Hundreds of houses and shops of Christians torched by Muslims in Lahore

[Black Zero]

Source: Dawn, Jang

The mob attacked the houses in Joseph Colony in Badami Bagh police precincts in the provincial capital following allegations of blasphemy against a Christian man. The man was booked under Section 295-C of the Pakistan Penal Code (PPC).

It appeared that the man had been falsely accused of blasphemy but the police was forced to register a case to placate the mob, a local police official said.

Speaking to a private television channel, Punjab Law Minister Rana Sanaullah said the accused man was in police custody.

Sanaullah said all those involved in the arson would be arrested, adding that his government would try to rehabilitate the affected Christian families.

AP adds:

Police officer Multan Khan said the incident started Friday when a young Muslim man accused the Christian man of committing blasphemy.

A large crowd from a nearby mosque went to the Christian man’s home on Friday night and Khan said police took the man into custody to try to pacify the crowd.

Fearing for their safety, hundreds of Christian families fled the area overnight.

Khan said the mob returned on Saturday and began ransacking Christian homes and setting them on fire.

Blasphemy is an extremely sensitive subject in Pakistan – a nation of 180 million people, 97 per cent of whom are Muslims, and those convicted of defaming Islam or desecrating the Quran can face life imprisonment or even the death penalty.

Human rights activists claim the laws are often used to settle personal vendettas and last year two prominent politicians were assassinated apparently for speaking out against the legislation.


=============================================================
LAHORE: A frenzied mob on Saturday went on rampage, torching over 100 houses in Joseph Colony in Lahore's Badami Bagh area, Geo News reported.

A senior police officer Javed Khalid said Badami Bagh Police charged a 26-year old man Sawan Masih with blasphemy and booked him under Section 295-C. He said the accused had been arrested.

Geo News reporter said tension prevailed in the area since last night and on Saturday angry protesters went berserk.

They pelted police officials with stones, leaving several injured. Police have failed in containing the protesters.

The police requested some Muslim clerics to intervene and bring the situation under control.

Allama Tahir Ashrafi, Chairman Pakistan Ulema Council said people should refrain from such acts of violence as the accused had been arrested.

He said such acts would create wrong impression of the country. Other noted Ulema also condemned the violence and called on the government to provide protection to the Christians.



President Asif Ali Zardari, Prime Minister Raja Pervez Ashraf and CM Punjab Shehbaz Sharif have taken notice of the incident while CM Punjab sought a report from the Home Secretary Punjab.

 

[eradicator]

Read this news earlier. Absolutely horrible.

Who would dare to mess up with the Muslims in Pakistan when even false implications have such an impact on so many people of the community ?

Very very intolerant.

 

[mithun_minhas]

Some super sensitive people there.

 

[hafeezrocks]

Punjab really has gone to the dogs in the recent times.

 

[Garuda]

Who wants religion ?

 

[UmarAkmals-fan]

yar ya humara pakistani bhai kab sudra gaa

 

[prtikul]

Who wants religion ?

And then believers of various religions try to prove their religion as rationally correct

 

[shan]

Anyone killed yet? Shame on those muslims.

 

[Bhaijaan]

Two nation theory -


#1. Made Indian muslims too weak.
#2. Made Pakistani muslims too strong.

 

[jatt]

And then believers of various religions try to prove their religion as rationally correct

if one religion is like this doest mean all are bad.

 

[SIMBA]

PMLN Zindabad...cant even protect the minorities.

Shame on these muslims.

 

[Bhaijaan]

if one religion is like this doest mean all are bad.

Extremists exist in all religions.

 

[akheR]

Two nation theory -


#1. Made Indian muslims too weak.
#2. Made Pakistani muslims too strong.

What has the TNT to do with it ?

 

[shan]

It seem so far no one has died which is great. As long as blasphemy laws exist minorties in Pakistan cant feel save.

 

[prtikul]

if one religion is like this doest mean all are bad.

I don't think we can categorize any religion as bad. All of them have some crazy ideas, it's followers like these who are hell bent on following it at it's purest form without any tolerance to other beliefs create bad image overall.

 

[Fateh]

Two nation theory -


#1. Made Indian muslims tolerant,educated & progressive .
#2. Made Pakistani muslims too regressive .

edited . btw, my personal opinion .

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Speaking to a private television channel, Punjab Law Minister Rana Sanaullah said the accused man was in police custody.

Sanaullah said all those involved in the arson would be arrested, adding that his government would try to rehabilitate the affected Christian families.

I hope the Pakistan media follow up on this story and see if that promise is made good. Blasphemy laws aside, there is no place for mob violence in any nation which aspires to be a civilised society.

 

[Fateh]

I don't think we can categorize any religion as bad. All of them have some crazy ideas, it's followers like these who are hell bent on following it at it's purest form without any tolerance to other beliefs create bad image overall.

key word is intolerance dost & i agree with you completely .

 

[Down2Earth]

The sooner they get rid of this law the better.

 

[shah_1]

SICK PEOPLE


shame on PML N for doing nothing

 

[Markhor]

Terrible attack. Now I'm not sure whether the argument that these attacks are SOLELY based on religious intolerance is valid. There is indeed an element of that, but there is a wider, underlying issue here, and I'm not looking to excuse these zealots at all.

Religious identity is often used as a pretext to vent, to let off steam and riot - it is unacceptable but when people have to suffer from daily blackouts in electricity, lack of jobs, lack of clean drinking water caused by government inaction and corruption, and cannot afford to put bread on the table due to rising prices - then these people will riot - and look for an excuse to torch buildings. This blasphemy law gives people an excuse to vent.

And people will often release these inbuilt frustrations, this agony at the hardship of their daily lives, on the people lower down the social ladder who are the more vulnerable minorities and in this case a Christian minority.

I'm not saying religion is to blame here, but there is a huge misuse of this religious identity by many Pakistanis, far too many who think of themselves as upholders of Islamic morality. Religious identity gives these people, and its often the poorest and more ill-informed something to cling onto - when all hope is lost in this life, and when they lack education, and lack values of right and wrong, then religion is the only thing they can grasp - and unfortunately when they perceive that mainstream society lets them down - then they are cannon fodder for all these radical preachers and militants who promise them relief in the afterlife and an escape from their daily grind. We can talk about culture and religious scriptures all we want but at the core of this is economics. A lack of money in your pocket and food in your stomach, radicalises people into thinking that violence is acceptable. We saw this in 1930s Germany, a classic example. Now I'm sure there are wealthy jahils who also have warped religious views, but its predominantly ordinary people that are misled by these angry mobs. Also where is the law enforcement agencies in all this ? A lack of effective policing and a corrupt judicial system means that the militants get away with their crimes time and time again.

 

[Grunge101]

Yet again it proves that extremism is not limited to a couple of terrorism groups,its everywhere.

Religion kills.

 

[Fateh]

Terrible attack. Now I'm not sure whether the argument that these attacks are SOLELY based on religious intolerance is valid. There is indeed an element of that, but there is a wider, underlying issue here, and I'm not looking to excuse these zealots at all.

Religious identity is often used as a pretext to vent, to let off steam and riot - it is unacceptable but when people have to suffer from daily blackouts in electricity, lack of jobs, lack of clean drinking water caused by government inaction and corruption, and cannot afford to put bread on the table due to rising prices - then these people will riot - and look for an excuse to torch buildings. This blasphemy law gives people an excuse to vent.

And people will often release these inbuilt frustrations, this agony at the hardship of their daily lives, on the people lower down the social ladder who are the more vulnerable minorities and in this case a Christian minority.

Religious identity gives these people, and its often the poorest and more ill-informed something to cling onto - when all hope is lost in this life, and when they lack education, and lack values of right and wrong, then religion is the only thing they can grasp - and unfortunately when they perceive that mainstream society lets them down - then they are cannon fodder for all these radical preachers and militants who promise them relief in the afterlife and an escape from their daily grind. We can talk about culture and religious scriptures all we want but at the core of this is economics. A lack of money in your pocket and food in your stomach, radicalises people into thinking that violence is acceptable. We saw this in 1930s Germany, a classic example. Now I'm sure there are wealthy jahils who also have warped religious views, but its predominantly ordinary people that are misled by these angry mobs. Also where is the law enforcement agencies in all this ? A lack of effective policing and a corrupt judicial system means that the militants get away with their crimes time and time again.

You make a valid point friend . 1 question - what kind of religious teachings are being imparted that the common pakistani has no respect & tolerance for human life in general & [their version of ] non-muslim in particular ?

 

[King Cobra]

Corruption, Rising prices of food items, illiteracy is forcing Innocent muslims to behave this way and go on a rampage?

I wonder if Hindus, Sikhs , Christians are living an absolute comfortable stress free life in Pakistan because we never to hear about these non-muslim groups going on a rampage killing innocent muslims in Pakistan.

 

[Down2Earth]

You make a valid point friend . 1 question - what kind of religious teachings are being imparted that the common pakistani has no respect & tolerance for human life in general & [their version of ] non-muslim in particular ?

The common pakistani? Is the common indian brainwashed?

 

[SAPakFan]

I don't think we can categorize any religion as bad. All of them have some crazy ideas, it's followers like these who are hell bent on following it at it's purest form without any tolerance to other beliefs create bad image overall.

If anyone is hell bent on following 'islam' at its purest form, they wouldn't even think of commiting such an act. If you look at how tolerant Nabi SAW was you'd wonder who are these muslims trying to emulate.
''ISLAM IS PERFECT, MUSLIMS AREN'T, DON'T GET CONFUSED!!!''

 

[Fateh]

The common pakistani? Is the common indian brainwashed?

can you post for a day without trolling about India or Indians ?

 

[Bhaijaan]

Markhor's pov has some validity after all its always the uneducated and starving poor people that are indulging in this stuff, when did the last time you heard of doctors, engineers and lawyers torch public property and kill innocent people in riots? Is it that only the uneducated and starving poor people are the most devout worshipers and the educated elite are beghairat? That must be established if we're gonna give it a religious angle.

 

[mani1]

Corruption, Rising prices of food items, illiteracy is forcing Innocent muslims to behave this way and go on a rampage?

I wonder if Hindus, Sikhs , Christians are living an absolute comfortable stress free life in Pakistan because we never to hear about these non-muslim groups going on a rampage killing innocent muslims in Pakistan.

These clowns need to be made an example of.
Also isn't the above the reason why Christians are on the warpath against minority's especially Muslims in first world Greece and have also voting in alarming numbers for a Nazi party.

 

[Fateh]

Markhor's pov has some validity after all its always the uneducated and starving poor people that are indulging in this stuff, when did the last time you heard of doctors, engineers and lawyers torch public property and kill innocent people in riots? Is it that only the uneducated and starving poor people are the most devout worshipers and the educated elite are beghairat? That must be established if we're gonna give it a religious angle.

friend, do you believe the common pakistani is uneducated & poor ?

 

[mani1]

Markhor's pov has some validity after all its always the uneducated and starving poor people that are indulging in this stuff, when did the last time you heard of doctors, engineers and lawyers torch public property and kill innocent people in riots? Is it that only the uneducated and starving poor people are the most devout worshipers and the educated elite are beghairat? That must be established if we're gonna give it a religious angle.

Lahore and also Karachi where it seem these things are endemic allegedly have literacy rates of around 90% if it was just about poverty and illiteracy you would see worse happening in alleged backwaters such as Gujar Khan or Mirpur.

 

[boomboomcheema]

Actually atrocities against Christians in Pakistan has increased a lot in the past decade after the WOT. A lot of Maulvis preach how these Christians are agents of USA ( due to shared faith ) who are responsible for bringing all the bloodshed in Muslim World.

 

[Fateh]

Lahore and also Karachi where it seem these things are endemic allegedly have literacy rates of around 90% if it was just about poverty and illiteracy you would see worse happening in alleged backwaters such as Gujar Khan or Mirpur.

then what do you attribute this intolerance & cruelty too mani ?

 

[mani1]

then what do you attribute this intolerance & cruelty too mani ?

I wouldn't know I am not from Pakistan nor are my Grand parents from those areas.

 

[Markhor]

You make a valid point friend . 1 question - what kind of religious teachings are being imparted that the common pakistani has no respect & tolerance for human life generally & their version of non-muslim in particular ?

I think some people in Pakistan believe what they CHOOSE to believe. Pakistanis are extraordinarily selective in their religion, they'll take out a few select passages out of context - usually the Haqooq-e-Allah passages, and completely ignore Haqooq-e-Ibad - yes one has a duty to their God, but what about their duty to their fellow human beings ?

And this goes back to this idea that people want to feel superior to others - if they cannot feel superior in terms of material wealth, or political power, then they want to feel religiously superior - so they will label someone a kafir or a blasphemer - and they commit violence as this blasphemy law acts as a pressure release valve for want of a better phrase.

Unfortunately this law is here to stay. The establishment secretly love this law - it keeps poor people distracted from the REAL issues such as economic collapse and political corruption. Religion is misused as a political tool by the establishment to keep control of society - they don't want people to think logically and rationally.

The preachers want the law because people will keep flocking in to hear their sermons - and for those donation boxes to be full.

The politicians want it because it retains them the support of the religious organisations who have significant grassroots power - and of course the votes keep coming in - hence the PML-N alliance with SSP and PPP alliance with Sunni Tehreek.

The media love it as they can keep reporting these tragedies and boost the ratings for their low-grade talk shows - although there are a few brave journalists who have spoken out against the law at the cost of their life.

The army want the law as it deflects blame away from their failed foreign policy which has cost the country thousands of lives and billions in cost.

 

[Fateh]

I wouldn't know I am not from Pakistan nor are my Grand parents from those areas.

oh ... my bad ,i presumed you are from pakistan .

 

[Markhor]

These clowns need to be made an example of.
Also isn't the above the reason why Christians are on the warpath against minority's especially Muslims in first world Greece and have also voting in alarming numbers for a Nazi party.

Precisely ! A lot of this is down to economics - for goodness sake let's get out of this idea that this is ONLY due to religion. This is not just Hindu, Sikh, Jew, Muslim - this about the way society operates and the way human beings look to rationalise their actions.

In Greece, people are voting for a fascist Christian party because they want quick, easy solutions for their problems - and of course its minorities, its immigrants who people can scapegoat. In Pakistan, people use minorities as a scapegoat for their daily problems.

Economic failure always results in this kind of political and religious radicalism.

 

[Fateh]

I think some people in Pakistan believe what they CHOOSE to believe. Pakistanis are extraordinarily selective in their religion, they'll take out a few select passages out of context - usually the Haqooq-e-Allah passages, and completely ignore Haqooq-e-Ibad - yes one has a duty to their God, but what about their duty to their fellow human beings ?

And this goes back to this idea that people want to feel superior to others - if they cannot feel superior in terms of material wealth, or political power, then they want to feel religiously superior - so they will label someone a kafir or a blasphemer - and they commit violence as this blasphemy law acts as a pressure release valve for want of a better phrase.

Unfortunately this law is here to stay. The establishment secretly love this law - it keeps poor people distracted from the REAL issues such as economic collapse and political corruption. Religion is misused as a political tool by the establishment to keep control of society - they don't want people to think logically and rationally.

The preachers want the law because people will keep flocking in to hear their sermons - and for those donation boxes to be full.

The politicians want it because it retains them the support of the religious organisations who have significant grassroots power - and of course the votes keep coming in - hence the PML-N alliance with SSP and PPP alliance with Sunni Tehreek.

The media love it as they can keep reporting these tragedies and boost the ratings for their low-grade talk shows - although there are a few brave journalists who have spoken out against the law at the cost of their life.

The army want the law as it deflects blame away from their failed foreign policy which has cost the country thousands of lives and billions in cost.

you write well bro ... another question - now we come to preachers,do you think extra emphasis on religion & hence reliance on mullahs has backfired for pakistan ?

 

[prtikul]

''ISLAM IS PERFECT, MUSLIMS AREN'T, DON'T GET CONFUSED!!!''

I am an atheist, I don't have any problem when any believer says that his religion is perfect but problem arises when he don't realize that it's subjective issue governed by faith rather than concrete logical evidences and explanations. So logically people of other religions have same right to call their religion as perfect while calling other as imperfect. After all we can't say that only my faith is perfectas faith can't be proved.

 

[Fateh]

I am an atheist, I don't have any problem when any believer says that his religion is perfect but problem arises when he don't realize that it's subjective issue governed by faith rather than concrete logical evidences and explanations. So logically people of other religions have same right to call their religion as perfect while calling other as imperfect. After all we can't say that only my faith is perfectas faith can't be proved.

well said prits

 

[Markhor]

you write well bro ... another question - now we come to preachers,do you think extra emphasis on religion & hence reliance on mullahs has backfired for pakistan ?

Oh yaar it has been one of the biggest calamities to have hit the state. Ever since the 1980s under Zia, and even further back under the fascist Bhutto regime we are seeing innocent youth in Pakistan being indoctrinated with this wicked type of hatred.

With kids coming out of school and college with no hope - unless they have family or clan connections, with no aspirations - then these people are such easy targets for the radical clerics.

They see people around them - they see rulers who are corrupt and neighbours who are happy to bribe officials if that means getting their way - then these kids have NO sense of right or wrong - no morality - so if killing in the name of religion is taught to them by these mullahs - then HOW are they supposed to know if they are doing right or wrong when ever their OWN government is in league with militants ?

We had around 800 unregulated madrassas in the mid-1970s. After the end of the 1980s, we had 30,000.

These clerics bash the west in their sermons and send their kids to American universities !

Now I would like to see a separation of religion and state in Pakistan but it is not the only solution and surely even the most die-hard secularist would accept that.

Every rung of society in Pakistan is infected with this disease - this complete lack of right and wrong - and who can blame the lower classes ? Look at the example their rulers set them. Unless there is change at the top of society, a change in government and a better example set by the leaders, there is no hope - and I don't see any chance of the status quo being eradicated unfortunately.

 

[saeedhk]

Animals.

 

[Bhaijaan]

friend, do you believe the common pakistani is uneducated & poor ?

I am not sure but whatever it is, wont be far from common Indian. Little while ago we had a Hindu-Muslim riot over payment of someone's hotel bill lol.

Lahore and also Karachi where it seem these things are endemic allegedly have literacy rates of around 90% if it was just about poverty and illiteracy you would see worse happening in alleged backwaters such as Gujar Khan or Mirpur.

Meri baat samajhein, how many of those 90% took part in this? Also you can rule out half of those 'merely passed' people as well as education hardly does any change to their life. Basically 20-30% of our people are really transformed by education and they are the ones who wont be seen torching a poor man's shop. Its usually those uneducated or 'just passed' useless people doing that stuff.

 

[shan]

"Sanaullah said all those involved in the arson would be arrested, adding that his government would try to rehabilitate the affected Christian families."

This is the must important part, and thanfully no one has been killed yet. And those Indians who have hijacked this thread with BS again, we all know what Modi did in far worse situation when 2000 muslims were killed and raped.

Things get ugly when goverment is involved in killing minorties like 2001 Gujrat and 1984 in India. Pakistan still have a long way to go before matching Indians when it comes to killing minorties.

 

[Buffet]

Unfortunately this law is here to stay. The establishment secretly love this law - it keeps poor people distracted from the REAL issues such as economic collapse and political corruption. Religion is misused as a political tool by the establishment to keep control of society - they don't want people to think logically and rationally.

The preachers want the law because people will keep flocking in to hear their sermons - and for those donation boxes to be full.

The politicians want it because it retains them the support of the religious organisations who have significant grassroots power - and of course the votes keep coming in - hence the PML-N alliance with SSP and PPP alliance with Sunni Tehreek.

The media love it as they can keep reporting these tragedies and boost the ratings for their low-grade talk shows - although there are a few brave journalists who have spoken out against the law at the cost of their life.

The army want the law as it deflects blame away from their failed foreign policy which has cost the country thousands of lives and billions in cost.

What's the view of majority for this law? Do they want to keep it?

 

[cricket365]

Sick people

 

[Fateh]

Oh yaar it has been one of the biggest calamities to have hit the state. Ever since the 1980s under Zia, and even further back under the fascist Bhutto regime we are seeing innocent youth in Pakistan being indoctrinated with this wicked type of hatred.

With kids coming out of school and college with no hope - unless they have family or clan connections, with no aspirations - then these people are such easy targets for the radical clerics.

They see people around them - they see rulers who are corrupt and neighbours who are happy to bribe officials if that means getting their way - then these kids have NO sense of right or wrong - no morality - so if killing in the name of religion is taught to them by these mullahs - then HOW are they supposed to know if they are doing right or wrong when ever their OWN government is in league with militants ?

We had around 800 unregulated madrassas in the mid-1970s. After the end of the 1980s, we had 30,000.

These clerics bash the west in their sermons and send their kids to American universities !

Now I would like to see a separation of religion and state in Pakistan but it is not the only solution and surely even the most die-hard secularist would accept that.

Every rung of society in Pakistan is infected with this disease - this complete lack of right and wrong - and who can blame the lower classes ? Look at the example their rulers set them. Unless there is change at the top of society, a change in government and a better example set by the leaders, there is no hope - and I don't see any chance of the status quo being eradicated unfortunately.

i know where you are coming from ...you must visit India once, we have poverty & retards too but a average Indian muslim is just another Indian .... he is going to college,disc, having fun & yet ambitious - not labelling everything as halal or haram - i notice some trolls here speak derogatorily about Indian muslims but the fact is ,he is a human who is having fun & yet living his life in the right lane .... i have 2 very close friends who happen to be muslims,they dont booze but we are everywhere together .... you wont be able to tag our religious orientation just by looking at us . here when i see some educated pakistani's affixing wrong or rite labels on everything,i wonder what is happening in your country . doesnt a avg 20 year old pakistani going to college have more issues than talking about religion 24/7 ?

 

[Runner Up]

Disgusting scenes. Sick people.

 

[Fateh]

"Sanaullah said all those involved in the arson would be arrested, adding that his government would try to rehabilitate the affected Christian families."

This is the must important part, and thanfully no one has been killed yet. And those Indians who have hijacked this thread with BS again, we all know what Modi did in far worse situation when 2000 muslims were killed and raped.

Things get ugly when goverment is involved in killing minorties like 2001 Gujrat and 1984 in India. Pakistan still have a long way to go before matching Indians when it comes to killing minorties.

well done,you did YOUR good deed of the day by dissing Indians . have fun living like a ostrich !!!

 

[prtikul]

Precisely ! A lot of this is down to economics - for goodness sake let's get out of this idea that this is ONLY due to religion. This is not just Hindu, Sikh, Jew, Muslim - this about the way society operates and the way human beings look to rationalise their actions.

In Greece, people are voting for a fascist Christian party because they want quick, easy solutions for their problems - and of course its minorities, its immigrants who people can scapegoat. In Pakistan, people use minorities as a scapegoat for their daily problems.

Economic failure always results in this kind of political and religious radicalism.

Interesting point, Being Indian I can relate with it,

Let's take a example of agnostic person with left ideology, so people may expect that he will vote only for secular or left parties. But it is not the case, If he have following two options

1) Right wing party having record of minority discrimination but some how it has good track record for development and comparably less corrupt.

2)Secular party who is in power from eternity but bad track record for development and more corrupt.


Then even he will vote for right wing party and I don't find it as particularly bad, He just choosing lesser of two evils.

 

[Runner Up]

Democracy my foot. We do not deserve this so called independence.

Feeling ashamed of being a Pakistani.

 

[mahout]

If anyone is hell bent on following 'islam' at its purest form, they wouldn't even think of commiting such an act. If you look at how tolerant Nabi SAW was you'd wonder who are these muslims trying to emulate.
''ISLAM IS PERFECT, MUSLIMS AREN'T, DON'T GET CONFUSED!!!''

Siege of Banu Qurayza: "The Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, authorised Sa'd ibn Mu'adh to give a decision about them. He passed an order: He who is subjected to razors (i.e. the male) should be killed, women and children should be enslaved and property should be distributed. Thereupon the Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, said: You have decided in confirmation to the judgement of Allah, above the seven heavens. The Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, sat with his Companions and they were brought in small groups. Their heads were struck off."

Bukhari (59:369) - This recounts the murder of Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, a Jewish poet who wrote verses about Muslims that Muhammad found insulting. He asked his followers, 'Who will rid me of this man?' and several volunteered. al-Ashraf was stabbed to death while fighting for his life.

Now there were good reasons for these incidents, and the men who torched the houses and shops of Christians have their own good reasons.

 

[Garuda]

If anyone is hell bent on following 'islam' at its purest form, they wouldn't even think of commiting such an act. If you look at how tolerant Nabi SAW was you'd wonder who are these muslims trying to emulate.
''ISLAM IS PERFECT, MUSLIMS AREN'T, DON'T GET CONFUSED!!!''

What is the use of perfect islam if muslims are not even close to it (forget about being perfect).

A religion is as peaceful as it's followers. Calling a text peaceful is of no meaning if the followers don't follow it at all.

 

[Fateh]

Siege of Banu Qurayza: "The Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, authorised Sa'd ibn Mu'adh to give a decision about them. He passed an order: He who is subjected to razors (i.e. the male) should be killed, women and children should be enslaved and property should be distributed. Thereupon the Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, said: You have decided in confirmation to the judgement of Allah, above the seven heavens. The Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, sat with his Companions and they were brought in small groups. Their heads were struck off."

Bukhari (59:369) - This recounts the murder of Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, a Jewish poet who wrote verses about Muslims that Muhammad found insulting. He asked his followers, 'Who will rid me of this man?' and several volunteered. al-Ashraf was stabbed to death while fighting for his life.

Now there were good reasons for these incidents, and the men who torched the houses and shops of Christians have their own good reasons.

where do you reside btw ?

 

[vandokkum]

Islam is perfect, Muslim's aren't. This statement holds as much value as saying Christianity is perfect, Christians aren't. No religion is perfect or even close to being so, humans are definitely not perfect.

 

[IgnitedMind]

What is so perfect about (any) religion which cannot make its followers perfect....

Number of people involved in rallies supporting Terrorists...usually in 10's of thousands...lawyers supporting killer of secular person...a bomb being set of every other day....Inability to celebrate a scientist..and state doing nothing to change the idiots did on his grave.....and many potential international terrorists roaming free with a following.....Doctors being killed for polio vaccinations.... propaganda against Polio vaccinations....A little kid being shot just for getting educated...so many mob incidents taking law into their hands in terms of blasphemy....regular targeting of a section of Muslims....Bin laden caught a Kilometer away from army head quarters.....I am sorry if I am forced to believe that there is something more fundamentally wrong....than these being stray incidents

Now these people are definately only 1 % or 2 % of the people or even less......but what is disaheartening is the Silent of the 98%....I am pretty sure few people in the 98% actually condone the idealogy....I am sad to see the silence.....a week does not go by with out a bomb blasts and death of innocent.....where is the uprising??? And Then I see some posts by "Educated users"heres..and it boggles my mind...

Now...since I am indian ....few people might see a certain tone in what I wrote ....but no...I wish pakistan well...like any other country there are common peoples with dreams that are suffering who are no different from everybody else in the Globe...

But these many cannot be stray incidents...and so many so frequent....there is something more wrong in the fabric /idealogy of the society itself....atleast that is what I feel as an outsider...

 

[vandokkum]

Certain religion being perfect is just a convenient excuse for the followers of the religion to justify current/ past events. It's not even exclusive to one religion

 

[Fateh]

Certain religion being perfect is just a convenient excuse for the followers of the religion to justify current/ past events. It's not even exclusive to one religion

it is a cover up for extremities aka shortcomings .

 

[jaguarjack]

what exactly was that again? "Land of the Pure.. Religion of Peace"

 

[UmarAkmals-fan]

Markhor's pov has some validity after all its always the uneducated and starving poor people that are indulging in this stuff, when did the last time you heard of doctors, engineers and lawyers torch public property and kill innocent people in riots? Is it that only the uneducated and starving poor people are the most devout worshipers and the educated elite are beghairat? That must be established if we're gonna give it a religious angle.

very well said

 

[jaguarjack]

Extremists exist in all religions.

Extremists do exist in all religions but in some they are just a tiny minority and in some they are the most vociferousness even if in minority. How a particular religion is perceived by others depends on how much power the moderates hold in that religion. Unfortunately, at least in the case of Pakistan, moderates seem to care too little while the extremist minority keep on rising hell in the name of the religion.

 

[mani1]

what exactly was that again? "Land of the Pure.. Religion of Peace"

A Christian war criminal and self proclaimed Crusader whose God told him to go to war coined that term.
Also the term Infidel was also used by the Christian Crusaders towards Muslims.

 

[IgnitedMind]

Markhor's pov has some validity after all its always the uneducated and starving poor people that are indulging in this stuff, when did the last time you heard of doctors, engineers and lawyers torch public property and kill innocent people in riots? Is it that only the uneducated and starving poor people are the most devout worshipers and the educated elite are beghairat? That must be established if we're gonna give it a religious angle.

Did you see how lawyers behaved when the Killer of Taseer was brought in the court? I believe they welcomed him with flowers..

There is a video of some big scientist...forgot his name..but the biggest and most involved in pak becoming a nuclear country making some derogatory statement about Ahmedi or some sect...

And what is scientists community pakistan doing for the disrespect shown to their own and only nobel laurette..

and btw....a guy who was caught keeping bomb in times square in ny was an educated pakistan...a doctor !!

And actually many big shots who are running the show are educated.....

I do not believe these are just people in poverty(sure they are more in the riots )..but the common factor is most of them are mad in their idealogy ..educated or not!!!

 

[Fateh]

Did you see how lawyers behaved when the Killer of Taseer was brought in the court? I believe they welcomed him with flowers..

There is a video of some big scientist...forgot his name..but the biggest and most involved in pak becoming a nuclear country making some statement about a derogatory statement about Ahmedi or some sect...

And what is scientists community pakistan doing for the disrespect shown to their own nobel laurette..

and btw....a guy who was caught keeping bomb in times square in ny was an educated pakistan...a doctor !!

And actually many big shots who are running the show are educated.....

I do not believe these are just people in poverty(sure they are more in the riots )..but the common factor is most of them are mad in their idealogy ..educated or not!!!

questions

 

[Black Zero]

Did you see how lawyers behaved when the Killer of Taseer was brought in the court? I believe they welcomed him with flowers..

There is a video of some big scientist...forgot his name..but the biggest and most involved in pak becoming a nuclear country making some derogatory statement about Ahmedi or some sect...

And what is scientists community pakistan doing for the disrespect shown to their own and only nobel laurette..

and btw....a guy who was caught keeping bomb in times square in ny was an educated pakistan...a doctor !!

And actually many big shots who are running the show are educated.....

I do not believe these are just people in poverty(sure they are more in the riots )..but the common factor is most of them are mad in their idealogy ..educated or not!!!

Abdul Qadeer ...he migrated from Bhopal...

he is mentally unstable..

 

[kashmirikhan]

Well this is the case of when the mass population of Pakistanis are so ignorant, all it takes is one fanatical leader to preach religious hatred and intolerance coupled with the blasphemy law, you're asking for disaster. It's so ingrained in their mentality, it doesn't matter whether they are educated or not, the mentality still exists. One only has to look at the Salman Taseer case where people openly celebrated his assassination from all circles of life or the imam who planted evidence against the 11 year old Christian girl. Was he tried for Blasphemy or sentenced for life?

Yet the same people hate the Pakistani Taliban's version of Islam.

 

[Bashira_taeli]

Another sad day for Pakistan.

 

[UmarAkmals-fan]

zia has ruined pakistan ..he gave too much power and freedom to these religious lunatics ..they took advantage of this and brainwashed millions ..things were getting better in the late 80s to 2000 then 911 happend and these mullahs went back to brainwashing the masses

 

[Bashira_taeli]

People are saying that there has been no loss of life because the Police had evacuated the neighborhood. Police knew the attack was gonna take place.

 

[Fateh]

People are saying that there has been no loss of life because the Police had evacuated the neighborhood. Police knew the attack was gonna take place.

really, why didnt they stop it ?

 

[dhump]

This makes me really really sad, one house in the same colony (unharmed) with a board hanging outside written " this house belongs to a Muslim" we are hitting new low every next day.

 

[saadibaba]

The price you pay for being cozy with militant organizations for political gain. This policy of appeasement is born out of cowardice but like history has shown us, you give these extremists a finger and they will take your whole arm off.

 

[Garuda]

The price you pay for being cozy with militant organizations for political gain. This policy of appeasement is born out of cowardice but like history has shown us, you give these extremists a finger and they will take your whole arm off.

Very true.

I had seen some Pakistani shows where it was being discussed how different Lashkars were freely collecting money (donations) from public to fight in Kashmir.

Now it is a time to think back and see how bad that decision was to support these Lashkars even if they were fighting your enemy.

It's about encouraging the mindset which is hurting the whole country now.

 

[vandokkum]

Some of the anti west/ conspiracy folks missing from this thread, surprise surprise.

 

[Garuda]

Some of the anti west/ conspiracy folks missing from this thread, surprise surprise.

Well, it is all done by CIA/Mossad/RAW and NATO. Problem solved.

 

[Singham]

There is a reason why pakistan is called the most dangerous country in the world.

 

[vandokkum]

Well, it is all done by CIA/Mossad/RAW and NATO. Problem solved.

Apologists for extremists are as bad as the extremists themselves

 

[SAPakFan]

Siege of Banu Qurayza: "The Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, authorised Sa'd ibn Mu'adh to give a decision about them. He passed an order: He who is subjected to razors (i.e. the male) should be killed, women and children should be enslaved and property should be distributed. Thereupon the Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, said: You have decided in confirmation to the judgement of Allah, above the seven heavens. The Apostle of Allah, may Allah bless him, sat with his Companions and they were brought in small groups. Their heads were struck off."

Bukhari (59:369) - This recounts the murder of Ka'b bin al-Ashraf, a Jewish poet who wrote verses about Muslims that Muhammad found insulting. He asked his followers, 'Who will rid me of this man?' and several volunteered. al-Ashraf was stabbed to death while fighting for his life.

Now there were good reasons for these incidents, and the men who torched the houses and shops of Christians have their own good reasons.

As you mentioned in the post Nabi SAW received wahi with regards to this incident,it wasn't just his own decision,what about the countless other times when he forgave & overlooked as opposed to taking things into his own hands, typical eg is when he went to Taif to give dawah, the ball was definitely in his court. If you look at his SAW's life on the whole you have to agree he was most tolerant & only in extreme cases did he ever resort to take action.

What is the use of perfect islam if muslims are not even close to it (forget about being perfect).

A religion is as peaceful as it's followers. Calling a text peaceful is of no meaning if the followers don't follow it at all.

We don't just follow a text but our leader Nabi SAW's life and example too. Even non muslims agree that he was the perfect human being, who lived his life according to the Quraan and to please God. If anyone tries to emulate his life, they'd definitely be successful. Problem is people make their own interpretations and many times use religoun to justify themselves whereas it isn't true. There aren't many people who can control their anger, emotions and even desires nowadays. Times are changing and many are drifting away from the true teachings of their religoun

Islam is perfect, Muslim's aren't. This statement holds as much value as saying Christianity is perfect, Christians aren't. No religion is perfect or even close to being so, humans are definitely not perfect.

You got a point. If i was living before prophet Muhammed SAW came as a messenger than Christianity would be the religoun to follow. But because Nabi SAW is the last and final messenger of God who brought to us the perfect religoun which should be followed until the day of Reckoning and i am living after that i should follow islam. I must add that the bible has many different versions and have been changed /altered by man over and over again. The same goes for other holy scriptures. You can't argue that the Quraan is the only divine book still in it's original language, and not a single word of it has been changed nor will it be until the end of the World. So it's the Perfect Divine Book. Even Jesus Christ told his followers about Muhammed SAW and that they should follow him when he arrives and so will Jesus when he is returned to the earth. Humans are def not perfect and especially in todays times it is extremely difficult for us to even try and emulate our Beloved leader who was def a mercy unto mankind. If you study islam you'll realise it's perfect,many reverts have said that if muslims had to follow islam the way it should be then almost everyone would want to be muslims and they too wouldn't have had to do so much research and soul-searching.

 

[oyei]

question: if religion was to be eliminated in the world, does that mean crime against humanity will end?

are the people worrying about crime against humanity (i.e; against individual or a nation) or they are concern that religion causes majority of the war, hunger, and oppression, since WW1?, separation of religion and state will give most the freedom of being openly gay, no one will ever be tried under blasphemy law. But does that mean that the elected government will not be overthrown by dictators supported by the most educated in the world. if you look at all the recent conflicts, the most heinous crimes against human and democracy have been committed by the people who have graduated from the most prestige institutions.

 

[LegCutter]

Failed country, failed people, failed state, failed Two-Nation Theory.

It sickens me, the current state of affairs in Pakistan. Ayaz Amir says it good,

'Islam is not a problem in Iran. It is not a problem in the UAE, the fleshpots of Dubai existing happily within the bosom of a strict Islamic society. Why have we made it into a problem in Pakistan? We who could have been a beacon for others, the cross-roads of east and west, starting point of a new golden road to Samarkand, why did we allow ourselves to become almost the leading example of a promising experiment gone hopelessly wrong? We should have been a laboratory of Islamic modernity. What evil star turned us into a laboratory of CIA-directed and Saudi-financed jihad?'

I dont agree with the last line but he's got the crux right