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Junaid Khan vs Mohammad Amir

Alexander said:
If I had asked you the same question in 1999 about Shoaib Akhtar, what would you have said?

The point I'm trying to make is no one knows the future, as talented as somebody might be, all these guesses and assumptions are stupid. People make out like he is streets ahead of other bowlers in international cricket right now which is simply not the case.
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Fair enough. Which is why (as I've already mentioned in this thread) I don't think they should be compared with him. He could have been a world class bowler, could have been an OK bowler. The only thing you can say with certainty is that he was one of the best 18 year old pace bowlers international cricket has seen.
 
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:amir is unique!!

:junaid is our future!
 
Alexander said:
If I had asked you the same question in 1999 about Shoaib Akhtar, what would you have said?

The point I'm trying to make is no one knows the future, as talented as somebody might be, all these guesses and assumptions are stupid. People make out like he is streets ahead of other bowlers in international cricket right now which is simply not the case.
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If not for injury Akhtar has had a class career...he wasnt even at his best in 1999...some of his best displays came in the early 00's...hes been an outstanding bowler imo...so not the best example to use...
 
Alexander said:
I don't "think" it. I know it because it's a fact. The fanboys deal with assumptions and what "could have been". The fact of the matter is, we'll never know what he would have become as a bowler on flat decks and unfavorable conditions. All we know is that in his short career he was crap on them. Hence, he is overrated.
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No, it's not a fact.

You can't state facts because there is a basic flaw in your thinking, and it's the that you operate on a manichean opposition between Amir on a flat deck vs Amir in England. However, I work under the assumption Amir at 16 vs Amir at 18.

When you say that we can't predict from Amir18 what Amir25 would have been, fine. But then how can you predict how Amir would have performed on flat pitches after 2010?

Fine, he was crap on flat wickets in 2009. But how do you know that he wouldn't have been equally crap had he been playing on English wickets in 2009? That's what I think, in other terms, Amir wasn't crap on flat wickets, amir was crap at 16. And Amir wasn't a genius on English pitches, he was a genius at 18. Spot the difference? (http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/en...template=results;type=bowling;view=cumulative
Amir's Average had been droping proportionally to his age from match 6)

It's upon rest of the posters to decide which one is the right one but you can't say that what you're saying is a fact.
 
The flattest wicket Amir played on in test cricket was at the MCG in 2009. Bowled 150k+ reverse swing to remove Ponting, Hussey ,Clarke etc and became the youngest ever pace bowler to take a 5 wicket haul.
 
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0CAF7TZiPxo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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The comparison is a difficult one to make.

It's easy to sit back and tarnish Mohammad Amir's abilities after the fixing saga. It's easy to downplay his sheer talent and focus in on his poor choices (inexcusable ones). Yet, we have to use a clear head.

Mohammad Amir was certainly the more talented of the two. If Mohammad Amir hit his potential, it would be greater than anything Junaid Khan could achieve. I firmly believed this and he's thrown that away with his ban.

What makes Junaid Khan such an exhilarating talent is his ability to work hard. A bowler can add an extra yard of pace, gain swing, extract seam movement; if the work is put in. Junaid Khan is the type of bowler that gets this and does put in the work. He will go far because of this mental attribute.

You give any cricketing fan the option of choosing between Mohammad Amir (before fixing saga) and Junaid Khan; 9/10 would take Mohammad Amir (there's always that one Pashtun fan!).

Simple as that really. Takes nothing away from Junaid Khan. He's a heck of a talent and has the makings of something truly special.

There might come a day when these two are sharing the new ball. You never know, this is Pakistani cricket we are talking about!
 
I would say at this moment in time Junaid isn't as good, but the more exposure he gets to the international scene the better he will get. Amir was a world class bowler by the time he got banned, can't class Junaid on that level yet.

As a Pakistan fan I hope he does get become better than Amir, we need a world class quick bowler in our line up again.

Just imagine them both leading our attack right now...one can dream. Amir you silly little boy.
 
Amir easily to be honest.

There are bowlers who are good, and then there are bowlers who add a whole new dimension to a bowling attack and transform its mechanics and potential just by being in it.

Junaid is one of the former, Amir was one of the latter.

It is not unlike a comparison between James Anderson and Muhammad Asif. Both are good bowlers but there can still be an almost intangible difference in class - which Pakistani bowlers often display.
 
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pretty sure when junaid creams england and australia everybody will be singing a different tune


and he will
 
bottom line is that Junaid is our present and amir is the past. People need to forget about the cheat and move on. There is very little chance he will be able to bowl as well after a 5 year ban. (which he deserved and he arguably deserved more). We need to stop praising cheats. Its only because of people who support match fixers because they are "talented" that this saga happened. We didn't properly punish our players in the 90's because of their "talent" and thats why this happened again

As far as who is more talented, Junaid has done well on sub continent pitches and Amir didn't exactly demonstrate the ability to do that. Junaid is better either way
 
People here are getting emotional , we are talking about the skill with the ball not how one is honest and the other is not. Compare only the skills with the ball.. a lot has been said about the fixing thing.
 
Amir ofcourse. Junaid Khan has the potential to average below 25 in all formats of the game. Amir had the potential to become an ATG.

After his ban though, Amir's growth will be stunted and he might be forced to play second fiddle to Junaid, if the former comes back that is.
 
At the moment Junaid is above Amir . Amir improved himself on Australian/England pitches while Junaid did that on Sub-continental ones .

Going by yesterday's performance , I shudder at what JK would do in SA .
 
Junaid too seems a brilliant bowler. He looked a million dollars yesterday but still no-one can beat Amir. I'm sure Amir will be back into cricket soon though.

I reckon if Amir & Asif were still playing the rankings would be:

1) Asif
2) Steyn
3) Amir
 
James said:
Amir easily to be honest.

There are bowlers who are good, and then there are bowlers who add a whole new dimension to a bowling attack and transform its mechanics and potential just by being in it.

Junaid is one of the former, Amir was one of the latter.

It is not unlike a comparison between James Anderson and Muhammad Asif. Both are good bowlers but there can still be an almost intangible difference in class - which Pakistani bowlers often display.
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I agree, even though, at the end of the day, I would much rather have JK and Anderson in my team than Asif and Amir.
 
Thanks!

akamaka said:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/0CAF7TZiPxo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Thanks for video!!

That delivery :amir bowled to Mitchel Johnson, any ATG (Imran/Wasim/Waqar etc.) would be proud of that. What a gem at that speed!! unplayable!! :cheema
 
Bullet Drive said:
Junaid too seems a brilliant bowler. He looked a million dollars yesterday but still no-one can beat Amir. I'm sure Amir will be back into cricket soon though.

I reckon if Amir & Asif were still playing the rankings would be:

1) Asif
2) Steyn
3) Amir
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4) Saeed Ajmal :ajmal

Imagine that... hehe
 
Junaid WAS just as good as Amir when they played together at youth level, infact iqbal qasim was suprised Amir got a chance at international level before Junaid. Junaid has learnt just as quick as Amir. they both spent about equal time in international level and junaid has learnt just as much as Amir. Allah knows best what junaid would do in favourable conditions. Junaid has a better record than amir playing on subcontinent pitches. Only thing Amir has better than Junaid is pace.
 
No, Amir swung the ball more. And he was two years younger than Junaid in the youth level and was picked by Wasim despite Junaid's presence.

Maybe, if junaid had been picked first, he would have been less likely to be under Asif's influence than Amir...
 
endymion248 said:
No, Amir swung the ball more. And he was two years younger than Junaid in the youth level and was picked by Wasim despite Junaid's presence.

Maybe, if junaid had been picked first, he would have been less likely to be under Asif's influence than Amir...
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how? Amir swung it more with a red ball and on english and aus pitches. Junaid will do same when he goes there. I agree Amir had more talent but stats dont lie. Imagine both of them together!
 
Imagine if both of them were bowling at India yesterday. :murali

Would have have 50 all out. :))
 
No Doubt.

I'm just saying Junaid hasn't swung the ball like Amir yet. He is barely able to take it back in to the right hander and there is nothing more I hope for Junaid than seeing him swing the ball like Amir, be it next match or in England.
 
endymion248 said:
No Doubt.

I'm just saying Junaid hasn't swung the ball like Amir yet. He is barely able to take it back in to the right hander and there is nothing more I hope for Junaid than seeing him swing the ball like Amir, be it next match or in England.
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He was swinging it in to right hander at will last match. white ball doesnt swing as much..we'll have to wait and see a test in eng or saf...
 
Amir doesn't need help from the track becuase of his sheer pace. That will always be the difference between the two.
 
Cpt. Rishwat said:
Amir doesn't need help from the track becuase of his sheer pace. That will always be the difference between the two.
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I concur.

Amir was seen hitting speeds of 150 KPH in T20s. I don't think Junaid can get up to that kind of velocity.

I think he'd be close though. Mid 140s at his peak in terms of pace.
 
endymion248 said:
No Doubt.

I'm just saying Junaid hasn't swung the ball like Amir yet. He is barely able to take it back in to the right hander and there is nothing more I hope for Junaid than seeing him swing the ball like Amir, be it next match or in England.
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Junaid is just starting to develop the indipper. Aamir developed it very quickly.

Junaid was primarily a seam bowler , and this is the first time we have seen him swinging the new ball. Aamir could do that pretty much from the start
 
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ataullah said:
Junaid WAS just as good as Amir when they played together at youth level.
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Don't agree. When they played together, Amir was 16 and Junaid 18. Junaid was bowling in the early to mid 80s, Amir was bowling in the mid to late 80s. Neither moved the ball back but Amir seamed the new ball better and was far better at the death - bowled some outstanding yorkers for someone so young.
 
ataullah said:
wow..main thing is consistency in speed...how much was amir clocking on subcontinent piches in odi's?
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Consistently late 80s-90, in T20s he was starting to become a consistent 90mph+ bowler - see T20s Vs Australia in England.

On the flattest track of his career (MCG) he knew there wasn't much happening off the pitch so came around the wicket and swung the ball away from right handers at 145-150ks, also clocked his career best 156 in that game. At the Oval, during his other 5for, he bowled quicker when the ball reversed - the spell after tea was consistently around 88mph, hitting 90mph when getting down to Broad and Swann - though he was happy with 83-86 for most of the series when the new ball was talking and people on PP were talking about how his pace had fallen.
 
An 18 yr old kid clocking 90 mph, swinging the new and the old ball both ways at will. If that's not talent, then what is?

Imagine what Aamir would have been like at 25. With a more developed, stronger body. Frightening pace, swing and guile. As I said, he was destined to become the best fast bowler ever.
 
Junaid can still add another yard of pace he is only 23 and has another 3 years before he enters the peak period for a fast bowler.
 
waqar_ahmad said:
An 18 yr old kid clocking 90 mph, swinging the new and the old ball both ways at will. If that's not talent, then what is?

Imagine what Aamir would have been like at 25. With a more developed, stronger body. Frightening pace, swing and guile. As I said, he was destined to become the best fast bowler ever.
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He had pace, swing both ways, reverse-swing, yorkers, bouncers, slower bouncers, seam movement both ways.

Everything you'd want in a bowler at such a young age.
 
waqar_ahmad said:
An 18 yr old kid clocking 90 mph, swinging the new and the old ball both ways at will. If that's not talent, then what is?

Imagine what Aamir would have been like at 25. With a more developed, stronger body. Frightening pace, swing and guile. As I said, he was destined to become the best fast bowler ever.
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Like I said, this is Pakistani cricket we are talking about, we could still see him running in after his ban.

If he trains hard in these 5 years, he could be the same bowler. Talent doesn't just disappear.
 
Actually, it's not a 18 year old clocking 90mph, it's a 17 year old clocking 95 if what Sledger is true. I personally only saw him clock around 93 in England.
 
MCG meaning Melbourne, Australia, but yes he was still 17 on that tour.
 
Sledger said:
Could still see that.
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But he has lost vital years of development due to the ban. So it wont be the same.

Bullet Drive said:
He had pace, swing both ways, reverse-swing, yorkers, bouncers, slower bouncers, seam movement both ways.

Everything you'd want in a bowler at such a young age.
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Aamir would have broken a lot of records had he not gone the wrong route.

kingusama92 said:
Like I said, this is Pakistani cricket we are talking about, we could still see him running in after his ban.

If he trains hard in these 5 years, he could be the same bowler. Talent doesn't just disappear.
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It doesnt disappear, but this ban has dented his progress significantly. Dont expect the same results now, that Aamir would have produced had he not been banned.
 
speed said:
Junaid can still add another yard of pace he is only 23 and has another 3 years before he enters the peak period for a fast bowler.
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ifs and buts...Anderson could have added a yard of pace but didn't. Speculation on future maybes doesn't really mean anything.
 
Can Junaid Khan become as lethal as Amir was in England in upcoming Champions trophy?
 
this is comparing Silver with Gold

both are very nice but one is clearly better


Amir was once a generation bowler. At the age of 17 he was the finished product in terms of skills
 
pakistanigoneaussie said:
this is comparing Silver with Gold

both are very nice but one is clearly better


Amir was once a generation bowler. At the age of 17 he was the finished product in terms of skills
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What skills did Amir have that Junaid does not have?

Inswinger?
Pace?
Outswinger?
Yorker?
Bouncer?

TBH there a are a few things that Junaid can do and has shown to do better than Amir.
 
ahmed778 said:
What skills did Amir have that Junaid does not have?

Inswinger?
Pace?
Outswinger?
Yorker?
Bouncer?

TBH there a are a few things that Junaid can do and has shown to do better than Amir.
Click to expand...

He could do all these things more consistently, more pace and at the age of 17 - key point right there
 
Comparing Junaid to Amir? seriously people :facepalm:

One was easily the next big thing and could easily trouble the best batsman in the world. I remeber the toecrusher he bowled to tamim in 2010 T20WC, that was a delivery wasim akram could bowl only in his prime. Bowling like that at an age of 18 was magnificent. Junaid is good, but still has a lot of lackings as expected.

Amir was a freak, a lot like gayle(when it comes to T20s only)
 
pakistanigoneaussie said:
Amir did it 4 years younger
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Amir also had the advantage of bowling alongside Shoaib,Asif and an inform Gul.
He was a part of an already good Pace Attack.
Where as Junaid has been played as the only seamer in some matches and usually plays alongside and out of form Gul or some other Rookie bowler.
 
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Amir was the more Talented one no doubt about that, but Junaid has learned more and more through Hard Work.
When he debuted 2 Years ago Junaid could only angle the ball across the Right Hander, in 2 years he has learned


-How to bowl a good Yorker
-How to swing the ball both ways
-How to ball a good bouncer
-How to reverse swing the ball
-How to Seam the bowl
-Has added 5-10ks of pace

That is just 2 years if he continues like this in 2 years time he will be much better than Amir.
 
ahmed778 said:
Amir was the more Talented one no doubt about that, but Junaid has learned more and more through Hard Work.
When he debuted 2 Years ago Junaid could only angle the ball across the Right Hander, in 2 years he has learned


-How to bowl a good Yorker
-How to swing the ball both ways
-How to ball a good bouncer
-How to reverse swing the ball
-How to Seam the bowl
-Has added 5-10ks of pace

That is just 2 years if he continues like this in 2 years time he will be much better than Amir.
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you cant say that and state it as fact. People never said Amir wasnt hardworking.

theres no doubt in my mind that were he playing today would been in the top 5 bowling rankings in odis and tests


alas he was a fool

Pretty much any expert though would tell you amir was better than junaid


junaid is very good and i feel will be a pak great, amir could have been a legend. Thats the difference
 
It's just laughable that people are comparing Amir to Junaid. Amir was once in a lifetime bowler. Junaid is learning what Amir had at the age of 18.

I mean come on people. Corrupt or not, Amir was a freak!
 
Bullet Drive said:
Insha'Allah Amir makes a comeback. He was Steyn-like
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He was better. considering his age. But no reason to say junaid cant become as good as Amir in the future. Junaid has a better record on dead wickets of SC.
 
But there is no guarantee that Amir would have continued the way he was bowling.
But well, 2015 is near hopefully Amir makes a comeback.
 
Amir much the better bowler and someone with amazing talent at such a young age, as go as far to say he was better then wasim akram was at the same stage of Akrams very early career. Bowlers like Amir are very rare to find and hopefully he will come back after his ban and still be the talented bowler he was. Junaid will get better with time and hard work but Amir had the ability naturally pretty much from the start.
 
Junaid will be better than Amir.
I am 100% sure about that.
 
the only reason this argument is taking place is because Amir was a fixer. Being a cheat doesnt mean he is not better in terms of skill and talent.

Mentally i think they are pretty much the same
 
James said:
Amir easily to be honest.

There are bowlers who are good, and then there are bowlers who add a whole new dimension to a bowling attack and transform its mechanics and potential just by being in it.

Junaid is one of the former, Amir was one of the latter.

It is not unlike a comparison between James Anderson and Muhammad Asif. Both are good bowlers but there can still be an almost intangible difference in class - which Pakistani bowlers often display.
Click to expand...

I agree with you... The reason why Pakistani fans after 3 years have not forgotten them because of expectational talent they both had.
To me Asif was the best seam bowler Pakistan has ever produced and one of the all time best in cricket history (specially because of his seam wobbling skill).

Amir was a special talent in his own account, some how cricketers from my town "Rawalpindi" had a bad run in international cricket for one reason or other... Shoiab was the most fear some bowler produced by Pakistan, but PCB could not handled him, Amir was best teen talent for his generation, which PCB could not manage...
 
The difference between Amir and Junaid is that if there is any bowler today that can match Steyn's Quality that would have being Amir. Right now their is only one world class fast bowler (Styen) and that After Akram/Donald/Waqar. Amir was the only one at that level. Fast bowler with all the skills in the books is the most difficult thing in cricket, since it requires fitness, skill, power, endurance (everything a athlete should have), their is a reason every country and fan drools for bowler like Steyn!!!

BTW I am not talking about swing/seam bowlers for that Mgrath/Paulack/Asif/Vernon all were world class. Vernon is the only world class swing bowler today (one can add Anderson as well, but to me Anderson is still not that level)
 
Imagine both of them bowling in an attack completed by Asif and Ajmal, with Irfan, Gul, Wahab and Rehman as the back-up bowlers.
 
There is no guarantee that Amir would have performed as good as Junaid.

Lets look at Starc he can swing it both ways very late, he bowls at 145ks, has a good yorker and a very good bouncer and can reverse the ball.

Starc skill wise is as good if not better than Amir,
And look what happened to Starc when he toured Asia.

You can not rate a Bowler bowler by only looking at his performances in Good conditions for quick bowling.
 
Imagine both in our line up ! We will destroy every team even with the lulloo batsmen we got !! :murali

It would be like reliving the times of Waqar and Wasim destroying every line up . We never got to see much of Akhtar and Asif , I do hope we get to see these 2 together doing well for us .
 
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