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Indian troops fire live rounds to disperse thousands of protesters in Srinagar: Al Jazeera

Non binding UN resolutions.

UN cannot decide to divide a country.

What about UN Human Rights Council. I'm pretty sure taking fundamental rights away from Kashimiri people like right to voice an opinion in the current blackout phase merits for a case to be registered and heard.
 
The revised resolution (one year later) called for both armies to be removed.

Whether the people wanted to be independent or not was the point of the resolution.

Kashmir is not part of India and the what Modi did is illegal.

Ok?

Google about UNSC plebisite. It's all over the web. Illegal according to who? 370 and 35a are based on Indian constitution. They removed it as per the constitution. It will be challenged in the supreme Court based on the fact that J&K assembly which is a substitute apparently for constituent assembly. However according to Indian laws, both houses of parliament can act on behalf of a state assembly under President rule. That validity will be judged. It's not illegal anywhere else as UNSC regulations or any other don't even mention 370 or 35a. Pakistan never even accepted 370 or 35a so they are not even illegal in Pakistan.That last part was rhetorical as Pakistan doesn't have a jurisdiction in J&K
 
What about UN Human Rights Council. I'm pretty sure taking fundamental rights away from Kashimiri people like right to voice an opinion in the current blackout phase merits for a case to be registered and heard.

Are the right taken away permanantly? Is the curfiew permanant? There's your answer
 
The accessation document signed by Hari Singh was the exact same as 500 other princely states. So not sure which conditions you are talking about here.

What does this mean?

"Hari Singh sought special privileges for his people on the lines of a 1927 law that denied outsiders the right to own property in the state. This law restricted the right to own property in Jammu and Kashmir in line of inheritance onl"

https://www.indiatoday.in/news-anal...uation-article-370-history-1578495-2019-08-08
 
Google about UNSC plebisite. It's all over the web. Illegal according to who? 370 and 35a are based on Indian constitution. They removed it as per the constitution. It will be challenged in the supreme Court based on the fact that J&K assembly which is a substitute apparently for constituent assembly. However according to Indian laws, both houses of parliament can act on behalf of a state assembly under President rule. That validity will be judged. It's not illegal anywhere else as UNSC regulations or any other don't even mention 370 or 35a. Pakistan never even accepted 370 or 35a so they are not even illegal in Pakistan.That last part was rhetorical as Pakistan doesn't have a jurisdiction in J&K

Correct me i’m wrong but the ascension firstly should not have happened and once it did it was on the basis of 370 and 35a.

So surely before doing something so fundamental as this, the vote should first go to the people?
 
It doesn’t take much effort to bring out the littler Hitlers in some..
Looks like ran out of arguments. What I mentioned above is my understanding of the possibilities in terms of reality and practicality.

The name calling is uncalled for. I am not promoting genocide for you to say that.
 
Looks like ran out of arguments. What I mentioned above is my understanding of the possibilities in terms of reality and practicality.

The name calling is uncalled for. I am not promoting genocide for you to say that.

You’re either missing the points or deliberately choosing to ignore them and dealing in absolutes... a closed mind.

Extremist thinking.
 
You’re either missing the points or deliberately choosing to ignore them and dealing in absolutes... a closed mind.

Extremist thinking.

We can go in circles here - since you appear the same to me.

lets agree to disagree. This is what we mean by "settle".
 
Its funny, the 370 which Pakistan wants, if they read the article, the first few lines it says J&K being part of India.
 
Thats true with a temporary and transient conditions. 70 years is temporary enough, no?

There was no time limit. Hari Singh thought in 70 years Kashmir would be like middle Europe blooming and rich but it's a war zone. Under such circumstances taking unilateral decision as this goes against any deal made and goes against any moral code of dealing with people.

It doesn't matter now what happens , Kashmiris will never accept Indian rule as long as they are all alive. A very stupid move by Modi and his fascist BJP party. I assume you are also a Hindutva follower?
 
There was no time limit. Hari Singh thought in 70 years Kashmir would be like middle Europe blooming and rich but it's a war zone. Under such circumstances taking unilateral decision as this goes against any deal made and goes against any moral code of dealing with people.

It doesn't matter now what happens , Kashmiris will never accept Indian rule as long as they are all alive. A very stupid move by Modi and his fascist BJP party. I assume you are also a Hindutva follower?

I have never voted anywhere in the world in 39 years. I am close to a nationalist if you want to categorize me.

I am a Hindu and but not an avid follower nor do I know much about Hindutva
 
I have never voted anywhere in the world in 39 years. I am close to a nationalist if you want to categorize me.

I am a Hindu and but not an avid follower nor do I know much about Hindutva

Hindutva is tarnishing your religion but like many other Hindus you are putting your nationalist feelings above respecting your religion. Anyway lets stick to the topic.

Do you agree with live rounds directed at men, women and children?
 
Hindutva is tarnishing your religion but like many other Hindus you are putting your nationalist feelings above respecting your religion. Anyway lets stick to the topic.

Do you agree with live rounds directed at men, women and children?
I dont think anyone wants that. The forces would do that if there is non peaceful/violent protest.
 
Just saw a BBC report where they sneaked in journalists and Kashmiris are literally spitting on the Indians. Good luck after you remove your troops.

Just look at the contrarian view. This has been going on and contained easily by India for over 70 years. How and why is this any different?
 
Correct me i’m wrong but the ascension firstly should not have happened and once it did it was on the basis of 370 and 35a.

So surely before doing something so fundamental as this, the vote should first go to the people?

No issue with accession. That's what happened in every princely state. In majority of states, the people and the king were in agreement and it was easy. In Junagadh and with Nizam, the kings wanted to go with Pakistan or be independent. A plebisite was held in Junagadh and Nizam was taken by force. Pakistan didn't fight over Nizam because it was geographically impossible to govern. In Kashmir, the first step, the accession by king was done. A plebisite was supposed to be held after Pakistan removed it's forces. That never happened. Later on there was clear shift of loyalties of Kashmiris from India to Pakistan. India wasn't going to allow plebisite after that. The hearts and minds of Kashmiris are with Pakistan but India has the land. Pakistan wants the hearts and minds and land. India is happy with just land. 370, 35a are all laws passed years later by Indian presidential decree and are not relevant to UNSC regulations.
 
I dont think anyone wants that. The forces would do that if there is non peaceful/violent protest.

Dont make excuses and if you dont agree be clear. It seems like other Indians you are reluctant to say anything which could across as negative towards the government.

This is oppression of masses not law and order against a gang or two.
 
Just look at the contrarian view. This has been going on and contained easily by India for over 70 years. How and why is this any different?

The 40+ Indian soldiers killed in Feb was part of the containment or do you believe it was a fasle flag?
 
Are the right taken away permanantly? Is the curfiew permanant? There's your answer

Are you suggesting that only permanent curfew is a violation of human rights, temporary curfew is no violation? I actually thought an "act" is classified as a violation didn't knew its the length of time that defined it.
 
Are you suggesting that only permanent curfew is a violation of human rights, temporary curfew is no violation? I actually thought an "act" is classified as a violation didn't knew its the length of time that defined it.

I'm suggesting curfiew is temporary as a precautionary measure. I saw online that people are already out and educational institutions will be up starting Monday.
 
I'm suggesting curfiew is temporary as a precautionary measure. I saw online that people are already out and educational institutions will be up starting Monday.

I happen to see something online too which was tear gas shelling and firing of live rounds. It seems like the final decision has been made in the rest on India's mind i.e. 'this is a good decision for benefit of Kashmir'; which is the rhetoric behind this move.

The brain on rest of India is now functioning in such a way that it selectively views only those pieces which connects the dots to their final decision i.e. 'this is a good decision for the benefit of Kashmir'.

Objectively, stand back and look at the macro picture rather than selective micro inputs. Ask yourself what would you feel like if overnight 10k army personnel is deployed on your small town while your internet, communication, etc shut off centrally for entire town. You know the answer to put your selective brain would not want to say it out loud.
 
I happen to see something online too which was tear gas shelling and firing of live rounds. It seems like the final decision has been made in the rest on India's mind i.e. 'this is a good decision for benefit of Kashmir'; which is the rhetoric behind this move.

The brain on rest of India is now functioning in such a way that it selectively views only those pieces which connects the dots to their final decision i.e. 'this is a good decision for the benefit of Kashmir'.

Objectively, stand back and look at the macro picture rather than selective micro inputs. Ask yourself what would you feel like if overnight 10k army personnel is deployed on your small town while your internet, communication, etc shut off centrally for entire town. You know the answer to put your selective brain would not want to say it out loud.

You are not wrong. This is the difference: Indians have been seeing news like this for decades since the 90s. Shutdowns, curfiews. They have been desensitized as it is a daily occurence. Also, everybody thinks Kashmir is an integral part of India and there is no compromise. Any person that doesn't support Indian cause is anti national. Pakistani point of view is that Kashmir is not part of India and the kashmiris are innocent and are suffering.

When you have two drastically different perspectives, there is no consensus.
 
Have you read the conditions? Even though this clown had no right to give away others land , he stipulated the area should remain autonomous and no other people should be allowed to purchase land unless he agrees.

Who was the ruler of Kashmir? Hari Singh. Not you,nor any other pakistani. Why did pakistan attack Kashmir?

What rights did the clowns in Pakistan had to invade J and K?

What he stipulated and what he didnot, his son can clarify aand dispute, not Pakistan.
 
What about UN Human Rights Council. I'm pretty sure taking fundamental rights away from Kashimiri people like right to voice an opinion in the current blackout phase merits for a case to be registered and heard.

The decision making body of UN is the UNSC.
 
Didn't these hypocrites snatched away the very freedom that they are fighting for from Kashmiri Pandits in a much brutal way? They should just shut it and come into the fold of India. Modi's government is already on a decline with the Indian economy is on a downward spiral. He and his Hindutva version will be tossed aside in the future.
 
Didn't these hypocrites snatched away the very freedom that they are fighting for from Kashmiri Pandits in a much brutal way? They should just shut it and come into the fold of India. Modi's government is already on a decline with the Indian economy is on a downward spiral. He and his Hindutva version will be tossed aside in the future.

Ok. Thanks for your prophetic predictions.

Coming back to topic, I see that Al Jazeera has joined the bandwagon of fake news.
 
There is a difference. Those people died when they had no other option and when the living is not possible. Here people are asking to die for what? Burhan Wani died. What happened? Did he achieve anything? Was death his last resort? No. If you are a student and go to school or college who is gonna kill you? You might bring up a couple of instances but there are a million students in kashmir. If you don't throw stones at army, you won't be hurt with pellets. This is not a regular police. This is not even a regular army. It is an army with special powers. They have no need to show restraint as you saw in the 90s. Now there is no point in killing people. Peace can be attained only if people want it.

Suppose some people barge in your home.They are the people you loathe. They have lust for your women and their idiology is everything you are against of. They ll live in your home as they please and offer you peace if you dont struggle against their occupation. I think you ll be a coward one and you ll accept your fate.
 
Suppose some people barge in your home.They are the people you loathe. They have lust for your women and their idiology is everything you are against of. They ll live in your home as they please and offer you peace if you dont struggle against their occupation. I think you ll be a coward one and you ll accept your fate.

Oh geez that sounds very similar to what happened to the Pandits decades ago...
 
Tell me anywhere in the world, where 500,000- 700,000 military soldiers are used to police a group of people they claim are their own country members.

The only place this happens is when there is an invasion like that of NATO troops in Afghanistan.

India shares borders with China, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

The only place were troops are required in large numbers is the border India shares with Pakistan.

On the East of Pakistan, you have war-torn Kashmir valley. On the West of Pakistan you have war-torn Afghanistan.

It is very clear who the trouble makers are.


And I'm really really surprised to see that a nation which has had multiple military coups (and let's face it is still basically ruled by the Pak Army) is concerned about democracy and human rights in the rest of the world.

If well-meaning Pakistanis are really concerned about human rights and the well being of people, the first thing they should raise their voices against is the undemocratic annexation of Balochistan and the atrocities that happen there every day, to this day.

Unfortunately we don't see that. We see Pakistan talk about human rights but then we see that they discriminate against their own people. Non-punjabis are second class citizens in their own country. Ahmedi Muslims are not even considered Muslims by the pak state. And I'm sure we all know what West Pak thought of East Pak people and Bengalis.

A country that cannot respect their own people does not stand for anything, least of all the rights of human beings.
 
Oh geez that sounds very similar to what happened to the Pandits decades ago...

A tiny proportion of the population and from what I’ve read the Muslim Kashmiri’s would be happy to have them back in a sovereign Kashmir.
 
India shares borders with China, Pakistan and Bangladesh.

The only place were troops are required in large numbers is the border India shares with Pakistan.

On the East of Pakistan, you have war-torn Kashmir valley. On the West of Pakistan you have war-torn Afghanistan.

It is very clear who the trouble makers are.


And I'm really really surprised to see that a nation which has had multiple military coups (and let's face it is still basically ruled by the Pak Army) is concerned about democracy and human rights in the rest of the world.

If well-meaning Pakistanis are really concerned about human rights and the well being of people, the first thing they should raise their voices against is the undemocratic annexation of Balochistan and the atrocities that happen there every day, to this day.

Unfortunately we don't see that. We see Pakistan talk about human rights but then we see that they discriminate against their own people. Non-punjabis are second class citizens in their own country. Ahmedi Muslims are not even considered Muslims by the pak state. And I'm sure we all know what West Pak thought of East Pak people and Bengalis.

A country that cannot respect their own people does not stand for anything, least of all the rights of human beings.

“Take one step and we’ll take two”.
 
A tiny proportion of the population and from what I’ve read the Muslim Kashmiri’s would be happy to have them back in a sovereign Kashmir.

So you mean to say genocides are pardoned if it's done on a minority group. I see.
 
So you mean to say genocides are pardoned if it's done on a minority group. I see.

Firstly not genocide.
Secondly, they represented Hindu India.

You’re the oppressor and occupier, not me.
You work it out.

However Indians talk often about change of demographics which just isn’t true
 
A tiny proportion of the population and from what I’ve read the Muslim Kashmiri’s would be happy to have them back in a sovereign Kashmir.

300k to 600k was the Pandit population in the valley. I know the life of non muslims matter less, but still.Many were killed, rest ousted from the valley.

Non muslims do not trust these valley muslim kashmiris. They know that there would be a genocide againist them in a sovereign kashmir.

Even the Shias and the nomadic tribes do not trust the valley muslims.
 
300k to 600k was the Pandit population in the valley. I know the life of non muslims matter less, but still.Many were killed, rest ousted from the valley.

Non muslims do not trust these valley muslim kashmiris. They know that there would be a genocide againist them in a sovereign kashmir.

Even the Shias and the nomadic tribes do not trust the valley muslims.

People of Ladakh has been begging to become a union territory since 1947 because they want to move away from Kashmir Valley.

Heck even the common people of Kashmir Valley is entirely fed up with the 2 families that were ruling Kashmir for so many years.

But to some people, these few thousand people - influenced by foreign forces - are representative of over 70 lakh people of Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh.
 

What about Reuters, BBC, Sky, Washington Post, etc?

So in this video Sky Sports is reporting from Islamabad where Pakistanis are protesting against India's decision regarding Kashmir.

So else were we expecting? What am I missing here?
 
So in this video Sky Sports is reporting from Islamabad where Pakistanis are protesting against India's decision regarding Kashmir.

So else were we expecting? What am I missing here?

Try this from BBC...
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">WATCH: Despite government saying reports of protests in Saura were completely fabricated, see exclusive BBC footage here for the truth. Thousands marched, police fired on protesters, dozens injured <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Kashmir?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Kashmir</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BBCUrdu?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BBCUrdu</a> <a href="https://t.co/J0S72XuK1W">pic.twitter.com/J0S72XuK1W</a></p>— Nicola Careem (@NicolaCareem) <a href="https://twitter.com/NicolaCareem/status/1160107113890426880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 10, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Suppose some people barge in your home.They are the people you loathe. They have lust for your women and their idiology is everything you are against of. They ll live in your home as they please and offer you peace if you dont struggle against their occupation. I think you ll be a coward one and you ll accept your fate.

And you the delusional one. Stop imagining stuff. This is not a 3rd grade Bollywood movie. This is not 1990s and this is not Kashmiris that are dictating the terms here by asking Kashmiri hindu men to leave but let the women remain. Now when you do dumb stuff like that, people will remember and dish it out. You can't act like a victim now.. You gotto take the rhetoric and slap your face for doing that crap in 90s to hindus in a hindu majority country. But don't worry, its all empty rhetoric. People don't have time for this crap.
 
Try this from BBC...
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">WATCH: Despite government saying reports of protests in Saura were completely fabricated, see exclusive BBC footage here for the truth. Thousands marched, police fired on protesters, dozens injured <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Kashmir?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Kashmir</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BBCUrdu?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BBCUrdu</a> <a href="https://t.co/J0S72XuK1W">pic.twitter.com/J0S72XuK1W</a></p>— Nicola Careem (@NicolaCareem) <a href="https://twitter.com/NicolaCareem/status/1160107113890426880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 10, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Just goes to show goverment of India knows Kashmiris want nothing to do with them. That's why they persist with massive number of troops.
 
Try this from BBC...
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">WATCH: Despite government saying reports of protests in Saura were completely fabricated, see exclusive BBC footage here for the truth. Thousands marched, police fired on protesters, dozens injured <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Kashmir?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Kashmir</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BBCUrdu?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BBCUrdu</a> <a href="https://t.co/J0S72XuK1W">pic.twitter.com/J0S72XuK1W</a></p>— Nicola Careem (@NicolaCareem) <a href="https://twitter.com/NicolaCareem/status/1160107113890426880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 10, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Tempers are high as expected. Looks like a peaceful protest which is within the rights of the people. They were dispersed with firing in the air. It will continue for a while. No killings and no blinding. Videos like this are part of Kashmir for decades and there is fatigue in the world. As long as it is peaceful with no one getting hurt, consider it part of a process.
 
Tempers are high as expected. Looks like a peaceful protest which is within the rights of the people. They were dispersed with firing in the air. It will continue for a while. No killings and no blinding. Videos like this are part of Kashmir for decades and there is fatigue in the world. As long as it is peaceful with no one getting hurt, consider it part of a process.

Peaceful?

They are having to run due to the repression from Indian army.
 
Just goes to show goverment of India knows Kashmiris want nothing to do with them. That's why they persist with massive number of troops.

Don't need videos to show that. It's a fact. Been that way for decades. I read online that there will be further increase in the troops. As long as it's not violent with casualties, it's fine for India.
 
Try this from BBC...
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">WATCH: Despite government saying reports of protests in Saura were completely fabricated, see exclusive BBC footage here for the truth. Thousands marched, police fired on protesters, dozens injured <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Kashmir?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Kashmir</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BBCUrdu?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BBCUrdu</a> <a href="https://t.co/J0S72XuK1W">pic.twitter.com/J0S72XuK1W</a></p>— Nicola Careem (@NicolaCareem) <a href="https://twitter.com/NicolaCareem/status/1160107113890426880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 10, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Its good to see em protest,Coz most posts also made us believe for every 10 Kashmiri there is one Indian soldier.
 
And you the delusional one. Stop imagining stuff. This is not a 3rd grade Bollywood movie. This is not 1990s and this is not Kashmiris that are dictating the terms here by asking Kashmiri hindu men to leave but let the women remain. Now when you do dumb stuff like that, people will remember and dish it out. You can't act like a victim now.. You gotto take the rhetoric and slap your face for doing that crap in 90s to hindus in a hindu majority country. But don't worry, its all empty rhetoric. People don't have time for this crap.

Haha.. Getting sensitive when it comes to ur own home and urself? Whatever.... Just tell us would you do the same as you preach...
 
Peaceful?

They are having to run due to the repression from Indian army.

People dying or getting blinded is violent. Running is being dispersed. Army is not there to win minds and hearts. That ship has sailed decades ago. Everybody is practical and know what the consequences are.
 
The first one they are not protesting peacefully, second one they are and look who is interfering in that?

Why do u hink it's not a peaceful protest? I don't see any stone pelting or guns being brandished.
 
Haha.. Getting sensitive when it comes to ur own home and urself? Whatever.... Just tell us would you do the same as you preach...

Not sensitive. It's practical. I won't fight them with a stick. I want to be alive and want to protect myself and my family by not doing stupid stuff. The chances of people hurting my family are more if I'm dead. I will show that I'm ready to kill if anyone touches my family and will be prepared for that. However I won't put myself in a position to be killed. This is not a jungle raj as in 90s.
 
Not sensitive. It's practical. I won't fight them with a stick. I want to be alive and want to protect myself and my family by not doing stupid stuff. The chances of people hurting my family are more if I'm dead. I will show that I'm ready to kill if anyone touches my family and will be prepared for that. However I won't put myself in a position to be killed. This is not a jungle raj as in 90s.

And when they touch your family, then ?
 
I already gave my answer in the earlier post. No one will be spared.

So you see everybody has a boiling point. Suppose there is a neighbour who tells you the same that you are lecturing Kashmiries here. It would be disgusting for you. You ll take revenge no matter what. So next time dont shove your disgusting views down our throats and dont lecture should Kashmiries opt for a life or death.

Indians and you are posing as if what is going on right now is something for the betterment of Kashmiries. How should the behave and what not. Its simple you dont adhere to their views and though process and its fine but you should remember the people living in Kashmir. They are the ones whose opinion matter and they are the ones that should decide how they want to live.
 
Hindutva is tarnishing your religion but like many other Hindus you are putting your nationalist feelings above respecting your religion. Anyway lets stick to the topic.

Do you agree with live rounds directed at men, women and children?

What are the chances that 100s of millions of Indians who voted for Modi - twice - do not understand Hindutva but you do ?

Think logically and respond
 
So you see everybody has a boiling point. Suppose there is a neighbour who tells you the same that you are lecturing Kashmiries here. It would be disgusting for you. You ll take revenge no matter what. So next time dont shove your disgusting views down our throats and dont lecture should Kashmiries opt for a life or death.

Indians and you are posing as if what is going on right now is something for the betterment of Kashmiries. How should the behave and what not. Its simple you dont adhere to their views and though process and its fine but you should remember the people living in Kashmir. They are the ones whose opinion matter and they are the ones that should decide how they want to live.

Now you are being very emotional and naive. I bet what you are looking for is a support group. I'm providing my views and if comfort is what you seek, there are other posters. Irony is an onion. It has many layers and once you peel one by one you get to the truth and that's called reality. You cry for people who die and get hurt. I say they are going into harm's Way and are seeking death. Common sense dictates that you can't fight an army with stones and a few guns. Death has been romanticized centuries ago because it was the need of the hour back then. There is no glory in death now and Serves no purpose. However, if you want to romaticize it go all the way instead of twisting yourself into irony. So if somebody goes blind or die then don't play victim. Celebrate it because that's what you are seeking with your actions. If people are being tear gassed or pellet gunned or killed, celebrate with a block party. Or join the rest of the people who are realistic and come back to earth.
 
What are the chances that 100s of millions of Indians who voted for Modi - twice - do not understand Hindutva but you do ?

Think logically and respond

People don't understand hindutva. It's more about nationalism than religion. Sikhs are a minority and they are respected. Parsis are one of the most affluent people in India. Heck, even god awful Bollywood has Muslim heroes revered by millions. Kashmir is about national interests for both India and Pakistan. Religious color is added to capture the imagination of the lowest common denominator. Unfortunately it worked because that's what majority of the people are - mob that's the lowest common deniminator
 
Inside Kashmir's lockdown: 'Even I will pick up a gun'

Indian-administered Kashmir has been under an unprecedented lockdown since Monday, when India revoked a special constitutional status dating back nearly 70 years. The BBC's Geeta Pandey travelled for two days around the region, where a bitter sense of betrayal threatens to fuel fresh conflict.

In the heart of Srinagar city, Khanyar is an area notorious for anti-India protests. To get here during what amounts to a virtual 24-hour curfew, we pass through half a dozen roadblocks.

As we come across yet another barricade, I get out of my car to take some photos. A few men emerge from a laneway to complain about living under what to many feels like a siege. "This is extreme thuggery on the government's part," says an elderly member of the group.

The paramilitary police try to hustle us away but the man wants to be heard. "You lock us up during the day. You lock us up at night," he shouts angrily, wagging his finger. The policeman says there's a curfew in place and that they must go inside immediately. But the diminutive old man stands his ground and challenges him again.

At that point, I'm ordered to leave. But before I can, a young man, carrying his toddler son in his arms, tells me he is ready to pick up a gun to fight India.

"This is my only son. He's too small now, but I will prepare him to pick up a gun too," he says. He's so angry that he doesn't even care that he's saying all this within earshot of the policeman standing near us.

Across the Muslim-majority Kashmir valley, I meet men who tell me they no longer want to live life in fear of the security forces. An insurgency has been taking place here for 30 years, but what residents call a "dictatorial order" from far-away Delhi has pushed people who never supported separatism into a corner.

They say it will have serious consequences for both Kashmir and India.

This is very much the dominant sentiment everywhere I go - anger mixed with fear and worry, and a fierce determination to resist the central government's move.

Srinagar - the summer capital of Jammu and Kashmir - has been under a virtual lockdown since Monday morning and the city resembles a ghost town. Shops, schools, colleges and offices are all shut and there is no public transport on the roads.

Thousands of gun-wielding troops patrol deserted streets that are barricaded with coils of razor wire, and residents remain locked up inside their homes.

For nearly a week now, two of the former state chief ministers have been in detention while a third, who is currently an MP from the state, is under house arrest. Hundreds of others, including activists, business leaders and professors, have also been detained and are being held in makeshift prisons.

Rizwan Malik says Kashmir "now feels like a jail, a big open-air jail".

He flew from Delhi to Srinagar less than 48 hours after Home Minister Amit Shah laid out his plans for Kashmir in the parliament on Monday.

He said he had last spoken to his parents on Sunday night, a few hours before the government shut down all communications, including the internet. There was a total information blackout, and because he couldn't reach any of his friends or relatives either, he decided to return home.

"It's the first time in my life that we had no way of communicating with anyone. Never before have I seen anything like this," he told me at his parents' home in Srinagar.

Mr Malik is furious that India has revoked Kashmir's special status - which gave it a significant degree of autonomy and underpinned the region's relationship with the rest of India for decades - without consulting the state's people.

He's not someone who believes in separatism, or has ever gone out and thrown stones at soldiers in protest; he's a 25-year-old aspirational young man studying to be an accountant in Delhi. He says he has long believed in the idea of India because he is sold on the story of its economic success.

"If India wants us to believe that it's a democracy, they are fooling themselves. Kashmir has long had an uneasy relationship with India [but] our special status was the bridge that joined the two. By scrapping it, they have taken away our identity. This is unacceptable to any Kashmiri," he says.

When the siege is lifted and protesters are able to take to the streets, Mr Malik predicts that every Kashmiri will join them: "It was said that in every family one brother is with the separatists and the other is with the [Indian] mainstream. Now the Indian government has united the two."

His sister Rukhsar Rashid, a 20-year-old architecture student at Kashmir University, says when she heard the home minister's speech on TV, her hands began to shake and her mother, sitting next to her, began to cry.

"She was saying death would be better than this," says Ms Rashid. "I keep waking up with panic attacks. My grandparents who live in the city's Batmaloo area say it has turned into Afghanistan."

India had been building up to its big move on the part of Kashmir it controls for some time. The government first announced late last month it was sending more than 35,000 additional troops to the region, an area that's already the most militarised in the world because it is disputed between nuclear-armed India and Pakistan

Last week, the annual Hindu pilgrimage to the Amarnath cave shrine was called off abruptly as the authorities warned of a terror threat. Then, hotels and houseboats along the picturesque Dal Lake were ordered shut and tourists asked to leave.

Everyone in Kashmir by then knew something was afoot, but of the dozens of people I spoke to, no-one expected Delhi would go this far and unilaterally revoke part of the constitution.

The communications blackout means reliable information is hard to come by, and news of what's going on spreads by word of mouth. Despite the lockdown, we hear daily reports of protesters pelting security forces with stones in Srinagar and elsewhere. We hear a protester drowned when he was chased by troops and jumped in a river. Several people are believed to be injured and in hospital.

But the Indian government has been trying to show that all's well in Kashmir.

On Wednesday, TV channels showed National Security Advisor Ajit Doval lunching with a group of men on the streets of Shopian, a town that's described in the Indian press as "a hotbed of militancy". It was an attempt to tell the world that there's popular support for the government's move even in the most difficult of areas and that peace and calm prevails.

But Kashmiris have dismissed it as a stunt. "If people are happy, then why do they need the curfew? Why is there a communication shutdown?" asks Rizwan Malik.

The same question is repeated in every part of Srinagar - in homes, on the streets, in the sensitive old city areas that the locals call "downtown", and in the southern district of Pulwama, home to the militant who carried out the audacious suicide bombing targeting the security forces in February that brought India and Pakistan close to war.

As I drive through the region, men hanging out in groups by the roadside or in moving vehicles flag down my car to talk to me. They say Kashmiri voices are being suppressed, and they are desperate to be heard. They tell me how angry they are and issue dire warnings of impending bloodshed.

"Kashmir is under siege at the moment. The moment it's lifted, trouble will start," says Zahid Hussain Dar, a lawyer living in Pulwama. "Once the political and separatist leaders are freed from detention or house arrest, there will be calls for protests and people will come out."

Some in the Indian press have reported that since there have been no major protests in Kashmir valley so far, it means people have accepted the government's decision.

But the Kashmir I see is seething. I've been visiting the region regularly for over 20 years to report on the long-running insurgency against Indian rule, but the sort of anger and resentment that is being expressed now is unprecedented.

Most people here say they will settle for nothing less than the government rescinding its order and restoring Kashmir's special status.

But Prime Minister Narendra Modi's government is not known for rolling back decisions and this underpins fears in the valley that the government will come down heavily on those who resist.

On Thursday, Mr Modi defended his controversial decision, saying it was "the beginning of a new era" and promising employment opportunities and development for Kashmir.

Yet not many here are ready to back down. And it does not augur well for either Kashmiris or India.

Muskaan Lateef, a high school student, describes the current situation as "the calm before the storm".

"It's like the oceans are quiet, but the tsunami is about to hit the shore."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-49294301
 
What are the chances that 100s of millions of Indians who voted for Modi - twice - do not understand Hindutva but you do ?

Think logically and respond

There's a very big chance. Ask 10 Hindus to describe the pillars of their religion, and we will see 10 different answers.
 
People don't understand hindutva. It's more about nationalism than religion. Sikhs are a minority and they are respected. Parsis are one of the most affluent people in India. Heck, even god awful Bollywood has Muslim heroes revered by millions. Kashmir is about national interests for both India and Pakistan. Religious color is added to capture the imagination of the lowest common denominator. Unfortunately it worked because that's what majority of the people are - mob that's the lowest common deniminator

But nobody subscribes to an ideology if its detrimental to their own interests. This is what [MENTION=43583]KingKhanWC[/MENTION] is alluding to by suggesting that millions of Indians don't know what they have signed up for.
 
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What are the chances that 100s of millions of Indians who voted for Modi - twice - do not understand Hindutva but you do ?

Think logically and respond

Very high. Those same Indians believed Modi when he mentioned radar, clouds, emails, digital camera etc.
 
I had to share this video as some of the atrocities being mentioned in here really makes your heart sad and you feel so powerless.

Watch fro 33:30 onwards
 
Try this from BBC...
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">WATCH: Despite government saying reports of protests in Saura were completely fabricated, see exclusive BBC footage here for the truth. Thousands marched, police fired on protesters, dozens injured <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Kashmir?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Kashmir</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/BBCUrdu?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#BBCUrdu</a> <a href="https://t.co/J0S72XuK1W">pic.twitter.com/J0S72XuK1W</a></p>— Nicola Careem (@NicolaCareem) <a href="https://twitter.com/NicolaCareem/status/1160107113890426880?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 10, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


Maybe next time she posts a clip, she will add the necessary context instead of waiting until several indian journalists repeatedly ask her to do so.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Absolutely. I am making no judgement at all about whether the protest were peaceful or not. We have shown extensively in our coverage protesters throwing rocks. This person has an agenda, I don’t.</p>— Nicola Careem (@NicolaCareem) <a href="https://twitter.com/NicolaCareem/status/1160233680150945799?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 10, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Maybe next time she posts a clip, she will add the necessary context instead of waiting until several indian journalists repeatedly ask her to do so.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Absolutely. I am making no judgement at all about whether the protest were peaceful or not. We have shown extensively in our coverage protesters throwing rocks. This person has an agenda, I don’t.</p>— Nicola Careem (@NicolaCareem) <a href="https://twitter.com/NicolaCareem/status/1160233680150945799?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 10, 2019</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

So first we were told by indians 'video is fake and from PoK' now it's changed to 'It was in IoK but wasn't a peaceful protest'

Well done and good night
 
Terrorists are banned globally. You are promoting them via your post.

If freedom fighters are terrorists then you’re a descendant of terrorists, if your ancestors were alive today then probably they wouldn’t appreciate being called terrorist by their unappreciated ascendant.
 
If freedom fighters are terrorists then you’re a descendant of terrorists, if your ancestors were alive today then probably they wouldn’t appreciate being called terrorist by their unappreciated ascendant.

Freedom fighters can be terrorists depending on their methods. There were some freedom fighters who were terrorists. The first known was Khudiram Bose who was a terrorist freedom fighter celebrated in Bengal.
 
Now you are being very emotional and naive. I bet what you are looking for is a support group. I'm providing my views and if comfort is what you seek, there are other posters. Irony is an onion. It has many layers and once you peel one by one you get to the truth and that's called reality. You cry for people who die and get hurt. I say they are going into harm's Way and are seeking death. Common sense dictates that you can't fight an army with stones and a few guns. Death has been romanticized centuries ago because it was the need of the hour back then. There is no glory in death now and Serves no purpose. However, if you want to romaticize it go all the way instead of twisting yourself into irony. So if somebody goes blind or die then don't play victim. Celebrate it because that's what you are seeking with your actions. If people are being tear gassed or pellet gunned or killed, celebrate with a block party. Or join the rest of the people who are realistic and come back to earth.

Well you accepted that you ll fight back at one point no matter what the consequence is. I guess you should remove the layers of bigotry from your own self to get to know how un realistic you seem to be for people who are actually living in Kashmir. You wany to be realistic ? Reality is your opinion wont change anything here. Be realistic and spare this forum from your lectures or dont preach what you cant do your self.

You said no one will be spared if they dare touching your family. How realistic does it sound ?
 
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A tiny proportion of the population and from what I’ve read the Muslim Kashmiri’s would be happy to have them back in a sovereign Kashmir.

lol So because the Pandits were a tiny population, it is ok to kill, rape and drive them out of their homes :))..


Karma, Karma, Karma....
 
lol So because the Pandits were a tiny population, it is ok to kill, rape and drive them out of their homes :))..


Karma, Karma, Karma....

NO

You are an extremely dangerous person.
Quoting one thing out of context to peddle fake news.

I shouldn’t have to explain myself here and this is not for you but other folk on PP who may believe this...

Time of Partition Muslim population was close to 70pct.
Division was on the basis that Muslim majority states would join Pakistan.

Indians talk about change of demographics and my point re Hindu Pandits was that the atrocity that occurred to them in the 90’s did not change the demographics.
 
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