Imran Khan leading from the front

[WebGuru]

There are many performances of Imran Khan but in this thread i picked a couple of his outstanding performances as Captain.

Pakistan in England Test Series, 1987
Imran Khan was the highest wicket taker from both sides in this series he got 21 wickets in this series with an average of less thn 22 and a SR of 48 including one 10fer and two 5fers. Imran also scored his first Test century against England in this series at The Oval and scored a total of 191 runs.

First 2 matches of this series resulted in a draw but 3rd match was all about Imran Khan he got 10 wickets in that match, 3 wickets in first innings and thn 7 wickets in 2nd innings and 6 out of those 7 wickets were of top 7 batsmen in 2nd innings. Pakistan won by an innings and 18 runs and won the series because next 2 matches also resulted in a draw.

Awards: Man of the Series, Man of the Match in 3rd Test

India in Pakistan Test Series, 1982/83
Khan was the outstanding bowler in this series with his 40 wickets and an average of less thn 14 with a SR of less thn 34 including two 10fers and four 5fers. He also scored his first Test century against India in this series and scored a total of 247 runs.

In 3rd Test of this series he became the 3rd player to score a century with 10 wickets haul in same match. He scored 117 runs with a SR of 96+ and got 11 wickets in that match. Pakistan won the match by 10 wickets and in the end Pakistan won this 6 matches Test series 3-0.

Awards: Man of the Series, Man of the Match in 2nd and 3rd Test

Pakistan in West Indies Test Series, 1987/88
1st Test of this series was the debut match for Ambrose but we can't say it was a good start for Ambrose his figures in that match were 121/2 while in same Match Imran got 11 wickets and Pakistan won the match by 9 Wickets. Next match resulted in a draw and WI won the 3rd Test so series was drawn but this series will be remembered because of Imran best bowling performance against WI he got 23 wickets in this series with an average of 18 and SR of less thn 34 including one 10fer and two 5fers.

Awards: Man of the Series, Man of the Match in 1st Test

Pakistan in India Test Series, 1986/87
This is the series where Imran scored his most runs in a series. He was the 3rd highest run getter in this series with 324 runs including a century and 2 half centuries. Pakistan won the 5th match and the series by 1-0 after 4 consecutive draws.

Awards: Man of the Series, Man of the Match in 1st Test

World Cup, 1992
In the end who can forget his captaincy and that 72 runs innings in the final when Pakistan team was at 24/2 he built a partnership of 139 with Miandad and got a respectable total for Pakistan.

 

[lilFlip]

Hey web, you can make threads all day long about his stats.

The greatest. What a beast

 

[akheR]

In ODIs as a batsman, a notable performance was his 67* @ SR +160 (!) against a WI comprising of Marshall-Ambrose-Bishop, in Australia in '89, when there was only one other half century from the Pak side (Aamer Malik, SR 60) and the likes of had a SR of 40... it sealed a win by 55 runs for Pak, as Imran Khan too 2 wickets later on.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65444.html

In the next match, chasing down a revised target of 115 against Australia, Imran Khan remained NO on 42* @ SR +100 (without a single boundary!) when the second best "batsman" was Wasim Akram slogging at 17... Pakistan missed it by 6 runs

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/65446.html

Also, a 43 @ SR 180 against India was as valuable as Aamir Sohail's 90-odd for Pakistan to grab the match by a mere 4 runs and, later on, the series 3-2.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65945.html

He's generally criticized for his "defensive batting", but he won games for Pakistan with the bat. In fact, in won ODI matches (more than half of his career's) Immy's batting average goes to 47 (and 50 as captain) @ SR of 80.

In Tests as an all rounder, that's his figures as captain

"Leading from the front"'s an understatement.

 

[saiyan0312]

What a player and a legend. Great bowler,great batsmen and great captain. Could score runs both slow and fast and was a great bowler to boot. We have not produced a player of half his class after his retirement. Best player we ever produced.

 

[saiyan0312]

In ODIs as a batsman, a notable performance was his 67* @ SR +160 (!) against a WI comprising of Marshall-Ambrose-Bishop, in Australia in '89, when there was only one other half century from the Pak side (Aamer Malik, SR 60) and the likes of had a SR of 40... it sealed a win by 55 runs for Pak, as Imran Khan too 2 wickets later on.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65444.html

In the next match, chasing down a revised target of 115 against Australia, Imran Khan remained NO on 42* @ SR +100 (without a single boundary!) when the second best "batsman" was Wasim Akram slogging at 17... Pakistan missed it by 6 runs

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/current/match/65446.html

Also, a 43 @ SR 180 against India was as valuable as Aamir Sohail's 90-odd for Pakistan to grab the match by a mere 4 runs and, later on, the series 3-2.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65945.html

He's generally criticized for his "defensive batting", but he won games for Pakistan with the bat. In fact, in won ODI matches (more than half of his career's) Immy's batting average goes to 47 (and 50 as captain) @ SR of 80.

In Tests as an all rounder, that's his figures as captain

"Leading from the front"'s an understatement.

So he could rotate the strike too. Well that makes him better then alot of our current batsmen who cant even take singles.

 

[waqar_ahmad]

THe greatest ever!

We should make him the non playing captain. He can still have a bigger impact than any of the current players

 

[akheR]

What a player and a legend. Great bowler,great batsmen and great captain. Could score runs both slow and fast and was a great bowler to boot. We have not produced a player of half his class after his retirement. Best player we ever produced.

As a Test bowler, he has the best peak average in the whole history of Test cricket, when, from 1981 to 1986, he took +150 scalps @ less than 15 !

The second best position being taken by Waqar Younis and Malcolm Marshall, averaged 17 in their best shape.

That's only as a bowler, if you add the captaincy and batting skills, I think it's easy to say that we'll be very lucky to produce another half-as-decent cricketer.

 

[saiyan0312]

As a Test bowler, he has the best peak average in the whole history of Test cricket, when, from 1981 to 1986, he took +150 scalps @ less than 15 !

The second best position being taken by Waqar Younis and Malcolm Marshall, averaged 17 in their best shape.

That's only as a bowler, if you add the captaincy and batting skills, I think it's easy to say that we'll be very lucky to produce another half-as-decent cricketer.

Yep at his peak he was destructive. I agree very very lucky if we produce another half decent player like him.

 

[Scrolln]

The best cricketer from Pakistan and one of the top 5 greatest cricketers of all time in my book.

 

[akheR]

Also played 's trademark upper cut against

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/lPl_eB9a0Jo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Some sixes, last one punched at an age when some can't hold a bat (in the first video, he's described as a "hard hitting batsman")

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/HP8pSAL0XHQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ZjsC4bz-q7A" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/BvMLE1U0avg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Not innocently that I talk about his ODI batting, as, for few, it's Imran Khan's career main black spot (even if for someone who played at 5-6, an average of 34 @ SR of +70 was good until the 90s and, some would reckon, until today at least in Pakistan.)

 

[lilFlip]

And we haven't even talked about his swag and impact on field.

Perhaps only can be compared with in these attributes

 

[akheR]

Again in ODIs, against Australia @ Sydney in 1990, he first hit a calm half century before taking two wickets and especially giving the economical last over the match which made Pakistan's win possible (by 2 runs!)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65462.html

That's the famous last over, when AUS, galvanized by a ballistic O'Donnell (already 30-odd @ SR 100 and ready to take on), only needed 4 runs - but Immy didn't let it happen !

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/On4yluGlPE4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[FusedBulb]

There are many performances of Imran Khan but in this thread i picked a couple of his outstanding performances as Captain.

Here is the real deal.

No Tendulkar, Gawaskar, Viv Richards, Bradman, Ponting, Kallis, Dhoni or whatever, can't even come close.

[utube]Gx97i6snD90[/utube]​

 

[Scrolln]

Here is the real deal.

No Tendulkar, Gawaskar, Viv Richards, Bradman, Ponting, Kallis, Dhoni or whatever, can't even come close.

[utube]Gx97i6snD90[/utube]​

Gotta love the tacky 80's music in the documentary

Legend!

 

[Robert]

T


Pakistan in England Test Series, 1987
Imran Khan was the highest wicket taker from both sides in this series he got 21 wickets in this series with an average of less thn 22 and a SR of 48 including one 10fer and two 5fers. Imran also scored his first Test century against England in this series at The Oval and scored a total of 191 runs.

First 2 matches of this series resulted in a draw but 3rd match was all about Imran Khan he got 10 wickets in that match, 3 wickets in first innings and thn 7 wickets in 2nd innings and 6 out of those 7 wickets were of top 7 batsmen in 2nd innings. Pakistan won by an innings and 18 runs and won the series because next 2 matches also resulted in a draw.

England's best chance to win a match was the first test at Manchester. I remember that I had just finished my finals and watched the match in the TV room in halls. Imran couldn't bowl, England got a good score and were getting through Pakistan but the rain kept falling.

The tenfer at Leeds was the pivotal performance of the series, because every other match was drawn. I was awarded my degree during the match.

Imran's century at the Oval was on a road - he came in with 382 runs already on the board. Foster had broken down after 12 overs, while Dilley picked up an injury too and was at half-pace. Javed got 260, Salim a maiden hundred I think, Gatting 150* and only 24 wickets fell in the match, of which just one fell on the last day. Botham ground out 50* in 200 balls, his one meaningful contribution to the series IIRC.

 

[WebGuru]

Imran's century at the Oval was on a road - he came in with 382 runs already on the board. Foster had broken down after 12 overs, while Dilley picked up an injury too and was at half-pace. Javed got 260, Salim a maiden hundred I think, Gatting 150* and only 24 wickets fell in the match, of which just one fell on the last day. Botham ground out 50* in 200 balls, his one meaningful contribution to the series IIRC.

Botham conceded 217 runs in 1st innings of that match?

 

[Robert]

Botham conceded 217 runs in 1st innings of that match?

Yeah, I think it was the worst ever return by an England player. He got three top-order wickets but at huge cost.

Like I said - flat wicket, one opening bowler out injured, the other bowling at reduced pace due to injury, so Botham had to bowl and bowl. 52 overs in the innings.

Botham should not have been playing tests by then - he had bowled far too many overs in his career, picked up too many injuries and his pace and most of his outswing had gone.

I suppose he could have focused on his batting, and become a Gooch-style change bowler for ten overs per innings. Might have ended up with 18-20 test centuries. Ah well, shoulda woulda coulda.....

 

[tempus123]

Not sure, why home teams prepare flat tracks and then later when the opposition batsmen score on them, they reject the performance on the basis of it being done on a flat track ?

I heard this excuse in case of Sehwag's 300 in Multan also, never mind the fact that Pakistan batsmen couldn't bat there and lost by an innings. The wicket wasn't flat when the home team batted ?

 

[standardcricket]

Not sure, why home teams prepare flat tracks and then later when the opposition batsmen score on them, they reject the performance on the basis of it being done on a flat track ?

I heard this excuse in case of Sehwag's 300 in Multan also, never mind the fact that Pakistan batsmen couldn't bat there and lost by an innings. The wicket wasn't flat when the home team batted ?

Coping mechanism

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Imran was just fabulous.

Lucky for India, he has retired.

 

[tempus123]

Imran was just fabulous.

Lucky for India, he has retired.

Why do you say Lucky for India ?

 

[Bilal7]

The 82/83 series showed why Imran was that much better than Kapil Dev.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Why do you say Lucky for India ?

Because in the Imran era, India would get smashed a lot.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

And we haven't even talked about his swag and impact on field.

Perhaps only can be compared with in these attributes

I admire Imran's achievements but comments like these are kinda unsettling.

Its like saying Inzamam was such a legend that only Sachin can be compared to him.

For swag, Viv is the benchmark.

No one else.

People are compared to Viv.

Not the other way round.

 

[tempus123]

Because in the Imran era, India would get smashed a lot.

But does all of that (or most of that) have to do with Imran ? I think Javed tormented India more..

 

[Robert]

Not sure, why home teams prepare flat tracks and then later when the opposition batsmen score on them, they reject the performance on the basis of it being done on a flat track ?

You know I'm not "the home team" or the head groundsman at the Oval?

Obviously some conditions are harder to score in than others. For example: I particularly rate Gooch's 154* at Headingley in 1991, on a seaming track, under heavy cloud, against arguably the best fast attack ever.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63557.html

 

[tempus123]

You know I'm not "the home team" or the head groundsman at the Oval?

Obviously some conditions are harder to score in than others. For example: I particularly rate Gooch's 154* at Headingley in 1991, on a seaming track, under heavy cloud, against arguably the best fast attack ever.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63557.html

That's true, but it looks weird that a flat track is prepared which suited the opposition batsmen.

 

[Kianig89]

as i'm 24 years old thus never watched playing cricket live those who have this privileged experience were very fortunate

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

But does all of that (or most of that) have to do with Imran ? I think Javed tormented India more..

I agree.

The comment was more of a sign of respect than a perfect factual answer.

Imran tormented us cos he the whole Pak team was good. It was #2 in that era (80's).

If Imran was playing today, I can bet you he would NOT have let Pak come to this stage.

 

[tempus123]

I agree.

The comment was sign of respect than a perfect factual answer.

Imran tormented us cos he the whole Pak team was good. It was #2 in that era (80's).

If Imran was playing today, I can bet you he would NOT have let Pak come to this stage.

Hmm.. Sachin Tendulkar and Brian Lara couldn't prevent India and WI being mediocre in '90s and 2000s respectively.

I think Imran today would only have been able to slow it down on his own, but the results wouldn't have been much different.

In fact India should thank Saeed Anwar and Sanath Jayasurya for their retirements.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Hmm.. Sachin Tendulkar and Brian Lara couldn't prevent India and WI being mediocre in '90s and 2000s respectively.

I think Imran today would only have been able to slow it down on his own, but the results wouldn't have been much different.

In fact India should thank Saeed Anwar and Sanath Jayasurya for their retirements.

Nope Imran wouldn't have single handedly won games.

But here's what he would have done:

1. Got the right players in and thrown out the bad ones.

2. Given the right kind of guidance of new players who have it in them to become future stars.

3. Infuse winning mentality in the Pak team.

Imran gave the world Wasim and Inzi.

He was a huge supporter of Abdul Qadir.

So yes, Imran WOULD HAVE made significant impact on the team.

There is no question about it.

 

[tempus123]

Nope Imran wouldn't have single handedly won games.

But here's what he would have done:

1. Got the right players in and thrown out the bad ones.

2. Given the right kind of guidance of new players who have it in them to become future stars.

3. Infuse winning mentality in the Pak team.

Imran gave the world Wasim and Inzi.

He was a huge supporter of Abdul Qadir.

So yes, Imran WOULD HAVE made significant impact on the team.

There is no question about it.

These things are almost very much true for Ganguly also, but no opposition is thankful that he retired.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

These things are almost very much true for Ganguly also, but no opposition is thankful that he retired.

Yes. Imran personally developed bowlers. Ganguly brought in winning mentality. He didn't personally develop any batsman.

Imran is definitely better than Ganguly for sure.

Dude, I love your unbiased comments but sometimes you argue for the sake of arguing.

Look at the context in which I made my comment and that should tell you all.

 

[WebGuru]

Nope Imran wouldn't have single handedly won games.

But here's what he would have done:

1. Got the right players in and thrown out the bad ones.

2. Given the right kind of guidance of new players who have it in them to become future stars.

3. Infuse winning mentality in the Pak team.

Imran gave the world Wasim and Inzi.

He was a huge supporter of Abdul Qadir.

So yes, Imran WOULD HAVE made significant impact on the team.

There is no question about it.

I agree with most of what you said IK was not only a captain he was a selector within the team and he proved his selection with output.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I agree with most of what you said IK was not only a captain he was a selector within the team and he proved his selection with output.

Yeah agree.

If not anything else, atleast he would have made his team a bunch of fighters.

From there on, he would have put pressure on selectors into giving a team he wants.

My dad (Who watched Imran) says that he was a great player but always had some anger/hatred (maybe hatred is a wrong word) when playing against India.

Is it true?

 

[WebGuru]

My dad (Who watched Imran) says that he was a great player but always had some anger/hatred (maybe hatred is a wrong word) when playing against India.

Is it true?

I think it's more to do with rivalry on field and thn there were some situations where both teams played for draws with negative tactics instead of winning/losing so things like this can happen but there are several interviews/clips i have seen where Imran praised that indian team and he always praised 3 batsmen of his era. Zaheer, Sunny and Viv.

Recently in commentary Ramiz told Sunny that Imran used to tell him that learn from Sunny how to bat by watching him when he is batting against us.

 

[saiyan0312]

I think it's more to do with rivalry on field and thn there were some situations where both teams played for draws with negative tactics instead of winning/losing so things like this can happen but there are several interviews/clips i have seen where Imran praised that indian team and he always praised 3 batsmen of his era. Zaheer, Sunny and Viv.

Recently in commentary Ramiz told Sunny that Imran used to tell him that learn from Sunny how to bat by watching him when he is batting against us.

Good advice... Gavasker was a great opener. To bad it didnt take root in rameez. Imran does hold gavasker very highly... We should tell the same to our current batsmen. Watch his clips.

 

[tempus123]

Yes. Imran personally developed bowlers. Ganguly brought in winning mentality. He didn't personally develop any batsman.

Imran is definitely better than Ganguly for sure.

Dude, I love your unbiased comments but sometimes you argue for the sake of arguing.

Look at the context in which I made my comment and that should tell you all.

By developing, you mean to say Pakistani bowlers weren't polished material and Indian batsmen were ? What about confidence of a secured place in the side which was given to Yuvraj/Sehwag/Harbhajan which helped them polish too.. IMO, it's also called developing them.

I don't see much difference b/w the two captains.

I just objected to his retirement being celebrated by any opposition. It's not about Imran, no one's retirement would make opposition thankful.

I understand you were just praising Imran and understand the context too. You clarified it's not the factual answer. So, nothing against you.

It's just that cliche I am arguing against, and yes, you are right, sometimes I argue for the sake of it, when I see such cliches, over-glorifying a player. I am sorry, but I will continue to do so, even if it is done to glorify my favourite players like Imran.

 

[Robert]

That's true, but it looks weird that a flat track is prepared which suited the opposition batsmen.

It didn't suit either bowling side. The England attack got hit for 707-7. Even Imran, Wasim and Qadir could only take 14 England wickets on it. Such wickets should be dug up!

The Oval groundsmen handed Murali a raging bunsen in 1998 and he got 15 wickets in the match, helping SL to an innings victory.

 

[tempus123]

I think it's more to do with rivalry on field and thn there were some situations where both teams played for draws with negative tactics instead of winning/losing so things like this can happen but there are several interviews/clips i have seen where Imran praised that indian team and he always praised 3 batsmen of his era. Zaheer, Sunny and Viv.

Recently in commentary Ramiz told Sunny that Imran used to tell him that learn from Sunny how to bat by watching him when he is batting against us.

Good of Imran to consider advising his teammates to learn from opposition players, but seriously, anyone can advise this. Did Rameez not figure it out himself whom to watch and learn from ? Why did he need Imran to tell him that ?

 

[WebGuru]

Good of Imran to consider advising his teammates to learn from opposition players, but seriously, anyone can advise this. Did Rameez not figure it out himself whom to watch and learn from ? Why did he need Imran to tell him that ?

Not all the batmen are smart enough to fix their technique.

 

[tempus123]

Not all the batmen are smart enough to fix their technique.

True, but would Imran advising him make him smarter to realize he should look toward Sunny ? Why do I see a hint of Imran being credited for doing nothing more than giving an advice ? I know you only posted it to clarify he didn't hate Indians, but it may be taken more ..

As an aside, Sunny's coach used to advise him to model on HM.

 

[tempus123]

It didn't suit either bowling side. The England attack got hit for 707-7. Even Imran, Wasim and Qadir could only take 14 England wickets on it. Such wickets should be dug up!

The Oval groundsmen handed Murali a raging bunsen in 1998 and he got 15 wickets in the match, helping SL to an innings victory.

Yes, I am not saying England does doctor the pitch to suit themselves. But if you prepare flat tracks, what's the purpose it is going to serve ? Either you don't have confidence in your team's abilities or just preparing for a draw.

 

[WebGuru]

True, but would Imran advising him make him smarter to realize he should look toward Sunny ? Why do I see a hint of Imran being credited for doing nothing more than giving an advice ? I know you only posted it to clarify he didn't hate Indians, but it may be taken more ..

As an aside, Sunny's coach used to advise him to model on HM.

If you want i can take my words back dear, It looks like you are turning every other post/statement into a debate/argument.

 

[tempus123]

If you want i can take my words back dear, It looks like you are turning every other post/statement into a debate/argument.

Yes... please. Nothing deliberate though, I am just seeing many such posts today which are giving slightly undue credit to their fav players

I don't see anything wrong in putting perspective to every post, even if it doesn't suit someone. I saw you many times jump in to defend Imran when he was unduly criticised. I didn't question your motives then.

Why is it fine to jump in defending some player being wrongly criticised, but not fair to do so when a player is being given undue praise ?

 

[WebGuru]

Yes... please. Nothing deliberate though, I am just seeing many such posts today

ok done happy?

 

[KPfan]

If you want i can take my words back dear, It looks like you are turning every other post/statement into a debate/argument.

True.

He's having an argument with Robert on England preparing flat pitches, with you on Sunny's advice and one with Sensible Indian fan on Imran not being the "tormentor" of India - all on the same thread - one having a different context all together. And the thread hasn't even reached 50 posts.

I get headaches reading his posts sometimes. And we have had 1500 of them in less than a month.

Edit: Mods, please don't ban me for this. I have already got an infarction.

 

[WebGuru]

Yes... please. Nothing deliberate though, I am just seeing many such posts today which are giving slightly undue credit to players

TBH when i saw your that post in cornered tiger thread i was really disappointed today i wasn't expecting a post like this from you which derailed the whole thread and thn all posts were deleted.

 

[tempus123]

TBH when i saw your that post in cornered tiger thread i was really disappointed today i wasn't expecting a post like this from you which derailed the whole thread and thn all posts were deleted.

That was a bit over the top post from me.. and I am sorry I made that. There was no need to mock India in that thread..

Please read my (edited) post 45 again.

 

[tempus123]

True.

He's having an argument with Robert on England preparing flat pitches, with you on Sunny's advice and one with Sensible Indian fan on Imran not being the "tormentor" of India - all on the same thread - one having a different context all together. And the thread hasn't even reached 50 posts.

I get headaches reading his posts sometimes. And we have had 1500 of them in less than a month.

Edit: Mods, please don't ban me for this. I have already got an infarction.

Nothing wrong with me doing 3 arguments in the same thread. I am not sure why you don't like that. Is there anything wrong I said ? Please read #45.

I am sorry you got headache reading my posts, but nothing much I can do about it. But thanks for paying them attention. Fans like you keep me going on posting.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

By developing, you mean to say Pakistani bowlers weren't polished material and Indian batsmen were ? What about confidence of a secured place in the side which was given to Yuvraj/Sehwag/Harbhajan which helped them polish too.. IMO, it's also called developing them.

I don't see much difference b/w the two captains.

I just objected to his retirement being celebrated by any opposition. It's not about Imran, no one's retirement would make opposition thankful.

I understand you were just praising Imran and understand the context too. You clarified it's not the factual answer. So, nothing against you.

It's just that cliche I am arguing against, and yes, you are right, sometimes I argue for the sake of it, when I see such cliches, over-glorifying a player. I am sorry, but I will continue to do so, even if it is done to glorify my favourite players like Imran.

What cliche did I use?

That we Indians are lucky Imran isn't playing?

Tell me one other guy who mentioned this statement or any variation of it.

Everyone just says Imran is great, his team is great, etc.

What cliche did I talk about?

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

I think it's more to do with rivalry on field and thn there were some situations where both teams played for draws with negative tactics instead of winning/losing so things like this can happen but there are several interviews/clips i have seen where Imran praised that indian team and he always praised 3 batsmen of his era. Zaheer, Sunny and Viv.

Recently in commentary Ramiz told Sunny that Imran used to tell him that learn from Sunny how to bat by watching him when he is batting against us.

Thanks for the answer.

Clears up things.

Yeah there were some tough times (politically) when India - Pak matches were going on those days where losing was NOT an option.

 

[tempus123]

What cliche did I use?

That we Indians are lucky Imran isn't playing?

Tell me one other guy who mentioned this statement or any variation of it.

Everyone just says Imran is great, his team is great, etc.

What cliche did I talk about?

Only that India is LUCKY Imran is not playing today (and took retirement).

As I said, you already clarified it wasn't a factual answer so all is fine.

There were other comments in this thread too which talked about no one comes close to Imran (Bradman/Viv including)..

 

[tempus123]

Why is it fine to jump in defending some player being wrongly criticised, but not fair to do so when a player is being given undue praise ?

I think both should be considered equally, and calling them "derailer" is not right.

 

[WebGuru]

Please read my (edited) post 45 again.

Why is it fine to jump in defending some player being wrongly criticised, but not fair to do so when a player is being given undue praise ?

I think both should be considered equally, and calling them "derailer" is not right.

Where is he given undue praise? By calling him great cricketer or great captain/selector? I call sachin, sunny and kapil great cricketers too so is that means i am giving them undue praise?

 

[Robert]

Yes, I am not saying England does doctor the pitch to suit themselves. But if you prepare flat tracks, what's the purpose it is going to serve ? Either you don't have confidence in your team's abilities or just preparing for a draw.

Neither of those alternatives. There is no purpose at all, because ECB groundsmen do not doctor the wickets. They are told to make ones that hold up for five days to maximise ticket and TV revenue.

 

[tempus123]

Where is he given undue praise? By calling him great cricketer or great captain/selector? I call sachin, sunny and kapil great cricketers too so is that means i am giving them undue praise?

No, that is not undue praise, because IK was a great captain/player. You already know what is undue praise and what's not.

I don't understand why you commented that I was turning every comment/post into an argument .. or kind of derailing it, whereas I was only pointing out to 'certain' (not all) over-glorification of IK. IMHO, I was not wrong in doing it, even if it means certain people not liking their favourite players' over glorification being put in perspective. What's that bit about no one including Bradman/Viv coming close to the legend of IK ?

You should point fingers at them and not me. Don't say they are die hard fans and have every right to over praise. I don't agree.

Anyway, it's enough. Let it rest now.

 

[tempus123]

Neither of those alternatives. There is no purpose at all, because ECB groundsmen do not doctor the wickets. They are told to make ones that hold up for five days to maximise ticket and TV revenue.

A dull batsman oriented Test match maximises ticket and TV revenues ?

 

[Robert]

A dull batsman oriented Test match maximises ticket and TV revenues ?

It wasn't dull. There was Javed's 260, then England getting skittled in their first dig, then Gatting and Botham nursing the crippled plane home throughout the last day.

 

[lilFlip]

OMG Indians are here.

Sehwag > Day light > Moon light > Viv Richards

Kapil Dev > Day light > Moon light > Imran Khan

Don Bradman > Day light > Moon light > Sachin

/thread

 

[tempus123]

OMG Indians are here.

Sehwag > Day light > Moon light > Viv Richards

Kapil Dev > Day light > Moon light > Imran Khan

Don Bradman > Day light > Moon light > Sachin

/thread

Who claimed about the 1st one ? The rest of the 2 aren't that laughable.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

OMG Indians are here.

Sehwag > Day light > Moon light > Viv Richards

Kapil Dev > Day light > Moon light > Imran Khan

Don Bradman > Day light > Moon light > Sachin

/thread

Sarcasm fail.

Go back and try again.

Your comment about Viv being the only one who can be compared to Imran (implying Imran was the benchmark for swag) was the funniest.

So go back and try another angle.

 

[tempus123]

Sarcasm fail.

Go back and try again.

Your comment about Viv being the only one who can be compared to Imran (implying Imran was the benchmark for swag) was the funniest.

So go back and try another angle.

Viv being compared with Imran.. ha ha ha..

You were right, it's the other way round.

 

[Robert]

Imran said he had nightmares about Sir Viv. In his dream they were both gunslingers and Sir Viv kept out-drawing him.

 

[kamranwasti]

Imran said he had nightmares about Sir Viv. In his dream they were both gunslingers and Sir Viv kept out-drawing him.

Yes - the gunslinger point is mentioned in both his first autobiography and the second.

In fact, Imran, Botham, Lillee, Willis and a host of others are on record to have confirmed that Richards was the ONLY batsman in the whole wide world that gave them jitters.

There is no point comparing Richards with the rest. Nobody today would walk out without a chest pad, helmet and an arm guard and hook Shoaib Akhtar, Brett Lee or Shaun Tate out of the park. You can understand the impact it would make if someone actually started doing it regularly. That is what Richards did.

Imran, Botham, Kapil Dev and Hadlee were understandably the leading players of their teams and were bound to be their mascots. You can say the same about Tendulkar today - he was the best in the Indian line-up (though my favourites have always been Mohinder Amarnath and Rahul Dravid). But Viv was in a different league. It's no joke that a team whose trademark was a battery of all-time great fast-bowlers had Viv as its mascot.

 

[Robert]

Yes - the gunslinger point is mentioned in both his first autobiography and the second.

In fact, Imran, Botham, Lillee, Willis and a host of others are on record to have confirmed that Richards was the ONLY batsman in the whole wide world that gave them jitters.

Willis said that bowlers should be allowed to bowl at Richards from eleven yards to make it fairer.

Botham bowled a booming outswinger to Richards during that lathering in the famous 1984 ODI. Richards stepped outside the line of the ball and smashed it through widwicket for four. Botham said "That's not fair! That was a really good ball and you've hit it the wrong way!" Richards grinned and carried on chewing gum.....

 

[tempus123]

Why has this thread moved away from Imran to praising Viv now ?

 

[kamranwasti]

Willis said that bowlers should be allowed to bowl at Richards from eleven yards to make it fairer.

Botham bowled a booming outswinger to Richards during that lathering in the famous 1984 ODI. Richards stepped outside the line of the ball and smashed it through widwicket for four. Botham said "That's not fair! That was a really good ball and you've hit it the wrong way!" Richards grinned and carried on chewing gum.....

I remember a casual flick during that innings... they didn't show the ball where it went but the umpire signaled six and Richie Benaud was at his effortless best and of course Botham spat out a galaxy of expletives.

 

[kamranwasti]

Why has this thread moved away from Imran to praising Viv now ?

This is way of the world of forums. You start off with Don Bradman's socks and end up with buttermilk served in some remote outskirt of Lahore.

In any case, accept my apologies.

 

[tempus123]

This is way of the world of forums. You start off with Don Bradman's socks and end up with buttermilk served in some remote outskirt of Lahore.

In any case, accept my apologies.

No, I myself am guilty of doing it, and I am not complaining about it..

 

[kamranwasti]

One of the most telling Imran Khan shows was his bowling in the 1986 series against the West Indies - 3 tests - 18 wickets @ 11 and less than 2 runs per over.

Phenomenal is an understatement.

 

[WebGuru]

One of the most telling Imran Khan shows was his bowling in the 1986 series against the West Indies - 3 tests - 18 wickets @ 11 and less than 2 runs per over.

Phenomenal is an understatement.

In First Test match of that series Imran and Abdul Qadir performance was amazing. West Indies chasing 240 in 4th innings got all out at 53 and all the 10 batsmen were dismissed by Imran and Abdul Qadir. Abdul Qadir dismissed Viv on a duck while Imran dismissed Haynes and Dujon on a duck in that innings.

 

[Haroon786]

Definantly my favorite cricketer, for people who think that he cherry picked the tests he played in are wrong (no one in this thread) he played nigh on 20 seasons of country cricket which used to be ridiculously hectic aswell as International cricket.

 

[akheR]

on 's all round abilities

"If I was asked to pick who was the better of the four of us, and I am on record as saying Imran because he was a versatile batsman, potent strike bowler and charismatic captain," he said.

"As a batsman, he could bat anywhere in the top six, sometimes in the top four, and play any type of innings depending on the circumstance of the game.

"As a bowler, he was a potent strike bowler ... His record suggests he was a fine bowler. He was also a charismatic person, a good and successful captain for Pakistan. He had a lot of respect, he had the package," Hadlee added.

http://articles.timesofindia.indiat...es/41422371_1_bowler-reverse-swing-imran-khan

 

[Haroon786]

^ Yep that has been discussed previously on a different thread

 

[akheR]

Imran Khan's bowling

His action, for example, when he began in the early 70s, looking like a misplaced Beatle with a mop top, had more windmills in it than Holland, and was as flat. Yet by 1982 it had become such a leaping study in the beauty and grace of the human form, all it needed was a catwalk; to half the human race it was a mating call. Visually it was as unrecognisable from his natural action as the Michael Jackson of 2008 was from the Michael Jackson of 1978. It came about after much consultation with greybeards and contemporaries and defiance of others, but above everything, from an inner voice that told him he could be far more than what he was.

His bowling itself underwent several recalibrations of pace, length, attitude and modes. When he began, he couldn't control big, booming inswingers of modest pace. But when cricket was gripped by a prolonged vogue of bouncers from the mid-70s on, Imran unthinkingly jumped in. When the run-up and rhythm were right, he was sharp, and he targeted heads with commendable indiscrimination.

But by the early 80s, a scholarship in Kerry Packer's World Series with the world's best to the good, and quicker still, he was hitting fuller lengths and ignoring the surface. He was swinging the new ball but more radically, the old; 40 wickets in the 1982-83 series against India in Pakistan was a mind-altering moment in fast bowling.

Then, post shin-injury, another face. The pace came down but the mind remained sharp; nearing 35 he took over 20 wickets in leading Pakistan to their first series win in England; a year later he took 23 in a three-Test series in the Caribbean; even at 37 he bowled a remarkable, long-forgotten two-wicket maiden last over of an ODI in Sydney, which Pakistan won by two runs.

And batting

Nowhere more than in his batting did he inflict - and that really is the word - upon himself such stark transformation. The epiphany came in his very first Test as captain, until when he had been a free, reckless spirit in the lower order. A careless hook off Bob Willis ended a careless innings, and immediately he resolved to become more responsible; there was no harsher critic of Imran than Imran, not even slighted ex-players from Karachi. It didn't require the structural re-jigging of his bowling, for his batting was built on sounder, correct principles. In his head he had always been a batsman, even if in his blood he felt the flow of manlier pursuits. All it needed was for his mind to win. Obviously it did.

A solid 65, batting mostly with the tail in the second innings, was, in his words, a "watershed". The conclusion cannot be doubted; in his last 50 Tests after that, he averaged twice - nearly 52 - what he did before. He quintupled his century haul and quadrupled his fifties. More immeasurably, by career's end he was the calmest, most versatile influence on a batting line-up forever a wicket or two from panic.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/484398.html

 

[Haroon786]

Brilliant article.

 

[akheR]

Brilliant article.

One of Samiuddin's very best surely, beautiful prose, but the comment section is plagued by jingoistic zealous Indians desperately making a case for 's fantasized superiority which somehow degrades it.

In First Test match of that series Imran and Abdul Qadir performance was amazing. West Indies chasing 240 in 4th innings got all out at 53 and all the 10 batsmen were dismissed by Imran and Abdul Qadir. Abdul Qadir dismissed Viv on a duck while Imran dismissed Haynes and Dujon on a duck in that innings.

That's the scorecard

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63441.html

Interesting to note that in Pak's first innings, Immy was the highest-scorer with a fluent (SR 80) 61, the second best batsman being Mudassar Nazar with 26.

West Indies' pace quartet dominated the opening day after Pakistan had chosen to bat first, only Imran resisting as he saw his side from 37 for five to 159. He lost Salim Malik at 90, his arm broken just above the wrist, but found an ally in Tauseef Ahmed and the last wicket put on 39

That was the first match of the series of WI in Pak, that was squared 1-1 (3).
And you know why the third and last match was a draw ?

Because of Immy's nearly-300 minutes long 58*

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63542.html

Imran Khan's fighting, unbeaten 58, and his defiant stand of 67 for the fifth wicket with Masood Anwar, making his Test début, saved Pakistan not only the match but the series. Needing 346 for victory, they were 110 for four on the final morning when Imran joined night-watchman Anwar, and he kept the West Indian bowlers at bay for just over four hours.

which basically means he could hit Marshall-Ambrose-Bishop @ SR +160 to win the match for the team or Tuk-Tuk his way into the 50s when a draw remained the best option, so the word "versatile" used by Sir Richard Hadlee definitely epitomized Immy's batting spirit.

 

[Haroon786]

One of Samiuddin's very best surely, beautiful prose, but the comment section is plagued by jingoistic zealous Indians desperately making a case for 's fantasized superiority which somehow degrades it.



That's the scorecard

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63441.html

Interesting to note that in Pak's first innings, Immy was the highest-scorer with a fluent (SR 80) 61, the second best batsman being Mudassar Nazar with 26.

Was very surprised when i first found out that Imran the politician was actually one of the best cricketers ever.

 

[Haroon786]

Could anyone post his stats in series against NZ and what Hadlee got as well too ?