Joe Root: ‘Winning the Ashes in Australia would mean more than anything’

[Buffet]

......

Joe Root: ‘Winning the Ashes in Australia would mean more than anything’​

“I know this one,” Joe Root says with a little grin as he confirms the latest milestone he will reach in Test cricket on Wednesday when England play New Zealand in Christchurch. “It will be my 150th Test. We’re fortunate to play so much Test cricket compared to other nations, so you can rattle them up rather quickly. But I’ve had to work hard and overcome different challenges along the way, so I’m very grateful to have had so many chances.”

A minute earlier Root had been uncertain when I asked him if he knew what it would mean were he to score another 625 Test runs. A modest and generous man, Root thought hard and then admitted he had no clue. The answer is that, once those runs have been accumulated, he will become the second highest scorer in Test cricket.




Root warms to his selfless theme. “Cricket is a game of failure because the amount of times you walk off disappointed outweighs the times where you’ve had a great day,” he adds. “But there’s always something else, and someone else, you can celebrate. That’s what makes it so fun. It’s not all about you, it’s about collectively dragging each other over the line.”

England won the first Test in Pakistan by an innings. It was a remarkable victory as Root and Brook chased down Pakistan’s first‑innings score of 556. Yet England collapsed in the next two Tests and lost the series against a previously struggling Pakistan. “They outplayed us in key moments,” Root admits, while pointing out that the second Test in Multan was played on the same wicket used for the opening match. The third Test in Rawalpindi featured a pitch that had been blasted with heaters, and raked heavily.

“They were fast-forward wickets, a day-six pitch on day one for the second Test and then they’d raked it and used their home advantage for the third Test.

“You can understand it as they had not won a Test at home for a long time and they exploited it better than we did. But in those big moments we missed a couple of chances in the field. In those low-scoring games, that can really cost you. But credit to them as their spinners performed exceptionally.”

Considering New Zealand’s achievements in India, Root says: “They played some really good cricket against a very experienced and successful team. I think we were the last team to win in India, in 2012, so New Zealand were incredible. It’s going to be a tough tour and then we play India followed by the Ashes. It will give a really good barometer of where we are and so it’s a mouth-watering 12 months ahead.

“I’d love us to win the Ashes over there. That would mean more to me than anything. The last time England won in Australia was 2010-11 and I was there at the Darren Lehmann Academy in Adelaide. During that Test I was net-bowling against the guys that weren’t playing. I then went to Melbourne to watch the Boxing Day Test match. It was great to watch it unfold and to do something similar would be the ultimate.”

Joe Root: ‘Winning the Ashes in Australia would mean more than anything’

England’s record-breaking batter is set for his 150th Test and, he tells Donald McRae, he will play for as long as he loves the game

www.theguardian.com

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Root doing well and Eng finally winning in Aus will be fantastic. Aus was in transition and Cood did it for Eng. Aus pace attack will have some more miles in their leg by the time Eng arrives in Aus and batting is not going to be settled. There is a chance for Eng to catch Aus in transition and make history.

I loved Root statement that in cricket you are going to have more failures than success on average but you can find occasions to cheer for some one else.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Ya read that interview. Best chance for him to make a mark in Australia.

 

[sweep_shot]

Root has won the ODI WC. He also won a Test series in India (2012 series).

Not much for him to win I guess (apart from a series win in Australia).

 

[Ab Fan]

can anyone post the tons tally for Fab 4(or at least Root, Williamson and Kohli) in Australia?

I think Root has a lot to improve in Australia.

 

[jnaveen1980]

can anyone post the tons tally for Fab 4(or at least Root, Williamson and Kohli) in Australia?

I think Root has a lot to improve in Australia.

Root has zero ton in Australia. He is not going to catch up with Kohli. But he can register his first ton there.

 

[Devadwal]

can anyone post the tons tally for Fab 4(or at least Root, Williamson and Kohli) in Australia?

I think Root has a lot to improve in Australia.

Root - ANDA

Williamson - two

King - seven

 

[Rajdeep]

For any team winning a test series in Australia and India is the pinnacle. I was listening to Simon Doull other day in Sky Sports and he mentioned how NZ win in India is their greatest sporting achievement of all time. Mind you NZ won a WTC finals but still he considered series win in India the biggest.

Posters here downplay the wins in Australia and hype WTC finals bcoz India won 2 consecutive times in Australia. If it was other way around, same poster would have reminded us multiple times that how we can't win in tough Australian conditions.

#FACTS

 

[Varun]

For any team winning a test series in Australia and India is the pinnacle. I was listening to Simon Doull other day in Sky Sports and he mentioned how NZ win in India is their greatest sporting achievement of all time. Mind you NZ won a WTC finals but still he considered series win in India the biggest.

Posters here downplay the wins in Australia and hype WTC finals bcoz India won 2 consecutive times in Australia. If it was other way around, same poster would have reminded us multiple times that how we can't win in tough Australian conditions.

#FACTS

We won in 2018 because there was no Warner, Smith and Bancroft.

We won in 2020 because there was no Bancroft.

If we win in 2024, it will be because there is no Warner and Bancroft.

 

[sweep_shot]

Even if Root doesn't win a series in Australia, Root's legacy shouldn't be tarnished.

He is one of the ATGs.

 

[Varun]

Even if Root doesn't win a series in Australia, Root's legacy shouldn't be tarnished.

He is one of the ATGs.

Forget about winning a series, can he even score runs in them?

 

[Buffet]

First goal for Root/Eng should be to win a test in Aus. They have lost 12 tests out of 13 Root/Eng has played there. It's as bad as Pakistan's record in Aus.

Now, 1 test win may translate into series win and it may be perfect time to catch Aus in transition. Cook did it in 2011, Root should try to do it as well. It's not easy though, Aus at home is formidable even with some new set of players.

 

[mb3407]

Even if Root doesn't win a series in Australia, Root's legacy shouldn't be tarnished.

He is one of the ATGs.

How can one be ATG after failing for so long against their prime nemesis?

 

[jnaveen1980]

How can one be ATG after failing for so long against their prime nemesis?

They are just not nemesis. They have been no.1 team or no.2 team for so long.

 

[Ab Fan]

If he hit a century in Australia and his average doesn’t drop below 50, he will be an ATG for me.

Lower Tier ATG though.

 

[SportsWarrior]

He is probably the best test batter among fab four, due to his immaculate technique in most conditions. So it is perplexing to see him struggle in Australia. May be the pressure of performing gets to him in Australia.

 

[Ab Fan]

First goal for Root/Eng should be to win a test in Aus. They have lost 12 tests out of 13 Root/Eng has played there. It's as bad as Pakistan's record in Aus.

Now, 1 test win may translate into series win and it may be perfect time to catch Aus in transition. Cook did it in 2011, Root should try to do it as well. It's not easy though, Aus at home is formidable even with some new set of players.

English players in last 50 years always leave a gaping hole in their CV.

Botham is widely rated as an ATG all rounder but his performance vs the great West Indies was pretty comical with both bat and bowl. He is simply no match to Kapil, Imran and Hadlee when opponents were Windies.

Anderson has mediocre away record in Australia, South Africa and Sri Lanka.

Root has pretty average record in Australia especially these 50s which will not work in Australia where pitches are usually more balanced than South Africa or England where it is more favoured to fast bowling.

 

[Buffet]

English players in last 50 years always leave a gaping hole in their CV.

Botham is widely rated as an ATG all rounder but his performance vs the great West Indies was pretty comical with both bat and bowl. He is simply no match to Kapil, Imran and Hadlee when opponents were Windies.

Anderson has mediocre away record in Australia, South Africa and Sri Lanka.

Root has pretty average record in Australia especially these 50s which will not work in Australia where pitches are usually more balanced than South Africa or England where it is more favoured to fast bowling.

Root has two issue to be honest. One is not doing anything at home of biggest rival.

Second issue is - All ATG players should have few ATG test series in tough away tours. If you have never done that then you should not be in contention. I mean his peers( Kohli/Smith) have ATG series in Aus, Ind, Eng, SA, NZ etc. Root has zero heavy scoring series. This is top 5 test playing nation. We are only left with bottom 3 and home. I am sorry, that's not greatness. Root is also just one format specialist so it;s like he is great in other formats.

If he scores randon ton in Aus, it will fulfill a check box, but does not make him an ATG. Having some great series where you score heavily in top home countries counts.

Have you come across any ATG in any era who has failed to have single great heavy scoring series in top 5 test venues when playing away? I could understand if you have limited oppurtnuity but Root had the more oppurtunities than everyone else and nearing 150-160 tests now. I can also understand if you are not able to score heavily in one country.

His goal should be to have an ATG series in Aus and if he does that then Eng can even win the series, but winning is not in his hands. Batsmen can't win you series. You will need bowlers to pick 20 wickets. But batsmen can score heavily.

 

[uppercut]

If we win in 2024, it will be because there is no Warner and Bancroft.

Naaah I have a lot of faith in our Inverse Man to come up with some original Asterisks this time. I think he is furiously working on it overtime ....Give him some time

 

[aboveandbeyond]

I expect big things from Root and the boys in the next year. We are prime for the pinnacle of Test cricket.

Our aim is to beat kiwis in their backyard, followed by beating India in the summer tests, and finally peaking in Australia by beating and winning the Ashes.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Whether it is fair or not, England players are ultimately judged in terms of their performances vs Australia in the Ashes.
Winning a Test series in Australia is more important to most English fans than winning a World Cup, which is why Morgan will never be perceived in the same company as captains such as Hutton, Illingworth and Strauss.

Not having scored a century in Australia (with an average in the mid 30s) is quite simply a gaping hole for Root vs other greats of the English game — players can all have a team against whom they don’t perform (eg Warne vs India), but if you’re an English player you don’t want that to be against Australia.

I hope he has a super series in a year’s time as he is a wonderful player.

 

[Technics 1210]

As if success down under is the be all and end all.

A message to Root if you are reading - just focus on enough Test runs to break the all time record.

 

[Romali_rotti]

Well Joe let's see if you get a 100 in Aus first. Should be achievable now that the Aussie quicks are showing kinks in their armour...

 

[atreus]

English players in last 50 years always leave a gaping hole in their CV.

Botham is widely rated as an ATG all rounder but his performance vs the great West Indies was pretty comical with both bat and bowl. He is simply no match to Kapil, Imran and Hadlee when opponents were Windies.

Anderson has mediocre away record in Australia, South Africa and Sri Lanka.

Root has pretty average record in Australia especially these 50s which will not work in Australia where pitches are usually more balanced than South Africa or England where it is more favoured to fast bowling.

all ATGs have a hole or two in their records I feel like, Newzealand for Sobers, Kallis couldn't do much in England, Gavaskar his whole career struggled with England/Newzealand when either were remotely good, Dravid against high speed bounce, Lara against express pace, you really have to Viv or Sachin to have a flawless record.

Anyway, he's already an ATG and top 20 ever for sure, a super series on Australia puts him in contention for, or even in the top 10, let's see how it goes.

 

[atreus]

Root has two issue to be honest. One is not doing anything at home of biggest rival.

Second issue is - All ATG players should have few ATG test series in tough away tours. If you have never done that then you should not be in contention. I mean his peers( Kohli/Smith) have ATG series in Aus, Ind, Eng, SA, NZ etc. Root has zero heavy scoring series. This is top 5 test playing nation. We are only left with bottom 3 and home. I am sorry, that's not greatness. Root is also just one format specialist so it;s like he is great in other formats.

If he scores randon ton in Aus, it will fulfill a check box, but does not make him an ATG. Having some great series where you score heavily in top home countries counts.

Have you come across any ATG in any era who has failed to have single great heavy scoring series in top 5 test venues when playing away? I could understand if you have limited oppurtnuity but Root had the more oppurtunities than everyone else and nearing 150-160 tests now. I can also understand if you are not able to score heavily in one country.

His goal should be to have an ATG series in Aus and if he does that then Eng can even win the series, but winning is not in his hands. Batsmen can't win you series. You will need bowlers to pick 20 wickets. But batsmen can score heavily.

The Wisden Trophy 2015 (Carribean) — 358 runs in 5 innings

Basil'D Oliveira Trophy 2016 (South Africa) – 386 runs in 8 innings, 55 average of

England in Sri Lanka 2021 — 426 runs in 4 innings

England in Newzealand 2022 — 319 runs in 4 innings

in India, he plays as an all rounder and has contributed to 2 defeats, Australia in the only blemish.

 

[Hitman]

Would pakistanis have considered Sachin an ATG if he averaged low 30s in Pakistan after so many apperances and without a single century?

You seriously expect that from sore losers?

 

[BouncerGuy]

Thread is clearly not about Sachin and his records. It is about Joe root and ashes.

Do not derail thread anymore

 

[DeadlyVenom]

This will be a good Ashes series.

If England play their bazball style and have key bowlers like Wood and Archer available then they can beat this aging Aussie side.

 

[Buffet]

The Wisden Trophy 2015 (Carribean) — 358 runs in 5 innings

Basil'D Oliveira Trophy 2016 (South Africa) – 386 runs in 8 innings, 55 average of

England in Sri Lanka 2021 — 426 runs in 4 innings

England in Newzealand 2022 — 319 runs in 4 innings

in India, he plays as an all rounder and has contributed to 2 defeats, Australia in the only blemish.

WI and SL? Seriously. That's what I was talking about. Root does not have against top test nations so you are searchingin WI/SL.

None of the listed series at ATG series like Kohli, Smith had in top 5 test venues. They both had muti[ple ATG series in Ind, Eng, SA, Aus etc... Where they scored heavuly in entire series and not just one ton and then went missing.

 

[Mamoon]

Root - ANDA

Williamson - two

King - seven

Has Kohli’s Test averaged reached a mighty 48 after his recent century?

 

[Mamoon]

As long as Kohli’s doesn’t get his Test average beyond 50 again, he cannot sit on the table of 50+ averaging batsman. As simple as that.

No one gives a flying fig about number of centuries in a particular country.

 

[Mamoon]

Nonetheless, if England are too beat Australia this time around, they have to move on from Stokes, who is a complete liability.

 

[Buffet]

Given aging players and transition, it may be the best oppurtunity for Root/Eng to win test series in Aus. Cook did it for Eng and now it's Root's turn.

 

[Mamoon]

Given aging players and transition, it may be the best oppurtunity for Root/Eng to win test series in Aus. Cook did it for Eng and now it's Root's turn.

Not a level playing field because that England team was significantly stronger than the current England team.

I don’t think England have enough resources to beat Australia even if Root has a big series.

 

[Ab Fan]

Has Kohli’s Test averaged reached a mighty 48 after his recent century?

48-51 is not much of a difference.

7-0 is quite a bit though.

 

[Ab Fan]

all ATGs have a hole or two in their records I feel like, Newzealand for Sobers, Kallis couldn't do much in England, Gavaskar his whole career struggled with England/Newzealand when either were remotely good, Dravid against high speed bounce, Lara against express pace, you really have to Viv or Sachin to have a flawless record.

Anyway, he's already an ATG and top 20 ever for sure, a super series on Australia puts him in contention for, or even in the top 10, let's see how it goes.

Root is not an ATG though because he has a poor record in the country that matters most. Not even one hundred out of 15 test puts him a level or two below true ATGs.

 

[mb3407]

48-51 is not much of a difference.

7-0 is quite a bit though.

The premier batsman scoring 0 or 30-60 is the same as the team would most likely lose.

At least the centuries give a serious chance of victory.

 

[Buffet]

Not a level playing field because that England team was significantly stronger than the current England team.

I don’t think England have enough resources to beat Australia even if Root has a big series.

Agree, Cook had better resource available.

But it will depend on how Aus is doing as well. Aus has looked a bit shaky in recent times due to aging side. Batting has been an issue for sure despite bowling being very good, but bowlers will be older by then and I think these 4 bowlers can't be effective the same way after 18 months. Aus not trying out new players may catch up and put them in trouble in next Ashes.

Hoping for Root/Eng to win series there. It will reignite Ashes when it's held in Aus. Right now, it's competetive only when it happens in Eng.

 

[Buffet]

"It's the one series where you're desperate to go and stamp your mark on it and play with authority and have that big series like Cooky had " - Root

"That's the dream. "The most important thing is weight of runs. To be successful there, generally sides have to make big scores " -- Root

"I probably wanted it too much," he said of previous tours. "I was too desperate, and it had probably a negative impact on the way I played. I put too much pressure on myself.

'I wanted it too much': Root faces up to Ashes drought | cricket.com.au

Having not been able to score a century in five previous tours to Australia, England's skipper is…

www.cricket.com.au

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Those comments were from the last tour. Root desperately wants to score big runs in Aus and cares a lot. Understandble, because if you are from Eng or Aus then not able to do well in away Ashes is a big question mark. It defines greatness for players from both countries. Take example of Warne, He failed big time in India and WI. If he had failed in Eng also then his stature would have been a lot lower. Yah, Eng was not that strong team but for better or worse, you got to step up against your biggest rival in their den.

Root needs to simply focus on his batting and go really big in at least one tough away series. He is too good a batsman to not have a single ATG away series against tough home teams. Doing it in Aus will be fantastic and it may even help Eng win series in Aus.

Root is not captain anymore so less pressure. No need to overthink, just bat and score heavily in series. Great tradition of Ashes deserve some fight by Eng in Aus shore and I think Root has to be main person to go big in series. Not one ton, that won't do much. Have a heavy scoring series.

Unlike other posters, I don't care too much about one ton in Aus. I care about having a great series in Aus. That's what help his team.

 

[The Bald Eagle]

Joe Root and this current England team look too scared when they play in Australia

 

[Devadwal]

Has Kohli’s Test averaged reached a mighty 48 after his recent century?

Kohli is on the way to winning the 3rd series in a row in australia.

You and your new maseeha root can't even think in the dream .

 

[Buffet]

Joe Root and this current England team look too scared when they play in Australia

Time to be brave in the nest series in Aus and win it. At least show some fight and draw it.

 

[Mamoon]

Kohli is on the way to winning the 3rd series in a row in australia.

You and your new maseeha root can't even think in the dream .

Australia will win this series.

 

[Mamoon]

48-51 is not much of a difference.

7-0 is quite a bit though.

No number 3/4 can be considered an ATG Test batsman with a <50 career average.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Do you agree with this rating?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/cricket/article-14127281/England-Australia-squad-ratings-Ashes.html

England and Australia squad ratings: Which team holds the Ashes edge with under a year to go?​

 

[jnaveen1980]

I predict Harry Brook having a box office Ashes down under

 

[Ab Fan]

No number 3/4 can be considered an ATG Test batsman with a <50 career average.

Greatness is not determined by just stats.

Few runs lesser and likes of Viv or Border won’t have been ATG by your logic which is absurd to say.

 

[Buffet]

I predict Harry Brook having a box office Ashes down under

It will be awesome if he has a big series there. I want to see Eng doing well in Aus next time. If Root and Brook can have a big series, I can see Eng winning the series.

 

[Mamoon]

Kohli is on the way to winning the 3rd series in a row in australia.

Running away like a coward after 1 Test in 2020/2021 where his team was humiliated counts as a series win for Kohli?

The Indian delusion needs to be studied.

 

[Mamoon]

Greatness is not determined by just stats.

Few runs lesser and likes of Viv or Border won’t have been ATG by your logic which is absurd to say.

Kohli is not a Test ATG. His Test career went down like the Twin Towers on 9/11, and it is too late in his career to make up for it.

ATG white ball batsman, ATG overall as well, but not an ATG Test batsman.

 

[Mamoon]

Kohli is not only struggling to average 50, he is also a 1,000 runs away from the 10k mark and he is 36. It is hilarious how overrated he is in Tests.

 

[Mamoon]

Would pakistanis have considered Sachin an ATG if he averaged low 30s in Pakistan after so many apperances and without a single century?

@mb3407 not sure why this post was removed.

Tendulkar was bang average vs Pakistan in Test cricket as it is. An ATG by any means, but Pakistanis don’t need to be in awe of him because Pakistani bowlers reduced him to a 40 odd averaging batsman in Test cricket.

 

[Buffet]

Kohli ... It is hilarious how overrated he is in Tests.

Kohli, Cook, Smith, Amla are rated for this ....

If you can go big regularly away against top teams, you get rated high.

 

[Ab Fan]

Kohli is not a Test ATG. His Test career went down like the Twin Towers on 9/11, and it is too late in his career to make up for it.

ATG white ball batsman, ATG overall as well, but not an ATG Test batsman.

Yeah he may not be but I don’t see how Root is one. He lacks impact away from home vs top teams and it’s terrible in Australia, a venue where Kohli hit 7 test hundreds.

 

[Bhaag Viru Bhaag]

It's no secret that for Aussie and English players, the Ashes isn't just a cricket series, it's the ultimate showdown, making every other Test series feel like a friendly backyard game.

 

[Buffet]

Yeah he may not be but I don’t see how Root is one. He lacks impact away from home vs top teams and it’s terrible in Australia, a venue where Kohli hit 7 test hundreds.

Both can be fixed in next Aus series in one shot.

Aus has aging bowlers and most bowlers may be wrong side of 30s by then. Perfect chance for Root to go big in series to have impact away from home vs top teams and fix his record in Aus in one go.

Also, rightly or wrongly, Aus and Eng players are always going to be judged by how they do in away test in Ashes. So 3 boxes ticked in one series for Root here.

Biggest oppurtunity for Root is the next Aus series. A perfect set up to tackle all three blackmarks.

 

[Mamoon]

Kohli, Cook, Smith, Amla are rated for this ....

If you can go big regularly away against top teams, you get rated high.


View attachment 148081

Steve Smith is the best Test batsman of the last 50 years. No debate there.

Cook as well as Graeme Smith for me are one of the greatest openers ever, 45+ averages for openers is on par with 50+ averages for middle-order batsmen, especially when you’re opening in England and South Africa, two extremely challenging venues for openers.

Amla is not even close to being a Test legend. Less than 10k runs and less than 50 average as well as some really poor performances at home.

Grouping all away venues together hides more than it reveals. Kohli is basically an Australia bully. He averages 38 in Tests in England, New Zealand and South Africa collectively after 30 Tests.

 

[Mamoon]

Yeah he may not be but I don’t see how Root is one. He lacks impact away from home vs top teams and it’s terrible in Australia, a venue where Kohli hit 7 test hundreds.

If Roots ends up with 50+ average and is number 1 or 2 on all time scorers list, then there is no debate.

 

[Devadwal]

Y

Running away like a coward after 1 Test in 2020/2021 where his team was humiliated counts as a series win for Kohli?

The Indian delusion needs to be studied.

Family is above anything but you'll never understand because i have seen you dark reality how you abused @Rana family infront of us.

So don't want to listen this lecture from you . Keep quite

 

[Mamoon]

Y

Family is above anything but you'll never understand because i have seen you dark reality how you abused @Rana family infront of us.

So don't want to listen this lecture from you . Keep quite

I don’t give a flying fig about why Kohli returned home. I’m not interested in that.

My point is, he only played 1 Test in that series and India lost that Test. He had as much contribution to that series victory as you did, so claiming that he is on course to winning a third series in Australia is pure comedy.

 

[Buffet]

Cook is vastly underrted by Eng fans. An opener with so many tons in den of top 5 test playing countries. Absolute champion and I rate him very high.

Steve Smith is the best Test batsman of the last 50 years. No debate there.

Cook as well as Graeme Smith for me are one of the greatest openers ever, 45+ averages for openers is on par with 50+ averages for middle-order batsmen, especially when you’re opening in England and South Africa, two extremely challenging venues for openers.

Amla is not even close to being a Test legend. Less than 10k runs and less than 50 average as well as some really poor performances at home.

Grouping all away venues together hides more than it reveals. Kohli is basically an Australia bully. He averages 38 in Tests in England, New Zealand and South Africa collectively after 30 Tests.

All of them are bigger legend than Root right now and that's due to having so many tons playing away against top teams.

Anderson/Root can win volume game, but to actually be top, you got to take 5-fers or score tons against top teams in their den. Anderson retired , lets see if Root can break the ceiling in quality. In quantity both are right uo there.

I know home track bullying or bullying bottom 3 test teams is also important, but that's never been the benchmark of greatness in test cricket.

I am backing Root to have a great big series in Aus. No Eng/Aus batsmen can't be rated as great without having great away ashes. Not just one ton, that will be just a tick mark . I want him to have a real big series in Aus.

Grouping is actually helping Root here. Otherwise Aus has been always the top 3 team during his career, best test team in history of cricket and rival of Eng. I am not judging Root entirely on performacne in Aus. Non-English players can have poor Aus series and still be rated as great. That's not the case for English players.

Bullying your toughest opposition in their den counts for a whole lot more than any volume of runs/wickets.

 

[mominsaigol]

Y

Family is above anything but you'll never understand because i have seen you dark reality how you abused @Rana family infront of us.

So don't want to listen this lecture from you . Keep quite

Family is above anything

This i agree with. It's why I have alot of respect for Travis Head. He skipped the Pakistan series and made sure his fatherly duties took precedence over cricketing affairs.

 

[jnaveen1980]

Bullying your toughest opposition in their den counts for a whole lot more than any volume of runs/wickets.

He was timid against Aussies. He doesn't have that stage presence that say guys like Kevin pietersen had. In 2014 Johnson tretaed him like a kinder gartener and he had no answer other than uncomfortable smile. Sure he has come a long way in the last 10 years. But he can stamp his authority in this series.

 

[gibsyhesperis]

Both can be fixed in next Aus series in one shot.

Aus has aging bowlers and most bowlers may be wrong side of 30s by then. Perfect chance for Root to go big in series to have impact away from home vs top teams and fix his record in Aus in one go.

Also, rightly or wrongly, Aus and Eng players are always going to be judged by how they do in away test in Ashes. So 3 boxes ticked in one series for Root here.

Biggest oppurtunity for Root is the next Aus series. A perfect set up to tackle all three blackmarks.

He’ll never have a better chance as the Aus bowling attack does look like it’s beginning to show some cracks and they’ll all be a year older.
To his credit, Root acknowledges this one blemish in a stellar career — but he needs to correct it if he wants to be considered alongside the legendary English players such as Hobbs with nine centuries and Hammond with seven. Gower scored five as did Cook (as an opener !).

 

[Buffet]

He’ll never have a better chance as the Aus bowling attack does look like it’s beginning to show some cracks and they’ll all be a year older.
To his credit, Root acknowledges this one blemish in a stellar career — but he needs to correct it if he wants to be considered alongside the legendary English players such as Hobbs with nine centuries and Hammond with seven. Gower scored five as did Cook (as an opener !).

Yes, Root said in interview that no Eng player can be considered great unless you perform in Aus. So he is aware of this. it's common sense to be honest, no one need to say. You got to perform in den of your biggest rival to be rated among the best English players.

Also, agree that Aus will have the weakest bowling in next series due to aging or new bowlers. He did have to face great Aus bowling unit so far.

 

[Buffet]

He was timid against Aussies. He doesn't have that stage presence that say guys like Kevin pietersen had. In 2014 Johnson tretaed him like a kinder gartener and he had no answer other than uncomfortable smile. Sure he has come a long way in the last 10 years. But he can stamp his authority in this series.

2014, yes. I remember that, but it's done and dusted.

Next series will have all Aus bowlers in the wrong side of 30s or it will be some newbies. A perfect chance to go big in series with couple of tons and help your team win series there. Brook also needs to score heavily. One batsman can't do it all.

 

[atreus]

Root is not an ATG though because he has a poor record in the country that matters most. Not even one hundred out of 15 test puts him a level or two below true ATGs.

depends on what the terminology means for you, how many batters do you consider ATG? and whose the worst of them, because by this line of thought even the likes of Dravid and Punter won't reach the ATG status, perhaps you've more difficult standards for ATG than I do.

 

[atreus]

WI and SL? Seriously. That's what I was talking about. Root does not have against top test nations so you are searchingin WI/SL.

None of the listed series at ATG series like Kohli, Smith had in top 5 test venues. They both had muti[ple ATG series in Ind, Eng, SA, Aus etc... Where they scored heavuly in entire series and not just one ton and then went missing.

Kohli won't perform there lol. and England would've lost both tours if Root didn't perform.

I didn't know 55 avg in South Africa and 100+ in NZ don't count as ATG tours, especially since Root actually did lead his country to wins away from home, regardless I'm not really in the mood to entertain a Kohli>Root discussion, because Kohli is a lot of things but better than Root, let's not pretend his average isn't absolutely boosted by murdering poor attacks on favourable pitches at home, while Root has the toughest home conditions in the world but also Kohli had a 2 year period where he was wonderful and had some great tours away from home, other than that he has just sucked, pre 2016 he was inconsistent and only really went up to some runfests and post 2019 he has been a joke batsmen who won't make any team's batting currently bar...hmmm, maybe he can replace Ollie Pope? he has been poor for the vast majority of his career.

Idk why you repeatedly mention Smith, everyone knows Smith is a class above.

 

[DeadlyVenom]

Root has two paths to be a tier 1 ATG.

1. Maintain a 50+ career average and score big in Australia to win an overseas Ashes.

2. Maintain 50+ career average and overtake Tendus record.

If he fails to meet one of those two but maintains a 50+ average he will be a lesser tier ATG.

If his average slips under 50 then he will move further down tiers.

 

[atreus]

Cook is vastly underrted by Eng fans. An opener with so many tons in den of top 5 test playing countries. Absolute champion and I rate him very high.




All of them are bigger legend than Root right now and that's due to having so many tons playing away against top teams.

Anderson/Root can win volume game, but to actually be top, you got to take 5-fers or score tons against top teams in their den. Anderson retired , lets see if Root can break the ceiling in quality. In quantity both are right uo there.

I know home track bullying or bullying bottom 3 test teams is also important, but that's never been the benchmark of greatness in test cricket.

I am backing Root to have a great big series in Aus. No Eng/Aus batsmen can't be rated as great without having great away ashes. Not just one ton, that will be just a tick mark . I want him to have a real big series in Aus.

Grouping is actually helping Root here. Otherwise Aus has been always the top 3 team during his career, best test team in history of cricket and rival of Eng. I am not judging Root entirely on performacne in Aus. Non-English players can have poor Aus series and still be rated as great. That's not the case for English players.

Bullying your toughest opposition in their den counts for a whole lot more than any volume of runs/wickets.

Graeme Smith averages 37.9 at home when Bangladesh and Zimbabwe are removed...39 in Australia...35 in India... only performed in Australia in a series where McGrath and Warne had retired (Again, I actually watch the game). that's 72 of his 117 games and three conditions where he was medicore...he only did well in England and West Indies Pre-Dukes and before good bowlers started rising again...saying he is even at the level with Root, actually forget Root, to suggest he is even on level with Williamson is insulting, he is about Cook level at most...

Amla I'm not even gonna bother with Amla, he won't average 40 or 45 even today, can't perform against the current attacks at all.

anyway, English fans such as me don't rate Cook for some simple reasons

1. We really value the ability to play Swing/Seam greatly, Root might be the Greatest player of it...ever? the 4 hundreds series against Bumrah in classical English conditions, the 2015 Ashes, Basil D Oliveira trophy 2015 and 2017 and so forth to us is what Batsmenship is about, Cook was...always kind of stiff against true great pace bowling, robotic, slow and did not really have the talent. He was a greater Batsmen of spin and...that just doesn't matter to us over here as much as fast bowling does.

2. Have you ever heard of Sir Len Hutton and Ken Barrington? Barrington has the statistical edge in every way, but Hutton is considered the vastly superior player, why? because we here are very conscious of the era the cricketers play in, for example Hutton is rated as a hero because he performed against the greatest bowling attack of all time in the lowest scoring decade in recent memory, 50s England was extremely difficult to bat in, 50s Australia was like current South Africa but with an ATG attack and thus our batters from 50s are rated much higher than 60s.

This is a constant concept that you've to understand, this is why English fans often rate Trueman over Bedser, but same way we rate Gooch over Cook a lot, or Hutton over Barrington, or Hobbs over Sutcliffe, it's a fundamental part of how we view cricket. Please understand and acknowledge the cultural difference here.

anyway, I hope he has a top series in Australia, he has already averaged 45 in India which has been hell for touring Batsmen and has match winning centuries there, one of the best ever in NZ and South Africa, it only leaves Australia, if he has that I'm willing to rate him among the Lara/Hammonds/Gavaskars of the world.

 

[Buffet]

Kohli won't perform there lol. and England would've lost both tours if Root didn't perform.

I didn't know 55 avg in South Africa and 100+ in NZ don't count as ATG tours, especially since Root actually did lead his country to wins away from home, regardless I'm not really in the mood to entertain a Kohli>Root discussion, because Kohli is a lot of things but better than Root, let's not pretend his average isn't absolutely boosted by murdering poor attacks on favourable pitches at home, while Root has the toughest home conditions in the world but also Kohli had a 2 year period where he was wonderful and had some great tours away from home, other than that he has just sucked, pre 2016 he was inconsistent and only really went up to some runfests and post 2019 he has been a joke batsmen who won't make any team's batting currently bar...hmmmm, maybe he can replace Ollie Pope? he has been poor for the vast majority of his career.

Idk why you repeatedly mention Smith, everyone knows Smith is a class above.

I am not comparing Root with anyone. I am simply saying that depsite such a long career, he has zero ATG test series in any good home teams so far. Listing few accompishments, sure he has it but none one of them are ATG series like his peers had, that's all. Listing Smith/Kohli/Warner etc was to show that they had lots of ATG away test series in Eng/SA/Aus/NZ etc. Root has zero so far.

Toughest conditions for Root and easiest runs for Kohli? I am not sure if you have been watching any cricket recently. Ind had 26 runs per wicket and Eng has 31 runs per wicket in last 5 years. Kohli's home ground is second toughest place to abt in recent years. Eng is a drastically easier place to bat than India.

 

[atreus]

I am not comparing Root with anyone. I am simply saying that depsite such a long career, he has zero ATG test series in any good home teams so far. Listing few accompishments, sure he has it but none one of them are ATG series like his peers had, that's all. Listing Smith/Kohli/Warner etc was to show that they had lots of ATG away test series in Eng/SA/Aus/NZ etc. Root has zero so far.

Toughest conditions for Root and easiest runs for Kohli? I am not sure if you have been watching any cricket recently. Ind had 26 runs per wicket and Eng has 31 runs per wicket in last 5 years. Kohli's home ground is second toughest place to abt in recent years. Eng is a drastically easier place to bat than India.

View attachment 148093

That is largely because India has declined in term of Batsmenship, Pujara is gone, new guys are inconsistent and Kohli has been the worst specialist Batsmen in the world for the last 5 years, more fair would be a 2010s where Kohli was scoring heaps of runs at home, India was significantly easier when Kohli was performing.

Now regarding England — the 2022 and 2023 summers led to flat wickets, 2021 and 2024 have been considerably difficult for the batters and Root has done amazingly there, the 4 hundreds series against Bumrah is far superior to anything Kohli has in India.

 

[atreus]

also If Root's 2016 SA isn't an ATG series or his last two tours to NZ aren't enough for ATG class than Kohli doesn't have an ATG series either btw

 

[Buffet]

(Again, I actually watch the game).

And yet you are writing that Root has tougher home gorunds than Kohli?

I was not talkign about Smith(SA), I was talking about Smith(Aus) in above post. I don't really rate any one who played more than 60-70 years ago except Bradman due to being so much better than peers. It's fine if you rate or anyone rates them.

In the last 50 years, Botham is the only ATG by Eng. He failed against the best team of his era but had a gun all around game in his first half. Top tier all rounder. Just below that level, Anderson and Root have volme but not quality. Hope Root goes big in entire series, not just one ton like his career , in Aus. That will fix lots of blackmark for Root. ATG series and against Aus, it will be enough to push him for higher level given he plays for Eng.

 

[Buffet]

That is largely because India has declined in term of Batsmenship, Pujara is gone, new guys are inconsistent


Now regarding England — the 2022 and 2023 summers led to flat wickets, 2021 and 2024 have been considerably difficult for the batters and Root has done amazingly there, the 4 hundreds series against Bumrah is far superior to anything Kohli has in India.

You can see 10 years of runs per wicket. Eng was not harder place to bat than India. That's pretty much entire career of Root.

 

[atreus]

And yet you are writing that Root has tougher home gorunds than Kohli?

I was not talkign about Smith(SA), I was talking about Smith(Aus) in above post. I don't really rate any one who played more than 60-70 years ago except Bradman due to being so much better than peers. It's fine if you rate or anyone rates them.

In the last 50 years, Botham is the only ATG by Eng. He failed against the best team of his era but had a gun all around game in his first half. Top tier all rounder. Just below that level, Anderson and Root have volme but not quality. Hope Root goes big in entire series, not just one ton like his career , in Aus. That will fix lots of blackmark for Root. ATG series and against Aus, it will be enough to push him for higher level given he plays for Eng.

I was commenting on their overall career, I remember Kohli murdering hopeless Windies and Lankan Pacers on flat wickets that Root doesn't get to do because those games are competitive in England.

Well that doesn't even make sense, Hutton's arguably the Greatest Batsmen but I'm not gonna bother too much with that.

Nah, they've the quality, or Atleast Root does, 2nd best of his generation in India, top 5 Touring batters to South Africa (Tendulkar/Kohli/Hobbs/Waugh being top 4), led his series to away wins and having some amazing way performances, only Australia is lacking. Also, Root > Botham, Botham after like 26-27 of age was often a liability to the side.

 

[Buffet]

Kohli decling or Pujara retiring impacting average is just non-sense.

We can take out India and Eng both from equation and then see how all others teams have batted in Ind/Eng.

It's clear that Root batted in far easier home conditions than Kohli and not other way around. I am not sure where this idea comes that Eng is harder place to bat than India.

 

[atreus]

You can see 10 years of runs per wicket. Eng was not harder place to bat than India. That's pretty much entire career of Root.

View attachment 148094

India has an ATG home attack with the leading spinners, but let's go this route, show me the statistics of these teams at home so their respective bowling attacks, where India is obviously far superior, is neutralized

proceed

 

[atreus]

Also, India's stats in India in last ten years even after recent decline

 

[Buffet]

Anyway, let's not derail the thread with comaprisons.

Root has three black mark to qualify for a lower tier ATG in test format,

1. Very few away tons against top home teams. Just 6 tons despite playing the most. Greats have lot more than that.
2. No ATG series away in any tough tour so far. All great players have many where they score 2-3 tons in those tours.
3. Lacking performance against biggest rivals in their home. No Eng/Aus players can be considered great without performing in away Ashes. One scratchy ton won't fix this. I don't see not having ton in Aus as big issue to be honest. I see no great series in Aus as huge issue for Root. What kind of great English batsman has no huge series in Aus?

If he gets couple of tons in next Ashes in Aus, pretty much all these points gets covered and his total away tons in Aus/Ind/SA/NZ/Eng will look a bit closer to his peers. Right now gap is just too big.

This era has produced only one ATG test batsman, that's Smith. Then for all formats, it's Kohli. Root is in contention for test format and for that next series in Aus will define Root's legacy.

Very very good batsman in the test format. Falling a bit short. Over all he does not have a shot for ATG batsman due to being limited in shorter formats. So needs to show up in test with quality.

 

[atreus]

India stats in last 10 years

England stats in England last 10 years

Hmmm Interesting, it looks like Ashwin/Jadeja are impactful at home.

@Buffet also, Don't you know that rank turners are only difficult if the opposition has good spinners btw? same way Greentop like English ones and dukes are only difficult if the opposition has good pacers, what team in last 10 years has a good spinner bar Australia and India?