ago.
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just watch the interview and then form your opinions about those two balls , i think he was being interviewed by dr nauman niaz
 
England batting vs Indian bowling would be the duel to watch. It's both those sides' bigger strengths at the moment. England played Kuldeep and Chahal well when India toured there, but so did New Zealand when they toured India, and now are getting skittled out for 200-odd. In a tournament where you usually play the same team no more than twice, England might be surprised by Kuldeep and Chahal. You add in Bumrah and Shami who didn't play that ODI series in England last year and they'll be tough to get away.
 
TNAmarkFromIndia said:
England batting vs Indian bowling would be the duel to watch. It's both those sides' bigger strengths at the moment. England played Kuldeep and Chahal well when India toured there, but so did New Zealand when they toured India, and now are getting skittled out for 200-odd. In a tournament where you usually play the same team no more than twice, England might be surprised by Kuldeep and Chahal. You add in Bumrah and Shami who didn't play that ODI series in England last year and they'll be tough to get away.
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my sense is kuldeep and chahal have improved in the past 6 months to a year , and with msd behind to learn from are learning to read the batsmen more consistently and thats causing problems
 
Babbar said:
You forgot the third ODI that India won with 8 wickets in 50 overs. So a 2-1 score in own grounds for England is not that great! But winning almost any ODI series against India anywhere is a miracle these days! so yeah! England did great!
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If you bother to read, I said in two of the matches. England thrashed India and have the better side. You should deal with it, if not I have some vaseline for you.
 
India is a lock to make the World Cup Semi Finals.

Then the team facing them must hope for a freak performance from one of their bowlers, like Fakhr smashing a 100, or Amir removing their top 3.

That is really the only way to beat them, needing a miracle performance from one of your players.
 
so many days in between world cup and now. A lot can change. Getting rid of ROhit/Kohli will do half the job done. Getting rid of Dhawan as well will do 65% of the job done.
 
asifp said:
India is a lock to make the World Cup Semi Finals.

Then the team facing them must hope for a freak performance from one of their bowlers, like Fakhr smashing a 100, or Amir removing their top 3.

That is really the only way to beat them, needing a miracle performance from one of your players.
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By freak performance you mean lucky.

Only Amir's performance was genuine in that match, and even then we don't know how he would have fared without a 330 run pressure on the Indians.
 
Nikhil_cric said:
If the pitches are not ultra flat highways, all of the other top 6 teams have a chance against them. England did not win the ODI series in RSA, India and their series in NZ was pretty close. A full strength Australia with Warner/Smith/marsh and their best bowlers should give them a run for their money as well. Pakistan, too, beat them on a used pitch in Cardiff so matches between top 6 teams will be extremely well competed and England won't have a clear advantage. But i remember Morgan whinging about pitches not favouring the home team during the Champions trophy and if they go out of their way to make such pitches, they are outright favourites.
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He can whine all he wants the home team has no control over world cup pitches, icc appoints the curators for this not ECB.
 
It feels strange reading all these posts. No team is invincible. Certainly not this Indian team. Our middle order is weak. The 5th bowler is weak. We have to cross a whole IPL season without any major injuries.
 
Just play better than them. India has lost many times and will lose many times.
 
Its easy. Get Rohit Dhawan and Kohli for single digit scores.

Then hit Bumrah Shami Chahal and Kuldeep to all corners of the ground.

Mission accomplished.
 
Just dismiss Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli cheaply. That's half the battle won.
 
When its their turn to bat, lock up their dressing room and make sure they can't make it to the ground. They loose by default and everyone goes home happy :)
 
par said:
It feels strange reading all these posts. No team is invincible. Certainly not this Indian team. Our middle order is weak. The 5th bowler is weak. We have to cross a whole IPL season without any major injuries.
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This!

I think we are way too overrated in ODIs and probably underrated in tests a bit.

Coming to ODIs, we can't be favourites for WC with that middle order. I'd rate English (certainly at flat beds at home) and SA (IF they can leave behind their choking abilities at home) ahead of us.

Also you can never discount an Australian team out of a CWC.

So that's at least 3 teams which are probably bigger favourites than us for reaching WC finals.
 
Get our top 3 within 50 runs and it's game over. No bowling attack can defend low scores irrespective of how great they are in LOIs. LOIs are all about batting and Indian team has plenty of weakness in their batting.
 
Hitman said:
Just dismiss Rohit, Dhawan and Kohli cheaply. That's half the battle won.
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but if rayudu, dhoni, jadav, pandya give them a decent total.

back bhuvi, shami, bumrah, kuldeep to defend it
 
Also forgot to add Pakistan. Because of them being most mercurial and also due them winning a world title in these very conditions not so long ago, makes them a very dangerous side, notwithstanding their current form.
 
It's funny some fans are speaking about us like we are in the league of the great West Indies team of the 80's or the Aussie team of 00's.

We are a good team, and probably the best team currently. But we are not invincible like those 2 teams were. Even those 2 teams had to face epic humiliations during their period of dominance on a few occasions.

India were an outright average team, and yet we defeated the West Indies twice in the 83' World Cup. The Aussies of 2000' chewed apart teams and spat away their bits and pieces during their time of dominance. Yet they lost to a struggling team like India (back in 2001 India were struggling), and England in Ashes, 2005.

Not even the 2 GOAT teams could boast of victories everywhere in every series during their time of dominance. We are merely a good team, nothing more.
 
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Except England , most other teams can do is pray hard in the morning of the game that its Indias off day.....just like CT2017 final day
 
I think India are beatable in LO if a team can score a big 300 plus score. Top 3 will not be able to save India then. Rest of the line up would be under pressure
 
Honestly I don’t think we are that good . We are still very poor chasing totals Andy if you get Virat early I can see teams defend par scores .
 
Hasan123 said:
I think India are beatable in LO if a team can score a big 300 plus score. Top 3 will not be able to save India then. Rest of the line up would be under pressure
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I feel the same. When a team scores above 300 batting first, the top order of India won't be able to do the job every time.
 
Hitman said:
I feel the same. When a team scores above 300 batting first, the top order of India won't be able to do the job every time.
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Only Virat can chase 300 totals , even he’s been under lot of pressure lately . We have been poor chasers for a while now
 
Hasan123 said:
I think India are beatable in LO if a team can score a big 300 plus score. Top 3 will not be able to save India then. Rest of the line up would be under pressure
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They couldn't even chase 288 against Australia at the SCG.

India is a bowling team in LOI cricket. Put up a par score or higher and they won't be able to chase.
 
There’s no team till date that has consistently chased 300 or more runs consistently- not SA with ABD, not pPonting and not The current India team. That’s why a team needs to just aim for 300 (a run a ball) and then if they are in a a real good situation( say 240/3) after 40 overs, try to reach 325+.

Don’t have this obsession to make the pitch a 350-run patta from the beginning. It’s too ambitious and will, more often than not, result in 225-250 all out or worse.

Very rarely you will lose with 300 runs in the bank unless someone like Kohli/ABD/Sharma tears into you but even they will be able to do this just 1 in four times. Against a strong team like Ind/Eng, 300 runs will win you 75% of matches and against others it will get 90%. That’s good enough to make you #1 in the world.


That’s what India tries to do now. Just run a ball and reach 290-330 in every match. That’s why Dhoni with an average of 80 is indispensable as he allows the other side to hit at 120+. Pakistan should be proud of Imam if he can continuously make 50+ at 80% and get other explosive players to support him.
 
Babbar said:
There’s no team till date that has consistently chased 300 or more runs consistently- not SA with ABD, not pPonting and not The current India team. That’s why a team needs to just aim for 300 (a run a ball) and then if they are in a a real good situation( say 240/3) after 40 overs, try to reach 325+.

Don’t have this obsession to make the pitch a 350-run patta from the beginning. It’s too ambitious and will, more often than not, result in 225-250 all out or worse.

Very rarely you will lose with 300 runs in the bank unless someone like Kohli/ABD/Sharma tears into you but even they will be able to do this just 1 in four times. Against a strong team like Ind/Eng, 300 runs will win you 75% of matches and against others it will get 90%. That’s good enough to make you #1 in the world.


That’s what India tries to do now. Just run a ball and reach 290-330 in every match. That’s why Dhoni with an average of 80 is indispensable as he allows the other side to hit at 120+. Pakistan should be proud of Imam if he can continuously make 50+ at 80% and get other explosive players to support him.
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This is all good and dandy only because our bowling is top notch. 300-310 totals in England during world cup will be a losing total. Teams like England, Australia , NZ (on flat tracks) will easily score 340-350.
 
Right now Pakistan is confused... Do they want bowlers or all-rounder.... What r options in spin depth.
Shahdb
Nawaz
I guess both of them r played for their batting ability rather than bowling...and their bowling looks time pass.. U got to pick bowlers primarily for bowling like previously there was saqlain, mushi...
 
Sorry but this Indian team is unbeatable. They have got all basis covered and should win the upcoming world cup with ease. My money's on India defo.
 
Wahid1234 said:
Sorry but this Indian team is unbeatable. They have got all basis covered and should win the upcoming world cup with ease. My money's on India defo.
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Our middle order is nothing special. If top 3 fail, we will lose evry second game. Also, too many hacks like Rayudu/ Jadeja/ Jadhav in the squad.
 
India real strength is there bowling , very varied and controlled attack.

Possibly India will have these 5 bowlers Pandya , Bumrah , Bhuvi / Shami , Kuldeep and Chahal.

This attack Can defend a score of 275 - 280 , specially with two wicket taking options in middle overs.

If someone wants to win against India , there is two scenarios .

First If you batting first against India. You need to make sure you play the fast bowlers well and when spinners are on there are set batsmen facing them. Try and milk the spinners as much as possible. If you get 275 - 280 runs on board , it gives you a chance.

If you are bowling first , pitch the ball up , even if you are hit for some boundaries early on. That is the only way to get few early wickets.
 
Tridibans_16 said:
Our middle order is nothing special. If top 3 fail, we will lose evry second game. Also, too many hacks like Rayudu/ Jadeja/ Jadhav in the squad.
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Jadhav is very useful player with both bat and ball.
Jadeja is not in the team.

It is Rayudu that we need to worry about. Surely he can't bat at 6. He needs to bat at 5 if he has to be there and Jadhav at 6.
 
Win the toss and bat first


Get off to a slowish start


Have some luck with a bowler off-stepping on a dismissal


Then start smashing their spinners, and whatever you can Pandya's bowling (spin with long run-up?)


Eventually end up with a score of 338


Give the shiny new cherry to Amir


Rip through their top three, with a dropped catch thrown in the mix, because Pakistan


The rest will take a knee


Easy peasy
 
India are not invincible. They have a weak lower and middle order.

Also, their fast bowling replacements are very mediocre. There is always a chance of an injury to your fast bowlers, particularly after a long IPL.

Don't read too much into their performances in Aus/NZ. A very average Pakistani side almost beat NZ in one days, when they were saved by rain. Australian side is the weakest since decades.

India depend a lot on their top 3. and if there is some help for the opposing bowlers with the new ball, which is very much possible in England, they can struggle.

India is a very good side, but the current mediocrity of Australia and South Africa make them look even better. Indian side looks outstanding because today there are only two good One Day sides in India and England.
 
barah_admi said:
If you bother to read, I said in two of the matches. England thrashed India and have the better side. You should deal with it, if not I have some vaseline for you.
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This whole thread is a testimony to how all of us are dealing with a specific fact! Lots of Vaseline for many here!
 
waqar goraya said:
India are not invincible. They have a weak lower and middle order.

Also, their fast bowling replacements are very mediocre. There is always a chance of an injury to your fast bowlers, particularly after a long IPL.

Don't read too much into their performances in Aus/NZ. A very average Pakistani side almost beat NZ in one days, when they were saved by rain. Australian side is the weakest since decades.

India depend a lot on their top 3. and if there is some help for the opposing bowlers with the new ball, which is very much possible in England, they can struggle.

India is a very good side, but the current mediocrity of Australia and South Africa make them look even better. Indian side looks outstanding because today there are only two good One Day sides in India and England.
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Performances in NZ don't count? Only the ones in UAE count?
 
waqar goraya said:
India are not invincible. They have a weak lower and middle order.

Also, their fast bowling replacements are very mediocre. There is always a chance of an injury to your fast bowlers, particularly after a long IPL.

Don't read too much into their performances in Aus/NZ. A very average Pakistani side almost beat NZ in one days, when they were saved by rain. Australian side is the weakest since decades.

India depend a lot on their top 3. and if there is some help for the opposing bowlers with the new ball, which is very much possible in England, they can struggle.

India is a very good side, but the current mediocrity of Australia and South Africa make them look even better. Indian side looks outstanding because today there are only two good One Day sides in India and England.
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Pakistan got blanked 5-0 in NZ though. India is so far dominating NZ handily.
 
BaankeJi said:
Performances in NZ don't count? Only the ones in UAE count?
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In fact Pakistan had been quite poor in UAE in ODIs, before performing well against this NZ side, which showed that NZ were not a confident side in ODIs at the moment. This Australian side is pretty weak, as you would agree.

Already acknowledged the fact that India are one of the two best ODI sides at the moment. But there are couple of vulnerabilities.
 
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