ICC World Cup 2023: Australia v South Africa | 2nd Semi Final | Kolkata | 16 November | Match Discussion

[jnaveen1980]

Australia is a beautiful place to bat. Facing this attack in these Kolkata conditions is more challenging then facing them on an even paced Perth surface with the sun shining.

Pakistan has actually batted quite well in Australia over the last to yours. Well enough to at least avoid a whitewash.

The big worry is the bowling. That is what cost Pakistan in 2016 and 2019 and like to cost Pakistan this time around as well.

Australia provides roads so that they can outbat opposition and also bowl relentlessly at the opposition.

 

[Asif321]

For once SA can be benefitted from rain . Let rain gods shower all the rain in Eden gardens to such extended that they can’t have result

 

[GLORY OF '92]

SA and NZ such a waste of 2 spots. England and Pakistan would have been much more challenging.

 

[jnaveen1980]

The ball was and is zipping about though. They didn't want to fiddle outside off stump plus the Aussies were cutting everything off denying those singles and boundaries.

My only issue is that we want to hit 6's to relieve pressure. We don't have a Jayawardene or a M. Clarke, guys that can keep the scoreboard ticking without playing high risk strokes

QDk had atleast 4 or 5 balls on the pads. He should have flicked them for 4 or 6. He was tapping for singles. They should have imposed themselves against bad balls.

 

[Asif321]

Is there a day 2 provision?

Yes reserve day tomorrow but it also going to be similar weather

 

[Mamoon]

Australia provides roads so that they can outbat opposition and also bowl relentlessly at the opposition.

Yes.

350-400 is achievable for most lineups in Australia these days including Pakistan and these totals are enough to keep you in the game provided that your bowlers can restrict Australia to similar scores which teams like India have managed.

The problem for Pakistan is that their batsmen bat out of their skins to achieve that score but Australia end up 600/4 in response.

 

[kron]

Is this flat or not??

 

[rhony]

Haydos talking about aussie fielding culture. Fascinating

 

[Asif321]

SA and NZ such a waste of 2 spots. England and Pakistan would have been much more challenging.

Yeah we saw that how Rizwan challenged adil Rashid here

 

[Swashbuckler]

It's so dangerous to come into games with a predetermined mindset. It looks gloomy out there and the ball has been zipping about all day

Indeed, fear of chasing has crippled SA's chances here. Sometimes pitch may be damp, it may be overcast, dew is always a factor in SC, often spin becomes less of a factor in 2nd innings, can't go with predetermined mindset of batting first without taking anything else into consideration. That is a cowardly approach.

 

[IndoorCricket]

Maybe read my arguments before sticking to hiding behind High horses of I think they just started watching recently and are inexperienced because they don't agree with my viewpoints.

You didn't read and glossed over every word I said, the same pitch pitch excuse is a done to death argument that gets smacked everytime it's brought up.

Also stop the whole new and old poster drama, It has zero relevance to anything, bring up your viewpoints, and why you disagree and ill address them and if you're proven right I'll respect them.

But don't hide behind inexperience clause assumption kindly

Not talking about you bud. You started watching from 2011 . I am talking about people who compares bowlers bowling in overcast conditions and bowlers bowling on flat surface. You are not the one. Hopefully you got the gist whom I am talking about.

And If I recall you were going berserk on saqib bhai recently saying he started watching cricket recently

 

[jnaveen1980]

Is this flat or not??

Nice carry, atmospheric conditions assist seamers.

 

[Sunzi]

Need a game here today.

Tomorrow looks bad for weather if a reserve day is required.

Otherwise SA progress on superior NRR - don't think they've got the mental fortitude to compete vs Ahmedabad and India.

 

[kron]

It

Yes.

350-400 is achievable for most lineups in Australia these days including Pakistan and these totals are enough to keep you in the game provided that your bowlers can restrict Australia to similar scores which teams like India have managed.

The problem for Pakistan is that their batsmen bat out of their skins to achieve that score but Australia end up 600/4 in response.

s cause our bowling has always been trash in SA and aus even during wasim and waqar‘s heydays

 

[soso_killer]

@soso_killer Bavuma bottled it.

This is actually how we lost the the 2007 WC as well. The game plan was formalized at the hotel instead of assessing conditions on the ground. Tried to hit McGrath out the park on a two paced wicket and found ourselves 5 down.

History repeating itself

 

[jnaveen1980]

SA and England had a template only for flat pitches not in other conditions. They probably thought all the pitches in India are flat pitches.

 

[mominsaigol]

you are underestimating their skills now bro. They are mor skilled now given vast experience.

I am not underestimating their skills.

Experience has nothing to do with anything form. That's the mentality pcb hides behind and lol where that got em lol.

They were horrific early on in the tournament but their peaking now. Regardless when hazlewood was younger his pace was up, his line and length was consistent, its why they left 2015 India with rohit, dhawan, kohli, Dhoni etc to chase 100 of the last 5 overs and India lost. India couldn't play em, NZ could barely function against that bowling.

In the final Daniel victori was a joke to their bats.

I am not underestimating anyone. This aus 2023 team is the weakest they've sent minus 2011 aus but it goes to show how much of a freak aus is, since their gonna be finalists or winners still.

And by 2027 you will see a completly different team, and even stronger Australia as the narrative will be replaced by younger fresher blood with proper talent management.

 

[Devadwal]

SA and NZ such a waste of 2 spots. England and Pakistan would have been much more challenging.

England and Pakistan were pathetic at league stages so they doesn't deserve to Play In Semifinals

 

[soso_killer]

Indeed, fear of chasing has crippled SA's chances here. Sometimes pitch may be damp, it may be overcast, dew is always a factor in SC, often spin becomes less of a factor in 2nd innings, can't go with predetermined mindset of batting first without taking anything else into consideration. That is a cowardly approach.

Exactly

 

[kingusama92]

It could have been a complete green top and South Africa would have batted first.

Aussies are relentless though.

They grabbed the advantage with both hands.

 

[Devadwal]

India is only country where teams get all the types of pitch .what a great world cup we are witnessing.

 

[Ab Fan]

Pitch is holding up. But South African batters have been timid with their approach.

 

[kron]

Have a feeling all Indian bowlers will bowl well in final except choking chokerah. He has waqar‘s choking genes in ko games.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

This is actually how we lost the the 2007 WC as well. The game plan was formalized at the hotel instead of assessing conditions on the ground. Tried to hit McGrath out the park on a two paced wicket and found ourselves 5 down.

History repeating itself

Bavuma bottled it by choosing to bat first here. Clear bowling conditions

Yeah this is 2007 all over again . Hazlewood is bowling with McGrath level accuracy and backed by some ridiculously good fielding too.

 

[amvbfm]

Any team that chooses to bat first in these conditions doesn't deserve to win. why not back your bowlers in these conditions? These aren't conditions suited to SA's top order's style of play. The best they could have managed was 30 or 40 without loss or one down. I doubt Australia would have fared much better if SA had put them in. Once again their mental weakness will cost them a knockout game. Only this time even before it began

 

[mominsaigol]

Not talking about you bud. You started watching from 2011 . I am talking about people who compares bowlers bowling in overcast conditions and bowlers bowling on flat surface. You are not the one. Hopefully you got the gist whom I am talking about.

And If I recall you were going berserk on saqib bhai recently saying he started watching cricket recently

I apologise for any misunderstanding. .

As for saqib, Saqib is a good dude and a passionate fan, he loves the product of cricket and he himself stated he lives in a bollywood narrative fantasy so I respect him for it as he's a casual fan and is honest with himself.

He's a good dude even if me and him disagree on alot of things. Even if his claims aren't solid or found, he's honest and their are very few people like that who are truly a passionate fan of the game so epic respect.

Also he and I don't complete disagree on everything. We both bash shan masood as captain and other things.

 

[Swashbuckler]

SA and NZ such a waste of 2 spots. England and Pakistan would have been much more challenging.

Buddy let's be honest. Pak wouldn't have challenged Ind/Aus in the semis, not this Pakistan. On a pitch like yesterday's Shadab/Nawaz/Usama would have given world record number of runs in their 10 overs. I have never seen Pakistani bowling and captaincy this poor.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Any team that chooses to bat first in these conditions doesn't deserve to win. why not back your bowlers in these conditions? These aren't conditions suited to SA's top order's style of play. The best they could have managed was 30 or 40 without loss or one down. I doubt Australia would have fared much better if SA had put them in. Once again their mental weakness will cost them a knockout game. Only this time even before it began

There is no way Jansen/Rabada going to do what they did. Jansen is very raw erratic. Coetze is also hit the deck bowler. So is Rabada. Australia would have raced away.

 

[viking2559]

You'll be facing this attack next month at Perth. If Saffers are getting mauled like this, better eat your vitamins and say your prayers for Imam against this attack at Perth ...

Lol I know what's gonna happen in that tour.
It has been happening for so long.

I couldn't care less about that tour but Australia has made all the Indians very scared. LOL.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Buddy let's be honest. Pak wouldn't have challenged Ind/Aus in the semis, not this Pakistan. On a pitch like yesterday's Shadab/Nawaz/Usama would have given world record number of runs in their 10 overs. I have never seen Pakistani bowling and captaincy this poor.

NZ gave me nervous moments upto a point. So they were competitive.

 

[Devadwal]

2003: Aus unbeaten, Australia beat Ind in group stage and Australia beat India in final.

2023: India unbeaten, India beat Australia in group stage and ...........

 

[jnaveen1980]

Travis head on a much more challenging pitch in the test match he destroyed the SA bowling that had Nortje as we ll. he would have massacred jansen, Rabada here.

 

[Visaal-E-Yaar]

India is only country where teams get all the types of pitch .what a great world cup we are witnessing.

Doctored pitch too

 

[rhony]

It could have been a complete green top and South Africa would have batted first.

Aussies are relentless though.

They grabbed the advantage with both hands.

They knew chasing under lights would be worse at Eden. 230 would have been a good fighting score. But SA doesn't have Kallis or AB. Instead they have a bunch of ftbs

 

[nish_mate]

Shhhh you will upset an old grumpy Englishman living in Australia

 

[jnaveen1980]

We are blindly assuming SA bowling would have replicated the same. Australian batting won't be timid like this.

 

[Devadwal]

Doctored pitch too

"Angoor khatte hai"

 

[Sunzi]

There is no way Jansen/Rabada going to do what they did. Jansen is very raw erratic. Coetze is also hit the deck bowler. So is Rabada. Australia would have raced away.

That maybe so, but the thought didn't even cross Bavuma's mind.

Can't be one-dimensional and rely on qudrat ka nizaam.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Australia is a beautiful place to bat. Facing this attack in these Kolkata conditions is more challenging then facing them on an even paced Perth surface with the sun shining.

Pakistan has actually batted quite well in Australia over the last two tours. Well enough to at least avoid a whitewash.

The big worry is the bowling. That is what cost Pakistan in 2016 and 2019 and like to cost Pakistan this time around as well.

It's a good place to bat if you can handle the bounce.

Problem is Pakistan collapse at least once on the bouncier tracks - MCG, Perth , Gabba.

Bowled out for 142 at Gabba 2016, collapsed from 75/0 to 240 Gabba 2019 for instance

And this time you are playing at Perth and MCG .

PAK will do wel at SCG no doubt.

 

[jnaveen1980]

That maybe so, but the thought didn't even cross Bavuma's mind.

His decision is correct. But their batsmen finding them in no man's land can very well happen in the 2nd innings as well. it is going to be overcast all evening.

 

[kron]

I am not underestimating their skills.

Experience has nothing to do with anything form. That's the mentality pcb hides behind and lol where that got em lol.

They were horrific early on in the tournament but their peaking now. Regardless when hazlewood was younger his pace was up, his line and length was consistent, its why they left 2015 India with rohit, dhawan, kohli, Dhoni etc to chase 100 of the last 5 overs and India lost. India couldn't play em, NZ could barely function against that bowling.

In the final Daniel victori was a joke to their bats.

I am not underestimating anyone. This aus 2023 team is the weakest they've sent minus 2011 aus but it goes to show how much of a freak aus is, since their gonna be finalists or winners still.

And by 2027 you will see a completly different team, and even stronger Australia as the narrative will be replaced by younger fresher blood with proper talent management.

2015 was a great team in Australian nz conditions and probably in SA. Wouldn't say they were as good in Asia or England though.

 

[zaidihusain]

It's a repeat of 2007 WC Semi Final, SA were 27/5 against same opposition. That's why I never want to see SA & NZ reaching knockouts in any tournaments. They literally surrenders in Knockouts, mostly one sided affairs. Australia & India performs best in KOs followed by Pakistan & England, these teams at least competes

 

[GLORY OF '92]

Pretty ridiculous to bat first in these conditions. SA are never going to win a WC with this generation.

 

[ex-q-zit]

We are blindly assuming SA bowling would have replicated the same. Australian batting won't be timid like this.

It not about whether AUS would have approached this timidly. Rather its about the conditions. Remember in Chennai where the pitch conditions assisted spin AUS folded for 199. Here the conditions assist pace and SA too have a good poace attack and would have put AUS under immense pressure.

 

[Devadwal]

We are blindly assuming SA bowling would have replicated the same. Australian batting won't be timid like this.

Maybe or maybe not but this pitch is perfect for bowling first , South Africa cowardly approach cost them another world cup .

 

[jnaveen1980]

It not about whether AUS would have approached this timidly. Rather its about the conditions. Remember in Chennai where the pitch conditions assisted spin AUS folded for 199. Here the conditions assist pace and SA too have a good poace attack and would have put AUS under immense pressure.

Why do you think conditions will change batting second? It will still help seamers.

 

[Swashbuckler]

It's a good place to bat if you can handle the bounce.

Problem is Pakistan collapse at least once on the bouncier tracks - MCG, Perth , Gabba.

Bowled out for 142 at Gabba 2016, collapsed from 75/0 to 240 Gabba 2019 for instance

And this time you are playing at Perth and MCG .

PAK will do wel at SCG no doubt.

By the time they land in Sydney they will probably be mentally broken.

 

[rhony]

Doctored pitch too

Yes and it will be a nice slow pitch in the final too. Gotta choke these aussies. What's the point of having billions when u can't doctor a couple of pitches or bowl balls with chips. Best part is Rohit borrowed the toss coin from Bachchan which he used in the movie Sholay. Will use it in final too.

 

[viking2559]

When Australia won 4-5 matches I thought they might win every match from now on and they will be unbeaten in this world cup and will conquer the world cup looks like it's gonna happen.

It's Australia's world cup to lose.
Let's go Australia...

 

[Varun]

If South Africa can come back from this, they can shed the chokers tag forever.

Need 280 at a minimum though.

 

[jnaveen1980]

SA unit is imbalanced. Not an all round unit. This is fit only for flat pitches.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

Lol I know what's gonna happen in that tour.
It has been happening for so long.

I couldn't care less about that tour but Australia has made all the Indians very scared. LOL.

Too bad. India are winning this Cup and you are still gonna get smashed in Australia.

 

[Varun]

It's a repeat of 2007 WC Semi Final, SA were 27/5 against same opposition. That's why I never want to see SA & NZ reaching knockouts in any tournaments. They literally surrenders in Knockouts, mostly one sided affairs. Australia & India performs best in KOs followed by Pakistan & England, these teams at least competes

Why do you think this is? Probably mental?

 

[rhony]

Travis head on a much more challenging pitch in the test match he destroyed the SA bowling that had Nortje as we ll. he would have massacred jansen, Rabada here.

Head bats like a headless slugger in ODIs. I believe aussies would have scored the same if they batted first here

 

[ex-q-zit]

It's a repeat of 2007 WC Semi Final, SA were 27/5 against same opposition. That's why I never want to see SA & NZ reaching knockouts in any tournaments. They literally surrenders in Knockouts, mostly one sided affairs. Australia & India performs best in KOs followed by Pakistan & England, these teams at least competes

Except AUS every other team struggles in KOs. India, SA and NZ regularly reach KOs and fail to reach the top spot. PAK more often then not fails to reach KOs and in the few times it reached the results are there to be seen. Only AUS have been cut with a different cloth as they went on to win 5 times.

 

[Nikhil_cric]

By the time they land in Sydney they will probably be mentally broken.

Yeah that's the problem . If they can agree on a tour where they start the tour at SCG and then Adelaide, they may have a chance but CA won't ever let that happen , lol

 

[Sunzi]

His decision is correct. But their batsmen finding them in no man's land can very well happen in the 2nd innings as well. it is going to be overcast all evening.

I'd suggest to you that 20-4 evidences a bad decision.

Even if it was the right decision, he allowed dogma to trump instinct. Captaincy and winning things requires versatility and adaptability.

 

[Visaal-E-Yaar]

Yes and it will be a nice slow pitch in the final too. Gotta choke these aussies. What's the point of having billions when u can't doctor a couple of pitches or bowl balls with chips. Best part is Rohit borrowed the toss coin from Bachchan which he used in the movie Sholay. Will use it in final too.

Bad jokes and comedy can't hide your cheating. You guy get pitches of your choices, Accept it and move on.

 

[rhony]

Bad jokes and comedy can't hide your cheating. You guy get pitches of your choices, Accept it and move on.

We get green tops outside India in our semis. In India the others will get slow pitches.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Head bats like a headless slugger in ODIs. I believe aussies would have scored the same if they batted first here

No. Travis head doesn't knwo any other way. Besides their bowlers are not that metronomic like hazlewood. Jansen was all over the shop in a lot of matches. they don't even have ngidi. Rabada hits the deck. Not a swing or seam bowler. Two aggressive lefties would have upset their rhythm.

 

[globetrotter]

Never seen any team choking after seeing India in Final

 

[Sunzi]

Why are most Pakistanis I met online like this? They care more about demise of other teams that improvement for their own. Recently Wasim Akram was also highlighting this pathetic attitude of Pakistanis in a talk show,

Indians are the same.

5 minutes on Twitter about any topic to do with Pakistan or Muslims (Gaza/Israel for example) is littered with the same toxicity.

Nature of the bad blood, unfortunately.

 

[rhony]

No. Travis head doesn't knwo any other way. Besides their bowlers are not that metronomic like hazlewood. Jansen was all over the shop in a lot of matches. they don't even have ngidi. Rabada hits the deck. Not a swing or seam bowler. Two aggressive lefties would have upset their rhythm.

I think you are giving way too much credit to the aussies. They were clueless against afghans in conditions much better than this

 

[jnaveen1980]

I'd suggest to you that 20-4 evidences a bad decision.

Even if it was the right decision, he allowed dogma to trump instinct. Captaincy and winning things requires versatility and adaptability.

Hindsight friend. They can be 20/4 in the 2nd innings as well with this timid approach.

 

[ex-q-zit]

Why do you think conditions will change batting second? It will still help seamers.

I agree and even if they dont SA with their mental block they can never chase. I was only saying this AUS team too would have struggled. But no matter how much they put SA wouldn't have chased it.

 

[Visaal-E-Yaar]

We get green tops outside India in our semis. In India the others will get slow pitches.

That's not the issue what team get what and where. Problem is how team management can demand certain pitch? I can bet you don't have answer to that.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I think you are giving way too much credit to the aussies. They were clueless against afghans in conditions much better than this

It is more to do with how Australia will come hard in a knock out. They were never goign to play 46 dot balls in the first 10 overs.

 

[jnaveen1980]

I agree and even if they dont SA with their mental block they can never chase. I was only saying this AUS team too would have struggled. But no matter how much they put SA wouldn't have chased it.

No. In semi final if Australia had won the toss they were going to bat 100 out of 100 times. Runs on the board.

 

[Sunzi]

Hindsight friend. They can be 20/4 in the 2nd innings as well with this timid approach.

Yes, of course.

However, overcast, covered wicket in a region that has seen rain recently warrants the consideration of bowling first, and I'm convinced that didn't enter Lord Bavuma's thoughts once.

 

[zaidihusain]

Except AUS every other team struggles in KOs. India, SA and NZ regularly reach KOs and fail to reach the top spot. PAK more often then not fails to reach KOs and in the few times it reached the results are there to be seen. Only AUS have been cut with a different cloth as they went on to wi.

Yes Australia is supreme altogether but India has won 2 50 Overs WCs, 1 CT, 1 T20 WCs, numerous Asia cups and many Tri series. I don't remember when SA or NZ won any big tournament. Eng has also won 3 WCs, 1 ODI & 2 T20. Pak has also won 1 WC each in both formats, 1 CT and few Asia cups and many Tri series

 

[GLORY OF '92]

It is more to do with how Australia will come hard in a knock out. They were never goign to play 46 dot balls in the first 10 overs.

Even we wouldn't have been so poor.

Shocking performance this.

 

[rhony]

That's not the issue what team get what and where. Problem is how team management can demand certain pitch? I can bet you don't have answer to that.

I bet my answer won't satisfy you. That's because you need to cope somehow. Hasan Raza has been a savior for folks like you helping you cope and now you are running with everything that satiates your frustration. It was a batting patta today. Spinners hardly took wickets. It wasn't even a typical Mumbai pitch. It was batting friendly through and through. Don't watch Hasan Raza

 

[Energy]

My guess is that it will be a slow/turner for the final, and India will try the Afghanistan route to bat first (that's a given), get 300, and then squeeze Australia. Afghanistan couldn't do it because of Maxwell but he won't save the day every time.

So, the script is prepared my friends. A wicket that will get slower in the 2nd innings - India will bat first - Score 320 +-10% - Australia will fold for 240 +-10%.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Not long ago

 

[jnaveen1980]

Even we wouldn't have been so poor.

Shocking performance this.

Atleast twice they batted like this bilaterals against B string Indian bowlers. India bowled SA out for 99 runs at Delhi recently. Siraj took 3fer upfront. Their team is suitable only for flat pitches.

 

[Advaith]

Rain can save South Africa world cup dreams .. tomorrow much more rain predicted..

 

[ex-q-zit]

Yes Australia is supreme altogether but India has won 2 50 Overs WCs, 1 CT, 1 T20 WCs, numerous Asia cups and many Tri series. I don't remember when SA or NZ won any big tournament. Eng has also won 3 WCs, 1 ODI & 2 T20. Pak has also won 1 WC each in both formats, 1 CT and few Asia cups and many Tri series

OK I thought you were specifically talking about ODI WCs. Yeah if we look at both form of limited overs cricket SA and NZ hardly win any multi-team events except for 1 CT each.

 

[Mamoon]

My guess is that it will be a slow/turner for the final, and India will try the Afghanistan route to bat first (that's a given), get 300, and then squeeze Australia. Afghanistan couldn't do it because of Maxwell but he won't save the day every time.

So, the script is prepared my friends. A wicket that will get slower in the 2nd innings - India will bat first - Score 320 +-10% - Australia will fold for 240 +-10%.

Fans and media of a certain country crying like babies and coming up with conspiracy theories after India win the final is also part of the script.

 

[jnaveen1980]

SA probably would have preferred playing at Wankhede, india would have preferred playing at Eden Gardens.

 

[Devadwal]

Imran Tahir during rain break ( Hindi commentary) - "You have played cricket like children. When you have coaches with 4 year contracts, this is how you play? In front of 40000 people, South Africa have been embarrassing"