India's delusions of dominance in South Asia are exposed

[arunp]

Perhaps you could provide some insight into why India, as the world’s 5th largest economy, experienced a 29% outdoor deflation rate in 2020?

Do you mean defecation by any chance ?

 

[HalBass9]

Keep in mind you are speaking to both the Indian government and BCCI spokespersons here.

I realized that quite some time ago, but it’s rather amusing to let others think they are the ones being entertained at someone else’s expense, when in reality, it’s others who are enjoying watching them unravel like a child who didn’t get the toy they wanted.

 

[Itachi]

You can reply to the poster who asked a question in this thread. Personal insults and remarks will do no good to anyone.

Keep chat healthy.

India failed to win gold and that is truth. Reasons could be many. Phogat could have won gold but he missed the weight mark. One of the contestant was deported.

Aren't you yourself off topic though here?

What "India failed to win gold" has anything to do with this thread?

 

[arunp]

So, please, sir, do enlighten us with your expert views as an Indian, particularly since you seem to have contradicted yourself in the same discussion. As someone who believes India is thriving in the region because it is a Hindu Rashtra, your clarity would undoubtedly benefit those of us who, as you suggest, lack a basic understanding of global dynamics.

Thank you.

Ohh... Even I agree with @Romali_rotti. I would have attempted to enlighten you, if I felt it would have helped.

 

[HalBass9]

This sentence just proves "Better to Remain Silent and Be Thought a Fool than to Speak and Remove All Doubt".
Any person with serious knowledge of Sino-Indian history will be laugh at the above statement and point at Doklam, Pangon Tso and Arunachal Pradesh.

I don’t believe anyone has denied past conflicts, but it’s presumptuous to assume that China’s naval bases are specifically intended to counter India. Most analysts, unless they are Indian, would not support that assessment. China and India are unlikely to engage in a full-scale war, nor does India possess a navy capable of countering China.

 

[BouncerGuy]

Aren't you yourself off topic though here?

What "India failed to win gold" has anything to do with this thread?

Actually, you are right. I mixed 2 threads here. India's dominance and its delusions should be the topic we should be talking about.

That gold one is another topic that has a lot of irrelevant stuff just like this one.

 

[arunp]

I don’t believe anyone has denied past conflicts, but it’s presumptuous to assume that China’s naval bases are specifically intended to counter India. Most analysts, unless they are Indian, would not support that assessment. China and India are unlikely to engage in a full-scale war, nor does India possess a navy capable of countering China.

You just said why do Indians view Sino-indian relationship as zero-sum game.
First of all they don't, hence continuing trade.
They are weary of China, the same way Philipines, Taiwan, Korea and Vietnam are.

 

[HalBass9]

Ohh... Even I agree with @Romali_rotti I would have attempted to enlighten you, if I felt it would have helped.

Perhaps my disagreement with your narrative is the issue here?

It’s intriguing to hear that Rotti Sahib believes India’s economic success is attributed to it being a Hindu Rashtra.

What an insightful perspective.

 

[HalBass9]

You just said why do Indians view Sino-indian relationship as zero-sum game.
First of all they don't, hence continuing trade.
They are weary of China, the same way Philipines, Taiwan, Korea and Vietnam are.

Exactly, why do some Indians portray the India-China conflict as a zero-sum game when it clearly isn’t?

 

[arunp]

Perhaps my disagreement with your narrative is the issue here?

It’s intriguing to hear that Rotti Sahib believes India’s economic success is attributed to it being a Hindu Rashtra.

What an insightful perspective.

I disagree with @Romali_rotti in the statement that india is a hindu rashtra. it still has what @rpant_gabba has delightfully named Nehru/Gandhi virus. But I agree with his gist, a lot of aspects of Hinduism are the reason for India's success.

 

[Devadwal]

That is how it typically unfolds in most countries that once faced widespread open defecation—improvements in the economy generally lead to greater accessibility to indoor toilets. However, despite being the 5th largest economy in the world, India's 29% rate of open defecation in 2020 is still deeply concerning.

Why do you believe this disparity persists?

Pakistan, which lags far behind India's progress, had a rate of 7% in 2020. But Indians should not compare their situation with Pakistan's, given India's standing as the 5th largest economy.

There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, and learning from failure.

 

[HalBass9]

Ohh right so China goes all the way to Sri Lanka to spy on American celebrities

Wow I had no idea.

Thanks bro, I am learning something new everyday

I can’t continue to entertain you if you respond in such a manner.

At least try to pretend you’re enjoying it and not miss the sarcasm.

 

[arunp]

Exactly, why do some Indians portray the India-China conflict as a zero-sum game when it clearly isn’t?

because China is not a reliable partner and Chinese entry to Indian market can decimate Indian manufacturing. USA has faulted in that aspect, GoI is being smart and learning from it.

 

[HalBass9]

There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, and learning from failure.

Your response is irrelevant

The question was, why did India have a 29% open defecation rate in 2020 as the fifth-largest economy?

 

[arunp]

because China is not a reliable partner and Chinese entry to Indian market can decimate Indian manufacturing. USA has faulted in that aspect, GoI is being smart and learning from it.

As much as I love India, I accept India has some serious administrative and structural flaws, that China does not have. Either on the account of it being better administered or it not being a democracy.
Indian laws and corruption do not provide a level playing field to Indian businesses, so GoI has to introduce tariffs where it does not hurt India to encourage local manufacturers.
A case in point Ganesh's being manufactured in China for Ganesh Chaturthi.

 

[HalBass9]

I disagree with @Romali_rotti in the statement that india is a hindu rashtra. it still has what @rpant_gabba has delightfully named Nehru/Gandhi virus. But I agree with his gist, a lot of aspects of Hinduism are the reason for India's success.

UAE more successful because it is predominantly Muslim country ?

 

[Romali_rotti]

Perhaps you could provide some insight into why India, as the world’s 5th largest economy, experienced a 29% outdoor deflation rate in 2020?

I have no idea bro, you are the one who brought up the 5th largest economy statement.

I was thinking it was quite an achievement considering the country with the 5th largest economy was been isolated by its neighbors'

 

[arunp]

UAE more successful because it is predominantly Muslim country ?

I do not consider UAE successful. But you can definitely attribute some of the success of USA to what is called as protestant work ethic.

 

[HalBass9]

I do not consider UAE successful. But you can definitely attribute some of the success of USA to what is called as protestant work ethic.

They leverage their natural resources.

Countless foreign companies are operating in that region.

Is it because it’s predominantly a Muslim country ?

 

[arunp]

Countless foreign companies are operating in that region.

Not sure why that makes a country successful.
I am not very familiar with UAE and cannot comment on it. My understanding is the region does not innovate or produce. it just happened to be sitting on a wealthy resource which the world in transition requires, until it moves to renewable/clean energy completely. But just because a lot of foreign companies operate there, does not make a country successful IMO atleast.
OTOH Israel is a world leader in tech, literature and arts and it does have any natural resources that it can leverage. A lot of it because Judaism plays a huge part in their culture.

 

[arunp]

Not sure why that makes a country successful.
I am not very familiar with UAE and cannot comment on it. My understanding is the region does not innovate or produce. it just happened to be sitting on a wealthy resource which the world in transition requires, until it moves to renewable/clean energy completely. But just because a lot of foreign companies operate there, does not make a country successful IMO atleast.
OTOH Israel is a world leader in tech, literature and arts and it does have any natural resources that it can leverage. A lot of it because Judaism plays a huge part in their culture.

USA is a world leader in innovation, tech and science. It did not have to sell the carbons it was sitting on top of, to achieve it. I believe Protestant work ethic played a huge part.

 

[HalBass9]

Not sure why that makes a country successful.
I am not very familiar with UAE and cannot comment on it. My understanding is the region does not innovate or produce. it just happened to be sitting on a wealthy resource which the world in transition requires, until it moves to renewable/clean energy completely. But just because a lot of foreign companies operate there, does not make a country successful IMO atleast.
OTOH Israel is a world leader in tech, literature and arts and it does have any natural resources that it can leverage. A lot of it because Judaism plays a huge part in their culture.

If and when the UAE begins to innovate, will it be attributed to the fact that it is a Muslim country?

Similarly, when Muslim scientists in the past were pioneering scientific discoveries that no one else had explored, was it because they were Muslim?

 

[Romali_rotti]

As much as I love India, I accept India has some serious administrative and structural flaws, that China does not have. Either on the account of it being better administered or it not being a democracy.
Indian laws and corruption do not provide a level playing field to Indian businesses, so GoI has to introduce tariffs where it does not hurt India to encourage local manufacturers.
A case in point Ganesh's being manufactured in China for Ganesh Chaturthi.

India is a chaotic place, it is very unorganized with religious differences, freedom of speech and democracy which is not possible in China.

Indians are very divided, we have the communists, nationalists, pseudo seculars, seculars, atheists, Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Jains, Sikhs and whatever else all with conflicting views. It is impossible to get all Indians under 1 umbrella, here in lies the advantage which the Chinese will always have over Indians.

I personally do not see India ever getting to China's level, the goal should not be to get to China's level forget about eclipsing them, the focus should be to be become a successful country; keep getting better in science & tech, improve infrastructure, bring down poverty, build up the forex reserves, be politically stable this is most important (we have seen what has happened in India's neighborhood, one neighbor has not had a PM that has completed a full term since their independence).

Chinese rule with an iron fist, they will crush any uprising, they don't have democracy or religious freedom etc in comparison to India so China will always have an easier path ahead.

 

[Romali_rotti]

I disagree with @Romali_rotti in the statement that india is a hindu rashtra. it still has what @rpant_gabba has delightfully named Nehru/Gandhi virus. But I agree with his gist, a lot of aspects of Hinduism are the reason for India's success.

Never said India was a Hindu rastra.

You should check what I posted...

I said India was successful because it was a Hindu majority..

 

[rpant_gabba]

USA is a world leader in innovation, tech and science. It did not have to sell the carbons it was sitting on top of, to achieve it. I believe Protestant work ethic played a huge part.

good thing it is a belief.... protestant work ethic? does that even mean?

 

[BouncerGuy]

Please stay on topic and not turn it into a religious debate.

 

[Romali_rotti]

No, sir, please don’t apologize. I’m sorry if I gave the impression that I was upset by your suggestion that India’s success is due to it being a Hindu Rashtra/Hindu majority.

If I felt I offended someone then I will apologize, that is all.

I’m simply trying to understand how and why that might be the case.

You need to do your research and find out for yourself bro, I am sure you can do it, I have full faith in you.

 

[Itachi]

"developed" is a very vague term.

Mostly people attribute to the framework of western countries.

Slowly the reference frame has been shifting to China.

One needs to understand that, "developed" doesn't come out of nowhere. One needs to sacrifice "something" to achieve "something".

For many people, the sacrifice will be worth the outcome, for others it may not be.

Due to industrialosation, in many parts of the world, countries aggressively forwarded in the path of "developed" while at the same time, farmers, manual labours were committing suicide due to lack of fulfilling subsistence needs. These "developments" have the smell of blood along with all other benefits that it brings.

For some, it is acceptable, for others it may not be.

 

[Cpt. Rishwat]

Never said India was a Hindu rastra.

You should check what I posted...

I said India was successful because it was a Hindu majority..

That was probably because the Hindu majority were less focused on creating a hindu rashtra for the past century and religion took a back seat. Since the 1990s and the advent of hindu rashtra political parties like the BJP, the momentum is more likely going in the other more regressive direction.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

That was probably because the Hindu majority were less focused on creating a hindu rashtra for the past century and religion took a back seat. Since the 1990s and the advent of hindu rashtra political parties like the BJP, the momentum is more likely going in the other more regressive direction.

So, let me get your point here:
India defaulted on its loans in 1991 and economic recovery started only after that. Soooo, Indian economy was collapsing when religion took a back seat and started growing with the rise of "Hindu Rashtra" parties like the BJP. A trend of over 3 decades!
BJP cannot get a better argument in its favor.

 

[RexRex]

So, let me get your point here:
India defaulted on its loans in 1991 and economic recovery started only after that. Soooo, Indian economy was collapsing when religion took a back seat and started growing with the rise of "Hindu Rashtra" parties like the BJP. A trend of over 3 decades!
BJP cannot get a better argument in its favor.

Plaudits for the economic rise go to congressi Manmohan Singh but India has become an illiberal democracy in the last decade under BJP.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

Plaudits for the economic rise go to congressi Manmohan Singh but India has become an illiberal democracy in the last decade under BJP.

I am just taking the sweeping statement by THE Captain at face value and what it can imply! The dates are as mentioned by Captain, which says 90s not last decade

 

[RexRex]

I am just taking the sweeping statement by THE Captain at face value and what it can imply! The dates are as mentioned by Captain, which says 90s not last decade

The seeds of discord was sowed in the 90s with the fall of Babri Masjid.

 

[Aang_The_last_airbender]

The seeds of discord was sowed in the 90s with the fall of Babri Masjid.

Just going by Kaptaan's statement sir !

 

[arunp]

good thing it is a belief.... protestant work ethic? does that even mean?

These are few of the many sources where they have discussed "protestant work ethic".

 

[arunp]

So, let me get your point here:
India defaulted on its loans in 1991 and economic recovery started only after that. Soooo, Indian economy was collapsing when religion took a back seat and started growing with the rise of "Hindu Rashtra" parties like the BJP. A trend of over 3 decades!
BJP cannot get a better argument in its favor.

You are correct. There were so many uneducated takes on this thread, I was wondering if I should reply or not

 

[arunp]

Never said India was a Hindu rastra.

You should check what I posted...

I said India was successful because it was a Hindu majority..

I stand corrected. I should have read better, I just believed what @HalBass9 mentioned.
In that case, I agree with you.

 

[arunp]

If and when the UAE begins to innovate, will it be attributed to the fact that it is a Muslim country?

it is hypothetical and cannot be answered right now. innovation requires irreverance. Only societies that provide irreverance can succeed. When religion straight jackets a society into thinking a given book is divine and anything outside of the book is false, it in my opinion does not provide a good setup for innovation.

 

[rpant_gabba]

These are few of the many sources where they have discussed "protestant work ethic".

Gonna take lot more than that. think there was more evidence for WMD in Iraq than there is for this unique protestant work ethic

 

[rpant_gabba]

The seeds of discord was sowed in the 90s with the fall of Babri Masjid.

you mean like the bombing by islamic thugs in bombay, coimbatore etc etc and the attempted genocide of and consequent exodus of Kashmiri hindus thanks to pak sponsored terrorists?

 

[RexRex]

you mean like the bombing by thugs in bombay, coimbatore etc etc and the attempted genocide of and consequent exodus of Kashmiri hindus thanks to pak sponsored terrorists?

Demolition of the Babri Masjid was by a religious extremist indian political party. Bombings and exodus (aided by Pak) were done by religious extremist miscreants/thugs.

Can you see the difference between the two ?

 

[HalBass9]

it is hypothetical and cannot be answered right now. innovation requires irreverance. Only societies that provide irreverance can succeed. When religion straight jackets a society into thinking a given book is divine and anything outside of the book is false, it in my opinion does not provide a good setup for innovation.

You consistently deflect the discussion by introducing irrelevant opinions and passing judgment rooted in inherited biases against a particular religion.

Let us reconsider the scenario, even if hypothetical, given that you and others with Hindutva beliefs attribute India’s economic success to religious factors, rather than to investments in education, aside from those driven by foreign companies and factories operating within India.

If the UAE or any Muslim-majority country were to begin innovating, would you then argue that their success is intrinsically tied to Islam?

 

[HalBass9]

I stand corrected. I should have read better, I just believed what @HalBass9 mentioned.
In that case, I agree with you.

For India to be Hindu rashtra India has to be Hindu majority.

Are we not having this discussion in English ?

 

[rpant_gabba]

Demolition of the Babri Masjid was by a religious extremist indian political party. Bombings and exodus (aided by Pak) were done by religious extremist miscreants/thugs.

Can you see the difference between the two ?

both done in the name of religious superiority and both groups justify it quoting historical context.

do you see the commonality now?

The seeds of babri destruction were laid by Nehruvian idiocy of creating separate laws for different religions

 

[rpant_gabba]

it is hypothetical and cannot be answered right now. innovation requires irreverance. Only societies that provide irreverance can succeed. When religion straight jackets a society into thinking a given book is divine and anything outside of the book is false, it in my opinion does not provide a good setup for innovation.

so its becos of Protestant teachings america can't innovate anymore?

 

[HalBass9]

it is hypothetical and cannot be answered right now. innovation requires irreverance. Only societies that provide irreverance can succeed. When religion straight jackets a society into thinking a given book is divine and anything outside of the book is false, it in my opinion does not provide a good setup for innovation.

While you are at it.

Can you please enlighten us that any Muslim innovation done by Muslims were secretly Hindu or Christian or Jews or Atheist because according to your opinion Muslims aren’t capable of innovation.

Thank you !

 

[Red-Indian]

You consistently deflect the discussion by introducing irrelevant opinions and passing judgment rooted in inherited biases against a particular religion.

Let us reconsider the scenario, even if hypothetical, given that you and others with Hindutva beliefs attribute India’s economic success to religious factors, rather than to investments in education, aside from those driven by foreign companies and factories operating within India.

If the UAE or any Muslim-majority country were to begin innovating, would you then argue that their success is intrinsically tied to Islam?

There is no particular religion linked to innovation and Islam like many other religions had a time when it helped drive (or at least did not hinder) innovation.

The current version of Islam prevalent in most Muslim countries though does seem to have ossified and is hindering innovation and free thought.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Yeah will have multiple puppets of China - pak ban, maybe burma... nothing new. Previously American puppets now Chinese puppets.

You can believe that if you want but the fact is they never became Modi puppets despite best efforts of India.

Modi make India look like a care home for elderly patients with the way he accepted Hasina Bibi.

 

[HalBass9]

There is no particular religion linked to innovation and Islam like many other religions had a time when it helped drive (or at least did not hinder) innovation.

The current version of Islam prevalent in most Muslim countries though does seem to have ossified and is hindering innovation and free thought.

That is a separate discussion, and we can certainly explore why innovation may be hindered in Muslim-majority countries. However, before delving into that, it is crucial to address why proponents of Hindutva hold such unfounded beliefs.

When individuals are indoctrinated with these ideas, do they not critically evaluate them before propagating such baseless claims? One would expect a group that prides itself on innovation to at least conduct a trial run before echoing indoctrinated statements.

 

[Red-Indian]

There is no particular religion linked to innovation and Islam like many other religions had a time when it helped drive (or at least did not hinder) innovation.

The current version of Islam prevalent in most Muslim countries though does seem to have ossified and is hindering innovation and free thought.

To elaborate, the more a religion is willing to tolerate free thought, debate and even heretical views, the more it creates space for the mavericks who drive innovation.

I could claim an atheistic society is probably best placed to facilitate these weirdos but there's not enough evidence to back it up so I won't.

Islam like a lot of the conservative religion is tending towards uniformity, tradition and sticking to the tried and tested which in my opinion snuffs out the non-conformists needed for innovative thinking.

 

[HalBass9]

To elaborate, the more a religion is willing to tolerate free thought, debate and even heretical views, the more it creates space for the mavericks who drive innovation.

I could claim an atheistic society is probably best placed to facilitate these weirdos but there's not enough evidence to back it up so I won't.

Islam like a lot of the conservative religion is tending towards uniformity, tradition and sticking to the tried and tested which in my opinion snuffs out the non-conformists needed for innovative thinking.

I respectfully disagree, but let’s stay on topic.

Islam does not inhibit innovation or free thinking.

However, let’s not stray from the core issue. The question remains: if and when a Muslim-majority country achieves significant innovation, would it be attributed solely to its Islamic identity?

 

[DeadlyVenom]

I respectfully disagree, but let’s stay on topic.

Islam does not inhibit innovation or free thinking.

However, let’s not stray from the core issue. The question remains: if and when a Muslim-majority country achieves significant innovation, would it be attributed solely to its Islamic identity?

Actually I think he has a point. He is usually spot on about these things.

In this case during the Islamic golden era free speech, debate and pushing the boundaries was encouraged.

At some points Muslims laid back and closed the door on debate in religion. Innovation in other fields soon stopped.

 

[Red-Indian]

That is a separate discussion, and we can certainly explore why innovation may be hindered in Muslim-majority countries. However, before delving into that, it is crucial to address why proponents of Hindutva hold such unfounded beliefs.

When individuals are indoctrinated with these ideas, do they not critically evaluate them before propagating such baseless claims? One would expect a group that prides itself on innovation to at least conduct a trial run before echoing indoctrinated statements.

I don't think it's critical in the least and is very easily explained. There are guys in every religion, community and political beliefs system who only view the world through deeply tinted glasses. You're talking to the Hindutva version of those guys.

You only choose to engage with those guys and they only choose to engage with guys like you. Both of you feed off each other's confirmatory biases.

 

[HalBass9]

Actually I think he has a point. He is usually spot on about these things.

In this case during the Islamic golden era free speech, debate and pushing the boundaries was encouraged.

At some points Muslims laid back and closed the door on debate in religion. Innovation in other fields soon stopped.

I agree with his points on free speech and boundaries, which Islam also encourages. I also acknowledge that many Muslim-majority countries have now restricted religious debate, but this is not a reflection of Islam itself.

 

[Red-Indian]

Actually I think he has a point. He is usually spot on about these things.

In this case during the Islamic golden era free speech, debate and pushing the boundaries was encouraged.

At some points Muslims laid back and closed the door on debate in religion. Innovation in other fields soon stopped.

I agree a 100%. The reason I didn't make a claim for atheist society fostering innovation is because we've seen plenty of atheist countries like the old Soviet Union actually smothering innovation.

In the end, any belief system or culture that is willing to tolerate a lot of questioning and to be honest, a lot of useless nonsense will foster innovation.

 

[HalBass9]

I don't think it's critical in the least and is very easily explained. There are guys in every religion, community and political beliefs system who only view the world through deeply tinted glasses. You're talking to the Hindutva version of those guys.

You only choose to engage with those guys and they only choose to engage with guys like you. Both of you feed off each other's confirmatory biases.

You seem to be upset because I’m not engaging you?

Our opinions are largely aligned, and I agree with much of what you’ve said. If you want me to acknowledge your views, I can do that. However, this forum is overrun with Hindutva extremists, and when many of them genuinely believe what they express, it becomes essential to understand their reasoning—and they should be countered, if only for the sake of clarity and, perhaps, some amusement.

 

[nuttyprof]

so its becos of Protestant teachings america can't innovate anymore?

I think USA is one of the most innovative countries in the world.
Can we agree to disagree while we are at it. Not sure why so aggro at me buddy. I respect your opinions . Happy to engage with you on discord etc

 

[nuttyprof]

I agree with his points on free speech and boundaries, which Islam also encourages. I also acknowledge that many Muslim-majority countries have now restricted religious debate, but this is not a reflection of Islam itself.

Can you explain blasphemy laws and how Abdus Salam is no longer considered a muslim, then ?

 

[nuttyprof]

For India to be Hindu rashtra India has to be Hindu majority.

Are we not having this discussion in English ?

You consistently deflect the discussion by introducing irrelevant opinions and passing judgment rooted in inherited biases against a particular religion.

Let us reconsider the scenario, even if hypothetical, given that you and others with Hindutva beliefs attribute India’s economic success to religious factors, rather than to investments in education, aside from those driven by foreign companies and factories operating within India.

If the UAE or any Muslim-majority country were to begin innovating, would you then argue that their success is intrinsically tied to Islam?

There is something to be said about how Hindus consider education to be important. Also something that can be observed in literacy rates between the two communities.Indian investment in education is actually abysmal and education infrastructure in India is not particularly great.

 

[rpant_gabba]

I think USA is one of the most innovative countries in the world.
Can we agree to disagree while we are at it. Not sure why so aggro at me buddy. I respect your opinions . Happy to engage with you on discord etc

nah man.No beef with you!

I was engaging someone else regarding protestant work ethic.

US is a protestant dominant country and the statement was US is good becos of protestant work ethic

with this quoted source.

Zakaria: Can America Still Innovate?​

I bascially took it to its logical end point

Zakaria: Can America Still Innovate?​

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...usg=AOvVaw1YNVXSsqzpkIYG3JiSQusG&opi=89978449

 

[deltexas]

You can believe that if you want but the fact is they never became Modi puppets despite best efforts of India.

Modi make India look like a care home for elderly patients with the way he accepted Hasina Bibi.

Thats the difference in comprehension. Ind never haas or had expansionist goals. It's always been protecting Ind first. All the qars werr started by pak rather who lost them. Even during kargil war- vajpayee explicitly asked ind army not to cross loc. And regarding puppets- the biggest puppet in se asia is pak.

 

[arunp]

so its becos of Protestant teachings america can't innovate anymore?

USA is super innovative. I am not sure what basis you are saying it on.
My original quote was "Some of USA successes can be attributed to Protestant Work Ethic".
Zakaria, Weber, Samuel Huntington have made authoritative books on it, which is far more than proofs on WMD. So let's agree to disagree on it. Happy to hash it out with you outside the forum. I agree with a lot of what you say.

 

[arunp]

Let us reconsider the scenario, even if hypothetical, given that you and others with Hindutva beliefs attribute India’s economic success to religious factors, rather than to investments in education, aside from those driven by foreign companies and factories operating within India.

Indian investment in education is abysmal. You can also take a look at the literacy rates in both the communities to gauge the importance placed in education by both the cultures.

If the UAE or any Muslim-majority country were to begin innovating, would you then argue that their success is intrinsically tied to Islam?

Hypothetical.

 

[rpant_gabba]

USA is super innovative. I am not sure what basis you are saying it on.
My original quote was "Some of USA successes can be attributed to Protestant Work Ethic".
Zakaria, Weber, Samuel Huntington have made authoritative books on it, which is far more than proofs on WMD. So let's agree to disagree on it. Happy to hash it out with you outside the forum. I agree with a lot of what you say.

you actually put stock into their opinions. I don't.

agree its a bit off topic.

 

[Technics 1210]

It is a myth that India did not and does not have expansionists goals. Just look at Modi who regularly pleads with Western leaders to lift immigration quotas on Indians.

The fact is Pakistan, China, and now even Bangladesh have collectively thwarted any expansion attempt by India, be it territorial, political, economical, and even social.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Thats the difference in comprehension. Ind never haas or had expansionist goals. It's always been protecting Ind first. All the qars werr started by pak rather who lost them. Even during kargil war- vajpayee explicitly asked ind army not to cross loc. And regarding puppets- the biggest puppet in se asia is pak.

I wasn't talking about expansionist goals but nice diversion.

I've asked a few Indians on here about why they propped up Hasina and gave her safe passage into their country and they haven't yet answered properly.

In Bangladesh she is regarded as a corrupt tyrant responsible for 1000s of deaths.

Rather than address this you guys go off on tangents about CIA and Pakistan.

Can you explain why India has given shelter to Hasina?

 

[deltexas]

I wasn't talking about expansionist goals but nice diversion.

I've asked a few Indians on here about why they propped up Hasina and gave her safe passage into their country and they haven't yet answered properly.

In Bangladesh she is regarded as a corrupt tyrant responsible for 1000s of deaths.

Rather than address this you guys go off on tangents about CIA and Pakistan.

Can you explain why India has given shelter to Hasina?

Ind has not propped up Hasina. Ind will be friendly with any gov that is friendly with Ind gov. Again its between 2 countries. Hasina gov has been on good terms with Ind gov and that is in In's interests . Simple as that. Simple geopolitics. Ind will work with the new Ban gov as well to have good relations. Ind understands some of it is political - again geopolitics. The Maldives new prez was totally anti Ind and now when he won and elections are over - he is reaching out to Ind and talks have resumed again between Ind and Maldives. Governments work with what is in front of them .

Again , what Hasina gov does internally with her nation is none of Ind business. Ind deals with US for example - but what US does internally is none of Ind business. Ind relations with Hasina are as a head of gov in Ban. Relations b/w 2 countries. Again simple geopolitics .

Ind has given shelter to Hasina as a formed state head. Are you telling me she didnt get safe passage without the the consent on the Ban army ? They could have detained her if they wanted to and arrested. They must have facilitated the safe passage to Ind and agreed to it. And it was a stopover to asylum in UK or USA. Now they have both denied asylum - so its in a limbo. Not in Ind interests at all to keep Hasina longer - there must be some backroom talks going on for sure.

 

[deltexas]

I've asked a few Indians on here about why they propped up Hasina and gave her safe passage into their country and they haven't yet answered properly.

In Bangladesh she is regarded as a corrupt tyrant responsible for 1000s of deaths.

Rather than address this you guys go off on tangents about CIA and Pakistan.

Can you explain why India has given shelter to Hasina?

What Are Ex Bangladesh PM Sheikh Hasina's Plans? India Says...​

Mrs Hasina was expected to claim political asylum in the United Kingdom, but Home Office officials told NDTV this week no request had been made.​

New Delhi:
There is no update, yet, on Sheikh Hasina's future plans, the External Affairs Ministry said Thursday, days after the Bangladeshi leader fled her country amid violent protests against her rule. "We do not have any update on her plan..." a ministry spokesperson said when asked when she will leave India.

The Ministry also said it continues to monitor all developments and hopes for an early end to the crisis in Bangladesh. The situation in that country is still evolving, the Ministry said.

Mrs Hasina - who resigned and left Dhaka hours before the Prime Minister's residence was overrun - was evacuated in a military aircraft and flown to an IAF base in Uttar Pradesh. She was expected to proceed onwards to claim political asylum in the United Kingdom, but there has been no news since.

British Home Office sources told NDTV its rules do not allow people to travel to that country to seek asylum or temporary refuge. For now, Mrs Hasina is believed to be in the custody of Indian intelligence.

On Wednesday night Mrs Hasina's son, Sajeeb Wazed, told NDTV his mother had not made formal requests for asylum in any country, including India. "Reports about her requesting asylum are incorrect. She has not requested anywhere. So question of UK or US not responding yet is not true."



Mr Wazed is based in Washington, D.C. in the United States. Mrs Hasina left Bangladesh with her sister Sheikh Rehana, who is a UK citizen and whose daughter, Tulip Siddiqui is a Labour MP.

Mrs Hasina's daughter, Saima Wazed, is a Delhi-based senior World Health Organisation officer but a Twitter post suggests she has not met her mother since her escape from Dhaka.
The UK has a record of giving refuge to prominent (and fleeing) political figures from the subcontinent, including Pakistani leaders Pervez Musharraf and Nawaz Sharif. It was not surprising, then to see Mrs Hasina linked to that country. But a Home Office spokesperson seemed to dismiss any such plan, saying individuals seeking asylum must do so "in the first safe country they reach".


The External Affairs Ministry did confirm that the minister and his British counterpart, David Lammy, "spoke about developments in Bangladesh and West Asia...", but would not offer details.

Meanwhile, Mrs Hasina's son may be US-based but the chances of her moving there are slim after Washington-Dhaka ties nosedived during her tenure. In fact, earlier this year, when her Awami League won the election, the State Department had said, "The United States remains concerned by the arrests of thousands of political opposition members and by reports of irregularities on elections day."

There are also reports Mrs Hasina's US visa has been cancelled.
Delhi also faces a diplomatic dilemma.

It does not want to be seen as backing Mrs Hasina because that could complicate ties with the incoming government of a strategic geopolitical partner. But her history with India must also be noted.

Long before she became PM, the Indira Gandhi government gave Mrs Hasina refuge after her whole family, including father Mujibur Rahaman, was assassinated during the 1975 unrest in Bangladesh.

Sheikh Hasina Retirement?​

The former PM's son also told NDTV his mother is contemplating retirement after a political career spanning five terms as the head of Bangladesh's government. "She is done with politics in Bangladesh... my mother was planning to retire anyway, this was going to be her last term," he said.

The family, he added, is now planning to spend time together - where and how is yet to be worked out. "I am in Washington, my aunt is in London, my sister lives in Delhi... so we don't know, she might travel between the places," he said.

Source - NDTV

What Are Ex Bangladesh PM Sheikh Hasina's Plans? India Says...

There is no update, yet, on Sheikh Hasina's future plans, the External Affairs Ministry said Thursday, days after the ousted Bangladeshi leader fled her country amid violent protests against her rule.

www.ndtv.com

 

[arunp]

It is a myth that India did not and does not have expansionists goals. Just look at Modi who regularly pleads with Western leaders to lift immigration quotas on Indians.

hahaha.... Pleading with western leaders = expansionist goals. Good to know.

 

[arunp]

It’s intriguing to hear that Rotti Sahib believes India’s economic success is attributed to it being a Hindu Rashtra.

You specifically said "It being Hindu Rashtra". It is not a Hindu Rashtra but it is a Hindu majority country, just like USA. Ohh wait, you defend Pakistan... Now it makes sense....

 

[Romali_rotti]

You specifically said "It being Hindu Rashtra". It is not a Hindu Rashtra but it is a Hindu majority country, just like USA. Ohh wait, you defend Pakistan... Now it makes sense....

Some of the brilliant comments you see on this thread by Pakistanis, seems like they are living in an alternate reality.

With ppl like this, its not surprising why Pakistan is in the state it is currently in.

 

[HalBass9]

You specifically said "It being Hindu Rashtra". It is not a Hindu Rashtra but it is a Hindu majority country, just like USA. Ohh wait, you defend Pakistan... Now it makes sense....

Defend Pakistan? The actions of the Pakistan establishment and current government have rendered the very notion of defending Pakistan utterly untenable.

My critique is focused on India.

Doesn't 'Hindu Rashtra' translate to 'Hindu nation,' and for most Hindus, isn't it considered a way of life when discussed in religious terms?

Before you proceed to elaborate on the 'Hindu Rashtra' concept, could you first address a rather glaring contradiction? When a Muslim-majority country innovates something, is it invariably attributed to Islam? Or is it that only religions other than Islam are afforded the privilege of claiming credit for their respective contributions?

 

[HalBass9]

Some of the brilliant comments you see on this thread by Pakistanis, seems like they are living in an alternate reality.

With ppl like this, its not surprising why Pakistan is in the state it is currently in.

I agree Pakistan is regressing because they are Muslim majority country.

But what exactly does India’s Hindu majority have to do with any innovation? In fact, I have yet to discover any notable innovation India has contributed to the world since Modi assumed power—though that’s a separate discussion. Nevertheless, what relevance does Hinduism have to India’s ability to mint more Lakshmi?

 

[arunp]

Before you proceed to elaborate on the 'Hindu Rashtra' concept, could you first address a rather glaring contradiction? When a Muslim-majority country innovates something, is it invariably attributed to Islam? Or is it that only religions other than Islam are afforded the privilege of claiming credit for their respective contributions?

It depends on how much the religion and the resulting culture has helped fostering the environment around innovation. Again it is hypothetical. Happy to consider it if there are specific examples. Currently I am aware of no muslim scientists from Islam countries who have won a Nobel prize. Explain why that is the case

 

[arunp]

I agree Pakistan is regressing because they are Muslim majority country.

But what exactly does India’s Hindu majority have to do with any innovation? In fact, I have yet to discover any notable innovation India has contributed to the world since Modi assumed power—though that’s a separate discussion. Nevertheless, what relevance does Hinduism have to India’s ability to mint more Lakshmi?

Dude.... I explained it earlier. They worship Saraswati. Education is considered to be as high as Wealth in Hindu culture. It can be noticed in literacy rates in both the communities.. I have replied it earlier.

 

[IndoorCricket]

I agree Pakistan is regressing because they are Muslim majority country.

But what exactly does India’s Hindu majority have to do with any innovation? In fact, I have yet to discover any notable innovation India has contributed to the world since Modi assumed power—though that’s a separate discussion. Nevertheless, what relevance does Hinduism have to India’s ability to mint more Lakshmi?

Check India stack.

A digital infrastructure known as the India Stack is revolutionizing access to finance

The India Stack is Revolutionizing Access to Finance - IMF F&D

www.imf.org

Unified Payments Interface - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

UPI has transformed digital finance in India.

 

[Theanonymousone]

Just a quote from few posters doesnt represent that people of India are after some ‘Akhanda Bharat’

BJP or any other party is representative of India for 5 years and people vote based on past performance and next 5 year Manifesto - which doesnt even mention this Asian dominance.

All the general populace wants is good economical growth and prosperity of its citizens.

What we truly want is
1. To be leader in IT exports which India is and will remain. Before you jump into downgrading this with call centets, look at how India has become the GCC hub globally. India (Hyd/Blr) is the base for most of the leading companies (Amazon, Google, Microsoft, JPMC, Wells Farho, Goldman Sachs etc) outside of their HQ’s. And if you look at their hiring pipeline in India by 2030, people here will be amazed.
2. We are yet to see the Semi-conductor growth in India and Fab manufacturing (which is about to start in 2026) will only take this forward. To add to this, India is again the top GCC hub for all the semiconductor manufacturing companies (just in 2022-23 itself, 60% of the new GCC’s in India are Semiconductor companies)
3. We will surely become a leader in Pharma industry in future positioned as an economic drug exporter and medical tourism.
4. Our auto industry will experience a fast paced growth similar to China once EV revolution happens by early 2030’s
5. We are already gaining market share for electronics globally due to China+1 strategy by most companies

Irrespective of political scenario, India is on a growth path and once the global markets recover, we will hit double digit growth. It is not about asian dominance but economic prosperity

 

[Theanonymousone]

Check India stack.

A digital infrastructure known as the India Stack is revolutionizing access to finance

The India Stack is Revolutionizing Access to Finance - IMF F&D

www.imf.org

Unified Payments Interface - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

UPI has transformed digital finance in India.

Demonetization may have not yielded its primary targets, but as a by-product, digital finance has experienced a rapid growth from then. Modi is quite lucky in this sense.

The penetration of digital wallets has become so huge particularly in urban cities that, people most often dont carry cash with them

 

[FearlessRoar]

Nepal's Oli extends invitation to PM Modi for visit​

Nepal Prime Minister K P Sharma Oli on Sunday extended an invitation to his Indian counterpart Narendra Modi to visit the Himalayan nation.

Oli extended the invitation to Prime Minister Modi for the visit through visiting Foreign Secretary Vikram Misri, who paid a courtesy call on the Nepalese Prime Minister, according to a statement issued by the Prime Minister's secretariat here.

Oli was sworn in as Nepal's prime minister for a fourth time last month. He assumed office after the government led by Pushpa Kamal Dahal 'Prachanda' lost the vote of confidence in the House of Representatives.

Misri also called on the former prime minister and Nepali Congress president Sher Bahadur Deuba at his residence at Budhanilkantha on the outskirts of Kathmandu.

During the meeting, they discussed various matters relating to mutual interest, according to Deuba's office.

During the meeting, the two sides discussed subjects related to strengthening Nepal-India relations and further moving forward mutually beneficial cooperation, it said.

Nepal's Oli extends invitation to PM Modi for visit

PM Oli extended the invitation to Prime Minister Modi for the visit through visiting Foreign Secretary Vikram Misri, who paid a courtesy call on the Nepalese Prime Minister, according to a statement issued by the Prime Minister's secretariat here.

www.indiatoday.in

 

[IndoorCricket]

Just a quote from few posters doesnt represent that people of India are after some ‘Akhanda Bharat’

BJP or any other party is representative of India for 5 years and people vote based on past performance and next 5 year Manifesto - which doesnt even mention this Asian dominance.

All the general populace wants is good economical growth and prosperity of its citizens.

What we truly want is
1. To be leader in IT exports which India is and will remain. Before you jump into downgrading this with call centets, look at how India has become the GCC hub globally. India (Hyd/Blr) is the base for most of the leading companies (Amazon, Google, Microsoft, JPMC, Wells Farho, Goldman Sachs etc) outside of their HQ’s. And if you look at their hiring pipeline in India by 2030, people here will be amazed.
2. We are yet to see the Semi-conductor growth in India and Fab manufacturing (which is about to start in 2026) will only take this forward. To add to this, India is again the top GCC hub for all the semiconductor manufacturing companies (just in 2022-23 itself, 60% of the new GCC’s in India are Semiconductor companies)
3. We will surely become a leader in Pharma industry in future positioned as an economic drug exporter and medical tourism.
4. Our auto industry will experience a fast paced growth similar to China once EV revolution happens by early 2030’s
5. We are already gaining market share for electronics globally due to China+1 strategy by most companies

Irrespective of political scenario, India is on a growth path and once the global markets recover, we will hit double digit growth. It is not about asian dominance but economic prosperity

There was a recent announcement for 3200 crore worth of investments from top IT companies in Madhya Pradesh. This would be a game changer for BIMARU states. Top investors are from Google, NVIDIA and Microsoft.


NVIDIA suggested creating a blueprint to transform Madhya Pradesh into the “Intelligence Capital of India.”
Read more at: https://analyticsindiamag.com/ai-ne...t-to-invest-inr-3200-crore-in-madhya-pradesh/