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ICC T20 World Cup 2022 | Pakistan v England | Final | MCG | 13 Nov | Pre-match Discussion

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MenInG

MenInG

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So, it's happening!

Pakistan are in a World Cup final after many years and whilst the road to this stage has been far from ideal, Babar Azam and Co have a chance at making history.

Will they change their side? Or is the winning combination against NZ the best way forward?

After the NZ game, is there any sense in changing the batting order or will it be a different one depending on the situation and possibly the weather.


NV8kQfR.png
 
If it's a shortened game, it's not a bad idea to replace Shan with Asif Ali.

Other than that, the team is peaking at the right time and InshaAllah, we are winning that trophy.
 
Hope weather doesn't spoil the party, but if it becomes a 10-over match, then bringing in Asif Ali might make sense.
 
India has reached final twice Won once lost once
Pakistan has reached final twice won once lost once
England has reached final twice won once lost once

One is guaranteed to improve that stat
 
Yes it will be the clash of Titans either Ind vs Pak which is bigger than El Classico or Pak vs Eng, coul be like Barca v Che

Whatever happens Pakistan has alot of arch rivalry with both of them
 
Surely for the finals arrangements should have been made for a secondary day?

Weather looks really bad.
 
things are not good weather wise. rain and thunder on sunday and rain on reserve day also. dont want this to be a 10 or 5 over match. needs to be 15 to 20 over match. sunday its 80% rain, monday 90%.
wonder if it would be possible for ICC to see if they are okay to play on saturday perhaps.
if no full game it will be a shared trophy i believe.
 
mon858 said:
things are not good weather wise. rain and thunder on sunday and rain on reserve day also. dont want this to be a 10 or 5 over match. needs to be 15 to 20 over match. sunday its 80% rain, monday 90%.
wonder if it would be possible for ICC to see if they are okay to play on saturday perhaps.
if no full game it will be a shared trophy i believe.
Click to expand...

Today is the beginning of thursday
Melbourne weather changes very quickly,

We can not have clear picture until saturday night.
 
If Rain falls on both days , and game is not possible , both finalists will be joint winners.
 
Drumroll…!

Hopefully a Pakistan v England final.
 
Can’t they just play the final on Saturday?

Surely better sense prevails and Sunday can be the rain day if needed?
 
Rana said:
Can’t they just play the final on Saturday?

Surely better sense prevails and Sunday can be the rain day if needed?
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Come on Rizwan! Why didn’t you think this through?!
 
The master game plan remains same. The XI remains same. The situation gets tricky if Pakistan bats first. The game plan should not change and neither should the approach of the batsmen. If we end up batting first our authoritative cricket should be at display.
 
Extra_Cover said:
The master game plan remains same. The XI remains same. The situation gets tricky if Pakistan bats first. The game plan should not change and neither should the approach of the batsmen. If we end up batting first our authoritative cricket should be at display.
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If the match goes ahead batting 1st will need 170
 
Pakistan absolutely have to play Hasnain over M Waseem in the T20 WC Final

Trust me on this.

Waseem was incredibly lucky Vs NZ. He bowled a couple of full tosses and half volleys that a batsman who was not crumbling under pressure like NZ’s would’ve put away for 4s and 6s.

He always looks 1-2 deliveries away from getting smashed out of the attack, and his only real strength is Yorkers (which he didn’t even nail consistently in the semis and served up full tosses), which is not enough Vs England or Kohli and SKY.

SKY isn’t particularly great against pure short pitched FAST bowling. Look at how Haris got him. Now imagine having 2 guys like that.

Hasnain had more tools, is faster, and is not as predictable as Waseem.

It doesn’t matter if he hasn’t played the tournament so far. M Haris was drafted it in late, Shaheen hadn’t played a game for months. Pakistanis thrive under the occasion of coming to the party late in tournaments. Hasnain has been performing well on tracks less helpful than Australian tracks. MCG will definitely have something for guys like him, Rauf and Shaheen.

Not to mention this guy plays in the BBL!! Having 2 bowlers, both with experience at the MCG and in Australia as a whole over the last few years is huge.

If Babar pulls the trigger on this decision, it could truly be a game changer.
 
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absolutely NOT. Same team need to play. Waseem is a smart bowler I should say WAYYY smarter than hasnain or any bowler on bench.
 
They’re going to be reluctant to change a winning team but it does look like Waseem is a passenger in the side. Maybe he might be a handy batsman down the order - I cannot say as there has been no evidence of it so far.
 
shane said:
They’re going to be reluctant to change a winning team but it does look like Waseem is a passenger in the side. Maybe he might be a handy batsman down the order - I cannot say as there has been no evidence of it so far.
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He’s lucky to not have been taken on yet. IMO he cashes in on the pressure accumulated by the other bowlers.

SA and NZ were both under pressure so failed to target anyone. But a strong lineup like England or India is going to look to target him first because there’s not enough venom in his bowling.

I understand there may not be enough empirical evidence as of yet, but from what we’ve all seen so far, he may be on the verge of receiving a phainty.
 
India is not beating England. Pakistan should worry about how they will bowl to an explosive team like England.
 
Suleiman said:
He’s lucky to not have been taken on yet. IMO he cashes in on the pressure accumulated by the other bowlers.

SA and NZ were both under pressure so failed to target anyone. But a strong lineup like England or India is going to look to target him first because there’s not enough venom in his bowling.

I understand there may not be enough empirical evidence as of yet, but from what we’ve all seen so far, he may be on the verge of receiving a phainty.
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How SA was under pressure? When pak played SA they were unbeaten. not sure which games you been watching but Waseem has been absolutely spot on with his yorkers, any bowler can leak runs with a few off deliveries. And no he is not lucky he been bowling good bowling
 
Plumb said:
How SA was under pressure? When pak played SA they were unbeaten. not sure which games you been watching but Waseem has been absolutely spot on with his yorkers, any bowler can leak runs with a few off deliveries. And no he is not lucky he been bowling good bowling
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You’re joking right? SA was under crazy pressure because of the onslaught carried out by Haris, Shadab and Iftikhar. They were also dropping catches and misfielding because they thought Pak would roll over with ease and they expected it to be a cake walk thinking they had one foot in the semis. Instead Pak destroyed their best bowler from the world go and they were playing catch up since. Go through the highlights of that game and you’ll see what I mean.

Time will tell about Waseem. But instinct says to bench him for this one
 
Hasnain is a mediocre bowler who will amount to nothing. Waseem is a decent bowler who can bowl Yorkers and generally uses his brain well.
 
I will definitely keep Wasim Jr. in the playing squad - NOT because he is a lot better bowler than Hasnain (both are almost the same) - but more importantly is that Wasim can smack a few powerful blows with the bat in the tail end.

Hasnain is a single pasli type lower order batsman who doesn't have enough energy and power to hit a few sixes in the end. Wasim can.
 
The only change I would like to have is Shan Masood.

He is a walking wicket against good bowling. He was almost clean bowled when the ball missed the leg stump by a millimeter and went for four byes in the semi.
Fazool and ghattiya tareen batting technique.

We need to gamble with Haider Ali instead of Shan Masood and our chances are better that we will get a 20 odd extra runs.
 
Colorblind Genius said:
The only change I would like to have is Shan Masood.

He is a walking wicket against good bowling. He was almost clean bowled when the ball missed the leg stump by a millimeter and went for four byes in the semi.
Fazool and ghattiya tareen batting technique.

We need to gamble with Haider Ali instead of Shan Masood and our chances are better that we will get a 20 odd extra runs.
Click to expand...

I agree with Shan being redundant now that Rizwan and Babar are back in form. Shan is good Vs spin only, and this was the last game where he’d be useful.

If we have to chase 180+ he’s useless.

As far as Waseem’s batting goes, IMO Shaheen, Haris and Naseem are good enough to smack a few at the end nor is Waseem that good with the bat to make a difference.

But I genuinely believe Hasnain could be a trump card especially if we play him Vs India who are yet to face him in Australia and so would not be a 100% confident Vs his bowling because there’s not much to analyze.

They haven’t faced Waseem either yet, but would have seen enough of him in the tournament to know how to target him.
 
Colorblind Genius said:
I will definitely keep Wasim Jr. in the playing squad - NOT because he is a lot better bowler than Hasnain (both are almost the same) - but more importantly is that Wasim can smack a few powerful blows with the bat in the tail end.

Hasnain is a single pasli type lower order batsman who doesn't have enough energy and power to hit a few sixes in the end. Wasim can.
Click to expand...

Wasim Jr was hitting air against Zimbos. He's no batsman. But he was able to nail yorkers consistently whenever he bowled. He will go for runs but then he can also pick wickets.
 
Bilal7 said:
If it's a shortened game, it's not a bad idea to replace Shan with Asif Ali.

Other than that, the team is peaking at the right time and InshaAllah, we are winning that trophy.
Click to expand...


Shan is our WEAKEST link in the team against good bowling attacks.

I will replace Shan one way or the other - and give Haider Ali a chance or even Asif could be a good gamble. But no Shan Masood.
 
Colorblind Genius said:
Shan is our WEAKEST link in the team against good bowling attacks.

I will replace Shan one way or the other - and give Haider Ali a chance or even Asif could be a good gamble. But no Shan Masood.
Click to expand...

In a final?

Shan has played some assured innings so far and we need that in tight chases.

I expect no change.
 
A very happy Pakistan squad on their way to Melbourne for the final of the ICC T20 World Cup (Pictures courtesy of PCB) - Who will be their opponents?

FhLFgTYXkAEsWfd.jpgFhLFgSxXgAEgMoY.jpgFhLFgSPXgAErn3E.jpgFhLFgRUWIAEAsWT.jpg
 
Yes Shan Masood is a waste of space the role he is being assigned is Iftikhar already is in that mold and add to it he is an allrounder and can use long handle so no benefit of it, infact if Rizwan can continue with his aggressive intent then Babar can even fi in that Shan role, if Babar dont go aerial then he is untouchable. But i dont think they will change it
 
Once again Pakistan fans showing their incredible IQ by dropping key players from the team.

Haider Ali to be brought back? Hasnain to be picked despite warming the bench whole tournament?

Never change you teenagers :))
 
It's probably best not to make changes for the final now unless something drastic happens. Whilst the call to bring in Hasnain is one I like too frankly Wasim Jr hasn't done anything to deserve being dropped.

Unchanged side for me unless something dramatic happens.
 
Usman Chadda said:
Once again Pakistan fans showing their incredible IQ by dropping key players from the team.

Haider Ali to be brought back? Hasnain to be picked despite warming the bench whole tournament?

Never change you teenagers :))
Click to expand...

M Haris came in after sitting on the bench for a month and a half.

Winning games doesn’t mean that the current XI can’t be improved.
 
MenInG said:
In a final?

Shan has played some assured innings so far and we need that in tight chases.

I expect no change.
Click to expand...


Oh yeah, I expect no changes either.

We are simply analyzing the situation and muu ka maza lenay k liye, voicing our opinions to engage is a spicy dialogue.

I say Shan is the weakest link because his probability of batting good against good team is almost zero. He is simply not a batsman who has the technique, power, skill, passion and fire in the belly, to be able to play in high octane T20 format - against good bowling units.

I think it was a blessing in disguise that Fakhar got injured and now we have Haris at # 3.

This gives us the option to hide Shan Masood somewhere in the middle order - otherwise, think about it, why is Haris placed on # 3 if Shan is so good? Why we require a dashing batsman in the most important spot in the batting line WHEN WE ALREADY HAD SHAN Sitting there at 3? Is Shan the same kind of batsman as Haris? If not, why did we have Shan at no 3, and why now we are replacing this spot?
 
Due to weather scenario, I think winning the toss would be crucial in the final and it would be better to field first. DLS could come into play and with good Pakistani bowling in 1st innings target could be simplified more in 2nd innings. In case of bowling first, we will need to restrict them especially if it is England they will come hard batting first.
 
Few things to remember related to weather. The minimum overs that need to be bowled in the final are 10 overs per innings the match can not be shorter than that. If toss happens on first day and it is reduced overs then fielding second would be crucial. I have a feeling due to weather match would be completed on Monday but it would be interesting to see if there is toss or some play on Sunday. Remember the match will restart from same point on Monday where they left off on Sunday. In this kind of scenario, team batting second would be comfortable.
 
Only if Sunday is washed out completely and match goes to Monday, the forecast seems much better for that day. In case of toss on Monday, team batting first will need to handle some moisture on the pitch but overall in this scenario batting first will also be fine as template for scoring in Melbourne has been to save wickets upfront and attack in latter 10 overs of the innings.
 
Suleiman said:
M Haris came in after sitting on the bench for a month and a half.

Winning games doesn’t mean that the current XI can’t be improved.
Click to expand...
Haris is an unknown commodity in international cricket, and he is fulfilling a specific role which was much needed.

Hasnain over Wasim makes no sense at this stage, when we already have two new ball bowlers doing well. Hasnain’s utility is in the initial overs when the ball is shaping away, he is not as smart as Wasim as at the death.

Also, please explain the rationale of including Haider Ali in the playing eleven, when he cannot buy a run at all at this point.
 
So do we change our bowling attack to take on England?
 
Should be the same team for Pak.

It might essentially be Pak's bowling vs Eng's batting that will decide the final.
 
MenInG said:
So do we change our bowling attack to take on England?
Click to expand...

No we have the correct bowling attack and no need to make changes. Batting is also fine. Pakistan needs to go with the same team. They have the best shot in the final.
 
Nothing went wrong. Everything went according to the prediction. This is something i talked about even before the match. It is not rocket science to predict how this team would fare on a flat pitch. They rely on swing. This bowling attack is more suitable for English conditions no Australian conditions
 
I can't believe that some of you guys here are suggesting a change in the line-up for the finals. 😂
 
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England have a scary batting line up and this match will be decided in the first 6 overs of England innings simple needs to take 3 wickets in first 6 overs for pakistan ti make a game out of this
 
Lol at the bashing of Shan Masood and Wasim.

Both should play in the final for sure. Both have significantly contributed to the team throughout the tournament and have been good performers thus far.

Wasim is a fast bowler - I think he's bowled around 145 kph during this tournament. And that's our fourth pacer. That's damn impressive. He's been economical and picked up wickets.

Shan meanwhile is a calm head that our panicky team needs at times. I expect Shan to be included in our ODI squad going forward, along with our test team. He's become a very solid batsman.
 
For a WC final, nothing will do except a 20ov match with maybe at most a couple of overs lost.
 
Bigger boundaries mat help Pak here when Eng start launching into the sky.
 
Asif Ali has played worse than a tailender in recent times and has been useless. Same goes for Khushdil, who thinks a T20 innings should be played like a test match. Sorry fellas, but you guys don't deserve a place in the starting 11. Thank God Pakistan finally got their team selection right - from this squad at least.
 
Two teams who were playing in a 7 match T20 series before the World Cup have qualified for the finals. :inti
 
Will be a special free to air broadcast on Channel 4 for UK viewers !
 
England have better batting.
Pakistan have better bowling.

I say it is 50-50. Pakistan are probably slightly favorites due to momentum.
 
** BOOK MARK THIS POST **

What is going to be THE MAJOR PLOY of English bowlers against Pak batsmen?

** SHORT AND RISING BALLS **

And the last thing I wanna see is Pak batsmen getting caught off guard.

Our Think Tank MUST figure this out and take a proactive approach to get the batsmen physically and mentally prepared to handle the short balls - otherwise, we will fall like flies.

This is England's very old trick that has been especially effective against Pak, but we NEVER took any proactive or reaction action against it to counter the issue.


@Saj
If you can, pass it on to the team management.
 
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Forecast for monday from 2nd half is quite brilliant. Definitely a full game on Monday.

Sunday, yeah, doesn't look good for a full game.

It should be a tight contest, for England I fear law of averages will catch up with Hales-Buttler partnership. Still they gave an explosive middle order. It will ve England's explosive batting V Pakistan's formidable bowling that will decide the match.
 
Hard not to think Shaheen & Naseem will need to be difference makers if Pakistan are to win. IIRC, Naseem only played 1 match in the England series and Pakistan ended up mostly bowling Nawaz and/or Hasnain with the new ball and it led to some ugly scores. If Shaheen & Naseem can topple the top order early on, they have a chance to win otheriwse its going to be extremely hard to win if they don't get early wickets.
 
In a high scoring match England will win easily it won’t be a spectacle more of a mis match a low scoring match should be more competitive but it’s likely to be a decent batting wicket.
 
Colorblind Genius said:
Oh yeah, I expect no changes either.

We are simply analyzing the situation and muu ka maza lenay k liye, voicing our opinions to engage is a spicy dialogue.

I say Shan is the weakest link because his probability of batting good against good team is almost zero. He is simply not a batsman who has the technique, power, skill, passion and fire in the belly, to be able to play in high octane T20 format - against good bowling units.

I think it was a blessing in disguise that Fakhar got injured and now we have Haris at # 3.

This gives us the option to hide Shan Masood somewhere in the middle order - otherwise, think about it, why is Haris placed on # 3 if Shan is so good? Why we require a dashing batsman in the most important spot in the batting line WHEN WE ALREADY HAD SHAN Sitting there at 3? Is Shan the same kind of batsman as Haris? If not, why did we have Shan at no 3, and why now we are replacing this spot?
Click to expand...

I am with you on this. Shan earlier was fine and playing as backup for Riz/Bab to give stability to middle order, fine for 150 type of scores. Against England 150 won't win it.

You must target 180-190.

For that we have to have players who can start and continue to play at that strike rate.

With Haris at 3, I would much rather just have rest of our middle order come in the likes of Nawaz, Shadab and Ifti over Shan.

If i had a choice, I would drop Shan for Haider Ali or Asif Ali. If they fire they get you over the line or to a big target. if they don't so be it, we have enough others. Shan even if he fires, will eat up 30 balls for a 35, that won't get us anywhere.

Wasim must play he is a death over specialist. Hasnain only does well with new ball and we are doing okay there already. Wasim also adds something with bat.
 
mon858 said:
I am with you on this. Shan earlier was fine and playing as backup for Riz/Bab to give stability to middle order, fine for 150 type of scores. Against England 150 won't win it.

You must target 180-190.

For that we have to have players who can start and continue to play at that strike rate.

With Haris at 3, I would much rather just have rest of our middle order come in the likes of Nawaz, Shadab and Ifti over Shan.

If i had a choice, I would drop Shan for Haider Ali or Asif Ali. If they fire they get you over the line or to a big target. if they don't so be it, we have enough others. Shan even if he fires, will eat up 30 balls for a 35, that won't get us anywhere.

Wasim must play he is a death over specialist. Hasnain only does well with new ball and we are doing okay there already. Wasim also adds something with bat.
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Yep, totally my point.
But as we know, as stubborn as we get with the mindset of "sticking with the winning combo" WITHOUT taking into consideration the facts that, this is a DIFFERENT OPPOSITION, A DIFFERENT GROUND, A DIFFERENT PITCH, A DIFFERENT BOWLING AND BATTING ATTACK - so we should AT LEAST be open to make adjustments to counter the changes coming up in the next game.

Same old, stuck in the rut approach - "stick with the winning combo".

So lets hope Shan does something extra ordinary and prove us wrong. Otherwise, a couple of short and rising balls will get him out of his misery.
 
Suleiman said:
Trust me on this.

Waseem was incredibly lucky Vs NZ. He bowled a couple of full tosses and half volleys that a batsman who was not crumbling under pressure like NZ’s would’ve put away for 4s and 6s.

He always looks 1-2 deliveries away from getting smashed out of the attack, and his only real strength is Yorkers (which he didn’t even nail consistently in the semis and served up full tosses), which is not enough Vs England or Kohli and SKY.

SKY isn’t particularly great against pure short pitched FAST bowling. Look at how Haris got him. Now imagine having 2 guys like that.

Hasnain had more tools, is faster, and is not as predictable as Waseem.

It doesn’t matter if he hasn’t played the tournament so far. M Haris was drafted it in late, Shaheen hadn’t played a game for months. Pakistanis thrive under the occasion of coming to the party late in tournaments. Hasnain has been performing well on tracks less helpful than Australian tracks. MCG will definitely have something for guys like him, Rauf and Shaheen.

Not to mention this guy plays in the BBL!! Having 2 bowlers, both with experience at the MCG and in Australia as a whole over the last few years is huge.

If Babar pulls the trigger on this decision, it could truly be a game changer.
Click to expand...

Why would you want someone who's more predictable in your xi lol.

Wasim had outbowled Rauf when he has played and his stats are very good pluss he can field.
 
The final will be decided by the match up between Pakistan bowlers and England batsmen. Its essential to Pakistani chances that Pakistan chase in this all important game if they win the toss. I want our bowlers to bowl at the England batters on a fresh wicket and when there is no scoreboard pressure on them. This will bring out the best from them.

As far as strategy is concerned this is going to be a Melbourne pitch that has natural bounce in it. What I would like to see is Shaheen, Naseem and Rauf explore this bounce after the initial 4 overs. Shadab is very critical to our chances, if he can nab the batsmen in the middle overs it can keep England down to achievable target. Ifti will be very critical with couple of overs given the number of left handers England has in their line-up.

Should Pakistan bat first its important that we capitalize on weaker bowlers for at least 8 or 9 per over. Today the massive reason England kept India to a lower total was precisely because Livingstone and Curran had very decent figures. When England has got Rashid in their team and potentially also Wood then we are left with only 12 overs to capitalize which we should if we want to set a total for a good match. This England team will be comfortable in chasing down 8 or less per over for full 20 overs.

Undoubtedly Buttler and Hales are the danger men. I trust Shaheen to be attacking upfront and I also want to see something similar from Naseem. Naseem has been absolutely brilliant with old ball in later end of innings but hasn't done much with new ball this tournament. I want this to change come Sunday. Similarly Haris Rauf has not had a glittering tournament I want the guy to bring his A game and try to match Wood pace for pace in the final.

I can't wait for the finals and my best wishes are with Pakistan team.
 
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