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Junaid Khan vs Mohammad Amir

leatherface58 said:
Amir is grossly overrated. just on basis of one awesome series people were fawning over the guy.sure he was a prodigy but if the amount of intelligence he had in his bowling, he could have used in his life he would have been playing for Pakistan now.

Junaid is very good.he is not very quick but he is accurate and can swing the ball both ways. he has a very bright future.

so yeah Junaid>>>> Amir

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I think a comparision between Aamir and Junaid is like comparing Umar Akmal to Azhar Ali.

Many will say Umar is much better than Azhar but if you look at the results Azhar has out performed Umar in much more challenging conditions (England), just like Junaid has done comapared to Aamir.

Umar like Aamir is perhaps much more talented but they have not been able to fully justify their talent with results on the field.
Azhar and Junaid has been much more effecient when it comes to results on the field.
 
how many of you remember Amir in WC T20 2009? he was nippy but not express, had good line n length but not 100% accurate, and didnt had any lateral movement at all. He was just angling it across

He did swung the ball in SL but nothing prodigeous, it was Champions trophy where he did real damage with the new ball and one-dayers in Australia when he started to bend the ball back in.

He was ofcourse, a naturally gifted bowler and a quick learner. But in comparison, you can see that Junaid has infact made a much better start albeit he was 4 years older at debut :)
 
farazaidi said:
how many of you remember Amir in WC T20 2009? he was nippy but not express, had good line n length but not 100% accurate, and didnt had any lateral movement at all. He was just angling it across

He did swung the ball in SL but nothing prodigeous, it was Champions trophy where he did real damage with the new ball and one-dayers in Australia when he started to bend the ball back in.

He was ofcourse, a naturally gifted bowler and a quick learner. But in comparison, you can see that Junaid has infact made a much better start albeit he was 4 years older at debut :)
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Junaid is 22 now and Amir is 20.
 
Watch this to see how good Amir was.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/rDvITjqrncs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
Had Amir been playing today, he might very well be challenging the likes of Steyn and Broad for the title of the best pacer in the world, such was his potential and skill.

Junaid needs to increase his pace and have a breakout performance to be considered in the same league.
 
i honestly dont know why junaid is getting such stepchildly treatment. he has 3 5-fers all on roads vs lanka who are master ftbs.

he has played on worse pitches than amir and outperformed him. what more does he have to do to prove he is a more than good replacement for amir?

one thing we all agree on is that amir was very gifted. but all he is now is a cautionary tale.

pathetic excuses like age is given. well here is an example. when ashraful scored that debut ton, and if he had been banned and not played after that, would he have been called the next bradman???
 
Bilal7 said:
Had Amir been playing today, he might very well be challenging the likes of Steyn and Broad for the title of the best pacer in the world, such was his potential and skill.

Junaid needs to increase his pace and have a breakout performance to be considered in the same league.
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Amir generated the most amount of interest , more than Steyn and Broad even . Most people found it hard to accept that he is only 17 . He was brilliant but wasted a lot of important years of his life for some money . Even if he comes back , Junaid Khan will be ahead of him , in the sense he will be an established bowler , a regular in the side if JK performs like he is doing right now .


Also , I wish PP can interview him , I would like to know what JK did to turn into such a beast with the ball . Prior to his injury , he looked pretty non threatening .
 
will be better because one is a cheat and wont be playing anytime soon

so its better to focus on the present rather than the past


people say junaid cant swing it into the batsman ? absurd he did it in ireland and you will probably see it soon


he is probably around 10-15mph slower than amir but im sure he will get quicker


as far as stats go then junaid after 8 tests is proving he is better


has 5 more wickets than mohammad amir at this stage so it counts for something. and dont know why some people are shocked, his domestic bowling records are unbelievable and rival mohammad amir's
 
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I think we need to see Junaid against other countries before making a comparison. He has only really played against SL.
 
Yeah Amir was relatively slower too when he started . JK should pick up pace as he bowls regularly .
 
i was bored and was reading this thread, decided to make a little appreciation video on both of these bowlers. hope you guys like it!

(PS: didnt know what to put at the end! so whatever....)

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/o2qaUarc2qE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
JilaWatan said:
i was bored and was reading this thread, decided to make a little appreciation video on both of these bowlers. hope you guys like it!

(PS: didnt know what to put at the end! so whatever....)

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/o2qaUarc2qE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Nice vid! Should have added Sanga's dismissal a couple of days ago.
 
Junaid performances have been brilliant, no doubt. But there is no way that, he, at the moment, can match the swing of Aamer. Aamer had a better seam position, swung it more than Junaid. From what I have seen, Junaid can swing the old ball, but he was getting more seam than swing with the new ball. ANd he can not bend it back into the right hander as prodigiously as Aamer.

I still maintain that Aamer was the most gifted fast bowler that I have ever seen. Asif and Aamer were the deadliest pairing ever. Easily the best in the world, when they got banned
 
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Re-worked the video a bit [ enjoy it in HD =) ]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/kTkib-JkXQU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Cheers
 
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the talent of Aamir's calibre is born once in a decade....

what Aamir did not have????swing with the new ball(both ways)..reverse swing with the old ball with 145_150.......patience,temperament and above all the very rare thing in our quicks "Intelligence".....
and every thing at that young age too....

you can not get any better than that....Still early days for Junaid....do you think Junaid can produce a splendid spell like Aamir at MCG with ball reversing at 150.....

May be he can be very close to Aamir but not above him...
 
Amir was so special. There will never be another bowler like him. At such a young age he had everything. Pace, ability to bowl at 90mph+. He could swing the new ball. He could reverse the old ball. He could attack when needed. He could defend and contain when needed to. He could hit the seam. He could bowl yorkers at the death. He could bowl bouncers. He could change his pace well. He could swing the ball back into the right handers. He could out think top batsman. He was only 18.
 
Bullet Drive said:
Amir was so special. There will never be another bowler like him. At such a young age he had everything. Pace, ability to bowl at 90mph+. He could swing the new ball. He could reverse the old ball. He could attack when needed. He could defend and contain when needed to. He could hit the seam. He could bowl yorkers at the death. He could bowl bouncers. He could change his pace well. He could swing the ball back into the right handers. He could out think top batsman. He was only 18.
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That brought tears in my eyes. Bleh
Are you a novel writer or what? :P
 
Junaid is decent...but Amir was on a different level..

[utube]Xn5Pq1_eByo&feature=g-upl[/utube]
 
Amir was NOT a great bowler. He was someone with the potential to be great. An average of 30 plus (on subcontinent pitches) is not outstanding
 
Amir could do all Junaid can (and better) at 140 + kph pace... Zunaid is a trundler in comparison. He has got to have Asif like control and skill if you want to compare him with Amir.
 
that aamer delivery to mitchell johnson

mesmerizing will never forget that what a delivery

paul allot bang on in commentary

thats as good as you can get
 
For all of the potential, talent and ability Aamir showed us....

At the end of the day, he was caught robbing Pakistan cricket and I hope that is the end of his short-lived career...

Those youtube videos will remain small nuggets of history of a 'prodigy'

As for Junaid, he is getting better every game and has all the skills and abilities to better what Aamir had done..

Let us not dwell on the past but, look forward to the future!!
 
Luton Bad Boy said:
For all of the potential, talent and ability Aamir showed us....

At the end of the day, he was caught robbing Pakistan cricket and I hope that is the end of his short-lived career...

Those youtube videos will remain small nuggets of history of a 'prodigy'

As for Junaid, he is getting better every game and has all the skills and abilities to better what Aamir had done..

Let us not dwell on the past but, look forward to the future!!
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This!
 
People who are saying Amir swung the ball more, amir had better control/seam etc are probably forgetting that that happened in bowler freindly conditions...what Junaid has done he has done on the flattest wickets in conditions that aren't suited for pace bowling at all i.e in dubai and sri lanka, amir looked good because he played in conditions that were perfect for him, and still junaid has the better record, stats don't lie. Junaid>>>>Amir
 
You can't just go on stats , you have to watch both the bowlers to decide who is better or has more potential. Amir has every trick in the bag, inswing ,outswing inseamer ,away seamer , mean short stuff, mean yorkers , late reverse swing and a very good brain to work with. He was 17 when he made his debut and leart everything fairly quickly. Junaid though is a good prospect but does not possess inswinger to right handers (inseamer he has) And does not have that kind of swing and venom.
 
MAJID-SHAH said:
People who are saying Amir swung the ball more, amir had better control/seam etc are probably forgetting that that happened in bowler freindly conditions...what Junaid has done he has done on the flattest wickets in conditions that aren't suited for pace bowling at all i.e in dubai and sri lanka, amir looked good because he played in conditions that were perfect for him, and still junaid has the better record, stats don't lie. Junaid>>>>Amir
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LOL, I like Junaid for his hardwork but its unfair to compare him with Aamir, he looked so complete at very young age.

As for as bowling friendly conditions are concerned, actually i have seen Junaid bowling in English conditions for Counties, he didn't look anything like Aamir but Junaid, if he keeps working hard should serve us for another 5 years and thats a good thing.
 
After this performance, I say Junaid Khan is now is better than Amir

He can bowl in any condition now
 
shah_1 said:
After this performance, I say Junaid Khan is now is better than Amir

He can bowl in any condition now
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Amir had a better inswinger...that said Junaid is improving which is a good sign.
 
agree amir was bringing the ball back in at 18, junaid is doing it at 23.
 
None of them are express but time will tell,Junaid is a good find and because he is avg 135ks....chances are he will remain fit for a long time
 
Even thou Junaid is class...hes not what Amir was.
Still I would rather have Junaid now anyway. MashaAllah bowling really well!
 
Please don't make this comparison. Amir was 18. Junaid is 22. Big difference for fast bowlers.
 
i don't understand the whole "amir swings the ball both ways". Glenn mccgrath didn't swing it much either way, so does that mean that Amir was better than Mcgrath?
 
who cares about a cheater

ShameOnAmir, who sells his country for only £2000 or more
 
those who keep labeling amir as cheat should first read the title of the thread . Its a comparison thread not a debate if he cheated or not .

Now to the topic , Amir is one of his kind bowler who skills are unmatched by any new debutant.
Actually it can easily be said ,Amir starts where Junaid finishes.
I don't think I would be able to see any young bowling talent as good as amir, at least in my life time( Hope to see him again ,InshAllah). He was absolute perfection of fast bowling .
 
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Junaid is more of a seam bowler while Amir swung the ball more in the air.

Amir had a good cricket brain as well. He developed a very good off cutter for the right hand batsman.

Junaid is improving though, hopefully will keep getting better as he is Pakistans not Amir.
 
The point is that If I am the captain I wouldn't trust a cheater, am I?

Junaid is the present and he is the future.....all Hail Junaid
 
Amir was different class, a once in a lifetime bowler, but the present is all about Junaid !

Amir fell foul for whatever reasons, time to get behind the players who are actually still playing for Pakistan.
 
It would be good viewing amir(when he comes back) with Junaid khan sharing the new ball.
 
Saj said:
Amir was different class, a once in a lifetime bowler, but the present is all about Junaid !

Amir fell foul for whatever reasons, time to get behind the players who are actually still playing for Pakistan.
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+1

Junaid will never be as good as Amir...but we must persist with Junaid in the long run.
 
in_cutter said:
+1

Junaid will never be as good as Amir...but we must persist with Junaid in the long run.
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And why Junaid will never be as good as Amir? What had amir done on flat tracks of subcontinent? Junaid has not even played 1 match in favourable conditions of england, SA ,Aus or NZ and still has a better avg. then amir.. Just bcz amir was faster at a younger age doesnt make him better than junaid.
 
Imagine Amir, Junaid and Asif in the same Test line-up?

Back on topic I also believe that Amir was another class, but Junaid has grabbed his opportunities with both hands and are bowling great in difficult conditions MashaAllah.

Even if Paksitan bats second in the next match he will bowl well under the lights because of his pace and swing InshaAllah.

Pace bowling for Pakistan looks good now, especially with Mohammad Irfan also bowling quick.
 
Amir and Junaid did partner each other in the youth team and terroised batsmen then. Its unfortunate that we lost Amir, who was probably the greatest talent discovered since Bradman. They both would have made a better pair then Akram/Waqar.
 
blackanhyellow said:
A bowler who destroyed england and austrailian line up is over rated? Its maybe because we rate england batsmen so high (in english conditions lol) that we rate amir highly.
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Destroyed? Yes he took quite a few wickets here and there but let's be realistic. It was the most bowler friendly conditions England has seen for years. In every other country he played in he averaged 40. The way people talk about him on this forum you'd think Pakistan lost Malcolm Marshal in his prime.

Some guy in this thread just said Amir and Junaid would have been better than the 2 W's. Really?

He was talented, let's just leave it at that.
 
Alexander said:
Destroyed? Yes he took quite a few wickets here and there but let's be realistic. It was the most bowler friendly conditions England has seen for years. In every other country he played in he averaged 40. The way people talk about him on this forum you'd think Pakistan lost Malcolm Marshal in his prime.

Some guy in this thread just said Amir and Junaid would have been better than the 2 W's. Really?

He was talented, let's just leave it at that.
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It's become borderline consensual saying this, but correlation is not causality.

Amir's average was high in non-bowling friendly conditions, but he was 16-17 during those matches and he didn't bowl after the English Summer so we I don't know how you can say that he would have continued averaging 40 in non-friendly conditions.

If you look at the way he bowled in England, at 18, he swung the bowl both ways, got international class batsmen out, clocked at 152, showed a lot of accuracy and a great cricketing brain. Now, if you compare that to 16 year old amir, you can see an exceptional learning curve which, if it had continued (and there was no reason for it not to), takes Amir much further than ''a 40 average''.

And Besides that, the whole cricketing world was full of praise, he was going to receive wisden award, even if you take out that IK said that he is the most talented cricketer he's ever seen (fine, demagogy), that Wasim Akram said he was better than him at 18 (fine, pakistani bias).
 
Alexander said:
Destroyed? Yes he took quite a few wickets here and there but let's be realistic. It was the most bowler friendly conditions England has seen for years. In every other country he played in he averaged 40. The way people talk about him on this forum you'd think Pakistan lost Malcolm Marshal in his prime.

Some guy in this thread just said Amir and Junaid would have been better than the 2 W's. Really?

He was talented, let's just leave it at that.
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He was like 18. Even wasim said that amir was more talented than him at the same age. Maybe some of the posters are exaggerating yes, doesnt mean he wouldnt be the second best bowler in the world after steyn right now. So obviously fans believe they lost out on a great talent to a stupid and needless thing he did.
 
endymion248 said:
It's become borderline consensual saying this, but correlation is not causality.

Amir's average was high in non-bowling friendly conditions, but he was 16-17 during those matches and he didn't bowl after the English Summer so we I don't know how you can say that he would have continued averaging 40 in non-friendly conditions.

If you look at the way he bowled in England, at 18, he swung the bowl both ways, got international class batsmen out, clocked at 152, showed a lot of accuracy and a great cricketing brain. Now, if you compare that to 16 year old amir, you can see an exceptional learning curve which, if it had continued (and there was no reason for it not to), takes Amir much further than ''a 40 average''.

And Besides that, the whole cricketing world was full of praise, he was going to receive wisden award, even if you take out that IK said that he is the most talented cricketer he's ever seen (fine, demagogy), that Wasim Akram said he was better than him at 18 (fine, pakistani bias).
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Lol this, he typed faster than me -_-
 
Saj said:
Amir was different class, a once in a lifetime bowler, but the present is all about Junaid !

Amir fell foul for whatever reasons, time to get behind the players who are actually still playing for Pakistan.
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this basically. Amir will get whatever it is destined in his fate, he needs to stay out of spotlight for atleast another 3 and half years
 
endymion248 said:
Amir's average was high in non-bowling friendly conditions, but he was 16-17 during those matches and he didn't bowl after the English Summer so we I don't know how you can say that he would have continued averaging 40 in non-friendly conditions.
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I did not make any reference anywhere to how Amir would have performed in the future and I most definitely did not say he would continue to average 40. I stated a fact that he averaged 40 in every country he played in bar England.


If you look at the way he bowled in England, at 18, he swung the bowl both ways, got international class batsmen out, clocked at 152, showed a lot of accuracy and a great cricketing brain. Now, if you compare that to 16 year old amir, you can see an exceptional learning curve which
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I already stated he was talented.

, if it had continued (and there was no reason for it not to), takes Amir much further than ''a 40 average''.
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Ifs and buts.

And Besides that, the whole cricketing world was full of praise
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Yes and why not. He was a young bowler showing promise, but this is where some fans have to draw the line. That's all he was.

he was going to receive wisden award
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So did Tim Bresnan and Graham Onions. They are both decent at best.

, even if you take out that IK said that he is the most talented cricketer he's ever seen (fine, demagogy), that Wasim Akram said he was better than him at 18 (fine, pakistani bias).
Click to expand...

Saved me from typing it.

Was he a talented bowler? Yes
Do I want to see him come back one day? Yes
Was he going to be a great? We'll never know. He didn't prove himself in the other countries he played in. He had one good series in the most favorable conditions on the planet. Do you know how many bowlers have had a big series and then vanished? This is why I called him overrated. A lot of fans making a lot of claims like he's been tearing batting lineups for a decade.

Just my opinion. :)
 
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Alexander said:
I did not make any reference anywhere to how Amir would have performed in the future and I most definitely did not say he would continue to average 40. I stated a fact that he averaged 40 in every country he played in bar England.
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So, you stated a fact but you also used it as an argument for ''overrated''. The only way that it's relevant is if you think ''Amir wasn't that good on flat pitches as in England''. But you can still clarify: do you think 2010 summer was fluke because he averaged 40 in 2009?

I'm pretty much agreeing with the rest of the post. Amir, to me, had the potential to be an ATG, but people can claim the same thing about Sreeshanth and I can't do anything about it.

Where you may disagree with me is that, at the precise period of summer 2010, Amir was the third best bowler in the world.
 
endymion248 said:
So, you stated a fact but you also used it as an argument for ''overrated''.
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Yes, that's what facts are there to be used for.

The only way that it's relevant is if you think ''Amir wasn't that good on flat pitches as in England''. But you can still clarify: do you think 2010 summer was fluke because he averaged 40 in 2009?
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I don't "think" it. I know it because it's a fact. The fanboys deal with assumptions and what "could have been". The fact of the matter is, we'll never know what he would have become as a bowler on flat decks and unfavorable conditions. All we know is that in his short career he was crap on them. Hence, he is overrated.
 
Alexander said:
Yes, that's what facts are there to be used for.



I don't "think" it. I know it because it's a fact. The fanboys deal with assumptions and what "could have been". The fact of the matter is, we'll never know what he would have become as a bowler on flat decks and unfavorable conditions. All we know is that in his short career he was crap on them. Hence, he is overrated.
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So cricket should be based solely on facts? Forget that he was only 17 when he averaged 40 and that his average was improving after every test? These are also facts and context along with observation are required to form an opinion.

I ask a question. Do you genuinely believe that over a 10 year career he wouldn't have taken over 300 wickets and averaged 23-28?
 
talha3 said:
So cricket should be based solely on facts? Forget that he was only 17 when he averaged 40 and that his average was improving after every test? These are also facts and context along with observation are required to form an opinion.

I ask a question. Do you genuinely believe that over a 10 year career he wouldn't have taken over 300 wickets and averaged 23-28?
Click to expand...


If I had asked you the same question in 1999 about Shoaib Akhtar, what would you have said?

The point I'm trying to make is no one knows the future, as talented as somebody might be, all these guesses and assumptions are stupid. People make out like he is streets ahead of other bowlers in international cricket right now which is simply not the case.
 
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