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Joe Root is the most overrated Test cricketer in the world today by a country mile

Aman

Aman

Test Captain
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Unlike Smith, Kohli and Kane, there has never been a point where he has dominated.

And if an Indian had a split like Root, he would be called a HTB (9 and 3 - one of which was in WI).

Then there's his conversion issues. No elite player should fail to convert as badly as Root does.

It's all hype and potential with him. Had he played for anyone other than England, Pakistan (on here) he wouldn't even be rated that highly.

Australian and SA fans would slaughter him for his inability to convert. If he played for any other teams, he simply wouldn't even register. He would be second or third tier with Bravo and Babar.

Of course that doesn't mean he can't be top of the line as he has the potential, but as is, he definitely isn't IMO. Too many issues with him (outside of technique) and he doesn't score as heavily as the others. He doesn't carry the batting like the other 3 either.
 
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I agree he is a bit overhyped especially when people say he is the best batsman in the world.

Root is a top-class player, but the worst of the Fab 4 when it comes to batting.
 
he is one of the best batsman across all formats and dominates all opposition in all conditions. his only problem so far is that he gets out between 50 and 100 a lot which is not the end of the world when you are as young as he is.

he is a world class batsman and not overrated at all. he will go on to score 25+ hundreds in both formats. certainly the best english batsman of all time. it is very harsh to call him overrated. yes he is not as good as kohli but hardly anyone is.
 
Leo23 said:
he is one of the best batsman across all formats and dominates all opposition in all conditions. his only problem so far is that he gets out between 50 and 100 a lot which is not the end of the world when you are as young as he is.

he is a world class batsman and not overrated at all. he will go on to score 25+ hundreds in both formats. certainly the best english batsman of all time. it is very harsh to call him overrated. yes he is not as good as kohli but hardly anyone is.
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There has never been a period of time where he has dominated like Smith, Kohli and Kane. Then there's his conversion issues which are unbefitting of an elite player. Can't forget his home and away century split either.
 
Rayyman said:
I agree he is a bit overhyped especially when people say he is the best batsman in the world.

Root is a top-class player, but the worst of the Fab 4 when it comes to batting.
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I think he has potential to surpass Kane. Smith and Kohli are a level to far for him IMHO.

He avoids criticism because the lower order usually bail England out when the top order fails.
 
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Aman said:
I think he has potential to surpass Kane. Smith and Kohli are a level to far for him IMHO.

He avoids criticism because the lower order usually bail England out when the top order fails.
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Ofc Smith is better in Tests, but I think Root will end up the better LOI player as the latter is stronger at accelerating.
 
Rayyman said:
Ofc Smith is better in Tests, but I think Root will end up the better LOI player as the latter is stronger at accelerating.
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This is purely on Tests.

Root is probably already a better ODI batsmen, although Smith did guide Aus to a WC... so you could say that trumps anything Root has done or ever will do in that format.

Kohli is ahead of all of them in LOI. I don't think the other three will finish as ATGs in LOI IMO.
 
He's a top batsman, ahead of Williamson and Smith in LOIs. He will get many chances to better his relatively lackluster away record.
 
Aman said:
This is purely on Tests.

Root is probably already a better ODI batsmen, although Smith did guide Aus to a WC... so you could say that trumps anything Root has done or ever will do in that format.

Kohli is ahead of all of them in LOI. I don't think the other three will finish as ATGs in LOI IMO.
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I'd say Root and Kohli are at the same level in Tests. Kane is slightly ahead of them both, but Smith is way ahead of all of them.
 
Sachin136 said:
He's a top batsman, ahead of Williamson and Smith in LOIs. He will get many chances to better his relatively lackluster away record.
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Root does play a lot of ODIs on the flattest wickets in the world.
 
I guess that a Test match batting average of 53.5 compels many people to rate him quite highly.
 
James said:
I guess that a Test match batting average of 53.5 compels many people to rate him quite highly.
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Not saying that he isn't good, just grossly overrated.

Do you think someone who fails to convert as often as Root does deserves to considered among the best in the world? He hasn't dominated either, and again his abysmal spread of centuries.

Pujara was in a similar position but people wrote him off as a HTB because most of his tons were in India. Why is Root exempt from it when he's played long enough and has shown he struggles to convert and struggles to score 100s away from home.

He has 3 tons away - one against the WI the other against India in a very chancy innings. Then there's his innings in the First Test against SA where he must of had a dozen or more lives in his 100.
 
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Chief Destroyer said:
Agreed. It's mostly been soft runs thus far barring a few innings here and there.
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Gets away with it because he plays for England and has an incredibly strong lower order which saves England time and time again.

He's never truly had to carry the batting like Smith, Kohli or Kane.
 
Aman said:
Gets away with it because he plays for England and has an incredibly strong lower order which saves England time and time again.

He's never truly had to carry the batting like Smith, Kohli or Kane.
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Kohli has never had to carry the batting in Tests. Even in Australia, Vijay and Rahane were playing well too.
 
I think he's a good batsman and the most naturally talented that England has produced since David Gower. However in terms of achievements and contributions he is still way off the S-Class Cook/KP bracket, both of whom would be pushing to get into an all-time England XI. Root is nowhere near that level at the moment - mainly due to his conversion rate, although there are theories that this is more to do with his chronic lower back issues than his concentration, so whether this metric will ever improve I don't know.
 
James said:
I think he's a good batsman and the most naturally talented that England has produced since David Gower. However in terms of achievements and contributions he is still way off the S-Class Cook/KP bracket, both of whom would be pushing to get into an all-time England XI. Root is nowhere near that level at the moment - mainly due to his conversion rate, although there are theories that this is more to do with his chronic lower back issues than his concentration, so whether this metric will ever improve I don't know.
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Can someone who struggles to convert be considered among the best batsmen in the world? Yes or no.
 
Aman said:
Can someone who struggles to convert be considered among the best batsmen in the world? Yes or no.
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Normally no. But all the genuine greats have retired. Who else is left? From what I can see, only Smith and Williamson are better than him in Tests.
 
James said:
Normally no. But all the genuine greats have retired. Who else is left? From what I can see, only Smith and Williamson are better than him in Tests.
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You're right about there not being many quality batsmen left. But I would put Kohli ahead as well, he seems to have found his Test game and tends to turn starts into match winning knocks. Then there's Warner and QdK who are both genuine match winners. Amla and AB would be there but they've fallen away.
 
He's a quality batsman.

Possesses a fluent technique, resolute defensive game, and ability to soak pressure. BUT his conversion rate does need work.

I thought he was wonderful in the away series against IND while handling Ashwin+Jadeja, so he's certainly not an incomplete batsman feasting on home pitches.
 
Aman said:
Not saying that he isn't good, just grossly overrated.

Do you think someone who fails to convert as often as Root does deserves to considered among the best in the world? He hasn't dominated either, and again his abysmal spread of centuries.

Pujara was in a similar position but people wrote him off as a HTB because most of his tons were in India. Why is Root exempt from it when he's played long enough and has shown he struggles to convert and struggles to score 100s away from home.

He has 3 tons away - one against the WI the other against India in a very chancy innings. Then there's his innings in the First Test against SA where he must of had a dozen or more lives in his 100.
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unfair if you wont call other batsmen out.

remember that Tendulkar knock in SA around 2011 where he hit 160 odd? he was not given out lbw on 8, dropped on 20 something, and not given out caught behind in the 40s. people still claimed it was one of the greatest knocks ever because Steyn was bowling like a maniac that spell.
 
Disagree.

Root is the best batsman in the world. Period. He is brilliant in ALL formats (T20, ODI, tests). He is brilliant in ALL conditions (Aus, UAE, Saffers). What is there not to respect?
 
Disagree. He is brilliant in all 3 formats, highly consistent across all conditions. Potential English legend if not ATG
 
The Googly said:
Disagree.

Root is the best batsman in the world. Period. He is brilliant in ALL formats (T20, ODI, tests). He is brilliant in ALL conditions (Aus, UAE, Saffers). What is there not to respect?
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This folks right here is why he is grossly overrated. Root is nowhere near being the best batsmen in the world. Also, please check out Joe Root's record in NZ, Aus and Bangladesh.
 
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He has a great record in the UAE, India, South Africa and the WI's away from home which is not too bad. Needs a big tour in AUS though, hasn't done so well there. England in general overly rate their stars but the thing is he's very important to the England batting team, however; I rate Cook as their best and most valuable batsman.

Looking at his record it's only in NZ and AUS where he has been terrible, played 2 Tests in BD but that's a small sample and no one cares about BD anyway. Root is more of those consistent blokes rather then a batsman who'd play an impact knock home or away. But definitely world class and up there with the best, is he no.1 ? I wouldn't say so.
 
shaz619 said:
He has a great record in the UAE, India, South Africa and the WI's away from home which is not too bad. Needs a big tour in AUS though, hasn't done so well there. England in general overly rate their stars but the thing is he's very important to the England batting team, however; I rate Cook as their best and most valuable batsman.

Looking at his record it's only in NZ and AUS where he has been terrible, played 2 Tests in BD but that's a small sample and no one cares about BD anyway. Root is more of those consistent blokes rather then a batsman who'd play an impact knock home or away. But definitely world class and up there with the best, is he no.1 ? I wouldn't say so.
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How can you rank someone among the best when they struggle to convert and have such a horrible home and away split? He's not a bigger match winner than Smith, Kohli, Warner or QdK. Kane is also a better batting leader but he doesn't have a team who can take advantage of his contributions.

Scoring big runs and winning runs is far more valuable than consistently scoring pretty 50s.
 
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I don't think his record in NZ and Bangladesh will haunt him, as long as he considerably improves his performances in Australia. Rightly or wrongly England cricketers are more fondly remembered if they deliver the goods in the Ashes - particularly Down Under, where many cricketers (English and otherwise) have come a cropper.
 
Aman said:
How can you rank someone among the best when they struggle to convert and have such a horrible home and away split? He's not a bigger match winner than Smith, Kohli, Warner or QdK. Kane is also a better batting leader but he doesn't have a team who can take advantage of his contributions.

Scoring big runs and winning matches is far more valuable than consistently scoring pretty 50s.
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Correction*

It's annoying when people put him on the pedestal when he's no where deserving of the title. Not even top 5 IMHO.
 
Aman said:
How can you rank someone among the best when they struggle to convert and have such a horrible home and away split? He's not a bigger match winner than Smith, Kohli, Warner or QdK. Kane is also a better batting leader but he doesn't have a team who can take advantage of his contributions.

Scoring big runs and winning runs is far more valuable than consistently scoring pretty 50s.
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It's not a bad split when it's only NZ and AUS where he has struggled, so he's not in your top 5? KW is better, Kohli is an overly rated Test batsman, QDK is decent and Smith is amazing. Consistency is valuable and he's won many games for his country but is no KP, away from home not many of these blokes have had an impact which sets them apart from the others
 
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James said:
I don't think his record in NZ and Bangladesh will haunt him, as long as he considerably improves his performances in Australia. Rightly or wrongly England cricketers are more fondly remembered if they deliver the goods in the Ashes - particularly Down Under, where many cricketers (English and otherwise) have come a cropper.
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True, it's a big series for him; if he can perform there and maybe win a Test as well it would make a great case for being the best in the world
 
shaz619 said:
It's not a bad split when it's only NZ and AUS where he has struggled, so he's not in your top 5? KW is better, Kohli is an overly rated Test batsman, QDK is decent and Smith is amazing. Consistency is valuable and he's won many games for his country but is no KP, away from home not many of these blokes have had an impact which sets them apart from the others
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He's 9-3.

9 centuries at home and 3 away.

One of them came against the WI.
 
Aman said:
Kohli won more matches for India on his own in their last home season than Root has in his entire career.
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which matches ?
Performed against SA when series was already won in first 2 matches and 1st innings of 3rd match. Performed against NZ but some other Indian batsmen played more important innings and If i am not wrong Rahane had a better series than him.

He has never won a test match on his own apart from may be second test against England that too India would have won without him.. He is King Kohli! King of soft runs in test cricket. Complete opposite to what he is in odis..
 
I am a big fan of him but I get this sort of cowardly vibe from him if am honest. I think he has more ability and fluency than Virat Kohli but he doesn't have the assertive batting style that Smith and Kohli do...In that sense, he's more similar to Kane Williamson. However, he's got more ability than any of the fab 4, very good stats (the Aus stats I'd imagine he will definitely rectify) and I would rate him joint with Kohli while slightly above Kane....Steve Smith is just too far ahead of any of them however.
 
Smith in my opinion is a flat track bully. He plays on flat tracks in australia and failed everytime there was a bit lateral movement when Australia toured England in 2015. The double hundred he got at lords was a flat pitch. IMO his stats are not a true reflection.
 
SarfiBabarHaris said:
which matches ?
Performed against SA when series was already won in first 2 matches and 1st innings of 3rd match. Performed against NZ but some other Indian batsmen played more important innings and If i am not wrong Rahane had a better series than him.

He has never won a test match on his own apart from may be second test against England that too India would have won without him.. He is King Kohli! King of soft runs in test cricket. Complete opposite to what he is in odis..
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India is ranked #1 in the world, and it didn't get there by relying on only one player. It is expected that other players perform as well. How does others performing or not affect how well Kohli has batted?
 
Sachin136 said:
India is ranked #1 in the world, and it didn't get there by relying on only one player. It is expected that other players perform as well. How does others performing or not affect how well Kohli has batted?
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do you have reading problems or purposefully ignore the ongoing discussion?
I was anwsering a poster who said he won 'matches' on his 'own'? Dont see how his effort was special that we can describe it as winning on his own.
 
SarfiBabarHaris said:
do you have reading problems or purposefully ignore the ongoing discussion?
I was anwsering a poster who said he won 'matches' on his 'own'? Dont see how his effort was special that we can describe it as winning on his own.
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And winning matches on his own doesn't require everyone else to get out for 0.
 
Joe Root is a better teat player than Virat Kohli. Unlike the overrated Indian, Root doesn't have any glaring weaknesses and with time, he'll score more centuries overseas. Conversion rate is not an issue, even a 70 or 80 can be match-winning in places like England, India and South Africa.
 
Don't think he's ovverated , needs to improve his conversion rate though. I'm sure he will. He has made batting easy in some difficult conditions but just hasn't kicked on.
 
Talhah said:
Smith in my opinion is a flat track bully. He plays on flat tracks in australia and failed everytime there was a bit lateral movement when Australia toured England in 2015. The double hundred he got at lords was a flat pitch. IMO his stats are not a true reflection.
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Name one double century scored on a pitch with substantial swing/seam or turn.
 
Shutdown Corner said:
Name one double century scored on a pitch with substantial swing/seam or turn.
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Sehwag in Galle comes in my mind immediately, but you are right that you are not going to see many big scores on a pitch with substantial swing/seam or turn.
 
Buffet said:
Sehwag in Galle comes in my mind immediately, but you are right that you are not going to see many big scores on a pitch with substantial swing/seam or turn.
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Kane scored some great runs against you in our last series in SA. Up against an on fire Steyn, Philander and Rabada in difficult conditions. He only made 77 but he had to hit out because he was out of partners.
 
Aman said:
Kane scored some great runs against you in our last series in SA. Up against an on fire Steyn, Philander and Rabada in difficult conditions. He only made 77 but he had to hit out because he was out of partners.
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There are many gun knocks in difficult conditions, but double tons will be rare. Either batsman gets an unplayable one or runs out of partner. I have seen some tons, but don't recall many doubles.
 
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Aman said:
Kane scored some great runs against you in our last series in SA. Up against an on fire Steyn, Philander and Rabada in difficult conditions. He only made 77 but he had to hit out because he was out of partners.
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lol Henry Nicholls scored like 70 iirc
 
Bilal7 said:
Joe Root is a better teat player than Virat Kohli. Unlike the overrated Indian, Root doesn't have any glaring weaknesses and with time, he'll score more centuries overseas. Conversion rate is not an issue, even a 70 or 80 can be match-winning in places like England, India and South Africa.
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That's a load of crock.

70-80 is most certainly not match winning in those countries.

England is overrated in terms of difficult, it's quite easy to score runs once the sun is out. India you cannot win matches with a 70 when India are putting up 400+ often. SA you're not going to do anything with 70 unless you have someone score 100 or more.
 
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Talhah said:
Smith in my opinion is a flat track bully. He plays on flat tracks in australia and failed everytime there was a bit lateral movement when Australia toured England in 2015. The double hundred he got at lords was a flat pitch. IMO his stats are not a true reflection.
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3 centuries in 4 test matches in India against arguably the current best spin attack in their home conditions. His 100 at Centurion against Steyn, Philander and Morkel was a great knock as well that was overshadowed by Johnson's 12-fer. If there's a FTB it would be Warner not Smith.
 
Joe Root was really disappointing in the India series where he scored a lot of 50s but rarely went on to 100s. He is a very good player and probably the most technically sound player in the top 4s (Smith, Kohli and Kane being the others). That being said, his list of clutch knocks overseas are way lesser than what you would expect from a top talent.
 
leatherface58 said:
Joe Root was really disappointing in the India series where he scored a lot of 50s but rarely went on to 100s. He is a very good player and probably the most technically sound player in the top 4s (Smith, Kohli and Kane being the others). That being said, his list of clutch knocks overseas are way lesser than what you would expect from a top talent.
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Technically,
Kane > Smith> Root > Kohli.
 
Kohli is definitely not as good a Test batsman as Root. A top quality Test batsman always looks like he is in full control of the destiny of the game when he is at the crease and 'in'. I get that from Smith, Williamson and Root, but not Kohli.
 
BTW I am as big a critic as anybody else of Root's conversion rate, however I will say that a half-century from anyone looks like quite good value on this pitch, definitely the toughest pitch to bat on in this series so far and it will deteriorate further as well.
 
Root has series defining performances at home my friend.

Vs India in 2014
Vs Aus in 2015
Vs Pak in 2016



Williamson and Kohli are still behind Root as far as tests are concerned. Smith is a level ahead though.

Root hasn't done great away but has been good away and way better than Kohli/kane at home.

Kohli's series defining performance:

Vs England at home
Vs Australia away

Smith has one in India and quite a few at home and has got hundreds almost everywhere he toured.
 
James said:
Kohli is definitely not as good a Test batsman as Root. A top quality Test batsman always looks like he is in full control of the destiny of the game when he is at the crease and 'in'. I get that from Smith, Williamson and Root, but not Kohli.
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Root is a god in England and that's about it, Kohli has hundreds all around the globe. I think you've been brainwashed by the SKY hype machine and all the eulogies on Joe Root; it has to be said England's cricketers benefit from the best media exposure in the world, Joe Root is the Kim K of cricket; he looks all pretty but he's hiding what he truly is behind all that make up which SKY and the ECB put on him; a home track bully.
 
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It's also worth pointing out that [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] is not biased at all in his opinion of Root being a fellow Yorkshireman.
 
Bairstow is the real bad boy on this team. Relieve him from glove duty and let him bat in the top 4.
 
Most talented and gifted batsman of this generation but has hardly done anything to be rated as high as Smith.
 
Top scored in challenging conditions, 49 important 2nd innings runs. This is probably a better innings than any of his since his hundred in the first Test.
 
shaz619 said:
It's also worth pointing out that [MENTION=1842]James[/MENTION] is not biased at all in his opinion of Root being a fellow Yorkshireman.
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Slightly biased towards Yorkshire players admittedly, however more of an admirer of Root's talent and appreciative of his contributions, than a big fan. More of a Cookie man. (The cricketer variety, and the triple chocolate chip variety.) :D
 
the Great Khan said:
Azhar Ali is a better test batsman than him and is grossly underated.
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Not much difficult to notice.

Number of 100s in last 2 years:
Smith - 10
Kohli - 7
Pujara - 7
Waliamson - 7
Rahane - 6
Warner - 6
Azhar Ali - 5
Chandimal - 5
Elgar - 5
Root - 5

Averages:
Smith - 68
Williamson - 64
Pujara - 61
Kohli - 55
Azhar Ali - 54
Root - 51
 
leatherface58 said:
Joe Root was really disappointing in the India series where he scored a lot of 50s but rarely went on to 100s. He is a very good player and probably the most technically sound player in the top 4s (Smith, Kohli and Kane being the others). That being said, his list of clutch knocks overseas are way lesser than what you would expect from a top talent.
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Root to me is definitely the best of the 4 in Tests but Virat has best technique , his issue is more a ODI approach to Test batting rather than technique .

As for OP I dont think so , Root is far from overrated and I disagree that he cannot dominate , hes got the game to do it .
 
shaz619 said:
Root is a god in England and that's about it, Kohli has hundreds all around the globe. I think you've been brainwashed by the SKY hype machine and all the eulogies on Joe Root; it has to be said England's cricketers benefit from the best media exposure in the world, Joe Root is the Kim K of cricket; he looks all pretty but he's hiding what he truly is behind all that make up which SKY and the ECB put on him; a home track bully.
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I think thats unfair , off course hes very good at home but hes done well overseas as well .

you are forgetting hes only 26 years old and still a couple of years from peak of his career
 
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] check out Dobell's piece on Root :)))

First sentence

Of course it was Joe Root who should score the runs to take England into an impregnable position.
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:moeen

Is he related to Root or something.



James said:
Top scored in challenging conditions, 49 important 2nd innings runs. This is probably a better innings than any of his since his hundred in the first Test.
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Still unable to convert on ANOTHER start....

This is nothing to boast about for someone who is shown time and time again that he struggles to convert starts like champion batsmen do.
 
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Aman said:
[MENTION=46929]shaz619[/MENTION] check out Dobell's piece on Root :)))

First sentence


:moeen

Is he related to Root or something.



Still unable to convert on ANOTHER start....

This is nothing to boast about for someone who is shown time and time again that he struggles to convert starts like champion batsmen do.
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It's actually good for Mo that these so called pundits hype up Joe, it takes pressure of the Beard :yk Root's century record is shocking, he thrives at home and has only played a handful of great knocks away. Am a big critic of Kohli and even I can't find a narrative which suggests Joe is better
 
461 runs at 57.62 in a series when no other batsman crossed 360 runs is quite good.

His conversion rate is a big problem in both formats but still that was a brilliant series for him.
 
Mr consistent. Not a bad problem to have not being able to convert a 60 to 100 when he rarely gets a low scoring test match
 
He has some technical flaws that he needs to iron out. And sure he should score more tons no doubt.

However he is world class batsman and is not over rated by any means.
 
Mobashir said:
461 runs at 57.62 in a series when no other batsman crossed 360 runs is quite good.

His conversion rate is a big problem in both formats but still that was a brilliant series for him.
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Agree, and a very good first series as captain too.
 
Currently rated at #2 in the world, behind Smith and ahead of some Kiwi bloke whose name I don't recall.
 
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