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India coach Anil Kumble tells BCCI that Virat Kohli and Co want to play in CT2017 [Update #319]

forum world? let's be real here...Why is BCCI willing to give money it makes to the sport's controlling body or even other boards? BCCI is under no obligation to pay others and should pull the plug. The actual truth is BCCI depends on other cricketing nations to keep this cash cow alive...these boycotting threats from you fans is a joke...BCCI won't be able to sustain itself if it's not part of the cricketing world and IPL revenues will also dwindle. All these threats are pretty hollow because India needs the rest as much as they need India.

My point still stands. What you say may be right, but it is in the forum world. In the real world the powers that be are only caving to the BCCI. The 'empty' threats seem to work each and every time.

The ICC will never call BCCI's bluff. Because of their sheer greed for $$$. That is the real world that I am talking about.
 
forum world? let's be real here...Why is BCCI willing to give money it makes to the sport's controlling body or even other boards? BCCI is under no obligation to pay others and should pull the plug. The actual truth is BCCI depends on other cricketing nations to keep this cash cow alive...these boycotting threats from you fans is a joke...BCCI won't be able to sustain itself if it's not part of the cricketing world and IPL revenues will also dwindle. All these threats are pretty hollow because India needs the rest as much as they need India.

Why is India willing to give money?India doesnt bring 100% of the money so it cant keep everything.Indian market generates 80% of the revenues.Without India playing in ICC events that market will go for a toss.Thats why they want India.

Its laughable to suggest that Pakistan or Sri Lanka or WI bring the same money as India.

Even UK and Australia dont.

India can play cricket without playing in ICC events.Unless you are suggesting that ICC will ban India or countries will put bans on touring India.

When million dollar contracts will be put forward players from WI/SL/NZ/SA will flock to IPL. A few more million dollars and even aussies and english will come.
 
My point still stands. What you say may be right, but it is in the forum world. In the real world the powers that be are only caving to the BCCI. The 'empty' threats seem to work each and every time.

The ICC will never call BCCI's bluff. Because of their sheer greed for $$$. That is the real world that I am talking about.

If threats were empty ICC wouldnot be taking them seriously.

India can simply refuse to be part of ICC events and just play its bilateral series.Unless you are suggesting that ICC will ban India or countries will put bans on touring India.The ICC revenues will drop significantly in absence of interest from its biggest market.Boards will see their ICC income drop significantly and many will be willing to host India and make millions rather than participate in a ICC event.

In 2000s the ICC tried to be funny and threatened India with a ban.Indian courts ordered banning any forex from flowing to ICC from India and warned of banning ICC events broadcast in India. So no threats are not empty.There are laws that can be invoked in India to ban ICC.
 
This greed to steal money from India is so strong that it is best India skips this tournament. There is no clause that they have to play. They can invite next nation in line. India can continue with Bilaterals.

I have no desire to watch anything in which a poor person from India is subsidizing everyone else in the world.

It is time the snakes in ICC quit blackmailing BCCI.
 
AFAIK BCCI is generating 80% of the total revenue which is around $ 2.5 - 3 billion, all BCCI asking is 22.9% of the share i.e $ 586 million. Please correct me if i am wrong.
 
Don't let them play in the tournament.

If it comes down to that , ICC wouldn't need to stop India , India would itself shouldn't play. CT is nothing compared to the financial implications of the arrangements. Why should BCCI take a paycut ? That's a bigger agenda than CT - couldn't care less about CT
 
If it comes down to that , ICC wouldn't need to stop India , India would itself shouldn't play. CT is nothing compared to the financial implications of the arrangements. Why should BCCI take a paycut ? That's a bigger agenda than CT - couldn't care less about CT

Well, the BCCI definitely cares and so does the rest of India otherwise they wouldn't be playing Pakistan in the tournament. The new financial model is fair and the BCCI should take it, lest they start getting boycotted by the rest of the cricketing world.
 
Well, the BCCI definitely cares and so does the rest of India otherwise they wouldn't be playing Pakistan in the tournament. The new financial model is fair and the BCCI should take it, lest they start getting boycotted by the rest of the cricketing world.

India is under no obligation to take neither will it take it. Why do you want to steal India's money? How do you find it fair? Is theft OK?
 
Those who think rest of the world boycott's India are haters to begin with. No one will boycott India. No one. The empire will realize its mistake one way or other.

One thing I have learned from this is that India has no friends.
 
Damn squib
From what HT has learnt, the reason for BCCI delaying team announcement is due to logistics problems caused by the IPL, and their request will be accommodated by the ICC.
 
Well, the BCCI definitely cares and so does the rest of India otherwise they wouldn't be playing Pakistan in the tournament. The new financial model is fair and the BCCI should take it, lest they start getting boycotted by the rest of the cricketing world.

Well India would play any game scheduled in our group like any tournament. However if there has to be a choice on whether to play CT or agree to the financial model , I'm sure most of the Indians would go for the fairness in the financial model rather than CT. Cricket is important but fighting for the BCCI is more important. and the new model certainly isn't fair. If BCCI is generating close to 80 % of the revenue and asking around 25 % share that's more than fair. In no way ICC's effort to put BCCI back in to 90's should be allowed.
 
I hope Mir Jaffar Shahsankar is shown his correct place. He should not be allowed to participate in any cricket related activity by stripping him of his official position. He can take refuge in London as Mallaya is doing.
 
The deadline was all the others except BCII, they can do whatever they want, khulli chutti for them.
 
The deadline was all the others except BCII, they can do whatever they want, khulli chutti for them.

So you approve of the fact that it is OK for ICC to steal Inidan money. We are protesting for equitable distribution. You are promoting theft. Whose position is correct.

I hope they make the Pakistan fans happy and kick India out of this tournament. This will make decision easy for BCCI.
 
Why is India willing to give money?India doesnt bring 100% of the money so it cant keep everything.Indian market generates 80% of the revenues.Without India playing in ICC events that market will go for a toss.Thats why they want India.

Its laughable to suggest that Pakistan or Sri Lanka or WI bring the same money as India.

Even UK and Australia dont.

India can play cricket without playing in ICC events.Unless you are suggesting that ICC will ban India or countries will put bans on touring India.

When million dollar contracts will be put forward players from WI/SL/NZ/SA will flock to IPL. A few more million dollars and even aussies and english will come.

In other words India is that guy who can get girls by throwing money at them. And hot girls with more money. Not much to brag about, lol.
 
AFAIK BCCI is generating 80% of the total revenue which is around $ 2.5 - 3 billion, all BCCI asking is 22.9% of the share i.e $ 586 million. Please correct me if i am wrong.
Wrong.

The BCCI contributes precisely ZERO.

Private Indian TV networks pay the money.

Britain's broadcasters BBC and ITV pay huge sums to show FIFA and UEFA football tournaments. But the English Football Association (population 58 million) gets less FIFA money than the Uruguay Football Federation (population 3 million, whose TV network Tenfield pays less than 0.1% of what BBC/ITVpay.

It's a protection racket by the BCCI. They pretend that they deliver the money when actually private TV networks do.

The BCCI should get no more ICC money than anyone else.
 
Wrong.

The BCCI contributes precisely ZERO.

Private Indian TV networks pay the money.

Britain's broadcasters BBC and ITV pay huge sums to show FIFA and UEFA football tournaments. But the English Football Association (population 58 million) gets less FIFA money than the Uruguay Football Federation (population 3 million, whose TV network Tenfield pays less than 0.1% of what BBC/ITVpay.

It's a protection racket by the BCCI. They pretend that they deliver the money when actually private TV networks do.

The BCCI should get no more ICC money than anyone else.

Protection racket? ICC is welcome to tap into the private Indian TV money by bypassing indian cricketing authorities if they can.

if not they should quit whining and get on with it.
 
Lol, Ok not this time but when is BCCI at fault? You guys (indian keyboard Army ) can't call a spade a spade so no credibility at all.

why do we need to call spade a spade? our interest only about Indian cricket not about Pakistan cricket or Pakistan keyboard warriors.

BTW happy to see you on our side on this case :afridi
 
AFAIK BCCI is generating 80% of the total revenue which is around $ 2.5 - 3 billion, all BCCI asking is 22.9% of the share i.e $ 586 million. Please correct me if i am wrong.

Protection racket? ICC is welcome to tap into the private Indian TV money by bypassing indian cricketing authorities if they can.

if not they should quit whining and get on with it.

Wrong.

The BCCI contributes precisely ZERO.

Private Indian TV networks pay the money.

Britain's broadcasters BBC and ITV pay huge sums to show FIFA and UEFA football tournaments. But the English Football Association (population 58 million) gets less FIFA money than the Uruguay Football Federation (population 3 million, whose TV network Tenfield pays less than 0.1% of what BBC/ITVpay.

It's a protection racket by the BCCI. They pretend that they deliver the money when actually private TV networks do.

The BCCI should get no more ICC money than anyone else.
The problem is that the ICC encourages bilateral rather than centralised scheduling because the BCCI has had too much power.

If the Woolf Report had been implemented, bilateral scheduling would not exist and ICC committee members would be required not to represent national interests.

The ICC would tell India where and when it was playing, and the TV revenue would go to the ICC.

And if the BCCI withdrew India from ICC scheduled events or tours, no foreign player would be able to get a No Objection Certificate to play IPL.

So the IPL would just be a mediocre domestic tournament. Any foreign player would end up with a worldwide ban except for rebel IPL cricket.

Don't say it couldn't happen. FIFA did it to Colombia in the 1950's, and their domestic league went from having the world's best players to being a basket case.
 
The problem is that the ICC encourages bilateral rather than centralised scheduling because the BCCI has had too much power.

If the Woolf Report had been implemented, bilateral scheduling would not exist and ICC committee members would be required not to represent national interests.

The ICC would tell India where and when it was playing, and the TV revenue would go to the ICC.

And if the BCCI withdrew India from ICC scheduled events or tours, no foreign player would be able to get a No Objection Certificate to play IPL.

So the IPL would just be a mediocre domestic tournament. Any foreign player would end up with a worldwide ban except for rebel IPL cricket.

Don't say it couldn't happen. FIFA did it to Colombia in the 1950's, and their domestic league went from having the world's best players to being a basket case.

Word Salad. ICC doesn't encourage bilaterals. Bilaterals is how ICC came about.

1) FIFA and a banana republic like columbia? you are comparing that to ICC and India. Talk about clutching at straws. We have gone thro' this whole ICC should punish BCCI nonsense b4. not happening as long as bulk of cricketing revenue is from BCCI/Indian market.

2) Read up on game theory. Rest of ICC is well aware of CA and ECB's behavior in long history of veto nonsense and short history of Big 3 in 2014. no one can be stupid enough to put there eggs on those 2. It will easy for BCCI to pick of 3-4 boards and put the rest on a diet. they will come back begging.

If you doubt me check with CSA on what happened when BCCI simply shortened the tour


3) Woolf report, love the idea of a Brit dictating how indian money should be commandeered and spent. Longing for colonial times?

Did you read the Woolf report . It clearly states that ICC needs to be not dependent on revenue from one country

make that happen first, then we can talk.
 
Easy fix is for the ICC to sell broadcast and sponsorship rights a couple years before the tourney.

Sure. But wouldn't the broadcasters want some guarantees? Because they would want to recoup their cost and make money as well by sell advertisement. This would require them to set forth certain conditions to the ICC in order to acquire rights.
 
The problem is that the ICC encourages bilateral rather than centralised scheduling because the BCCI has had too much power.

If the Woolf Report had been implemented, bilateral scheduling would not exist and ICC committee members would be required not to represent national interests.

The ICC would tell India where and when it was playing, and the TV revenue would go to the ICC.

And if the BCCI withdrew India from ICC scheduled events or tours, no foreign player would be able to get a No Objection Certificate to play IPL.

So the IPL would just be a mediocre domestic tournament. Any foreign player would end up with a worldwide ban except for rebel IPL cricket.

Don't say it couldn't happen. FIFA did it to Colombia in the 1950's, and their domestic league went from having the world's best players to being a basket case.

Isolation of BCCI will never happen. Because of ICC's (and the rest of the boards) greed. It would have happened already if ICC wanted to or had the will.

You are assuming that if/when the BCCI is kicked out that they will go away quietly. That would be a wrong assumption, given the past history. Even if it does, BCCI would likely take a few other boards with them. So at best there will be a split in world cricket. Not an isolation of BCCI.
 
Word Salad. ICC doesn't encourage bilaterals. Bilaterals is how ICC came about.

1) FIFA and a banana republic like columbia? you are comparing that to ICC and India. Talk about clutching at straws. We have gone thro' this whole ICC should punish BCCI nonsense b4. not happening as long as bulk of cricketing revenue is from BCCI/Indian market.

2) Read up on game theory. Rest of ICC is well aware of CA and ECB's behavior in long history of veto nonsense and short history of Big 3 in 2014. no one can be stupid enough to put there eggs on those 2. It will easy for BCCI to pick of 3-4 boards and put the rest on a diet. they will come back begging.

If you doubt me check with CSA on what happened when BCCI simply shortened the tour


3) Woolf report, love the idea of a Brit dictating how indian money should be commandeered and spent. Longing for colonial times?

Did you read the Woolf report . It clearly states that ICC needs to be not dependent on revenue from one country

make that happen first, then we can talk.
There's nothing for us to talk about.

Australia's leading AFL and NRL players earn around $400,000 per year.

I'd be perfectly happy for India to depart international cricket and take veteran foreign players with them, then let us get on with it with players on $500,000 per year instead of double that.

Frankly, I wouldn't even notice if India exited the ICC and international cricket. Knock yourselves out. Be my guest. :)
 
There's nothing for us to talk about.

Australia's leading AFL and NRL players earn around $400,000 per year.

I'd be perfectly happy for India to depart international cricket and take veteran foreign players with them, then let us get on with it with players on $500,000 per year instead of double that.

Frankly, I wouldn't even notice if India exited the ICC and international cricket. Knock yourselves out. Be my guest. :)

Easy for you to say. But would the players be satisfied with a 50% pay cut? I am sure they want the millions of $$. Because that is the case even now when they are making a million $. They want more, which is why you see the Aus. players from the captain on down in the IPL every year for a decade. Because they want to maximize their earning potential.

That is why I say the forum world is very different from real world/reality.
 
Wrong.

The BCCI contributes precisely ZERO.

Private Indian TV networks pay the money.

Britain's broadcasters BBC and ITV pay huge sums to show FIFA and UEFA football tournaments. But the English Football Association (population 58 million) gets less FIFA money than the Uruguay Football Federation (population 3 million, whose TV network Tenfield pays less than 0.1% of what BBC/ITVpay.

It's a protection racket by the BCCI. They pretend that they deliver the money when actually private TV networks do.

The BCCI should get no more ICC money than anyone else.

The private TV companies won't provide money for these revenues if the Indian side does not play.

The interest in any given tournament is enormously a function of whether Indian players are playing.
 
Isolation of BCCI will never happen. Because of ICC's (and the rest of the boards) greed. It would have happened already if ICC wanted to or had the will.

You are assuming that if/when the BCCI is kicked out that they will go away quietly.

Manohar is a fool. BCCI will not be kicked out because cricket boards of the Aus, Eng and NZ are not idiots. They realize the reasonableness of BCCI's demands and certainly don't want to lose more than half their funding whatever posters in this forum may claim.

The issues relevant to BCCI's demands are:

1) Which country generates how much of the revenues (largely advertising and sponsorships)?

2) What is the per capita return being given to each country? Does Manohar's proposal which gives an Irish about 60X the per capita of an Indian make sense?

3) It takes two to tango, and also two countries to play the game. So per capita a smaller country may get more (within reasonable limits).

Taking the above into account a reasonable compromise will be reached and Manohar will depart the fool.
 
The problem is that the ICC encourages bilateral rather than centralised scheduling because the BCCI has had too much power.

If the Woolf Report had been implemented, bilateral scheduling would not exist and ICC committee members would be required not to represent national interests.

The ICC would tell India where and when it was playing, and the TV revenue would go to the ICC.

And if the BCCI withdrew India from ICC scheduled events or tours, no foreign player would be able to get a No Objection Certificate to play IPL.

So the IPL would just be a mediocre domestic tournament. Any foreign player would end up with a worldwide ban except for rebel IPL cricket.

Don't say it couldn't happen. FIFA did it to Colombia in the 1950's, and their domestic league went from having the world's best players to being a basket case.

LOL.

If India broke away, we would simply not require an NOC to play our IPL. ICC could go fly a kite. We will let players play whether or not their boards want it, and turn IPL into an eight month league. We'd have all the national boards on their knees begging within an year.

The only problem is BCCI is playing nice. Even the slightest attempts to be nasty and impose on India would backfire.

And the other problem for you is Rebel IPL cricket would be a lot bigger than everything else put together because of the size of our market. India really is bigger in audiences and interest than everyone else put together, even assuming that level of coordination could exist.
 
There's nothing for us to talk about.

Australia's leading AFL and NRL players earn around $400,000 per year.

I'd be perfectly happy for India to depart international cricket and take veteran foreign players with them, then let us get on with it with players on $500,000 per year instead of double that.

Frankly, I wouldn't even notice if India exited the ICC and international cricket. Knock yourselves out. Be my guest. :)

We wouldn't take the veterans. We would take every single good player for whom the difference of $5 M and $1M per year was worth turning their back on their country (and that's more people than you imagine).

A 6 or 8 month IPL and the revenues would be so staggering we could have a 16 team league and multiply salary caps many times over. Money talks.
 
india pulling out of a tournament kills the money, thats why.

It doesn't kill the money, it's a myth that has been debunked plenty of times. Yes there will be a loss to the participating nations and sponsors on the short term BUT if India keep pulling out of all future tournaments, they will ultimately lose more revenue than they will make and that is not something any board can afford.

Cricket and its finances are bigger than India. Much bigger. The sport is played across the globe, viewership is across the globe and in actual fact, players make more money in Eng and Aus and the ECB has a bigger tv deal than India. Plus, companies that sponsor specific Indian players and the team as a whole will pull out if those sponsors are not exposed to a world wide audience via the CT or the WC.

The ICC will bend because the ICC is not a governing body. It is entirely different to say FIFA in football. There was a great article in the Guardian about the lack of any understanding of what the ICC does within the ICC itself. Look it up. It is a joke organisation.

To summarise, the BCCI can not survive financially with a domestic only model. Plain and simple. You don't have to be an economic wiz to figure that out.
 
It doesn't kill the money, it's a myth that has been debunked plenty of times. Yes there will be a loss to the participating nations and sponsors on the short term BUT if India keep pulling out of all future tournaments, they will ultimately lose more revenue than they will make and that is not something any board can afford.

Cricket and its finances are bigger than India. Much bigger. The sport is played across the globe, viewership is across the globe and in actual fact, players make more money in Eng and Aus and the ECB has a bigger tv deal than India. Plus, companies that sponsor specific Indian players and the team as a whole will pull out if those sponsors are not exposed to a world wide audience via the CT or the WC.

The ICC will bend because the ICC is not a governing body. It is entirely different to say FIFA in football. There was a great article in the Guardian about the lack of any understanding of what the ICC does within the ICC itself. Look it up. It is a joke organisation.

To summarise, the BCCI can not survive financially with a domestic only model. Plain and simple. You don't have to be an economic wiz to figure that out.

Actually we can. The numbers from the IPL are so stark and obvious. The gigantic crowds as well all the time. India absolutely can survive domestic only, but the current financial models for all other countries collapse if India takes it's bat and goes away.

Why not provide numbers to back your claim that world cricket minus India is larger than India?
 
Easy fix is for the ICC to sell broadcast and sponsorship rights a couple years before the tourney.

They sell it many years before the tourney.The rights from 2015 to 2023 are already sold.But when they pay the money they expect ICC to deliver their part of the bargain and India playing is one of them.
 
Wrong.

The BCCI contributes precisely ZERO.

Private Indian TV networks pay the money.

Britain's broadcasters BBC and ITV pay huge sums to show FIFA and UEFA football tournaments. But the English Football Association (population 58 million) gets less FIFA money than the Uruguay Football Federation (population 3 million, whose TV network Tenfield pays less than 0.1% of what BBC/ITVpay.

It's a protection racket by the BCCI. They pretend that they deliver the money when actually private TV networks do.

The BCCI should get no more ICC money than anyone else.

BCCI owns the team that plays the games which are watched by the people whom the private channels telecast! BCCI develops, administers and monitors the game in India. BCCI is a body governed by ex-players, politicians (who are required to run any organization), businessmen (who need to invest money)... BCCI is not any random thing came from space! Hence players, fans & media will be obedient to it!

Private Channels can send their alternate team (no restriction of whether they are from India) representing the Nation (India) to the ICC event if they wish! Let's see who will watch it and whether private channels dare (actually interested) to do so! (India will organize mini IPL during the same time and let's hope other teams don't boycott the mega ICC event minus BCCI team + proud Private Indian team and rather send their players back to IPL!)

Simple - India is the America of Cricket which can't be changed anytime near future!
 
Wrong.

The BCCI contributes precisely ZERO.

Private Indian TV networks pay the money.

Britain's broadcasters BBC and ITV pay huge sums to show FIFA and UEFA football tournaments. But the English Football Association (population 58 million) gets less FIFA money than the Uruguay Football Federation (population 3 million, whose TV network Tenfield pays less than 0.1% of what BBC/ITVpay.

It's a protection racket by the BCCI. They pretend that they deliver the money when actually private TV networks do.

The BCCI should get no more ICC money than anyone else.

WRONG!!!!!!

Indian Tv broadcasters pay that money because Indians pay to watch their team play.Why will they pay to watch a tournament which doesnt have the Indian team,infact that has been boycotted by the Indian team because the organisers tried to swindle them out of their money.

ICC is free to organise the tournament without India and see how it goes.As BCCI hasnot submitted its team by deadline date,ICC needs no excuse to throw them out.Just do it.
 
They don't have any idea of how how the system and 'fair' market/share works.
 
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Word Salad. ICC doesn't encourage bilaterals. Bilaterals is how ICC came about.

1) FIFA and a banana republic like columbia? you are comparing that to ICC and India. Talk about clutching at straws. We have gone thro' this whole ICC should punish BCCI nonsense b4. not happening as long as bulk of cricketing revenue is from BCCI/Indian market.

2) Read up on game theory. Rest of ICC is well aware of CA and ECB's behavior in long history of veto nonsense and short history of Big 3 in 2014. no one can be stupid enough to put there eggs on those 2. It will easy for BCCI to pick of 3-4 boards and put the rest on a diet. they will come back begging.

If you doubt me check with CSA on what happened when BCCI simply shortened the tour


3) Woolf report, love the idea of a Brit dictating how indian money should be commandeered and spent. Longing for colonial times?

Did you read the Woolf report . It clearly states that ICC needs to be not dependent on revenue from one country

make that happen first, then we can talk.

Ban on playing in India.LOL.The guy knows nothing. ICC would be banned in India and no ICC tournament will be telecasted here and no sponsor money will flow from India.The Delhi high court passed a similar order in 2000s and ICC was brought to its knees.

The colonial mindset of ECB has not changed and they want to control ICC. Just read about the new committee they want to form which will be "Independent" of ICC and that committtee will recommend who will be a test playing member and who will not be one.ICC will not have control over it.

Dont take someone who once claimed that "Sachin Tendulkar's agent hawked him to english counties in the mid 90s so that SRT could earn some much needed money,but counties refused as SRT was not good enough" to seriously.
 
There's nothing for us to talk about.

Australia's leading AFL and NRL players earn around $400,000 per year.

I'd be perfectly happy for India to depart international cricket and take veteran foreign players with them, then let us get on with it with players on $500,000 per year instead of double that.

Frankly, I wouldn't even notice if India exited the ICC and international cricket. Knock yourselves out. Be my guest. :)

Thing is you dont run cricket and so what you notice or what makes you happy wont run in cricket. :)
 
They don't have any idea of how how the system and 'fair' market/share works.

Hate to correct you, but the % of revenue received by India is less than the amount that is contributed. As per my understanding of fair market share, the two ought to be as close as possible.
 
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Actually we can. The numbers from the IPL are so stark and obvious. The gigantic crowds as well all the time. India absolutely can survive domestic only, but the current financial models for all other countries collapse if India takes it's bat and goes away.

Why not provide numbers to back your claim that world cricket minus India is larger than India?

If India departed from the international cricket scene and started its own league (or simply continued the IPL), soon the league would have the world's best players.

The situation is no different from the NBA which has the world's best basketball players. Talent flows to the league with money, that is how the real world works.
 
Hate to correct you, but the % of revenue received by India is less than the amount that is contributed. As per my understanding of fair market share, the two ought to be as close as possible.

It's not a stock market. Sporting bodies and even the UN doesn't work like that.

No country bullies FIFA either.
 
They don't have any idea of how how the system and 'fair' market/share works.


This is what happens when one person in the group is rich, 2-3 are modestly well to do and rest cant even earn their bread.
 
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It's not a stock market. Sporting bodies and even the UN doesn't work like that.

No country bullies FIFA either.

No country in FIFA contributes more than 50% of revenues,let alone close to 80% that Indian market does.
 
It's not a stock market. Sporting bodies and even the UN doesn't work like that.

Commercial sports leagues like the NBA, NFL, European football etc. are not like the UN. The UN is really a pretty useless organization.

No country bullies FIFA either.

No country generates 50%+ of FIFA's revenues like India does for ICC.
 
Commercial sports leagues like the NBA, NFL, European football etc. are not like the UN. The UN is really a pretty useless organization.



No country generates 50%+ of FIFA's revenues like India does for ICC.

No country is paid proportional to how much they earn in FIFA. Again you're not getting the point like someone who gets rich overnight. the body is there to promote the sport and welfare of those struggling.
 
Right now BCCI is asking for $570 M out of projected revenues of $2,700 M. That is roughly 22%.

If India generates 70% of that revenue, it means it is donating 48%. That is not a sustainable situation.

I predict that in the future (next two decades), either ICC will give India 50%+ of revenues, or international cricket will be replaced by an Indian league (possibly the IPL) with India keeping 100% of the revenues it generates.

Manohar's idiocy is hastening the process of change that will result in an economically sensible outcome.
 
We wouldn't take the veterans. We would take every single good player for whom the difference of $5 M and $1M per year was worth turning their back on their country (and that's more people than you imagine).

A 6 or 8 month IPL and the revenues would be so staggering we could have a 16 team league and multiply salary caps many times over. Money talks.

This thread has to a significant extent turned into a post-colonial power play. But of course in reality, Shashank Manohar was kept on at the ICC to ensure a compromise, and the negotiation of that is what is occuring behind the scenes.

As this forum goes, I like to think that you and I are good friends. We argue, but for pleasure, and I respect your views and I enjoy what I learn from you.

But I would like to go into some detail to explain why India's financial power is less than it imagines. (Which is good, because it was bad enough when England had too much power in cricket. We don't need another bully in the club).

Consider Australian sport and Australian acting.

It's true that the biggest Aussie actors can make a fortune in Hollywood. Nicole Kidman and Russell Crowe and Cate Blanchett earn fortunes.

But young Aussie actors don't base their career plans on that. If you look at Australian TV, Australian theatre and Australian movies, there is a clear economic landscape which owes almost nothing to Hollywood's going rates. If you are a full-time actor in Channel Ten's "Neighbours" - so beloved in England - you earn between $80,000 and $200,000 per year. In Aussie dollars.

The economy works exactly the same in sport.

If you live in Perth, Adelaide or Melbourne as a boy you play Aussie Rules (AFL) in winter and cricket in summer. If you live in Sydney or Brisbane you play Rugby League in winter (NRL) and cricket in summer, unless you go to a private Sydney or Brisbane school in which case you play Rugby Union in winter and cricket in summer.

In general, the same boys excel in both summer and winter sports.

An elite AFL player earns $150,000-$400,000 per year. There are no internationals. There are no overseas TV rights sales.

An elite NRL player earns about the same. There are a minimal number of internationals, and overseas TV rights sales are miniscule.

Their equivalent - a domestic cricketer - earns around $200,000 per year. And might top that up in the Big Bash. International cricketers earn much more - basically Steve Smith, Dave Warner and Mitchell Starc earn around $2 million to $3 million per year, plus IPL money.

But the potentially greater rewards don't actually make the best players choose cricket. Quite the opposite: the most talented boys almost all pick AFL or NRL even though the rewards are less than for international cricketers.

Why is this? Because they are a big fish in their own pond. If you make it in NRL, you are a superstar in every nightclub in your hometown, and everyone is impressed by your fast car and glamorous girlfriends. And you still have dinner with your mum several times each week.

Aussies are incredibly parochial. "We" alone have a basically unlimited visa class allowing us to work in the USA without a Green Card - the E3 visa. Yet hardly anybody uses it.

My point is that if there was a 6 or 8 month IPL, but that playing in it ended your international career -like the ICL did - you would get exactly the same players going as went to the ICL.

You would get the younger players who knew they had no international future. Chris Lynn. Sean Abbott.

You would get the over-30's who knew that time was running out.

But practically nobody would defect because they could earn $10 million instead of $2 million. For the same reason that the best young sportsmen go to AFL or NRL, not cricket. Massive money instead of lots of money isn't that enticing to 20-something year old Aussies.

Offer a talented 22 year old on the margins of the international game $600,000 to play for Australia - which is 3 times as much as his schoolmates in AFL or NRL - or $5 million to go and live in Mumbai and be thrown out of international cricket, and he will take the $600,000.

I emigrated from England to Australia as a junior doctor. I earn around 3 times as much as I would have if I had stayed. But I would earn twice as much - and probably pay $100,000 less tax each year - if I had gone to the USA. Yet even though I visit the USA at least 3 times each year, I wouldn't consider it for a moment. I don't want to leave my culture and I don't need the extra money.

I mean no offence, but people from Third World countries tend to think that everyone would move to somewhere new if they could turn $200,000 per year into $10 million. But people who already have exceedingly comfortable lives actually probably wouldn't.

I'm a 47 year old man. I'd probably be willing to live in Kolkata for a price. But at the age of 25 or even 30, as someone who couldn't even speak the language, no price would have made me set up my primary residence there. Not even $100 million.
 
No country is paid proportional to how much they earn in FIFA. Again you're not getting the point like someone who gets rich overnight. the body is there to promote the sport and welfare of those struggling.

The body is not there to pay for biriyani bils,air travels,junkets of certain boards.Some boards use their funds in all sorts of wrong ways.

And what is this getting rich overnight?India has been the top contributor in ICC for almost one and a half decade now.ICC was a very poor organisation when Dalmiya took over.
 
Right now BCCI is asking for $570 M out of projected revenues of $2,700 M. That is roughly 22%.

If India generates 70% of that revenue, it means it is donating 48%. That is not a sustainable situation.

I predict that in the future (next two decades), either ICC will give India 50%+ of revenues, or international cricket will be replaced by an Indian league (possibly the IPL) with India keeping 100% of the revenues it generates.

Manohar's idiocy is hastening the process of change that will result in an economically sensible outcome.

In football, FIFA's income from TV rights basically looks like this.

Germany 15%
Japan 12%
England 10%
France 8%
Mexico 8%
Italy 8%
USA 8%
South Korea 8%

Brazil is around 2%. Argentina is around 1%.

But you don't find that Mexico and Japan and South Korea call the shots. Or receive a rebate of that money.

I really don't understand why people think that in cricket there should be such a rebate.
 
There's nothing for us to talk about.

Australia's leading AFL and NRL players earn around $400,000 per year.

I'd be perfectly happy for India to depart international cricket and take veteran foreign players with them, then let us get on with it with players on $500,000 per year instead of double that.

Frankly, I wouldn't even notice if India exited the ICC and international cricket. Knock yourselves out. Be my guest. :)

Brown man doing well is not palatable. Trust me empire has looted us enough. No more.
 
In football, FIFA's income from TV rights basically looks like this.

Germany 15%
Japan 12%
England 10%
France 8%
Mexico 8%
Italy 8%
USA 8%
South Korea 8%

Brazil is around 2%. Argentina is around 1%.

But you don't find that Mexico and Japan and South Korea call the shots. Or receive a rebate of that money.

I really don't understand why people think that in cricket there should be such a rebate.

This is not practical model There are dozen countries with around 8% mark. Cricket it is India around 80% mark. Apples and oranges.
 
doesnt really expect such type of low quality post from you really..
its not a bollywood movie that a villain is trying to blackmail and some hero will stop it.
icc has sponsors & investors and many other stuff which they need to look for.
honestly im not much informed about that stuff than you . . so i always expect good post from you .

But ICC did not force India to back out. India chose too.

People need to stop seeing this as India vs the world. Its not. Its BCCI vs the world. If I was ICC, I would drop India. Their public would turn on the bureaucratic losers so fast. I bet some of the players would too. At that point, ICC would be in driver seat.

And ICC would not have to repay any TV rights or sponsorship deals because again, ICC did not violate rules. BCCI did. So ICC well within their right to dismiss India. Keep the money. And let the public destroy BCCI.

Then again, BCCSL and BCB would never let this happen and likely vote against any such resolution. I bet those two boards would be willing to lie down and let India into the comp for their spot.
 
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The body is not there to pay for biriyani bils,air travels,junkets of certain boards.Some boards use their funds in all sorts of wrong ways.

And what is this getting rich overnight?India has been the top contributor in ICC for almost one and a half decade now.ICC was a very poor organisation when Dalmiya took over.

Let me ask you. If there is little or no competition...then what is the point of international cricket? Or should we just convert IPL into a full domestic league format for the year (four day one day) and just enjoy that?

Curious to know what Indian fans vision for cricket is. It can't continue at the current rate if the revenue is split in the way it is.
 
OK, understand, India brings most money for ICC, but why they have to blackmail all the time, why can;t they act more professionally and follow the rule made for all , how hard is it ?
 
OK, understand, India brings most money for ICC, but why they have to blackmail all the time, why can;t they act more professionally and follow the rule made for all , how hard is it ?

Let me flip the argument. When the ICC knows that BCCI is not behaving (for several years), why do they not take any disciplinary action? Why doesn't the ICC call out BCCI? As the governing body ICC has the right.
 
Wrong.

The BCCI contributes precisely ZERO.

Private Indian TV networks pay the money.

Britain's broadcasters BBC and ITV pay huge sums to show FIFA and UEFA football tournaments. But the English Football Association (population 58 million) gets less FIFA money than the Uruguay Football Federation (population 3 million, whose TV network Tenfield pays less than 0.1% of what BBC/ITVpay.

It's a protection racket by the BCCI. They pretend that they deliver the money when actually private TV networks do.

The BCCI should get no more ICC money than anyone else.

You are quite incorrect. Revenue generates in terms of broadcasting rights, ticket sales all are part of the money put forth. The private networks buy the ad slots for what? Aware if the revenue being generated by it? ICC isn't an NGO and a fair share of the revenue generated goes to them.
You are quite off lad. And ofcourse BCCI deserves way more than its getting. Shorthanding BCCI to overcome the lack of competency of other boards isn't correct.
BCCI built itself as a force to reckon with and it shouldn't be agreeing to anything less.
 
OK, understand, India brings most money for ICC, but why they have to blackmail all the time, why can;t they act more professionally and follow the rule made for all , how hard is it ?

Because the rule trying to be implemented is unfair. A big pay cut is being announced for no good reason. Why so? If the criteria is performance based or viewership based or numbers based - India would be ahead in all of those categories. So despite superior performance in all matrices why take a pay cut?
 
OK, understand, India brings most money for ICC, but why they have to blackmail all the time, why can;t they act more professionally and follow the rule made for all , how hard is it ?

If you do a pay cut, you need to give reasons behind it. BCCI asked for the logic behind it yet ICC couldn't gave the basis for this revenue model. What else do you expect BCCI to do?
 
But ICC did not force India to back out. India chose too.

People need to stop seeing this as India vs the world. Its not. Its BCCI vs the world. If I was ICC, I would drop India. Their public would turn on the bureaucratic losers so fast. I bet some of the players would too. At that point, ICC would be in driver seat.

And ICC would not have to repay any TV rights or sponsorship deals because again, ICC did not violate rules. BCCI did. So ICC well within their right to dismiss India. Keep the money. And let the public destroy BCCI.

Then again, BCCSL and BCB would never let this happen and likely vote against any such resolution. I bet those two boards would be willing to lie down and let India into the comp for their spot.

That's where you are incorrect, you are quite plainly assuming that Indian public would turn against BCCI - BCCI is working for Indian cricket and playing cricket or CT that's not important. - heck boycott ICC altogether and open a new World Cricket Council and I am all for that . Don't think Indian public is that level of special.
 
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Wrong.

The BCCI contributes precisely ZERO.

Private Indian TV networks pay the money.

Britain's broadcasters BBC and ITV pay huge sums to show FIFA and UEFA football tournaments. But the English Football Association (population 58 million) gets less FIFA money than the Uruguay Football Federation (population 3 million, whose TV network Tenfield pays less than 0.1% of what BBC/ITVpay.

It's a protection racket by the BCCI. They pretend that they deliver the money when actually private TV networks do.

The BCCI should get no more ICC money than anyone else.

And why do the Indian network pay such huge sums? Don't act naive.
 
No country is paid proportional to how much they earn in FIFA. Again you're not getting the point like someone who gets rich overnight. the body is there to promote the sport and welfare of those struggling.

I think if you think about the welfare of those who are struggling, then certainly Aus, Eng, NZ and Ireland should get nothing at all and the South Asian countries should get everything. And certainly ICC should not be given $160 million for its office expenses.

ICC actually does very little besides scheduling a few tours and tournaments. The have to be living high on the hog to need $160 million.
 
In football, FIFA's income from TV rights basically looks like this.

Germany 15%
Japan 12%
England 10%
France 8%
Mexico 8%
Italy 8%
USA 8%
South Korea 8%

Brazil is around 2%. Argentina is around 1%.

But you don't find that Mexico and Japan and South Korea call the shots. Or receive a rebate of that money.

I really don't understand why people think that in cricket there should be such a rebate.

In your list there is no country which provides 70% of the revenues and gets back only 22%.

Your example of FIFA is quite poor anyway. FIFA is a role model for what should be avoided rather than what should be. It is the most corrupt international sports organization and many of its leaders are headed to jail.
 
This thread has to a significant extent turned into a post-colonial power play. But of course in reality, Shashank Manohar was kept on at the ICC to ensure a compromise, and the negotiation of that is what is occuring behind the scenes.

As this forum goes, I like to think that you and I are good friends. We argue, but for pleasure, and I respect your views and I enjoy what I learn from you.
.

Of course, I certainly do consider you a good friend and I for one, don't take arguments or disagreements personaly.

A lot of your points are rather valid. It's certainly true that Indians are extremely mercenary when it comes to making money and in particular getting out of our country and culture.

I'll even to an extent take your observation that Aussies might not care as much about money as other things.

Your BIG mistake is in comparing status quo with that future case. The point is the question isn't even whether Starc and his peers go. It's whether Amir or Shehzad or Umar Akmal will. As long as enough international players from certain countries: South Africa, SL, Pakistan, NZL, etc go it simply won't matter if Australians don't care, or Englishmen don't. The alternative is dead. I am sure when there is utterly substandard international cricket because every first choice for most countries is in the IPL, and when they are being paid less than NRL or AFL guys because the ICC revenues contributed by India have been gutted, then these kids WILL pick the $5 million over international cricket against 3rd string foes being paid peanuts.
 
I asked the ICC about this and they stated that there is no penalty for late submission of the squad.
 
Of course, I certainly do consider you a good friend and I for one, don't take arguments or disagreements personaly.

A lot of your points are rather valid. It's certainly true that Indians are extremely mercenary when it comes to making money and in particular getting out of our country and culture.

I'll even to an extent take your observation that Aussies might not care as much about money as other things.

Your BIG mistake is in comparing status quo with that future case. The point is the question isn't even whether Starc and his peers go. It's whether Amir or Shehzad or Umar Akmal will. As long as enough international players from certain countries: South Africa, SL, Pakistan, NZL, etc go it simply won't matter if Australians don't care, or Englishmen don't. The alternative is dead. I am sure when there is utterly substandard international cricket because every first choice for most countries is in the IPL, and when they are being paid less than NRL or AFL guys because the ICC revenues contributed by India have been gutted, then these kids WILL pick the $5 million over international cricket against 3rd string foes being paid peanuts.

Brilliant post. But I just want to flag some points that the BCCI should be aware of. (Even though I think a compromise is coming).

BCCI ideas about holding the ICC to ransom are based on the principle "we deliver 80% of the money. They need us."

But that assumes the continuation of the current non-revenue sharing model. And that's a faulty assumption.

I established in my earlier post that Australia's three winter sports (Australian football, rugby league and rugby union) are each played and followed by around a third of the country, yet the first two each - without overseas TV sales - support 16 team leagues in which players earn $150,000-$400,000.

Your model in which India takes the best South African and Kiwi and Bangladesh and West Indies players assumes that they could only earn $50,000-$100,000 from their Boards in a Minus India world.

But look at the negotiations in Australia now. Cricket Australia has offered a contract in which even women's players earn $239,000 per year, but is refusing to sign its own offer.

That tells me two things. Firstly that they know that the BCCI might walk out. Not likely, but possible. And secondly that if that happens, they know that the $239,000 for women's players and $279,000 for Domestic First Class mens' players, combined audience zero, might need to be used to ensure that in a post-India world there are international opponents to play.

As I wrote, two separate domestic-market only football codes support 16 team leagues with every player on $150-400,000. Australian cricket alone could support the ICC.

But then there's England.

We all get bogged down on Indian TV money. But in reality, English Test tours are more positive for an economy because of the number of visiting fans filling the hotels of every city. I go to the Adelaide Test each year, but this year my favoured hotel insisted I pay $420 per night in full in advance, a year in advance. And [MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] will understand just how gutted I am about this, because shortly afterwards I return home to England, and if I wasn't locked in to the Adelaide Test I could have watched Bananarama and Steps live on consecutive nights!

I'm sure a compromise is being thrashed out. But whereas the only PCB and WICB plans depend upon scheduling Indian tours, the failure of Cricket Australia to conclude their own domestic playing deal tells me that they and the ECB have a Minus India contingency plan, in which they fund a global revenue sharing model in which the ICC itself employs every country's elite players on contracts comparable in size to domestic Australian football codes, i.e. $150,000 to $400,000 per year.

Which, to be honest, is preferable to having to endlessly grovel to India.

Because I actually don't care if Mitchell Starc and Joe Root are only offered $400,000 each year instead of $2 million. And I still think they'd accept that until they reached the age of 30 and then went to India to cash in for five years.

And if it means that Quinton De Kock and Trent Boult earn $400,000 per year instead of $150,000, and are less likely to defect to India until they are 30 years old, it's a step forwards, not backwards.
 
I hope India do boycott the event, it would be one less team to worry about.
 
Blessing in disguise actually! Indian team is not that good in shape right now and they deserve much needed rest after the long Test Season and IPL. They need to resurrect after that with some bilaterals (overseas) cricket without getting embarrassed in an ICC tournament!

Money rules everything. ICC with its money is doing nothing. If development of poor countries (in cricket terms) is the criteria, then India (BCCI) will do it on their own by inviting individuals from these countries (like Afghanistan, Nepal, China, etc) and will give them the confidence and platform to grow big! (In comparison to ICC's meaningless qualification world cups, cricket between lesser teams, etc! This will no way help cricket in these countries grow! ICC does this just to escape/show some responsibility!) If cricketers (of course TOP) from these nations start playing with TOP quality cricketers in IPL, they will grow much quicker (more such players will get in). In that way their domestic cricket will also improve (they gain interest and motivation). Also these teams getting qualified in some ICC tournaments and getting beaten brutally in one-sided boring matches will give no motivation besides killing the competition of the tournament!

If ICC doesn't approve to BCCI's fair deal, then there is a chance that International Cricket will die (its already dying) even England, Australia, South Africa (even Bangladesh!) will stick to their local leagues and even India may start sending their players to these leagues without much international cricket which will only help these leagues grow even bigger! (International Cricket will only be some bilaterals like India vs. Australia, Australia vs. England, India vs. South Africa, etc even these may eventually die after 10-20-30 years!) Teams like WI, NZ, SL, etc will simply disperse & their players may get moved to other countries or become active in leagues of all the upper countries! These countries may still continue producing TOP cricketers because of the promise of these leagues but their boards will not be potent enough organize bilaterals & unite their players!

I think looking at all these (and forum), it appears like only Pakistan wants ICC and supports ICC's strategies because they are in no man's land (Can't have two way bilateral cricket, not too comprehensive domestic structure, no IPL for them!), so they look at ICC's model of globalization and sharing, so that they can claim good money! But that is not going to happen (Is it possible for super power countries like America to distribute all their wealth & revenue to poor countries in Africa, Asia, Oceania, etc on "humanity" basis, so that all human beings in the world live peacefully & prosperously?)

And there is no surprise in the down-voting of all countries against India, this only indicates they want money (whether it comes through ICC events OR through bilaterals with India OR players themselves directly getting through IPL - it doesn't matter)
 
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Of course, I certainly do consider you a good friend and I for one, don't take arguments or disagreements personaly.

A lot of your points are rather valid. It's certainly true that Indians are extremely mercenary when it comes to making money and in particular getting out of our country and culture.

I'll even to an extent take your observation that Aussies might not care as much about money as other things.

Your BIG mistake is in comparing status quo with that future case. The point is the question isn't even whether Starc and his peers go. It's whether Amir or Shehzad or Umar Akmal will. As long as enough international players from certain countries: South Africa, SL, Pakistan, NZL, etc go it simply won't matter if Australians don't care, or Englishmen don't. The alternative is dead. I am sure when there is utterly substandard international cricket because every first choice for most countries is in the IPL, and when they are being paid less than NRL or AFL guys because the ICC revenues contributed by India have been gutted, then these kids WILL pick the $5 million over international cricket against 3rd string foes being paid peanuts.

I, for one can assure you that Pakistani's are crazy people. We may be living in a third world country but there is one thing that we all have and that is pride. Pakistani's are to some extent narcissistic people when it comes to their identity and I can guarantee you, 90% of the Pakistani's won't play no matter how much money they're being offered given the circumstances. Of course, I'm all for peace but Anti India sentiments have become extremely high in Pakistan in the past year and just recently after the confession of the Taliban leader of Indian involvement.

The best you will get is South Africa, Windies and NZ. And let me remind you, the situation in South Africa is just the same as that of Australia or Britain. Cricket, outside of the subcontinent is an elitist sport and only the rich can afford and choose to play. Majority of the people who play cricket in South Africa are white, rich young men who have no fear of their financial backgrounds. Sure, you have your average Joe black cricketer but even the likes Rabada (a black cricketer) are from elite backgrounds.

And I can assure you, rich young men will choose to stay with their families instead of living in a third world country for most part of the year. No offence intended but even the smell of Bombay and the dust of Delhi will drive these spoiled cricketers away.

And yes, you will get the largely uninterested Windies cricketers who are more focused on other sports now and yes you will get your New Zealand cricketers who would much rather play baseball.
 
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