ICC World Cup 2023: England v Pakistan | Match 44 | Kolkata | 11 November | England Innings

That was a wide to be honest - good for PAK, not given. I think Riz got unsighted by the reverse sweep attempt (which also saved the side); tried to stop with closing legs as well….
Sometimes people just silently wait for you to fail so that they can have a moment of joy. It was wrong line by Shadab and keeper was definitely blindfolded by batter in an attempted sweep.
 
That was a wide to be honest - good for PAK, not given. I think Riz got unsighted by the reverse sweep attempt (which also saved the side); tried to stop with closing legs as well….
Probably not given because umpire thought Stokes was trying to Switch hit
 
Chennai, Kolkata, Lucknow pitches were the best, gave classic 90s feel with the bat-ball balance. Ahmedabad too not bad.
 
Shaheen and Rauf need some time away from cricket. They are unwatchable atm
Basically, setting up priorities- Shaheen is an excellent new ball bowler with proper bowling fundamentals- he shouldn’t play any T20I - May be WC & PSL only…. While Rauf should retire from both longer games.
 
Basically, setting up priorities- Shaheen is an excellent new ball bowler with proper bowling fundamentals- he shouldn’t play any T20I - May be WC & PSL only…. While Rauf should retire from both longer games.
Shaheen bowling at 130kph is useless with new ball too. Must take a break like Bumrah
 
Eden has changed lot - been there last time in 2003/4 (?) that CAB centenary game between Ind-PAK.
Oh yeah that was 2004/05 season. To be honest almost all Indian venues have changed a lot in this time.
 
SK has completely forgotten bowling to lefti - he is way down the line….. might try round the wicket
 
Stokes is on a mission to salvage pride. Shaheen you may have dropped the match once again
 
Stokes creaming Shaheen here

Reminds me of how Sharjeel took him down in PSL 2022
 
Stokes has excellent movement and positioning when he decides to go for a big shot. And he COMMITS.
 
Think the issue is Shadab is trying to be an up and over spinner and trying to beat batters in flight and get them caught out by inviting the big hits ala Adil Rashid

Don't think he has the skills to do that.

Better off trying to emulate Zampa and bowling quick and finishing on the stumps.
 
Shaheen bowling at 130kph is useless with new ball too. Must take a break like Bumrah
Pacers get stronger by bowling, not at gym. In 1980s, top pacers used to bowl over 1000 overs only in County games!!!! He needs better conditioning and may be change in diet - even if I take significant buffer in the official age, he should be at his physical strongest now.

Bumrah’s case was different- he was getting cured from an injury.
 
Did some players not performed purposely in this WC?
It's just a thought.
More of an attitude thing in babar and his friends mind they had this narration that they are the number 1 team in the world and babar is the number 1 batsmen and they will rip though all batting line ups with there worlds number 1 bowling line up so they didn't really bother with any plans and preparation untill then saw the reality is something different when they lost to Afghanistan
 
137
138
135
135

speeds of shaheen today

where is the fasttttttttt 139 to 145 ???
 
Think the issue is Shadab is trying to be an up and over spinner and trying to beat batters in flight and get them caught out by inviting the big hits ala Adil Rashid

Don't think he has the skills to do that.

Better off trying to emulate Zampa and bowling quick and finishing on the stumps.
And they showed the graphic on broadcast as well. Needs to bowl quick and into the stumps.
 
More of an attitude thing in babar and his friends mind they had this narration that they are the number 1 team in the world and babar is the number 1 batsmen and they will rip though all batting line ups with there worlds number 1 bowling line up so they didn't really bother with any plans and preparation untill then saw the reality is something different when they lost to Afghanistan
run rate still under 6? black forrest or ? funfetti or pound cake today
 
More of an attitude thing in babar and his friends mind they had this narration that they are the number 1 team in the world and babar is the number 1 batsmen and they will rip though all batting line ups with there worlds number 1 bowling line up so they didn't really bother with any plans and preparation untill then saw the reality is something different when they lost to Afghanistan
do'nt know about attitude thing or what, but your mgmt should have woken up after Asia cup. The very least wold have been sending decent spinner like Abrar Ahmed.
 
do'nt know about attitude thing or what, but your mgmt should have woken up after Asia cup. The very least wold have been sending decent spinner like Abrar Ahmed.
Management set up a technical team and abrar and other changes were recommended but babar was stubborn and didn't wanted anyone to interfere with squad selection
 
PAK should have taken 2nd spinner today. It’ll reverse later stages but Poms might run away with the game by then.

@Mamoon - regardless of the result today, how many will retire after the game?
Don’t know about retire in technical terms except Stokes, but surely this is the end of the road for Root, Moeen, Rashid and Willey. Buttler will be removed as captain.

The real question is who will take over as captain. England are short of options on that front.
 
Pacers get stronger by bowling, not at gym. In 1980s, top pacers used to bowl over 1000 overs only in County games!!!! He needs better conditioning and may be change in diet - even if I take significant buffer in the official age, he should be at his physical strongest now.

Bumrah’s case was different- he was getting cured from an injury.
Shaheen too hasn't recovered from injury I feel.
But if he has and this is the best he has to offer now I am afraid we have lost a gem
 
Abrar is Kumble type or Warne type? I mean is he a big turner leggi or more of a top spinner?
 
Don’t know about retire in technical terms except Stokes, but surely this is the end of the road for Root, Moeen, Rashid and Willey. Buttler will be removed as captain.

The real question is who will take over as captain. England are short of options on that front.
possible brook.
 
137
138
135
135

speeds of shaheen today

where is the fasttttttttt 139 to 145 ???
He’s finished live with it said it time and time again he will only play on past reputation and get carted to all corners he’s lost his speed and with that ability to an extent to bowl wicket taking deliveries .

Always in the cusp of getting battered just like his spray gun pal Rauf. Need a full reshuffle and blood in new talent such as Ihsanullah, naseem, Abbas etc
 
Don’t know about retire in technical terms except Stokes, but surely this is the end of the road for Root, Moeen, Rashid and Willey. Buttler will be removed as captain.

The real question is who will take over as captain. England are short of options on that front.
I don’t think, Captaincy would be any issue for English teams - they are very professional in that regard. I think, first they’ll select first choice 15 for CT 2025, then appoint one from them.
 
He’s finished live with it said it time and time again he will only play on past reputation and get carted to all corners he’s lost his speed and with that ability to an extent to bowl wicket taking deliveries .

Always in the cusp of getting battered just like his spray gun pal Rauf. Need a full reshuffle and blood in new talent such as Ihsanullah, naseem, Abbas etc
wouldnt write him of yet. needs a good year of rest. recover and recuperate well. then we will see. he has been over bowled
 
Abrar is Kumble type or Warne type? I mean is he a big turner leggi or more of a top spinner?
Nothing special, we just assume those who are not playing are better than the playing ones. Just like Usama was considered better than Shadab, but in reality both are crap.
 
he doesnt turn that much
Might not be a good prospect for ODI then, can be a better T20 bowler, but in ODI batsmen would milk him for 10-0-48-0 sort of figure - specialist spinners must play in ODI to take wickets, not to restrict runs.
 
wouldnt write him of yet. needs a good year of rest. recover and recuperate well. then we will see. he has been over bowled
Yes and you really think the pakistan think tank will rest him mark my words he will be burnt to the ground even more just because he’s taken a few cheap wicket this World Cup and his bowling speed will reduce to a mere 75 mph where he will be even more of a cannon fodder waiting to get smashed.

He was one of my favourite bowlers prior to injury but the incompetent pcb selectors and captain have destroyed his career
 
Might not be a good prospect for ODI then, can be a better T20 bowler, but in ODI batsmen would milk him for 10-0-48-0 sort of figure - specialist spinners must play in ODI to take wickets, not to restrict runs.
like the person above me mentioned. its just a case of grass is greener elswhere case. just like those sitting out magically appear to be the solution when they arent. he is an average bowler.
 
I would convince Root to carry on. World class batsman who can still play until the next World Cup.

He is at his best when the other aggressive batsmen around him are delivering which didn’t happen in this World Cup.

Him at 3 maintain 45 @90 stats is still very valuable for England in ODIs provided that the other batsmen are doing their job.
 
I have seen Shaheen never sliding on left side while fielding, indicating there is something wrong with his left knee. Is it the same knee he had issues with before 2022 T20 WC?
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I believe he should have rested in asiacup. Anyways i think from now he need 6 months rest + 1 month rehab before t20 WC.
For aus tour we can find replacement easily.
 
Abrar is Kumble type or Warne type? I mean is he a big turner leggi or more of a top spinner?
He's our test spinner. Got better control and relies more on change of pace and creates different angles.
Not a big spinner of the ball
 
Yes and you really think the pakistan think tank will rest him mark my words he will be burnt to the ground even more just because he’s taken a few cheap wicket this World Cup and his bowling speed will reduce to a mere 75 mph where he will be even more of a cannon fodder waiting to get smashed.

He was one of my favourite bowlers prior to injury but the incompetent pcb selectors and captain have destroyed his career
100% cant disagree there. remember its also about marketing. shaheen will put butts on seats in pakistan so he will be forced to play. sadly not good for his health. he will never be allowed to rest and recover to come back stronger.
 
Nothing special, we just assume those who are not playing are better than the playing ones. Just like Usama was considered better than Shadab, but in reality both are crap.
May be PCT doesn’t allow spinners to develop either - always looking for runs from spinners (means look for all-rounders), and use them as squeezer, not wicket takes. First these white coaches need to understand that spin is part of Asian team’s attacking weapon, not just for over rate management & lower order batting….
 
Don’t know about retire in technical terms except Stokes, but surely this is the end of the road for Root, Moeen, Rashid and Willey. Buttler will be removed as captain.

The real question is who will take over as captain. England are short of options on that front.
This is Stoksey's last ODI for sure. However, I think Root, Rashid and Moeen will play Champions Trophy 2025.

England should immediately make Harry Brook as their next captain.
 
This is Stoksey's last ODI for sure. However, I think Root, Rashid and Moeen will play Champions Trophy 2025.

England should immediately make Harry Brook as their next captain.
A loser like Moeen surviving after 2019 is a travesty, let alone after 2023. One of the worst players I have ever seen.
 
100% cant disagree there. remember its also about marketing. shaheen will put butts on seats in pakistan so he will be forced to play. sadly not good for his health. he will never be allowed to rest and recover to come back stronger.
Honestly it boils my blood to see such a a supreme talent be destroyed like this. Look how India have taken care of Bumrah who’s on the verge of being the greatest fast bowler of all time. Afridi was on his way to matching bumrah level but sadly he’s finished by our pathetic board on their persistence to play him through injury and not let him recover.

Bumrah has been taken care off and like I said from the start will win India this World Cup and a couple more. He’s just too good.
 
May be PCT doesn’t allow spinners to develop either - always looking for runs from spinners (means look for all-rounders), and use them as squeezer, not wicket takes. First these white coaches need to understand that spin is part of Asian team’s attacking weapon, not just for over rate management & lower order batting….
Correct haven't focused on this department ever since Ajmal left. There is no one in PSL also who looks bit promising. In early seasons we had guys like Asghar, Umer Khan who could have been developed into better players but PCB couldn't just focus on this department and rather picked guys like Nauman and Sajid.
 
Babar should try saud to bowl some overs no harm in that given the context of this game, he was decent in the england series
 
I would convince Root to carry on. World class batsman who can still play until the next World Cup.

He is at his best when the other aggressive batsmen around him are delivering which didn’t happen in this World Cup.

Him at 3 maintain 45 @90 stats is still very valuable for England in ODIs provided that the other batsmen are doing their job.
He is more focused on breaking SRT’s Test records - the amount of Test England plays, another 5 years, he should be there.
 
People said similar things about Bumrah, but his board was professional and competitive enough to handle his injury. Gave him enough time and world class facilities to recover well.
Ik bro, just look at what happened to naseem
 
Signs are ominous for PAK - just as a random figure somewhere yesterday I mentored that unless PAK strikes first, Poms might be 201/2 by 35 overs - exactly there. Target will be well over 300 here.
 
righHonestly it boils my blood to see such a a supreme talent be destroyed like this. Look how India have taken care of Bumrah who’s on the verge of being the greatest fast bowler of all time. Afridi was on his way to matching bumrah level but sadly he’s finished by our pathetic board on their persistence to play him through injury and not let him recover.

Bumrah has been taken care off and like I said from the start will win India this World Cup and a couple more. He’s just too good.
yea i was having a chat with my dad at his place about shaheen. Even he picked up on that awkward release point of shaheen where his body sort of contorts and sways a bit to the right before release. almost like he is over compensating for an injury by splaying his right leg out wider. before injury, his back was straighter and feet aligned to the Centre prior to releasing the ball.
 
Ben Stokes making a statement that he’s better than Maxwell at this.
 
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