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India (171/7) hand a crushing defeat to England (103) by 68 runs to secure their spot in the finals of the ICC T20 World Cup 2024

aboveandbeyond said:
Buttler and Mott need to resign from their respective posts imminently.
How on earth they could not read the wicket is baffling. Buttler basically handed India the game when he decided to field first.

Had England batted first, and any sscore of 150 and the chocking demons would have come back and haunted India again.
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He thought India will be given a target of 80 or 90 in 10 overs if DLS comes into play. He knew he and his team can't score 160 on this pitch and was hoping for that 80 to 90 target in 10 overs. In hindsight it wasn't the Indians that were praying for rain. It was the English
 
Sir Alex said:
Ind treated Eng spinners carefully so that they preserve wickets and have that go at Enf seamers - especially that joke Jordan.

England had absolutely no plan to counter 12 overs of Indian spin. How many times did a after step out to drive the spinners ? I remember only once in the full innings
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Rashid didn't bowl well. As Butler confessed he made a mistake by not bowling Moeen. He tried to slip in an over of Livingstone right after rain break as he knew Indians would be assessing the conditions. When the over went well, he continued with him. It wasn't threatening and they.milked him for 6 rpo
 
Jos Buttler in a Post Match presentation:

"They certainly outplayed us, I think maybe we let them get 20-25 runs too many. That was a challenging surface that they played well on. But they outplayed us and fully deserved the win."

"Obviously, they've [India] got some fantastic spinners," Buttler said. "Our two guys bowled well, but in hindsight, I should have brought Moeen Ali [on] in that innings, with the way that the spin was playing."

"Obviously with the rain around in those conditions, I probably didn't think it was going to change that much," he added. "And I actually don't think it really did. I thought they out-bowled us. They had an above-par score. So I don't think necessarily the toss was the difference between the teams."

“We will review everything and come up with a plan, absolutely,”

“You have to review what we need to do better as a team, if that is the way we play, personnel, style of cricket. After a loss like that you are ready for a bit of space to take it in and process it so you can review not just this game but the last few months."

“I think there is lots of talent in the English game. It is up to us as an England team and country to harness that talent and development and make sure we can continue to have a good team moving forward. There’s some time between today and the next matches so we’ll see what happens.”
 
Cricket Warrior said:
Michael Vaugh via his X account said:

"England will have lost 3 out of 4 games to the Top teams so they can’t have any complaints .. Just haven’t been good enough .. on the back of the 50 over WC it just clarifies that England have work to do playing on slower wickets"

"If England had beaten SA they would have got the Trinidad semi and I believe they would have won that game .. So no complaints they haven’t been good enough .. But Guyana has been a lovely venue pick for India"

"India throughly deserve to be in the final .. The best team in tournament so far .. Was always going to hard for England on this pitch, India just so much better on lower slower spinning pitches"
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Next time we should say on English pitch England are definitely the WC winners.

That’s why everyone prefers Aussies over English whiners
 
After Indian inning I went to sleep, today early morning checked match results… it’s’ India wins by 68 runs. Wow what a performance by Indian team…. Despite the failures of Kohli, Pant and Dubey, India is victorious
 
Also congratulations to Devadwal… this fellow was rooting for England victory… nothing comes in his favor after Indian election
 
jnaveen1980 said:
Day match does not give advantage to any team. D/N matches are always a lottery. If 2021 world T20 were all day matches we would have seen a different winner.
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Perfect comedy is that eng trashed aus when aus batted first and aus decimated rest by winning every toss there after and chasing all the time.
 
I never thought that England will be so pathetic in this game. No real fight was given by them.
 
Mamoon said:
No one is supporting any other team. Pakistanis fans have made peace with the fact that their team is in very poor shape right now and they wish to see things better. Gone are the days when Pakistani fans were delusional about their own team, so I don't have the need to show them the mirror. Now it is time to expose time wake Indian fans up to the reality of their fraudulent legends.

Pathetic is subjective. Pakistan is pathetic, I agree, but I would also Indian players to that list.

Indian players have zero talent, zero skill and zero mental strength. They have achieved the bare minimum of what any team would have achieved had their board exercised the power and influence BCCI has.

Losing the 2023 World Cup Final cemented the legacy of these frauds.
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Pathetic or whatever, it is the end result that counts. India reached the 2023 WC final umbeaten, and have done so even in this T20 WC. Losing the final can happen, particularly against strong teams like Australia or maybe even SA. No shame in that.
And it's hilarious that Pakistanis attribute all of India's successes to the alleged influence and cheating by BCCI . From providing the Indian team with 'special balls' in the 2023 WC to Arshdeep Singh tampering the ball to get reverse swing, your 'experts' have been downright clownish in their attempts to defame India.
And these 'experts' are those who have represented Pakistan in the highest form of the game.
If I were a Pakistani, I'd worry more about the mental sanity of your past heroes than anything the BCCI or ICC may or may not be doing.
 
Jos Buttler (England Captain) post-match Press Conference - 27th June 2024

[Reporter:]

Jos, what are your immediate reflections on that?

[Jos Buttler:]

Yeah, disappointing. I think we were outplayed by India. They fully deserved the victory. So, yeah, I thought they had an above-par score. I was hoping to restrict them to 145 - 150 probably on that pitch. It was always going to be a tough chase from there.

[Reporter:]

Do you think that was a failure of plans or execution?

[Jos Buttler:]

A little bit of both. I thought they played well as well. I thought we bowled a little bit without luck in the power play, a few close calls there. But, yes, I think the benefit of hindsight and reflecting, I would have got Moeen [Ali] in the game of course. So, yes, bits and pieces here and there.

[Reporter:]

With hindsight again, is there anything you would have done differently in selection or at the toss?

[Jos Buttler:]

Not at the toss. I don't think that was the difference between the two sides. We thought long and hard about selection, about whether we kept the same balance that we'd been playing with that had been working well, or did we need four seamers on that particular wicket. I think that was a really tough call that we made and we ended up sticking with what we had. I think India played a really good game of cricket, whatever team or whatever happened at the toss - they were going to be a tough team to beat and we had to be at our best if we were going to win the game and we were short of our best today.

[Reporter:]

I appreciate it straight after the defeat but how do you reflect on the tournament as a whole and reaching this stage and the time of elimination?

[Jos Buttler:]

Yes, I think reaching a semi-final of a World Cup is an achievement. We wanted to obviously go all the way. That was what we came here for. We faced lots of challenges and adversity throughout the whole tournament and we've stuck together well and played well enough to get to this stage. But unfortunately, at this stage, we've fallen short.

[Reporter:]

Do you feel like the team is still making progress? Are there going to have to be big changes after this?

[Jos Buttler:]

No, I think I look back to Leeds when we all met up. I think everyone has made progress and we've played well and not well enough, but I think the stuff that we've been doing behind the scenes, the way we've prepared, the way we've trained, the way we've played in patches has been really good. And there's a lot of talent in the team. And yes, we came up against a top team today in these conditions.

[Reporter:]

Just in terms of what comes next, obviously, there's a long time until your next play. What will you reflect on in those few months?

[Jos Buttler:]

To be honest, I'm just looking forward to some time away from the game. I think, as I sit here, emotional after a loss, I don't need to dive too deep into it right now. I just look forward to some space from the game.

[Reporter:]

The ball was turning viciously and there were close infielders, very close to the bat and ball was also staying low. At any point of time, did you feel like playing in India for a Test Series, although you were not there in the Test Series, but did it feel like an Indian pitch?

[Jos Buttler:]

I think everyone knew what to expect from this wicket. I think traditionally the bounce is low. And yeah, I thought India played really well and they played the conditions better than we did.

[Reporter:]

If I can take the liberty to ask you any thoughts on the final, who could be doing well?

[Jos Buttler:]

I think the two top sides in the final is going to be a game of small margins and it's going to be a great game. Two really good teams.

[Reporter:]

I'm saying, after two World Cups in six months, you've got a few older players, senior players in the team. Would you expect the next time you see the team to be a bit of a fresher team, a couple of changes to freshen things up?

[Jos Buttler:]

Yeah, I think... I can't do that. I haven’t taken in the defeat. Very much thinking about this game and what happened and yeah, I think they say there's some time between today and the next matches, and we can see what happens.
 
Axar Patel (India player) post-match Press Conference - 27th June 2024

[Reporter:]

What was your game plan when you put up such a big target of 170 and there was a lot of pressure in powerplay?

[Axar Patel:]

I think we could have easily defended at 170. It was a very good score. The way the wicket was behaving, when we spoke to Rohit [Sharma], he said it was very difficult to hit a big shot because the odd ball is spinning and the odd ball is also staying down, skidding on. So that was our thought that 150-160 is a very good score, we can defend it. So, when we made 170, we knew that we made 10-15 runs more and the plan was the same - Obviously, it is difficult in powerplay, but when you know that you are getting help from the wicket, then at that time, without thinking much, without doing any extra work, I thought that the more I keep it simple, the easier it will be for me. Because, when we talked in the dressing room that it's not an easy wicket, then after that batsman came and told me that he will charge something else, it's not that easy for me to hit in front, and I couldn't hit from the back foot because the ball was not coming. My plan was to make it difficult for him and force him to think of playing some new shot. So, that’s what happened on the first ball. That was our plan.

[Reporter:]

When you went to bat, you must have felt the pitch. Do the other teams – England team get worried in front of Indian spinners?

[Axar Patel:]

I can't say that anyone gets worried. Obviously, both have the same pitch. I don't think they get stressed. It's all about pressure. When you score and chase, you know that the wicket is helping the bowler in that pressure. So, as an opener, who plays in the top 4, they think that they will take advantage of the power play as much as possible. So, I think their thinking will be that they went to take advantage of the power play, but they didn't get success. Obviously, I don't think they feel more pressure in front of Indians.

When I went to bat, I knew that when fast bowlers were bowling, everyone was bowling slower and I knew that they were bowling slower - but still not able to hit. The ball was not coming at the speed I wanted so I couldn't connect properly.

Obviously, I got a clue from that as to what I could do and what I couldn't…The length ball was easy for me. It was easy to hit the ball at a good area. I feel that no one has hit me at a good length ball. It was important to hit the ball at a good length and line. I felt that felt when I came to powerplay. That's what I did.

[Reporter:]

You got a wicket on the first ball of every over. Can you tell us about that? Is it difficult to hit big shots in sweep and reverse sweep?

[Axar Patel:]

I think, I didn't plan to hit wickets on first ball. I had a mindset that I have to put it in a good place. Obviously, when you play knockouts, your mindset is that you should start and finish the first and last ball well. That was in my mind. Obviously, every time I did well with the wicket, that was a plus point. I think it was difficult to hit big shots and it was difficult to hit sweep and reverse sweep because if the ball was down on this wicket, you can't connect it so easily. Because batsmen have a doubt that if I go to sweep, if the ball is down, I can hit it on the pad. It depends on what line length you put. Mostly our spinners kept it stump to stump. So, it was very difficult to hit sweep rewards on this wicket.

And to hit the front, you have to hit the front as much as possible, but as we saw in the videos, his batsmen are a bit on the backfoot, so he didn't get it so easily. He has to take out his leg and you have to take a step forward and play on this wicket, whatever type of wicket.

[Reporter:]

All three spinners are doing a great show. Do you think that you guys talk to each other a lot about how to bowl? You have a different style. Kuldeep [Yadav] has a different style. You guys say that the pacers are hunting pair, you are hunting trio.

[Axar Patel:]

See, obviously communication becomes very important in big matches. And I think all of us, whatever matches we played, we thought that this is a big competition for us. We were playing with the same mindset. We were trying to communicate as much as possible when we were scoring first or second over. We were able to understand what was happening in the wicket.

Obviously, I keep talking to Jadeja and Kuldeep that when I bowl in the first over, this is what is happening in the wicket, this is not happening. I think the fast ball is stopping a little bit. So, when Jaddu bowl in the ball in the first over, after that when I had a 10-over break, I told him that our line length is stopping a little bit here, so it is easy for them to cut. You can go a little higher and vary in pace. It is not that easy on this wicket.

After that, they bowled well. Communication is very important here. We keep doing the same in between the overs and whenever we get time.

[Reporter:]

Last match you had a great catch and now a great spell. How does it feel on that, contributing to this win?

[Axar Patel:]

Obviously, it feels very good when you perform and the team wins. I think not a good idea to perform on a knockout match alone only. Good idea to perform on a knockout match and you got a man of the match so obviously feeling good and I'm feeling good that we win the match.

When you perform and if team doesn't do well then it doesn't matter - so I think feeling good we are close to the one step and close to the trophy.

So yeah, feeling good.
 
mominsaigol said:
Butler and rohit in both their primes are the same tier. Rohit has gotten higher 200 scores because he opens while butler is a no 7 in odi, ut both have played freak innings consistently and single handidely won games.

Rn on current form butler is Mile's better then rohit who's basically just a one hit wonder now.

Salt vs kohli on current form isn't close. What had kohli done this tournament?

As for Pant and sky they've done no such this in this tournament.
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Kohli's mere presence on the field is enough to freak this England side.
 
Cricket Warrior said:
Michael Vaugh via his X account said:

"England will have lost 3 out of 4 games to the Top teams so they can’t have any complaints .. Just haven’t been good enough .. on the back of the 50 over WC it just clarifies that England have work to do playing on slower wickets"

"If England had beaten SA they would have got the Trinidad semi and I believe they would have won that game .. So no complaints they haven’t been good enough .. But Guyana has been a lovely venue pick for India"

"India throughly deserve to be in the final .. The best team in tournament so far .. Was always going to hard for England on this pitch, India just so much better on lower slower spinning pitches"
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https://twitter.com/x/status/1806462934974976009
 
You can see that Rohit is crying here probably because he took revenge for their 2022 semi-final defeat but he won't be able to do the same for the 2023 Odi World Cup final defeat.

wYURVkC.png
 
Cricket Warrior said:
Michael Vaugh via his X account said:

"England will have lost 3 out of 4 games to the Top teams so they can’t have any complaints .. Just haven’t been good enough .. on the back of the 50 over WC it just clarifies that England have work to do playing on slower wickets"

"If England had beaten SA they would have got the Trinidad semi and I believe they would have won that game .. So no complaints they haven’t been good enough .. But Guyana has been a lovely venue pick for India"

"India throughly deserve to be in the final .. The best team in tournament so far .. Was always going to hard for England on this pitch, India just so much better on lower slower spinning pitches"
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He is such a conflicted guy. Lol.

India did not choose Guyana pitch As if.
 
Also these .Eng guys have so much of experience playing in the Carribean. They are elite international cricketers who should know how to play irrespective of pitches.

Instead the moment they saw the pitch was not a flat road, they were defeated in their minds. India has never complained about Adelaide pitch or any other pitch during losses in icc events.
 
HISTORY CREATED BY ROHIT SHARMA.

- He becomes the first ever Indian captain to score a fifty in the men's T20 World Cup Knockout match.
 
Nasser Hussain went silent after the drubbing. shastri was poking him before the finish purposefully but he went quite silent and almost speechless.
 
Hardik Pandya with bat in ICC Knockout Matches:

76 (43) vs PAK 2017
63 (33) vs ENG 2022
23 (13) vs ENG 2024

Always stepping up for his team at the big stages and made a super comeback this T20 WC after those hard times. Clutch man Pandya.
 
Michael Vaughan said "It's India's tournament, it's literally their tournament. They get to play whenever they want, they get to know exactly where their semifinal is. They get to play every single match in the morning so people could watch them at night in India. When you get to a World Cup, the ICC should be fairer to everybody. There can not be any kind of sympathy for one team in the World Cup. This tournament is purely settled for India.
 
GillEdits said:
Michael Vaughan said "It's India's tournament, it's literally their tournament. They get to play whenever they want, they get to know exactly where their semifinal is. They get to play every single match in the morning so people could watch them at night in India. When you get to a World Cup, the ICC should be fairer to everybody. There can not be any kind of sympathy for one team in the World Cup. This tournament is purely settled for India.
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It’s not India’s choice to make. Basically it’s ICC trying to milk the Indian audience as much as it can. We are the cash cows of cricket.
 
Cover Drive Six said:
Right from entering the forum, he is on the target, creating an ID just to troll. Don't take his posts seriously. You will find posters like him on Final day. Let's wait.
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Lol what are you even talking about?
My hate for India is real it's not some hidden agenda.
I speak facts and truth. It's how I m. LOL
 
Michael Vaughan, while speaking to a sports media outlet, highlighted that English batters need to learn how to bat on slow wickets:

"Harry Brook has spent a huge amount of time at the crease. He's the future of this England white-ball scene, along with the likes of Will Jacks and Jamie Smith from Surrey. The talent is there, and if he had batted for 67 more hours, who knows? England may have gotten close to the target.

When you look at Moeen Ali, Jonny Bairstow is still out, and there's confusion with the running between wickets, which is always a story. You see run-outs and point fingers, wondering why they didn't run. Jofra Archer and Liam Livingstone, yes, there's something not quite right in the communication. But I don't think England can have any complaints.

The batting unit is a good unit, but on these kinds of pitches, it's just an okay unit, even with world-class names and players who have done great things in white-ball cricket. On these surfaces, I think the likes of Pakistan, Afghanistan, and India, with their different skill sets and tricks, would fancy beating them.

England needs to get better at playing on slower wickets that offer spin. They can admit it and work on it. I think one of the biggest areas of improvement is admitting you have a problem and accepting it. English cricket has the skills and coaches to produce players who can play on these kinds of pitches, but we just saw that we got to the semi-final and did okay. We need to get better at playing on those wickets."
 
Devadwal said:
My my my my ...you deserved this humiliation :kp

What happened to elite mentality of England which you were talking about??
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Two World Cup wins in three years. Their mentality is at a completely different level to current generation of Indian players.

If India wins two World Cups in three years, half of the squad will get Bollywood biopics but England doesn’t even seem to care that much.

Losing the World Cup final in November after BCCI did everything it could to hand them the World Cup on a silver platter summed up the mentality of this generation of Indian cricketers.

If I were an Indian fan I would be absolutely livid with how much the Indian team has underachieved in the last decade in white ball cricket.

They should have won at least 3-4 tournaments after the 2013 CT.

They had absolutely no business losing the WT20 2016 semi final, CT 2017 final, and WC 2023 final.

In fact, one can argue that they should have won the WT20 2021 as well considering it was in the UAE, but the way they lost to Pakistan & New Zealand was embarrassing to say the least.
 
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GillEdits said:
Michael Vaughan said "It's India's tournament, it's literally their tournament. They get to play whenever they want, they get to know exactly where their semifinal is. They get to play every single match in the morning so people could watch them at night in India. When you get to a World Cup, the ICC should be fairer to everybody. There can not be any kind of sympathy for one team in the World Cup. This tournament is purely settled for India.
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How on earth does a pre decided venue help one team ?
 
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GillEdits said:
Michael Vaughan said "It's India's tournament, it's literally their tournament. They get to play whenever they want, they get to know exactly where their semifinal is. They get to play every single match in the morning so people could watch them at night in India. When you get to a World Cup, the ICC should be fairer to everybody. There can not be any kind of sympathy for one team in the World Cup. This tournament is purely settled for India.
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Excuses excuses and more excuses. The 2005 ashes win is all this guy clings to. On the ground- the pitch conditions are same for both teams. Even if eng had the venue choice -- i still the same thing. Its the same no matter what or which team it is. Hate sour complainers
 
Mamoon said:
Two World Cup wins in three years. Their mentality is at a completely different level to current generation of Indian players.

If India wins two World Cups in three years, half of the squad will get Bollywood biopics but England doesn’t even seem to care that much.

Losing the World Cup final in November after BCCI did everything it could to hand them the World Cup on a silver platter summed up the mentality of this generation of Indian cricketers.

If I were an Indian fan I would be absolutely livid with how much the Indian team has underachieved in the last decade in white ball cricket.

They should have won at least 3-4 tournaments after the 2013 CT.

They had absolutely no business losing the WT20 2016 semi final, CT 2017 final, and WC 2023 final.

In fact, one can argue that they should have won the WT20 2021 as well considering it was in the UAE, but the way they lost to Pakistan & New Zealand was embarrassing to say the least.
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Folks should not ignore the fact that Ind for sure underachieved the last 10 years. Yeah- no team can win all titles even if they have the best infrastructure and player pool. But yes for sure Ind should have won 3-4 titles the past 10 years.

Going forward though it's a course correction Ind is on track for. I dont see anyone other than the Big 3 winning any icc titles the next 10 years. But the next gen Ind players I think are more adaptive to pressure KO game scenarios. Also I think Aus has had one of its golden generation bowling quartet the past 10 years. Dont see that in their future bowlers - I could be wrong though

Pak though has been genuinely disappointed its supporters. Cricket is played by few nations - so want teams to be stronger for cricket's benefit. A stronger pak team is more exciting to beat than a mediocre timid one. That's why in odis- the 96 99 03 2011 wc wins were much better and exciting than the 2015 2019 2023 ones..
 
deltexas said:
Folks should not ignore the fact that Ind for sure underachieved the last 10 years. Yeah- no team can win all titles even if they have the best infrastructure and player pool. But yes for sure Ind should have won 3-4 titles the past 10 years.

Going forward though it's a course correction Ind is on track for. I dont see anyone other than the Big 3 winning any icc titles the next 10 years. But the next gen Ind players I think are more adaptive to pressure KO game scenarios. Also I think Aus has had one of its golden generation bowling quartet the past 10 years. Dont see that in their future bowlers - I could be wrong though

Pak though has been genuinely disappointed its supporters. Cricket is played by few nations - so want teams to be stronger for cricket's benefit. A stronger pak team is more exciting to beat than a mediocre timid one. That's why in odis- the 96 99 03 2011 wc wins were much better and exciting than the 2015 2019 2023 ones..
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Pakistan has reached new depths of mediocrity and incompetence, but I would expect Indian fans as well as fans of other nations to listen to constructive criticism of their teams with patience instead of focusing on where Pakistan stands right now.
 
ChennaiFan said:
English media and their former cricketers are eternal whiners. This is why I support the other team in any England vs. other team games.
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It's the media and the formers though. The present gen from Morgan's white ball era onwards are actually pretty grounded znd level headed.
 
Mamoon said:
Pakistan has reached new depths of mediocrity and incompetence, but I would expect Indian fans as well as fans of other nations to listen to constructive criticism of their teams with patience instead of focusing on where Pakistan stands right now.
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Am all for constructive criticism. The day teams think they are invincible and unbeatable is the day their decline starts. Sport is a never ending learning process no matter how long you have played. Wish we could pass some of the constructive criticism is passed along to the t20 Kohli ! 😀(not the odi test version) -- he still has the chance to play a meaningful knock in this final and finish his t20 career on a high even though he honestly doesn't deserve to be in the current T20 Ind team..
 
deltexas said:
It's the media and the formers though. The present gen from Morgan's white ball era onwards are actually pretty grounded znd level headed.
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I agree; the current generation English players play hard cricket, and behave well. I have seen interviews of Josh Butler and Johny Bairstow and noticed how down to earth they are. Still it has become a habit for me to support any team that plays England. :)
 
Mamoon said:
Two World Cup wins in three years. Their mentality is at a completely different level to current generation of Indian players.

If India wins two World Cups in three years, half of the squad will get Bollywood biopics but England doesn’t even seem to care that much.

Losing the World Cup final in November after BCCI did everything it could to hand them the World Cup on a silver platter summed up the mentality of this generation of Indian cricketers.

If I were an Indian fan I would be absolutely livid with how much the Indian team has underachieved in the last decade in white ball cricket.

They should have won at least 3-4 tournaments after the 2013 CT.

They had absolutely no business losing the WT20 2016 semi final, CT 2017 final, and WC 2023 final.

In fact, one can argue that they should have won the WT20 2021 as well considering it was in the UAE, but the way they lost to Pakistan & New Zealand was embarrassing to say the least.
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Gautam Gambhir 2007 and 2011 final performances , doesn’t even have top 5 fan following in India. Just don’t say anything, there have been only 2 biopics: Azhar and Dhoni and one for entire 1983 team, even Sachin had to settle for documentary.
 
JaDed said:
Gautam Gambhir 2007 and 2011 final performances , doesn’t even have top 5 fan following in India. Just don’t say anything, there have been only 2 biopics: Azhar and Dhoni and one for entire 1983 team, even Sachin had to settle for documentary.
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If Rohit wins it then it will be Rohit next....(IPL championship, initial struggle but generational talent from Mumbai suburbs, transformation into Test opener then double hundreds .not getting picked in world cup ..gets captainship then world cup loss and finally wins the trophy....just a great story)
 
BlackstoneRock said:
If Rohit wins it then it will be Rohit next....(IPL championship, initial struggle but generational talent from Mumbai suburbs, transformation into Test opener then double hundreds .not getting picked in world cup ..gets captainship then world cup loss and finally wins the trophy....just a great story)
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I will rather watch Joginder’s or Hardiya Pandya’s right now or this man :srini
 
ChennaiFan said:
I agree; the current generation English players play hard cricket, and behave well. I have seen interviews of Josh Butler and Johny Bairstow and noticed how down to earth they are. Still it has become a habit for me to support any team that plays England. :)
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Man- i am a big fan of Butler- how humble and simple he is. If he was an Ind opener - he would have been an absolute superstar. His ipl interviews are amazing and just shows the type of individual he is. No wonder he is called Jos bhai by his rajasthan royals ipl teammates!
 
I don't celebrate this win as much as I celebrated the 4-1 take down of England in the test series. Total satisfaction. Mostly made up of youngsters.
 
JaDed said:
Gautam Gambhir 2007 and 2011 final performances , doesn’t even have top 5 fan following in India. Just don’t say anything, there have been only 2 biopics: Azhar and Dhoni and one for entire 1983 team, even Sachin had to settle for documentary.
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India is all about hero worshipping. This why Gambhir disagrees with this culture because it has personally hurt him greatly. He doesn't get the credit and recognition that he deserved because he didn't have the narrative in his favor.

For example, everyone views Dhoni as an ATG ODI batsman, but the reality is that he was nothing special as a batsman and not even amongst the top 5 Indian batsmen in ODI history.
 
Mamoon said:
India is all about hero worshipping. This why Gambhir disagrees with this culture because it has personally hurt him greatly. He doesn't get the credit and recognition that he deserved because he didn't have the narrative in his favor.

For example, everyone views Dhoni as an ATG ODI batsman, but the reality is that he was nothing special as a batsman and not even amongst the top 5 Indian batsmen in ODI history.
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This is true. Gambhir's innings in the 2011 WC final was the reason India won, but Dhoni won the limelight.
 
Mamoon said:
India is all about hero worshipping. This why Gambhir disagrees with this culture because it has personally hurt him greatly. He doesn't get the credit and recognition that he deserved because he didn't have the narrative in his favor.

For example, everyone views Dhoni as an ATG ODI batsman, but the reality is that he was nothing special as a batsman and not even amongst the top 5 Indian batsmen in ODI history.
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Dhoni is the greatest finisher in Indian history and their greatest captain, that isn't up for debate.
 
deltexas said:
Folks should not ignore the fact that Ind for sure underachieved the last 10 years. Yeah- no team can win all titles even if they have the best infrastructure and player pool. But yes for sure Ind should have won 3-4 titles the past 10 years.

Going forward though it's a course correction Ind is on track for. I dont see anyone other than the Big 3 winning any icc titles the next 10 years. But the next gen Ind players I think are more adaptive to pressure KO game scenarios. Also I think Aus has had one of its golden generation bowling quartet the past 10 years. Dont see that in their future bowlers - I could be wrong though

Pak though has been genuinely disappointed its supporters. Cricket is played by few nations - so want teams to be stronger for cricket's benefit. A stronger pak team is more exciting to beat than a mediocre timid one. That's why in odis- the 96 99 03 2011 wc wins were much better and exciting than the 2015 2019 2023 ones..
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2019 wins were exciting. Pakistan beating England in 2019 has to be one of Pakistan's best wc moments even if they never made it to semi's . Ofcourse Pakistan getting butchered by west Indies is one of their worst and they both happen in similar cups.

2015 and 2023 isn't exciting because no sane person actually thought we had a chance. People thought we had a chance in 2019 cause not only did we win 2017, we upset multiple strong teams in that cup.

2017-2019 genuinely carried the mantra of unpredictability as Pakistan could got smacked black and blue by a minnow on one day and upset the strongest tournament team on another (2017 against India and 2019 against england)

2015 was a horror show, even after sarfraz and wahab exploits, it would have been absolutely impossible to beat 2015 Australia which is an atg Australian side, 2015 Australia would wash 2011 India and every team In 2019 and 2023 as well lol, that's how lethal everyone was with Smith and Stark in 2015 being > Kohli and Bumrah (Granted both Smith and Stark nosedived in the later years)

2023 no one actually believed Pakistan would have won after the asia cup thrashing, once that happened it was clear Pakistan was done and dusted for that cup, a test line up of Abdullah, Imam, Babar, Rizwan, Saud, Chacha, Shadab and Nawaz was never going tonwork and once maseem was put for hasan, writing was on the wall.

That's why none of the wins were exciting, fans only switched on to watch fakhar bat since insong fakhar is always entertaining but he alone wouldn't have saves the squad
 
NishanKonar said:
Dhoni was massively overrated batsman. But yes he was very good white ball captain
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A guy who averages 50 at no 6/7 in those eras is not the sign of a MASSIVELY OVERRATED batsmen.

He averaged 50 throughout his career which included playing games in the older era. Nowadays 50 average has become a joke cough Imam ul Haq Cough.
 
First post here. Have been lurking in the background but couldn't resist...

Dhoni was, undoubtedly, a great ODI batsman. One could argue he didn't have eye-catching technique or that his off-side game wasn't the best, BUT, and it's a big BUT, he more than made up for it with his street-smart cricketing acumen.

For starters, he was the fittest player in the squad and could run singles and doubles for fun. Just jog back to the doubles and triples he took with Kohli in Mohali against Australia in 2016, when by all accounts, he had started to fade as a player. His running ability meant that he didn't have to always rely on big hits to keep the scoreboard ticking.

For most of his career, he was exceedingly adept at playing percentage cricket. As reflected in his own interviews where he would talk about taking risks when he saw 3/4th of a run! His cool, calm demeanor used to put the bowlers under pressure who inevitably gave him chances to exploit their weaknesses. He used to take the game deep and come out victorious, 100% of the times, until age got the better of him.

And, of course, he had brute power. His 'helicopter' shot was legendary - He has hit someone as skillful as Malinga for 6s on what would be deemed as perfect yorkers to ordinary mortals.

He ended his career with an extremely high average and a good SR, but that's not all -- he remained amongst the top 10 batsmen in ODIs from 2008 to 2015, according to ICC rankings. That's 8 straight years of great consistency, despite being one of those players who never played for individual records. He retired after playing 93 tests; never thought about completing 100 tests which is a dream for many!

Finally, he was, and still remains, India's greatest captain and the GOAT captain in white ball cricket. That's not even debatable!
 
I've seen great captains across many eras but Dhoni's stoicism stands out by leaps and bounds. He had pretty poor bowlers to work with, for most of his career, but you would never catch him off guard. There could have been a whirlpool of emotions flowing inside his mind and body but you could never guess anything looking at his face.

At times of crisis, players look for inspiration from their captain, and Dhoni was always steady as a rock. Cool, calm, unflappable and always gave off vibes that he was in control. That's 80% of leadership, right there.

Tactically speaking, he loved choking the opposition with spin. He is the one who backed Jadeja and Kohli after their place had come into question, following initial failures. By all accounts, he was the most accessible captain and a "mentor" for junior cricketers.

Also, Dhoni is the first superstar cricketer from India who happened to come from a nondescript state like Jharkhand. You want to know why his technique wasn't that good? He never got to play in Bombay or Delhi under the watchful eyes of great coaches, like Tendulkar or Kohli. He was a self-made cricketer and it is through his own grit and determination that he became a global superstar.

Dhoni proved, for the first time in Indian cricketing history, that one doesn't have to come from the big Metros to be a great cricketer. That alone sets him apart from all the other greats. He defied the greatest of odds and how!
 
Yuvraj Singh and Dhoni started playing cricket around the same time and there's no doubt that Yuvraj was much more talented than Dhoni.

But Yuvraj couldn't translate his God-given talent into a legendary career. In fact, he underachieved, given the amount of skill he possessed when he burst onto the scene. Underachieved by a big margin.

Dhoni in contrast had to prove himself as a swashbuckling keeper-batsman, which every team desired after Gilchrist's heroics for Australia and then had to lead a side which had many contenders for the top job.

He ended up securing a legacy not only as the greatest WK-batsman in India's history but also as the greatest Captain. And yet, there is no doubt that he wasn't as talented as Yuvraj Singh.

The difference was, he maximized his abilities. He was the fittest, he had power, he had the street-smarts and he was HUNGRY. Hungry to succeed, hungry to learn and improve.

In the end, all these qualities ensured that he came out on top of many cricketers who came from much better financial backgrounds, much better coaching centers who simply didn't have the drive to succeed. At least not at Dhoni's level.

Dhoni's legacy is special because it's all about human ability and will power triumphing over luck and fate. It's literally the stuff that dreams are made of!
 
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