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Is it right to put an individual or political party above your country?

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RizwanT20Champ

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It baffles me how people become so obsessed with certain individuals and political parties that they forget about the country in the process. How and why does this happen? Shouldn't the nation always take precedence over personal or party loyalty?

Would love to hear different perspectives on this. What drives this mindset, and how can we ensure that the country's interests remain the top priority?
 
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Rana said:
I don’t know about supporting a political party

What I do know about is hating a political party who’s supporters hate everything about everyone else, whilst not being an ounce better than everything they claim to hate.
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That's my gist as well and my impression. I have seen and met a lot of people around the world and have rarely seen such a cult following.
 
Given Pakistan's current situation, unity is crucial to building the country together. However, a certain group is deliberately promoting division for their personal gain. They are using the yahudi formula divide and rule.
 
emranabbas said:
Given Pakistan's current situation, unity is crucial to building the country together. However, a certain group is deliberately promoting division for their personal gain. They are using the yahudi formula divide and rule.
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And that while thinking they are patriotic! The irony!
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
It baffles me how people become so obsessed with certain individuals and political parties that they forget about the country in the process. How and why does this happen? Shouldn't the nation always take precedence over personal or party loyalty?

Would love to hear different perspectives on this. What drives this mindset, and how can we ensure that the country's interests remain the top priority?
Click to expand...

The simple answer would be martial law or some form of authoritarian govt.
 
Looks like individuals really are more important than the nation after all, ironically to those who insist otherwise.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
I was just trying to understand the reasoning - however given the source of the comment I should have known better.
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Given this is your thread - and I assume you want serious answers - maybe leave the giggly smilies and tagging people to dumb comments about individuals, and address the topic you want to discuss.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Given this is your thread - and I assume you want serious answers - maybe leave the giggly smilies and tagging people to dumb comments about individuals, and address the topic you want to discuss.
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Rishwat,This is the big league. If you have anything useful to contribute say it, if not don't let the door hit you on the way out.
 
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RizwanT20Champ said:
Rishwat,This is the big league. If you have anything useful to contribute say it, if not don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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I already answered your OP in post #9.

Maybe you missed it when you were giggling at the Modi spokesman's contribution.
 
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Absolutely it baffles me too. It's unfair though that you guys seem to single out PTI.

According to the Anti PTI crew supporting Imran Khan makes you a cult member.

However the following things do not make you a cult member.

Hundreds Sitting around listening to Altaf on loudspeaker - Not a cult.

People calling a coward and thief such Nawaz Sharif as their sher - Not cult

Thinking Bhuttos have a divine right to live - Not cult

Believing Pak Army are Angels - Not cult

Supporting Diesel while he has one night stands with multiple political parties - Not cult.

Yet somehow it's only the PTI guys that are against the betterment of Pakistan...
 
Over 75% of Pakistanis, some estimates suggest over 80% voted for a party and leadership that was unlawfully banned by the establishment. Every attempt to support the ruling generals, whether through threads or comments, remains irrelevant and will continue to be, regardless of how it is framed.

Policies define leadership, and the Pakistani people are well aware of which policies, and which leaders, will serve their long-term interests.

While the generals hide from public view, their beneficiaries, though few in number but loud in presence, dominate Pakistani media, desperately trying to convince people that dictators are the best option for Pakistan. Quite amusing, LOL.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
I already answered your OP in post #9.

Maybe you missed it when you were giggling at the Modi spokesman's contribution.
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That was a complete strawman intended to deflect from the OP - if you believe in authoritarianism or marital law
 
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RizwanT20Champ said:
That was a complete strawman intended to deflect from the OP - if you believe in authoritarianism or marital law
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That was just your assumption. Every nation has different needs and has to take into account geopolitics and how that affects it's own interests and those of it's people. So I assumed you were talking about Pakistan since this seems to be a follow on from a previous thread. If it's not regarding Pakistan then maybe give us a hint which nation you want to address and we can widen the topic.
 
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It's a self pity thread. Every unborn Pakistani child now knows who is responsible for the current crisis in Pakistan. Since they can't voice it publicly without facing ridicule, let them have a few moments of anonymity on the forum. They understand that, sooner or later, their time is up.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
Absolutely it baffles me too. It's unfair though that you guys seem to single out PTI.

According to the Anti PTI crew supporting Imran Khan makes you a cult member.

However the following things do not make you a cult member.

Hundreds Sitting around listening to Altaf on loudspeaker - Not a cult.

People calling a coward and thief such Nawaz Sharif as their sher - Not cult

Thinking Bhuttos have a divine right to live - Not cult

Believing Pak Army are Angels - Not cult

Supporting Diesel while he has one night stands with multiple political parties - Not cult.

Yet somehow it's only the PTI guys that are against the betterment of Pakistan...
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Sorry Deadly bhai but this seems like those Indians who deflect with "what about Pakistan" whenever you point out something with their country. The problem is this party you mention made itself out to be some kind of lifesaver for the people when in truth they were not averse to doing everything you guys accuse the other parties of.

Now when the party in power - which represents the country - is doing something good, fans of this party you mention make it about one man/one party. I am sorry but he is not an angel and the country is much bigger than him.
 
HalBass9 said:
It's a self pity thread. Every unborn Pakistani child now knows who is responsible for the current crisis in Pakistan. Since they can't voice it publicly without facing ridicule, let them have a few moments of anonymity on the forum. They understand that, sooner or later, their time is up.
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Is this a threat? What exactly do you mean by this?
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
Sorry Deadly bhai but this seems like those Indians who deflect with "what about Pakistan" whenever you point out something with their country. The problem is this party you mention made itself out to be some kind of lifesaver for the people when in truth they were not averse to doing everything you guys accuse the other parties of.

Now when the party in power - which represents the country - is doing something good, fans of this party you mention make it about one man/one party. I am sorry but he is not an angel and the country is much bigger than him.
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Country is, that is why, your handler, your cult leader, the dictator, has to go, live the rest of his life in some foreign land, like last dictator.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
That was just your assumption. Every nation has different needs and has to take into account geopolitics and how that affects it's own interests and those of it's people. So I assumed you were talking about Pakistan since this seems to be a follow on from a previous thread. If it's not regarding Pakistan then maybe give us a hint which nation you want to address and we can widen the topic.
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No nation will benefit from dictatorship, that is just vile wishing that on the underprivileged people in developing countries as you sip hot chai in upmarket in cafes.
 
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HalBass9 said:
It's a self pity thread. Every unborn Pakistani child now knows who is responsible for the current crisis in Pakistan. Since they can't voice it publicly without facing ridicule, let them have a few moments of anonymity on the forum. They understand that, sooner or later, their time is up.
Click to expand...
Tabdeeli aa nae rahee tabdeeli aa gayee hae yaaro ;)
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
Handler? Cult leader? Who is my handler exactly? Why not be open here?
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I didn’t realize you could take on different personas

This thread isn’t going anywhere because it’s born out of desperation to score points. But it falls flat when the majority of Pakistanis have already rejected your cult leaders, the dictators.
 
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HalBass9 said:
Over 75% of Pakistanis, some estimates suggest over 80% voted for a party and leadership that was unlawfully banned by the establishment. Every attempt to support the ruling generals, whether through threads or comments, remains irrelevant and will continue to be, regardless of how it is framed.

Policies define leadership, and the Pakistani people are well aware of which policies, and which leaders, will serve their long-term interests.

While the generals hide from public view, their beneficiaries, though few in number but loud in presence, dominate Pakistani media, desperately trying to convince people that dictators are the best option for Pakistan. Quite amusing, LOL.
Click to expand...
Prove it! That is nonsense.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
No nation will benefit from dictatorship, that is just vile wishing that on the underprivileged people in developing countries as you sip hot chai in upmarket UK cafes.
Click to expand...

China is an authoritarian regime which has developed far faster and more efficiently than the democracies in South Asia. While I am not a fan of authoritarian regimes, it does beg the question why democracy in Pakistan has failed so abjectly. My own personal view is that all we have seen is sham democracy where govts get the boot as soon as they rub the wrong establishment figures the wrong way.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
Prove it! That is nonsense.
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LOL, there you have it. And this is the person you all want to debate? Stop wasting your time, let them fade into obscurity. Pakistanis who support democracy don’t need to engage with those who glorify a cult leader known as a dictator. Let’s not forget Pakistan’s perilous history under the rule of dictators.
 
HalBass9 said:
LOL, there you have it. And this is the person you all want to debate? Stop wasting your time, let them fade into obscurity. Pakistanis who support democracy don’t need to engage with those who glorify a cult leader known as a dictator. Let’s not forget Pakistan’s perilous history under the rule of dictators.
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So you can throw whatever random numbers you want? Why don't you show a source for your statement? The burden of proof is on you.
 
Though we are a global family on principle and Science/Tech is enabling us to be that way, there are still hard boundaries for countries and it is going to be that way for the forth coming future. So it is absolutely important to be loyal to the country you reside in. You can believe in any fairy tale story in your brain, but it should not override your patriotism.
Ultimately we live in a physical world and the growth and development of the country matters the most. If we are not patriotic and not work for the progress of the country, ultimately it will be us and our children that will suffer from the lack of love for the country.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
So you can throw whatever random numbers you want? Why don't you show a source for your statement? The burden of proof is on you.
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What makes you think I’m engaging with you for a debate? LOL.

The majority of Pakistanis are already my audience, I have nothing to prove to you or the cult you follow, led by a so called dictator.

Come up with a better, more worthy topic for debate. Your attempt to elevate yourself and your dictators has already failed in the last election.

I have no interest in debating your comfort in supporting a dictator, but I will certainly ridicule your failed attempt to undermine the intelligence of the majority of Pakistanis.
 
Champ_Pal said:
Though we are a global family on principle and Science/Tech is enabling us to be that way, there are still hard boundaries for countries and it is going to be that way for the forth coming future. So it is absolutely important to be loyal to the country you reside in. You can believe in any fairy tale story in your brain, but it should not override your patriotism.
Ultimately we live in a physical world and the growth and development of the country matters the most. If we are not patriotic and not work for the progress of the country, ultimately it will be us and our children that will suffer from the lack of love for the country.
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Agreed and it is imperative that we stop idolizing cult figures as that has never worked out well for a country's progress.
 
HalBass9 said:
What makes you think I’m engaging with you for a debate? LOL.

The majority of Pakistanis are already my audience, I have nothing to prove to you or the cult you follow, led by a so called dictator.

Come up with a better, more worthy topic for debate. Your attempt to elevate yourself and your dictators has already failed in the last election.

I have no interest in debating your comfort in supporting a dictator, but I will certainly ridicule your failed attempt to undermine the intelligence of the majority of Pakistanis.
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A lot of words - no sources and empty claims with insults and threats. Figured and expected. Thanks for dropping by and enjoy this golden era :-)
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
A lot of words - no sources and empty claims with insults and threats. Figured and expected. Thanks for dropping by and enjoy this golden era :-)
Click to expand...
I am mature enough not to send threats to random people on a forum, but you aren’t mature enough to perceive a counter to your praise of your cult leader, the dictator, as a threat.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
Sorry Deadly bhai but this seems like those Indians who deflect with "what about Pakistan" whenever you point out something with their country. The problem is this party you mention made itself out to be some kind of lifesaver for the people when in truth they were not averse to doing everything you guys accuse the other parties of.

Now when the party in power - which represents the country - is doing something good, fans of this party you mention make it about one man/one party. I am sorry but he is not an angel and the country is much bigger than him.
Click to expand...
It isn't deflection. I have given examples of people putting an individual or political party above their country. It is a consistent theme in Pakistan. If the topic is to be discussed seriously, then one must acknowledge that this phenomenon is not specific to one party.
 
HalBass9 said:
I am mature enough not to send threats to random people on a forum, but you aren’t mature enough to perceive a counter to your praise of your cult leader, the dictator, as a threat.
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Nice way to backtrack - I don't care anyway. Our people are not scared of thugs and we will win this fight between good and evil.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
It isn't deflection. I have given examples of people putting an individual or political party above their country. It is a consistent theme in Pakistan. If the topic is to be discussed seriously, then one must acknowledge that this phenomenon is not specific to one party.
Click to expand...
You could find a million examples in Pak - what is causing the most damage to Pak now though? If you have common cough, fever, cold and a broken leg, what do you treat first?
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
Nice way to backtrack - I don't care anyway. Our people are not scared of thugs and we will win this fight between good and evil.
Click to expand...
Evil has already taken over, the dictators you worship are running the show. What more are you trying to achieve? Winning the hearts and minds of the Pakistani people? LOL.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
You could find a million examples in Pak - what is causing the most damage to Pak now though? If you have common cough, fever, cold and a broken leg, what do you treat first?
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Broken legs. The most prosperous countries in the world, despite lacking natural resources, are the ones with democracy, not dictatorship. So, thanks for the analogy.
 
It is not right to put an individual or a political party above country.

Having said that, blind nationalism is toxic and harmful. A balance is required.

I am more of a patriot than a nationalist.
 
HalBass9 said:
Evil has already taken over, the dictators you worship are running the show. What more are you trying to achieve? Winning the hearts and minds of the Pakistani people? LOL.
Click to expand...
Boohoo keep crying, the will of the people won. If you have credible proof to the contrary let's see it, otherwise jog on. The country is bigger than any one person - always has been and always will be including any egoistical, deluded megalomaniac in jail or otherwise with a cult following.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
It baffles me how people become so obsessed with certain individuals and political parties that they forget about the country in the process. How and why does this happen? Shouldn't the nation always take precedence over personal or party loyalty?

Would love to hear different perspectives on this. What drives this mindset, and how can we ensure that the country's interests remain the top priority?
Click to expand...

This is what comes across when you post and defend the Sharifs, as if they were the most sharif.

The best man or woman is the best for the country. Every country, army, empire, team all need a great leader.

Its you who needs to explain your obsession with well known corrupt politician dynasties who have looted the land blind?
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
You could find a million examples in Pak - what is causing the most damage to Pak now though? If you have common cough, fever, cold and a broken leg, what do you treat first?
Click to expand...
We can't accept these narrow debate parameters. I would like to address the OP as presented.

If you want to narrow the parameter of the debate please ask a moderator to amend the thread title to include a date range and ask them to narrow down the party to PTI alone.
 
HalBass9 said:
Broken legs. The most prosperous countries in the world, despite lacking natural resources, are the ones with democracy, not dictatorship. So, thanks for the analogy.
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Where have I advocated for dictatorship? That was your buddy, Rishwat.
 
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RizwanT20Champ said:
Boohoo keep crying, the will of the people won. If you have credible proof to the contrary let's see it, otherwise jog on. The country is bigger than any one person - always has been and always will be including any egoistical, deluded megalomaniac in jail or otherwise with a cult following.
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It is, over 80% have decided, but the decision was hijacked by your cult leader, the dictator. You keep claiming to support the majority of Pakistanis, yet you know your target but fail to hit it. Keep trying.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
Rishwat, I am not your little Indian buddies you boss around. This is the big league. If you have anything useful to contribute say it, if not don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Click to expand...

Narrator: Rishi doesn't boss anybody around in any league.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
We can't accept these narrow debate parameters. I would like to address the OP as presented.

If you want to narrow the parameter of the debate please ask a moderator to amend the thread title to include a date range and ask them to narrow down the party to PTI alone.
Click to expand...
- you mention figures in your post who were last relevant when Obama hadn't yet taken oath maybe.
 
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KingKhanWC said:
This is what comes across when you post and defend the Sharifs, as if they were the most sharif.

The best man or woman is the best for the country. Every country, army, empire, team all need a great leader.

Its you who needs to explain your obsession with well known corrupt politician dynasties who have looted the land blind?
Click to expand...
Any sources?
 
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RizwanT20Champ said:
you mention figures in your post who were last relevant when Obama hadn't yet taken oath maybe.
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Aren't the sharifs in power, supported by the Army and the Bhuttos?

Didn't diesel help in the VONC against Imran Khan?

How are all of these actors irrelevant?
 
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DeadlyVenom said:
Aren't the sharifs in power, supported by the Army and the Bhuttos?

Didn't diesel help in the VONC against Imran Khan?

How are all of these actors irrelevant?
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I am curious did Dielsel turn from good to bad when he helped in the VONC against this individual you mention?
 
Your entire argument falls apart when the majority of Pakistanis elect a party through a democratic process, only for dictators to steal the election. Pakistanis are exercising their democratic rights against dictatorship, you cannot label the majority as a cult for simply practicing their right to vote. The real cult is made up of those who brand the democratic majority as a cult while defending dictatorship.

There is no debate or discussion to be had, arguing in favor of dictators ruling Pakistan is one of the most tired, overplayed narratives since the country's inception. I’m sure most of you have better things to do, but for entertainment, I’ll gladly join in to mock the followers of any dictator.

Patriotism means standing up for democracy.
 
DeadlyVenom said:
It isn't deflection. I have given examples of people putting an individual or political party above their country. It is a consistent theme in Pakistan. If the topic is to be discussed seriously, then one must acknowledge that this phenomenon is not specific to one party.
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Although OP likes to pretend othewise, it is pretty clear this thread was created with an individual in mind, same as the other one. If you try to discuss beyond that scope he quickly gets dumbfounded and starts talking abstract notions about the good of the country being paramount, without wanting to debate how this would be judged.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
Prove it! That is nonsense.
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That's based on an estimate? 😂😂😂

Estimate by who? PTI and its supporters, the sore losers.

If 80% of the Pakistani population actually supported them, there would have been a massive uproar in Pakistan. It's more likely 80% of foreigners.

You can clearly see from PTI's protests not even 1% of the Pakistani population is participating, yet they claim 80% voted for Imran Khan.
 
emranabbas said:
That's based on an estimate? 😂😂😂

Estimate by who? PTI and its supporters, the sore losers.

If 80% of the Pakistani population actually supported them, there would have been a massive uproar in Pakistan. It's more likely 80% of foreigners.

You can clearly see from PTI's protests not even 1% of the Pakistani population is participating, yet they claim 80% voted for Imran Khan.
Click to expand...

Yet another attempt to undermine the intelligence of the Pakistani people.
 
RizwanT20Champ said:
Sure but he likes to do this whole pompous British act - that doesn't fly with me unlike the Indians who are in awe.
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Pakistanis refused to even teach English as a major language for so long, Indians were more in step with the British Raj and to their benefit as it turns out, as English has been a major soft power to the the language. Don't blame them or me for it, it was part of keeping with the modern world.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Pakistanis refused to even teach English as a major language for so long, Indians were more in step with the British Raj and to their benefit as it turns out, as English has been a major soft power to the the language. Don't blame them or me for it, it was part of keeping with the modern world.
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Rishwat, I already told you I'm not these little Indians friends that you troll - if your English is your only redeeming point that's not much to speak about. :inti
 
emranabbas said:
That's based on an estimate? 😂😂😂

Estimate by who? PTI and its supporters, the sore losers.

If 80% of the Pakistani population actually supported them, there would have been a massive uproar in Pakistan. It's more likely 80% of foreigners.

You can clearly see from PTI's protests not even 1% of the Pakistani population is participating, yet they claim 80% voted for Imran Khan.
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Exactly. The delusions of grandeur and the gall to lie through their teeth with this lot. Based on their numbers there should have been 100 million on the streets protesting.
 
@RizwanT20Champ These cult followers, the moment someone points out their leader’s incompetence they respond with nothing but rudeness and aggression. And when they resort to aggression it’s a clear sign that they are blind individuals.

Pakistan’s system needs to be understood first before attempting to change it. And to bring real change, blame games won’t work what’s needed is strategic and tactical action that leads to long term solutions. Systems don’t change overnight nor do they change through endless blaming.
 
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FearlessRoar said:
@RizwanT20Champ These cult followers, the moment someone points out their leader’s incompetence they respond with nothing but rudeness and aggression. And when they resort to aggression it’s a clear sign that they are Jahil individuals.

Pakistan’s system needs to be understood first before attempting to change it. And to bring real change, blame games won’t work what’s needed is strategic and tactical action that leads to long term solutions. Systems don’t change overnight nor do they change through endless blaming.
Click to expand...
The long term solution lies in democracy, not in backing dictators.

Pakistanis are well aware of their country's system, and they made a choice for change in the last election. However, their mandate was taken from them.

Pointing out the supporters of a dictatorial regime is not an insult but a statement of fact.

One cannot accuse others of disrespect simply for speaking the truth.
 
HalBass9 said:
The long term solution lies in democracy, not in backing dictators.

Pakistanis are well aware of their country's system, and they made a choice for change in the last election. However, their mandate was taken from them.

Pointing out the supporters of a dictatorial regime is not an insult but a statement of fact.

One cannot accuse others of disrespect simply for speaking the truth.
Click to expand...
Mery Bhai when PML-N was constantly crying about dictatorship and the "khalai makhlooq" why was there no issue back then? And when IK couldn’t stop praising the establishment why did no one have a problem with that?
 
FearlessRoar said:
@RizwanT20Champ These cult followers, the moment someone points out their leader’s incompetence they respond with nothing but rudeness and aggression. And when they resort to aggression it’s a clear sign that they are Jahil individuals.

Pakistan’s system needs to be understood first before attempting to change it. And to bring real change, blame games won’t work what’s needed is strategic and tactical action that leads to long term solutions. Systems don’t change overnight nor do they change through endless blaming.
Click to expand...
It is a trend with these cultists and a common theme. What really annoys me is these random statements hoping nobody would ask for proof. 80% he says! That should have meant close to 200 million people on the streets then! Hadd hotee hae yaar. Ye kaisee tabdeeli!
 
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