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India [274/7] defeat South Africa [201] by 73 runs to take an unassailable 4-1 lead ODI series

Although I like Dhoni as a cricketer, as a captain and as a person, but I have to admit after seeing this shot that he is not young anymore.
 
troodon said:
300 is par here.

SA will relish batting in these conditions. If they can see out the new ball threat, they will be the favs to win this.

Indian bowlers have to be at their best.
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Really? The ball seems to be keeping low and people were saying Shamsi was turning it miles.
 
Bilal7 said:
Lol, my bad. I just realized that there is an actual player named Pandey and you were not just misspelling Pandya. :yk
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Pandey is actually better batsman than anyone in current Pakistani batting line up.
But Kholi never plays him.
 
Dhoni is not the same player he once was. However, I challenge any of you guys to name a better keeper-batsman in all of India. Kohli should be batting him at #4 or #5.
 
Kaptan said:
Pandey is actually better batsman than anyone in current Pakistani batting line up.
But Kholi never plays him.
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I would like to see Pandey score a fifty in a normal match against Pakistan, let alone a match-winning and soul-crushing century in a final of an ICC tournament.
 
Dhoni is simply making a mockery of himself by "demanding" to continue playing due to his selfishness. I still remember his quote upon being appointed the Captain in the shorter format (2007/8) where he stated that players over 35 don't qualify to play the format anyways. What a hypocrite. Epitomises selfishness.
 
Kaptan said:
Pandey is actually better batsman than anyone in current Pakistani batting line up.
But Kholi never plays him.
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Unlikely, since Babar is a better batsman than any Indian barring Kohli, Dhawan and Rohit.

I remember the same hype around Rahul, Ilyer, Chand, etc. All turned out to be pretty mediocre.
 
To win SA will have to score against the opening pacers, try to see off and not lose too many wickets against the spinners and then once again attack the pacers towards the end.
 
DeadBall said:
To win SA will have to score against the opening pacers, try to see off and not lose too many wickets against the spinners and then once again attack the pacers towards the end.
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So pretty much the chasing template.
 
Kaptan said:
Pandey is actually better batsman than anyone in current Pakistani batting line up.
But Kholi never plays him.
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Yes he averages 39 in ODIs which is less then Babar Azam who I guess recently became no 1 in T20s qnd is in top 5,6 in ODIs we well:babar

But surely if Pandey would have played for a year or two he would have been no 1 in all three formats.
 
Bilal7 said:
Dhoni is not the same player he once was. However, I challenge any of you guys to name a better keeper-batsman in all of India. Kohli should be batting him at #4 or #5.
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dhoni is a great keeper but in odi's and t-20's you don't need that good a keeper, we played dravid in 2003 WC as keeper without suffering much, i am pretty sure that there at least half a dozen better batsman than dhoni in pak setup let alone india's. Fact is the selfish jerk won't quit t-20's because he knows if he does and gets replaced by pant or samson the pressure to drop his sorry *** in odi's will grow and will have to retire or be kicked out just as he was in tests.
 
I seriously want Kholi and Sastri to publicly criticises our middle order especially Dhoni in post match press conference for this kind of show.
 
Worst death batting,54 for 4 in last 10 overs.
Last match was 59 for 3.
Problem is who can replace dhoni or pandya?(no good wicketkeeper and no seam allrounder for england conditions)

If this problem persists we will have no option but to think radical.
 
Bilal7 said:
Unlikely, since Babar is a better batsman than any Indian barring Kohli, Dhawan and Rohit.

I remember the same hype around Rahul, Ilyer, Chand, etc. All turned out to be pretty mediocre.
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Yeah, we saw that in Newzealand.Couldnt even put bat on ball in the ODI series.
 
Kaptan said:
Dhoni has completely lost it.
I am the biggest Dhoni fan on earth, and even I want him to retire and save his face from further humiliations.
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He is the best keeper . No question about it.

The way he is utilized and paraded in front of Indian fans is wrong. He needs to be sent at NO.4 and asked to slog. If he cannot, he should bat at No.8. No point in coming in at no.5 and wasting deliveries. I would prefer a proper hack who can slog and hope that the hack gets lucky.
 
austerlitz said:
Worst death batting,54 for 4 in last 10 overs.
Last match was 59 for 3.
Problem is who can replace dhoni or pandya?(no good wicketkeeper and no seam allrounder for england conditions)

If this problem persists we will have no option but to think radical.
Click to expand...

Dhoni can be replaced with someone young like Pant or samson and give the chosen one atleast 10 matches.

While for Pandya, India produced a fast bowling all rounder after almost three decades let alone having a replacement for him
 
jagatk said:
dhoni is a great keeper but in odi's and t-20's you don't need that good a keeper, we played dravid in 2003 WC as keeper without suffering much, i am pretty sure that there at least half a dozen better batsman than dhoni in pak setup let alone india's. Fact is the selfish jerk won't quit t-20's because he knows if he does and gets replaced by pant or samson the pressure to drop his sorry *** in odi's will grow and will have to retire or be kicked out just as he was in tests.
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Yes, but you still need someone to keep. Who is that someone going to be? Karthic and Patel are half the batsmen Dhoni is even today. You can try Rahul as the keeper but is he going to do any better than Dhoni down the order?

Pakistan has the same problem with Sarfaraz but there simply is no other keeper-batsman to replace him. Not to mention that there is always the risk of the makeshift keeper dropping the opposition's key player when you least desire it, ala the Akmals.
 
Dingolfy said:
Yeah, we saw that in Newzealand.Couldnt even put bat on ball in the ODI series.
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How many Indians could put bat on ball when you last went to NZ to get your bums kicked 4-0? Your golden boy Sharma is a hack overseas, let alone some Pandey who can't make the team over Rahane and Ilyer.
 
Dingolfy said:
Yeah, we saw that in Newzealand.Couldnt even put bat on ball in the ODI series.
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He is 22 and he has already scored a century in Aus. Give him some time and and watch. Remeber Kohli struggling against moving ball early in his career. Although he still struggles but has improved
 
Bilal7 said:
Yes, but you still need someone to keep. Who is that someone going to be? Karthic and Patel are half the batsmen Dhoni is even today. You can try Rahul as the keeper but is he going to do any better than Dhoni down the order?

Pakistan has the same problem with Sarfaraz but there simply is no other keeper-batsman to replace him. Not to mention that there is always the risk of the makeshift keeper dropping the opposition's key player when you least desire it, ala the Akmals.
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Give me samson ahead of dhoni all day long, if pant can sort out his technique a bit he will a good choice in 1-2 years time and both even at their current ability are much better batsman than dhoni. Patel and karthik are played just to make dhoni look good, there was no justification to pick karthik ahead of pant or samson other than not wanting to pressurize dhoni.
 
austerlitz said:
Worst death batting,54 for 4 in last 10 overs.
Last match was 59 for 3.
Problem is who can replace dhoni or pandya?(no good wicketkeeper and no seam allrounder for england conditions)

If this problem persists we will have no option but to think radical.
Click to expand...

In my opinion Vijay Shankar is as good as Hardik Pandya, if not better. Plus he is grounded. Half of Pandya's problem is his casual and bad (superstar) attitude.
 
troodon said:
He is the best keeper . No question about it.

The way he is utilized and paraded in front of Indian fans is wrong. He needs to be sent at NO.4 and asked to slog. If he cannot, he should bat at No.8. No point in coming in at no.5 and wasting deliveries. I would prefer a proper hack who can slog and hope that the hack gets lucky.
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Send him at #4 and ask him to rotate the strike and hit out before the last 10. He's still good enough to be a decent #4 which is more than India can say about any of their other #4 options. Plus, he is still a great keeper and has loads of experience that Kohli can tap into.

India should bring Raina back as the finisher who bats at #6.
 
India 60 short on a pancake with U-13 level square boundaries.
Only brilliant bowling can save India.Otherwise SA has 85% chances of winning within 42nd over here
 
Bilal7 said:
Yes, but you still need someone to keep. Who is that someone going to be? Karthic and Patel are half the batsmen Dhoni is even today. You can try Rahul as the keeper but is he going to do any better than Dhoni down the order?

Pakistan has the same problem with Sarfaraz but there simply is no other keeper-batsman to replace him. Not to mention that there is always the risk of the makeshift keeper dropping the opposition's key player when you least desire it, ala the Akmals.
Click to expand...

I have become even a bigger fan of Sarfaraz as a player after seeing him play some shots against faster bowlers in T20s vs NZ. He just showed a completely new dimension of his batting, before that T20 series I have never seen him hitting a fast bowler for down the ground. If he can carry on improving straight down the ground shots he can be very dangerous even in lower order.
 
Great bowling from Ngidi. For all the talk of quota selections, Saffers have unearthed quality pacers in Rabada and Ngidi. Bavuma is promising batsman in tests.
 
Alright, gotta go. I hope to see South Africa pull this one off but the most likely result is that the Indian spinners win India another match.

The Asia Cup is going to be a battle of the leggies.
 
leatherface58 said:
Great bowling from Ngidi. For all the talk of quota selections, Saffers have unearthed quality pacers in Rabada and Ngidi. Bavuma is promising batsman in tests.
Click to expand...

Phelukwayo is a pretty decent player too. At his best, he can offer you 7-8 economical overs and can be lethal with the bat during the last 10. Better than Pandya, imo.
 
austerlitz said:
Worst death batting,54 for 4 in last 10 overs.
Last match was 59 for 3.
Problem is who can replace dhoni or pandya?(no good wicketkeeper and no seam allrounder for england conditions)

If this problem persists we will have no option but to think radical.
Click to expand...

Lol at who can replace Pandya. What has he done apart from 2-3 innings? He is a useless bowler and it seems his batting is not good either. Everyone is asking for Dhoni's head but no one is saying anything about the Best Since Kapil Dev - Hardik Pandya.
 
DuckMaster said:
In my opinion Vijay Shankar is as good as Hardik Pandya, if not better. Plus he is grounded. Half of Pandya's problem is his casual and bad (superstar) attitude.
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Is Vijay Shankar any good with ball? I know he can ball but is he good enough?
 
Titan24 said:
He is 22 and he has already scored a century in Aus. Give him some time and and watch. Remeber Kohli struggling against moving ball early in his career. Although he still struggles but has improved
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Kohli averages 58 in NZ, 77 in SA and 33 in Eng. While your boy wonder doesn't average above 35 anywhere other than australia and WI and that WI no is propped up by a not out 100+.
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Lol at who can replace Pandya. What has he done apart from 2-3 innings? He is a useless bowler and it seems his batting is not good either. Everyone is asking for Dhoni's head but no one is saying anything about the Best Since Kapil Dev - Hardik Pandya.
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Obviously if Kohli wants to play two specialist spinners he would be needing a third pacer in the form of an all rounder.
 
Titan24 said:
Is Vijay Shankar any good with ball? I know he can ball but is he good enough?
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Shankar is basically a decent batsman who can bowl few overs of economic medium pace. Pandya hasn't done any wonders with the ball. Not with the bat either when the situation actually demanded him to.
 
jagatk said:
Kohli averages 58 in NZ, 77 in SA and 33 in Eng. While your boy wonder doesn't average above 35 anywhere other than australia and WI and that WI no is propped up by a not out 100+.
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Last time I checked Kohli is 28 heading towards 29 and has played more then 200 ODIs, this is not even a comparison. I was talking about young Kohli who had big technical issues but improved. I neve compared Babar with current Kohli
 
India needs to give Pant/Samson a chance in T20's.

I don't understand why MSD is still playing T20 format. He struggles there too with the bat. Ideal chance to try out youngsters. If any of them click, they can be transitioned to ODI and then to Test format.

Playing MSD, Jadhav, Karthik is pointless in T20's. We wasted a great opportunity to try out Pant/Samson/Hooda/Krunal/Ishan Kishan/Rana etc against Srilanka in that pointless series.
 
jagatk said:
Kohli averages 58 in NZ, 77 in SA and 33 in Eng. While your boy wonder doesn't average above 35 anywhere other than australia and WI and that WI no is propped up by a not out 100+.
Click to expand...
Babar hasn't even played in SA yet. Still early days. He can only score runs against opposition he plays. Good average in Australia against very good bowlers. He is a class batsman. Also interesting how ICC rankings are genuine when talking about India, but not a good indicator when talking about Pakistan. Indian fans, on this forum specially, are a hoot.
 
DuckMaster said:
Shankar is basically a decent batsman who can bowl few overs of economic medium pace. Pandya hasn't done any wonders with the ball. Not with the bat either when the situation actually demanded him to.
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Agreed, lets see if Shankar can create any impact in this IPL. Competition to Pandya would definitely make him work harder
 
Bilal7 said:
Phelukwayo is a pretty decent player too. At his best, he can offer you 7-8 economical overs and can be lethal with the bat during the last 10. Better than Pandya, imo.
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Pandya is a hack. His comparison with Stokes were funny. All rounders contribute either with bat or ball. ATM he is not doing anything. Irfan Pathan was a better all rounder than him.
 
troodon said:
India needs to give Pant/Samson a chance in T20's.

I don't understand why MSD is still playing T20 format. He struggles there too with the bat. Ideal chance to try out youngsters. If any of them click, they can be transitioned to ODI and then to Test format.

Playing MSD, Jadhav, Karthik is pointless in T20's. We wasted a great opportunity to try out Pant/Samson/Hooda/Krunal/Ishan Kishan/Rana etc against Srilanka in that pointless series.
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Definitely they need to test youngsters in T20s, good to see Hooda in the squad. He has got very impressive temperament as a cricketer.
 
Another bumbling innings by MS. I've been wanting India to drop Dhoni since the 2015 WC semifinal loss , it is horrifying to know that he is still the first choice keeper for the 2019 edition !
 
Bhaag Viru Bhaag said:
Pandya is a hack. His comparison with Stokes were funny. All rounders contribute either with bat or ball. ATM he is not doing anything. Irfan Pathan was a better all rounder than him.
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Problem with Pathan was that initially he was a very good bowler who was able to bat a bit as well. Then he became a decent batsman but very ordinary bowler with nothing to offer then few cutters. When of the biggest downfalls of a great talent.
 
At this point, India has to hope that they get lucky with Shubman Gill. Hope he gets into the squad by the end of the year and solidify the No.4 spot.

Tired of seeing the Iyer/pandey/Jadhav/Karthik/Rahane circus.

India needs a solid No.4 bat and a big sloggers at No.5/6.

If India gets lucky, then below should be the order for 2019 WC.

Dhawan
Rohit
Kohli
Gill
Raina
Pandya
BK/Shami
MSD
Kuldeep
Chahal
Bumrah

Batting is still weak after Top 5, but India can hope some runs from Top 5 not instead of the Top 3.
 
Thomaskutty said:
Another bumbling innings by MS. I've been wanting India to drop Dhoni since the 2015 WC semifinal loss , it is horrifying to know that he is still the first choice keeper for the 2019 edition !
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He comes with bonus which is some strategic advice to Kohli in key match situations
 
troodon said:
At this point, India has to hope that they get lucky with Shubman Gill. Hope he gets into the squad by the end of the year and solidify the No.4 spot.

Tired of seeing the Iyer/pandey/Jadhav/Karthik/Rahane circus.

India needs a solid No.4 bat and a big sloggers at No.5/6.

If India gets lucky, then below should be the order for 2019 WC.

Dhawan
Rohit
Kohli
Gill
Raina
Pandya
BK/Shami
MSD
Kuldeep
Chahal
Bumrah

Batting is still weak after Top 5, but India can hope some runs from Top 5 not instead of the Top 3.
Click to expand...

Iyer is hard done as opening slots are not available anytime soon. He prefers opening I guess, when the ball is new or one down where he scored some runs
 
MS should have rested from this series and instead, a youngster should have been tried so India has backup keeper for WC.
 
Titan24 said:
He comes with bonus which is some strategic advice to Kohli in key match situations
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So they say but that's probably exaggerated.
From a batting perspective , it's clear that he finds it hard to accelerate in the final overs. The least they could do was give him the no.4 spot and play an anchor-ish role.
 
Bumrah seems to have such a short mincing run up, almost like a spinner, for someone who regularly bowls over 140...
 
Looking at slow motion footage it seems Bumrah has the same kind of retro flexion in his elbow that Akthar had, bends backwards through the joint a bit...
 
leatherface58 said:
MS should have rested from this series and instead, a youngster should have been tried so India has backup keeper for WC.
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Indian superstars wont retire. They need to be kicked out.

I remember how MSD kicked out seniors like Gambhir, Sehwag, Dravid etc... saying that they are either not performing or too old and slow.

May be he should follow his own advice and kick himself out. He is ruining his legacy by dragging his career for too long.

I guess Brand Dhoni is too hard to let go.
 
Amla and ABD wickets are key. If India can get them cheaply, they will be the favs.

If any of Amla, ABD clicks, this score will be chased down very fast.
 
Oligochaetes said:
No movement in the pitch. Should be relatively easy chase
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kuldeep and chahal will have their say about that. it's not pace that's undone saf on this tour. speaking of which, they should look to score a bit up front probably, lest they get bogged down against spin later...
 
troodon said:
Amla and ABD wickets are key. If India can get them cheaply, they will be the favs.

If any of Amla, ABD clicks, this score will be chased down very fast.
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two fragile batting orders...im not convinced they learnt to play yadav and chahal in the last game...still think india will take this series
 
Iyer dropped catch and he isn't even looking disappointed by himself.
 
IYEr has dropped 2 catches in 2 games. Doesn't deserve to play international cricket. :D
 
Makram gone. If it weren't for Bhuvi releasing the pressure SA would have been in a worse position.
 
Duminy coming in at a good time, has been playing the spinners well.
 
Gradually, I'll stop watching cricket- just follow the scorecard for stats and result.

Categorically, they are killing the art of the game in every aspect - this kid Markram is basically butchering everything by hitting through the line because of the wicket and ball used, and he is hitting everything through onside in air which suggests a very stiff wrist, and extended use of bottom hand power. On same wicket, just if they use hand stitched ball, this kid is a sitting duck ... and more or less every U25 batsmen these days are same.
 
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