I don't think Pakistan underperformed

[Junaids]

I don't think Pakistan underperformed in South Africa at all. I think they performed precisely to their potential and ability, and in line with their lack of preparation.

A) Batting
Asad Shafiq, Younis Khan, Azhar Ali and Misbah-ul-Haq ended up scoring similar numbers of runs at similar averages to Graeme Smith, Alviro Peterson, Jacques Kallis, FAF du Plessis and Dean Elgar.

The only problems were that Hafeez and Jamshed were obliterated completely while Amla and de Villiers scored hundreds of runs.

But four of the six batsmen in the two sides were evenly matched in terms of performance.

B) Wicketkeeping
Here is a major gulf in class. Sarfraz and de Villiers were well-matched behind the stumps, but de Villiers scored 352 runs and Sarfraz scored just 83.

C) Bowling
This is the area where I blame the selectors.

Every fool knows that in South Africa you require 3-4 fast bowlers per match, including 1-2 who can bat proficiently.

Pakistan was always going to struggle without Amir and Asif, especially as it's becoming clearer that Umar Gul is a useful third seamer and that Junaid Khan cannot be relied upon when the going gets tough.

But the selectors didn't trust Irfan and their only back-up seamer was Ehsan Adil, which meant that Rahat and Tanvir had to be called up as reinforcements.

Quite why Wahab Riaz didn't get called up is a mystery. South Africa is the one place on earth where a 145K bowler who gets bounce but has dodgy direction is actually a huge asset and not a liability.

D) PCB failures
I have three questions for the PCB.

1) Why did they accept an itinerary with two tests in totally alien conditions at Johannesburg and Centurion when minimal research would show that Asian sides do best at Port Elizabeth and Durban?

2) Why did they send the team so late, with so little acclimatisation, and accept a single warm-up match on the slow, flat wicket by the seaside at East London immediately before a Test at high altitude at Johannesburg on the world's fastest, bounciest wicket? 49 all out was a totally predictable consequence.

3) Everyone knows that from overs 20-80 in South Africa batsmen can safely counter-attack against the old ball - even Saeed Ajmal, Tanvir Ahmed and Sarfraz Ahmed did so. So why wasn't Umar Akmal selected at number 6 and Kamran Akmal at number 7 to cash in?

All in all, terrible planning, terrible preparation, inappropriate selection.

Those are the causes of failure on this tour.

And if you want to know my "horses for courses" team that should have played right from the First Test in Johannesburg, well this is what I have learned after 4 First Class matches. If we'd arrived before the New Year and played 4 First Class games before the First Test, of course such wisdom after the fact would have been gleaned in enough time, and Hafeez, Umar Gul, Jamshed, Tanvir, Sarfraz and Junaid wouldn't have made fools of themselves on the big stage:

1. Azhar Ali
2. Imran Farhat
3. Younis Khan
4. Misbah-ul-Haq
5. Asad Shafiq
6. Umar Akmal
7. Kamran Akmal
8. Azhar Mahmood
9. Wahab Riaz
10. Saeed Ajmal
11. Junaid Khan or Mohammed Irfan

I would expect this side to be at least as good with the ball as the one which played, but I would expect a lot more runs from the openers and especially from numbers 7,8 and 9 in the batting order.

Kamran Akmal's inferior keeping wouldn't have been a problem, as Umar Gul, Junaid Khan, Tanvir Ahmed and Mohammad Irfan didn't get any edges anyway.

 

[Savak]

Had we played attacking cricket with the bat especially once we saw of the new ball, i think we would have done better. If you just block block, tuk tuk and dont rotate the strike you just give the bowler more confidence especially in conditions which suit them.

But our bowling was a big let down, while the other bowlers could be forgiven given their inexperience but Gul was the biggest culprit. It is inexcusable for him to perform like a confused novice, debutant even though he has been playing for 10 years and atleast 60 tests. And no i do not agree with him even being a third seamer because so often i have seen him come in, relieve pressure by leaking runs or bowling non threateningly after the first 2 bowlers have taken wickets and created pressure with the new ball.

 

[Usman]

How can you say we played to our potential when at our potential, all of these cricketers can do some serious damage? Just look at 3-0 against England. Hafeez was on fire in India, to the point where one of his innings was branded by Pak and Indian greats alike as one of the best one day innings they had ever seen. But Hafeez has some ridiculous mental block in test cricket, not to mention weakness against the moving ball.

Jamshed wasn't given a proper chance. He absolutely should have been persisted with.

Azhar was badly out of form coming into this series. Lack of practice meant this wasn't corrected. It took him well into the series to score anything substantial and by that time it was too late.

Younus was again out of practice but did eventually come good. Unfortunately he didn't get any other substantial scores and the team was simply relying on him I felt.

Misbah had a bad series. He looked ok with the bat but just did not play to his potential.

Asad showed great potential. Especially with his hundred. I don't think much blame can be put on him.

Sarfraz was a poor selection and we knew before a ball was bowled.

Umer Gul has never done anything special and so it's not surprising he didn't deliver.

Mohammed Irfan was on debut and performed reasonably.

Junaid was key for us and it's unfortunate he was injured.

Ajmal showed his class in the second test, the other pitches did not assist him.

Rahat, Ehsan and Tanvir were poor selections.

So it's not the case for most of these cricketers that they don't have the ability. It's true for some, but others just massively underperformed. It's just the way things went.

 

[Savak]

You will have to compare the performances of our batsmen and bowlers vs how the Indian/Sri lankan batsmen/bowlers did when they have toured South Africa recently. What is more shocking and unacceptable is the fact that Sri Lanka who were going through one of the worst phases in cricketing history under Dilshan's leadership registered a win in SA, Samaraweera scored 2 centuries. India had the advantage they had the experience of Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman but i think we have done the worst in South African conditions compared to those teams.

 

[Junaids]

How can you say we played to our potential when at our potential, all of these cricketers can do some serious damage? Just look at 3-0 against England. Hafeez was on fire in India, to the point where one of his innings was branded by Pak and Indian greats alike as one of the best one day innings they had ever seen. But Hafeez has some ridiculous mental block in test cricket, not to mention weakness against the moving ball.

Sarfraz was a poor selection and we knew before a ball was bowled.

Umer Gul has never done anything special and so it's not surprising he didn't deliver.

Ajmal showed his class in the second test, the other pitches did not assist him.

Rahat, Ehsan and Tanvir were poor selections.

So it's not the case for most of these cricketers that they don't have the ability. It's true for some, but others just massively underperformed. It's just the way things went.

But I think the output of those players matched their potential.

Hafeez is unsound against the moving ball and falls apart temperamentally. His failure was forseeable.

Sarfraz has never scored top level runs, and only got a few against the old ball in a dead rubber.

Umar Gul has shown an inability to learn.

Ajmal was ineffective at the two high bounce / high altitude venues, as all spinners are.

Rahat, Ehsan and Tanvir were poor selections.

But Azhar, Younis, Misbah, Shafiq, Irfan and Ajmal matched Smith, Peterson, Kallis, du Plessis, Elgar, R Peterson and Morkel.

And never, ever rely on Junaid Khan again until he has shown that he has the guts to battle pain and adversity against class opposition.

 

[Junaids]

You will have to compare the performances of our batsmen and bowlers vs how the Indian/Sri lankan batsmen/bowlers did when they have toured South Africa recently. What is more shocking and unacceptable is the fact that Sri Lanka who were going through one of the worst phases in cricketing history under Dilshan's leadership registered a win in SA, Samaraweera scored 2 centuries. India had the advantage they had the experience of Dravid, Tendulkar, Laxman but i think we have done the worst in South African conditions compared to those teams.

Sri Lanka and India got to play Tests at Durban, in Asian conditions of lower bounce and slower pace.

If Pakistan had kicked off the series at Durban after 3-4 First Class matches they might well have won there - and gone on to win at Cape Town.

They did fine at sea level (Cape Town), and the two Highveld high-altitude high-bounce high-pace matches were the killers.

 

[Wristy_Shuffler]

I'm not sure what you mean by underperform? I mean I don't think there's a clique in the team conspiring to play badly as a form of protest against the captain or anything Ala Younus/Yousuf 09/10. But I do think that the players didn't play as well as they could have given the right preparation. You can't expect someone like Rahat to come to South Africa two days before a Test and bowl to the best batting line up in the world and do even remoteley well. He was so under-cooked that whoever in the management called for him (Misbah and/or Whatmore, I'm assuming) has no right to use the 'under-cooked' excuse for the batting failures when they do the same to the bowlers.

And that's just one minor complaint, I could go on but it's all probably been covered somewhere in this thread.

 

[MJcricket]

You have to remember that this was a very ordinary Pakistani Test side: Week batting, talented but extremely inexperienced pace attack, one of the worst keepers in the world. I don't think anything unexpected happened in the series. For some reason, some of the fans were very optimistic about pakistani success in this series. In fact, the fans should be happy with the way Pak were able to make second test such a close game. I am sure in spite of the win, SA must have been very unhappy with their own performance after the second test.

 

[Usman]

But I think the output of those players matched their potential.

Hafeez is unsound against the moving ball and falls apart temperamentally. His failure was forseeable.

Sarfraz has never scored top level runs, and only got a few against the old ball in a dead rubber.

Umar Gul has shown an inability to learn.

Ajmal was ineffective at the two high bounce / high altitude venues, as all spinners are.

Rahat, Ehsan and Tanvir were poor selections.

But Azhar, Younis, Misbah, Shafiq, Irfan and Ajmal matched Smith, Peterson, Kallis, du Plessis, Elgar, R Peterson and Morkel.

And never, ever rely on Junaid Khan again until he has shown that he has the guts to battle pain and adversity against class opposition.

This was expected from Hafeez in my opinion, but no doubt he didn't play to his potential. A guy who batted so sensationally against the Indians cannot have lived up to his potential by scoring nothing here. And yes I realise there is a world of difference between the trundlers of India and the world class bowlers of SA. Nevertheless, if you have the ability displayed by Hafeez against India, you should be performing against any side. Hafeez has never lived up to this in his entire career.

Sarfraz, Gul, Tanvir, Rahat, Ehsan pretty much performed to their abilities, which are extremely limited.

Azhar and Misbah seriously underperformed and both are capable of 50 times better.

Even Younus, Asad and Ajmal underperformed but each had at least one outstanding moment.

Junaid performed when he played. But are you seriously suggesting he should have played despite serious injury? The best players around get injured now and again, give the kid some slack.

 

[Junaids]

Junaid performed when he played. But are you seriously suggesting he should have played despite serious injury? The best players around get injured now and again, give the kid some slack.

Junaid hasn't got a serious injury. He walked into a door and bruised his thigh.

No bone damage. No pulled or torn muscle. No ligament damage.

His coach said that he was fit for the Third Test, but he said he wasn't. And he remains in the squad for the T20 and ODI series because no-one can find an injury at all.

"The best players around" acquire that status because they would run through a brick wall to play the biggest matches. Junaid Khan should have been dreaming about bowling in South Africa since his last Test last July.

Why should I give him some "slack". He has given Pakistani supporters who were depending upon him plenty of reason to use the word "slack".

 

[Dark Magician]

Poor team selection and inabillity to change cost you. Its sad but true. As for the hate against Hafeez, i have said it plenty of times. he should bat at six after Misbah. if not he should not be playing as oppener. Clearly he thinks the glory is as oppener. As for your bowlers. Gul is the leader. How can he lead when he does not even have a five wicket haul in ages? whats hs strength? except for Junaid and Ajmal your bowling sucked and sucked badly. from that team id only take Ajmal. Your keeper was taken on stats and not on perfomance. he looked dreadful. As gmfor your selectors all should be fired. Clearly they lack common sense. Adil,Tanvir, Rahat, Safraz, Gul. The perfomance of this players is the reason you guys losed badly. Add also Hafeez. Jamshed i have the jurry on but i think he can play international cricket. until you guys acknowledge this problems, you wont win a single thing. As for Umar Akmal and Wahab Riaz. Hate them love them but you need them.

 

[Marshland]

Of course they didn't, nobody was expecting anything other than 3-zip to the South Africans.

 

[ahmed778]

I don't think Pakistan underperformed in South Africa at all. I think they performed precisely to their potential and ability, and in line with their lack of preparation.

A) Batting
Asad Shafiq, Younis Khan, Azhar Ali and Misbah-ul-Haq ended up scoring similar numbers of runs at similar averages to Graeme Smith, Alviro Peterson, Jacques Kallis, FAF du Plessis and Dean Elgar.

The only problems were that Hafeez and Jamshed were obliterated completely while Amla and de Villiers scored hundreds of runs.

But four of the six batsmen in the two sides were evenly matched in terms of performance.

B) Wicketkeeping
Here is a major gulf in class. Sarfraz and de Villiers were well-matched behind the stumps, but de Villiers scored 352 runs and Sarfraz scored just 83.

C) Bowling
This is the area where I blame the selectors.

Every fool knows that in South Africa you require 3-4 fast bowlers per match, including 1-2 who can bat proficiently.

Pakistan was always going to struggle without Amir and Asif, especially as it's becoming clearer that Umar Gul is a useful third seamer and that Junaid Khan cannot be relied upon when the going gets tough.

But the selectors didn't trust Irfan and their only back-up seamer was Ehsan Adil, which meant that Rahat and Tanvir had to be called up as reinforcements.

Quite why Wahab Riaz didn't get called up is a mystery. South Africa is the one place on earth where a 145K bowler who gets bounce but has dodgy direction is actually a huge asset and not a liability.

D) PCB failures
I have three questions for the PCB.

1) Why did they accept an itinerary with two tests in totally alien conditions at Johannesburg and Centurion when minimal research would show that Asian sides do best at Port Elizabeth and Durban?

2) Why did they send the team so late, with so little acclimatisation, and accept a single warm-up match on the slow, flat wicket by the seaside at East London immediately before a Test at high altitude at Johannesburg on the world's fastest, bounciest wicket? 49 all out was a totally predictable consequence.

3) Everyone knows that from overs 20-80 in South Africa batsmen can safely counter-attack against the old ball - even Saeed Ajmal, Tanvir Ahmed and Sarfraz Ahmed did so. So why wasn't Umar Akmal selected at number 6 and Kamran Akmal at number 7 to cash in?

All in all, terrible planning, terrible preparation, inappropriate selection.

Those are the causes of failure on this tour.

And if you want to know my "horses for courses" team that should have played right from the First Test in Johannesburg, well this is what I have learned after 4 First Class matches. If we'd arrived before the New Year and played 4 First Class games before the First Test, of course such wisdom after the fact would have been gleaned in enough time, and Hafeez, Umar Gul, Jamshed, Tanvir, Sarfraz and Junaid wouldn't have made fools of themselves on the big stage:

1. Azhar Ali
2. Imran Farhat
3. Younis Khan
4. Misbah-ul-Haq
5. Asad Shafiq
6. Umar Akmal
7. Kamran Akmal
8. Azhar Mahmood
9. Wahab Riaz
10. Saeed Ajmal
11. Junaid Khan or Mohammed Irfan

I would expect this side to be at least as good with the ball as the one which played, but I would expect a lot more runs from the openers and especially from numbers 7,8 and 9 in the batting order.

Kamran Akmal's inferior keeping wouldn't have been a problem, as Umar Gul, Junaid Khan, Tanvir Ahmed and Mohammad Irfan didn't get any edges anyway.

Oh my, you really are that dumb to believe he faked his injury.
Unbelievable.

 

[umerz]

I guess one thing which we are forgetting is that fact that Saeed Ajmal failed in two tests and performed exceptionally well in the 2nd test where other bowlers failed

 

[James]

Lack of preparation and one warm-up game was always going to lead to 0-3 when the other team is clearly better anyway. At least make an effort to bridge the gap. PCB has to accept responsibility or else in 6 years we'll be sat here after another dismal tour having the same conversation. If there's one game you have to take seriously to succeed in, it's test cricket.

 

[Looney]

People working for PCB are getting free money basically .

 

[Dr_Bassim]

A team that has two Akmals , who can't even bat properly for more than 30 minutes is not a good test team.

I might be willing to give some slack to U. Akmal but to say that Kamran Akmal should be brought back is horrifying.

The guy has dropped so many catches I have lost count.


Junaids, you have a knack for knee jerk threads. I am sure you were one of those who was probably hoping that he gets kicked out of the side after horrifying performances everwhere.

Now it's garlanding and flowers again to the most miserable creature on earth.


As for Sir Imran Lara. It took 10 years to convince everyone that he is a perennial loser. He will always fail when the going gets tough.

And in 12 years he has managed to prove to you, he should be opener again.

Brilliant analysis.


In your quest to try to find attacking players you have stuck with tried and tested failures.


" One form of insanity, to keep trying the same thing over and over again and expect different results" .

 

[Varun]

^This guy speaks sense.

 

[Usman]

Junaid hasn't got a serious injury. He walked into a door and bruised his thigh.

No bone damage. No pulled or torn muscle. No ligament damage.

His coach said that he was fit for the Third Test, but he said he wasn't. And he remains in the squad for the T20 and ODI series because no-one can find an injury at all.

"The best players around" acquire that status because they would run through a brick wall to play the biggest matches. Junaid Khan should have been dreaming about bowling in South Africa since his last Test last July.

Why should I give him some "slack". He has given Pakistani supporters who were depending upon him plenty of reason to use the word "slack".

Are you his personal physician, Dr Junaids? How on earth have you come to all these conclusions? I have not seen any evidence for 1) Junaid walking into a door, 2) no damage to bone, muscle or ligament, 3) the coach saying he was fit for the 3rd match (the only suggestion was that he would begin practice before the third match and it was hoped he would be fit), 4) the fact that no-one can find an injury at all.

Plead provide evidence of each of the above.

The fact is that if you physically cannot run in at 100%, you are most of the time a liability for the team rather than an asset, especially in tests.

 

[Junaids]

Are you his personal physician, Dr Junaids? How on earth have you come to all these conclusions? I have not seen any evidence for 1) Junaid walking into a door, 2) no damage to bone, muscle or ligament, 3) the coach saying he was fit for the 3rd match (the only suggestion was that he would begin practice before the third match and it was hoped he would be fit), 4) the fact that no-one can find an injury at all.

Plead provide evidence of each of the above.

The fact is that if you physically cannot run in at 100%, you are most of the time a liability for the team rather than an asset, especially in tests.

May I draw your attention to the crucial Second Test in the West Indies in 1987-88? I judge Junaid Khan against how his predecessors acquitted themselves in the toughest battles.

Wasim Akram had ruptured his groin in his first spell in the First Innings, but Imran Khan knew that the only penetrative bowlers were himself, Wasim and Qadir.

Junaid Khan would presumably be dead and buried, lying in his coffin at this point.

But Wasim spent the rest of the Test match bowling off five paces, and had figures of:

First Innings: 14-4-35-2 (dismissed Des Haynes and Richie Richardson)
Second Innings: 25-4-75-1 (dismissed Sir Vivian Richards).

It was an incredible act of bravery and guts that very nearly delivered an historic series victory to Pakistan. And at the time Wasim Akram had only taken 66 wickets in 23 Test matches, and he was roughly the same age Junaid is today.

But Wasim wasn't done.

Three days later he defied medical orders and played in the decisive Third Test, again bowling quick off five paces. His figures were:

First Innings: 27-1-88-3 (dismissed Richardson, Hooper and Richards - the entire middle-order)
Second Innings: 31-7-73-4 (dismissed Haynes, Richards, Marshall and Ambrose)

That's why I share Justice Qayyum's "soft corner" for Wasim Akram. He earned my forgiveness and gratitude by bowling incredible spells against the world's best team away from home while carrying a crippling injury.

And that's why I am so incredibly angry towards Junaid Khan currently.

Mohammed Amir, Wahab Riaz, Mohammed Irfan and Junaid Khan are Wasim Akram's successors.

And Amir is to me the only one fit to polish Wasim Akram's boots. Riaz and Irfan are flawed, but at least they try. I don't have words to discuss Junaid's behaviour.

Wasim Akram saw a series against the best team in hostile conditions as an opportunity, a chance to make his name. And he seized it with both hands. Junaid Khan took 2 wickets at 48 in one Test, backed away from the bowlers like a coward, then skipped the final two Tests.

 

[liaqat]

yes we failed to prepare and we failed missrably ,

obvious defect's gul's bowling lacked any real venom, when he got the edge's they where dropped,

ajmal one man show can win match's everytime,

3rd test the tail makes almost 100 runs with safraz, useless runs and the tail seems to all of a sudden know how to swing the bat ,

those runs where needed in the 2nd test and we would have won the game,
hafeez should be batted at number 5-6 where he will most likely score runs,

and bowling well it lacked experience so don't expect them to run through the best batting line up but they didnt do to bad,

 

[liaqat]

this junaid barrage is ridiculous, ,,,, our batsmen failed us again and again so don't blame junaid,

yes his injury hasn't been cleared up but im sure misbah and watmore wouldn't allow such behavior,


surely they must have seen him unfit to play

 

[Junaids]

As for Sir Imran Lara. It took 10 years to convince everyone that he is a perennial loser. He will always fail when the going gets tough.

And in 12 years he has managed to prove to you, he should be opener again.

" One form of insanity, to keep trying the same thing over and over again and expect different results" .

I believe in horses for courses, have ever since David Steel tamed Lillee, Thomson and the West Indies.

Some very good batsmen from the subcontinent can't survive elsewhere. And some pretty two-dimensional batsmen (Salman Butt) do brilliantly in Australia or South Africa.

If you read my posts, I wouldn't even have Imran Farhat in my squad in Asia.

But I wrote six weeks ago that the key to success in South Africa for Pakistan was to turn up there at a posh private school in the Cape in its summer holidays around six weeks before the First Test (mid-December) with both the A squad and the B squad - i.e. the 30 best players - and play against themselves in 3 x 3 day matches from around 20 December to 5 January. The team could have boarded in the students' accommodation, and the cost would have been minimal.

At that point, the twelve players least likely to succeed on the evidence of their performances in South African conditions should have been sent home. We now know that Mohammed Hafeez, Taufeeq Umar, Sarfraz Ahmed, Tanvir Ahmed and Rahat Ali would have departed at that point.

That would have left Pakistan on 5 January with 18 players who had been performing in local conditions and who had acclimatised to the bounce and pace.

I would then have had them play three First Class matches against South African sides at high altitude on the Highveldt where the Johannesburg and Centurion Tests were to be played.

Even now, at the end of the series, Younis Khan, Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq have still only played 4 First Class matches and had 8 innings in South Africa.

With my model, there would have been no ODIs in India, but each batsmen and bowler selected for the First Test would have had 12 innings in South Africa before the series started. In contrast with the 2 innings they had actually had prior to 49 all out.

 

[Junaids]

As for Sir Imran Lara. It took 10 years to convince everyone that he is a perennial loser. He will always fail when the going gets tough.

And in 12 years he has managed to prove to you, he should be opener again.

" One form of insanity, to keep trying the same thing over and over again and expect different results" .

I believe in horses for courses, have ever since David Steele tamed Lillee, Thomson and the West Indies.

Some very good batsmen from the subcontinent can't survive elsewhere. And some pretty two-dimensional batsmen (Salman Butt) do brilliantly in Australia or South Africa.

If you read my posts, I wouldn't even have Imran Farhat in my squad in Asia.

But I wrote six weeks ago that the key to success in South Africa for Pakistan was to turn up there at a posh private school in the Cape in its summer holidays around six weeks before the First Test (mid-December) with both the A squad and the B squad - i.e. the 30 best players - and play against themselves in 3 x 3 day matches from around 20 December to 5 January. The team could have boarded in the students' accommodation, and the cost would have been minimal.

At that point, the twelve players least likely to succeed on the evidence of their performances in South African conditions should have been sent home. We now know that Mohammed Hafeez, Taufeeq Umar, Sarfraz Ahmed, Tanvir Ahmed and Rahat Ali would have departed at that point.

That would have left Pakistan on 5 January with 18 players who had been performing in local conditions and who had acclimatised to the bounce and pace.

I would then have had them play three First Class matches against South African sides at high altitude on the Highveldt where the Johannesburg and Centurion Tests were to be played.

Even now, at the end of the series, Younis Khan, Azhar Ali and Asad Shafiq have still only played 4 First Class matches and had 8 innings in South Africa.

With my model, there would have been no ODIs in India, but each batsmen and bowler selected for the First Test would have had 12 innings in South Africa before the series started. In contrast with the 2 innings they had actually had prior to 49 all out.

I don't understand why everyone ignored last year's 99 all out v England at Dubai. The warning signs were already there. This is a decent Pakistan team, but to win in South Africa it needed to be brilliantly prepared. Not unprepared.

 

[ahmed778]

May I draw your attention to the crucial Second Test in the West Indies in 1987-88? I judge Junaid Khan against how his predecessors acquitted themselves in the toughest battles.

Wasim Akram had ruptured his groin in his first spell in the First Innings, but Imran Khan knew that the only penetrative bowlers were himself, Wasim and Qadir.

Junaid Khan would presumably be dead and buried, lying in his coffin at this point.

But Wasim spent the rest of the Test match bowling off five paces, and had figures of:

First Innings: 14-4-35-2 (dismissed Des Haynes and Richie Richardson)
Second Innings: 25-4-75-1 (dismissed Sir Vivian Richards).

It was an incredible act of bravery and guts that very nearly delivered an historic series victory to Pakistan. And at the time Wasim Akram had only taken 66 wickets in 23 Test matches, and he was roughly the same age Junaid is today.

But Wasim wasn't done.

Three days later he defied medical orders and played in the decisive Third Test, again bowling quick off five paces. His figures were:

First Innings: 27-1-88-3 (dismissed Richardson, Hooper and Richards - the entire middle-order)
Second Innings: 31-7-73-4 (dismissed Haynes, Richards, Marshall and Ambrose)

That's why I share Justice Qayyum's "soft corner" for Wasim Akram. He earned my forgiveness and gratitude by bowling incredible spells against the world's best team away from home while carrying a crippling injury.

And that's why I am so incredibly angry towards Junaid Khan currently.

Mohammed Amir, Wahab Riaz, Mohammed Irfan and Junaid Khan are Wasim Akram's successors.

And Amir is to me the only one fit to polish Wasim Akram's boots. Riaz and Irfan are flawed, but at least they try. I don't have words to discuss Junaid's behaviour.

Wasim Akram saw a series against the best team in hostile conditions as an opportunity, a chance to make his name. And he seized it with both hands. Junaid Khan took 2 wickets at 48 in one Test, backed away from the bowlers like a coward, then skipped the final two Tests.

Have you try bowling with no skin on your thigh?
The fact is if Junaid wasn't 100% fit and didn't participate in the training he could not have had been considered for Selection him wanting to play shouldn't have had mattered because the Coach and The manager know that if they play him when he is injured it could lead to something more serious thus they would've decided not to take the risk to play their most performing seamer.
The fact is you have absolutely no evidence to back any of your claims, and at the moment with each of your post you are looking like an idiot.
And yes that coward did bowl 29 overs on a road at the SSC in the summer heat of SL and even took 5 wickets.

 

[hhhhdmt]

yet another comical thread. How do you know Junaid did not have a serious injury? Junaid is not a coward. Defending convicted cheats like Asif and Amir is acceptable according to you, and you try to attack decent honest players who are playing for pak.

Wasim Akram had no problem pulling out of 1996 qf vs india, guess he is a coward too, right? You have no evidence to back up your claims. Stop accusing a player of being a coward and a fake when you have no evidence to back up such nonsense.

 

[saiyan0312]

Wasim Akram had no problem pulling out of 1996 qf vs india, guess he is a coward too, right? You have no evidence to back up your claims. Stop accusing a player of being a coward and a fake when you have no evidence to back up such nonsense.

OR waqar younis not playing the 1992 world cup... guess he was scared of :gooch

 

[saiyan0312]

the fact of the matter is that this thread will look awfully stupid if junaid plays the ODI... bcz if you are a coward then you pull out for all the tour not just the tests.

 

[hhhhdmt]

this thread already looks stupid.

 

[Executioner]

I personally think that 3-0 whitewash was on the cards

 

[MJcricket]

OR waqar younis not playing the 1992 world cup... guess he was scared of :gooch

Or Akram 1996 QF

 

[Safar55]

while i can't categorically accuse Junaid of feigning injury... but the question is a legitimate one.

What exactly happened between Junaid and the door? How can you be injured by a door? and what exactly is the nature of the injury?

I'm not sure there is a good reason why he would back out from playing the 2nd and 3rd tests, he mus have at least thought they would be good bowling conditions so good for him to bowl in. So really, the question is just regarding the nature of his injury and how it happened. I don't think he is that frightened of bowling...

I do agree however, he was a disgrace with the bat. To make it clear, I don't think anyone expects him to score lots of runs. To be honest, I wouldn't even mention him negitively if he went on on a duck if he tried batting, instead of running away to the leg side. Just look at the difference the SA tail made in 3rd test (they were 135-5) and 2nd test. OK, they have better ability batting but don't just run away and gift your wicket. At least make a game of it, you are playing international cricket for your country - you shouldn't be doing that sort of thing. Morkel had Junaid bowled but had overstepped. Junaid has potential, but he certainly needs to step up when facing the best.

 

[ahmed778]

while i can't categorically accuse Junaid of feigning injury... but the question is a legitimate one.

What exactly happened between Junaid and the door? How can you be injured by a door? and what exactly is the nature of the injury?

I'm not sure there is a good reason why he would back out from playing the 2nd and 3rd tests, he mus have at least thought they would be good bowling conditions so good for him to bowl in. So really, the question is just regarding the nature of his injury and how it happened. I don't think he is that frightened of bowling...

I do agree however, he was a disgrace with the bat. To make it clear, I don't think anyone expects him to score lots of runs. To be honest, I wouldn't even mention him negitively if he went on on a duck if he tried batting, instead of running away to the leg side. Just look at the difference the SA tail made in 3rd test (they were 135-5) and 2nd test. OK, they have better ability batting but don't just run away and gift your wicket. At least make a game of it, you are playing international cricket for your country - you shouldn't be doing that sort of thing. Morkel had Junaid bowled but had overstepped. Junaid has potential, but he certainly needs to step up when facing the best.

He was running and the handle of the door hit his leg and scraped off some skin of his thigh.

 

[Usman]

May I draw your attention to the crucial Second Test in the West Indies in 1987-88? I judge Junaid Khan against how his predecessors acquitted themselves in the toughest battles.

Wasim Akram had ruptured his groin in his first spell in the First Innings, but Imran Khan knew that the only penetrative bowlers were himself, Wasim and Qadir.

Junaid Khan would presumably be dead and buried, lying in his coffin at this point.

But Wasim spent the rest of the Test match bowling off five paces, and had figures of:

First Innings: 14-4-35-2 (dismissed Des Haynes and Richie Richardson)
Second Innings: 25-4-75-1 (dismissed Sir Vivian Richards).

It was an incredible act of bravery and guts that very nearly delivered an historic series victory to Pakistan. And at the time Wasim Akram had only taken 66 wickets in 23 Test matches, and he was roughly the same age Junaid is today.

But Wasim wasn't done.

Three days later he defied medical orders and played in the decisive Third Test, again bowling quick off five paces. His figures were:

First Innings: 27-1-88-3 (dismissed Richardson, Hooper and Richards - the entire middle-order)
Second Innings: 31-7-73-4 (dismissed Haynes, Richards, Marshall and Ambrose)

That's why I share Justice Qayyum's "soft corner" for Wasim Akram. He earned my forgiveness and gratitude by bowling incredible spells against the world's best team away from home while carrying a crippling injury.

And that's why I am so incredibly angry towards Junaid Khan currently.

Mohammed Amir, Wahab Riaz, Mohammed Irfan and Junaid Khan are Wasim Akram's successors.

And Amir is to me the only one fit to polish Wasim Akram's boots. Riaz and Irfan are flawed, but at least they try. I don't have words to discuss Junaid's behaviour.

Wasim Akram saw a series against the best team in hostile conditions as an opportunity, a chance to make his name. And he seized it with both hands. Junaid Khan took 2 wickets at 48 in one Test, backed away from the bowlers like a coward, then skipped the final two Tests.

This is going from silly to downright absurd. Wasim played in a couple of games through injury = anyone who doesn't do that is a coward and deserves to be exiled. Bowling whilst not fit is in fact unfair on the team and on yourself. You cannot be mad at someone simply because they had the misfortune of getting injured.

To add some extra spice of madness, you say - it doesn't matter if Wasim threw countless games away because he bowled through pain! Junaid should follow this example. - This a frankly pathetic. If representing Pakistan meant that much to Wasim, then why did he allegedly throw away games? At least Junaid is earning an honest living.

 

[biophysics]

Agreed that I don't think we underachieved. I don't really think the bating underperformed. Not disappointed with anyone. Only change for future should be hafeez out for taufeeq.

Historically we have won outside of the subcontinent due to our bowling, specifically fast bowling. We usually come away with one test match due to this. This is why junaids injury ws massive. We need one more fast bowler. Junaid is there, irfan is a third pacer- too inconsistent like gul. We need someone to pair with junaid. Don't have that person yet but patience is required imran khan, asif, Amir, all struggled initially.

Rabat showed potential and deserves another series at least.

For wicketkeepinf, sarfraz deserves another series as well. Would have him in tests, and umar akmal in loi and keep competition between these two.

he showed some fight but guy is just too nervous. I can see him improving, and he has played some decent innings including Asia cup final under pressure. If he fails, I would give gloves to umar akmal, this would free him from batting responsibility and actually give him free license to add useful runs with the lower order.

 

[biophysics]

Totally agree that playing tests in south Africa after a 7 month break is a travesty by the PCB. You can't expect to be competitive that way. A zimbabwe tour before would have been massive in this regard. This cannot happen in the future. It shows lack of emphasis on test cricket and too much emphasis on relations with India.

India an other countries won't take us seriously until we take our test cricket seriously. You will have teams lining up to play us if we are number one in tests. Until then, we will keep having to chase after India. Sadly PCB only sees the dollar signs and not the long term vision of Pam cricket.

SL cricket is plagued by similar mentality of chasing easy bcci dollars instead of developing their own test cricket.

 

[biophysics]

Should have had atleat 2 or maybe 3 prep games before you starts tests as well

 

[biophysics]

Taufeeq and junaid losses were massive when looking back. Ideal conditions for both were present.

WI test series:

Taufeeq
Jamshed
Azhar
Younis
Misbah
Shafiq
Sarfraz
Gul/irfan/ rehman- third pacer or second spinner
Junaid
Rahat/other
Ajmal


No one really underperformed in south Africa, except the openers. Shafiq, misbah, younis played decently. Azhar, hafeez, jamshed underperformed. 2 are young and should be persisted with. Hafeez should be loi only

 

[Leeon1994]

Taufeeq and junaid losses were massive when looking back. Ideal conditions for both were present.

WI test series:

Taufeeq
Jamshed
Azhar
Younis
Misbah
Shafiq
Sarfraz
Gul/irfan/ rehman- third pacer or second spinner
Junaid
Rahat/other
Ajmal


No one really underperformed in south Africa, except the openers. Shafiq, misbah, younis played decently. Azhar, hafeez, jamshed underperformed. 2 are young and should be persisted with. Hafeez should be loi only

Irfan should be our 2nd choice rather than a 3rd. Gul is performing more like a 3rd these days and Rahat is inconsistent.

 

[Abid Z]

Sri Lanka and India got to play Tests at Durban, in Asian conditions of lower bounce and slower pace.

If Pakistan had kicked off the series at Durban after 3-4 First Class matches they might well have won there - and gone on to win at Cape Town.

They did fine at sea level (Cape Town), and the two Highveld high-altitude high-bounce high-pace matches were the killers.

i think in fairness the Indian one day series was a bit of a curve ball and messed up some of the plans. Had it not arrived pak team would have gone to Zimbabwe in Dec and then had enough time to acclimatize and played some other local teams.

the fact that the Indian series came up they juggled with their plans and things got a little messed up. Plus they have had so many changes in the administrators and coaches and talk of PSL etc that they have suffered as a consequence.

 

[srh]

Asad Shafiq, Younis Khan, Azhar Ali and Misbah-ul-Haq ended up scoring similar numbers of runs at similar averages to Graeme Smith, Alviro Peterson, Jacques Kallis, FAF du Plessis and Dean Elgar.

This is not true.
* Asad Shafiq scored 199 runs and YK scored 184 runs. The South African batsmen you mentioned above do not come even close to those runs (Graeme Smith was highest with 129 runs).
* Asad Shafiq averaged 33.16 and YK averaged 30.66. The South African batsmen you mentioned above were quite below those averages (FAF du Plessis was highest with 28.25).

 

[Monsee]

The whole reason for starting this thread seems to be just one i.e. Juanids PPer can make fun/humiliate his namesake!

Nothing more and nothing less

 

[Chokli]

some things never change

 

[ManFan]

some things never change

The more things change, the more they stay the same.