Average of 34.5 against mighty indian batting line up is still better on dead tracks. Granted, few great might have it better, like some spinners may be, or McGrath, but Shoaib was still better than most and had the indians dead to their rights more often than not
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Average of 34.5 against mighty indian batting line up is still better on dead tracks. Granted, few great might have it better, like some spinners may be, or McGrath, but Shoaib was still better than most and had the indians dead to their rights more often than not
Shoaib was a product of Golden era of Pakistan fast bowling that included IK, Wasim, Waqar and a few more. They were all good but their fans tend to take their exploits to super-heroic levels by watching on YouTube their selected deliveries that Yorker batsmen (especially Indians and even more Sachin) and cartwheeled their middle stumps. It’s like Indians remembering ‘Baap Baap hi hota hai, Beta Beta hi hota hai” dialogue between Sehwag-Shoaib-Sachin
The reality is a little different.
The reality is a little different.
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Only in Pakistanis’ fervent imagination!
Hitman
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So now a bowling average of 34.5 suddenly becomes good. Next we'll hear that a batting average of 25 is good as well keeping in mind the conditions 
Lol, youtube can't even begin to remind how good was he. I have been following cricket since 99 at least and have always found him to be fascinating & express fast.
Hitman
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Not to mention he averages 50 at SR 82.7 at home against India in 6 Tests
Link: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling
So now a bowling average of 34.5 suddenly becomes good. Next we'll hear that a batting average of 25 is good as well keeping in mind the conditions
You can say so.
he did own india, many times
Doesn't work these days in LoI's, it works in test cricket because the bowlers have a lot of leeway, no balls and wides won't be called off short stuff or otherwise unless it's egregious, in LoI's even the slightest bit of error and you are bowling free hits and extra deliveries, this isn't a video game so no bowler can actually pick wickets to that field as no one can accurately bowl at the same spot consistently.
Nothing special though, as his actual stats paint a different picture to your fantasized image.
Lol, bowling wides and no balls aren't necessary to deliver well directed short pitch stuff. At this level, it is expected to be this much consistent, otherwise good batsman punish you. That's really define an average or a good bowler, besides his pace & other weapons such as swing
Stats are like CGPA. Doesn't give you actual picture. May look good or work for someone who didn't watch those matches, for an argument, but stats for bowlers don't often tell complete picture
Do you understand what dead to the rights even means, Venkatesh Prasad has an average of 19 in tests against pakistan, that is what is called good figures.
Those are normally the arguments used when people want others to believe stuff that doesn't exist, 34.5 average is atrocious you may want to beleive otherwise but in the real world it is atrocious.
Yeah, i stand by what i said
You can stand by whatever mate, but no one other than you is going to believe 34 is a good average for a bowler.
Stats don't give you a complete picture. Sometimes bowler bowl well, but team members drop catches and perform poor in the field. Stick around this forum, and you will learn a lot from me
With inconsistent batsmen (especially the openers) pakistan has produced over the years, i wonder why it's not any lower.
Stats don't give you a complete picture. Sometimes bowler bowl well, but team members drop catches and perform poor in the field. Stick around this forum, and you will learn a lot from me
I'd rather not, but if you are offering i will have whatever you are having, seems like strong stuff.
Also catches his team mates dropped, only place he averages worse is australia with 35, everywhere else it is below 30, even funnier is that his S/R in india is 61, and again other than australia and zimbabwe below 50. So these magical fielders only drop catches against us and australia do they?
Bilal.0
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Just have to be lucky. The current Indian team is head and shoulders above anyone else. The depth of talent is insane, their focus, fitness and fielding is beyond believe.
You are still going by stats. I don't need them to know how shoaib bowled lol. Oh, and we had such a poor fielding team. Regarding India, their batting line up was better. So, was Australia's. So, no wonder Australia played them well, like India, but he always one of the most effective fast bowler, against those teams when other bowlers struggled
Usman Chadda
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Not the right time to create this thread, so close to the World Cup
This lights up Monday! So what if stats don’t validate the superiority. So what if Australia and India thrashed him, Shoaib, in my heart, was still the best. It’s fielding that is responsible for poor stats.
My San Ramon neighbour too has this irritating habit of telling me how cute and smart is his kid. The poor ugly kid likes to eat bananas all the time, lives on trees and can’t count beyond 10 at the age of 10. Oh well! Why disabuse him of his pride!
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Right old man Dhoni, Fat man jhadav are the epitome of fitness. If anything their middle order will be their Achilles heel. This team won’t go past the first stage. Allways remember Ct2017. That will
Be the blueprint everyone can use to defeat India. Now if they used Gill, Pant and Shaw in the middle order for Dhoni, hackadu and fat boy yadav I would say India is unstoppable. Once you get the top 3 out you just need to pitch some short balls or bouncers to the middle order and the game is in the bag.
Tridibans_16
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Please save this post. You will need to post it again before the 2023 world cup.
Or for that matter, in 2045 or so, what a win that CT was. Amazing!
I don't know, man. Not many people are interested in other peoples' life as you seem to be. I hope you aren't weird in real life or anything. Normally, people keep to their own and go about it, instead of focusing what the next neighbor kid is doing with bananas. Take care of yourself, will you?
Tridibans_16
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Not the right time to create this thread, so close to the World Cup
Don't worry. We won't win the world cup. We have enough passengers to lose in the knockouts.
I personally will be disappointed if we don't make the finals.
waqar goraya
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NZ did not win in UAE, were whitewashed in T20s and were saved by rain in the decider one day. Before that series Pakistan had not won an ODI series in UAE against a top side or against NZ anywhere in many years. So, I was just telling you that current NZ is facing some issues, when you have an opener with an average of 25 in this era, it tells you something about their form and strength.
Nevertheless, India are a tough side and one of the 2 best sides, but that just does not make them invincible.
No, Pakistan A side beat England Lions couple of months back in One Day series.
waqar goraya
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You might have couple of passengers but some others are so good that they still make the team formidable. And the other teams are no where near their prime. Australia and South African sides are nowhere near their 90s or 00s strengths. I have not watched India at all but looking at stats I feel Rayudu has his stabilization role and I was surprised at Jadhav's amazing ODI record.
The real issue with India I believe still remains fast bowling department. Although Bumrah and Shami have performed well, Shami is injury prone and India's third pacer is not good enough. Will they persist with two spinners?
CT 2017 win will become the family heirloom, to be passed on from generation to generation and used repeatedly whenever consolation is needed.
Ab Fan
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Need to learn to play the bowlers and put 300 total on board. That's the only chance. I can't see anyone being able to stop the top3 unless they are chasing 300+ under extreme pressure.
India's third pacer is Ishant, who has averages 25.85 over the last 2 years.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...7;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling
India's alternative third pacer is Bhuvi, who averages 20.66 over the last 2 years.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...7;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling
To give the above 2 bowlers a relief, or even if India wanted an extra pacer in the team, you have Umesh Yadav who averages 26.17 over the last 2 years.
http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...pan;template=results;type=bowling;view=series
These are all match winning averages given India's batting strength.
Hari Sombar
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Need to get the top 3 early, bowl tight to the top 3, dont allow easy runs or drives, needs to be consistent top of off stuff.
Middle order are easier to combat, Dhoni will build pressure on himself and others, Rayudu will always offer chances, Jadhav and Pandya are unpredictable.
Bowlers: Play out Bumrah and Kuldeep (very dangerous to attack), Chahal and Shami have shown they can be taken for runs (use your feet to chahal), Pandya isnt much of a problem.
Overall, a sensation bowling unit and top order, inconsistent middle and lower order, but the best India team for a long time.
Middle order are easier to combat, Dhoni will build pressure on himself and others, Rayudu will always offer chances, Jadhav and Pandya are unpredictable.
Bowlers: Play out Bumrah and Kuldeep (very dangerous to attack), Chahal and Shami have shown they can be taken for runs (use your feet to chahal), Pandya isnt much of a problem.
Overall, a sensation bowling unit and top order, inconsistent middle and lower order, but the best India team for a long time.
imranq
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India has always had a great batting lineup. What makes this team lethal is they finally have a world class bowling attack that can win them games irrespective of what the batting does especially the spin trio of chahal and yadav.
In a knockout encounter the best way to beat them I reckon is to be aggressive against the pacers upfront and get in to a situation where you are not forced to attack the spinners rather play them out for 4-5 runs per over.
In a knockout encounter the best way to beat them I reckon is to be aggressive against the pacers upfront and get in to a situation where you are not forced to attack the spinners rather play them out for 4-5 runs per over.
geraltofrivia
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ct2017 didnt have kulcha the gods of spin. if kulcha had played in ct it would have been like asia cup. pak capitalized completely on ash and jaddu.
geraltofrivia
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Third pacer not required as it will be Pandya. Two spinners wont be broken. They are our talisman.
geraltofrivia
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Earlier it was the Afridi six. In the next 5 years they'll win 1, losing 6-7 and then that will be the new heirloom.
For a team that lost 4-1 to England and 2-1 to Sa I’m trembling with fear on playing against an Indian team that has a lineup consisting of old man Dhoni , fat boy jhadav and hackadu...lol. This Indian team is not Invincible unlike the Australian team that won 5 titles. Allways remember ct2017 where a lower ranked team schooled India to oblivion. Allways remember that it will most likely happen again in the world cup.
4-1 to England and 2-1 to SA were lost not because of Dhoni. He infact scored 4 50s and 2 100s. How can you forget Jadav's six off Rabada on the last ball to win that one game in SA? As long as we are speaking facts about ODI cricket........
jnaveen1980
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Basically you are hoping for a miracle lol
Bilal7
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Bat first, score 280-300 and take out their top three.
Honestly, Kuldeep is, imo, a lot superior than Chahal. Most opponents will fear Kuldeep way more than Chahal.
waqar goraya
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Career averages are still more reflective of a fast bowler's caliber. Then these are limited test stats. Bhuvi, for example has played only 5 tests and his ODI performances are not very impressive. Yadav is usually very erratic and expensive, the guy has a career economy rate of 6.
The fact that Ishant has not played an ODI in Indian colors for quite a while tells something about his credentials in white ball cricket. He seems a test specialist.
GrandMaster
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Pretty much what happened in CT final. But scoring 300 against the currently Indian bowling line up would be a mammoth task for any team.
geraltofrivia
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I think it is you who need to remember that there have been a few matches played by India and Pakistan post that CT17.
And the less said about Pakistan's test performances the better - Ajaz Patel pffff.
jnaveen1980
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Most memorable one is that double hundred parntership between Dhawan and Rohit at the UAE.
RedwoodOriginal
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Any team can have a good day in ODIs
In my opinion, the last two year span is a better guide to what a bowler may achieve this year rather than career average.
Also, I was discussing Tests where historically India used to lack a pace attack capable of getting wickets. For ODIs, we don't need more than two pacers + pace bowling all-rounder (Pandya) and two spinners.
Syed1
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Such arrogance... you are talking as if Pakistan has never beaten Indian. Munnay let me remind you the win/loss ratio is still massively in Pakistan's favour. Chalo nikalo.
fitCricFan
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Actually you should be shi%$^ in your pants when our team goes against India.
Personal insults and chest thumping apart, the Indians are are a better knit team with the expectation that they will win. On the opther hand we rely on luck and hope that we will play well or the Indians will falter and we end up on the winning side.
Yes, I do remember we won CT but as must have been obvious by now, it was a fluke and we got owned in Asia cup.
austerlitz
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One good thing is in the ODI series in England we lost 2-1 our bowling attack was umesh,kaul,pandya first 2 games.Raina and rahul was in the team whole series.Thakur ,half fit bhuvi,pandya in 3rd.No bumrah,no shami,no kedar.In the world cup our team that they will face will be much stronger.
All spots are taken now,only number we need to replace rayudud with gill.
All spots are taken now,only number we need to replace rayudud with gill.
CricFan2012
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Reminder to people that this Indian bowling attack is not the CT one. Even that attack could have caught us with our pants down if Bumrah didn't bowl the no ball. With the addition of Kuldeep, Chahal, and a fit Shami they have a superior bowling attack to us.
Any LOI series they have lost in the recent few years they have rested key players, this is a scary team to face in the World Cup where they will be playing for everything, so no Bumrah or Kohli will be rested.
India has a 40-50% chance of winning their 3rd World Cup unless Bumrah gets injured as he is the key bowler, or freak/lucky performances by the opposition, only the English batters can stop them, but even then they are untested against India's leg spinners and England has been a historically weak side against spin.
Its a good time to be alive for Indian fans, this team is shaping up to be one of the best LOI sides of all time along with Aussies of 2000s, and the Windies of the 80s,
Any LOI series they have lost in the recent few years they have rested key players, this is a scary team to face in the World Cup where they will be playing for everything, so no Bumrah or Kohli will be rested.
India has a 40-50% chance of winning their 3rd World Cup unless Bumrah gets injured as he is the key bowler, or freak/lucky performances by the opposition, only the English batters can stop them, but even then they are untested against India's leg spinners and England has been a historically weak side against spin.
Its a good time to be alive for Indian fans, this team is shaping up to be one of the best LOI sides of all time along with Aussies of 2000s, and the Windies of the 80s,
Not in this decade, or even this MILLENIUM.
Next you will be talking about how West Indies are the best cricket team in the world. Times have changed and moved on, Unkil!
jnaveen1980
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India has two extremes. They can absolutely get pummelled or they will steamroll the opposition. Not the kind of Pakistan unpredictability i am talking about. India is a fairly predictable side. Top order collapse. Pressure sets in. They will fail with their batting as unit since there are only 3 match winners with bat in the side unlike the past era where they had 7 match winners.
docteurmanish
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munna and unkil
bhai pak was v good in 80s given sharjah , azar fixer captain and lack of phhast bowlers in india
since venkatesh prasad vs aamir sohail though , india has been a better side
while india batting has always produced champions - watch shaw and gill and u know nextgen is here
but from prabhakar and kapil to srinath prasad to srinath zaheer nehra to modern day bumrah shami ishant yadav bhuvi pandya aaron mavi nagarkoti rajput - indian fast bowling is what is different unkil
bhai pak was v good in 80s given sharjah , azar fixer captain and lack of phhast bowlers in india
since venkatesh prasad vs aamir sohail though , india has been a better side
while india batting has always produced champions - watch shaw and gill and u know nextgen is here
but from prabhakar and kapil to srinath prasad to srinath zaheer nehra to modern day bumrah shami ishant yadav bhuvi pandya aaron mavi nagarkoti rajput - indian fast bowling is what is different unkil
top order batting and the spin twins is what makes india special, if it was all about fast bowling than SA would have been fav's.
Bilal7
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That really was the perfect template. I'm not even saying this because it was Pakistan but that was the perfect game any team can play against India.
Ah the smugness, despite Pakistan being ranked #5, having a worse W/L ratio than Bangladesh since 2016, and being humiliated twice by India C in the Asia cup.
By the way, Pandya the "spinner" is faster than Amir and Hasan.
Syed1
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Not to mention he averages 50 at SR 82.7 at home against India in 6 Tests
Link: http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...orderby=default;template=results;type=bowling
Common those were heart breaking flat wickets with scores of over 600 runs most innings.
fitCricFan
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Yes we have beaten the Indians but its like once in a blue moon. We can only fluke a win so often. Stats don't lie if you want to objectively analyze them
And how will you do that?
The post doesnt ask for that. But I guess by bowling 3 wicket taking balls.
Then you can say score more runs than India. Even simpler
No because if you dont take the top 3 down you will not score more runs than them
Hyperion66
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I expected the win but never expected back to back carnage, Rohit-Dhawan literally went all washing powder Nirma on them lol.
Arsalan Pro
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Score 280+ and get Top 3 under 50 total.
280 is what Kohli would eat for breakfast
Arsalan Pro
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That's why I said get Top 3 under 50 which includes Kohli.
But how? I mean, someone could say to get their top 10 out under 50. the question is, HOW?
Arsalan Pro
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By bowling well, BTW last time I checked it's more easy to get Top 3 for 50 than 10 wickets for the same amount of runs. They are 3 Quality batsmen and the reason why India win most of their matches, it is very difficult to get them out but not impossible.
Ab Fan
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India's strength currently is top 3 and their bowling attack.
Rohit
Dhawan
Kohli
Shami
Kuldeep
Chahal
Bumrah
Pandya adds strength as well. A brilliant fielder, a perfect no. 7 ODI batsmen and a good 5th bowling option if you have got someone as backup for 6th option.
The good thing for India is that Dhoni has performed well in last couple of series and so has Jadhav while Rayudu hasn't done much wrong either.
Rohit
Dhawan
Kohli
Shami
Kuldeep
Chahal
Bumrah
Pandya adds strength as well. A brilliant fielder, a perfect no. 7 ODI batsmen and a good 5th bowling option if you have got someone as backup for 6th option.
The good thing for India is that Dhoni has performed well in last couple of series and so has Jadhav while Rayudu hasn't done much wrong either.
jnaveen1980
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You have to consider this is one of the worst fielding unit.
Rayudu, Jadhav, Chahal more importantly Dhoni is horrible these days behind the stumps other than stumpings.
geraltofrivia
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jadhav also a decent 6th bowler. can get a few overs out of him if one of the main guys are having a bad day.
Ab Fan
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Jadhav actually is a very valuable player down the order. He is not perceived as threatening as the top order or Bumrah or spin duo of Kulcha are but he does his job very quietly and ensure there isn't much of panic around. His only issue is his fitness and injury.
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