India vs South Africa | 3rd Test | Johannesburg | Jan 24-28, 2018 | Day 3 | Discussion Thread [#490]

[Nitya85]

Ya in last one hour it suddenly change its colour and become too dangerous
Whole day it was flarmt track thts why indian FTB scoring soft runs on it
Facepalm

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

Sorry this post got lost in the shuffle.

Yes, I'd definitely rate Ashwin's performances as an all rounder in this series, not as much as a bowler. He was toothless in the only innings he was supposed to be the prime bowler in i.e the second innings at Centurion. He had a grand total of 2 top order wickets in the series. Not good enough as a bowler but decent as a bowling all rounder.

As for Kohli, he has been start stop in this series. Obviously the 153 is the best innings of the series but still De Villiers has been the best batsman of this series to me, if he fails in the 2nd innings then Kohli would be the best batsman of the series.

Ok thank you.

To understand better, let me cover this one by one.

Kohli scored 150 single handedly bringing India close to SA total in Cape Town. He scored both innings this test. He scored when wickets were falling around him. Averages over 50 in this series. Yet Devilliers has done better uptil now even before the final innings is played?

I thought Kohli was ahead and it would take a special knock from Devilliers to match him. You suggest the opposite as of now.

Coming to Ashwin. 2 top order wickets? I assume you don't count DeKock's wicket or dropped catches? Or the fact that in one of the test, he came on to bowl only in the end?

What about dismissing 8 batsmen 10 times in first innings Centurion (4 wickets plus Rabada, Faf, Maharaj misjudged catch, Amla drop tough chance by Pandya, Amla late reaction by Vijay) or the drop of Faf at a crucial juncture in 2nd innings? And what about Maharaj's average of 125 when he came into the series averaging 25 outside Asia? Also what about the last 2 wickets in Cape Town when tailenders were scoring runs and wagging on for on and on and Ashwin effecting 3 wickets (with a run out) to finish off their innings?

Here's Ashwin's average is catches were held: 17.83

Still a poor performance with the ball? Interesting.

 

[Ozymandiasza]

The antics of SA batsmen were pretty evident.

Cant play on their own pitches if asked to bat last. Chickens.

"The decision to take players off is the umpires'. "

 

[troodon]

The play with continue tomorrow at 10 AM.

So lets put an end to these comments, name calling and allegations.

SA are only 1 down. Lots of batting to come. They can win this too. Both sides have equal chance of winning this.

 

[Lefthanded]

Many of us come from/live in countries where there's few, if any, safety regulations and laws concerning the environment.

Or people.

Children slave in sweatshops, sell flowers in streets, sometimes without sight or all their limbs. More relatedly, visiting players can vomit during a match in Delhi, home players can act like they're faking vomiting, sickness or being sissies. When health officials, local and international, have pointed out how very sickly it was to breathe that Delhi air, much less play a sport that can last 5 days, it was irrelevant to this team management. Somehow SL were the 'sissies' for having lungs that don't breathe poison every day.

So the idea of safety can seem irrelevant. Empathy is in short supply. It also seems irrelevant that an Australian died in a freak accident on a safe pitch some years ago, but it could OBVIOUSLY NEVER happen on an unsafe pitch. Let's bet someone else's lives on that!

The test of safety isn't whether a serious accident happened or not, or something almost went horribly wrong. That's like a post-mortem not a preventative decision for safety reasons.

And people who have seen a bit of cricket would know that most pitches deteriorate and fall apart. That they aren't a time-bomb, and suddenly stuff begins to happen and even a safe pitch changes without a notice.

So a pitch can be tough and dicey for a bit, but that CAN change in moments or innings.

My own personal stake in the result is an India win, but if the umpires think the pitch isn't safe. Then it isn't safe.

On a good note: Delighted about Rahane.

I hope it ends up being fine and we get another cracking day of Test cricket. If the pitch isn't that dangerous, and is as tough as it has been so far, I don't think India will necessarily win.

 

[Proactive_]

Ok thank you.

To understand better, let me cover this one by one.

Kohli scored 150 single handedly bringing India close to SA total in Cape Town. He scored both innings this test. He scored when wickets were falling around him. Averages over 50 in this series. Yet Devilliers has done better uptil now even before the final innings is played?

I thought Kohli was ahead and it would take a special knock from Devilliers to match him. You suggest the opposite as of now.

Coming to Ashwin. 2 top order wickets? I assume you don't count DeKock's wicket or dropped catches? Or the fact that in one of the test, he came on to bowl only in the end?

What about dismissing 8 batsmen 10 times in first innings Centurion (4 wickets plus Rabada, Faf, Maharaj misjudged catch, Amla drop tough chance by Pandya, Amla late reaction by Vijay) or the drop of Faf at a crucial juncture in 2nd innings? And what about Maharaj's average of 125 when he came into the series averaging 25 outside Asia? Also what about the last 2 wickets in Cape Town when tailenders were scoring runs and wagging on for on and on and Ashwin effecting 3 wickets (with a run out) to finish off their innings?

Here's Ashwin's average is catches were held: 17.83

Still a poor performance with the ball? Interesting.

As I said, Ashwin was decent but nothing mind boggling, I'd still have taken him over Pandya in this Test for his batting. "Catches were not taken", "DRS was not taken", "Umpires call".. if you're accounting these factors for someone, you got to account for all. For instance Pujara was out for 0 in the first Innings if DRS had been taken, Kohli would have been out twice in the 1st innings and so on. Ashwin was very unremarkable in the 2nd innings at Centurion where there was considerable spin on offer and he was the prime bowler before the seamers. That's a significant negative point.

De Villiers' innings were pretty much the deciding factor in both the previous Test matches whereas Kohli totally failed in the first Test match. As I said, if ABD does it again then it's 3 on 3 for him which obviously would take him past Kohli for this series. If he fails then it's 2 for both and Kohli gets the nod for playing the best innings of the series at Centurion.

 

[wrongun]

Imagine Ambrose and Walsh bowling on this pitch, the batting team would struggle to muster even a hundred.

Ambrose bowled an incredible spell of 7 wickets for A SINGLE RUN on a similar pitch at the WACA in the early 90s. Guy was so accurate to hit the crack every time at high pace.

 

[KingKhanWC]

This has been a really good effort by India who are favourites to win this test.

Although I feel an AB masterclass could bring tears to the tourists eyes tomorrow.

 

[sensible-indian-fan]

As I said, Ashwin was decent but nothing mind boggling, I'd still have taken him over Pandya in this Test for his batting. "Catches were not taken", "DRS was not taken", "Umpires call".. if you're accounting these factors for someone, you got to account for all. For instance Pujara was out for 0 in the first Innings if DRS had been taken, Kohli would have been out twice in the 1st innings and so on. Ashwin was very unremarkable in the 2nd innings at Centurion where there was considerable spin on offer and he was the prime bowler before the seamers. That's a significant negative point.

De Villiers' innings were pretty much the deciding factor in both the previous Test matches whereas Kohli totally failed in the first Test match. As I said, if ABD does it again then it's 3 on 3 for him which obviously would take him past Kohli for this series. If he fails then it's 2 for both and Kohli gets the nod for playing the best innings of the series at Centurion.

No one called Ashwin mindboggling. There is something between mind boggling and doing nothing.

The considerable spin on offer is a simplistic way of looking at stuff. There is more to it than what meets the eye. When a pitch is way too slow, spin doesn't matter much (in domestics, you can see 400 meets 500 scores on slow slow pitches that turn).

Moreover, if considerable spin was on offer, why didn't opposition spinner (who picked bucketload of wickets in England, NZ and SA) couldn't pick a single one in fourth innings even when we were starring down the barrel? Ashwin could have done better but you make it sound like he did nothing. He got countless beatens and close shots in the 2nd innings. Elgar was fluking against him so bad.

Reg catches - It's easy to say "woulda shoulda coulda doesn't work" but when the situation is so dire with tons of errors from others, then woulda shoulda coulda matters a lot. He got like like 6-7 catches dropped in one test match. That's a game (sometimes series) changing level fiasco.

Anyways, since you criticize these 2 non stop without acknowledging anything they do, I wanted your viewpoint. Thank you for that.

 

[hadi123]

Umpires chose to end play prematurely on day three of the third Test between South Africa and India because of concerns over the Johannesburg pitch.

Cracks in the Wanderers surface widened to cause inconsistent, exaggerated bounce and excessive seam movement.

Play was halted after the Proteas' Dean Elgar was hit on the helmet grille by a bouncer from India's Jasprit Bumrah - the fourth blow he had suffered.

It was later confirmed that the match would resume as scheduled on Saturday.

Earlier, players from both sides had been hit by sharply rising deliveries, with India opener Murali Vijay struck five times in the first session alone.

Captains Faf du Plessis and Virat Kohli were then called into a meeting with the umpires - Pakistan's Aleem Dar and England's Ian Gould - and match referee Andy Pycroft in accordance with International Cricket Council regulations.

Only three batsmen have so far reached 50 in the match, with South Africa needing a further 224 runs for victory with nine wickets remaining.

The Proteas are already assured of winning the series, leading 2-0 going into this final Test.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/42837636

 

[Last Monetarist]

Ambrose bowled an incredible spell of 7 wickets for A SINGLE RUN on a similar pitch at the WACA in the early 90s. Guy was so accurate to hit the crack every time at high pace.

Oui, I remembered that spell when I typed the post. There was also another infamous pitch at the WACA in 1997 where Greg Blewett got out to a positive grubber -

 

[Proactive_]

No one called Ashwin mindboggling. There is something between mind boggling and doing nothing.

I didn't say he did nothing. He was average on the whole with the ball and way below expectations in Centurion which is a fair assessment.

The considerable spin on offer is a simplistic way of looking at stuff. There is more to it than what meets the eye. When a pitch is way too slow, spin doesn't matter much (in domestics, you can see 400 meets 500 scores on slow slow pitches that turn).

Ok.

Moreover, if considerable spin was on offer, why didn't opposition spinner (who picked bucketload of wickets in England, NZ and SA) couldn't pick a single one in fourth innings even when we were starring down the barrel?

Because he's a much less experienced guy bowling to much more accomplished batsmen against spin. Indians were rightfully not that adventurous against him as they were against Moeen Ali in 2014 and nudged him around for 3 RPO.

Ashwin could have done better but you make it sound like he did nothing. He got countless beatens and close shots in the 2nd innings. Elgar was fluking against him so bad.

The onus is on him to do well now. He's been playing since the start of this decade and the decade is about to end in 2 years. This cycle of overseas tours will decide his legacy as the next batch would be when he's 35+ and you never know in the mid 30s where your career will be. As it stands, he ends up with an average of 46 in SA. Let's see what he does in England, on a couple of pitches which do aid spin bowling.

Reg catches - It's easy to say "woulda shoulda coulda doesn't work" but when the situation is so dire with tons of errors from others, then woulda shoulda coulda matters a lot. He got like like 6-7 catches dropped in one test match. That's a game (sometimes series) changing level fiasco.

That's life. The SA quicks had quite a few dropped off them as well and India's slip cordon is well known. Hell, SA is pretty much losing this Test match because of their fielding as well.

Anyways, since you criticize these 2 non stop without acknowledging anything they do, I wanted your viewpoint. Thank you for that.

You're welcome.

 

[Marikar]

Pardon me, I have a doubt.. If play restarts tomorrow, will the pitch be repaired? That's a matter of concern since Indian bowlers will lose the privilege of bowling in a dubiously bouncing wicket.

And why protest the batting has been called off? Wouldn't be snowy morning conditions suit bowlers most?

 

[Marikar]

Please Answer

Pardon me, I have a doubt.. If play restarts tomorrow, will the pitch be repaired? That's a matter of concern since Indian bowlers will lose the privilege of bowling in a dubiously bouncing wicket.

And why protest the batting has been called off? Wouldn't be snowy morning conditions suit bowlers most?

 

[Princejain191]

Pardon me, I have a doubt.. If play restarts tomorrow, will the pitch be repaired? That's a matter of concern since Indian bowlers will lose the privilege of bowling in a dubiously bouncing wicket.

And why protest the batting has been called off? Wouldn't be snowy morning conditions suit bowlers most?

No, it won't be repaired. Will start from where it was left.

 

[Mr.Q]

Amidst the drama created by Elgar's incompetence with the bat, Rahane's much awaited knock stood out. No player should be guaranteed a place in the XI. One should earn it. He always had the talent but with today's performance he has earned a spot in the XI for the next tour. Glad to see him back in form.

I don't think winning this test match would be very easy for India. SA batsmen are quite patient and they bat deep.

 

[Mr.Q]

And why protest the batting has been called off? Wouldn't be snowy morning conditions suit bowlers most?

Pitch condition is only one of the variables in bowling. Pressure created and rhythm of the bowlers are important. They were under pressure today and our bowlers were bowling really well. But they managed to get off the hook. Tomorrow we'll have to start all over again and they get a fresh start.

 

[Abdullah]

India just scored 250 here.

Yes a GREAT effort. But the whole drama that has now come to pass will be in the SA players heads which is a bit unfair.

 

[Lefthanded]

Amidst the drama created by Elgar's incompetence with the bat, Rahane's much
awaited knock stood out. No player should be guaranteed a place in the XI. One should earn it. He always had the talent but with today's performance he has earned a spot in the XI for the next tour. Glad to see him back in form.

I don't think winning this test match would be very easy for India. SA batsmen are quite patient and they bat deep.

Weren't you the one rubbishing him when he failed in the first innings? After such a long break from any cricket, it's a marvel he scored at all.

 

[urnotserious]

Except there's one difference.. raging turners are not a detriment to one's health like this pitch this.

India didn't seem feel like their health was in detriment for 2 whole innings. Are you saying India has better bowlers that can take advantage of this dangerous pitch that SA bowlers couldn't?

 

[wrongun]

Oui, I remembered that spell when I typed the post. There was also another infamous pitch at the WACA in 1997 where Greg Blewett got out to a positive grubber -

Ho ho, forgot about that one. Again just homing In on the crack like a guided missile. Curtly was the reason I started watching cricket when he toured oz in 87 or 88. As a little kid in the Australian suburbs he just seemed like an alien- spellbinding bowler with a fierce demeanour.

 

[JaDed]

Controversies aside, looks like an exciting match tmrw , hopefully our bowlers and slip catching come through.

 

[Romali_rotti]

I dont see SA chasing this, no way in hell, the wicket is just too bowler friendly and they dont have the batsmen for it. Once Amla falls, I think it will be game over..

 

[Mr.Q]

Weren't you the one rubbishing him when he failed in the first innings? After such a long break from any cricket, it's a marvel he scored at all.

If I did, I wouldn't have praised him now . I was talking about the selection policies and why Rahane didn't deserve a place in the playing XI for the first test. I still stand by whatever I said. And what do you mean by loooong break? He played in the Test series against SL in December. He looked so out of touch in that series that he even tried to slog his way out of it. His stats in detail were also attached in my response to soso_killer. There's no way he could have been selected for the first Test. I think I'm explaining this for the millionth time.